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Author Topic: N-machine theory tested  (Read 13938 times)

Offline Paul-R

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2009, 05:28:52 PM »
I have played with homopolars, they really are cool and mystifying. No back emf at all, But their greatest downfall is the contacts with rim of the disc...
Hw about the rim rotating through a shallow trough of mercury.

Or: have two homopolar discs meshing like gears, and take the current
from the two shafts.

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2009, 05:28:52 PM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2009, 05:32:04 PM »
My 1st experiment was conclusive, but the 2nd one was not since it's more difficult to perform. maybe someone else could do it with bearings & on an axis.

Try to get a magnet to move with only one lead connected to a coil, because it's the same thing as only having one lead connected to the conductive coating on the magnet.  The results are the same.  No current flowing through the conductive coating or the coil, then no movement of the magnet.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2009, 05:36:22 PM »
Hw about the rim rotating through a shallow trough of mercury.

Or: have two homopolar discs meshing like gears, and take the current
from the two shafts.

There is no need in having brushes at the rim or to have meshing gears with the correct setup.  This allows you to extract the current with a slip ring at the axis on both sides of the magnet.  Again, I must stress, with the correct setup.  The correct setup also increases the voltage.  In fact, it may be possible to have a brushless system, but it hasn't been tested or confirmed yet.

GB
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 06:11:21 PM by gravityblock »

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2009, 05:36:22 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2009, 06:04:46 PM »
Has anyone ever got an n-machine to self-run?

Offline gravityblock

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2009, 06:18:01 PM »
Has anyone ever got an n-machine to self-run?

In figure 2 of the below link, it should self-run, but it has a design flaw by not allowing the outside circuit to pass the horseshoe "C" magnet.  This is based on "M" hypothesis and not "N" hypothesis.

http://www.andrijar.com/dcmachines/index.html

Here's more details about the final test, http://www.andrijar.com/fte/index.html

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2009, 06:18:01 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2009, 07:03:25 PM »
I did another experiment, same as experiment #2, this time using a spherical magnet, about 1" diameter, that's polarized in a similar fashion as the Earth. This provides low friction since it's sitting on a point. Also a lot more current was pumped into the external circuit. So again, this experiment is to test if the electrical current can cause the magnetic material itself to rotate. Again, the electrical current does not flow through the magnet in this experiment. The electrical current  flows through metal that is not bonded to or touching the magnet. In this experiment the *entire* magnet wanted to move in a single direction, which is the same results as my experiment #2 using the disc NdFeB magnet. I saw no rotation.

Again it's difficult to say for experiment #2, since it's not fixed on an axis.
 

Offline gravityblock

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2009, 07:32:49 PM »
PaulLowrance,

Please keep us informed of your experiments.  Experimentation can always lead to unexpected results that could be beneficial.

Thanks for sharing,

GB

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2009, 07:32:49 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2009, 07:43:34 PM »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2009, 07:56:53 PM »
Those pages are not mine.  There is a lot of informative information contained within those pages.  What do you think about them?

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2009, 07:56:53 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2009, 07:59:02 PM »
Those pages are not mine.  There is a lot of informative information contained within those pages.  What do you think about them?

They seem interesting, but haven't studied them that much yet.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2009, 07:59:59 PM »
Here's an old experiment that I've wanted to do for ages. If it's already done, then please let me know. Experiment: Place a very long straight wire starting from the outer edge of disc magnet and going outward several feet or more. The wire never touches the magnet. At ~ 1/2 to 1 foot away from the magnet, cut the wire in two, and connect both wires to an electrometer. Then spin the magnet. I want to know if the electrometer shows a DC voltage. If there is, then there's an E-field.

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2009, 07:59:59 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2009, 08:27:22 PM »
From what I've read, there is a static electric field when current isn't being taken off the disc/magnet when they're rotating together.  If you were rotating with this disc/magnet, you're meter would read a voltage potential.....but this voltage isn't able to be brought out of the system due to no return path.

The external circuit provides the return path, but if it is also rotating with the disc/magnet, then it will have the same polarity as the disc, thus current can't flow.  The external circuit when rotating with the disc is just part of the disc and will have an electric field pointing in the same direction as the disc.

Relative motion between the disc and external circuit creates a return path for current to flow due to the EMF on the external circuit is pointing in the opposite direction as the disc.  Increasing the relative motion will increase the voltage.

Relative motion between the disc and outside circuit isn't required to have current to flow.  There are other ways, at least in theory.

Offline Craigy

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2009, 08:36:19 PM »
Does the below illustration show what you did? If so are you 100% positive the whole circuit if allows to rotate on a free axle rotates? This alone is something substational, I recommend you redo the experiment attaching the circuit to an axle so it can rotate.

Ok can try that tomorrow , i have some 21 mm x 16.3 x 6 n 35 rings, that i can cap with steel washers to increase the pole face  over the whole of the 21 mm dia, then  true it all on a shaft on the lathe and mount it on some nasa bearings, although it will need a little current limiting. I can't see it working  but cannot harm to try

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2009, 11:23:12 PM »
I tried this, as pictured, and it does not spin on the wire axis.

Can someone tell me why it doesn't even budge?...  perhaps I'm going about the oppositional field in the wrong way?

On second thought, this might work if I were to place two magnets N to N?

Or..more testing due I suppose.

I'm just looking for a variant setup to further the demonstration.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 12:51:21 AM by jadaro2600 »

Offline broli

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Re: N-machine theory tested
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2009, 11:24:44 PM »
Could you post a bigger picture, all I see is a twisted wire and what seems to be a screw in the middle.

 

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