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Author Topic: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences  (Read 11574 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Hi All,
Methernitha has released a new video about how they live in
their community and what their spiritual goals in life are.

They live in a very nice and beautiful Switzerland valley with
lots of nice nature around them.

I know this, as I have been there twice.

Enjoy !

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7bh4k_methernitha-english_webcam

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: No more mentioning of the Testatika work anymore !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Hel

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 11:41:40 PM »
Quote
P.S: No more mentioning of the Testatika work anymore !

Well, not really, unfortunately...
The new Methernitha's site English section is still unfinished, but I gave a look
at the French section (being I Italian I understand some liiiiiittttllle French).
Under "a propos de" (about):

 A propos de la Thestatika:

 Notre groupe de recherche des énergies alternatives n’existe plus. La Thestatika n’est plus
 montrée. Nous pensons que la Thestatika a aidé des personnes à se motiver pour chercher
 elles-mêmes des possibilités pour sortir de l’impasse des énergies non renouvables. Cette
 machine montrait qu’une personne qui se développe spirituellement est capable de produire
 de l’énergie sans nuire à l’environnement.

 Tous les articles d’internet ou publications diverses concernant cette machine ne sont pas
 de nous et n’ont pas été publiés avec notre approbation.


 Translation:
 About the Thestatika:
 Our alternative energy research group no longer exists (ouch!). The Thestatika is not
 shown anymore. We think that the Thestatika did help some people to self motivate to
 search by themselves some possibility to come out from the deadlock of non renewable
 energies. This machine demonstrated that any people spiritually developed is able to
 produce energy without harming the environment.

  All the articles on the Internet or any publication about this machine are not from us,
 and were never published under our approval.
(a menace ? :D)

"Their research activity on alternative energy is no more"... this can mean two things.
Or they finally succeded to build final and realiable machines, being finally able to
unplug from the power company - OR they simply abandoned all the related projects
(very expensive, I would say) having found some serious technical obstacle.
Ok there's a third idea, they simply told us this story not to be annoied by interested
people anymore...

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 06:20:20 AM »

Ok there's a third idea, they simply told us this story not to be annoied by interested
people anymore...

This is probably the most fiting case here.

Also it could be, that only Mr. Baumann had the knowledge to
do it and as he is or was already over 90 years old,
he might be too old or has now already been deceased, so the
technology had been taken with him into his grave ?

I don´t know, maybe he told the secrets also to other people
of his community ?

I still believe, it has to do with excited radiocative decay via high Voltage with Beta radiation
from mountain crystals that he collected in his region.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 06:20:20 AM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2010, 01:07:52 PM »
Really, I now revise my statement: not just "annoied" but really AFRAID.

I'm currently building a 3KW-like testbed. I almost finished reading out all the
yahoogroups archive on the big T. I detailedly read and studied all the available
stuff (reports, photos, videos...) in the past months. I will post my thoughs and results
on the Thestatika group when I am ready.

Btw, what comes out is that Methernithans acted with a great (apparent ?)
ingenuity in the past by showing the machines here and there. They also sold
promotional videotapes, they told the story and details on the main principle on their
previous web site, they allowed people in Luzi's lab to make a footage and shots...
In early times people (incl. Marinov) were also allowed to briefly inspect and
partially disassemble the machines.
As a result, a little uproar arose in the Internet community. Some people of them
perhaps noticed that having a look "outside" (newsgroups, discussions on the topic,
spread of photos videos info theories...) - causing them to be REALLY afraid that
somebody might sooner or later really happen to replicate the working principle,
or even that he might even already have done. Fear of some 007 engaged by some
government to inflitrate and steal a machine.

In a recent report (I don't remember whether it's from you or whoever else) I read
they would have brought off the machines in a secure place some miles away.
Really I wonder they didn't do that before.

Concerning your theory of pulsed radioactive crystals, I never really wanted to
believe that. It's just an act of faith mine for the original statement saying the Testatikas
taking their power from the air ions. For the fact that electrostatics is an almost
abandoned field which needs further exploration (I'm going to do that).
For the fact that the name itself,  Thesta Distatika -> Thestatika actually contains it,
Statika, Static. Why giving such a name for no reason? And why originally giving away
all that story on the old website, when they were still acting with bona fide, talking
about ES principles, earth and clouds, forming thunderstorms... ?
Why the enigmatic Linden and Principle experiments, which seem trying to demonstrate
some obscure capacitive/EM effects rather than radioactive effects ?
Ok, "the secret is in the crystals", somebody told once. And mr. Bosshard also told
you something similar. As for now, I believe that if really there's some "crystal"
involved, it doesn't play the key role, perhaps it's just an improvement.
Maybe I'm totally wrong of course.

About Baumann alive or dead... I have a sad suspect, perhaps a little perverse one...
that Baumann is actually dead but they perhaps mummified his rests and periodically
go to venerate them... maybe that really happens in his birthday date! Or such a story...
They look really strange people, from the reports at least.

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 02:16:10 PM »
I sometimes wonder if it might not be a combination: the horseshoe magnets use the Linden experiment principle to provide some current and voltage, then that goes to the smaller pots on the sides that are between the outer legs of the magnets and the left/right antenna keys wherein crystals add their current, then that goes from the antenna keys to the big pots wherein the principle experiment principle does its stuff. Meanwhile, the disks provide the pumping and frequencies - unless they also provide some current. So the magnets and the big pots would likely be tapping vacuum energy directly and the smaller pots would be doing stimulated radioactivity. It'd be no surprise that they have such amazing output.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 02:16:10 PM »
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Offline Hel

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 05:45:00 PM »
Steven,
I appreciate very much the fact that you actually put your hands in the dirt
and published all your experiments. I love your work.
I understand that all your work done with disks, capacitors, diodes, electrets,
magnets, oscilloscope ending up in substantially nothing perhaps has deluded and
demotivated you to the point that you're now searching for other explanations beyond
(more or less plain) electrostatics/electromagnetism.

I see you're also working on a vacuum energy theory. That's good. I'm also working
on a TOE, which is completely different from current ones. But it stays in my opinion
that I don't need it yet to understand how Testatika works!

As I told, I'm going to start my experiments as soon as my testbed is finished (I'm
still making the grid electrodes or antenna keys) - So perhaps I will end up the same
as you, after years of fruitless experiments with electrostatics, searching the principle
somewhere else - who knows ?

I frankly don't believe any ZPE or vacuum energy - please don't shot me anybody :-)))
But I believe in free energy. And I'm self convinced that the Testatika is the
only working FE device to date. Maybe this is my damn.

After reading various theories and experiences here and there, they made me
suspicious that electrostatics machines could really behave overunity. Why ?
No ZPE or fringe science here, simply because there may actually be some interaction
with charges in the air/environment. Maybe (almost ?) nobody ever noticed that
because of the unability to efficiently convert HV-LowCurrent to LV-HighCurrent,
and because they usually waste big amounts of energy radiating with spark gaps.

After all, speaking of radioactive stimulation, how could observing a forming
thunderstorm have suggested to Baumann the use of radioactivity for
creating energy ?? It's true that he's known for reporting lots of bullshit too
("an angel appeared and gave me illumination" etc.) but I still allow such
attracting sentences to a so strange and charismatic person.
I also noticed (from the english translation) what Luzi Cathomen told the
two guys in his workshop. Approximatively "you know old vinyl records...
well, we initially plaied with them, they make a lot of static... so we thought
it's an energy we could utililze... it's the same as they do at schools, a big clap,
that's all !" Well I read it out this way: A big handclap, good, nice, you made
a loud spark - or, in the case of translation issues, "clap" could just be the crack
sound of the spark. The same: we have wasted all the energy instead of letting
it flow slowly to make something useful.
Just a hint.

Once, Baumann told (approx.) "there're lots of random particles moving around... we just
have to sort and use them". Air is full of ions. We must search for any squilibrium
in nature and harvest its potential energy to convert in useful work.
We are used to greatly confined, enmassed disequilibriums: the mass of water in a
hydroelectrical lake, an heavy object falling, a strong charge stored in a battery
or capacitor, etc. But little, spreaded disequilibriums do exist also, it's just more
difficult to harvest them.
When I think to Testatika the following image comes to my mind. You're walking
thru a wood after a rain. Everything around you is dripping: branches and ferns
of trees, flowers, grass, everything bears a little amount of water slowly waiting
(if we ignore evaporation here) to reach the ground. That's a vast quantity of
potential energy but we don't see it because it's so spreaded, so diffused all around.
If you could imagine to take many, many little tubes, each one reaching a different
drop, and sort them in a denser, stronger flux of water, toward the ground, you
have then "mentally done the procedure".

So I definitely believe the Testatika is a "charge pump". As a heat pump, a little
work is done to collect an already existing and available free energy.

Marinov (still waiting to get his TWT books...) wrote in an article on the magazine
"Frigidaire" about the Testatika, that the very first apparatus Baumann ever built was
a kind of electrostatic pendulum (or single arm motor) moved by -and also self
recharging- an initially charged capactitor. I doubt he actually played with
radioactive crystals, at least in the beginning. He must have discovered something
"childish simple". Or at least, I want to believe so, perhaps because I'm not
depressed and demotivated yet by years of fruitless experiments with the
apparently mysterious electrostatics...  :)

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2010, 10:07:48 PM »
Hel,
Only briefly near the beginning did I think about the idea of collecting ions and electrons from the air but decided there was not enough energy in them to account for what the testatika does. I'll be delighted if you prove me wrong - success is what matters.

I've been talking ZPE (though I prefer the term vacuum energy) in the testatika group as far back as 2005 when I started there. My problem was the lack of a good physics model. I found that a year or two ago in the Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) model ( http://wsminfo.org ) where the vacuum was not only filled with waves but that there were clearly defined interactions between particles and waves; so none of this random vacuum fluctuations. Kinda hard to engineer randomness. Only recently did I figure out how it might be used and then it took a break during the recent holidays to make me step away from testatika and start using the ideas. But, I just can't seem to get away from the testatika ( :)) because my vacuum energy tapping design is extremely easily applied to the testatika. Here's a page I just added that points this out:
 http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/vacuum_energy/particle_creation_in_the_testatika.htm
It kinda makes sense that it would. I first heard of the idea of particle creation from the vacuum from Moray B. King's book "Quest for Zero Point Energy" in relation to the Hyde Generator, and I quickly started looking for how it might be happening in the testatika, and when WSM came along and I needed a configuration for magnetic field and electric field interaction, I subconsciously used what I knew which was something like the configuration of the testatika pots as a starting point. I guess other starting points were possible but I was too heavily indoctrinated.

I also noticed (from the english translation) what Luzi Cathomen told the
two guys in his workshop. Approximatively "you know old vinyl records...
well, we initially plaied with them, they make a lot of static... so we thought
it's an energy we could utililze... it's the same as they do at schools, a big clap,
that's all !" Well I read it out this way: A big handclap, good, nice, you made
a loud spark - or, in the case of translation issues, "clap" could just be the crack
sound of the spark. The same: we have wasted all the energy instead of letting
it flow slowly to make something useful.
Just a hint.

I had the same interpretation. He was talking about the spark. But given how Paul Baumann said they don't take charge from the disks, I felt he was saying the waste was in letting it arc and lose its high voltage instead of keeping it from arcing and using that high voltage to do something else that in turn would tap into something. But that's just my interpretation.

Once, Baumann told (approx.) "there're lots of random particles moving around... we just
have to sort and use them".

This can also be interpreted as the virtual parrticles of the vacuum in standard physics. I've seen David Hamel, who was as excentric and self-taught as Paul Baumann, take terms and ideas from standard physics and use them in his own way too. I guess we all do that to some extent - different models. Anyway, you could be right - who knows.

If you could imagine to take many, many little tubes, each one reaching a different
drop, and sort them in a denser, stronger flux of water, toward the ground, you
have then "mentally done the procedure".

I love this, the way you explain that phrase "metally done the procedure" where I'm guessing you're refering to what Baumann said. Brilliant!

Or at least, I want to believe so, perhaps because I'm not
depressed and demotivated yet by years of fruitless experiments with the
apparently mysterious electrostatics...  :)

I hope that's not a reference to me. :) I love electrostatics. That's what WSM is based on. The electric field is fundamental, the magnetic field is a result for the electric field. If we'd only stuck with electrostatics instead of going with electromagnetic motors and burning electromagnetics into the brains of electrical engineers, we might have been using vacuum energy long ago. I am glad that I finally have a model I can do engineering with and do less guessing "what's in the pot". At least until the model approach doesn't work, then I'll probably switch back.

Anyway, the very best of luck and keep us posted of your work. The more dirty hands the better.

And in case anyone's curious about my vacuum energy to electrical energy conversion ideas, the top of the tree is at:
 http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/vacuum_energy
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2010, 10:07:48 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2010, 10:39:42 PM »
Hi Hel,
please start with replicating the basic unit, that Bauman
showed to the 30 or so Swiss engineers and consists only out of
an arm and 2 stacks of electrets ( in my opinion lightly radioactive mountain crystals)
and see, if you can get the capacitor charged up with just a few
back and forth movements of the upper ?electret? arm.

If you can´t do this, it makes not much sense at all to build
bigger units...
You first have to check and replicate the basic unit.

I guess these are highly charged electrets maybe also additionaly magnetized
that put the high voltage during the back and forth movement
onto the lightly radioactive mountain crystalls, which are then stimulated and will
release bigger Beta decay, which are captured via the mesh metals and will
then quickly charge up the capacitors.

But as long, as you don´t have the right mountain crystals, ( maybe glimmer with
a high Potassium K40 isotope content)
you will not get the effect.

Maybe Baumann was very "radiation sensitive" and could feel with his fingers the power
of these ?glimmer? crystal plates ?

Please let us know about your progress.
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Hel

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2010, 12:20:23 AM »
Steven,
Quote
Only briefly near the beginning did I think about the idea of collecting ions and electrons from the air but decided there was not enough energy in them to account for what the testatika does.

I usually don't like making calculus and using math. I'm quite reasoning like Baumann
did. I like to QUALIFY first, then QUANTIFY. Someody (F_Dyne IIRC ?) exstimated
some good KWs of ionization potential inside an average cubic meter of air. I dunno.
But the abstract idea of "pumping" electrons someway, ie making their path towards
positive charges easier with a little amount of work really intrigues me. This may
not suddently imply trying to sort them from the air as I suppose the Testatika does.
Just trying a path from ground to air or such. For example, I find very interesting
this theory (Woynar ?): http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=70.0.
Diodes would be needed for that. If so, where are diodes in the T machines ?
The top object has always been defined such. If it's a diode, it's a really unusual
one (sorry I don't understand a word, even translating with google, of all that
russian thread here which is apparently speaking of that component too.)
By logic, the wire wound magnets could theorically act as diodes, but it looks
that nobody currently accomplished to setup a rectifier that way.

Quote
http://rimstar.org/sdenergy/vacuum_energy/particle_creation_in_the_testatika.htm
It kinda makes sense that it would. I first heard of the idea of particle creation from the vacuum from Moray B. King's book "Quest for Zero Point Energy" in relation to the Hyde Generator, and I quickly started looking for how it might be happening in the testatika, and when WSM came along and I needed a configuration for magnetic field and electric field interaction, I subconsciously used what I knew which was something like the configuration of the testatika pots as a starting point. I guess other starting points were possible but I was too heavily indoctrinated.

I really should find the time to study deeply those you new pages. Sorry if I didn't
do yet. Without going in details here (OT) I briefly tell you that I don't believe in
any randomness. My TOE is strictly deterministic and assumes a discrete 3D space
where each cell just contains a link vector to one of six adjacent cells. The transforming
function (like in a cellular automation) operates on the six neighbouring cells only and
field propagation is rhomboedrical. A stable elementary matter structure is a "node",
an invariant configuration under the Tr Func effect, where vectors all points inside
a common center. Depending on how they're balanced, the particle may have a
different field polarization giving rise to gravitic field, EM field, linear momentum.
To make it short, it would appear that magnetic field doesn't exist as a separate
entity, it's just an effect of a moving electric field.

Quote
I had the same interpretation. He was talking about the spark. But given how Paul Baumann said they don't take charge from the disks, I felt he was saying the waste was in letting it arc and lose its high voltage instead of keeping it from arcing and using that high voltage to do something else that in turn would tap into something. But that's just my interpretation.

That affermation from Baumann is misleading. He could just mean that we can't
completely discharge the disks, just let the excess charge be taken by the electrodes.
But, if it's the case, just as corona discharge. It would also ionize air and help the
process of charge collecting. I played a lot with corona motors, and I can definitely
say that sparks are one thing, corona discharges are another thing. You don't
ear its slight fuzz unless there's perfect silence around. You don't see it unless you're in
the darkness. Ok, you smell ozone.

Otherwise, another theory is that there's definitely no charge transfer between the
disks and the rest of the apparatus. Just variable capacitance. Disk gets charged
by rotation (well, they should at least, even if I don't see how without tribo contact)
then capacitively induce an AC to the antenna keys. If it's the case, I agree with
you and others that the energy has then to be "amplified" somewhere.
But Luzi told "no, we don't need conversion, we already have DC, DC!"
I will try out every possibile combination, btw.

Quote
I love this, the way you explain that phrase "metally done the procedure" where I'm guessing you're refering to what Baumann said. Brilliant!

I guess it's almost what he meant. But... it's reported that he handled a magnet while
saying that. So things go more complicated. And we return back to the Linden
experiment. It's crazy, I can't manage to find an HS magnet to play with !!!! I will
have to buy it on the Internet...

Quote
I hope that's not a reference to me. :) I love electrostatics.

Yes but I can well understand how searching some interesting effects for long time
without any interesting results can lead to demotivation :)

Quote
That's what WSM is based on. The electric field is fundamental, the magnetic field is a result for the electric field.
Ok this sounds much like in my TOE... :)

Quote
Anyway, the very best of luck and keep us posted of your work. The more dirty hands the better.
Yes I have some useful observations, in particular on the 3KW machine. I hope to
post all the stuff in few weeks. I only would like to finish my testbed first.

However, and just to conclude... why also am I so doubtful that unknown phisics,
vacuum theory, ZPE, etc. etc. may be directly related to Testatika ? Simply because
I don't think Baumann made such theoretical research. He was mainly a clock maker,
a hand skilled and intuitive person. If he discovered some really unknown phisical
phenomenon, it was just by accident. Since I'm reasoning quite like him, and I
too don't have any academical background, I refuse official science, I have at least
the hope to fall in the same "accident" :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2010, 12:20:23 AM »
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Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2010, 02:03:44 AM »
Hel,
Just one thing to add... I'm not sure if you're aware but if you have an electron beam, for example, and you move a magnet close to the beam, the beam will bend. Though you have to move the magnet, it doesn't actually do any work on the electrons, it just changes their direction. Once the magnet is there it will continue to redirect adinfinitum. You've probably seen me post about this in the testatika group but this might be useful in your attempt to make use of ions and free electrons in the air. So you use a certain amount of energy to redirect already moving ions or free electrons toward where you want them. The total energy of those redirected ions or free electrons can be greater than the energy you use to do the redirection. It's very much like a heat pump which uses mechanical energy to move matter containing heat energy but in this case you'd use electrical energy to move particles containing mechanical energy (?). The key, though, is they have to already be moving. That's the source of excess energy. If you have to do the work to make them move in the first place then you gain nothing.

Re F_dyne's stuff, I've tried in the past but I could never understand his principle - sorry F_dyne, if you're listening.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org
PS. It's scary how much the tone of your writing and your attitude in your approach to this problem sounds like mine. Like reading in a mirror.

Offline Hel

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2010, 05:45:05 PM »
Quote
Just one thing to add... I'm not sure if you're aware but if you have an electron beam, for example, and you move a magnet close to the beam, the beam will bend.

Yes I made simple experiments using a xenon flash tube or a little burnt lightbulb
with some 10KV DC from an air ionizer pcb (a little useful "toy" I often use for my tests).
It's interesting to note how the effect is slight, even approaching a strong HD neo magnet,
but the deflection definitely is there. I couldn't see any appreciable
deflection with sparks instead, eg from a large capacitor, perhaps just because
the cinetic energy of electrons there is too high and would require a much stronger
magnetic field to be deflected.

Quote
Though you have to move the magnet, it doesn't actually do any work on the electrons, it just changes their direction. Once the magnet is there it will continue to redirect adinfinitum.
That's sure, it's a conservative field. The energy is only required to change the scenario,
not to maintain it. Really, from as I see things, we have an electric field in motion
(the beam) interacting with another E field in motion inside the magnet. Mainstream
phisics states that this "motion" is not just due to the electron atomic orbitals, but
to their intrinsic spin too. Unfortunately my TOE is just on beginning and I can't
predict yet what really happens here. Chances are that an electron is really a bistable
configuration ( F(F(x))=x ) thus what they call spin.

Quote
You've probably seen me post about this in the testatika group but this might be useful in your attempt to make use of ions and free electrons in the air. So you use a certain amount of energy to redirect already moving ions or free electrons toward where you want them. The total energy of those redirected ions or free electrons can be greater than the energy you use to do the redirection...
Sure, I agree on that, the problem is just putting that into practice :(
Here's the point, how Buamann could try to achieve that by accident. I figure out
some very precise timing and mechanical properties would be required by any
apparatus to realize all that theory. NASA stuff, rocket science, very high precision,
perhaps some nanotech involved, call it how you prefer. Otherwise, such an "accident"
should have happened more frequently in the story... maybe I see it the wrong way,
of course.

Quote
It's very much like a heat pump which uses mechanical energy to move matter containing heat energy but in this case you'd use electrical energy to move particles containing mechanical energy (?). The key, though, is they have to already be moving. That's the source of excess energy. If you have to do the work to make them move in the first place then you gain nothing.
I feel the heat pump / charge pump is the key concept but I can't figure out yet how to
realize it in pratcice. I'm not sure on the fact that charges have to already be moving,
perhaps I'm missing your deep point here. I see ready separated charges and
heat both as a form of potential energy even if this comparison may seem counter
intuitive. Why ? If we use energy (heat) to heat an ideal mass totally insulated from the
outside world, thus conceptually avoiding any thermodynamic equilibrium, the thermal
energy is stored inside that mass as motion or vibration of its particles. And it should
theoretically stay there. If we use energy (EM, mechanical,) to separate charges, eg.
charging a capacitor or inductively charging a body, and theorically avoiding migration
and losses, we stored the energy there and it should stay there undefinitely. That's
why, with a great generality, I see both things as a form of potential energy.
When you allow the thermal equilirium, for example allowing the heat of
the body in the first example to spread to a contacting cooler body, you can use
that energy flowing. Same when discharging a charged body, allowing negative charges to
join positive charges again, you have your original energy back and you can use it.
That a heat pump moves the heat and doesn't create it is a right and common definition,
but it's perhaps better thought as making a work to continually oppose to thermal
equilibrium.
So, for analogy, a "charge pump" shouldn't in my view neither separate the charges
nor harvesting their motion (cinetic energy), but simply do something to oppose to
their tendency to join themselves.
Note that I'm mumbling publicly here... a bit stressed by the hand work I'm doing for
my electrodes... what a nightmare!

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PS. It's scary how much the tone of your writing and your attitude in your approach to this problem sounds like mine. Like reading in a mirror.
Nice to hear that :)
I have to admit that I feel somehow childish and stupid in my current approach.
A kind of feticism is driving me towards almost blindly building a testbed where the
disks are identical to those of the 3KW machine. And that cost me lots of hard work.
And I don't know exactly what will happen and what I will do. I will go on by
instinct only, or almost.

For Stefan - you're right. I should have started with the principle, with something
less complicated. It would have been more rational. But I'm a woman, and I'm
not completely rational. Perhaps Baumann is really dead (RIP) and he's trying to
drive me crazy, even after trespassing he's trying to condition my mind as
perhaps he did when alive with the members of his community  :o :o :o ;D
Btw, I will of course try the swinging arm experiment, sooner or later. Surely
I will do, how could I don't! But I have some concern about elecrets. Reading
Steven's negative experiences in making those, I don't believe I will have more
luck...

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2010, 05:45:05 PM »
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Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2010, 01:03:51 AM »
You've probably seen me post about this in the testatika group but this might be useful in your attempt to make use of ions and free electrons in the air. So you use a certain amount of A to redirect already moving ions or free electrons toward where you want them. The total A of those redirected ions or free electrons can be greater than the energy you use to do the redirection...

Sure, I agree on that, the problem is just putting that into practice :( Here's the point, how Buamann could try to achieve that by accident. I figure out some very precise timing and mechanical properties would be required by any apparatus to realize all that theory. NASA stuff, rocket science, very high precision, perhaps some nanotech involved, call it how you prefer. Otherwise, such an "accident" should have happened more frequently in the story... maybe I see it the wrong way, of course.

Sorry, I don't have any suggestions on how. I adandoned this idea when I saw the video of Baumann lighting the lightbulb with the 3kW machine. Lot's of power there.

...
So, for analogy, a "charge pump" shouldn't in my view neither separate the charges nor harvesting their motion (cinetic energy), but simply do something to oppose to their tendency to join themselves.

I agree with you about the first analogy (a zero-sum game) and disagree about the second (a net energy gain.) If all you're doing is redirecting the already moving charges then you're doing no more than sticking a pipe in a stream and redirecting it to your turbine. Nevermind, I agree with you. It's not a charge pump.

But I also don't see how you could "simply do something to oppose their tendency to join themselves." If you do that then it remains potential energy and you get nothing out of it. I can see why you're having trouble figuring out how to do it. :)

I have to admit that I feel somehow childish and stupid in my current approach. A kind of feticism is driving me towards almost blindly building a testbed where the disks are identical to those of the 3KW machine. And that cost me lots of hard work. And I don't know exactly what will happen and what I will do. I will go on by instinct only, or almost.

And maybe it'll work or maybe it won't and you'll try another approach after. But you will learn more than someone just sitting there doing nothing, and you'll be able to apply what you've learned to your next try.

Btw, I will of course try the swinging arm experiment, sooner or later. Surely I will do, how could I don't! But I have some concern about elecrets. Reading Steven's negative experiences in making those, I don't believe I will have more luck...

Don't let my failure to make them stop you. I stupidly didn't put an ammeter in series. If I did I would have realized my current was too high and then I would have put a large resistor in series. Then it probably would have worked. It's just that I don't need one right now, otherwise I'd do it again.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Offline Hel

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2010, 02:10:29 PM »
Dear Steven et al.,
I'd better to shut down and work at the moment, really  ;)
Temptation to exchange some ideas with other people interested in the T was strong,
but it's better for me to proceed with order.
Since, as I told, my approach here is by choice "childish" in the hope to discover
some childish simple principle, thus avoiding any math or scientific analysis BEFORE,
I will avoid any loud rambling or public ruminations  :D

As soon as I finish my setup I will post a brief introduction on yahoo T group along
with photos and interesting observations I made with the available information we have,
mainly about the 3KW machine. Since I have no real theories, just observations, I
will limit to those, in the hope they might enlight (eheheh... Baumann's enlightment ;)
somebody else and/or allow some useful theory and ideas arise.

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Sorry, I don't have any suggestions on how. I adandoned this idea when I saw the video of Baumann lighting the lightbulb with the 3kW machine. Lot's of power there.
101% efficiency would be enough for me, at least at beginning ;)
I would avoid discussing too much here for the fact that I prefer to keep all discussions
about T in only one place, the proper side which is IMHO the yahoo group.
Reading thru the archive, I read with interest the posts of Alchemist (about 2007).
A guy who claimed to have reached apparently unusual results but not completely
explaining them, and I frankly don't know to what point he was sincere or he was
just fooling us. For an example, he told he managed to have his Whimshurst almost
self running using a feedack mechanism that I will of course try out, when my setup is
ready. That alone would already be a great result, a start point to study with scientific
rigour.

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But I also don't see how you could "simply do something to oppose their tendency to join themselves." If you do that then it remains potential energy and you get nothing out of it.
I remember to you that I was just thinking too laugh ;)
I mean, to allow them to join thru the path YOU WANT (eg, a load, directly or
indirectly) rather than what would have been their natural tendency to join elsewhere,
making no useful work to you. Going back to my drops analogy, just avoid drops
dripping directly to the ground, but thru and alternative path. For example,
in a closed room, you will avoid the heat to flow outside, better letting it flowing to
the boides of the occupying persons. Don't let it reach equilibrium with the outside
world, make it reach equilibrium with the inside world first.
Btw, don't take too seriously these ruminations...
 
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And maybe it'll work or maybe it won't and you'll try another approach after. But you will learn more than someone just sitting there doing nothing, and you'll be able to apply what you've learned to your next try.
INDEED. That's what I think. Even if I won't reach any interesting result, in the worst
case I will have learned something useful. Experience is enrichment.

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Don't let my failure to make them stop you. I stupidly didn't put an ammeter in series. If Idid I would have realized my current was too high and then I would have put a large resistor in series. Then it probably would have worked. It's just that I don't need one right now, otherwise I'd do it again.

That's interesting... avoiding too much current. I will remark it.

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2010, 02:35:36 PM »
Dear Steven et al.,
I'd better to shut down and work at the A, really  ;)
Temptation to exchange some ideas with other people interested in the T was strong,
but it's better for me to proceed with order.
Since, as I told, my approach here is by choice "childish" in the hope to discover
some childish simple principle, thus avoiding any math or scientific analysis BEFORE,
I will avoid any loud rambling or public ruminations  :D

Sounds like a plan. Looking forward to your results.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Offline gauschor

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Re: New Methernitha video of their spiritual goals and life experiences
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2010, 05:25:25 PM »
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Disk gets charged by rotation (well, they should at least, even if I don't see how without tribo contact)

I wanted to add something in here, but I don't know if it works. I'm sure some of you remember the small video about the Testatika and Luzi (or who the guy was) building the 2m diameter Testatika disc claiming that the grid-segments on the disc need to be slightly magnetized otherwise it wouldn't work.
I have digged in some forums and and found out that with different magnetizations you can move charges on segments. So lets assume you have magnetized the sectors on 1 disk magnetized with one Magnetpole and the sectors of disk 2 with the other magnetpole one would have 2 different influencing segments without even using a neutralizer or anything else.
It might be possible that this could be a way to get the same electrostatic effects as a wimshurst - just without any contact.

(PS: aluminium cannot be magnetized)

 

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