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Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1198015 times)

PaulLowrance

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    • Global Free Energy
Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #285 on: December 22, 2009, 04:57:54 PM »
This post is not to show something that works, but rather to save people time by showing something that does not work. ~ last week I did some quick FEMM sims that showed cop>1, but did not take the time to do the Lua scripts to see for certain. After spending a week to build both the circuit & core I decided late last night to program the Lua script, because I was bored, to see if it really was cop>1. It's not, and here are the Lua scrip results,

--> Total consumed energy (J), Coil current 1 (A), Coil current 2 (A)
--> step 1
--> 0         0         0
--> 3.590518268139885e-006         0.01         0
--> 1.076837942257538e-005         0.02         0
--> 2.152567246223528e-005         0.03         0
--> 3.584987867452422e-005         0.04         0
--> 5.372477637093366e-005         0.05         0
--> 7.513137102932926e-005         0.06000000000000001         0
--> 0.0001000484567827349         0.07000000000000001         0
--> 0.0001284448334048866         0.08         0
--> 0.0001602705060022498         0.09         0
--> 0.0001954735644334508         0.09999999999999999         0
--> 0.0002340151264260043         0.11         0
--> 0.0002759037939155955         0.12         0
--> 0.000321184071531347         0.13         0
--> 0.0003699087571811861         0.14         0
--> 0.0004219585325872816         0.15         0
--> 0.0004768278325109655         0.16         0
--> 0.0005341002916773089         0.17         0
--> 0.0005935602750380198         0.18         0
--> 0.0006550542806126579         0.19         0
--> 0.0007183996895438364         0.2         0
--> 0.0007833678029607461         0.2100000000000001         0
--> 0.000849638268451597         0.2200000000000001         0
--> 0.000916856125808165         0.2300000000000001         0
--> 0.0009847808006294551         0.2400000000000001         0
--> 0.00105325813153989         0.2500000000000001         0
--> 0.001122061956599947         0.2600000000000001         0
--> 0.001191241765222169         0.2700000000000001         0
--> 0.001261180004139531         0.2800000000000001         0
--> 0.001332231676934107         0.2900000000000001         0
--> 0.001404621309551199         0.3000000000000001         0
--> 0.001478619406449006         0.3100000000000001         0
--> 0.001554832704586756         0.3200000000000001         0
--> 0.001633765584116694         0.3300000000000001         0
--> 0.001715480799122064         0.3400000000000001         0
--> 0.001800204919809737         0.3500000000000001         0
--> 0.001888760814127765         0.3600000000000002         0
--> 0.001981598461762843         0.3700000000000002         0
--> 0.002077719403497345         0.3800000000000002         0
--> 0.002175525771451832         0.3900000000000002         0
--> 0.002274293779069949         0.4000000000000002         0
--> 0.002373345530365636         0.4100000000000002         0
--> 0.00247124175808541         0.4200000000000002         0
--> 0.002565131284507889         0.4300000000000002         0
--> 0.002652725622921517         0.4400000000000002         0
--> 0.002733185015652727         0.4500000000000002         0
--> 0.002806758949279388         0.4600000000000002         0
--> 0.002874244030497155         0.4700000000000003         0
--> 0.002936528397946332         0.4800000000000003         0
--> 0.002994408155516128         0.4900000000000003         0
--> 0.003048561354976262         0.5         0
--> step 2
--> 0.003048561354976262         0.5         0
--> 0.003048218629603371         0.5         0.01
--> 0.003046901440529685         0.5         0.02
--> 0.003044600820428306         0.5         0.03
--> 0.00304130623557009         0.5         0.04
--> 0.003037007371840049         0.5         0.05
--> 0.003031692241737806         0.5         0.06000000000000001
--> 0.003025347949716552         0.5         0.07000000000000001
--> 0.003017953642556685         0.5         0.08
--> 0.003009485060872289         0.5         0.09
--> 0.002999937982725136         0.5         0.09999999999999999
--> 0.002989352491663576         0.5         0.11
--> 0.002977823784415115         0.5         0.12
--> 0.002965492795874145         0.5         0.13
--> 0.002952522235045185         0.5         0.14
--> 0.002939048984884102         0.5         0.15
--> 0.002925180703014064         0.5         0.16
--> 0.002910961960634052         0.5         0.17
--> 0.002896439339640948         0.5         0.18
--> 0.00288169003178506         0.5         0.19
--> 0.002866773995889459         0.5         0.2
--> 0.002851705835364595         0.5         0.2100000000000001
--> 0.002836496801753753         0.5         0.2200000000000001
--> 0.002821199139422801         0.5         0.2300000000000001
--> 0.002805914323231121         0.5         0.2400000000000001
--> 0.002790763022889252         0.5         0.2500000000000001
--> 0.002775826338041654         0.5         0.2600000000000001
--> 0.00276111730090713         0.5         0.2700000000000001
--> 0.002746614108469888         0.5         0.2800000000000001
--> 0.002732313346180004         0.5         0.2900000000000001
--> 0.002718231628920937         0.5         0.3000000000000001
--> 0.002704363354715092         0.5         0.3100000000000001
--> 0.002690669446889235         0.5         0.3200000000000001
--> 0.002677107131100328         0.5         0.3300000000000001
--> 0.002663630841766805         0.5         0.3400000000000001
--> 0.002650199186249004         0.5         0.3500000000000001
--> 0.002636790066656773         0.5         0.3600000000000002
--> 0.002623420339089672         0.5         0.3700000000000002
--> 0.002610145485391276         0.5         0.3800000000000002
--> 0.002597003431649619         0.5         0.3900000000000002
--> 0.002583969040181575         0.5         0.4000000000000002
--> 0.002570996225486628         0.5         0.4100000000000002
--> 0.002558050223878575         0.5         0.4200000000000002
--> 0.002545122719095612         0.5         0.4300000000000002
--> 0.002532227943781941         0.5         0.4400000000000002
--> 0.002519386648339695         0.5         0.4500000000000002
--> 0.002506611787103072         0.5         0.4600000000000002
--> 0.00249390789050716         0.5         0.4700000000000003
--> 0.002481275147127483         0.5         0.4800000000000003
--> 0.002468719057056149         0.5         0.4900000000000003
--> 0.002456259951179949         0.5         0.5
--> step 3
--> 0.002456259951179949         0.5         0.5
--> 0.002405462256831358         0.49         0.5
--> 0.002355458742805151         0.48         0.5
--> 0.002306435459827746         0.47         0.5
--> 0.00225867187622482         0.46         0.5
--> 0.002212246444778617         0.45         0.5
--> 0.002167137324896208         0.44         0.5
--> 0.002123287509743938         0.4299999999999999         0.5
--> 0.002080836940309113         0.4199999999999999         0.5
--> 0.00203992480474895         0.4099999999999999         0.5
--> 0.002000456592122689         0.3999999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001962367090143027         0.3899999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001925655869627818         0.3799999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001890374627222772         0.3699999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001856565265365677         0.3599999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001824232824152449         0.3499999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001793384383106103         0.3399999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001764030085054732         0.3299999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001736181959917234         0.3199999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001709854903110935         0.3099999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001685060199176545         0.2999999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001661798506485324         0.2899999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001640058697866304         0.2799999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001619820371196059         0.2699999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001601055982328429         0.2599999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001583726202893427         0.2499999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001567776037983496         0.2399999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001553137170970112         0.2299999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001539726281140034         0.2199999999999998         0.5
--> 0.00152743766576684         0.2099999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001516142172791192         0.1999999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001505685023380846         0.1899999999999997         0.5
--> 0.00149589724165913         0.1799999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001486584960608024         0.1699999999999997         0.5
--> 0.0014775084141841         0.1599999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001468279859006976         0.1499999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001458256342652655         0.1399999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001446958857792624         0.1299999999999997         0.5
--> 0.00143401817733061         0.1199999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001419219477244737         0.1099999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001402793386219292         0.09999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001386012833198309         0.08999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001370035808036354         0.0799999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001354984793985183         0.0699999999999997         0.5
--> 0.00134122842197862         0.0599999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001329225704211848         0.0499999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001319351584153604         0.0399999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001312153481479498         0.02999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001307570024923967         0.01999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001305280879241024         0.009999999999999691         0.5
--> 0.001305148774201166         0         0.5
--> step 4
--> 0.001305148774201166         0         0.5
--> 0.001267742420501036         0         0.49
--> 0.001230923166354812         0         0.48
--> 0.00119461638395876         0         0.47
--> 0.001158801850304672         0         0.46
--> 0.001123467244598066         0         0.45
--> 0.001088541848132292         0         0.44
--> 0.001053931269367919         0         0.4299999999999999
--> 0.001019553489462221         0         0.4199999999999999
--> 0.000985346153571138         0         0.4099999999999999
--> 0.00095128181858739         0         0.3999999999999999
--> 0.000917377609581669         0         0.3899999999999999
--> 0.0008836659869532686         0         0.3799999999999999
--> 0.0008501686788609103         0         0.3699999999999999
--> 0.000816912931046265         0         0.3599999999999999
--> 0.0007839494747557624         0         0.3499999999999999
--> 0.0007513532915734927         0         0.3399999999999999
--> 0.0007192098442373292         0         0.3299999999999999
--> 0.0006876087765101703         0         0.3199999999999998
--> 0.0006566193770842923         0         0.3099999999999998
--> 0.0006262972666842203         0         0.2999999999999998
--> 0.0005966933430658843         0         0.2899999999999998
--> 0.0005678464793179263         0         0.2799999999999998
--> 0.0005397899646925705         0         0.2699999999999998
--> 0.0005125528112680772         0         0.2599999999999998
--> 0.0004861627894751369         0         0.2499999999999998
--> 0.0004606545671803507         0         0.2399999999999998
--> 0.0004360886626383941         0         0.2299999999999998
--> 0.0004125512218290568         0         0.2199999999999998
--> 0.0003900737167018608         0         0.2099999999999997
--> 0.0003686461901923401         0         0.1999999999999997
--> 0.0003482625063669396         0         0.1899999999999997
--> 0.0003289193556166073         0         0.1799999999999997
--> 0.0003106147072878994         0         0.1699999999999997
--> 0.0002933473656752264         0         0.1599999999999997
--> 0.0002771203982077093         0         0.1499999999999997
--> 0.0002619406503524264         0         0.1399999999999997
--> 0.0002478149567788555         0         0.1299999999999997
--> 0.0002347503437721159         0         0.1199999999999997
--> 0.0002227540353909843         0         0.1099999999999997
--> 0.0002118324471779473         0         0.09999999999999969
--> 0.0002019900535321696         0         0.08999999999999969
--> 0.0001932305427804945         0         0.0799999999999997
--> 0.000185557393292687         0         0.0699999999999997
--> 0.000178973818975171         0         0.0599999999999997
--> 0.0001734827006454447         0         0.0499999999999997
--> 0.0001690865569702568         0         0.0399999999999997
--> 0.0001657874929460887         0         0.02999999999999969
--> 0.0001635871365176567         0         0.01999999999999969
--> 0.0001624866310459695         0         0.009999999999999691
--> 0.0001624866310459695         0         0


Basically there are two coils, inner & outer. Both outer coils are one. AC current going through coil 1 will *not* produce AC in coil 2. Same thing goes for the opposite. What this design is about is having coil 2 change the effective permeability of the entire core, which will effect coil 1. So you could think of this as modulated AM broadcasting where one changes the amplitude of the other, but the modulator by itself cannot induce AC without the signal.

In step 1 coil 1 is turned on and left on. step 2 coil 2 is turned on. step 3 coil 1 is turned off thereby collecting its energy. step 4 coil 2 is turned off and energy is collected.

Back to the drawing board.

broli

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #286 on: December 22, 2009, 05:12:42 PM »
PL, I have no clue what you are demonstrating there. But what I was trying to show with the previous circuits was that the orbo can be much more efficient than it currently is. If Steorn claims it's already cop=2 for instance then imagine how much more effecieint it could be if you recycled the inductive energy during the on period.

But even that is unsure since I do not have the equipment to verify this myself. Perhaps I'm all wrong, and the long current maximum is needed. But if it isn't then a lot of electrical energy is waisted by letting the current surf the ohmic limit for quite a time period based on their scope. It would be much more efficient to let all the action happen when the current rise time is still linear. And just when it hits saturation point you open the switches so that the energy flows back to the battery.

Without a decent oscilloscope determining all these parameters can be near impossible.

PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #287 on: December 22, 2009, 05:22:15 PM »
Sean has said repeatedly that the orbo over unity is clearly predicted using classical physics, which is what FEMM uses. For myself, it's best to see something work using FEMM before spending the time & $ to build it.
 

gravityblock

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #288 on: December 22, 2009, 05:27:19 PM »
PL,

This may be a good read for you and others here about the various flux “threading” methods wherein newly created flux lines become “engaged” by the magnetic core without violating Ampere’s Circuital Law.

This improved flux model enables transformer theory to be modeled using the Classical Motional Electric Law (CMEL) ( emf = (v × B ) • L ) as well as Faraday’s Law and New Induction. In fact, it is shown that Faraday’s Law is just a special case of the CMEL and not a stand alone model of nature.

http://www.distinti.com/docs/classfluxan.pdf

GB

IceStorm

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #289 on: December 22, 2009, 05:34:15 PM »
So, according to you, you can take a coil and use it as an electromagnet without it draining the battery?  I don't think so, lol.  We're not talking about transformers here.  These are two different things we're talking about.

The motor in my example where the coil is continuously energized from the battery is our control experiment to let us know how long the battery can maintain the system at a certain RPM with a continuous output from the battery.

I guarantee you that it takes energy to run a conventional motor at idle speed with no external load on it that is greater than the small loss due to the resistance of the wire.  Even when it's at idle speed, it is converting electrical energy into mechanical energy and this mechanical energy produces a CEMF that is against the EMF driving the motor and this increases the amount of energy that is consumed way above the small losses due to the resistance of the wire.


GB

Im tired a bit to repeat because you don't know enough in electronic and you don't seem to want to put some time to learn something. I told you that with a Ideal inductor , if you put a sine wave across it , the battery in a perfect world will get back what it put in , its not mysterious , its classical EE. IN real world there loss . I told you too that a rotoverter was a good example about a no load motor, do a simple search, there people who run motor at full idle speed (NO LOAD, I REPEAT, NO LOAD) for only 15/20 Watt with a simple modification to get more VARS, do you know what is VARS ?????. A motor with no LOAD don't show ANYTHING about how much torque it has VS power consumption , you need a load at it shaft.

Look again at this site, its in the middle of the page, http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html there a PERFECT example of what i told you yesterday you will see what happen with a pure inductive load(ideal one) ALL GET BACK.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

billmehess

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #290 on: December 22, 2009, 05:39:29 PM »
This is all such total noncense!!!! Charge up a cap with the battery, remove the battery and see how long Orbo (rymes with horrible) will run before it stops running just off the cap.
This is a battery running a small motor- NOTHING MORE!!!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 07:17:15 PM by billmehess »

gravityblock

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #291 on: December 22, 2009, 06:02:28 PM »
Im tired a bit to repeat because you don't know enough in electronic and you don't seem to want to put some time to learn something. I told you that with a Ideal inductor , if you put a sine wave across it , the battery in a perfect world will get back what it put in , its not mysterious , its classical EE. IN real world there loss . I told you too that a rotoverter was a good example about a no load motor, do a simple search, there people who run motor at full idle speed (NO LOAD, I REPEAT, NO LOAD) for only 15/20 Watt with a simple modification to get more VARS, do you know what is VARS ?????. A motor with no LOAD don't show ANYTHING about how much torque it has VS power consumption , you need a load at it shaft.

Look again at this site, its in the middle of the page, http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html there a PERFECT example of what i told you yesterday you will see what happen with a pure inductive load(ideal one) ALL GET BACK.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

You're confusing the issue.  Energy and power are not the same.  I could trickle a small current from a battery to a heavy load and it won't have any power, but the battery is expending it's energy source (the small current doesn't have a force on the load).  Since energy is a scalar quantity and we're dealing with scalar quantities for power calculation, it is missing the vector quantity associated with a force; as such it is only a simplification. Trying to infer unknown vector equations from scalar models is problematic at best.  The rules of nature explains the problems and difficulties encountered when attempting to deduce answers from conservation of energy techniques, http://www.distinti.com/docs/ron.pdf

Maybe you need to put some time into learning what is correct from what is not correct.

GB
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 06:57:07 PM by gravityblock »

powercat

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #292 on: December 22, 2009, 06:05:43 PM »

lumen

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #293 on: December 22, 2009, 06:29:17 PM »
Quote
From TK
hmmmtoroid_4c

Well, this shows the effect does exist.
The problem with using ferrite is you need to know which ferrite you are using.
Ferrite used in typical transformers will have an extremely high saturation point because this is good for transformers.
The ferrite that should work best would have a low saturation point. Or possibly not even use ferrite.

IceStorm

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #294 on: December 22, 2009, 06:54:54 PM »
You're confusing the issue.  Energy and power are not the same.  I could trickle a small current from a battery to a heavy load and it won't have any power, but the battery is expending it's energy source.  Since energy is a scalar quantity and we're dealing with scalar quantities for power calculation, it is missing the vector quantity associated with a force; as such it is only a simplification. Trying to infer unknown vector equations from scalar models is problematic at best.  The rules of nature explains the problems and difficulties encountered when attempting to deduce answers from conservation of energy techniques, http://www.distinti.com/docs/ron.pdf

Maybe you need to put some time into learning what is correct from what is not correct.

GB



I sound like you like to mix thing but look at your question you asked me :

.... 
A coil is a load on the battery, is it not?
....

GB

My answer is still the same, NO , a coil is not a load because the reactive power is equal to the apparent power with a sine wave input so the true power will always be 0W IF its a ideal inductor, like i said in real world there always loss with the inductor since the wire is not a superconductor. Don't mix thing , i don't talk about motor i talk about inductor, your question is "IS A COIL A LOAD?". Do i need to past the link again so you can understand what we talk about again ? http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html

Best Regards,
IceStorm

plengo

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #295 on: December 22, 2009, 06:55:20 PM »
Freezer:

You can't just "pluck 'radiant energy' out of thin air" to advance your argument.  Sean says that more power is being returned to the battery by the return wire that connects to the battery.

Actually I did do the experiments.  I made the measurements that show that the energy in a pulse discharge from an inductor is less than or nearly equal to the battery energy that energized the inductor in the first place.  That means that Bedini's "radiant energy" is B.S.  I read his 1984 "Kromrey Convertor" 15-page treatise and I almost puked from how little sense he made when discussing electricity and batteries.

So why don't YOU do the experiments.  Hook up any Bedini motor or Joule Thief or whatever your favourite flavour of pulsing inductor circuit you want and measure the power supplied by the battery compared to the power you get from the pulsing inductor.  In all cases you will find the output power is less than the input power, and you produce heat.  The output power plus the heat will equal the input power.  "Radiant energy" is just a buzz word to get you excited and induce you to believe in something that's not there.  You can prove for yourself that it is not there if you really want to.

MileHigh

While you say the BEMF is less or close to equal to source energy that energize the coil is obvious, Bedini says that too.

Bedini clearly states in his forums at yahoo group and videos that there is NOTHING special about his SSGs and motors except that the "magic" happens in the battery. He states that the front end (the circuits) are totally common EE concepts but there is also some anoumalies presented but the battery is the OU creator.

One can easily test the load and charge process and see that there is not enough current going into the battery that could explain the charge being presented. Also the battery capacity increases with time. I know because I have done it over 200 times and it is thruth.

I would think if you tested his motors you should know that!

Fausto.

gravityblock

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #296 on: December 22, 2009, 07:08:09 PM »


I sound like you like to mix thing but look at your question you asked me :

My answer is still the same, NO , a coil is not a load because the reactive power is equal to the apparent power with a sine wave input so the true power will always be 0W IF its a ideal inductor, like i said in real world there always loss with the inductor since the wire is not a superconductor. Don't mix thing , i don't talk about motor i talk about inductor, your question is "IS A COIL A LOAD?". Do i need to past the link again so you can understand what we talk about again ? http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html

Best Regards,
IceStorm

You know in the examples I gave you that the coils would be expending energy in order to generate mechanical motion, thus a load.  You can't obtain mechanical energy without converting the electrical energy.  Even at an idle speed, the battery is losing quite a bit of energy due to the CEMF above and beyond the losses due to the resistance of the wire .

ENERGY AND POWER ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

PaulLowrance

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #297 on: December 22, 2009, 07:17:04 PM »
From TK
hmmmtoroid_4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yurZxrKkeo

Thanks. That's about the only TK video I've seen that's void of strong skeptic opinions while containing useful data.

Anyhow, that effect is easily seen in FEMM.

IceStorm

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #298 on: December 22, 2009, 07:23:03 PM »
You know in the examples I gave you that the coils would be expending energy in order to generate mechanical motion, thus a load.  You can't obtain mechanical energy without converting the electrical energy.  Even at an idle speed, the battery is losing quite a bit of energy due to the CEMF above and beyond the losses due to the resistance of the wire .

ENERGY AND POWER ARE NOT THE SAME THING!, so go take your power factor and through it out the window, because it is irrelevant in the examples I mentioned.

I told you to look at the rotoverter, there people who get same idle speed , 200/300 watt input at idle  become 15/20 watt for the same idle speed, you just need to change the power factor, THERE plenty of example all around the web, just ask Ash , he is a expert in that field. But we are not talking about TORQUE here , we talk about idle RPM as you said in your first post.So what is irrelevant is you comparison of 2 motor with NO LOAD on the shaft who mean ABSOLUTELY nothing about the torque it can give. What is important is the torque it can give for X power input, that's all , stop wasting your time with your idle speed comparison. you asked me a question to know if a coil is a LOAD and now you move onto something else loll at least i took time to answer both.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

gravityblock

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #299 on: December 22, 2009, 07:30:30 PM »
I told you to look at the rotoverter, there people who get same idle speed , 200/300 watt input at idle  become 15/20 watt for the same idle speed, you just need to change the power factor, THERE plenty of example all around the web, just ask Ash , he is a expert in that field. But we are not talking about TORQUE here , we talk about idle RPM as you said in your first post.So what is irrelevant is you comparison of 2 motor with NO LOAD on the shaft who mean ABSOLUTELY nothing about the torque it can give. What is important is the torque it can give for X power input, that's all , stop wasting your time with your idle speed comparison. you asked me a question to know if a coil is a LOAD and now you move onto something else loll at least i took time to answer both.

Best Regards,
IceStorm

I never said anything about Power or torque in my example.  I also never said the motors in my example were rotoverters.  My example was meant to figure out how long it would take a battery to discharge in a controlled experiment at a certain RPM.  It is the same as putting a resistor on a fully charged cap and seeing how long it takes to discharge across the resistor.  My example is a good way to figure out how much energy is in the battery so you can make a mechanical comparison instead of an electrical comparison.  Obviously you missed the entire point.  It is possible to have mechanical OU without having electrical OU.  If this is the case, then there may be methods and techniques to convert this mechanical OU into electrical OU or to improve upon the already electrical OU.  My method would be a good indicator if it is achieving its maximum electrical potential and if not, by how much it could possibly be improved upon.  Everyone focuses on electrical OU and forgets about mechanical OU.  You can have mechanical OU and still not be able to recharge a battery or capacitor if this additional mechanical energy isn't converted to electrical energy.

GB
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 08:12:48 PM by gravityblock »