# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: Phantasm on December 13, 2009, 03:07:26 AM

Title: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 13, 2009, 03:07:26 AM
Hey guys

Took a break but I realized I cant let some ppl with bad attitudes get me down.

So

We know that the fundamental frequency is a function of the diameter of the toroid.

We also know that the fundamental frequency for a toroid of diameter 15" is 35.705 Khz

The circumference of said toroid is therefore 47.12388981"

Can someone explain why this is the correct fundamental frequency for this sized toroid? What is the relationship between frequency and circumference?

EDIT: This info is taken from SM's letters - please correct me if I've misread him...
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on December 13, 2009, 10:58:28 AM
hi
how know the lenght of wire and turns forsome toroid or ather type of .. to calculated exactly l frek for that
MAYBE IF FIRST PULSE FOR SOME FREK HAS TO TRAVEL OF BEAGEANIG TO END OF WIRE  THAT IS THE EXSCKTLY CALCULATION FREK. WHIT LENGHT AND TURNS FOR THAT
BUT IF YOU TAKE MULTYPLY FREK . WHAT WHILL BE
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 14, 2009, 06:46:38 PM
Heya Macedonia

Yea, I was thinking something along those lines.

Could it be simply that the frequency is proportional to the size of the toroid in so far as its needed to achieve the SRF of the coil?

Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on December 14, 2009, 07:30:17 PM
@phants
i dont mean to find   sfr to get power
THAT WHILL PRODUCED HEAT YOU TRANSISTOR DRIVER
YOU KNOW THAT THE RF AMPLIFAER  AND ANETNA HOW IS CONECTED WHIT PROPERLY LENGHT OF THE ANTENA<OR  COIL.>
I HAVE MEAN TO GET EXSACKLY LENGH FOR COIL OR ANTENA  WHIT THAT FREK THEN IS GET MAX OUT FROM THAT AND MINIMUM LOSS ENERGY
BUT IF YOU HAVE IDEA HOW TO GET OE WAY MOVING FILD IN THAT ANTENA OR COIL SAY WHAT YOU MEA
IF YOU PULSE IN ONE DIRECTION I MEAN YOU WHIL HAVE SOME GOOD RESOLTS
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: szaxx on December 16, 2009, 04:41:51 AM
Hi Phantasm, macedonia and all,

The sizes of the units are related to freq and 3 known values are required for reasonable accuracy. Using the flux path size against the frequency or time period you will get the speed of the flux and this can be incorporated  into the design of your unit. The circumference and a few mathematical functions are required. the frequency of your unit can be calculated then the resonant drive coils can be constructed exactly as required. there are phase relations too for each coils driving circuit.
say what you can understand on building this unit and how far youve got with it, any experiments or testing on anything so far to see what help you require and lets get this thing in the bag.

3:33 AM and gotta get shut eye, up @ 7:00ish

see ya soon
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 17, 2009, 04:17:39 AM
I'm just sorting out a transistor issue and then I've got a full design to build a device that accounts for the following purported truths about SM's device

DC output
Working flux round the toroid
interaction of harmonic frequencies
Looks like SM's hand-held toroid (I dunno what you guys call this one)

My belief is that since SM's videos are on youtube - we're in the green zone with experimenting with these devices.

EDIT: Thats not to say I know my design works =p but we'll see I guess
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on December 17, 2009, 10:04:41 AM
high everyone good day!

here is what i know:
TPU operate in the received small kick frequency of the source, that small kick will be converted into a big kick, thats why sm said if we have thousands of small kicks then we have thousands of big kicks ok  8)
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on December 17, 2009, 04:03:56 PM
@szaxx
yes you  are raid
for say this

Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: t3t4 on December 17, 2009, 10:35:42 PM
Has anyone had a working TPU aside from SM? As I understand it, the principle is simple. This device in it's most basic form is just an electron accelerator, so an object in motion tends to stay in motion. Use the field current output to sustain the required input and that's perpetual motion infinitely. That's what I understand about this device, but has anyone achieved a self sustaining prototype?

I'm just wondering.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 18, 2009, 12:37:37 AM
Has anyone had a working TPU aside from SM? As I understand it, the principle is simple. This device in it's most basic form is just an electron accelerator, so an object in motion tends to stay in motion. Use the field current output to sustain the required input and that's perpetual motion infinitely. That's what I understand about this device, but has anyone achieved a self sustaining prototype?

I'm just wondering.

If they have, theyre being quiet

I think we need to also consider the interaction of the harmonic frequencies, but ya..

Also, I dont really look at this device as a perpetual motion machine. It has to be harnessing potential energy from somewhere though the source of that energy isnt entirely clear to me
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Vortex1 on December 18, 2009, 12:47:57 AM
Hi Phantasm

Quote
I'm just sorting out a transistor issue and then I've got a full design to build a device that accounts for the following purported truths about SM's device

DC output
Working flux round the toroid
interaction of harmonic frequencies
Looks like SM's hand-held toroid (I dunno what you guys call this one)

My main point of interest is how the DC output is achieved without rectification. If You have achieved even a pulsating DC or very noisy DC without the use of rectification, commutation as in a mechanical chopper, or selectively saturating a magnetic core, you are on the way to a new discovery......very interested.

SM's device had a lot of "hash" (his words)....high frequency fairly random noise riding on top of a DC level.

SM did not call it "pulsating DC" (what you would get if you rectified an AC waveform but did not filter it)

He also did not call it "ripple" (what you would get if you rectified and filtered an AC waveform but had a substantial load across the filter capacitor)

He was very specific in his use of the word "hash". Think about that!

Kind Regards....V
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: t3t4 on December 18, 2009, 01:18:25 AM
Quote
I think we need to also consider the interaction of the harmonic frequencies, but ya..

Yes, I understand and agree, but as I see it, this system comes down to one electron spanking another and another and so on. Once a certain speed is achieved, the output of the secondary should be such that it would sustain the input of the primary. I see this this system as a basic transformer with 3 pulsed primaries. All coils have at least two resonant frequencies, so, if you can find the 3rd, then you should have 3 spanking events, easy as 1,2,3. But yeah, I know it's not that easy to find the magic numbers. But is my understanding incorrect?

I have played a little with this system, but I keep it simple in terms of trial as well as explanation. I'm just speaking about what I have seen with my trials and what I understand from reading 100 pages or so on this site. I got results, but nothing I can run my home on. But I get results from bifilliar coils just stuck in the air, so I'm not doing anything special. But I was just wondering if someone else out there was doing something special.

I think this system has a ton of potential, so I hope that none give up on it. And, I believe that it works, at least in theory it does. It's just an electron spanker until it becomes an accelerator. Pretty cool stuff if you ask me, but should be simple as well.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: szaxx on December 18, 2009, 02:49:19 AM
Hi All,
Lets hope we have the first fully working one and now this is where I wake up.....
Not heard of a success yet, but yet is for now. The harmonics must play a role somewhere. As odd harmonics add up we get a square wave but at present the feed is a square wave (low duty cycle) so are we in the right starting direction?
The field 'required' has to rotate to provide power out and using phase shifting this can be achieved... nothing new here. The ether however has a viscosity and if this is similar to say water then spinning the living hell out of it from standstill may cause a cavitation effect. Now (HYPOTHETICALLY) if this effect is real and the edge of this created cavity is slowly catching up with the mag stirrer it will at some point collapse in on itself and this collapse will have some reaction... the water example shows the power this cavitation has. Ultrasonic cleaning for one . It may indeed be responsible for the Bang where we need a pacemaker, some more chips and a rewire..... After that initial catch up the generator does its work. The current facts seemingly suggest to apply the frequencies in a delayed order (spin up).
A rotating field can be generated very simply by 2 slightly out of tune oscillators feeding 2 radiators. In english get 2 magnetic loops spaced slightly apart. feed both from 2 separate MOPA's at unison with each other (frequency). Then tune one off frequency and the speed of the rotation will be the difference of Freq  shift. This effect is well known to ham guys as a steerable HF antenna (uses a phase shift only). For electric fields use a dipole or similar radiator. In the tpu the only things that are positioned for this effect are the torroids (unlikely) but the hidden windings may be. The reference to clean signals applies here too. The components half inch off the board doesn't. Utilising this system at high voltage I would probably use valves/tubes initially, as power mosfets dont like 0%THD linear mode operation that much.
The question is has this been tried yet?
A gentle spin up approach. The 2 freqs will automatically generate more harmonics whenever they hit nonlinear operation. Not sure on the control side if the oscillators were then put back into unison this requires a little more thought as the mag field would be directional but stationary. Somewhat elliptically offset mmmmmmm.....
Its an idea and I've not come across it here.
Im trying to reproduce DC from a bifilar coil (part of a test sequence from 1985 ish) but not remembering it all that well as it required precise phase positioning at null point...inherent time lag and ????????, thinking on those torroids and DC outputs.....

see you soon.
Steve
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 18, 2009, 08:52:40 AM
Ive seen a lot of you guys' projects are able to demonstrate the principal effect of operation of this device and its very encouraging for me!

I'm really excited to build this... Just for the learning experience anyway... but hey, might get lucky - we'll see

My approach thus far has been as conservative as possible. No radical ideas... my design is as close to SM's clues and videos as possible.

Ive tried to take into account all his hints

I already mentioned a few of them that my design takes into account... Honestly, I really want to share the design with you. I'm just worried that if I share my design before actually building it that you guys will shoot it down and i'll lose motivation again :\

I also could do without getting flamed for 'muddying the water' with yet another TPU build idea.

Some more tidbits for you though:
My design should make a compass 'go crazy'
It runs on 2 9v batteries
It will 'spin up' when first turned on
Should have a slight gyroscopic effect
Weighs about a lb and a half
SM said he found a "More stable way" to generate his frequencies - I believe I know of a way. (Thanks to GK for spanking his coils!)

There is no way that when i wind the coils and connect the circuitry that its going to work without tuning it. I have a few ideas in mind that I want to tune for - Thanks (most recently) to MACEDONIACD.

I saw a video on youtube that I can no longer find.. .something about experimenting with resonance effects. I need a simple way to determine the ideal resonance frequency for some coils. As MACEDONIACD pointed out, I will need to find the right resonance frequency that draws the least current. This youtube vid im talking about.. the guy uses a neon light? (if i remember correctly) That will light up when the coil is at resonance? and a light bulb that lights up if its drawing too much current. This sounds like a good place to start for me when im ready to test & tune

Can I get some tips in that regard?
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: havuhung on December 18, 2009, 10:22:46 AM
Hi All and
To @Phantasm
Quote
I saw a video on youtube that I can no longer find.. .something about experimenting with resonance effects. I need a simple way to determine the ideal resonance frequency for some coils.
I'm see link : Youtube MIT Physics Demo -- Resonant RLC Circuit

Hope to meet what you need.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 18, 2009, 11:09:12 AM
Hi everyone <3

So, I started reading this board about 2 years ago or so and became fascinated with the TPU. About a year ago I started posting and asked about how to build it and was told to read SM's guides... again... Frankly I found the advice cold but it really did allow me to learn a hell of a lot.

After I assimilated as much of the info I could with my limited knowledge, I started trying to collaborate with some ppl here since I had some very basic questions... but it seems that its hard for a newcomer to start building with you guys :\ I was finally invited to contribute my ideas with a team of people who were building but.. what you guys were building looked nothing like my ideas nor SM's TPU so I kinda took a couple steps back.. not sure what to conclude (i had no idea what you guys were doing and it didnt look like SM's device)

I know I just finished posting that I'm worried i'll get flamed and shot down if I present my ideas... but something didnt sit right with me and browsing some forums since then gave me the reason why:

So, in short, you have to wait a little bit until its finished. But maybe another member of this forum understands finally what is going on in a TPU and will post it.

Otto

I weighed my options and I think the best thing I can do is collaborate and just hope... HOPE that you guys can point me in the right direction instead of just telling me im headed for the cliff and I have no idea where I'm going. At least I'm up and walking =p

I have nothing but positive energy about this project, I want to collaborate, I want to design, I want to learn, I want to build. I'm not a patent thief, I'm not an agent of disinformation (knowingly=p) and I'm not a forum troll. So please, if you disagree with my idea and you have knowledge and experience that shows ive gone wrong, please let me know. The last thing I want to do is run around with old ideas that have been tested and arnt correct.

We can accelerate our research if we work together more - Collaboration is what we need. So here's what I've got:

-----
I was approached by email by someone with a good rationale as to why I shouldnt post full design ideas here..

It wasnt a cease and desist request from TPTB =p It was just some guy with a good point of view

So, in that regard, I'm happy to share my design with anyone interested... but please PM me and I'll send you what I've got

Sorry :\

<SNIP>

-----

You guys told me to go and figure it out before... this is what I came up with, exclusively from the information in SM's notes... All Im asking at this point is a little critical feedback

Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Spider on December 18, 2009, 01:12:48 PM
Hi All,

Concerning the DC output I posted this a long time ago:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2250.msg101268#msg101268

For me it is still the most plausable explanation for a DC output with hash in a tpu.
Didnt SM say that you can produce voltage if you move a magnet over 1000's of wires at high speed. Brings the homopolar concept in I think.

Just my 2 cents...

Spider
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: sparks on December 18, 2009, 01:59:12 PM
Tesla's magnifying transmitter produced waves within a conductor.  He tuned his oscillator to produce standing waves within the conductor.  The waves would radiate out get so far and then be reflected.  Nodes and antinodes can of course be set up within the standing wave field depending on the fundamental resonance of the conductor compared to the frequency imposed.  He also described imposing on this same wave field a second steering frequency that would cause the nodes and antinodes to move.  This second frequency would accelerate the nodes and antinodes to what he had the balls to report as superluminal progression. To confuse things even more I believe that the waves produced were a combination of mechanical vibrations or longitudinal waves and change of charge state of the "moving" speaker.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: szaxx on December 19, 2009, 03:42:08 AM
Hi All,
@spider   the aether vortex tpu thread     give it a read   you have that basically in the referenced above post. The faraday machine requires a fixed point of power extraction else it doesn't work. Im aware the  mag field is stationary so the conductor has to be moving relative to it.
This SM tpu is the other way around. The vortex tpu reportedly worked by a vortex generated by a rapidly switching high voltage KVDC on circular plates but took a while to start if at all. no spin up? maybe a pulse speed ramping blocking osc would solve this???
The rotation by previous post suggested method, maybe 2 longitudinal pulse gens, same Freq varying offset, would generate 'hose squeezing' as is depicted by compressive interaction rather than transversely mentioned method.  Tesla certainly knew the strange effects of differing pulse widths and freq, heating/cooling    non camera friendly lighting?    wow what other properties does this form of energy have to offer. Fact is that the charge presented on metallic objects is an effect that may hold a little secret. has the say NMR effect been investigated or have we not hit the required fact of operating with gain within this unit?
For fun,  have a look on google video for (47mins)

Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves

The quality; well...                 the info; interesting...
Adaptation of the idea into the tpu...heat, power and it can't be that simple, can it? need a feedback control system or bang.  saturable reactors? seems to fit, but too simplistic or someone would have done it before, wouldn't they...
cheers for now

Steve.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: wattsup on December 19, 2009, 05:29:56 PM
@Phantasm

Thanks for your PM. It would be too long to answer every detail. But I will answer you here.

I just started reading this thread yesterday. Good discussion. Look everything you say is possible but has to be shown. Either in side small effect tests or other.

My opinion, Quad is pure Tesla. But that is not a bad thing because quad designs have worked and worked for over 100 years. The basic idea of switching from one quad to the other is also OK. The problem here is that in the TPU of SM, there is not enough electronics to provide such a control pattern, unless the circuit design was so simple and relied on only one seed pulse source.

SM I think is Duo, not quad. Actually Duo+Duo makes Quad but over two rings so it is Double Duo.
The FTPU shows no quad wind. Either single one wind or two half winds per level.
The OTPU although showing four coils is in my estimate 2 x 2 and the annular disk is aluminum with a slit in it since there is no other way he could have had a coupling effect. That top annular disk is just there for show and to help get a gyration with his magnets added.

About the Gyro effect, my sincere advice, forget about it at 75k. Anything above 800 hertz and you will never feel it so no gyro possible. If matter could gyrate, in the sense that you could actually feel the gyration with the device in your hands, at 75k, it would probably self destruct. There is a limit for non-moving devices to convey movement. That is not to say that an electric motor turning at 75k rpm will not make a gyration, but that is physical movement of matter that is well secured on solid ground versus non-physical movement in the case of a TPU in your hands. So building something to get a gyration in my view is not the right logic. Make the device for its functional merit, if it works and does not gyrate, who cares. lol

Now the danger of guys giving you advise is that we are always hesitant that should we open our mouths and potentially steer you away form an effort that could have been fruitful, then this is a bad thing. So the ultimate decision on how and what to build is yours and yours alone. I would say, try and visualize the device in operation before you build it. Vision the function and where there could be snags and see if you can mentally work them out. If you can't, then chances are the build is not right and doing it in your mind first helps save time and effort. If the vision function seems all right, then hit the work bench.

When I have some results that I am looking for, I post them on the forum. If it is easily replicable, don't worry, some will try it out but at least they will have a base to go by.

No one guy can come here and blurt out a theory of operation and expect to be right the first time around. There are just too many variables to put together and it is only with small side tests that one can start to get a feel for what this is and how it can work out given the information on hand. You just have to be willing to accept that changing your mind on function is a normal part of the complete process of discovery. There is no harm in being wrong and there is no dishonor in changing your mind just as there is no dishonor is sticking with your idea and trying it all the way.

My personal measuring board is simple. Get a theory, vision the operation and see how it physically fits a known SM TPU. If it fits, then you have to try it, but if it does not, then chances are you are wasting your time. But this is not an absolute truth and therein lies all the difficulties of knowing which is which.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Phantasm on December 19, 2009, 08:31:41 PM
I think when SM said "slight gyroscopic effect" That what he meant was that the device resists motion in the same way that a spinning bike tire does...

Is that different than vibration?
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: szaxx on December 19, 2009, 11:30:49 PM
@ Phantasm
If you build on teflon PCB the stability of your tuned circuits will be massive compared to nearly all other types of board. Build your unit exactly as you originally intended.  No one can flame you if they dont have a functional unit. any attempt at this is pathetic.
I saw a video a while ago re gyros where a guy spun up a 150lb unit then lifted it up easilly! no vibrations I suspect.
cheers Steve.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: wattsup on December 20, 2009, 12:39:50 AM
@Phantasm

Just take a coil, pulse it any way you want and hold a magnet next to it. Then see how high you can go on the frequency until you no longer feel anything. There is the limit, about 800 hertz, give or take a few.

That's how he got his gyro effect. That's the only way you can. You will never feel electrons creating a gyro effect on their own. Why, because to cause a gyro effect you need a surplus of energy on one side of your loop, but in flow electrons this s impossible on their own. The electron flow is the same everywhere on the loop. It's the pulse that does it.

So that gyro story is just a distraction. There is a vibration caused by the magnet against the toroid coil. And that vibration can be described as a gyro effect but it's all because he put a magnet near the toroid.

Trying to understand the gyro effect cost us months and months of lost and wasted time. So for SM, I guess just saying gyro really paid off in distracting many.

Now please understand this is my opinion and not written in stone. You have the final say and I am not trying to flame you or anything like that. Don't be afraid to do what you think is right. That is the most important thing.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: Mannix on December 20, 2009, 05:10:00 AM
Re gyro effect.
I have posted this before some time back

I know 2 people who have held the small units and pushed the big one on the table ..its a gyro like effect for sure ..it does resist movement.

It did vibrate at low frequency that can be felt and sings at 5-6khz

a small inductor like otto has done, does sing at 5-6 k wit 245k drive.

I have benn  unable to get the low frequency popping that he observed...yet.

wire lenghts must be critical .

Steven hates alluminium because "it creates leaks every where" ...a clue ? I dont know....yet

One guy was not technical and said that it was not unlike a running hard drive (which i let him hold)but not exactly the same as the resistance was in all directions like it wanted to stay where it was. like it had traction to the space around it but very slight.

When put on a hard surface it is more aparrent because it restricts movement in one direction.
Thats why the big coil is on a smooth surface

Difficult as it is, it is not a lie but is very "distracting" thats for sure

Creating this effect wether energy is produced or not is still important but may only be a by product of a successful working unit.

Coils jumping , Im told is a good start.

The videos of the first units were never designed to be posted in public, in fact the internet was not even very popular back then as it is now.

Care must be taken not to discount the videos regardless of how frustrating this can be.

The more people that follow their own  path towards this difficult goal the better.
I hope this will be easy for everybody one day.

Good hunting.

Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: wattsup on December 20, 2009, 05:03:01 PM
@Mannix

I could write an extremely pertinent rebuttal but in the interests of this overall endeavor, I will abstain from any further mention of gyro. Just let guys do what they want and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: TPU operation
Post by: otto on December 21, 2009, 10:05:38 AM
Hello all,