BTW, if it's not COP>1, then no need for alarm. If it is COP>1, then please quickly spread the word just to be certain this information is not squashed!

Regards,
Paul

Paul  . Just for the sake of curiosity . If your Experiment show < 1 this means that using a steady current and volts  may not be the same as a frequency / pulsed DC i get from the CE junction , correct ? It may charge Different on the Jt junction than a power suppy ?
So what do the number tell you as of right now ?
IF you dare -Good or bad

Broli,

If this method of slow charge & fast discharge is COP>1, then it might be difficult to get these UC's at a good price. Stefan started a cool thread on how to makes UC's. There's a guy at another forum that's been making DIY UC's comparable to the maxwell boostcaps.

BTW, I'm more interested in obvious COP>1. If by chance I post that it's COP>1, then please trust me it is obviously COP>1.

If it's COP>1, then I hope people spread the news by Internet & email & even live chat sites, but probably more importantly by phone. So if it's COP>1, then please call all of your OU friends. Web pages can be taken down at the drop of a hat. Doesn't hurt to be prepared. 

If COP>1 then of course this would not be the smoking gun since it's not a self-runner, but it wouldn't take much to make it a self-runner circuit.

Paul

BTW, for any newcomers, the data logger has two channels. It's logging the voltage directly across the UC (Ultracapacitor) and the current that flows directly into the UC.

The charge current has been a bit over 22mA.

Paul

Broli,

If this method of slow charge & fast discharge is COP>1, then it might be difficult to get these UC's at a good price. Stefan started a cool thread on how to makes UC's. There's a guy at another forum that's been making DIY UC's comparable to the maxwell boostcaps.

BTW, I'm more interested in obvious COP>1. If by chance I post that it's COP>1, then please trust me it is obviously COP>1.

If it's COP>1, then I hope people spread the news by Internet & email & even live chat sites, but probably more importantly by phone. So if it's COP>1, then please call all of your OU friends. Web pages can be taken down at the drop of a hat. Doesn't hurt to be prepared. 

If COP>1 then of course this would not be the smoking gun since it's not a self-runner, but it wouldn't take much to make it a self-runner circuit.

Paul

Paul we are already on it ! . Our little group has the circuit layout and getting factory boards made . Please visit second stage joule thief for our progress . We are ready to put it together . I already know it self runs with a simple jump thru a 1.2 volt flashlight bulb with a tiny drop in the milivolts off the bcap  and keep the aa battery charging while keeping the bcap above unity . The circuit will use micro Ics and a pic to do the deed way better / Its a go ! All the circuitry is ther except for the pic code which Alex is writing to adjust the bcap discharge parameters . . It's as real as it gets !self runner for sure ,but is it enough to snag a prize ? Stephan and other will be intrigued none the less . !!! I acan't wait to see that sparkle in his eye! A video will be sent to him so he can post it on youtube of a bcap charging a bcap . and the unit protype itself before i send him his unit .

We are spreading the work and word and after the units are made i will contact the local Tv and news papers with the news and a video/interview . As others will be reproducing the units i suggest you all  hurry up and get some bcaps from maxwell or anywhere you can ASAP before the news hits !! they will be non existent or extremely unfeasible not far from now .
Gadget

Hi,

Here's the results. This method of slow charge, fast discharge did not show COP>1. The final voltage after charging the UC was 374.1mV, took 40.383 joules, and the charging current was a bit over 22mA. After discharging the UC at a max current well over 400mA, the final result is that 3.265 joules was lost in the entire charge/discharge process, thus making this UC 91.9% efficient, which IMO makes it one amazing capacitor.

The data log file is over 200MB. If anyone absolutely must have this, then let me know. My brother is flying out from out of state, and his plane will land in about 5 minutes. Hopefully tomorrow I can post the circuits & software for anyone who wants to replicate this or build a very simple data logger.

Gadget, keep up the work, and hope you get a self-runner. Like you said, it might be a different way. The secret might be in the pulses. Or it might not be the UC at all, as it might be in the JT, or perhaps a combination of both.

BTW, after watching this experiment all day, the amazing main effect I've observed over the past week appears to be dielectric absorption. There might be other main effects. Who knows until one investigates. As is seen in the charging data, the UC change in capacitance was a minor effect, as expected and as seen in last weeks measurements, but we've gone over this before.

Anyhow, I have to go to the airport a.s.a.p.

Cheers,
Paul

thank you Paul and that is good information.This tells up that a constant current supply at the very low voltage you charged to is 91% efficiency . What if you charged it to a usable 2.00 volts ?  i see a jump in joules verse charge at one point . Also This in no way deters me and the projects in no way . there is still a working model and still a cap to cap version and still won;t explain the minor drop charging from an aa battery to full bcap . So there is something else involved . Maybe charging it at a Frequency pulsed at 5.5 milliamps is the magic and the cap never heats internally ? Remains to be seen and i am working with the devices and not numbers or theory   so anyone is welcome to do there test . in the meantime we are full steam with the >1  self runner . and so seeing will be your proof also . I know its almost Christmas but being you have it set up . could you start at a voltage of the bcap  @ .521 . the actual cut off point for usable voltage for a silicon transistor . all my caps set here when discharged . this is where they stop running Jt's with silicon . and this is where mine take off from that point  to charge to full . I realize that's a half volt already in the cap but it make no difference in a self runner . the will be running on their own after that point .  our new chip will run as low as .8 volts  and it takes   a few hours to reach this point .
 

Gadget.

speed is power lol  duh!!  why do you think im back ... ?

hummmm

lol


just like i said i dont know 4 years ago ...  your calculation of horse power is INCCORECT!  lol 

so is you interpertation of the effects ...   high freq ring a bell?   lol  the batteries and caps are TRANSLATING DEVICES ...  they dont care the freq ...  they switch it to PURE DC ....
so if you have a small source running really fast ...  you have a high freq ... and when you slow it back down  it ends up more

and every time you turn it on and off a simple kick is produced much higher in voltage than required to produce the effect ..

so you transmitt and you use only what you recieve ...   

so many thousand times i say the same thing ...  yawn...   



hummmmm

bla bla ... 

w

@mh . FrequencyPDC is different that pure Dc current .The Bcap Will react Differently with Frequency charge  just like an led will react differently but you get the same effect with less power from a source  . and i know leds lit by pulses produce the same if not more light on 1000th the amount of current required to light them and i know they are blinking so fast the human eye cannot detect this . same with Battery caps only they don't require the amount of joules the constant current supply gives them . there's and interruption and a slight rest time to consider when they are charging with a Jt so they shouldn't even see a temperature change like they will with dc constant current.  you are incorrect ! Go ahead and Flame me one more time and say anything pertaining to My work ,education or knowledge from Experiments . You have no way to prove what you are calculating because you have not tried it man . I am waiting for your counter action but i don;t expect you to prove anything without a real experiment .
Thank you so much for your interest . Paul says there 91% with a constant supply and that is good enough for everyone else ! Have a great Christmas Mh and family ! .

Gadget.