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Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1198060 times)

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #465 on: December 25, 2009, 11:22:04 PM »
High Stefan,

Can't do that as part of the bridge would short the coil in the wrong direction due to normal wiring but I can put a single 1/2 wave diode in there just to see what will happen.  Draw it out, will understand.  If had a separate winding like Bedini could do it but with the quadf coil, no inductance!!!!!!!!  a gotcha there.

Next post will show results.

Respectfully
Ben

You are right,
but you can start by letting the cap charge up to the power supply voltage via
the battery or power supply and then see from this point ,how much if will further charge
up over the power supply voltage.
The graetz bridge will only conduct, when the BackEMF voltage will
be higher than the cap voltage and as the cap voltage will be higher than
the supply voltage, the graetz bridge will only conduct during BackEMF spike voltage
and charge up the cap to the maximum spike voltage of the BackEMF.

Then you can calculate the difference energy the cap has got in a timeframe
by substrating the energy it had at the start with the supply voltage level.

This way also a graetz bridge will work for it, but you probably have to use
a cap that can stand around 100 Volts or more.

lumen

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #466 on: December 25, 2009, 11:24:34 PM »
MileHigh,

Quote
So there is nothing free about this process if you want to recover the back EMF after the coil has done its job of saturating the ferrite core.  You have to put out a lot more energy to make the core "disappear" than you can get back in any back-EMF recovery circuit.  In a Joule Thief circuit, the charging current in the collector coil is automatically shut off once the coil is fully charged with current, it is a self-regulating process.  Therefore a Joule Thief would return a much higher proportion of the charging energy in its inductive kickback.

I agree, the pulse in the Steorn motor is maintained for a very long duration and will consume too much energy.
If they are able to make this operate and still recover enough energy from the generator section to cover it, then it sure seem like in a solid state device where the saturation time could be minimal, a large amount of power could be generated.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #467 on: December 26, 2009, 12:04:43 AM »
You are right,
but you can start by letting the cap charge up to the power supply voltage via
the battery or power supply and then see from this point ,how much if will further charge
up over the power supply voltage.
The graetz bridge will only conduct, when the BackEMF voltage will
be higher than the cap voltage and as the cap voltage will be higher than
the supply voltage, the graetz bridge will only conduct during BackEMF spike voltage
and charge up the cap to the maximum spike voltage of the BackEMF.

Then you can calculate the difference energy the cap has got in a timeframe
by substrating the energy it had at the start with the supply voltage level.

This way also a graetz bridge will work for it, but you probably have to use
a cap that can stand around 100 Volts or more.

H Stefan,

This will surprise you!

Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_XPxbbOig

No need to say more except it will also charge a 650 F super cap at the rate of about 2 mv/Min......will get a much more accurate
rate later.

Respectfully,
Ben

mondrasek

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #468 on: December 26, 2009, 12:05:04 AM »
I am enjoying every moment of this.  Thanks to all!

K4, listening to your voice on the video I'd say you are from the South East of the USA.  Tennessee to be exact.  Am I close?

PS.  To those who think I am the MIB for asking this question, I apologize.  I am not.  I just work with many good souls in TN who talk similarly to Ben, so I am curios. 

No ulterior motives.

M.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #469 on: December 26, 2009, 12:17:59 AM »
I am enjoying every moment of this.  Thanks to all!

K4, listening to your voice on the video I'd say you are from the South East of the USA.  Tennessee to be exact.  Am I close?

PS.  To those who think I am the MIB for asking this question, I apologize.  I am not.  I just work with many good souls in TN who talk similarly to Ben, so I am curios. 

No ulterior motives.

M.

How about western North Carolina just over the Blue Ridge Mountains.  Now,  I'm retired to St. Petersburg, FL, an old fart that loves to play with out of the box stuff.  I now but still get that twange worse when I'm on "TV".  Heck of you were MIB, I'd invite you down for a cup of coffee and gab your head off!!!!  Life is good....

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #470 on: December 26, 2009, 12:22:48 AM »
Hi all,

For those that like to play with numbers the motor will charge up a 650 F  Cap. at the rate of .198 V/ hour.  How much electrical energy is it producing?   Have fun.

Respectfully,

Ben

mondrasek

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #471 on: December 26, 2009, 12:45:42 AM »
K4,

Thanks again for your work.  (I'm guessing many more are reading than are posting.)

As for:  gab your head off!

1) I would humbly oblige to listen!

2) I'd buy the first round.  Or not if your prefer.

Gentlemen...

Gentlemen...

PS.  My baby is sleeping right now.  She was blown away by Xmas...

Merry, Merry..

Awh, hell....

Merry Christmas!

And Peace on Earth.

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #472 on: December 26, 2009, 12:53:31 AM »
H Stefan,

This will surprise you!

Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_XPxbbOig

No need to say more except it will also charge a 650 F super cap at the rate of about 2 mv/Min......will get a much more accurate
rate later.

Respectfully,
Ben

Very nice Ben !
Well done ! Great BackEMF recycling circuit.

Did you just use a diode ?
What diode ?
Do you have a very fast diode ?
It will help.
Like MU5xxx types or so..

The energy comes from the stored magnetic field energy from the toroidal coil.
W= 0.5LI^2

Ben, as you switch on about 20 x tau
you need to go to higher supply voltages and
lower ontime intervals, so you will reduce the ontime
to less than tau=L/R.

This way you could scale the motor up
and could recycle almost all of your input energy back to the cap,
if you stay below about 1/5th of tau for the ontime.

With higher supply  voltage you will then already reach in a shorter
time interval the same input current level as you reach now
after longer time.

I studied this all long time ago already with the Newman coils,
so I know quite well what is going on there.


Many thanks again Ben, you are a real help here.

Very well done.
Regards, Stefan.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 02:13:02 PM by hartiberlin »

futuristic

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #473 on: December 26, 2009, 12:57:30 AM »
Hi.

Cause I'm lazy I used online calc  ;D
http://www4.slikomat.com/09/1226/iey-capaci.png
In one hour you got 13 J of energy. 13J=13Ws
P=13Ws/3600s=3.61mW
I hope It's right if not correct me. ;D

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #474 on: December 26, 2009, 01:03:49 AM »
Hi all,

For those that like to play with numbers the motor will charge up a 650 F  Cap. at the rate of .198 V/ hour.  How much electrical energy is it producing?   Have fun.

Respectfully,

Ben

Hmm, seems to me that you are recovering 35 milliWatts while charging the cap.
At what voltage level did you measure this ?
As the cap charge ramp is only linear around 0 Volts and then goes into
a e-function it really depends on the voltage level the cap already has...

I will have another look at your last video and look into this to calculate
the recycled power level.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #475 on: December 26, 2009, 01:06:31 AM »
Very nice Ben !
Well done ! Great BackEMF recycling circuit.

Did you just use a diode ?
What diode ?
Do you have a very fast diode ?
It will help.
Like MU5xxx types or so..

The energy comes from the stored magnetic field energy from the toroidal coil.
W= 0.5LI^2

Ben, as you switch on about 20 x tau
you need to go to higher supply voltages and
lower ontime intervals, so you will reduce the ontime
to less than tau=L/R.

This way you could scale the motor up
and could recycle almost all of your input energy back to the cap,
if you stay below about 1/5th of tau for the ontime.

With higher supply  voltage you will then already reach in a shorter
time interval the same input current level as you reach now
after longer time.

I studied this all long time ago already with the Newman coils,
so I know quite well what is going on there.


Many thanks again Ben, you are a real help here.

Very well done.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,

Now you said a mouthful there.  I would like to run several hundred volts and let that QuadF coil do its magic.  It stores a lot more energy than we suspect.  And I'm not certain it doesn't store energy from the magnetic field passing as in produces energy!.  How much I DONT KNOW. Room for months of experimentation and I love R&D.  This will not be a long winter with this good stuff going on! That said, I would have to have a much more precise timing circuit.  Have done this before with opto and 1-2 ms pulse around  5-700 volts,  But that is another story and won't go there.  Not using HS diode, 1N4007, probably would be better with schotkey diode which I have on hand but this was just a quick test.

Respectfully
Ben


« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 02:17:00 PM by hartiberlin »

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #476 on: December 26, 2009, 01:12:35 AM »
Well
in your last video Ben,
you have charged the 60,000 uF cap= 0.068 Farad cap
in about 27 seconds from zero to about 6 Volts,
that means an energy storage of
W= 0.5 x 0.068 x (6 Volts)^2=1.224 Wattsseconds
Then divide this by 27 seconds and you get a power level
of about 45 MilliWatts, so it is in the same range as the charging of the
Bootcap tells us.

This is a valid level for BackEMF extraction, as your coil has not too much L
inductance and only bigger power levels could be extracted, if you will
have a higher inductance coil L.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #477 on: December 26, 2009, 01:32:27 AM »
Hmm, seems to me that you are recovering 35 milliWatts while charging the cap.
At what voltage level did you measure this ?
As the cap charge ramp is only linear around 0 Volts and then goes into
a e-function it really depends on the voltage level the cap already has...

I will have another look at your last video and look into this to calculate
the recycled power level.

Always start @ 0VDC.  And you are right, it is a non-linear curve.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #478 on: December 26, 2009, 01:36:20 AM »
Well
in your last video Ben,
you have charged the 60,000 uF cap= 0.068 Farad cap
in about 27 seconds from zero to about 6 Volts,
that means an energy storage of
W= 0.5 x 0.068 x (6 Volts)^2=1.224 Wattsseconds
Then divide this by 27 seconds and you get a power level
of about 45 MilliWatts, so it is in the same range as the charging of the
Bootcap tells us.

This is a valid level for BackEMF extraction, as your coil has not too much L
inductance and only bigger power levels could be extracted, if you will
have a higher inductance coil L.

Excellent. Thats about what I got.  Good work.  I use the Electronics 2000 calculator that I found on line and saved to my ol HP computer that does that too.......lazy.

Respectfully
Ben

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #479 on: December 26, 2009, 05:01:24 AM »
Several questions as to how coil is wound.  Pictorial attached.

Respectfully
Ben