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Author Topic: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power  (Read 184952 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #315 on: September 25, 2014, 05:33:37 PM »
Thanks for your post Ron

How about a new test. Find 2 separate cores and inset one in the center of your coil and one on the outside of the coil and probe to see how the core fields compare to the coil fields.
The core may need to be higher then the coil so it's away enough that your probe won't picking up coil fields.

Thanks for your help

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline i_ron

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #316 on: September 25, 2014, 07:26:32 PM »
Thanks for your post Ron

How about a new test. Find 2 separate cores and inset one in the center of your coil and one on the outside of the coil and probe to see how the core fields compare to the coil fields.
The core may need to be higher then the coil so it's away enough that your probe won't picking up coil fields.

Thanks for your help

Luc


You are welcome.


As before a positive reading is North (no minus sign) and a minus reading is South.


Two setups, not elegant, just stuff I had laying about.


As before both, inner top face of coils N. On the E core I would have to change my drawing. as the probe shows south on the inner face of the coil from top to bottom and north outside top to bottom.


Ron


Edit: sorry, the E cores I was referring to are in a different forum!  I was thinking of dmmpower's  list


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjnALkkUlNY


Page 1 fig B
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« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 09:49:28 PM by i_ron »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #317 on: September 26, 2014, 12:35:27 AM »
I gave up trying to teach basics to people on the forums a long time ago because it is so frustrating.  The two of you are being willfully ignorant.  You are talking to each other like you are making sense, but my feeling is that in the back of your minds both of you know that you are not making sense.  All of your problems would disappear if you both just stopped for a week and read a book or went online and educated yourselves about magnetism.  It's like the two of you are afraid to disagree with each other so you engage in a fake "dance" with each other instead.

Luc, experiments do not trump words if the experiments are interpreted incorrectly.  The people giving you advice, like myself and Poynt, did the experiments a long time ago.  We know how to apply our knowledge and you should respect that.  You end up posing questions that you should have known the answers to years ago considering how long you have been at this.  It's like you are stuck.  Once you even wanted to change all of the physics books.

You can see how your attitude is holding you back.  Both of you have ignored Poynt's comments and my comments.  It's a no-win situation for both of you unless you change your outlook.

For the two attached pictures, there is no Bloch wall between the cylindrical magnet and the attached cylindrical piece of iron.  I am telling you this with metaphysical certitude and if you disagree with me then you are crippling yourselves with willful ignorance.  One week of self-study would resolve this and both of you could come back and say, "I get it now."

The other attached picture is presumably a cutaway of Luc's transformer and the current is the same direction in every conductor.  You will get a very weak magnetic field in the center of the cross-section.  As you move towards the outer perimeter the magnetic field will get stronger and stronger.  Once you are past the perimeter the magnetic field will start to decrease in strength.  The magnetic field will look approximately like the magnetic field around a single straight current-carrying wire.  No Bloch walls anywhere.

This is my last posting because like I said I have given up on this business of trying to educate people.  You get ignored just like you guys are doing right now.  So you can ignore this and keep on faking it or get down to brass tacks and finally understand this by starting with the basics with a book or on a web site.  It all up to you guys and how you choose to use your time.

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #317 on: September 26, 2014, 12:35:27 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #318 on: September 26, 2014, 03:19:32 AM »
Thanks for the new core tests Ron

Your tests are confirming the field on the ends of the cores but I was hoping you would also place your probe on the core sides (like you did with the coils) to see if the cores mimic what you found in the coils.

If you did the tests and you got nothing please let me know as that would be interesting.

Thanks again for your time

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #319 on: September 26, 2014, 07:28:03 AM »
Thanks Ron for the extra tests and Bloch wall Images.

So, what's your take on why an energized coil has all those pole domains compared to a magnetized bar or a permanent magnet?

You may be interested in viewing this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1R44WjyppQ

Thanks for your time

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #319 on: September 26, 2014, 07:28:03 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #320 on: September 26, 2014, 02:16:08 PM »
I am only responding because of this:

Quote
I wonder if this denial of the Bloch wall is a NWO dumb down tactic?

You play the MIB card on me because I encourage you to go and educate yourself so your experimentation can be more productive and rewarding?  It's incredible that you would state that.

Well I am not MIB and I resent that ridiculous accusation.  I would not be surprised if that ridiculous diagram from 1936 was made by con artists back then.  They were looking for gullible people to take advantage of.  If somebody would believe that diagram then chances are you could sucker them into parting with their money.  The QEG is a current example of the same story.  There is a sucker born every minute.

Nobody is disputing the existence of Bloch walls.  The dispute is about talking about fake nonsensical allegations of the existence of Bloch walls.  One week of self-education would solve that problem but apparently there is no interest.  Hence I gave up on trying to educate people on the forums.

The ridiculous MIB allegation has been rebutted so I am out.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #321 on: September 26, 2014, 02:57:59 PM »
The Bloch Wall is not missing here, it's simply tunneled through the inside. "Metaphysical certitude" is just some kind of meaningless rubbish.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #321 on: September 26, 2014, 02:57:59 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #322 on: September 26, 2014, 04:34:53 PM »
Thanks Ron for the extra tests and Bloch wall Images.

So, what's your take on why an energized coil has all those pole domains compared to a magnetized bar or a permanent magnet?

You may be interested in viewing this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1R44WjyppQ

Thanks for your time

Luc


Again, you are welcome.


My take? just if we want to know how things work this is a valid experiment. Please see my reply to synchro.


I had seen a bit of that video but didn't find it to definitive.


Ron

Offline i_ron

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #323 on: September 26, 2014, 04:52:57 PM »


Deleted


 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 08:58:02 PM by i_ron »

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #323 on: September 26, 2014, 04:52:57 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #324 on: September 26, 2014, 04:57:49 PM »


Nobody is disputing the existence of Bloch walls.  The dispute is about talking about fake nonsensical allegations of the existence of Bloch walls. 


Good to see you are still with us Mile High, let's not get hung up on Block walls... how do you see the  multiple poles ? can you prove or disprove my findings?


Ron

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #325 on: September 26, 2014, 04:59:17 PM »

Again, you are welcome.


My take? just if we want to know how things work this is a valid experiment. Please see my reply to synchro.


I had seen a bit of that video but didn't find it to definitive.


Ron

Simple enough of an answer ;D

Yes, the video doesn't prove anything, what I found interesting is the mix of poles.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #325 on: September 26, 2014, 04:59:17 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #326 on: September 26, 2014, 05:31:49 PM »

So, what's your take on why an energized coil has all those pole domains compared to a magnetized bar or a permanent magnet?

Luc


Luc and all, my apologies to the group for the misinformed information I have posted. Unfortunately I can't delete it as the 'modify' button has expired. Please just disregard my previous posts.


Many thanks to Mile High for the clear and precise explanation of what I was seeing.


Ron
 

« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 08:40:34 PM by i_ron »

Offline tinman

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #327 on: September 26, 2014, 05:35:48 PM »
Ron
The picture you posted (below) is incorrect in saying the point of zero magnetism. The center of a PM is where the strongest concentration of magnetic fields exist-this is the strongest part of magnetism within the magnet,not the weakest.

I can also back up my claim with a simple test for all that think otherwise. Take two magnets of the same type and shape-lets say two rod magnet-->3/4 in diameter x 1 inch long. Now join the together(north to south) so as they become one complete magnet that is now 3/4 in diameter x 2 inches long(any size will work of course). Now you have one big magnet,and the center will be this bloch wall you speak of(point of weakest magnetism-so the picture says). OK,so now pull them apart,and see just how weak that point of no magnetism is. You will see from this simple experiment that your picture is completely wrong.

The other error you have made(looking at your diagrams a few post back) is assuming that there is a bloch wall in an air core coil.Bloch walls are only formed within the core material of an electro or permanent magnet.They do not exist in an air core coil/electromagnets. What you are calling the bloch wall is only the transition point of fields-the strongets point of the magnetic field.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #328 on: September 26, 2014, 06:52:00 PM »
Ron:

I annotated your drawing and attached it here.  In position 1 the magnetic field comes in at the "top" of the hall sensor (where the black band is).   So in your interpretation you are calling that "South" because your sensor is telling you flux is coming in the top and going out the bottom of the sensor.  You say that flux going in an "up to down" direction is "South" so you label that part of the coil "South."

Likewise in position 2 you see flux entering by the "bottom" of the hall sensor so you call that "North."

The reality is what you see in the annotated sketch.  There is NO "North" or "South," there is just the convention that we have adopted that says "flux direction coming towards you" is "North" and "flux direction going away from you" is "South" when you position yourself above or below the core in your sketch and you look towards the core.

I don't know if you can understand that but your drawing of the cross section of the coil core with the polarities at each corner of the cross section is completely wrong.  The reality is the orange lines of flux with the directional arrows as I have drawn them out.  There is NO true "North" or "South" there is just flux direction as per the convention that we have defined.  All that "North" and "South" really mean on a bar magnet is that flux is "exiting" from the "North" end of the magnet and "entering" at the "South" end of the magnet.  It's a  just a naming convention.  In reality the flux lines are closed loops with no "start" or "end" or "North" or "South."

The only thing the hall sensor is showing you is the amount of flux and the direction of the flux.  It's up to you to make sense of that information and right now you clearly are not making sense of it and you are drawing conclusions and making statements that are wrong.

A stack of cylindrical magnets will line itself up with the field created by the coil.  You are stating "how can the North of the stack of magnets be attracted to the "North" part of the coil?"  The answer is that there IS NO "NORTH" PART OF THE COIL.  Repeat, the cylindrical magnets simply line themselves up with the field created by the coil.

This madness, this endless spinning and grinding and arguing and getting nowhere, could be remedied if you locked yourself away in a room for one week with a determination to understand magnetic fields and to understand how magnetic fields interact with ferromagnetic materials.   Then you will be able to look at a relatively simple setup and nearly instantly be able to visualize and understand what is going on.

Offline hanon

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #329 on: September 26, 2014, 08:27:27 PM »
Hi,

I have found another device based on magnetic repulsion. It is called Gap Power.

The device consists of two lateral groups of permanent magnets and one intermediate permanent magnet in repulsion mode. It has two lateral coils with are fed with pulses in order to act as "magnetic switch" of the lateral permanent magnets field. The idea is to block the magnetic field of each group of lateral magnets: while one group is pushing the other is blocked. Then the action is reversed and the intermediate magnets is swung back and forth. The author states that it is an overunity motor. He calls the effect as Magnetic Amplification and Neutralization.

A video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWuPzAKigs

Regards

 

OneLink