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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: wizkycho on March 13, 2006, 11:03:58 AM

Title: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on March 13, 2006, 11:03:58 AM
http://www.shec-labs.com/calc/fuel_energy_equivalence.php

1liter (1kg of water) contains 111grams of Hydrogen atoms and 888grams of Oxygen.

1g of H, burnt or exploded in one second releases 140400W per second. folks it's 140.4kW/s !!!!!

If one is capable of disociating ONLY* 10ml (10g) of water per second the one is capable of releasing that much power.

1ml (1cm^3) per second would mean 14kW !!!! and it's enogh to make our homes warm as hell at winter times.

*someone should meassure how much water is "LOST" through time and easily find energy equivalent.

coversion back to electricity should be done with kinda "OLD" steam piston engine which can have 90% efficiency.


Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 08, 2006, 01:15:50 PM
I have started another set of experiments and have a video of tap watter electrolysis 25A at only 4V7 (24 plates 1.5mm spacing ss plates). It's 66MB big and can't find web space to place it.
And today I'm filming 25 plates with 1mm spacing. If I make movie smaller bubbles are not well defined. please someone can you publish it ?
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 08, 2006, 01:45:21 PM
Dear wizkycho,
this are H-bomb numbers,
only to receive through "no limit space",
probably the name Sacharow gives a "KLICK" ,ZAR-bomb!
"warm as hell"- nomen et omen.

S
  dL
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 08, 2006, 02:35:40 PM

Dear wizkycho,
this are H-bomb numbers,
only to receive through "no limit space",
probably the name Sacharow gives a "KLICK" ,ZAR-bomb!
"warm as hell"- nomen et omen.

S
  dL

You must be joking,
14KW or 140KW is not nearly close to H-bomb. Otherwise Your car is equivalent to 10 H-bombs.
besides I don't think fusion or fision is the right way because it creates imbalance and more problems... so i'm not going your destructive way.
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 08, 2006, 02:57:25 PM
Wyzkycho,
at first I think and write about H2 and not H(elium),
second the ic-engine is an open-cycle explosion-engine,
most of the power is lost-the reaction is to slowly,
and when you calculate 140KW/s:how compressed
is your "process converter" ? mm^3/cm^3 ?
These 140KW/s are 504MW/h per gram H2 !
 

S
  dL
 
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 08, 2006, 03:21:23 PM
Wyzkycho,
at first I think and write about H2 and not H(elium),
second the ic-engine is an open-cycle explosion-engine,
most of the power is lost-the reaction is to slowly,
and when you calculate 140KW/s:how compressed
is your "process converter" ? mm^3/cm^3 ?
These 140KW/s are 504MW/h per gram H2 !
 

S
  dL
 

140KW if runned for a second is 140KW/s
140KW if runned for an hour is 140KW/h

http://www.webelements.com/webelements/scholar/elements/oxygen/key.html

Helium is still He, Hydrogen is H

Yes ?

Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 08, 2006, 04:12:06 PM
Hey wyzkycho,
"Yes",He(lium),pardon !
No,H2(ydrogen) !
The specific H2(ydrogen) energy density are 120 MJ/KG,
translated : +/-  33 KWH/Kg !!!
Your numbers are fusion reactor/accelerator numbers:
He(lium)+4Nukleons-process:1Kg H2 Fusion-energy output~ 200MWH ! Technical a "stationary H-Bomb" as reactor,closed-cycle.

140KW/s            X 3600s(=1h) ergo 540MW/h !!!
         per second                                   per hour

140KW/h                                     =0,03KW/s
         per hour                                        per second

S
  dL
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 08, 2006, 04:30:29 PM
Hey wyzkycho,
"Yes",He(lium),pardon !
No,H2(ydrogen) !
The specific H2(ydrogen) energy density are 120 MJ/KG,
translated : +/-  33 KWH/Kg !!!
Your numbers are fusion reactor/accelerator numbers:
He(lium)+4Nukleons-process:1Kg H2 Fusion-energy output~ 200MWH !
140KW/s X 3600s(=1h) ergo 540MW/h !!!

S
  dL

120MJ/Kg = 0.120kW/g => 120KW/s (if released in one second)
pretty much the same number that site gave 144KW/g

if I have 1 light lump of 100W and light it on for 1 seccond I have spend 100W/s
if I run it for an hour I have spend 100W/h and not in any way 360kW/h !?!

Your Mega calculations are completely out of any scope.
We all know about fusion and fision and certanly now that we don't wan't it on Earth.
If you are going to speak about F and F please open another topic ?

best regards

Igor Knitel
 
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 08, 2006, 04:50:52 PM
      your maths:   120 MJ/Kg =0,12KW/g     ???
 
      my first process step,
      converting:               
                             3,6MJ=1KWH

I can only repeat my opinion:
you exspect to get high energy gains,but you calculate with numbers,only to reach through Fusion-/Fission-reactors ! 
Hydrogen-cells are water-Cracker-/Catalysis-tech,so-from my opinion-
you can only exspect an output max. which is the specific energy density value !!!                        
S
  dL
 
                       100W/s = 100/3600 WH

                                                           
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 08, 2006, 10:06:13 PM
Hello Igor,

an explaination of the different conversion steps:
let me use the 120MJ/Kg Hydrogen energy content (I took this number from the net,in the books there is written:143MJ/Kg !)

                      120MJ/Kg
                     Kg to g(ram)
                    = 120KJ/  g   
                    =33,33WH/g

                    = 120KWs/g :this is what you want  !!!
                       

But one time more: 120KWs/g ~ 432MWp power plant

H2-book number:   143KWs/g ~ 514,8MWp power plant
                     
                      and this is a nice power density,for me !
                         
  I recitate yourself:      "warm as hell"
                               "hoellisch-warm"
         
Sincerely
            de Lanca       

p.s.: I do not know which site you are recitating,related :144KW/g,
       but please look after and compare :143KJ/Kg is 143KWs/Kg !
       Are "they-the site" writing in Kg or g Hydrogen use?
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 09, 2006, 12:15:08 PM
      your maths:   120 MJ/Kg =0,12KW/g     ???
 
      my first process step,
      converting:               
                             3,6MJ=1KWH

I can only repeat my opinion:
you exspect to get high energy gains,but you calculate with numbers,only to reach through Fusion-/Fission-reactors ! 
Hydrogen-cells are water-Cracker-/Catalysis-tech,so-from my opinion-
you can only exspect an output max. which is the specific energy density value !!!                        
S
  dL
 
                       100W/s = 100/3600 WH

                                                           

yes 120 MJ/Kg = 0,12KW/g is not true should be 120MJ/Kg=0.120MW/g=120KW/g which is close to 143KW/g of energy density that is stated on the site that is linked from the Very First Massage of this topic.

So you still claim that lamp light of 100W (domestic standard bulb) left to light up the room
for one hour will consume 360KWh ??? This is just not so it will consume 100Wh. The same is for production.

1J = 1W/s

so if 143KW is running for an hour youl get 143KWh or 143KWh/3600g (/per 3600grams of Hydrogen) 143KW/s/g (per second /and of course per gram) gives 143KWs/g.

So I stated that if 1g of hydrogen is burnt in one second it has released 143KW per second.
You only had to do is to read the statement and ad /g (per gram). 143KW/s/g = 143KWs/g

Think this solves it !
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 09, 2006, 12:42:34 PM
hello Igor,

100W/s = 100/3600 WH
100/3600 WH X 3600(sec.) = 100WH,yes this is the work of
the 100W bulb during 1 hour !!!
Where and when did I calculate with 360KWH consume ???

                120MJ/Kg =0,120MW/g =120KW/g
                ?????????????????????????????????
          Please correct yourself:Joule versus Wattsecond 

Sincerely
           de Lanca
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 09, 2006, 12:55:24 PM
Wyzkycho,
at first I think and write about H2 and not H(elium),
second the ic-engine is an open-cycle explosion-engine,
most of the power is lost-the reaction is to slowly,
and when you calculate 140KW/s:how compressed
is your "process converter" ? mm^3/cm^3 ?
These 140KW/s are 504MW/h per gram H2 !
 

S
  dL
 

here, you just multiplied 140KW/s with 3600 and THEN added per gram. So you made a wrong calculations.
Read the text as it is.
Think that first letter is quite clear.

Igor
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 09, 2006, 01:06:50 PM
Please differ between the Hydrogen energy content and the
peak power plant construction,and this 504MW/H are per g/sec.!
It is like the capacitor:up to 10kW per Kg but only 60WH per Kg !

S
  dL
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: wizkycho on June 09, 2006, 01:31:15 PM
Please differ between the Hydrogen energy content and the
peak power plant construction,and this 504MW/H are per g/sec.!
It is like the capacitor:up to 10kW per Kg but only 60WH per Kg !

S
  dL

I have difered it in the very first letter !
Title: Re: Hydrogen Efficency and Power
Post by: lancaIV on June 09, 2006, 02:07:21 PM
Yes,I see the 504MW/H are wrong calculated,
3600^2=3600gX3600sec.,
right calculation; peak power 143KWX3600s=143KWH !

So you "only" need the 143KWp power plant orientation if you
want to use/convert 1g H2/per second !

Pardon me for the controversial discussion,but you did it me
not easier !

The 200MWH per Kg Hydrogen are not "out of scope",
this is the conversion of the aequivalent of 25000t SKE,
1t SKE=8000KWH energy content X 25000 = 200GWH !
He-lium+Nukleons-Fusion-reaction !

Sincerely
             de Lanca