Ha ha ha - busted.


MileHigh

Since you have never actually built a JT,
you can go to school.

http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Diode-resistance.php

combine the magnitude of the resistance, with the phase angle,
and you can observe the effects of adding the diode to the circuit.
(impedance)
once you learn this, we can move on to the concept of capacitance, within the diode.

maybe tomorrow I can teach you how a WIRE works....

I'm not going to pretend to know what level your "electronics skills" are at,
as you seem to have a difficult time grasping simple basic concepts.
You have absolutely no hands on experience with this circuit,
you are both unqualified, and out of your field of expertise

the only reference point you have on this subject is other peoples work on the JT.
Yet you argue over "how it works", and don't even know what type of circuit this is.
or maybe you just get to high to even bother to read whats sat in front of you.

either way, if all you want to do is argue and laugh at things, wtf are you here for?

we already established 6 pages ago,
the effects of tiny changes in impedance, capacitance, and inductance can change the outcome.

at a given frequency, voltage and current curves:

a diode performs rather consistently.
If you take this diode and place it in that JT, or the other JT, at the same freq.
it will represent the same impedance.


I would tell you to:
Take the red and the green out of your desktop PC case, and compare them.
but I think we both know you are not going to follow me through such a simple lesson.

you would rather tell me that nothing matters and demand I demonstrate "how a diode works"
or some other unfounded protest against basic electronics theory.

the two images above pretty much say it all, the link was more of sarcasm....
I doubt you read more than the first sentence, if you even followed the link at all.

Depending on which tune is playing the trons and the hoes might eye each other across the dance floor on opposite sides of the room like so many wallflowers.  Then the DJ puts on a new tune and the trons and the hoes race towards each other in the center of the dance floor in a frenzy and make contact and seemingly leave this plane of existence.

The DJ is really good, and as the Millenniums say these days, "He is dope."

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg474965#msg474965 date=1455982986]




MileHigh


The term !blocking oscillator! is a bit of an incorrect description.The current flow isnt actually blocked,the current path is disconnected/becomes open--nothing is actually blocked. When the current path becomes open,no current can flow,and so the magnetic field collapses. But it is what it is.

ROTFLMAO, you are not at the point in your understanding where you can properly name a circuit by it's type.  I am not going to try again because there are other issues at play which result in you making that foolish statement.

Odd words from a man that needs dots on coils to work out how an SS SSG circuit is wired.
Or from some one that dose not even have a JT circuit of there own,even though(as you say) is only 5 components.

Two weeks ago people were talking about how a Joule Thief runs like they were from another planet - Planet Bizarro.  And now people understand how a Joule Thief actually works, they understand how its operating frequency is determined, and they understand how it has absolutely nothing to to with resonance at all.

Well i never actually got into the resonance thing,as i dont think that is important towards efficiency,nor plays a key role in it. But then again,we all know the kid on the swing theory,where resonance plays a key roll in efficiency. I mean,you wouldnt want to try and push the kid forward again when he was only half way back on the return swing--would you. You would wait until he hit his return peak,and then give a little push as he just started the cycle all over again. You could also give that little push in the right direction when he reached the mid point in the forward swing--this would be the zero volt line on the AC sine on every down slope crossing.

After all, this is like a circuit with five components and it should be understood.  But of course there was a huge amount of push-back and it was a total slog to get these basic concepts across. It reminds me a bit of EMJunkie and the coils discussion.  I called his bluff and asked him how a circuit worked that consisted of only two components, a voltage source and a coil, and was unable to answer the question after he was talking about coils for months.  It just shows how easy it is for people out there in YouTube land and elsewhere to deceive people that want to believe.

Well there could be two answers to that one MH--you were not clear enough in your description.
Was the voltage source AC or DC ?
As you said !voltage source and coil!,im guessing there was no core for the coil?.
If the voltage source was DC,then you just get a resistive heater with a stable magnetic field.
If the voltage source was AC,then you would have a resistive heater with an alternating/varying magnetic and electric field.

The Joule Thief in it's normal operating mode is understood.  What happens when a Joule Thief changes operating mode at very low voltages is not understood, and it will be up to the people on this thread if they want to pursue that investigation at all.

You mean-not understood by your self MH. I mean,you even said in a reply to Mag's scope shot that you were not even going to try and work it out--but yet,tell me im wrong-->even though you have no idea what is right

Your sarcasm about the incorrect schematic is misplaced.  All experimenters should do that otherwise you end up with mass confusion.  Look at your push-back on the question of the dots for the transformer.  It's not the fact that in this case it was not to difficult to discern, in other schematics it will be difficult to discern.  It's all about the principle of the thing and good practices.  Shame on you for such a sucky attitude - put on the bloody dots.

Some time's MH you become to critical when you find you made a booboo. Like i said,how would you determine the resistance of a 10k VR. It could be .1ohm or 10 000 ohms--but as long as i put it there in the schematic,it's all good.I could turn that pot down to it's lowest resistance,and then the two circuits are the very same--i turn the pot to 1 ohm resistance,and now there different lol. But dot's for such a well known simple circuit?--really
Do i need to come and write keyboard on your keyboard so as you know what it is ? Should i put a sticky note on it for you,saying belongs on computor desk--just so as you know where it go's-like the wires on the SS SSG circuit.. do i really need to place dot's on the bifilar coil for such a simple and well know circuit ?.

You have never seen a depleted battery at 1.5 volts?  How about I interrupt your stream of consciousness with some reality:  Lots of people will pop in a fresh or slightly used battery in their Joule Thieves.  It's supposed to be designed to give you decent performance over a voltage range, not just at a certain low voltage.  Welcome to the real world.

The real world MH,is that most people want there JT to run LED's from nearly dead batteries.
Reality check MH-->If people wanted to use good batteries to run LED's,then why worry about a JT (or any other)circuit at all ?,as more components results in more losses. If you want maximum light for a minimum power cost,then you just run your LED of two x 1.5 volt batteries(using 3 volt LED's)--the best efficiency you will get. But you want to take a good 1.5 volt battery,and loose some of that stored energy in other components as well as your LED--makes no sense.

I didn't miss the schematic in your clip - stop pissing.  I was actually shocked to see a schematic in your clip and I should have remembered that memorable event. What I did do was get thrown off a few days later when you posted a schematic that did not match what transpired in your clip and I commented on that incorrect schematic.  Work on developing some effective communication skills for your audience.

Like i said MH,i turn the VR down to it's lowest resistance,and the two schematics are the same
If i go by 1 ohm intervals,do i have to post 10 000 schematics for you?. Oh how hard it would be to follow MH's rules when we put a VR in the circuit lol.

More pissing.  I just did and I practically has to pound it into your head and now you finally understand how one works.  You are welcome.

Well i have understood what a JT is for,and how it operates under conditions we all want it to operate at(other than yourself MH)for quite some time. It would seem MH,that you want to use good batteries to run an LED,so as the battery becomes run down,but not quite fully discharged,where as the bulk of us want to use as much energy from that battery as we can.
I think you may be in the minority here MH,and i think that bothers you.

Well my point has been made in this thread.

Yes--that much is clear.


Brad

If the voltage source was DC,then you just get a resistive heater with a stable magnetic field.
If the voltage source was AC,then you would have a resistive heater with an alternating/varying magnetic and electric field.

That just shows how linear and insulated your thought patterns are.

You mean-not understood by your self MH.

You have made a claim that you understand how a Joule Thief works at very low voltages.  I am calling BS on you.  Tell me, what determines the operating frequency at very low voltages?

As far as just about all of the content in your two postings goes, you can sure lay the poseur BS on thick when you want to.  It's like watching a bad actor in an amateur theater production.

P.S.:  The only feelings are frustration because of the willful ignorance.

As far as just about all of the content in your two postings goes, you can sure lay the poseur BS on thick when you want to.  It's like watching a bad actor in an amateur theater production.

P.S.:  The only feelings are frustration because of the willful ignorance.

That just shows how linear and insulated your thought patterns are.

And how un-definitive your question was.

You have made a claim that you understand how a Joule Thief works at very low voltages.  I am calling BS on you.  Tell me, what determines the operating frequency at very low voltages?

Once again-another question that cannot be answered without further information--like i asked for before,and you refused to give.
Transistor type
core type,size,grade
wire size,turn ratio
supply voltage that can be delivered without drop
LED type and specifications-->including internal resistance lol.
The list go's on MH

EMJ did not fall for your trick's,and i gave you the answer your question deserved--it's that simple.

What else do you get when you supply a DC voltage to a coil of wire MH ?-other than dissipated heat,and a magnetic field that dose not vary in time. Perhap's it's time you answered some of your own question's.


Brad

And how un-definitive your question was.

Once again-another question that cannot be answered without further information--like i asked for before,and you refused to give.
Transistor type
core type,size,grade
wire size,turn ratio
supply voltage that can be delivered without drop
LED type and specifications-->including internal resistance lol.
The list go's on MH

EMJ did not fall for your trick's,and i gave you the answer your question deserved--it's that simple.

What else do you get when you supply a DC voltage to a coil of wire MH ?-other than dissipated heat,and a magnetic field that dose not vary in time. Perhap's it's time you answered some of your own question's.

Brad

I didn't even ask a question about the voltage source and the coil that I made reference to about EMJ.  Work on your logical thought processes.

The last time you tried to back out of doing some circuit analysis I told you that you didn't need specific component values or if you wanted, just plug in your own values.  You didn't say anything and you ran away.

You are trying to pull off the same stunt this time.  It's obvious that you have no clue how the Joule Thief operates at very low voltages and why you would even claim that you do is almost unbelievable.  You are not fooling anybody - you clearly do not understand the operating mode of the Joule Thief at low voltages.  You are just being a clown.

There were no tricks with respect to EMJ.  He could not answer a question about the operation of a circuit that consisted of a voltage source and a single coil.  He threw everything he could at it and just about had a meltdown.  He was a fraud preaching about coils when he didn't even understand how one worked.  With respect to the Joule Thief at low voltages you are clearly in the same boat.  You are bluffing when you ask for component specifics, it's a farce and you can't admit that you don't know how a Joule Thief works at low voltages.  Why should anybody take you seriously when you spout this kind of nonsense?

MileHigh

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg475033#msg475033 date=1456023956]

You are trying to pull off the same stunt this time.  It's obvious that you have no clue how the Joule Thief operates at very low voltages and why you would even claim that you do is almost unbelievable.  You are not fooling anybody - you clearly do not understand the operating mode of the Joule Thief at low voltages.  You are just being a clown.

Says the man that has no idea him self-->but still can argue that my presented operation is wrong . That is truly laughable MH

The last time you tried to back out of doing some circuit analysis I told you that you didn't need specific component values or if you wanted, just plug in your own values.  You didn't say anything and you ran away.

Oh dear.
Tell us all here how the internal combustion engine works MH,and what RPM it will be capable of achieving. Im not going to give you any specifications about the parts used in that engine,nor will i tell you if it is a gasoline engine,or a diesel engine. Im also not going to tell you whether it is a piston engine ,or of a rotary design-->but i expect you to be able to tell us what will determine the RPM of the engine --much like you asking me what will determine the frequency of a JT circuit without any component specifications.

There were no tricks with respect to EMJ.  He could not answer a question about the operation of a circuit that consisted of a voltage source and a single coil.  He threw everything he could at it and just about had a meltdown.  He was a fraud preaching about coils when he didn't even understand how one worked.

I see once again,you have failed to answer your own question.
Tell us all MH, what is the result when applying a DC voltage to a coil.
As that is all the information you gave EMJ,then i expect you to answer your own question with your given information.

 

With respect to the Joule Thief at low voltages you are clearly in the same boat.  You are bluffing when you ask for component specifics, it's a farce and you can't admit that you don't know how a Joule Thief works at low voltages.  Why should anybody take you seriously when you spout this kind of nonsense?

Here is a fact MH. I have done a lot of work on low voltage oscillators,and i do know how the transistor is working when the supply voltage is lower than the required voltage to switch on the transistor. This can vary with different types of circuits. You on the other hand,admit to not knowing how it work's,and yet believe you have the right to pass judgement on others theories.
I DONT KNOW HOW IT WORK'S-BUT IT DOSNT WORK LIKE THAT.
  See how silly you have made your self look MH

I didn't even ask a question about the voltage source and the coil that I made reference to about EMJ.  Work on your logical thought processes

A clear admittance to not giving enough information to make a correct analysis.
You do this quite often,while insisting that others give accurate and correct information about there experiments--like dots on coils of well know circuit's--> saying one schematic is different from another because it has a 10k VR--although you have no idea as to what resistance value the VR is set at.

These are fact's about you MH,and they have all been displayed on this thread.
You are a true example of a hypocrite --expect everything from others,and yet not even willing to answer your own questions.

I once had respect for you,but that has all faded away now that i have seen your true colors.


Brad