Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Ultracaps tested for excess energy  (Read 209741 times)

gadgetmall

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1733
    • Alternative Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2009, 04:51:47 PM »
Bill:

I am not going to rebut your three technical points and just say that there is noting special or remarkable going on in what you are observing.  I know that you have heard that response before from others including Poynt but this is not the place to go into those details.

So please don't be offended but you haven't convinced me at all with your examples and I have to point out that you did not actually describe any differences between run-of-the-mill capacitors and supercapacitors.

Your comments on the desire to learn are welcomed.  Perhaps one day you and your JT group will get to the point where you see the real deal with respect to your three examples and you might share my viewpoint.  Time will tell.

A little thought experiment for you:  You are in a park and are sitting next to a merry-go-round.  It is an ideal merry-go-round on frictionless bearings and there is no air friction.  You have a small ball-peen hammer in your hand and you hit a rail on the merry-go-round and it starts to turn.  Every second you hit the merry-go-round with your ball-peen hammer and it slowly starts to speed up.  Just like there are frictionless bearings and no air friction, you have a near "magic arm" and can still hit the merry go round with your hammer so that keeps on speeding up faster and faster.  Eventually you decide that the merry-go-round is spinning fast enough and you stop hitting it with your ball-peen hammer.  The merry-go-round then just spins "forever" since there is no bearing or air friction.

That is what is going on with your first example, the earth battery charging the supercap.  That is what the electric circuit is doing.  Perhaps it sounds crazy and incomprehensible to you, but if you keep on learning perhaps one day it will make sense to you.

Anybody that says that this was a junk posting can kiss my ass.

MileHigh
. Your Words don't prove anything . If you want to prove something you have to Build an example .

Mh can you make even 10 amps  1. 5 volts from a 1.4 volt battery for slow release  ? ?  Show that little example in a model . If you can do that then you prove your point  .


However . I am Storing 2.6 volts at 1000's of amps from a 1.4 volt battery only requiring a few millivolts for LONG RELEASE . Remind you again the battery is rated @ 2500MAH .. SHOW US  ? You can't and why you can't see a very high cop from that simple little experiment i did alone is sad . sure you can charge up an electrolytic cap up to several hundred volts at many joules and blow the tip off your screwdriver but you cannot use that energy for more than a few seconds . If you could everyone would have a self runner . this is not  Ou and therefor < 1 Only when you can have a secondary higher than your primary current and volts is this  Ou explained in WIKI ! that what we have here . and it work on Bcap to bcap so without a doubt you cant explain experiment facts with calculations and conjectures . Thats what us experimenters do all the time . No one lit 400 leds up before us with an earth battery as the source . either  Fl tubes . I know its "NOTHING Special "  ha yea right .
and poynt said that  the Jt has been around for over 20 years ,This is Just another person claiming to know it all ,Also not true . It was Named Joule Thief By big Clives and the circuit was introduced in 1999  . only 10 years  at best and its in its infancy still and being constantly perfected and altered  to do incredible things . enuff said about the simple vampire circuit.and Ultracaps are liquid Electrolyte  unlike super cap which contain a solid electrolyte


 


   Also Show Us A capacitor  @ 1volts and Charge another one up to 2 volts  ?  Go ahead .  Show us that you Already have a self runner and a cop >1 and this is "NORMAL "
  .. cause  owners of an ultra cap already did show all this . Explain By showing real models not words . 

And i Love This One Liner from a another TRUE EXPERIMENTER Dr. Stiffler  "to play in the sand box you need your own shovel. "



Albert
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 05:21:08 PM by gadgetmall »

innovation_station

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5134
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2009, 05:53:07 PM »
that is a great line... lmao 

i have not followed his work ...  cuz i know where MINE  goes lol

hehehe

but how true is that ..... 

lol

btw ... i have showen miles more then your remaining time on earth alows for ... if ya hear that!

perhaps if there is a dream intertupter in the house ...   what does it mean when you float off in the sky looking at the world beneth you waveing good bye ? ...... the world was still here ...  i was told ... there only so many seats ... 

ali's words ...  daddy there only so many seats .....   ali blyss

thank you 

william

powercat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2009, 06:03:22 PM »
@Paul, I really appreciate your thoroughness on taking these measurements  :)

@gadget, The ultimate test will be an open source self-runner  :-*

@M H, Looks like someone's got sand in thear face  :(

cat

PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2009, 06:36:42 PM »
This will be fun testing the UC. If it's not excess energy, then it's still not a reflection on gadgetmall's claim since he's using his JT circuit with the UC.

... More data logger fine tuning. It's now hopped up, over ten times faster at ~ 8300 logs / second. That's cooking for this simple ADC chip. Opps, I shouldn't say that work cooking around chips. It's zooming, ... how's that. The software will never be the limitation now. There's a parallel port limitation, which depends on your computers pp hardware. ECP (enhanced capabilities port) mode is ~ four times the rate of unidirectional mode. You could get about 1MB/s, and faster with some pp hardware.

The next level up would be USB or a MCU. The MCU would cache the data, and periodically upload it to the PC unless your MCU has lots of memory. I don't have the luxury of buying anything right now unless it's absolutely necessary. The UC tests don't need high speed, and actually even 1 data log / sec. is fine. 8300 is a bonus!



2. Dielectric absorption. Also know as dielectric hysteresis, or dielectric relaxation, and sometimes as dielectric soakage.

Add: The idea is that the UC current / usage increases the dielectric absorption.


Paul

PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2009, 06:40:57 PM »
@gadget, The ultimate test will be an open source self-runner  :-*

I 2nd that! I hope gadgetmall does not take any chances with a self-runner. Personally I'd hit the road and make sure such technology made it into public hands. Too many insane people in the world who would bump such a person off for far less. I don't assume for one second they can't find your location even if you post anonymously. With some time & $ I could get the location of anyone at this forum.

Don't take the chance.

Paul

gadgetmall

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1733
    • Alternative Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2009, 07:37:58 PM »
I 2nd that! I hope gadgetmall does not take any chances with a self-runner. Personally I'd hit the road and make sure such technology made it into public hands. Too many insane people in the world who would bump such a person off for far less. I don't assume for one second they can't find your location even if you post anonymously. With some time & $ I could get the location of anyone at this forum.

Don't take the chance.

Paul
Thanks Paul but this is NOT my first Self runner . I have several BEDINI that self charge and run with excess power . An i posted what i know about them in the Forum Fusionchip's Feedback to Source Bedini . Like i said They Know Me Already and know where i live . I am Listed in the Federal Communications Bureau and Several City Business Directory's , ICANN and a Also Have Level 4 Clearance with the FBI  for the US post office and also So i can chaperon Kids at School .  . iF THEY TRY TO COME GET ME AND SNUFF ME OUT > THEY WILL HAVE TO GO THRU A COUPLE PINEAPPLES AND A FEW HUNDRED POUNDS OF AMMO FIRST AND HOPE THEY DON'T FORGET TO CLOSE THERE EYES CAUSE  I HAVE A 30 WATT INVISIBLE infrared LASER  THAT BURNS STUFF AT A LONG DISTANCE  :)

innovation_station

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5134
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2009, 07:56:46 PM »
dont worrie gadget ... 

sheesh this is how humans are controlled ...  aliens do it all the time to the foolish humans ...  and ALL SIT UNDER ME ..

thank you!

so stop fearing ...

there was 1 real bad one well bad as in bad the real bad ones are in there home ...  i REFUSED THE RETURN OF the higher self being of the bad one ... i sent it back ... 

i had to be back here and STAND ON EARTH TO DO SUCH A THING ...

it did not fit my plan ...  and explaind why ...  this was understood .. ON ALL LEVELS!

peace ... in! 

now fix the garden please...

PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2009, 08:46:19 PM »
LOL, I hope you guys are right, but I don't care what anyone says, if I ever see a self running, then I myself will be a self run, running like the wind far & fast. Nobody will know where I'm at, and I'll demo the device & spread the good news like wild fires! End of story, and nobody can change my mind.

No chances will be taken here. So if I disappear from this forum, you'll know what's happening.  :)

Paul

MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2009, 12:54:02 AM »
Just going to reply to a few comments.

Paul:

Quote
I keep telling you that measured ultracap capacitance changes far more with respect to temperature than voltage.

I am really not sure why you are concluding this.  In your measurements I see that you speculate that the internal temp is higher when you put more current into the cap.  Do you really know this for sure?

I simply looked at your data and looked for a general trend.  From top to bottom you are continuously charging the capacitor and making the voltage higher and higher, irrespective of the current.  I simply applied a "low pass filter in my head" to your data and concluded that the real trend is capacitance going up for increasing cap voltage.  Also, I found a corroborating link in the abstract to the IEEE paper, remember?

In my opinion you are throwing yourself off the trail with respect to the temperature issue, based on your data.  You are simply seeing the wrong thing.  Take another look at the trending with respect to voltage.

With respect to "micro or nano areas of high temp in the globules" (paraphrasing) giving you more capacitance, that doesn't make sense simply because there can't be any nano areas like this.  Any temperature differences on a nano scale will be equalized in a nanosecond.  Finally, there is no evidence to back up this speculation nor is there any logical reason for this to increase the capacitance.  Also, any production of heat represents lost energy, which you are trying to avoid.

I also did the V=Q/C treatise showing how increased capacitance will give you lower voltage anyways, so speculating on a mechanism that increases the capacitance will simply not give you any more energy.

Quote
I made good contribution at WikiPedia on kTC noise. Do you even know what kTC noise is? Hurry up, go run over to wikipedia so you can pretend that you knew.

What the hell with the attitude?  I haven't a clue what kTC noise is.  I will guess it has something to do with thermal noise.

Bill:

Quote
I did politely ask you, again and again, not to keep positing the same things over and over and over, with nothing to back them up.

This is pure spin-doctoring and enough please.  I made a several posts with different technical points about Paul's project that were basically an attempt to shed some light on the situation so your characterization of my activity is simply a bold-faced lie.  I have no clue why the "believers" fall silent and completely mute when it comes to these types of postings, seemingly afraid to comment or ask a question.  Saying I have nothing to back them up with is another lie.  Don't give me the "experiments" line.

Why don't you apply the same standards to every second wild crazy statement from Gadgetmall?  Is this your cue to fall mute?  Challenge Gagdetmall on his totally unproven statement about being able to power your home if you have 35 or 40 ultracapacitors to work with.

MileHigh

MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2009, 01:22:12 AM »
Some more comments:

Electricme:

The flat Earth/Wright brothers argument is a tired old cliche.  The rebut to that is that it is actually the scientists and enlightened people that knew that powered flight was just around the corner at the beginning of the 20th century - not the other way around as it is always stated.  Many people perfected gliding tests in the 19th century and they knew that all they needed was an engine with a good enough power to weight ratio to get off the ground.

Paul:

Quote
And you ignore my statement, time after time you keep using that false claim to back up your claim that it's not excess energy.

What exactly is your proposed mechanism for getting excess energy with an ultracap.  Please explain it clearly, I am truly not clear on what you are talking about here.

You are saying that I am making a "false claim."  I have said a fair amount, so what precisely is my "false claim?"

Also, what is the "main effect" that you are talking about?  Is it the higher current discharge equaling higher capacitance?  Again, I am not clear here.  Is the "main effect" also an over unity effect?

Quote
It is illogical to say that people who are doing the experiments are being closed minded. You might want to rethink your stance.

If I discuss point "A" then you should respond about point "A" and not point "B."  Point "A" is the fact that people want to believe that supercaps can be sources of free energy without doing the due diligence and learning about energy and electronics first before they form an opinion.  Making uneducated opinions about things is closed minded because you should have the wits and wherewithal to refrain on forming an opinion before you know most or all the facts on the ground first.

Some people following this thread might believe that supercaps can be a source of free energy because "somebody said so."  In contrast, in the real world capacitor technology has never in a million years been considered to be a source of energy.  Why should supercaps be unique in this domain when all other types of capacitors are not a source of free energy and have never been a source of free energy?  Because Gadget said so?

Quote
Charging the UC could producing microscopic temperature changes, which in turn could cause increase the electrolytes effectiveness.

Effectiveness to do what?  What do you really mean here?

Also, like I said there are no areas with microscopic temperature changes.  Is this a pet theory of yours?  What's behind it?  Do you think a microscopic area of higher temperature will be a miniature "bud" of free energy or something?

Quote
It's safe to say there are a lot of irreversible effects within an ultracap. UC current would produce microscopic, actually it's probably closer to nanoscopic temperatures on the surfaces of the micro globular structures within the UC.

Basic physics Paul:  Two extremely small volumes of material of different temperature in a thermally conducting medium will equalize in temperature in an extremely small amount of time.  They will vanish the instant that they are created.  For all practical intents and purposes the inside of a supercap will be at an even temperature.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 01:54:02 AM by MileHigh »

Pirate88179

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8366
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #85 on: December 04, 2009, 01:31:38 AM »
Jim:

Very good points there.

Bill

MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #86 on: December 04, 2009, 01:47:12 AM »
Finishing off...

Gadgetmall:

It's evident that you don't know very much about electronics and energy but I can see that that is not stopping you.

Quote
Mh can you make even 10 amps  1. 5 volts from a 1.4 volt battery for slow release  ? ?  Show that little example in a model . If you can do that then you prove your point  .

That's an awkwardly worded question and in science you can't get away with saying "slow release," you have to be more precise.

The short answer for you is that just about any capacitor can produce ten amps of current at any voltage, the larger the capacitor the longer the time you can sustain the 10 amps.  You need one helluva variable resistor to "sustain 10 amps" though.

Quote
However . I am Storing 2.6 volts at 1000's of amps from a 1.4 volt battery only requiring a few millivolts for LONG RELEASE .


No you are not doing that.  I suggest that you start learning your stuff so that you can at least express yourself when it comes to electronics in a coherent manner.  You are storing a certain amount of charge at a certain potential in your ultracapacitor.  B.S. on the "LONG RELEASE" - 1000's of amperes would discharge your supercap in a very short time.  I suggest that you look up "RC circuit" on Wikipedia and learn how the voltage and the current undergo an exponential decay when a capacitor discharges through a resistor.

Quote
It was Named Joule Thief By big Clives and the circuit was introduced in 1999  . only 10 years  at best and its in its infancy still and being constantly perfected and altered  to do incredible things .

The Joule Thief circuit would merit about 20 minutes worth of discussion in an Electronics 101 class as an example of what you can do with inductors.  This presumes that in the previous classes inductors and transformers were fully explained.  That's it Gadget, the JT circuit does not even merit a footnote in the history of electronics.  It is just a simple and fun way to charge and then discharge an inductor typically with a battery as the energy source.  There is no great "future highway" of research that is going to be going into the JT to "discover it's mysteries and applications" - it's just a fun little circuit to play around with and you see them used in little gizmos that you can buy at the Dollar store.

Quote
Also Show Us A capacitor  @ 1volts and Charge another one up to 2 volts  ?  Go ahead .

Easy, put a JT circuit between the two capacitors.  V = L di/dt.  If you can turn the inductor off fast enough, the sky is the limit with respect to the voltages you can produce.  Ho Hum.

Quote
I have several BEDINI that self charge and run with excess power.

You think that they do but in fact that is not the case.  Swap your batteries back and forth, over and over, and eventually you will end up with two dead batteries, guaranteed.  Don't believe me?  Do the experiment.

Some of you guys should hook up with Jethro Bodine and become Double Naught spies.

MileHigh

broli

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2245
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #87 on: December 04, 2009, 01:51:23 AM »
Look at how all that poor forum space is being violated by the troll.

PaulLowrance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
    • Global Free Energy
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #88 on: December 04, 2009, 02:02:14 AM »
Look at how all that poor forum space is being violated by the troll.

I'm now ignoring him, and when time permits will add him to my forum ignore list here. since he's proven to be closed minded and offers no circuits etc. to contribute. As far as I can tell, he only offers to stall & waste peoples time.

I'm a little bit annoyed that I've spent over half the day on the recent excellent global warming graph that ATT executed himself, with my own additions, then followed by my findings on how Exxon Mobil oil company is in the news on just how much $$$$$$ it's contributing to anti global warming organizations, and is actually in a bit of legal trouble now over all  of this. I'll never buy gas from Exxon again, period. So I'll get up ~ 4-5am tomorrow and try to not spend much time on the forum to finish this data logger & UC measurements.

Regards
Paul

powercat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1091
Re: Ultracaps tested for excess energy
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2009, 02:11:30 AM »
@MH
We are all more than aware of your opinions on this topic    Ow how we are  :(
Argument Clinic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
cat