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Author Topic: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM  (Read 1197691 times)

ResinRat2

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #120 on: December 16, 2009, 02:15:00 PM »
All I know is that they completed the big hooha testing with all the scientific bigshot experts. As reported here on Steorn's own website:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/14683/randd/steorns-free-energy-device-goes-on-display

Right there it says in black and white:

'In fact, following an invitation to the science community to examine the technology, an international panel of 22 experts, headed by Ian McDonald, professor of electrical engineering at University of Alberta, Canada, said that demonstrations “have not shown the production of energy”.
"The unanimous verdict of the jury is that Steorn's attempts to demonstrate the claim have not shown the production of energy. The jury is therefore ceasing work," said McDonald in an online post in June 2009."'

So the whole show is over. What the heck are these guys doing this for anyway?
What a bunch of fools. I really feel sorry for those who actually invested money in their antics.


PaulLowrance

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #121 on: December 16, 2009, 02:46:42 PM »
Someone in the inner Steorn circle emailed me the reason why Steorn has not made this demonstration obvious over-unity. I don't have the right to post this information, I promised, but at least wanted to write this  much.  :( I don't know if I buy the reason, but we'll see.

PaulLowrance

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2009, 05:19:00 PM »
Someone took a photo of the guys tachometer readings.

PaulLowrance

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2009, 05:29:24 PM »
See the attached images. Here's what I can see,

First column:
14?2   ?
1201
1190 or 1490   ??
1232
.
.
.

Second column:
1235? ???
1624??? or 624???
?
447?
789? or 489?
423
4?4 (464?)
455
462?
712?
.
.
.

Third column:
?
6??
732?
?
428? 928?
987
1???
?
?
43?   ?
983?
771?
925?
?

Fourth column:
456?
59?   ??
?


Attached are two images, the same, except one is sharpened.

PaulLowrance

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #124 on: December 16, 2009, 05:37:55 PM »
Some of the readings are clear, so you can get the gist that the rpm's fluctuate up & down a lot. That is extremely unusual, as that should not happen if it was just a battery & conventional electric motor.

lumen

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #125 on: December 16, 2009, 06:19:05 PM »
Hmmm....... I just realized this may be working on a totally different principal than a pulse motor.
They are using toroidal coils!
My theory is that the rotor is attracted to the core of the toroidal coils. Then they saturate the core with the windings to eliminate or reduce the attraction, and the rotor magnets are free leave with less energy than they gained during the attraction.
Like the magnetic amplifier principal.

Any thoughts?


PaulLowrance

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #126 on: December 16, 2009, 06:22:37 PM »
Hmmm....... I just realized this may be working on a totally different principal than a pulse motor.
They are using toroidal coils!
My theory is that the rotor is attracted to the core of the toroidal coils. Then they saturate the core with the windings to eliminate or reduce the attraction, and the rotor magnets are free leave with less energy than they gained during the attraction.
Like the magnetic amplifier principal.

Any thoughts?

A lot of my magnetic designs are based on the premise of changing the cores effective permeability.  :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PaulLowrance

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #127 on: December 16, 2009, 11:21:13 PM »
@hartiberlin

 I did see something about the magnetic field configuration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=en-GB&v=K2eL-NlMtSI&feature=related

Here someone replicated the Steorn Toy, but called it the "90 Degree Magnet Rule".

To me it looks like a gate.

Hmm,
but that is not an official Steorn movie, but only a tinkerer, who
thinks that it is this effect.
Steorn to my knowledge has not yet explained,
where the additional magnetic energy comes from or
how they extract it.
They only showed these 2 new videos,
where one could see, that it is a pulse-motor with some
pickup generator coils, but they have not yet explained,
how exactly they generate more energy via the pickup coils,
than they input via the motor coils.

Or did they already state that somehow ?

I really would love to see the input current into the motor
coils on a few scopeshots on a calibrated shunt and scope and
the output voltages and currents
of the pickup coils.
Then one could really say, what is going on in this motor/generator.

The way they show it now is only a big publicity stunt with no real data..

Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #128 on: December 16, 2009, 11:42:40 PM »
I had a closer look to the video and
saw this Roth Elektronik Germany board RE901.

Here they are using this circuit PCB board  for their circuit:

http://ch.farnell.com/roth-elektronik/re901/laborkarte-smd-sot-23-multi/dp/1172113


http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13633.pdf

It is a multisolution SMD pcb board, which can hold several SMD devices.

Regards, Stefan.

Staffman

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2009, 11:51:37 PM »
Hmmm....... I just realized this may be working on a totally different principal than a pulse motor.
They are using toroidal coils!
My theory is that the rotor is attracted to the core of the toroidal coils. Then they saturate the core with the windings to eliminate or reduce the attraction, and the rotor magnets are free leave with less energy than they gained during the attraction.
Like the magnetic amplifier principal.

Any thoughts?

Very interesting observation. That may be easy to test.

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #130 on: December 17, 2009, 12:30:47 AM »
I had another closer look in fullcreen to this video of Steorn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JikYfmEdF8

They have used really Toroidal-Ferrite coils  as Motor-Drive coils.
So as there are magnets inside the rotor,
the rotor is accelerated without any current input into the
direction of the ferrite toroid coils.

Then when the magnets arrive exactly over the toroidal ferrite core coils,
these coils are pulsed by a Reed Switch from the battery,
see:

http://www.steorn.com/demo/rig/
Part Number 23

and then repelled, so the rotor can rotate on.

One interesting fact here is, that these toroidal ferrite core coils
normally have their magnet fields completely inside the ferrite core
and only leakage flux is coming out of them..
so the rotor will probably have not much torque,
cause this will not repell strongly the rotor magnets.

Also the mechanical Reed switching of the input current will
probably wear down the Reed Switch pretty fast, as the BACKEMF
of the toroidal coils
also goes through the Reed Switch and will
spark a bit inside the Reed Switch.
Also the rotation RPM is thus not very fast, because the mechanical Reed Switch
could probably switch not faster than about 30 to 50 Hz or so...

So the Motor part is not very powerful in torque and not very durable
cause the Reed switch will wear out pretty soon.

On this  Roth Elektronik RE901 PCB board there seems to be
soldered also only a SMD diode,
cause only 2 connections are used.

It seems to be only the blocking diode,so that
the current from the battery will not flow through the
pickup coils, but this diode will only conduct during the
induction spike of the pickup coils recharging the Ansman 10.000 mAh
NiMh accumulator battery.


So all in all it is a pretty easy to build pulse motor
and should be easy to replicate and measure the
input and output currents.

The only effect I could see is, that they use the toroidal ferrite core
coils for the driver part, which could behave stangely,
cause the magnet will also induce current into them,
when they go by and this could reduce the input current...

But how much could only be measured via a scope on a shunt
resistor.

Gruss, Stefan.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 04:11:51 AM by hartiberlin »

Staffman

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #131 on: December 17, 2009, 02:16:56 AM »
@all

I just did a small test. Not with a toroid but very similar. I took three neo magnets (1/4 inch diameter by 3 inches in length) and three 1/2 inch ball bearings. I then made a triangle with them making sure the poles all attracted. This cancelled the magnetic field (detected by the outside) of the neo magnets. Once the triangle was broken the field came back.

[Quick note... at the junction between the neos and the bearings due to size differences there was a small attraction to the neo by the iron nail I used to the sharp edge of the neo. Yeah, not quite a toroid but you get the point.]

I think this may be what they are doing with the toroids. With no current going to the toroid, the magnets on the rotor attract to the toroid. When the toroid is powered the rotor magnets are no longer attracted.

Does anyone have a toroid to test with? I may have something, an iron pipe that I could cut, but I'm going to have to get some higher gauge wire(36 awg will break on me).

EDIT: Just grabbed a magnet to see if it would attract to the steel ball bearings on the triangle. Yes, it still attracts. I'm going to try making a toroid coil tomorrow to see if this theory pans out.

lumen

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #132 on: December 17, 2009, 02:53:54 AM »
Now for the arrangement of the double rows of rotor magnets.
There are two rotors and each rotor has two rows of magnets.

My opinion would be that it would be the most effective if the top row of each rotor would be "N" out and the bottom row would be "S" out.
This would yield the most draw to the toroidal core material. (probably ferrite with low saturation)

The coil should cause the field in the toroid to be in a direction where after the magnets pass, the field is in the direction that would push on each of the passing magnets.
It would not actually be pushing but the opposing direction would yield the greatest rejection of any attraction to the passing magnet.

I guess it all seems fairly clear how it should actually work. (and be OU?)


lumen

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Re: Steorn - it's all a matter of days away!!!
« Reply #133 on: December 17, 2009, 03:25:04 AM »
Looks like Steorn put out a new learning module that is very close to the working concept!

http://www.steorn.com/skdb/e-learning/flash-promo/3.1/index.html

hartiberlin

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Re: STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM
« Reply #134 on: December 17, 2009, 04:08:29 AM »
Another thing I just realized, when again looking at the video is,
that the generator magnets are located  90 degrees out of phase versus the motor magnets
inside the rotor.

So this makes sure, that motor and generator pulses are not occuring at the same
time but are occurring after each other in time.

So by putting a 1 Ohm shunt resistor onto the plus pole of the battery, it should
be visible on a scope , if the average current out of the battery is positive or negative
over one cycle...
If it will be negative, then surely this Orbo is overunity.

If the integration area is positive over one cycle then the Orbo is underunity.
(in this case heating losses I^2xR of the coils neglected..)