Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1197970 times)

Reincarnate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #720 on: December 29, 2009, 09:21:29 AM »
If you mean by that that rotor turns at the expense of a few watts from the power supply then not only that's not an Orbo but its OU status is questionable. Rotor should not use any of the energy supplied by the power source.

That is quite a leap from what is known about both devices Omnibus.

To suggest that how one performs over the other is a departure from what I stated. "That they use the same basic process"

Next when one of them has not even been demonstrated or publically evaluated other than to show a prime mover and a scope shot from a company that failed to live into it's last claim is quite a leap of faith. Again has nothing to do with "same basic process"

Thane is using an off the shelf grinder motor and so the efficiency is quite low. His motor is MUCH LARGER so the current draw is not linear between the two. Thane is slow to refine as he is bogged down by outside influences such as NASA, DOE and CIA asking for replications.. the usual suspects.

Compare the apples to the apples you can see, not the oranges you imagine or have been told exist.

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #721 on: December 29, 2009, 09:33:46 AM »
It's true more evidence is needed to sustain the Orbo claim which is that the rotor draws no energy from the power supply. As far as I understand Thane Heins' rotor does draw energy from the power supply and that makes it an entirely different invention. You're right about bogging down but even a greater obstacle is poverty. Overwhelmingly those with the bright ideas are poor and that prevents them from bringing their ideas to fruition. Sean as head of Steorn isn't that poor and he could accomplish the objective to prove conclusivelu the reality of an OU machine (I'm not even concerned about bringing it to the market). Unfortunately, Steorn is a business and business is opposite to science.

callanan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 214
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #722 on: December 29, 2009, 09:33:49 AM »
Hi All,

I always knew of Steorn over the past few years because of their publicity but I was and am still pretty green in terms of understanding their technology prior to December the 15th 2009. I have had some correspondance with JLN in the past day or two and he has made me aware of the following which is very interesting.

"US 2009/0009157 A1 : SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR MEASURING ENERGY IN MAGNETIC INTERACTIONS : An apparatus and method is provided for measuring magnetic force response time due to the magnetic viscosity of materials and for measuring total energy exchanged due to relative motion of magnetic materials. Voltage and current versus time through an electromagnet is measured and recorded....
Inventors: Sean David McCarthy, Alan Simpson, Martin Flood, Maxime Sorin"

and

http://sites.google.com/site/steornlab/home

Regards,

Ossie


Reincarnate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #723 on: December 29, 2009, 09:40:57 AM »
Hi All,

I always knew of Steorn over the past few years because of their publicity but I was and am still pretty green in terms of understanding their technology prior to December the 15th 2009. I have had some correspondance with JLN in the past day or two and he has made me aware of the following which is very interesting.

"US 2009/0009157 A1 : SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR MEASURING ENERGY IN MAGNETIC INTERACTIONS : An apparatus and method is provided for measuring magnetic force response time due to the magnetic viscosity of materials and for measuring total energy exchanged due to relative motion of magnetic materials. Voltage and current versus time through an electromagnet is measured and recorded....
Inventors: Sean David McCarthy, Alan Simpson, Martin Flood, Maxime Sorin"

and

http://sites.google.com/site/steornlab/home

Regards,

Ossie

"Voltage and current versus time through an electromagnet is measured and recorded.... "

Which is exactly what I have been saying about how the shorted coil acts an accelerator coil.

If I try to push you backward, we both go backward. If my back is against the wall, only one of us moves and that speed is "accelerated"

Now look at Thanes device. The shorted coil is a wall.

but it all falls on deaf ears...

Reincarnate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #724 on: December 29, 2009, 09:49:12 AM »
It's true more evidence is needed to sustain the Orbo claim which is that the rotor draws no energy from the power supply. As far as I understand Thane Heins' rotor does draw energy from the power supply and that makes it an entirely different invention. You're right about bogging down but even a greater obstacle is poverty. Overwhelmingly those with the bright ideas are poor and that prevents them from bringing their ideas to fruition. Sean as head of Steorn isn't that poor and he could accomplish the objective to prove conclusivelu the reality of an OU machine (I'm not even concerned about bringing it to the market). Unfortunately, Steorn is a business and business is opposite to science.

Apparently you have not heard of the business of global warming and the carbon tax or how science is funded and sometimes why? I wish I could live in your idealistic world of bliss.

My guess is Steorn was looking at fraud charges and was offered a nice deal to discredit or lock up Thane's device in court. Bet you a dollar a lawsuit is filed in the next year and you can bet Thane, who has no funding, will just go away even though he invented it.

That is all speculation but then this entire thread is speculation until people look at the components that are being ignored such as the shorted coil and magnets below the rotor and how they are being used as an accelerator.

Most all free energy devices use "acceleration" to convert mass into the atomic energy contained within mass and they do not violate thermodynamics.

Reincarnate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #725 on: December 29, 2009, 10:43:44 AM »
It's true more evidence is needed to sustain the Orbo claim which is that the rotor draws no energy from the power supply. As far as I understand Thane Heins' rotor does draw energy from the power supply and that makes it an entirely different invention.

No it doesn't, it "allegedly" makes Thane's motor less efficient. The only differences are toroids verses coaxial coils, size and friction as I stated.

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #726 on: December 29, 2009, 10:56:02 AM »
Efficiency of the motor is none of our problems when discussing OU devices. It shouldn't even be mentioned. The crucial question is are there experiments proving that Thane Heins' rotor doesn't draw energy from the power supply. If that can be proved unequivocally Steorn will eat crow, lawsuit or no lawsuit.

By the way, is Thane Heins available for a commentary on Steorn's demo?

captainpecan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #727 on: December 29, 2009, 11:01:46 AM »
Why are you so bent on staying completely off topic and trying to send everyone to check out Thane's work?  We are not talking about Thanes work here.  There is a huge thread for Thanes work already, please lets stick to Orbo here in this thread.  I too have been watching Thanes work since his first couple video's hit you tube.  It's great stuff, but not exactly the same.  Although you feel some aspects may be similar, you have stated this plenty of times already.  We've got it okay, please let us work on Orbo. Thanes work is great, but what he is doing is feeding excess energy back to help the electric motor turn the generator.  There is no electric motor in Orbo at all.  The toroids ARE the motor. They are different.  I feel everyone SHOULD see Thanes work.  I have great respect for it.  But I respectfully ask that you let us work on Orbo over here.

teslaalset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 695
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #728 on: December 29, 2009, 11:20:14 AM »
Hi all

coincidence!

Yesterday I bought the Arduino manual thinking about how to solve the switch timing .

assuming that you need 5° accuracy timing with a 2500RPM you have 0.33 millisecond to run the software instructions it is enough??

A pratical solution is to use magnet pais like in the original video, in this case with N and S magnet you can reduce the interaction area improving the timing, increase the torque .... but reducing the effect and speed.

Instead to use a standard ferrite toroid ... wy not use a magnet toroid facing with opposit to the rotating magnet, like to Ossie experiment.

Ben , Ossie , Stefan all
Thanks for the information you have given me so far

Stefan please stop the music

Wings, I have my arduino already running.

Just a tip:
The default arduino boot-loader software uses a rather inefficient C-compiler.
That will not enable you in an easy way to get high output timing resolution.
I will use a programmer (Olimax) to be able to run the Admel processor using assembler language. By this you can easily obtain output resolution of 125 ns (most of the arduino's use 16 MHz clock freq),
As a reference: at 2400 rpm that will give you 360/200000 degrees resolution using one coil, one magnet

Another approach I am working out is to sample the induced voltage of the coils by the controller (the Atmel processors have an on-chip A/D converter). This will allow me to work without a seperate sensor

I'll take further discussions/questions on the Arduino controller method over PM to avoid cluttering this thread
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 11:59:49 AM by teslaalset »

wings

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 750
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #729 on: December 29, 2009, 11:25:29 AM »
Hi All,

I always knew of Steorn over the past few years because of their publicity but I was and am still pretty green in terms of understanding their technology prior to December the 15th 2009. I have had some correspondance with JLN in the past day or two and he has made me aware of the following which is very interesting.

"US 2009/0009157 A1 : SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR MEASURING ENERGY IN MAGNETIC INTERACTIONS : An apparatus and method is provided for measuring magnetic force response time due to the magnetic viscosity of materials and for measuring total energy exchanged due to relative motion of magnetic materials. Voltage and current versus time through an electromagnet is measured and recorded....
Inventors: Sean David McCarthy, Alan Simpson, Martin Flood, Maxime Sorin"

and

http://sites.google.com/site/steornlab/home

Regards,

Ossie



here the link

http://www.google.com/patents?id=1dOyAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=&f=true

and file

captainpecan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #730 on: December 29, 2009, 11:26:08 AM »
I just got done winding my new toroid.  I went ahead and tried using a steel bushing I got from the local hardware store for the core.  I know the properties of steel are not always desirable for these motors, but I wanted to try the much less permeability aspect. It's actually no different than a washer with a bigger hole in the middle.  I used 1500 turns of #26 wire (took all night to wind).  I am reworking the whole rotor design, so I did not get a chance to test for a runner yet.  But I did do jean's test.  With my last ferrite toroids that drank current, using jeans test would BARELY drop 1 half inch neo when hit with 12 volts.  This thin steel bushing core, with 1500 turns, drops 6, 3/4" neo's stacked like it was nothing.  So I think I am in business.  Thanks for the details on all of your work, it's extremely appreciated.  I know steel is not supposed to work as well, but I'll give it a shot with 1 toroid anyway and see, who knows.  Much lower permeability may prove worth while.

Reincarnate

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #731 on: December 29, 2009, 12:25:36 PM »
Efficiency of the motor is none of our problems when discussing OU devices. It shouldn't even be mentioned. The crucial question is are there experiments proving that Thane Heins' rotor doesn't draw energy from the power supply. If that can be proved unequivocally Steorn will eat crow, lawsuit or no lawsuit.

By the way, is Thane Heins available for a commentary on Steorn's demo?

I don't what Thane's status is nor do I speak for him. Neither Steorn or Thane have demonstrated overunity in terms of a self running device and Thane does not want to to touch that with a ten foot pole for commercial reasons from what he has stated.

BOTH Thane and Steorn show (or claim to show in the case of Steorn) a cancellation of Lentz law. They also both appear to doing that in the same way and that is the pink elephant in the room.

Monkey see monkey do, isn't going to understand it if the monkey can't see the pink elephant. The other aspects of the differences or performance in the two are what is irrelevant.

Omnibus

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5330
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #732 on: December 29, 2009, 12:31:24 PM »
Anyway, let's stick to Steorn right now becauste, being better endowed at present, the likelihood of them proving OU definitively (not through a closed loop) is greater.

futuristic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
    • HTML Color Codes
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #733 on: December 29, 2009, 01:51:54 PM »
This thin steel bushing core, with 1500 turns, drops 6, 3/4" neo's stacked like it was nothing.

Fantastic work, tnx for sharing. ;)

exnihiloest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 715
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #734 on: December 29, 2009, 01:55:46 PM »

In the Steorn replication from JL Naudin,
http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/indexen.htm
we see the values of voltage and current used to power the coils:
8V, 18A and a duty cycle > 25% (http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/images/steorn4.jpg)
This leads to 36W/coil!
We now understand why Steorn is using a strong 10A/h battery instead of a capacitor...  It is a very unefficient motor.