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Author Topic: Ultracaps tested for excess energy  (Read 209739 times)

Pirate88179

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #195 on: December 07, 2009, 11:51:15 PM »
Paul:

Excellent work man!  This is a very good beginning to our understanding of these b-cap properties.  Thank you again.

Bill

electricme

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #196 on: December 08, 2009, 12:12:05 AM »
@MrMag,

Repair radios, TV's, you name it, from a very early age. I remember when I was around 8 yrs. old building my cat whisker receiver. Probably have a hell of a time doing it now. :)

Another early starter, beautiful  :D

@ IST,
Could you please post the same image as the one on thread page 18, but put 2 side by side.
I have a reason, and will explain it when I see them.
I would do this myself but don't know how.

jim

innovation_station

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #197 on: December 08, 2009, 12:23:57 AM »
jim yes i will post some scope shots ...

i have better ones to discribe this in great deatail ..

i can post if you like and we can walk through it ...

perhaps it deserves it own topic...


if some one will make it i will post there might  be better to put it ..

as this is important truth ...

w



electricme

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #198 on: December 08, 2009, 12:26:47 AM »
@ Paul,

A good result I see, well done sir.

jim

PaulLowrance

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #199 on: December 08, 2009, 12:46:08 AM »
Hi,

Here's the circuits. Hopefully there's no mistakes in the drawings.

Remember, the pins shown in the parallel port photo are as it appears directly from your computer, *not* from the cable. So you'll have to do some mirroring to figure out the correct pins.

The top circuit is what I used to measure the voltage directly across the UC. The 2nd circuit I used to measure the UC current during the charging phase. The 3rd circuit I used to measure the UC current during the discharging phase.

You can place the op-amp resistors to meet your requirements, depending how much gain you would like. Or if only need a 1-1 input from 0 to +5V, then you don't need to op-amps and you can go directly to the ADC chip.
 
You can use your favorite op-amps. I have a zillion op-amps, and it's funny to me because the LM741 worked just fine.

I used 12V for V+, and -12V for V-.  And +5V for the ADC0809 and 555 timer. BTW, you could easily get a much much better ADC for probably the same price, but this is the only one I could find at home. Somewhere around here I have a very expensive 170MHz 12bit ADC, but can't find it.

People can request the software exe file via email. That way I can always email them an update if there's a bug or additions. Give me a day to make sure it works on non MS Visual Studio PC's who might not have the required DLL's since it's not a static DLL build.

Regards,
Paul

ZathEros

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2009, 02:39:35 AM »
Just a reminder to the naysayers-
The second law of thermodynamics that many cling so tightly to, were based on hydraulic circuits assuming a closed system.
Period.
Electrical / electronic circuits can at times assume a closed system as well, but the problem comes in where electromagnetic waves go beyond the confines of the conductor and interact with the environment. Resonant tank circuits can entrain the magnetic field of the earth and or the vacuum and produce these effects.
At this point the second law of thermodynamics no longer applies.
This interaction with the environment is the primary source of  over unity gain phenomena.
Any AM transmitter is proof of this, RF engineers have known this for many years.

another fun experiment to try is take two of the identical caps (same size and voltage rating)  measure the capacitance with a reliable meter and record the value for each.
charge one cap up to its full level record the voltage. you can now calculate the charge contained in the cap in coulombs. now briefly connect the second cap to the first in paralell so that the voltage equalizes between the two.
now measure the voltage in each cap and calculate the charge in each cap.
generally you will wind up with more charge than you started with.

kind regards,
zatheros

MileHigh

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #201 on: December 08, 2009, 03:12:55 AM »
ZathEros:

I think that you are missing on some subtleties with respect to science and the second law.

I think that "closed system" vs. "open system" concept is interpreted to liberally sometimes and can be applied out of context.

Electromagnetic waves and the environment are all part of a single whole system.  So if a system is radiating electromagnetic radiation into space or receiving electromagnetic radiation from space, then that is all part of the entire system that you are looking at. Therefore all of the energy balances in the system, you can't ignore the EM effects.  Therefore the laws of thermodynamics do apply here.

If you interact with the environment and absorb energy from it, that is not an over unity gain phenomena.  Take the example of a solar panel.  It's not OU, it's just taking advantage of the power source of the sun and harvesting some of the available energy.  The sun will eventually run out of fuel and then you get nothing from your solar array.

An AM transmitter is like a miniature sun.  It follows all of the laws of thermodynamics.  Solar energy -> plants -> fossil fuel -> oil-fired electrical plant -> electrical amplifier -> electromagnetic transmitting antenna radiating energy into space.   That transmitting energy originally came from the sun, and the sun's energy came from the thermonuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium.  It is as simple as that.

For your capacitor experiment there is nothing special also.  A small amount of charge at a high potential can be turned into a larger amount of charge at a lower potential and energy is conserved.  You actually loose 1/2 of the energy in the after case in your experiment.  The interesting thing is for both the before case and the after case, the actual net charge on the capacitor or capacitors is actually zero.

MileHigh

PaulLowrance

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #202 on: December 08, 2009, 04:46:23 AM »
Not that it matters much, but R7 in my charging circuit was 1.86 ohms, and R7 in the discharging circuit was 0.100 ohms.

The current & voltage graph are merely the ADC output. Technically the current graph is just the voltage across either the 1.86 ohm or 0.100 ohm resistor. During the discharge phase the voltage across the 0.100 ohm resistor starts off slightly higher than the voltage across the 1.86 ohm resistor in the charging phase, but the resistance is 18.6 times less, so the current is 18.6 times higher.

Paul

electricme

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #203 on: December 08, 2009, 05:59:33 AM »
@ Paul,

Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.

This is going to be one of the tools I will be using in my quest for OU, it truly will be.
We will all owe you a lot Paul, you are a treassure indeed.

My email addy is to the left here if you would email me the software when ready.

jim
 

gadgetmall

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #204 on: December 08, 2009, 02:54:15 PM »
One of My heater circuits has been running two weeks now . The run battery started at 1.355 and the Bcap started at .5 . in approximatly 19 hours the bcap reached 1.800 volts .  the remaining power in the battery is 1.301 as of today / cap is holding its own at 1.801  I then hooked a 1.2 volt flashlight bulb in series from pos to pos  after that two weeks ago y with a screw in socket for about 30 minuits every few days . The battery charges slowley and and the bcap discharges even slower . so today the battery is 1.301 and the cap is 1.8 volts after two weeks  and about 5 jumps thru the flashlight bulb . After the OU control Circuitry is built this will work as i proved without a doubt in my mind that this circuit will hold its own and self run .  Stick that in you Head Scientist !!

Albert

innovation_station

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #205 on: December 08, 2009, 03:14:08 PM »
One of My heater circuits has been running two weeks now . The run battery started at 1.355 and the Bcap started at .5 . in approximatly 19 hours the bcap reached 1.800 volts .  the remaining power in the battery is 1.301 as of today / cap is holding its own at 1.801  I then hooked a 1.2 volt flashlight bulb in series from pos to pos  after that two weeks ago y with a screw in socket for about 30 minuits every few days . The battery charges slowley and and the bcap discharges even slower . so today the battery is 1.301 and the cap is 1.8 volts after two weeks  and about 5 jumps thru the flashlight bulb . After the OU control Circuitry is built this will work as i proved without a doubt in my mind that this circuit will hold its own and self run .  Stick that in you Head Scientist !!

Albert

ooouuucchh ...

that one hurts too ...  the truth and facts are damm hard to beat ..

thank you gadget!

w

i herd someone mention the young effect ...  well .. lol   who knows what is actially takeing place ...

reminds me of a spark gap and wires off into space .....  and simply a diffrance in potencial of 2 places ...

PaulLowrance

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #206 on: December 08, 2009, 04:14:17 PM »
Hi Albert,

Sounds amazing! Is this the same circuit you showed me about 3 or 4 weeks ago?

Looking forward to seeing a self-runner!

Paul

PaulLowrance

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #207 on: December 08, 2009, 04:16:00 PM »
Albert,

BTW, I would like to replicate your best JT circuit today. Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Paul

gadgetmall

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #208 on: December 08, 2009, 04:38:45 PM »
Albert,

BTW, I would like to replicate your best JT circuit today. Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Paul
Pau . i use a goldmine 5/1 dollar 1 inch toroid  a 2n2222a metal can transistor  a 2.2k resistor 1/4 watt and a mini 10k pot . # 26 or #24 wire , two wires abot 15 inches wound together 11 turns ,center tap , and 22 turns secondary for the lights . Also i use a germanium diode on the collector to collect the power and the emitter is negative  connections  to battery and bcap . You should see adjustable  volts from 5 to 21 volts from that CE junction . I have not hooked up My new scope to see is there are any anomalies  like  bemf Spikes yet but i suspect there  are some higher that the DVM readings as indicated in other researchers scope shots of that junction .
OOPS forgot i use a 68 pf disk cap across the resistor also . this lowers the input a lot by changing the frequency of oscillations . You can experiment with this with different tank caps . In the past i connect the disk cap across the pot and make a real tank but this way i did it here is considered standard by the JT group .

Albert

PaulLowrance

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #209 on: December 08, 2009, 04:56:30 PM »
Pau . i use a goldmine 5/1 dollar 1 inch toroid  a 2n2222a metal can transistor  a 2.2k resistor 1/4 watt and a mini 10k pot . # 26 or #24 wire , two wires abot 15 inches wound together 11 turns ,center tap , and 22 turns secondary for the lights . Also i use a germanium diode on the collector to collect the power and the emitter is negative  connections  to battery and bcap . You should see adjustable  volts from 5 to 21 volts from that CE junction . I have not hooked up My new scope to see is there are any anomalies  like  bemf Spikes yet but i suspect there  are some higher that the DVM readings as indicated in other researchers scope shots of that junction .
OOPS forgot i use a 68 pf disk cap across the resistor also . this lowers the input a lot by changing the frequency of oscillations . You can experiment with this with different tank caps . In the past i connect the disk cap across the pot and make a real tank but this way i did it here is considered standard by the JT group .

Albert

That's great that you use very common parts that most people have. I have everything you mention. My Ge diode is 1N34A. How would you describe the permeability of your toroid-- ultra high, high, medium, low, or ultra low, etc.?

BTW, anyone who wants a bookmark page of my data logger circuit w/ UC slow charge / fast discharge experiment can go here,

http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/12/08/ultracapacitor-experiment/

Regards,
Paul