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Author Topic: Ultracaps tested for excess energy  (Read 210431 times)

Mk1

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #105 on: December 05, 2009, 12:27:48 AM »
Question ?

What can you make from 2 different type of metal in electrolyte?

Hum , that's is weird ! i swear its a battery , but no its a cap. 

innovation_station

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #106 on: December 05, 2009, 12:37:36 AM »
Question ?

What can you make from 2 different type of metal in electrolyte?

Hum , that's is weird ! i swear its a battery , but no its a cap.

welcome ...

mk1 

i swear it runs on nothing .. but how can it .. its black ...  no wate  its white ...   yikes

its everything and nothing .. its half full its half empty .. 

very quantum ...

ist!   


Pirate88179

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #107 on: December 05, 2009, 12:49:43 AM »

Bill makes a few definitive statements declaring that supercapacitors are different but when he is asked to back up his statements he has absolutely nothing to offer.  All in a day's play.



MileHigh

You can't be serious here.  I have attempted to point out all of the differences to you so many times, my fingers have blisters from typing so much.  You "claim" I have nothing to offer only because what I have told you, and been telling you does not agree with your 1918 Electronics 101 Beginner's Handbook that you must sleep with under your pillow.

Many folks here have offered you good, solid responses to your continued incorrect posits about ultracaps but you choose to ignore them.  Now you even dare to call into question Gadget's many years of electronics experience.  You claim you do not believe it.  This fits your pattern exactly.  His life experience with electronics allows some great devices that, since you never built any and don't know about, you have to deny that he even has this experience.  The same with the caps.  All of the information presented here, and elsewhere, about how these b-caps ARE different does not fit what you believe to be true so, you have to deny that we have even tried to explain it to you.

I would sure hate to have to be you man.

Please SHUT UP about things you have obviously demonstrated that you know nothing about.  You keep saying the same things over and over and you are incorrect.

I don't know how to say it any clearer than that.

Bill

electricme

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #108 on: December 05, 2009, 01:20:25 AM »
@ Jadaro2600,

What kind of device is this tube? ...

I'm wondering if it is safe to use such tubes, I'm aware that there may be consequences for using vacuum tubes, as such things are used in produce radiation(?).
Yes, it is a Mercury Vapor Lamp, this is how I received it, thrown away in the dump.
I assume its exhausted the ability to make light, but it sure puts on a display that is very interresting indeed.

Does anyone know what type of UV shielding one can use for the UV radiation, but still be able to observe the striation patterns?

Here is what it actually looks like when it is not turned on.



 

Pirate88179

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #109 on: December 05, 2009, 01:24:17 AM »
Jim:

It depends.  Glass and some plastics shield long wave UV but it is the short wave UV that does the damage.  (I hope I don't have this backwards...I don't think so)  I don't know of anything that will shield the short waves and still allow visual monitoring except maybe by filming with a video camera that has "night vision" and playing it back thereby preserving your eyes.

As an aside, in the PI business we use those hand held spot lights of like 2 million candlepower (Q-beam, etc) to which we add an IR filter.  Then we can shoot on night scope and paint the area we want to video up to about 600 feet away. (It shows up like shooting in broad day light)
I know UV and IR are different but, for some reason, I can also see UV on my camera on this setting as well.


Bill

MileHigh

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #110 on: December 05, 2009, 01:41:23 AM »
Bill:

V = Q/C
The voltage across a capacitor is directly proportional to the charge on the capacitor and inversely proportional to the size of the capacitor.

i = C dv/dt
The current flowing through a capacitor is the product of the capacitance and the rate of change of the voltage across the capacitor with respect to time. 

In this case the capacitor is acting as a voltage differentiator, where the current is indicating the rate of change of the voltage across the capacitor with respect to time.

E = 1/2 C v-squared.
The energy in a capacitor is one-half the capacitance times the voltage across the capacitor squared.

In electronics voltage is the "though" variable current is the "across" variable.  In a capacitor, the through variable, current, is absorbed by the capacitor resulting in an increased voltage across the capacitor.  This is a process called integration.  If the current changed direction then you integrate i(t) dt where i(t) is negative, resulting in decreased voltage across the capacitor.

This is analogous to a moving mass where the through variable is force and the across variable is velocity.  E = 1/2 M v-squared.  The mass integrates the force resulting in increased velocity.

This is analogous to a spinning merry-go-round where the trough variable is torque and the across variable is angular velocity.  The merry-go-round integrates the torque imparted on it by the ball-peen hammer resulting in increased angular velocity.  This represents stored energy:  E = 1/2 Moment_of_Inertia * Angular_velocity-squared.

v = (t=t0)Integral(t=t1) 1/C i(t) dt
The voltage across a capacitor is inversely proportional to the size of the capacitor times the integral of i as a function of time from t=t1 to t=t2.

In this case the capacitor is acting as a current integrator, where the voltage is indicating the amount of charge (current * time) stored on the capacitor.

Capacitors, moving masses, and merry-go-rounds are power integrators giving you stored energy.  That means that they absorb and store the power that is put into them.  Power is the product of the through variable and the across variable.  Voltage times current, force time velocity, and torque times angular velocity are all forms of power.  You can just "pick your capacitor" and watch as it performs the integration of the incoming power with respect to time and converts it into stored energy.  That can involve integrating voltage times current with respect to time, force times velocity with respect to time, or torque times angular velocity with respect to time.

At zero hertz the impedance of a capacitor is infinity.

At infinity hertz the impedance of a capacitor is zero.

When you connect a battery to a discharged capacitor, the instant the battery connects to the capacitor, the capacitor looks like a short circuit.  After the capacitor charges up, it looks like an open circuit.

When you short out an ideal charged capacitor with an ideal short, you get an infinite amount of current for an infinitesimally short amount of time and the capacitor voltage drops to zero in 1/infinity seconds.

When you charge a capacitor through a resistor, it takes an almost infinite amount of time to fully charge the capacitor.  In theory it takes infinity seconds to fully charge, but the electron represents a discrete quantum of charge so there is a limit.

Quote
Please SHUT UP about things you have obviously demonstrated that you know nothing about

What is this, Bill's Cognitive Dissonance Hour?  Mr. 1984 himself?  War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Knowledge is Ignorance?  Is your brain hurting?

You are the one that is doing all the demonstrating and it is mind blowing to see you adamantly refuse to try to learn something while on the JT pages you are this soft teddy bear thanking people for explaining to you the differences between batteries in parallel and in series.  Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hide himself, with his head firmly buried in the sand.

Also, you should never put batteries in parallel.  That's a potential recipe for disaster.

MileHigh

powercat

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #111 on: December 05, 2009, 01:46:20 AM »
UltraCapacitors.org Forum
Each bank rates at 13.8 volts with 500 Farads. The amp rating is 100 for charging (20 amps cycling) maximum. Each bank is composed of 6 - 2.3v 3000F caps with active voltage balance for each cap. These are bigger then the caps I have to replace "AA" and "AAA" batteries. These are for powering a boom box or other "C", "D" battery devices. I can charge the smaller cap paks with these, using car plug adapters. Each cap bank weighs in at about 10 pounds.
http://www.ultracapacitors.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=99&catid=8&func=view&id=215
Michael C Moderator UltraCapacitors.org Forum
========================================
cat  ;)

Mk1

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #112 on: December 05, 2009, 01:48:28 AM »
@all

The question is how many times a man without ulterior motive , will repeat him self !?

Pirate88179

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #113 on: December 05, 2009, 01:49:06 AM »
MH:

All of what you posted most, if not all of us are familiar with, but thanks anyway.  No where in your post did you refer to anything other than capacitors.  Not supercaps and certainly not b-caps.  I know why you did this.  You think they are all the same, but you are wrong.  If they were all the same, why did somebody bother to invent and produce them?

I was being nice to that new fellow who was telling me about batteries in series and parallel.  Why you might ask?  Well, if you read his first post, he said he has over 35 years as an EE BUT he wanted to read every post on that topic before posting.  I believe he said it took him about 2 weeks to do so.  So yes, he has earned my respect right off the bat.  if i recall, you said you would not bother to read more than 5 pages back.  Notice a difference here?

If you look at my videos posted 3 years ago, I think you will see that I already knew that information.  Just because someone tells me something does not mean I did not already know it.  Did NASA used to call you for your advice as a consultant?  Well, they not only used to call me, they actually paid me too.  So I think it safe to say I understand Ohm's law.

But, you don't believe Gadget's history so, I do not expect you to believe mine.

These caps are different.  You can accept that, or do the experiments and testing to prove that incorrect.  Are they OU devices?  I think so but, that is why were are here to TEST that posit.  Please feel free to do so.

Bill

broli

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #114 on: December 05, 2009, 02:08:29 AM »
@MileTroll

"You who make a policy of automatically rejecting 'crazy' ideas without first giving them a fair hearing, you would have joined the experts in 1905 who refused to view the Wright Flyer in action, and whose continuing public ridicule eventually forced the Wrights to abandon the USA and move to France."
- William Beaty

I can sense that the time for MileStupid on this forum is close to stopping.

MileHigh

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #115 on: December 05, 2009, 02:22:14 AM »
Some brain food:

http://powerelectronics.com/mag/power_ultracapacitor_technology_powers/

Ultracapacitors as Circuit Elements

The equivalent circuit used for conventional capacitors can also be applied to ultracapacitors. The circuit schematic in Fig. 2 represents the first-order model for an ultracapacitor. It's comprised of four ideal circuit elements: a capacitance C, a series resistor Rs, a parallel resistor Rp, and a series inductor L. Rs is called the equivalent series resistance (ESR) and contributes to energy loss during capacitor charging and discharging. Rp simulates energy loss due to capacitor self-discharge, and is often referred to as the leakage current resistance. Inductor L results primarily from the physical construction of the capacitor and is usually small. However, in many applications, it can't be neglected — particularly those operating at high frequencies or subjected to hard switching.

Resistor Rp is always much higher than Rs in practical capacitors. Thus, it often can be neglected, particularly in high-power applications. In that case, the impedance of the Fig. 2 circuit model is:

Z = R + i (2pfL-1/2pfC), where L is the inductance in [Henrys]. The impedance is purely resistive when 2pfL-1/2pfC = 0, or f = 1/2 p(LC)½. This particular frequency is referred to as the resonance frequency of the capacitor. Thus, the impedance of circuit is simply the resistance at self-resonance. However, ultracapacitors exhibit non-ideal behavior, which result primarily from the porous material used to form the electrodes that cause the resistance and capacitance to be distributed such that the electrical response mimics transmission line behavior. Fig. 3 shows a more realistic circuit representing the real ultracapacitor's electrical response.


DC Behavior of Ultracapacitors

Ultracapacitors used in electric drivelines to load-level the battery experience large-steady (transient) dc, much like the battery, rather than small amplitude ac signals. The dc charge or discharge time (tdisch) of the capacitor is related to the fundamental characteristic frequency (fAC in Hz) of the ac voltage on the capacitor by tdisch » 1/4fAC. Hence, for several backup time applications, the ac signals are lower than 10Hz.

In testing ultracapacitors, it's convenient to model them as a simple series RC circuit when inductive effects are unimportant. In this case, Q = CV, E = 1/2 CV2 and Vo - V = iR + (Qo - Q / C), where Q is charge on the capacitor, V is voltage on capacitor, E is energy stored in the capacitor, and Vo and Qo are voltage and charge at t = 0, respectively.

gadgetmall

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #116 on: December 05, 2009, 03:06:30 AM »
#$!@%$^&%**x(pi2)/666=MH

Pirate88179

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #117 on: December 05, 2009, 03:10:56 AM »
#$!@%$^&%**x(pi2)/666=MH

Well said Al.

Bill

MileHigh

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #118 on: December 05, 2009, 03:34:45 AM »

gadgetmall

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Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #119 on: December 05, 2009, 04:02:31 AM »
Save your soul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
The bit about the Magic powder is real . A man Grew his chopped off finger above the knuckle completely back , finger  nail and all . From his Scientist Brothers powder made from Pig intestines/bladder . . Believe it or not . http://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/24/pig-bladder-powder-r.html
http://multi-medium.net/2008/03/31/the-magic-of-pig-bladder-powder

Some things cannot be explained like >1 that can be SEEN and are POTENTIAL science :
Lee Spievak cut his finger off and then regrew it using pixie dust.

    "I put my finger in," Mr. Spievak says, pointing towards the propeller of a model airplane, "and that's when I sliced my finger off."

Wow, Lee, wow. Reminds me of the time I stuck my tongue in an oscillating fan.

    Today though, you wouldn't know it. Mr Spievak, who is 69 years old, shows off his finger, and it's all there, tissue, nerves, nail, skin, even his finger print. How? Well that's the truly remarkable part. It wasn't a transplant. Mr Spievak re-grew his finger tip. He used a powder - or pixie dust as he sometimes refers to it while telling his story. Mr Speivak's brother Alan - who was working in the field of regenerative medicine - sent him the powder.

The pixie dust, or more appropriately "pigsy dust", is actually made by scraping the cells from the inside of a pig's bladder, treating them with acid, and turning them into a powder. In addition to smelling like urine, the magical substance can regrow fingers lost in the propellers of model airplanes. Scientists hope that within 10 years we will be able to regrow arms and legs. Cool, scientists, but let's think outside the box for a second.

So whats this got to do with Pauls Ultracapacitor thread ....OPEN MINDEDNESS !!