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Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1197916 times)


exnihiloest

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #796 on: December 30, 2009, 10:29:07 AM »
Hi All,

Please see this video of my Steorn test motor running on a virtually dead 9V battery.
...

Hi Ossie,

A "virtually dead" battery can still provide current for a while when the voltage is not a question (and here it is the case, because the coils have a low resistance).
Why to not replace the "virtually dead" 9V battery with a capacitor of some hundreds µF?


Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #797 on: December 30, 2009, 10:45:44 AM »
Hi Ossie,

A "virtually dead" battery can still provide current for a while when the voltage is not a question (and here it is the case, because the coils have a low resistance).
Why to not replace the "virtually dead" 9V battery with a capacitor of some hundreds µF?
Because exchanging the battery for a capacitor turns the device into something else, not what is claimed nere. If you understand the principle of action of this motor you'd no better that it has to work with a battery, preferably not virtually dead battery, even.

exnihiloest

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #798 on: December 30, 2009, 10:47:41 AM »
I agree, if you have a device that you can show is over 100% efficient, then overunity is easy to prove there, so certainly efficiency is relevant to overunity.

Omnibus is talking about total energy, though, so I suppose if heat output + mechanical output > energy input, you have overunity.

How do you accurately measure the total heat from a device though?

Hi eatenbyagrue
You do not need it, or only in a second step.
In the first step, to accurately measure the input and output energy in order to be sure the second one is more than the first, is enough. I suppose that all in all, we would be satisfied with such a proof.
Then we could search for the hidden source (ZPE, environnemental thermal bath...) using calorimeters or other means but this would be only for intellectual satisfaction and theorical knowledge.





Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #799 on: December 30, 2009, 11:03:02 AM »
Zero point energy (ZPE) is a non-phenomenon and should be excluded as a possible explanation. Environmental thermal bath is out of the question too as an explanation once one gets comfortable with the principle of action of the motor. This is pure and genuine obtainment of energy out of no pre-existing energy reservoir -- violation of CoE in its fullest.

exnihiloest

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #800 on: December 30, 2009, 11:09:26 AM »
Because exchanging the battery for a capacitor turns the device into something else, not what is claimed nere.
...

What is claimed is a motor running from a battery.
Omnibus, you must be informed that it is not new  :D

If the battery is a mean for storing and recovering electrical energy, and nobody said it is not the case here, then we can use capacitors instead. It is just a question of quantity of charges that we have to deal with (with just an adaptation of the electronics because a capacitor does not work at a constant voltage).

All motor cycles being identical, it is clear that the balance of charges exchange is the same at each motor turn. Thus a battery or capacitor able to store and furnish the charges smoothly on one turn is enough. This needs not at all a high capacity battery like that used by Steorn.

But if it is a magic battery, I agree that we cannot replace it by other means.


Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #801 on: December 30, 2009, 11:09:59 AM »
There are many knowledgeable people here, fine engineers and researchers, who have followed the development of this idea for a long time who would know where it actually originated from. Who was the first to propose that a permanent magnet motor would only be coupled magnetically with the core of a coil (probably toroid is the best choice but who propsed it first) excluding any electrical rotor-coil coupling? Who was the first to notice that the current and voltage scope traces don't change form under load in such a machine which is a direct proof that said machine is OU. This contraption os one of the most brilliant ideas I've seen inthe OU field and kudos to Steorn for bringing it so powerfully into the public space.

exnihiloest

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #802 on: December 30, 2009, 11:33:46 AM »
Zero point energy (ZPE) is a non-phenomenon and should be excluded as a possible explanation. Environmental thermal bath is out of the question too as an explanation once one gets comfortable with the principle of action of the motor. This is pure and genuine obtainment of energy out of no pre-existing energy reservoir -- violation of CoE in its fullest.

"Zero point energy (ZPE) is a non-phenomenon..."
"Environmental thermal bath is out of the question..."

It is irrelevant to say that possible explanations for a not proved claim are wrong. It does not make sens, it is to put the plow before the horse.
The question now is: is there OU?





Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #803 on: December 30, 2009, 11:39:42 AM »
The answer is: yes, there is OU. The constancy of U and I even under load prove it.

As for its explanation, as I said, in this and in any other case zpe cannot be utilized because zpe is a non-phenomenon. The case we're discussing is a geniuine OU, not seeming one and therefore environmental thermal bath as an explanation is also out of the question.

Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #804 on: December 30, 2009, 11:42:30 AM »
What is claimed is a motor running from a battery.
Omnibus, you must be informed that it is not new  :D

If the battery is a mean for storing and recovering electrical energy, and nobody said it is not the case here, then we can use capacitors instead. It is just a question of quantity of charges that we have to deal with (with just an adaptation of the electronics because a capacitor does not work at a constant voltage).

All motor cycles being identical, it is clear that the balance of charges exchange is the same at each motor turn. Thus a battery or capacitor able to store and furnish the charges smoothly on one turn is enough. This needs not at all a high capacity battery like that used by Steorn.

But if it is a magic battery, I agree that we cannot replace it by other means.
Like I said, if you really understood what's going on here you would've known that it is new and you wouldn't have even posted the above text.

exnihiloest

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #805 on: December 30, 2009, 12:11:54 PM »
If they're paying $$$ for ad space and intend to do nothing, as they have for the last 4+ years, that's just wrong. Playing Devil's Advocate, it could simply be a maneuver to keep investors paying Steorn's bills. I hope I'm wrong, but it really seems quite absurd at this point.

I think you are right. 4 years to make a small motor powered from a high capacity battery is the evidence.
It is not "Playing Devil's Advocate" but common sense.



Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #806 on: December 30, 2009, 01:02:10 PM »
Common sense? Common sense has always been that even 4000 years of effort won't bring even the smallest motor to display OU. However, it took only a couple of decades to accomplish that (those 4 years included). That's astounding.

eastcoastwilly

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #807 on: December 30, 2009, 01:08:44 PM »
I would be interested to see someone attach a fan blade to the motors shaft. Then put a plastic or cardboard tube over top of the fan blade. On the other end of the tube mount a small fan blade or motor  (like a 12 volt pc fan) with the fan blade reversed to use the airflow to power the small generator.

I am interested to see one of these little guys under a small load.

I had seen someone on youtube a few months ago do this with a Bedini motor (I think) and was interested in the concept. Of course, I can't find the video now.

Keep up the great work everyone, it's very entertaining :)

Will

exnihiloest

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #808 on: December 30, 2009, 01:48:42 PM »
Like I said, if you really understood what's going on here you would've known that it is new and you wouldn't have even posted the above text.

What is possibly going on here:
According to the plausible explanation from Jean-louis Naudin, it is stated that the rotor magnet is attracted by the magnetic core of the ferrite toroid.
It is stated that a current pulse saturates the toroid core when the magnet is about to quit its nearest position from the toroid, allowing the magnet to freely continues its motion, or at least to be only partially retained by a force weaker than the first attractive force, resulting in a net force creating the motor torque.

It is stated that there is no action/reaction between the coil circuit and the rotor magnet, because the B field remains located in the toroid core.

Where is the fault? In the last point. When the rotor magnet approaches the toroid, the magnetic domains align along the magnetic flux of the magnet.
The magnetic domains (separated from one another by the "domain walls") can be thought like ensembles of current loops.
When a current pulse is provided to the coil, it establishes a magnetic field that re-aligns the magnetic domains. Energy is needed to exert this torque onto the "current loops" of the magnetic domains, against the torque due to the permanent magnet. Thus the permanent magnet and the field from the coil are linked. It is only the big power used to energized the coil (tens W in the Naudin experiment) in comparison to the weak power that the magnet provides (probably mW or tens of mW), that prevents to clearly observe their relation through their mutual actions onto the magnetic domains.

The explanation from JL Naudin is conventional. Only the conclusion that there would be over unity for the reason indicated above is clearly outside of the observed facts. In Steorn and Naudin experiments, there is none fact proving OU.