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Author Topic: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power  (Read 252466 times)

TinselKoala

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #210 on: August 24, 2014, 01:13:46 PM »
Would be good to have some test perameters right about now.
So we could do it like this.
It takes 1 joule of energy to lift 1kg of mass 10cm high.
If we are setting the weight to 1/2kg(500g's),with a lift hight of 2cm,then we need 100millijoules.
A cap that has say 5000uf would then need 6.325volts in it to give us our 100mJ.Or if we have a 10000 uf cap,we would need only 4.47 volts in it to give us our 100mJ.

So Luc,if you can lift that 500g weight by 2cm using a 10000uf cap with only 4.47 volts in it-you have hit unity. If you need only 4.46 volts in the cap to do it,you are OU.

Hmmm.... what if I take a one nF cap and charge it to 15 kV and discharge that into a water arc chamber, full of water, with the bottom of the 500g "piston" in contact with the water? Or rather, since the arc will cut off before the cap is completely discharged, let's say I start with 17 kV and end with 2 kV still on the cap. If I can get 2 cm rise (or 2.2 cm) out of the 500g piston, will I have OU?

You have to be very careful with this kind of reasoning. It's almost the same thing that caused Peter Graneau to waste years of his life and millions of dollars of grant funding, chasing an imaginary unicorn through a dense forest of experimental data.

telecom

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #211 on: August 24, 2014, 03:45:57 PM »
Dear TinMan, I think you're on the Very Right path in term of Correct Methodology for o.u. checking :D Caps are Very Great to provide accurate maths on energy delivering or input :)
How can be they so great if voltage varies and there is always a small charge remaining?

tinman

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #212 on: August 24, 2014, 04:04:11 PM »
How can be they so great if voltage varies and there is always a small charge remaining?
A cap with a set value(uf) and set voltage,will have X amount of energy(joules).After running the test,IF there is any voltage left in the cap,you simply calculate the joules of energy left in the cap,and subtract that from the amount you started with in the cap befor running the experiment.This is a very accurate way of seeing how much energy you used in the test.

tinman

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #213 on: August 24, 2014, 04:16:10 PM »
Hmmm.... what if I take a one nF cap and charge it to 15 kV and discharge that into a water arc chamber, full of water, with the bottom of the 500g "piston" in contact with the water? Or rather, since the arc will cut off before the cap is completely discharged, let's say I start with 17 kV and end with 2 kV still on the cap. If I can get 2 cm rise (or 2.2 cm) out of the 500g piston, will I have OU?

You have to be very careful with this kind of reasoning. It's almost the same thing that caused Peter Graneau to waste years of his life and millions of dollars of grant funding, chasing an imaginary unicorn through a dense forest of experimental data.
There is no reason i can see that this wouldnt be a valid test TK. Why dose this example you give,give reason for caution? Do you believe that your 15kv in your 1nF cap is enough to cause that greater explosion,that it will raise that 500g piston 2.2cm?. i doubt that very much. Infact,it is very hard to get an ark in water,and i dont think 15kv at 1nF would do anything at all.I have tried to get a spark plug to work under water,and even with that small spark gap and 25kv ,i couldnt get it to spark.

ramset

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #214 on: August 24, 2014, 04:34:38 PM »
TinMan
perhaps water purity will effect this? [very pure distilled or reverse osmosis]


Thx
Chet

telecom

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #215 on: August 25, 2014, 01:27:33 AM »
A cap with a set value(uf) and set voltage,will have X amount of energy(joules).After running the test,IF there is any voltage left in the cap,you simply calculate the joules of energy left in the cap,and subtract that from the amount you started with in the cap befor running the experiment.This is a very accurate way of seeing how much energy you used in the test.

Where will you get a cap with an exact value - they all within at least 10 %

gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2014, 05:06:57 AM »
Hi everyone,

I'm working on building a Super Tandem version of the Mostly Magnet Motor

Here is a video update of the building process

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhDnqw_le88

Luc

telecom

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2014, 06:04:48 PM »
Hi everyone,

I'm working on building a Super Tandem version of the Mostly Magnet Motor

Here is a video update of the building process

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhDnqw_le88

Luc

Great work plan - looking forward to completion!

ARMCORTEX

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2014, 06:38:57 PM »
Not useable as a lifting tool, you will dampen out the resonance, try on any physics sim.

Subwoofer for lowbanwidth frequency range is all I see good here.

What you need, is rotating eccentric mass on the shifting platform.

Now you have a force that can be tapped into.

I remember some russian guy on YT who had similar PUMP idea but for reciprocating motor, nope.

But as always, as is always the case, higher torque tends to dampen out the resonance.

tinman

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #219 on: August 25, 2014, 11:26:03 PM »
Where will you get a cap with an exact value - they all within at least 10 %
Only as per the spec's on the cap. A decent DMM will give you the correct value,and this is the value you use. An AC cap can be used in a DC situation aswell,and this way the flyback could also be collected.

tinman

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #220 on: August 26, 2014, 02:02:26 PM »
Hi everyone,

I'm working on building a Super Tandem version of the Mostly Magnet Motor

Here is a video update of the building process

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhDnqw_le88

Luc
This is a very large setup you have got going here Luc.
Your going to need a lot of good sized magnets,and a truck load of wire lol. Would you think that .71mm wire would be a good size for this one?.

gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #221 on: August 26, 2014, 03:48:16 PM »
Hi Brad,

I already had all the magnet and wire supplies purchased over 4 years ago.  Just never built it because the topic didn't have that much interest and I was starting to doubt it would give the results I was looking for.
I still don't know but if I never build it, we'll never know.
So if I'm going to build it, I'll give it my best shot.

This design requires 8 of 2" x 2" x 1" thick N52 magnets for the center and 32 of 1" x 1" cube N52 magnets for the sides.

I used a coil calculator program to find the ideal wire size. Gyula recommended to keep the resistance to a minimum but to have the wire amp turns in the hundreds of turns.  Looks like16 AWG or 1.29mm wire gives (see attached) around 400 turns, so basically 200 turns each stand wound bifilar.
I also attached the result of 14 AWG wire (second shot) but the amp turns are not enough.
The inductance value is for air coil, so I'll only know its real value once it's sandwiched in between the cores.

I should have an update video in the next 24 hr. of the coil winding process and one coil already done.

Luc

gotoluc

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #222 on: August 26, 2014, 11:44:50 PM »
Here is the video on winding the first coil and what it looks like when finished.

I checked the DC resistance of each bifilar stands and they are 1.3 Ohm each. The coil winding program had calculated 2.7 Ohms as a single coil, so we are right on track. I don't have my Inductance meter with me but will have it on Thursday.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULds78-fDoQ

Luc

telecom

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #223 on: August 27, 2014, 01:16:53 AM »
Here is the video on winding the first coil and what it looks like when finished.

I checked the DC resistance of each bifilar stands and they are 1.3 Ohm each. The coil winding program had calculated 2.7 Ohms as a single coil, so we are right on track. I don't have my Inductance meter with me but will have it on Thursday.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULds78-fDoQ

Luc
Great craftsmanship!

Magluvin

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Re: Mostly Permanent Magnet Motor with minimal Input Power
« Reply #224 on: August 27, 2014, 05:04:22 AM »
Hey Luc

Its a Monsta!  ;D   Nice work, as always.  ;)

Try a local hobby shop for your super glue/CA .    They have very thin (instant cure), medium and thick for filling larger holes and areas.  Its a lot cheaper than the normal store glues. A lot lot. ;)   I use this stuff all the time.  I have 3  4oz bot of super thin, 2 8oz bot of thin and a couple of thick. No job is too big. lol

Also, try superglue with your fiberglass. Also carbon fiber strips from scrap cloth and superglue/CA can strengthen or repair many things. The CA is just like resin, its not real strong unless its with fiber, what ever it may be.

Also the CA at the hobby shops have fine tip applicator nozzles.   ;D

Mags