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Author Topic: perpetual motion  (Read 30297 times)

Offline allcanadian

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perpetual motion
« on: December 07, 2009, 09:39:02 AM »
I thought you guys might like this article, it is by far the most common sense rationalization of how absurd the general arguement is against perpetual motion.
http://www.duschl-engineering.de/Fac...otion%2038.pdf

I like these paragraphs---

Quote:
“So far as anyone knows, there is no theoretical time limit to how long an unaided current could be sustained in a superconducting circuit. If you're thinking this appears to be a form of perpetual motion, you're correct! Contrary to popular belief, there is no law of physics prohibiting perpetual motion; rather, the prohibition stands against any machine or system generating more energy than it consumes…” 

Quote:
"Yet many scientists and engineers still seem to reason along lines similar to Planck’s statement. They erroneously assume that “perpetual motion” is against the laws of physics. They erroneously infer that a system in perpetual motion would continually do work without any energy input—when basic perpetual motion actually has nothing at all to do with a machine receiving extra energy or doing work. Instead, it has to do with a system placed in motion remaining perpetually in that state of motion unless and until acted upon by an external force that changes it." 

This gets to the very heart of the matter, the fact that many people have confused the context and terminology relating to perpetual motion. Physics states catagorically that everything is in perpetual motion--period, but this does not mean anything has gained energy in any way, the conservation of energy will continue to hold true as it should.
Regards
AC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

perpetual motion
« on: December 07, 2009, 09:39:02 AM »

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 09:53:16 AM »
lets say that you go to an area of space that contains no additional matter or energy and you take out a top and spin it to 1 RPM, you would think that since the top is in an area of space that contains no detectable matter or energy would spin forever, but, your own presents will alter the Top's speed over time and by simply observing it you will influence the top's rotational velocity over time.

you might get something to spin a long time but in 'this' Universe filled with so much influence, nothing can spin forever.

Jerry ;)

Offline allcanadian

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 11:15:25 AM »
@onthecuttingedge2005
Quote:
"lets say that you go to an area of space that contains no additional matter or energy and you take out a top and spin it to 1 RPM, you would think that since the top is in an area of space that contains no detectable matter or energy would spin forever, but, your own presents will alter the Top's speed over time and by simply observing it you will influence the top's rotational velocity over time.
you might get something to spin a long time but in 'this' Universe filled with so much influence, nothing can spin forever."

You have made many assumptions which do not make very much sense to me, one is that there could be any area of space which contains neither matter nor energy. From the little we know of space we know for certain that all space is filled with radiations of various wave periods and this radiation is a form of energy. As far as "observable" status is concerned this only applies in quantum mechanics on the sub-atomic scale for reasons nobody understands and not to macroscale objects. The presence of matter, a person, will produce gravic effects pulling objects inward giving the illusion of attraction but this gravic force to my knowledge has zero effects on rotation of objects and may actually be responsible for the orbiting/rotating motions of planets through field interactions. Your last statement seems a little off as well, "nothing can spin forever"---how do you know you have not lived forever nor could you?. What we call "forever" is an abstract concept at best, the fact is nobody knows for certain--nobody. What we can do is use the physics we have and these state that a body in motion will remain in motion unless acted on by external forces, these external forces are just as likely to accelerate the top in some manner as they are to deccelerate it. What we can say with near absolute certainty is that the constituent parts that are the top will remain in motion because 1)E=mc^2, energy is matter in motion, ie. everything that is the top will be matter or energy for eternity (conservation of energy) and they will be in motion because 2) Motion is defined as a change in distance between two points or objects as such every part of the top must be moving relative to something else in the universe. I think it was Mark Twain who once said---“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.”
Regards
AC


« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 11:39:46 AM by allcanadian »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 11:15:25 AM »
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Offline scotty1

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 12:18:11 PM »
Physicists Measure Elusive 'Persistent Current'

Ecnmag.com - October 14, 2009

New Haven, Conn. — Physicists at Yale University have made the first
definitive measurements of “persistent current,” a small but perpetual
electric current that flows naturally through tiny rings of metal wire
even without an external power source.

The team used nanoscale cantilevers, an entirely novel approach, to
indirectly measure the current through changes in the magnetic force it
produces as it flows through the ring. “They’re essentially little
floppy diving boards with the rings sitting on top,” said team leader
Jack Harris, associate professor of physics and applied physics at Yale.
The findings appear in the October 9 issue of Science.

The counterintuitive current is the result of a quantum mechanical
effect that influences how electrons travel through metals, and arises
from the same kind of motion that allows the electrons inside an atom to
orbit the nucleus forever. “These are ordinary, non-superconducting
metal rings, which we typically think of as resistors,” Harris said.
“Yet these currents will flow forever, even in the absence of an applied
voltage.”

Although persistent current was first theorized decades ago, it is so
faint and sensitive to its environment that physicists were unable to
accurately measure it until now. It is not possible to measure the
current with a traditional ammeter because it only flows within the tiny
metal rings, which are about the same size as the wires used on computer
chips.

Past experiments tried to indirectly measure persistent current via the
magnetic field it produces (any current passing through a metal wire
produces a magnetic field). They used extremely sensitive magnetometers
known as superconducting quantum interference devices, or SQUIDs, but
the results were inconsistent and even contradictory.

“SQUIDs had long been established as the tool used to measure extremely
weak magnetic fields. It was extremely optimistic for us to think that a
mechanical device could be more sensitive than a SQUID,” Harris said.

The team used the cantilevers to detect changes in the magnetic field
produced by the current as it changed direction in the aluminum rings.
This new experimental setup allowed the team to make measurements a full
order of magnitude more precise than any previous attempts. They also
measured the persistent current over a wider range of temperature, ring
size and magnetic field than ever before.

“These measurements could tell us something about how electrons behave
in metals,” Harris said, adding that the findings could lead to a better
understanding of how qubits, used in quantum computing, are affected by
their environment, as well as which metals could potentially be used as
superconductors.

Authors of the paper include Ania Bleszynski-Jayich, William Shanks,
Bruno Peaudecerf, Eran Ginossar, Leonid Glazman and Jack Harris (all of
Yale University) and Felix von Oppen (Freie Universität Berlin).

Cheers.
Scotty.
Sounds like Ed's PMH... ;D

Offline scotty1

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 12:37:43 PM »
"Past experiments tried to indirectly measure persistent current via the
magnetic field it produces (any current passing through a metal wire
produces a magnetic field)."

Ed wrote. "If perpetual motion holder's North pole prong is put East. South pole prong West, and then elevate the cross-bar's center up to the South pole vertically hanging magnet (that is, its lower end), then the magnet will swing South and when the cross-bar's center is elevated up to North pole vertically hanging magnet (lower end), then the magnet will swing North. (because of the right hand rule)

The cross-bar's ability to swing the North and South pole magnets off its center will remain as long as the cross-bar is not disturbed. It has little power but it could be made stronger by making bigger dimensions." Ed. L
----------------
The scientists couldn't detect a current via its field but Ed could... ;)

BTW. If you want to try that, you will need a pure soft wrought iron for a PMH, and a laminated keeper.
True wrought iron is not easy to get now.
If a PMH was made as Ed said and a pure wrought iron was used then you might get a good result, but so far my results have been, well, not good enough to write about.
---------------
Scotty.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 12:37:43 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 07:25:55 PM »
@scotty1
I am sure Ed.L understood the one point I was trying to make with this post, that we are surrounded by motion everywhere as matter and energy. We can debate semantics that a top may slow or matter may convert to energy or vice versa but the fact remains motion persists eternally. As Tesla once said---"Is this energy static or kinetic! If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic — and this we know it is, for certain — then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature."
Regards
AC

Offline scotty1

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 06:30:43 AM »
"They are in constant motion, they are running one kind of magnets
against the other kind, and if guided in the right channels they possess perpetual power." Ed. L
--------------
I'm sure they'll figure it out one day.
Tesla said the day we discover what electricity is will be the most important in the history of the human race.
Still waiting  ;D
Cheers mate.
Scotty.
http://leedskalnin.net/

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 06:30:43 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 07:05:44 PM »
... common sense rationalization of how absurd the general arguement is against perpetual motion.

This gets to the very heart of the matter, the fact that many people have confused the context and terminology relating to perpetual motion. Physics states catagorically that everything is in perpetual motion--period, but this does not mean anything has gained energy in any way, the conservation of energy will continue to hold true as it should.
Regards
AC

conservation of energy only holds true " unless acted on by an outside force". and since in the universe we live in, there is no place where there is "nothing. very where we look we find "something". even the 'vacuum' of space is filled with all kinds of things, and is not even a true "vacuum". There is no such thing as a "closed system".

a nucleus that's missing an electron is sitting in empty space.
and electron is nearby.
the electron will accelerate, gaining all kinds of energy until it reaches its eatheric-threshhold, which is at just under the speed of light in most situations. (can be greater than sometimes)
and enters a state of (almost) perpetual  motion.
i say almost becase over time, the sub-sub-particles [ ed refers to these as "tiny magnets"] become neutral in charge within the proton, and eventually it will decay, and so will the associated force attracting the electron, and said electron will shoot off in a tangential-line towards its next destination. we refer to this currently as the atoms "half-life", since we dont have a way yet to measure the discrete magnetic energy of the atomic nucleii within a given sample.

an aetheric distortion can cause a sub-sub-particle (and its opposite polarity) to manifest and either of these can attach itself to a set of sub-sub-particles and/or attach to a nearby unstable isotope, forming into a different type of atom. This atom would have additional energy that can attract a free electron, and set it into (almost) perpetual motion for many years, sometimes hundreds of thousands of years or more depending on the atomic structure.

we can ionize the atom and take this electron away.
and another electron will gain an incredible ammount of energy and the process repeates itself.

we can go down smaller than that, the quarks that make up the nucleus, are forming a magnetic path. very similar to the perpetual motion holder, just without the switch. the sub-sub particles within the quark are forming a magnetic path within the quark that determines the (+) energy flowing throuhg the atomic structure.
this is why it "radiates". this also determines the number of electrons that will be sustained in orbital paths around it, wether or not it can support a neutral quark-set (neutron), and subsequently, the "type" of atom it is.

we can go down smaller than that, the sub-sub-particles are made from aetheric-pairs (+/-, south, north) that manifest directly from the aether. a vast sea of infinite energy. this happens everywhere all the time. they generally crash into each other, in varrying number forming sub-sub-particles, and their opposites, which crash into each other (sometimes forming larger groups, such as sub-particles) then disentegrate back into the eather in a crash of energy, that (by mass) is greater than a nuclear reaction by a power of ^100,000.

occasionally, the circumstances prevail where these sub-sub-particles group together and do not crash into their opposite polarity. this forms a sub-particle. within which a magnetic path is formed. this too radiates energy, and its energy determines the path the electron will follow around the atom, and which other sub-particles it can attach to it, and in which direction.

Since space is never truly "empty", we do not find anything that is truly in "perpetual motion". but since there is (from our perspective)infinite energy all around us,  everything is always "moving".

While thermodynamic theory may hold true in a macro application
( in a newtonian sort of way...), we do not even have the ability to put it to the test, much less have anything that we can actually apply thermodynamic theory to. there's always energy from outside the system interfering with it. however small we may percieve it to be.

there were people, long before our current recorded history that knew much more about this than we do now. theres no telling how many times man has progressed technologically. then something happened that destroyed it all.

think about the majority of the people in the world right now.
and how much they actually "know".
if a catastrophe occured, and society as we know it became dismantled... almost all of our knowledge would be lost.
and studied, misinterpreted, misconceived by future historians.

all we know is what we've done inthe past 5 to 6 thousand years.
yet there is evidence of advanced societies existing tens of thousands of years before that, and evidence that man has been here much longer as a whole.

there is a trail of knowledge, passed down by people that didnt know what to do with it, and it contains clues about science and technology that mankind may not fully come to grasp with until our grandkids are our age. if we make it that long.

The energy that causes perpetual motion is infinite (at least as far are we are concerned, universally regional). What we are after, is like tapping into "the hand that is spinning the top".

causing aetheric distortions, and using the energy from the (+/-) pairs, the "tiny magnets" that are flowing through everything, even you and I right now.
but we dont have to go down that small. the same rules apply even to the larger groups, just as they to to the sub-sub-sub-atomic pairs that generate out of the eather.
just as they do to a large magnet you hold in your hand

if you create a similar scenerio to the atom, with magnets you can not only create "perpetual motion", but also you can extract a massive ammount of energy from the acceleration of the "electron" magnet that is orbiting.

actually doing this, is a technological brick-wall, but there are ways around that, to create exponential acceleration. similar to the work of David Hammell, by using only a portion of the orbital path.
This does not violate Thermodynamic Theory, the theory simply does not apply in this system, because there is outside influence from the eather that give the "tiny magnets" magnets their initial energy. and there is litterally billions of billions of them inside a small magnet. and about 1/3 as many in "perpetual motion" through the center of the magnet and around its sides.

















Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 07:05:44 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 07:21:53 PM »
Quote
similar to the work of David Hammell, by using only a portion of the orbital path.
This does not violate Thermodynamic Theory, the theory simply does not apply in this system, because there is outside influence from the eather that give the "tiny magnets" magnets their initial energy. and there is litterally billions of billions of them inside a small magnet. and about 1/3 as many in "perpetual motion" through the center of the magnet and around its sides.


Sean CLaNZeR's Hamel Spinner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3B9XfM0jwA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcu2X3rTTes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW2hbMeod1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2kz3DYpZdI
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 07:44:24 PM by FreeEnergy »

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 07:54:51 PM »
So all I need is a David Hammell spinning device and somehow apply a small electrical current (dc/ac?) to this device to get more output in the form of kinetic energy?  how exactly?  :) or i am completely off?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2010, 07:54:51 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2010, 08:52:42 AM »
So all I need is a David Hammell spinning device and somehow apply a small electrical current (dc/ac?) to this device to get more output in the form of kinetic energy?  how exactly?  :) or i am completely off?

hmm...  perhaps you could position a coil off-centered with respect to the 'magnetic center', in such a way that the EMF pushes the magnet away from the center, and maintains the imbalance, while generating electricity at the same time.

just dont let your load overpower the force between the two (well now 3 actually) interacting magnetic fields.

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 07:54:41 PM »
hmm...  perhaps you could position a coil off-centered with respect to the 'magnetic center', in such a way that the EMF pushes the magnet away from the center, and maintains the imbalance, while generating electricity at the same time.

just dont let your load overpower the force between the two (well now 3 actually) interacting magnetic fields.

a few pulses at a time would be best i guess, not sure.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 08:42:13 PM by FreeEnergy »

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2010, 08:49:52 PM »

Offline david lambright

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Re: perpetual motion
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2010, 09:23:19 PM »
Physicists Measure Elusive 'Persistent Current'

Ecnmag.com - October 14, 2009

New Haven, Conn. — Physicists at Yale University have made the first
definitive measurements of “persistent current,” a small but perpetual
electric current that flows naturally through tiny rings of metal wire
even without an external power source.

The team used nanoscale cantilevers, an entirely novel approach, to
indirectly measure the current through changes in the magnetic force it
produces as it flows through the ring. “They’re essentially little
floppy diving boards with the rings sitting on top,” said team leader
Jack Harris, associate professor of physics and applied physics at Yale.
The findings appear in the October 9 issue of Science.

The counterintuitive current is the result of a quantum mechanical
effect that influences how electrons travel through metals, and arises
from the same kind of motion that allows the electrons inside an atom to
orbit the nucleus forever. “These are ordinary, non-superconducting
metal rings, which we typically think of as resistors,” Harris said.
“Yet these currents will flow forever, even in the absence of an applied
voltage.”

Although persistent current was first theorized decades ago, it is so
faint and sensitive to its environment that physicists were unable to
accurately measure it until now. It is not possible to measure the
current with a traditional ammeter because it only flows within the tiny
metal rings, which are about the same size as the wires used on computer
chips.

Past experiments tried to indirectly measure persistent current via the
magnetic field it produces (any current passing through a metal wire
produces a magnetic field). They used extremely sensitive magnetometers
known as superconducting quantum interference devices, or SQUIDs, but
the results were inconsistent and even contradictory.

“SQUIDs had long been established as the tool used to measure extremely
weak magnetic fields. It was extremely optimistic for us to think that a
mechanical device could be more sensitive than a SQUID,” Harris said.

The team used the cantilevers to detect changes in the magnetic field
produced by the current as it changed direction in the aluminum rings.
This new experimental setup allowed the team to make measurements a full
order of magnitude more precise than any previous attempts. They also
measured the persistent current over a wider range of temperature, ring
size and magnetic field than ever before.

“These measurements could tell us something about how electrons behave
in metals,” Harris said, adding that the findings could lead to a better
understanding of how qubits, used in quantum computing, are affected by
their environment, as well as which metals could potentially be used as
superconductors.

Authors of the paper include Ania Bleszynski-Jayich, William Shanks,
Bruno Peaudecerf, Eran Ginossar, Leonid Glazman and Jack Harris (all of
Yale University) and Felix von Oppen (Freie Universität Berlin).

Cheers.
Scotty.
Sounds like Ed's PMH... ;D
hi everyone...my name is david lambright and i have some information you might find interesting...i have been experimenting with PMHs, using iron oxide as the core...i found a U shaped ferrite core in an old TV, and with 5 wraps of wire and a steel keeper on top, was able to get a "lock" with a 9.6v makita battery.....in another experiment, i filled an aluminum tube with black iron oxide, and bent it int o a circle [toroid], and taped the ends together making a continuous oxide core with an aluminum outer skin....i energized this rig just like an ED PMH, with a coil of insulated wire and a battery.....now there is a persistent flow of energy through the oxide core....this creates a visible distortion around the rig...it looks like a mirage or heat, but like a film or bubble....because this is now visible, i can see and study how this energy flows...if i use two of these devices, the energy flows between the rings always in a spiral....i will be making a video of this device soon and will post the link if anyone is interested....david

 

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