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Author Topic: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power  (Read 187719 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #345 on: September 27, 2014, 06:18:19 PM »

Quote from Gotoluc:


"The 8 inch Super build single coil one stand gave a result of 2Kg Pull for 0.43 Watts, and now the 8 inch Super build single coil 2 series stands gave a result of 2.5Kg Pull for 0.43 Watts"!


Luc's test results prove conclusively that the value of Tesla's "Coil for Electromagnets" is genuine and not imaginary as falsely claimed by some. 



Not really Synchro,

all this proves is if you double the amount of turns you get 25% more pull force.
It may not even prove that as if I would of wound the coil with one wire the magnetic field would be more concentrated since the coil would half the size and weight.

The reason I wound the coils bifilar was not to prove this kind of thing. It's to give me some flexibility and more test options.

You'll see as more tests come

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #346 on: September 27, 2014, 06:25:34 PM »
Here is a Solenoid with a magnet built into it for better holding force
See chart as it has a better score but nothing close yet
Hopefully you're all getting the point and the advantage the Triple M has. If not, please post your questions or concerns.

http://www.solenoids-mfg.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=100

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #347 on: September 27, 2014, 07:31:39 PM »
I'll post some questions and concerns to the collective group.

For starters, the classic error is being made by discussing "efficiency" without defining what it is.   Take the example of pulse motors.  You read comments all the time that say, "Wow, your pulse motor is really efficient."  When you are watching a pulse motor spinning in a YouTube clip and you don't define your parameters for "efficiency" that is a totally meaningless statement.  So if you are going to discuss "efficiency" then you have to define what it means and then show measurements to demonstrate the efficiency.

The major problem is with the variables that you are tracking as you do these experiments because in the strictest terms they don't actually make sense.  This is a place to discuss energy and related matters and you live and die by the data that you generate.  So this should be resolved before you go further.  Right now as it stands the data generated would have to be reverse-engineered to turn it into proper data.  This is research and you should be presenting proper data on paper (like in this thread and not on a YouTube clip) that has true meaning.  If you were missing the information that you would need to reverse-engineer the data as being presented right now, then the data would be meaningless.

So the choice for the group is to ignore these comments and sleepwalk through the rest of the experiments, or discuss the issues and brainstorm and figure it out for yourselves and then take the proper corrective measures so as you go forward you generate valid data.

Spoon-feeding you all the answers is not the route I will take for this one.  I suggest that you discuss these issues in this thread amongst yourselves and resolve them.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #347 on: September 27, 2014, 07:31:39 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #348 on: September 27, 2014, 08:13:23 PM »
I'll post some questions and concerns to the collective group.

For starters, the classic error is being made by discussing "efficiency" without defining what it is.   Take the example of pulse motors.  You read comments all the time that say, "Wow, your pulse motor is really efficient."  When you are watching a pulse motor spinning in a YouTube clip and you don't define your parameters for "efficiency" that is a totally meaningless statement.  So if you are going to discuss "efficiency" then you have to define what it means and then show measurements to demonstrate the efficiency.

The major problem is with the variables that you are tracking as you do these experiments because in the strictest terms they don't actually make sense.  This is a place to discuss energy and related matters and you live and die by the data that you generate.  So this should be resolved before you go further.  Right now as it stands the data generated would have to be reverse-engineered to turn it into proper data.  This is research and you should be presenting proper data on paper (like in this thread and not on a YouTube clip) that has true meaning.  If you were missing the information that you would need to reverse-engineer the data as being presented right now, then the data would be meaningless.

So the choice for the group is to ignore these comments and sleepwalk through the rest of the experiments, or discuss the issues and brainstorm and figure it out for yourselves and then take the proper corrective measures so as you go forward you generate valid data.

Spoon-feeding you all the answers is not the route I will take for this one.  I suggest that you discuss these issues in this thread amongst yourselves and resolve them.




That's nothing but a STEAMING HOT CROCK OF UNADULTERATED HORSE SHIT!

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #349 on: September 27, 2014, 10:07:44 PM »

That's nothing but a STEAMING HOT CROCK OF UNADULTERATED HORSE SHIT!

Synchro1, if you are interested in this thread and the experiments then put your brain in gear and say something productive instead of acting like a 49-year-old idiot that has bipolar bifilar coil fantasies.  If you don't have something productive to say then STFU.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #349 on: September 27, 2014, 10:07:44 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #350 on: September 28, 2014, 01:18:25 AM »
Was working on some things with Zeropoint132 some time ago, and from that, he produced this video. ;D It should relate to what is being discussed here recently. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbFqVh7GdGk

Mags

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #351 on: September 28, 2014, 02:42:20 AM »
Hi Mags,

do you know how the coil is wound?

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #351 on: September 28, 2014, 02:42:20 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #352 on: September 28, 2014, 03:37:20 AM »
Hi Mags,

do you know how the coil is wound?

Luc

Hey Luc

Quadfilar, if that is the correct term. 4 individual wires wound at the same time.

tested 1 wire first, 2 in series second, 3, then 4 in series. Each time he added a coil in series, there was more mechanical output, while decreasing input. ;)

YT doesnt have pm anymore. Wish I could go through those msgs to recall our conversations on that.


Mags

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #353 on: September 28, 2014, 06:10:21 AM »
Hi Mags,

okay I see

The problem with Zeropoint132 test is similar to what I was trying to tell synchro some posts back.
If you wind a coil with many wires together, 4 in this case, the coil ends up being 4 times the size. So now if you energized only one wire all the other stands cause 3 times more space between the energized wire turns and weaken its magnetic field since the turns are not concentrated and as close together as possible.
I'm quite sure if you took the same length of wire and wound it alone in a nice Brooks coil the magnetic field would be stronger then it being spread out like that.
So to me his test is not valid unless he had made a single coil to disprove this possible problem. Better yet, he should of had 4 individual single filar coils and place them one after the other to prove there's a benefit.

Come to think of it, my first Super build test 1 uses one of two strand is possibly suffering of the same problem ::) ... I'll need to recheck that!

Hope you understand?
Let me know if this makes sense

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #353 on: September 28, 2014, 06:10:21 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #354 on: September 28, 2014, 07:15:43 AM »
Hi Mags,

okay I see

The problem with Zeropoint132 test is similar to what I was trying to tell synchro some posts back.
If you wind a coil with many wires together, 4 in this case, the coil ends up being 4 times the size. So now if you energized only one wire all the other stands cause 3 times more space between the energized wire turns and weaken its magnetic field since the turns are not concentrated and as close together as possible.
I'm quite sure if you took the same length of wire and wound it alone in a nice Brooks coil the magnetic field would be stronger then it being spread out like that.
So to me his test is not valid unless he had made a single coil to disprove this possible problem. Better yet, he should of had 4 individual single filar coils and place them one after the other to prove there's a benefit.

Come to think of it, my first Super build test 1 uses one of two strand is possibly suffering of the same problem ::) ... I'll need to recheck that!

Hope you understand?
Let me know if this makes sense

Luc

Yep, I know exactly what you mean.  He and I had some conflict there back then. But there were other aspects that I could not deny that were discussed in pm and I cannot read them any longer.

But the tests I proposed were to make a single wire coil of the same volume, and also a single wire coil with wire the length of 1 of 4 strands of the quadfi.  The latter would compare to powering a single wire of the quad. I was into some other experiments at the time and didnt replicate. So these things need to be tested.

Either way, it does relate here as someone who had performed tests as being done here and I thought you guys might like to see.  ;)

Mags

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #355 on: September 28, 2014, 07:22:25 AM »
Hi folks, Hi gotoluc, thanks for sharing your latest work, updates here, looks promising.
Also, look forward to seeing you floating around in your house boat, hehe.

So, 5 times greater force with the first coil compared to smaller model at same input.
Well, i have to say the name, Joseph Newman.
Though i feel Newmans motors are using multiple principles to achieve high efficiency in operation.
One of the main principles, is lots of copper atoms.
Though his in operation, delay line effect helps.
I wonder the weight of your first models coil compared to this super model, might be a ratio correlation.
One thing is a given, this design motor you have here luc, will outperform even the motors that are using both sides of a coil directly.
I forget the guys name who built that motor, but he gets double the shaft work compared to standard motor.
In my view, if we can get the same mileage at same average speed on an electric bicycle, car, etc. for half or even less input power, that actually means we can get 2-4 times the mileage at same average speed as the typical electric bicycle or car gets today on lead acid batts.
So say an econo electric bike gets 15-20 miles, we now get 30-40 or more for same charge.
You know folks, even Garry Stanleys dual magnet rotor, air core motor gave double the performance of standard electric bike motor based on his real road tests.
peace love light

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #355 on: September 28, 2014, 07:22:25 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #356 on: September 28, 2014, 07:27:23 AM »
It would be interesting to see if there is more initial pull with a bifi. I didnt understand the influence of the capacitance of a bifi back then as I do now.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #357 on: September 28, 2014, 07:47:59 AM »
Something that just came to mind. Thane wound his coils in a random fashion from what I was told. This would put a lot of empty space in the windings. So would he have been better off winding straight and tight? How much better? Better output than Z shows with increased resistance of adding all the existing 4 wires in series?  There may be more to this, considering the level of output change.  ;D

Mags

Offline DaKrampus

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #358 on: September 28, 2014, 08:59:55 AM »
here is my 2 cents...just thinking out loud.. what if you think of the coil as a multilayerd coil, perfctly wound.. i might be wrong but i would think the output  would go up the closer it gets to a brooks coil shape and then down again.. or is my thinking totally wrong?
Luciano

Offline synchro1

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #359 on: September 28, 2014, 02:23:11 PM »

The relationship is very simple; Let's compare a coil of one loop to a coil of two loops and apply Ampere's and Ohm's laws. Given an equal amount of power, the magnetic strength doubles in the two loop coil along with the Ohmic resistance. Current is inversely proportional to Ohmic resistance: Therefore, we double the magnetic strength with the addition of the second loop, coupled with lower current draw! The addition of the second loop also adds a volt to the equation which lowers resistance and increases current, so the proportion is not linear but a factor of PI. That's why it takes four times the coil wraps to double the magnet throw for less current draw in Zeropoint123's video. So it's two steps forward and a partial step back.


Take this to it's logical extreme, and you can understand how Newman spins a 1/2 ton flywheel on voltage alone, with no current draw whatsoever! Newman's power coil is of gargantuan scale consisting of thin wire of many many turns to maximize this power ratio. His carnival motor has been COP>1 the entire time! Newman's COP is actually impossible to calculate bordering on infinity. Newman's oversized motor works identically to his miniature with a commutator like Lidmotor demonstrates. Nothing could be simpler! Lastly, just because Newman understands it doesn't mean he can explain it.

 

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