We can use a counter rotating coaxial motor from a RC helicopter to drive our HPG.  Since the discs will be counter rotating, the counter force will be in opposite directions and canceling out this unwanted force.  This RC helicopter would be good choice because of it's long axle which would accommodate the length of the cylinder magnet and discs, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB3zzxgfMQI

Also, the voltage of both discs are naturally connected in series to increase the voltage.  The long cylinder magnet can be made up of many smaller magnets.  I have already tested this with many magnets forming a long cylinder magnet and the highest voltage potential was when the stationary external circuit at the rim was in the middle of the magnets.  The length of the cylinder magnet can be viewed as being a large single radii magnet.  Increasing the radii of the disc and magnet also increases the voltage.


GB

how do you get them to counter rotate?

i like the concept, but wouldn't the drag be induced into the rotation of the individual disc, and not the mechanism that keeps both moving?

i might have looked at it wrong, but i like the direction this is going in

Those are good questions.  The props on the helicopter are counter rotating.  How do they do this?  My best guess is to have a separate motor for each prop.  If this is the case, then the drag will be against each motor and we're out of luck as you suggested.

We need to find a way where the linkage connecting the disc and drive mechanism together will take the drag and not the disc or drive mechanism itself.  I am almost certain the drag in the HPG can be defeated mechanically and your original design in keeping the discs upright suggests this also.

The important thing about using a cylinder magnet is it's more practical to have a 6 ft long cylinder magnet including the radii of its face, than to have a single 6 ft radii magnet (12 ft diameter).  The large mass of the cylinder magnet doesn't even need to be rotated.  Where are you going to find a 12 ft. diameter neo magnet and at what cost if you do find one?  The cylinder magnet can always be made up of smaller magnets in order to achieve the desired radii.  The voltage in a HPG is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field, the rpm, and the radii of the magnet/disc.

I'll keep thinking,

GB

Why do you think so? A counter force will apply to each disk separately. There is no reason they cancel.

Did you read my last post?  If you did, then you would realize I already came to this conclusion since there are two different drive mechanisms, thus a counter force to each disk and axle separately.

If the axle is rotating the disc, then the counter force on the disc is transferred to the axle which is against it's rotation.  Keep the counter force on the disc from transferring to the drive axle, then there is no counter force against the rotation of the system.

GB

@broli:

Take your time in your analysis.

@exnihiloest:

Watch the helicopter video.  Around the 4 minute mark in the video you can see how the helicopter rotates on it's axis.  This is due to one prop spinning faster than the other prop.  When both props are counter rotating at the same speed, the helicopter doesn't rotate on it's axis because the torque of the outer prop cancels the torque of the inner prop and vice versa, thus the torque doesn't get transferred through the axle to the helicopter.

When one prop is rotating faster than the other prop, then the slower prop doesn't cancel all of the force from the faster prop and the helicopter will rotate on it's axis due to there being an unequal force that is transferred through the axle to the helicopter.  The same principal should apply to the counter force, as long as the counter rotating discs are rotating at the same speed then the counter forces should be canceled and not transferred through the axle.


GB

GB,

I don't like to be the barer of bad news. But after careful scrutiny I discovered and unaccounted force. The left disc will have a back torque due to the right part of the magnet and the right disc will have a back torque due to the left side of the magnet. So far I have not been able to find a combination to cancel these out. If you like we can chat live on your place of choice.

Of course the ultimate confirmation is the experiment. All you do is check if it works like a motor, if it does then it means when it works as a generator it has a back torque.

the only other way ive been able to alter counter torque is gravity, for if a magnet is being lifted straight up in the presence of inductors, the "weight" increases, because the pull from gravity is compounded with the opposing lenz drag

likewise a magnet being pushed in a downward direction in the presence of inductors appears to be "lighter" as gravity is now fighting the drag

i used to think this is what caused part of the back torque, because the faster they spun, the more of a difference in weight they became, thus making it more off balanced and harder to spin

so sometimes ive looked at it as something that gets heavier when lifted, and lighter as it falls, and im trying to figure out a way to make that do some work for me, or cancel themselves out

so much to think about, so many good ideas floating around here recently

Here's a different perspective to help in the visualization.  Right disc is negative and left disc is positive.  Left Side of outside circuit is negative and right side of outside circuit is positive.  I may have the polarity reversed, but what ever the polarities are on the disc, the external circuit will have an opposite polarity.

I have a hard time putting my thoughts on paper.  What is in my head and what I put on paper doesn't always match.

You know me, always making things more complicated than they are, lol.  I guess it still works as a motor, so the counter torque will still be there.

GB