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Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1197897 times)

Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #585 on: December 27, 2009, 02:15:12 PM »
@Omega_0,

Your method of calculation is the correct one and is the most direct way to prove OU in this case. We need to know also what the exact weight of the rotor is. I sent an e-mail to Naudin to that effect. No reply yet. As for the shunt, if it is a calibrated shunt the voltage drop measured across the shunt will give you the current precisely.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #586 on: December 27, 2009, 02:26:51 PM »
Hi OB,

OK, this was the best I could do. See pics below. Motor runs at 180 RPM for an input of 2.2V at 300ma or 0.66 watts.

Approximate rotor weight is 350 grams.

Regards,

Ossie

HI OB,

My rotor weighs 33 GRAMS!!!!!  About 800 ma peak/50% duty cycle, average of 400 ma @ 10 volts, 800 rpm.  Give or take..........or 3.2 watts. 


Omega_0

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #587 on: December 27, 2009, 02:29:13 PM »
Hi OM,

There is a power supply/battery there just out of sight.  6VDC, big cap. filter. DC current is not right on meter on left, DVM/DIM does not work correctly with that duty cycle, must use scope and current shunt to do it right.  BUT GREAT RUNNING MOTOR!!!!!!

JLN getting ducks in row!

Respectfully
Ben

I guess I mistook the big cap as the power source. There is no explanation of the setup there. You are correct, the readings on the meters are wrong, one needs a scope in such cases.

Omega_0

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #588 on: December 27, 2009, 02:36:04 PM »
@Omega_0,

Your method of calculation is the correct one and is the most direct way to prove OU in this case. We need to know also what the exact weight of the rotor is. I sent an e-mail to Naudin to that effect. No reply yet. As for the shunt, if it is a calibrated shunt the voltage drop measured across the shunt will give you the current precisely.

Thanks.. :)
Surely, if the shunt is exactly 1 ohm, the scope will read the current directly. Here it is 0.01. I'm a bit confused, because adjusting the scope reading gives 1800 Amp as peak current which is absurd.

Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #589 on: December 27, 2009, 02:38:30 PM »
Sorry Ossie and Ben, one more thing. What's the diameter of your rotor?

callanan

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #590 on: December 27, 2009, 02:40:49 PM »
Sorry Ossie and Ben, one more thing. What's the diameter of your rotor?

Mine is 100mm or 4 inches. I used two disks used for cutting metal with angle grinders. Standard 4 inch angle grinder disks.

Ossie

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #591 on: December 27, 2009, 02:56:16 PM »
Thanks.. :)
Surely, if the shunt is exactly 1 ohm, the scope will read the current directly. Here it is 0.01. I'm a bit confused, because adjusting the scope reading gives 1800 Amp as peak current which is absurd.

Be sure that resistor is .01 OHM.  You can verify that resistance using ohms law and a constant current power supplly.  Put 1 amp into resistor and measure voltage across it.  IF 10 mv, .01 ohm, if 100 mv, .1 ohm, if 1 ohm, will be 1 VOLT.  E=IR.  We have a known current and a unknown resitance......Measured E is 10 mv, therefore R=E/I.........OK  NOW that you are sure of your resistance.......

Ohms law. E (across shunt)=I (current thrugh shunt) X (times) R (resistance of shunt) or E=IR.  IF current is 1 amp and resistance is .01 ohm, voltage measured across resistor will be .01 Volts. (10 mv.)  Now you know the voltage across shunt per. amp.  Set your scope  Vert. to 10 mv/div and each amp will be one division or 100 mv/div and then 10 amps will be one division......  The important thing is to know how many mv is developed across that shunt/ amp.  In this case 10 mv! SCOPE always ground to ground side of power supply.   OK..... Instrumentation 101

Ben

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #592 on: December 27, 2009, 02:58:16 PM »
Sorry Ossie and Ben, one more thing. What's the diameter of your rotor?


Sprite drink al can.......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   hummmmmmmm................How bout 65 mm. give or take 68 with magnets.

Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #593 on: December 27, 2009, 02:59:02 PM »
Sorry Ossie, but yours appears to be undeunity (if the unaccounted for heat losses don't turna that around). So, let's review what you have:

Input energy every second:
E = 2.2V
I = 0.3A
duty cycle = 0.48
Therefore, energy spent every secon is:
W = 0.48 x 2.2V x 0.3A = 0.32W or 0.32J every second

Output energy (only rotational kinetic energy):
Mass of rotor = 0.35kg
Radius of rotor = 0.05m
Rotations per second = 180/60 = 3rps
KE = 0.5 x 0.35kg x 0.05m x 0.05m x (2 x 3.14 x 3)^2 = 0.16J

Therefore, efficiency = 0.16/0.32 = 0.5 (heat losses unaccounted for) which is far from OU.

Omnibus

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #594 on: December 27, 2009, 03:12:24 PM »
Hi Ben,

This is what appears to come out from your data:

Input energy every second:
E = 10V
I = 0.4A
duty cycle = 0.5
Therefore, energy spent every secon is:
W = 0.5 x 10V x 0.4A = 2W or 2J every second

Output energy (only rotational kinetic energy):
Mass of rotor = 0.033kg
Radius of rotor = 0.034m
Rotations per second = 800/60 = 13.3rps
KE = 0.5 x 0.033kg x 0.034m x 0.034m x (2 x 3.14 x 13.3)^2 = 0.13J

Therefore, efficiency = 0.13/2 = 0.065 (heat losses unaccounted for) which is even farther from OU than Aussie's.

There's an almost an order of magnitude discrepancy between yours and Aussies' so maybe some of the data aren't correct. Could you please double check just to make sure. Thanks.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #595 on: December 27, 2009, 03:24:14 PM »
Hi Ben,

This is what appears to come out from your data:

Input energy every second:
E = 10V
I = 0.4A
duty cycle = 0.5
Therefore, energy spent every secon is:
W = 0.5 x 10V x 0.4A = 2W or 2J every second

Output energy (only rotational kinetic energy):
Mass of rotor = 0.033kg
Radius of rotor = 0.034m
Rotations per second = 800/60 = 13.3rps
KE = 0.5 x 0.033kg x 0.034m x 0.034m x (2 x 3.14 x 13.3)^2 = 0.13J

Therefore, efficiency = 0.13/2 = 0.065 (heat losses unaccounted for) which is even farther from OU than Aussie's.

There's an almost an order of magnitude discrepancy between yours and Aussies' so maybe some of the data aren't correct. Could you please double check just to make sure. Thanks.

Darned if I know, I sure have good bearings!  Perhaps if you subtracted the heat loss which in my case is really almost 100% of the energy used!,  you would see what the motor is actually doing, but not the system.  The we can zero in on preventing resistive heat loss later! 

Respectfully,

Ben

callanan

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #596 on: December 27, 2009, 03:31:56 PM »
Sorry Ossie, but yours appears to be undeunity (if the unaccounted for heat losses don't turna that around). So, let's review what you have:

Input energy every second:
E = 2.2V
I = 0.3A
duty cycle = 0.48
Therefore, energy spent every secon is:
W = 0.48 x 2.2V x 0.3A = 0.32W or 0.32J every second

Output energy (only rotational kinetic energy):
Mass of rotor = 0.35kg
Radius of rotor = 0.05m
Rotations per second = 180/60 = 3rps
KE = 0.5 x 0.35kg x 0.05m x 0.05m x (2 x 3.14 x 3)^2 = 0.16J

Therefore, efficiency = 0.16/0.32 = 0.5 (heat losses unaccounted for) which is far from OU.

Hi OB,

Don't be sorry. Thanks for the effort. Much more things to explore. Steorn is supposedly going to report on heat in the motor in January so we shall see just how much heat versus mechanical energy equals input for them. For my motor, I don't know. But it will be a factor. Anyway, I did a video of the running motor. Here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gXQagKSNc

Regards,

Ossie


PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #597 on: December 27, 2009, 03:50:08 PM »

Wow, I can't believe my eyes,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8528.msg217758#msg217758

Please discuss any temperature related stuff in that thread, otherwise I'll probably miss your post.

Thanks,
Paul

futuristic

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #598 on: December 27, 2009, 03:58:49 PM »
Hey guys. Today I have attempted to do Orbo replication, but sadly I didn't do enugh wire turns on toroids core, so they don't saturate. Will try to make new toroids soon.

Crapy quality video made with cellphone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qvaQxtpQrM

Photo:

PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #599 on: December 27, 2009, 04:05:30 PM »
The link in my previous post suddenly broke, lol, oddly enough. Here it is again,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8528.msg217758#msg217758