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Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1197915 times)

PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #390 on: December 24, 2009, 04:40:12 PM »

Would you mind explaining the circuit you mentioned that could harvest flyback current?

Here's the link,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8411.msg216551#msg216551

His images are self explanatory, as it shows the path of current during the steps.

lumen

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #391 on: December 24, 2009, 06:51:00 PM »
Staffman,
Quote
I've been doing equations for the past three days to try to show output. I'm having trouble with the output coil equations. I know standard coil equations. But how can I calculate the amps in the output coil if the toroid is saturating and un-saturating, in say 1/1000th of a second. If the magnetic field (0.46T) generated by a coil (in response to the external magnet) around a 2000u permeable material is created by 0.02 amps of current, is that saying multiply the amps times the frequency(1000 times per sec) to get amps in one second?

It would be very difficult to calculate anyway since you can't know the field actually flowing through the core from the permanent magnets.
You could calculate the required energy to saturate the toroid coil's core if you know the core material and the ratio of on time to off time (50%), but the output coil current flowing during the off time, is a function of the field flowing through the cores from the permanent magnets which is actually unknown since not all the field would flow through the cores.
 The interesting part, is this area can be improved by better design, so at what point does it reach OU if ever?


k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #392 on: December 24, 2009, 07:59:33 PM »
@k4zep:  I think you're right about the balance being of the utmost importance in this system.

@lumen:  Excellent concept to possibly manifest a working toroid meg generator into existence.  This is interesting and I'll have to take a good look at it.

@broli:  Thanks for your circuit and the simulations on the permeability and the information you posted.

@esaruoho:  Nice high quality videos.


This is great stuff!


GB

Hi GB.

Getting close on my proof of concept motor.  With Honney doooos, running around on Xmas Eve, time is short.  Right now, only have two pairs of magnets N/S orientation top to bottom.  Quad-filiar coil is 180T, each coil on Red form is 560 uH, when in QF mode, only have 12uH total all 4 coils @ 12.5 ohms total on coil.  Core is crap.  Interesting enough, in generator mode only about 1 mv pp, excellent balance.  Could trim coils so totally balance inductance but not till I get one to run. 

Using a A1101 Hall effect into a 2N7000 driver to a IRF1405 output.  Perfect square wave to coil.  with only 12uh measurable inductance, will Still shock the crap out of you if across the coil, have to shunt with diode across coil to keep under contro..  Extended run with it but not quiet running yet.  Even @ 18VDC pulses, core is not saturating....arrggghhhhh.  Anyway, having fun.  Sure wish I had 4 GOOD low u forms! 

To all the folk who want to know how to collect back EMF/kickback...go to Bedini School Girl Forum, Build one of their simple pulse motors, worth a thousand words.   I simply do not have the time to teach right now. 

Picture below.
Ho Ho Ho to all.


Omega_0

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #393 on: December 24, 2009, 09:00:26 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4M-A6Fg3EE

In this recent video of the demo you can see during 15-20 sec mark, a very clear animation of the device. You can see that there are total 16 magnets and 8 coils. If you enable HD mode you may even see the wiring.

Its my guess that only one magnet and one coil should be enough to check if its OU. You don't even need to collect the BEMF back into the power source (cap or battery or anything). Simply assume that you have 90% of energy back every pulse, in your calculation. Thats the first and crudest step. All the best to all of you :)

BTW: In his later video TK has explained the working principle very nicely, read the video description on the right. Strangely he has changed his tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yurZxrKkeo

broli

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #394 on: December 24, 2009, 09:08:09 PM »
Hi GB.

Getting close on my proof of concept motor.  With Honney doooos, running around on Xmas Eve, time is short.  Right now, only have two pairs of magnets N/S orientation top to bottom.  Quad-filiar coil is 180T, each coil on Red form is 560 uH, when in QF mode, only have 12uH total all 4 coils @ 12.5 ohms total on coil.  Core is crap.  Interesting enough, in generator mode only about 1 mv pp, excellent balance.  Could trim coils so totally balance inductance but not till I get one to run. 

Using a A1101 Hall effect into a 2N7000 driver to a IRF1405 output.  Perfect square wave to coil.  with only 12uh measurable inductance, will Still shock the crap out of you if across the coil, have to shunt with diode across coil to keep under contro..  Extended run with it but not quiet running yet.  Even @ 18VDC pulses, core is not saturating....arrggghhhhh.  Anyway, having fun.  Sure wish I had 4 GOOD low u forms! 

To all the folk who want to know how to collect back EMF/kickback...go to Bedini School Girl Forum, Build one of their simple pulse motors, worth a thousand words.   I simply do not have the time to teach right now. 

Picture below.
Ho Ho Ho to all.

The low voltage generation is interesting. I think this is why they said almost 100% cancellation. In practice this is impossible as you need identical magnets and precise component positioning for 100% cancellation. But an advantage of orbo is that the induced emf can be either backwards or forwards to the applied current from battery. This might seem strange but there's some logic behind it. The same reason why EMF cancels in series hooked toroid with opposite windings.

Nice setup btw.

interestedinou

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #395 on: December 24, 2009, 11:22:44 PM »
Here's the link,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8411.msg216551#msg216551

His images are self explanatory, as it shows the path of current during the steps.

Is that the circuit he mentioned that uses the diodes or bridge rectifier to dump the energy back into the battery?

polarman

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #396 on: December 24, 2009, 11:23:19 PM »
 ;D OK   Merry Christmas   ;D    I hope Steorn Is the way!!!

lumen

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #397 on: December 24, 2009, 11:26:30 PM »
k4zep,
Quote
Even @ 18VDC pulses, core is not saturating....arrggghhhhh.

I guess using ferrite from a transformer is not so good?
I was thinking of just making a core using some 1010 steel wire. Just wind it up on a form to make a core of any size.

It should make a core with high permeability and low saturation.
The idea of winding all that copper around it though, just don't sound like that much fun. Not after watching the toroid winding machines on youtube.

 

broli

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #398 on: December 24, 2009, 11:35:51 PM »
The idea of winding all that copper around it though, just don't sound like that much fun. Not after watching the toroid winding machines on youtube.

Amen to that brother. Imagine a world where you can print any device, machine or component. Certain open source 3d printers have just made the baby steps towards that.

PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #399 on: December 24, 2009, 11:37:10 PM »
Is that the circuit he mentioned that uses the diodes or bridge rectifier to dump the energy back into the battery?

It's the only one I've seen posted here. Let me know if you find another. Cool circuit.

broli

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #400 on: December 24, 2009, 11:40:44 PM »
It's the only one I've seen posted here. Let me know if you find another. Cool circuit.

He's talking about the bridge rectifier circuit Steorn is using. I have noticed that some people have missed this fact.

But Steorn has a simple generator on top of the Orbo motor which generates conventional AC which is rectified into DC and fed back into the battery. This is the mechanical energy capturing part.

The circuit I posted is just a way to recycle the inductive energy part of the toroids.

PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #401 on: December 24, 2009, 11:51:00 PM »
Steorn top circuit is probably simple since it's just rectifying from a the coil output, so they only need some low Vf schottky diodes.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #402 on: December 25, 2009, 12:08:42 AM »
Hi All,

Merry Xmas,  Stoern MOTOR ONLY replication is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT6KdUECEqE

It is the most basic drive I could build but it does work, it accelerates and there is NO measurable field around the toroid.

Ben


PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #403 on: December 25, 2009, 12:17:18 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT6KdUECEqE

Nice. I wonder if Steorn's January demos will replace the relays with transistors.

k4zep

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #404 on: December 25, 2009, 12:29:20 AM »
Nice. I wonder if Steorn's January demos will replace the relays with transistors.

Thanks Paul,

There is no reason not to use electronics package except that they are using such a low voltage source for drive motor but a small converter or piggyback front end power supply could fix the electronics package.

It is amazing what you learn (and I am still learning) when you build a motor.  Now to build a nice one!  Will take several weeks to get all parts together, do research on LV coils, etc. Cut plastic, bearings, etc etc etc.  But will build several more.  Probably take several try's to get it going right.

I wondered why I saw sparks on the video of their unit on the 1.5V battery, understand now.  There is a hell of an inductive kickback from the coils, diode takes care of that.

I couldn't have built it without all the input from the many people who post on this list, the videos, the pictures, TK's video. etc., and listening and watching and looking very carefully at what was there.  Nothing like hands on electronics for 55 years.

Merry Xmas, 

Ben