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### Author Topic: Joule Thief 101  (Read 738194 times)

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2535 on: May 13, 2016, 01:54:24 PM »

Quote
then the real and the ideal coil as defined are virtually indistinguishable

Other than one not having any resistance,and there for dose not dissipate any power,to one that dose have resistance,and dose dissipate power.

Quote
I sure as hell understand the difference between a real inductor and an ideal inductor.

I dont think you can.
You just cannot grasp the difference a small amount of resistance to that of no resistance.
As you can see,one has a finite time constant,and one an infinite constant.
But i see now your test is determined by a time limit,and so you think all will be equal--the MH paradox

Quote
More complete and utter foolishness because your powers of conceptualization and application of knowledge are almost nil.

Hows them understandings on resonant systems coming along MH?
Have you learned what a J/FET is yet,and how it works?.

Quote
Here is what you don't understand:  When you look at the example which is over a period of three seconds, then the real and the ideal coil as defined are virtually indistinguishable.  You have to factor in time and you are blind to this fact.

Along with the fact that your ideal inductor has 4 volts across it for 3 seconds--as stated in your question--along with all your other voltage drops and reversing polarities.

Looking forward to your answer on a finite inductance value for an inductor with no resistance

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2536 on: May 13, 2016, 01:58:51 PM »
This whole time you have clearly not understood what inductance is and that is the crux of the problem.  You have been bluffing your way through for years.

Quote
Hit the reset button and open an electronics book from page 1 and start reading.

I would think that some one that dose not know what a J/FET is,or dose not understand what DC is,or cant grasp the fact that there is a difference between an object vibrating at it's natural frequency to that object resonating,would be far better off hitting the books.

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2537 on: May 13, 2016, 02:06:59 PM »
<<< Have you learned what a J/FET is yet,and how it works?  >>>

Yes, what is it now, 25 to 35 times you have stated this?

When this first came up I clearly told you that last time I discussed a JFET was 35 years ago sitting in an electronics class and I forgot the the definition.  But like a sleaze you are going to repeat that until you are blue in the face.

Let me make it clear to you:  You can pretend and make yourself believe that you are 'toying' with me all you want.  But at the end of the day you are still the poor schmuck that fell flat on your face with respect to inductors and exposed how clueless you truly are and how you will likely never be able to answer a very simple question about electronics that consists of a power source and a single lousy component.

You have to change your attitude and learn this stuff from scratch.

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2538 on: May 13, 2016, 02:14:23 PM »
I would think that some one that dose not know what a J/FET is,or dose not understand what DC is,or cant grasp the fact that there is a difference between an object vibrating at it's natural frequency to that object resonating,would be far better off hitting the books.

That makes 36 times now.  The whole arc of this discussion going back a few months now when I decided to treat you as a normal person has been an endless series of complete fiascos, crazy mistakes, and the most ridiculous obstinate refusals from you to accept new ideas or unlearn your crazy ideas so you could advance and accomplish some good things and make good progress.

You do not stand a chance of answering the easy question or the harder question and you bluffed and evaded the easy question when I told you to substitute a real coil for the "problem" ideal coil.  You can stew in your juices and pretend that you are doing electronics as long as you want, I don't care.

#### poynt99

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3582
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2539 on: May 13, 2016, 02:43:55 PM »
MH, Mags, tinman,

Why are you guys badgering each other like this?

All three of you know very well what an ideal voltage source is (and you know each other does as well), and mags/Brad, you know full well what MH means in his question and/or his posts when he says the voltage source varies.

To be clear, he does not mean that it varies from its set value over time, he means it is one value for time x, and another value for time y.

#### wattsup

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2606
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2540 on: May 13, 2016, 02:49:13 PM »
@poynt99

Too little too late.

@MH

I think you should do like Ben Franklin and just go fly a kite. Preferably in an ideal thunder cloud using an ideal copper string and key.

You said it yourself. Ideal or 0.0000000000000000001 will not make a difference.

You are so wrong and basically a total waste of time. The former cost 150 needless pages, the later could have been done in 2 and we would already be back to discussing the JT. Remember the JT, so simple but you managed to turn this thread into a low rate horror movie. Not me, you and your ego-maniacal EE bullshit on an OU forum.

Your little mind cannot figure out why the question of "is using ideal voltage and ideal coil in the same question appropriate or not" is your problem not ours, but you seem to insist on shoving your EE Kool-Aid no mater what the taste is. That is your own problem an not ours and once you have realized you could have used so many other means to convey your same "little message", then you will have become better otherwise in the next ten years, you will not have advanced one inch.

You are like a low rate salesman trying to sell fly swatters to Eskimos. You will do whatever is necessary to make that sale. No matter what. I see in your attempt this desperate need to be right at all cost even though you know deep  down this is all bullshit disguised as an @MH EE Lesson. So let's see what you did to this thread.

So you on this thread you have swung around Mrs. Wine Glass, Joe Car Speed and Mr. Ideal Voltage and his possible concubine Miss Ideal Coil. All four cost how many pages of WHAT? Then you float around Handy Push Cart and company and you just keep it coming one after the other.

Now just for the record I just notice you responded to my last post. I did not see it earlier because of all these pages just add up like leaves falling in an autumn breeze. One after the other and each page adding up to another zero.

And you, after all this have the gal to call me out. You have to be one hell of a demented bastard to stoop so low. That post I did started off by saying what? Pee brain, let's see....

Quote
"As the EE World Turns............... just for the fun of it let's play around."
Unquote

First off I was only pointing out the irony of all this discussion. The irony of you with one big mouth acting like Leghorn Foghorn. Look that up on youtube.

You have no real ability to teach anything. All you do is stuff EE Kool-Aid down the throats of everyone here and wonder why people just choke. You are the sicky, not me. You need to straight up your presence on this forum, not me. You have no clue that Electrical Engineering has nothing to do with Overunity Engineering (OE). You just push your little formulas thinking they hold the truth when they actually say absolutely nothing about what is occurring in that coil. Nothing. You are like a doctor that measures body temperature, sweat level and excrement make-up and then says, "I know how a human body works". You don't get it do you and you never will.

So here is a very simple OE question for you. As the voltage rises and the current rises, in or out of phase, explain to us what is actually happening inside that coil at the atomic level and how this proves "current flow". Do not use any formulas because those are just convenient deviations from the actual events occurring in that coil. Hint: The answer is not "it just does", even though all your measurements will only ultimately give you that one answer. It just does is not the right answer. Now when you can answer that and when that answer, since it is at an atomic level then has to coincide with every other effect  in nature is also right, then you are on the right track. So you have ten years to do that and then we will say you have advanced during the last ten years. That is if you set aside your EE flagelations on everyone here and really start using your brain.

wattsup

« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 09:27:23 PM by wattsup »

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2541 on: May 13, 2016, 02:52:32 PM »

You do not stand a chance of answering the easy question or the harder question and you bluffed and evaded the easy question when I told you to substitute a real coil for the "problem" ideal coil.  You can stew in your juices and pretend that you are doing electronics as long as you want, I don't care.

Quote
That makes 36 times now.  The whole arc of this discussion going back a few months now when I decided to treat you as a normal person has been an endless series of complete fiascos, crazy mistakes, and the most ridiculous obstinate refusals from you to accept new ideas or unlearn your crazy ideas so you could advance and accomplish some good things and make good progress.

And how far have your theories taken us MH?--how much have we advanced over the last 20 years.
Wow-we have made things smaller and more compact. We have made computers a little bit faster.
We also still have the internal combustion engine
We also still have coal and gas fired powerstations
We now have motor vehicles that are that complicated,fixing them on the side of the road is now impossible.
All told that it makes for better fuel economy  --horse shit. I had carby cars(no fuel injection),and points(no electronic ignition),and got just as good a fuel economy as any of the cars today.

Your wonderful books cant even cure the common cold,and have taken us no further than we were 20 years ago. In fact, i think we went backwards some where there.

You think everything we need to know will be found in your books--crap.

Just stand back,and have a look at where you are MH,and where your books have taken you.

I know where i want to be,and it isnt found in your books.

You know all those UFOs sighted throughout the world,doing there little maneuvers that our physics believe are impossible--i bet you think there aliens-right?.
Well that may have been the case 60 years ago,but i bet it aint aliens flying them around anymore   Where is your book on that lot?

Here is a fact--you cant possibly know what happens when you place an ideal voltage across superconducting wire--and that is what your ideal coil would have to be wound with to have no resistance. How can you know that that superconductive wire is not going to store all of the induced magnetic field within it,instead of it protruding the outer perimeter of the wire. If that one thing happens--if the produced magnetic field is contained within that superconducting wire,then bye bye inductor--you do not have one.

All your theories could hinge on that one fact,and could all fall apart if what i stated happened.
You are taking a wild guess that the ideal coil,and all that is associated with it,act much the same as a non ideal coil.

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2542 on: May 13, 2016, 03:04:21 PM »
MH, Mags, tinman,

Why are you guys badgering each other like this?

All three of you know very well what an ideal voltage source is (and you know each other does as well), and mags/Brad, you know full well what MH means in his question and/or his posts when he says the voltage source varies.

Quote
To be clear, he does not mean that it varies from its set value over time, he means it is one value for time x, and another value for time y.

Well lets hope he can make that clear,and provide an answer to his original question,instead of going on with a different question-like the example he gave us.

The one thing i will not sit back and let fly,is his ongoing name calling ,degrading comments about me--and i dont give two hoots who tells me to settle down.

You know darn well i left it all alone Poynt,but MH kept dragging my name into his deluded ramblings. Perhaps you should take the time to read this thread,and have a look at the profanities he aimed at me,and see if i responded with the same sort of sick replies--you will not find one.

I have taken as much crap from him as i can,and that's that.
From now on,he gets what he gives--although i will leave out the profanities he has posted toward me.

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2543 on: May 13, 2016, 03:25:18 PM »

The top gun EE guys here on this forum,all believe in one OU device--the TPU.
So these EE guys you think are those that stick strictly to the books,well bad news for you.

Here is a real shocker for you '
One of them has witnessed first hand a self running magnet motor--hows that for a hoot--how are your books going to sort that one out.
And no ,i am not going to put up names--so dont ask. But those EE guys here know that i speak the truth about what i just told you.

We are on a forum that is researching overunity devices,and how to achieve such a device.

Everything you have is just theory,and theory is not fact--it's a best guess on observations so far.

Perhaps if you spent more time looking for the unknown,you wouldnt be sitting here racing shopping carts around the super market.

I tried to show you how resonance can and dose increase efficiency and power from internal combustion engines,and what did you do after i stated that?--you went straight into !it's bullshit! mode,only later to say--i dont know that much about ICEs. This is the way you work,and you need to change. See everything with an open mind,and listen before you make judgments on what others say and tell you.

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2544 on: May 13, 2016, 03:28:37 PM »
@poynt99

Too little too late.

@MH

I think you should do like Ben Franklin and just go fly a kite. Preferably in an ideal thunder cloud using an ideal copper string and key.

You said it yourself. Ideal or 0.0000000000000000001 will not make a difference.

You are so wrong and basically a total waste of time. The former cost 150 needless pages, the later could have been done in 2 and we would already be back to discussing the JT. Remember the JT, so simple but you managed to turn this thread into a low rate horror movie. Not me, you and your ego-maniacal EE bullshit on an OU forum.

Your little mind cannot figure out why the question of "is using ideal voltage and ideal coil in the same question appropriate or not" is your problem not ours, but you seem to insist on shoving your EE Kool-Aid no mater what the taste is. That is your own problem an not ours and once you have realized you could have used so many other means to convey your same "little message", then you will have become better otherwise in the next ten years, you will not have advanced one inch.

You are like a low rate salesman trying to sell fly swatters to Eskimos. You will do whatever is necessary to make that sale. No matter what. I see in your attempt this desperate need to be right at all cost even though you know deep  down this is all bullshit disguised as an @MH EE Lesson. So let's see what you did to this thread.

So you on this thread you have swung around Mrs. Wine Glass, Joe Car Speed and Mr. Ideal Voltage and his possible concubine Miss Ideal Coil. All four cost how many pages of WHAT? Then you float around Handy Push Cart and company and you just keep it coming one after the other.

Now just for the record I just notice you responded to my last post. I did not see it earlier because of all these pages just add up like leaves falling in an autumn breeze. One after the other and each page adding up to another zero.

And you, after all this have the gal to call me out. You have to be one hell of a demented bastard to stoop so low. That post I did started off by saying what? Pee brain, let's see....

Quote
"As the EE World Turns............... just for the fun of it let's play around."
Unquote

First off I was only pointing out the irony of all this discussion. The irony of you with one big mouth acting like Leghorn Foghorn. Look that up on youtube.

You have no real ability to teach anything. All you do is stuff EE Kool-Aid down the throats of everyone here and wonder why people just choke. You are the sicky, not me. You need to straight up your presence on this forum, not me. You have no clue that Electrical Engineering has nothing to do with Overunity Engineering (OE). You just push your little formulas thinking they hold the truth when they actually say absolutely nothing about what is occurring in that coil. Nothing. You are like a doctor that measures body temperature, sweat level and excrement make-up and then says, "I know how a human body works". You don't get it do you and you never will.

So here is a very simple OE question for you. As the voltage rises and the current rises, in or out of phase, explain to us what is actually happening inside that coil at the atomic level and how this proves "current flow". Do not use any formulas because those are just convenient deviations from the actual events occurring in that coil. Hint: The answer is not "it just does", even though all your measurements will only ultimately give you that one answer. It just does is not the right answer. Now when you can answer that and when that answer, since it is at an atomic level then has to coincide with every other effect  in nature is also right, then you are on the right track. So you have ten years to do that and then we will say you have advanced during the last ten years. That is if you set aside your EE flagelations on everyone here and really start using your brain.

wattsup

wattsup

Champion Post Wattsup

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2545 on: May 13, 2016, 03:30:26 PM »

Quote
You have an ideal voltage source and an ideal coil of 5 Henrys.  At time t=0 seconds the coil connects to the ideal voltage source. For three seconds the voltage is 4 volts.  Then for the next two seconds the voltage is zero volts. Then for two seconds the voltage is negative three volts, and then for the next six seconds the voltage is 0.5 volts.  Then after that the voltage is zero volts.
What happens from T=0 when the ideal voltage is connected to the ideal coil?.

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2546 on: May 13, 2016, 03:41:40 PM »
Oh Wattsup, yet another rant.  I have news for you:  Sometimes threads around here are about electronics and not OU.  In fact a lot of them are about electronics just for the fun of discussing electronics.  I see you are just as biased as ever.  Spintronics is nonsense, sorry.

Brad, there is no hope for you.  Stop trying to play the angel, you get down into the gutter a lot.  Look at your own comments to me after I discussed the fist steps towards answering the question:

You are the epic failure others claim you to be.
You are a total disaster.
You epic failure.
You are now the laughing stock of this forum.

It's been a miserable horrible experience trying to discuss electronics with you and you will likely never make any real progress unless you change your attitude.  I doubt that will ever happen.  The miserable horrible experience talking to you and your ridiculous obstinate refusal to listen to sense is the reason it got nasty and the nastiness was a two-way street.  Again, don't try to play the angel, it's pure BS.

I was tired of the "let's create a special space for Brad" business.  Believe me, you have been given a "special space" all this time because you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get a sense of your psychology.  The "resonant Joule Thief," is a Joule Thief an RLC circuit, the wine glass issue, resonance in general, the simple question that you wanted to open a thread for, they have all been epic failures on your part.  It's like talking to a stone.

You are not going to change, and it was worth the battle to try to talk some sense into you.  It never happened and in a month or two you will do some new pulse motor with the usual cringe-worthy mistakes showing how serious your limitations are and if anyone tries to engage with you and correct the mistakes, they will most likely fail.  It certainly won't be me.

So I admit failure in trying to engage with you and get you up the electronics and engineering learning curve.  But the real failure is you failing yourself.  That's exemplified by you saying, "there is a difference between an object vibrating at it's natural frequency to that object resonating."  That says it all right there in a nutshell.

MileHigh

#### ramset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7510
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2547 on: May 13, 2016, 03:43:20 PM »
And lest we forget that MH was excited to finally show that resonance is nothing special and completely misunderstood here

"nothing But a worthless OU trigger word"

"I can't wait to put an end to this resonance nonsense"
----------
well here is some meat for the table.. regarding resonance and breaking the laws of physics

Testing quantised inertia on the emdrive

M.E. McCulloch
April 13, 2016

Abstract
It has been shown that truncated cone-shaped cavities with microwaves
resonating within them move slightly towards their narrow ends (the emdrive).
Standard physics has no explanation for this and an error has
not yet been found
. It is shown here that this effect can be predicted by
assuming that the inertial mass of the photons in the cavity is caused by
Unruh radiation, whose wavelengths must fit exactly within the cavity, using
a theory already applied successfully to astrophysical anomalies such
as galaxy rotation where the Unruh waves have to fit within the Hubble
scale. In the emdrive this means that more Unruh waves are allowed at
the wide end, leading to a greater inertial mass for the photons there, and
to conserve momentum the cavity must move towards its narrow end, as
observed. The model predicts thrusts of: 3.8, 149, 7.3, 0.23, 0.57, 0.11,
0.64 and 0.02 mN compared with the observed thrusts of: 16, 147, 9,
0.09, 0.05, 0.06, 0.03, and 0.02 mN and predicts that if the axial length is
equal to the diameter of the small end of the cavity, the thrust should be
reversed.

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2548 on: May 13, 2016, 03:51:03 PM »

Well the first part of the question has already been answered for you.  Take that information and try to answer the full question or get some help from somebody else.

#### tinman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5236
##### Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2549 on: May 13, 2016, 04:23:39 PM »
Oh Wattsup, yet another rant.  I have news for you:  Sometimes threads around here are about electronics and not OU.  In fact a lot of them are about electronics just for the fun of discussing electronics.  I see you are just as biased as ever.  Spintronics is nonsense, sorry.

Brad, there is no hope for you.  Stop trying to play the angel, you get down into the gutter a lot.  Look at your own comments to me after I discussed the fist steps towards answering the question:

You are the epic failure others claim you to be.
You are a total disaster.
You epic failure.
You are now the laughing stock of this forum.

So I admit failure in trying to engage with you and get you up the electronics and engineering learning curve.  But the real failure is you failing yourself.  That's exemplified by you saying, "there is a difference between an object vibrating at it's natural frequency to that object resonating."  That says it all right there in a nutshell.

MileHigh

As i said MH,you cannot distinguish between oscillations and resonance,nor a high value and infinity.
You lack vision,and wisdom.
Your claim that the first part of your answer has been answered cannot be backed by any real test--so you are guessing as much as you think i am.

I never claimed to have never called you names in return fire,but i refrained from profanities such as you posted.

Many here have explained the difference between an object being in resonance and vibrating at a natural frequency. We tried to explain that resonance is between two oscillating object or forces,when the prime mover oscillates at the natural frequency of the receiver,giving rise to a maximum amplitude of that receiver .
But you dont listen--the MH paradox kicks in,and you change definitions to suit your need to be correct.

You are only fooling yourself MH--no one else.

Quote
It's been a miserable horrible experience trying to discuss electronics with you and you will likely never make any real progress unless you change your attitude.  I doubt that will ever happen.  The miserable horrible experience talking to you and your ridiculous obstinate refusal to listen to sense is the reason it got nasty and the nastiness was a two-way street.  Again, don't try to play the angel, it's pure BS.

MH,be honest --you got your knickers in a twist when i proved you wrong about the ICE resonant issue--and you never got over it. It's all on this thread for everyone to see.
Your tunnel vision bought you unstuck,and you have not coped since.

Quote
You are not going to change, and it was worth the battle to try to talk some sense into you.  It never happened and in a month or two you will do some new pulse motor with the usual cringe-worthy mistakes showing how serious your limitations are and if anyone tries to engage with you and correct the mistakes, they will most likely fail.  It certainly won't be me.

MH
You are not my teacher--please do not portray yourself to be such. This thread showed me(and others) how little you know about the subject at hand. When i read your comment about the simple J/FET--well i think that topped the cake. Then saying that a wine glass vibrating at it's natural frequency was resonance--well the hole got deeper for you. And now ,finally,the DC saga,where the MH paradox kicks in again,and you do some more of your redefining work,where DC now means a steady state unidirectional flow of current,rather than it's actaul meaning of !current flowing in one direction,that may vary in amplitude.

Quote
I was tired of the "let's create a special space for Brad" business.  Believe me, you have been given a "special space" all this time because you don't have to be a rocket scientist to get a sense of your psychology.  The "resonant Joule Thief," is a Joule Thief an RLC circuit, the wine glass issue, resonance in general, the simple question that you wanted to open a thread for, they have all been epic failures on your part.  It's like talking to a stone.

They havnt been failures MH. They have shown everyone here how you work. You only need to read the comments from many of those members here on this thread to see they all think the same--MH changes things to suit his needs.

Of course we are all wrong,and MH is correct--as usual. But that is the MH paradox.

There is no need for you to engage with me any more MH,as i dont need the MH paradox information or definitions any longer.