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Author Topic: Joule Thief 101  (Read 728600 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2505 on: May 13, 2016, 04:12:36 AM »


MH, give us proof of your statements below....


1.    Cemf in and Ideal Inductor is not ideal cemf

2.    An Ideal Voltage Source is one that the voltage varies with time


Mags

It will take some time 'looking for' the references on those, before you have to give up. ;)

See folks, if either statement were 'credible' there would be clear documented explanations for them and most likely would have been posted by at least one those that see over us here. And if there isnt, where did the idea of these statements originate?  ??? :o ;)

So I guess thats the end of that. :-\ ???

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2505 on: May 13, 2016, 04:12:36 AM »

Offline Magneticitist

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2506 on: May 13, 2016, 04:49:28 AM »
debating these things should really be more an exercise in furthering
the shared goal of this website than trying to prove someone else wrong.
obviously you are only helping your fellow human out by trying to correct
an obvious error on his/her part, but should there ever come an impasse
such as this.. no need to make it a heated discussion. we are merely
discussing theoretical things.

I can totally respect the defense everyone here applies to their argument with
a fiery passion.. but if some of us believe, myself included, that MH's original
question would not result in any current flow.. and the opposing argument
wishes us to see the light and actual truth of things as they see it.. if there comes the point
at which they feel they have presented more logic than necessary to defend their
conclusion and the opposition has not budged, then eventually there comes a time
to simply agree to disagree. Further discussion could ensue in an attempt to convey
arguments in other ways that may offer new perspective, but not if either side of
the argument simply assumes the opposition is being spiteful and difficult just for the
sake of being spiteful and difficult.

for example I suppose MH and Mags you have history.. well I'm not going
to sit here and try to play Dr. Phil like some jackass, but surely you are
civilized enough to put that history behind you for the sake of an untainted debate.
I wasn't there and don't know what the beef was/is but both of you are intelligent
and formidable so if you can't apologize to each other, or just 'let it go', then I'm
starting to get confused because it honestly seems like the root of the problem
between you two in particular is the ridiculing manner in which each of you have
addressed one another in the past. Those seem like two equal and opposing forces that
should be able to cancel each other out until they could be said to not exist!

see what I did there?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2507 on: May 13, 2016, 05:00:18 AM »
Mags:

Nobody that has a clue about electronics can take you seriously about the voltage source.  Prancing around and saying "Disprove my statement about 'ideal CEMF'" when everybody knows that that is just a spur-of-the-moment "Bradism" is pure farce.  It the old shift-the-burden-of-proof game that has come up ad nauseam on the forums.  You know the drill, "Prove my free energy machine doesn't work."  So you are a pitch man with a tired old song and dance and a crusty dirty old bow tie that's seen better days.

You are out here prancing around like a tired old song and dance man because poor Brad had a really bad moment and you want to draw attention away from that by doing the Dancing Chicken dance and trying an old carny pitch.  It's not working and all of the real electronics people that aren't even on this forum but just lurk for the fun and comedy factor, they are all standing around laughing harshly among themselves and looking at at the poor Dancing Chicken carny guy.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2507 on: May 13, 2016, 05:00:18 AM »
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Offline Magneticitist

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2508 on: May 13, 2016, 05:05:02 AM »
 :-\

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2509 on: May 13, 2016, 05:31:51 AM »
Mags:

Nobody that has a clue about electronics can take you seriously about the voltage source.  Prancing around and saying "Disprove my statement about 'ideal CEMF'" when everybody knows that that is just a spur-of-the-moment "Bradism" is pure farce.  It the old shift-the-burden-of-proof game that has come up ad nauseam on the forums.  You know the drill, "Prove my free energy machine doesn't work."  So you are a pitch man with a tired old song and dance and a crusty dirty old bow tie that's seen better days.

You are out here prancing around like a tired old song and dance man because poor Brad had a really bad moment and you want to draw attention away from that by doing the Dancing Chicken dance and trying an old carny pitch.  It's not working and all of the real electronics people that aren't even on this forum but just lurk for the fun and comedy factor, they are all standing around laughing harshly among themselves and looking at at the poor Dancing Chicken carny guy.


that is what I expected from you. As I just said a post or 2 ago.  lol  I was right!!!     Again, more distraction from the arguments at hand. Still no answers. None.


"Nobody that has a clue about electronics can take you seriously about the voltage source."

Then I challenge that statement!   Go ask Poynt or TK to please come here and correct me on this.  You made a claim in that statement. Make it happen. They are not doing it on their own, so it may be a tough thing to provide clear explanations as too clearing up your 2 claims below......


1.    Cemf in and Ideal Inductor is not ideal cemf

2.    An Ideal Voltage Source is one that the voltage varies with time


You have not denied that you make these statement claims after my repeated questioning, yet you will not in any way clearly explain your standing by these statements. Look over the pages and you have not given any. But there is you beating around the bush and resorting to posts such as above and expect that to fix things???? ::)

Magluvin ;)



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2509 on: May 13, 2016, 05:31:51 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2510 on: May 13, 2016, 05:37:01 AM »
Magluvin:

That's twelve postings from you on the same subject.  That's harassment.

You've gotten my answers and that's it and now is the time for you to stop.

MileHigh

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2511 on: May 13, 2016, 06:02:30 AM »
Magluvin:

That twelve postings from you on the same subject.  That's harassment.

You've gotten my answers and that's it and now is the time for you to stop.

MileHigh

lol.  So now you 'make up' a 12 post rule?  lol. Please post a document that describes that rule exists..   Look at your most recent posts to me. They are just happy happy joy joy? ??? ?   Hypocrite.

YOU did not provide the answers.  YOU made up the Ideal Voltage Source Where The Voltage Varies Over Time. YOU made it up to fit YOUR argument because the real ideal voltage source does not work for YOUR argument. YOU cannot run around talking Ideal Voltage Source in YOUR argument and say that the voltage varies with time, when THE DEFINITION of ideal voltage source absolutely contradicts YOUR claim. Show me otherwise.  Can you or not???

Here is some harassment.  :P   
Sue me. ;)

You claim that cemf of an inductor is 'just a measurement'. You said it just today.  It is YOU that needs to go and learn inductors if YOU cannot say that cemf is a direct action in the function of an inductance.

Now, tell me that cemf is 'only' a measurement when it comes to inductance again.  Go ahead. Say it as if it is fact.  That was the only thing close to an explanation that you have shown here, and you are wrong.  Go ahead and say it again. Then have your electronic guys help you out of that one. ::)

I await more harassment. When what Im really waiting for is answers, that will never come. ;)

Magluvin ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2511 on: May 13, 2016, 06:02:30 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2512 on: May 13, 2016, 06:06:39 AM »
I can't help it if you are so completely clueless after all the years of tinkering with electronics that you can't conceive of a variable ideal voltage source - or - this is all the fake Dancing Chicken.

I told you, go see Brad about the "Ideal CEMF" source.  This is the second and last time I will say it.

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2513 on: May 13, 2016, 06:07:18 AM »
You are just making a fool out of yourself Magluvin and if you are trying to play me then you are a double-fool.  Go chase after Brad because he is the brainiac that invented the term "Ideal CEMF."  It's an on-the-fly definition from him, another "pearl of wisdom" from his stream of consciousness.  Yes, in the basic definition of the term counter electromotive force, a resistor also generates CEMF in response to the current that is flowing through it.  It's a matter of perspective.  Deep thoughts Magluvin, deep thoughts.  You make me laugh about the "rules" about an ideal voltage source.  One more time, you can trace that back to another inspired steam-of-consciousness "pearl of wisdom" from Brad.  Go get your training and the definitions of the "new terms" from Brad - he is the originator of this stuff.

MH,you really are full of it,and we are back to the resonance saga,where you feel that you can just rearange terms and meanings at your will,to suit your needs.

An ideal voltage dose not change with time-period. That is what makes it ideal.
If anyone here would like to find any reference that shows an ideal voltage changing with time,please post it here.
If anyone can prove the the CEMF in an ideal inductor is also not ideal,ther please post it here.

If anyone can show that a DC current flow means only a steady state DC current flow,then please post it here.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2513 on: May 13, 2016, 06:07:18 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2514 on: May 13, 2016, 06:25:27 AM »
You poor guys.  Here you are struggling to understand that the transition from a real inductor with a 0.000001 ohm wire resistance to an ideal coil is seamless.  Instead, you have this crazy belief that no current flows when it is an ideal inductor.  What's the root cause?  The root cause is that you don't understand what an inductor is.  It's "paint by numbers" electronics.  If you are given a sheet to paint in all of the areas, and some numbers are missing, you freeze.  So many things that should be just a normal learning experience are just another version of the ideal coil fiasco.  Simple, understandable things are turned into a crisis.  And to make matters worse, illogical things are invented out of thin air and become part of some "electronics superstition."  You don't have a hope in hell.

Everybody could have been on board and worked together and the question could have been answered a long time ago and everybody could have been that much smarter.  But no, this is the Bizarro world, where your goal is to make it harder and the goal is to fail.

The whole thing is like some Monty Python Black comedy.  The answer to the question will never be arrived at.

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2515 on: May 13, 2016, 06:25:49 AM »
Mags:

Nobody that has a clue about electronics can take you seriously about the voltage source.  Prancing around and saying "Disprove my statement about 'ideal CEMF'" when everybody knows that that is just a spur-of-the-moment "Bradism" is pure farce.  It the old shift-the-burden-of-proof game that has come up ad nauseam on the forums.  You know the drill, "Prove my free energy machine doesn't work."  So you are a pitch man with a tired old song and dance and a crusty dirty old bow tie that's seen better days.

You are out here prancing around like a tired old song and dance man because poor Brad had a really bad moment and you want to draw attention away from that by doing the Dancing Chicken dance and trying an old carny pitch.  It's not working and all of the real electronics people that aren't even on this forum but just lurk for the fun and comedy factor, they are all standing around laughing harshly among themselves and looking at at the poor Dancing Chicken carny guy.

Your question is clear and precise MH

The first part clearly states-an ideal voltage of 4 volts is placed across an ideal inductor for a time of 3 seconds.
Then your answer shows  voltages all over the place.
An ideal voltage dose not vary in time-regardless of the load it is placed across.
You even state in your question 4 volts for 3 seconds across the ideal coil.

We have now entered the realm of the MH paradox,where the meaning of terms can change at MHs will-regardless of facts.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2515 on: May 13, 2016, 06:25:49 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2516 on: May 13, 2016, 06:26:36 AM »
I can't help it if you are so completely clueless after all the years of tinkering with electronics that you can't conceive of a variable ideal voltage source - or - this is all the fake Dancing Chicken.

I told you, go see Brad about the "Ideal CEMF" source.  This is the second and last time I will say it.

Go see Brad?  Brad and I pose the same argument to you.  We are on the same playing field. You are in the make believe playing field. This changing things to fit your argument is a big reason you and I had big arguments in the past. Today didnt have to go like this. You could have tried to clear this up. But I understand that you cannot and are in a corner. And the posts you throw at me show just that.

Can you define counter emf of an inductor? Do you know why it occurs and what effect it has on the input emf?  If you do understand those questions and can answer them well, then you should understand why we pose the question as to why you believe that the cemf of an 'ideal inductor' is not ideal cemf. You have not provided anything to counter that argument. You just 'choose' to say that the cemf of an ideal inductor is not ideal and thats all. You cannot see why that is not good enough for anyone. Well then this is why we are talking about it. We have a very valid point on this, and virtually zero reasoning from you as to why the cemf is not ideal in an ideal inductor. You are taking the ideal inductor and defining it as you see fit, with zero reference as to why you can do that when it does not coincide with the real definition.

Magluvin ;)

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2517 on: May 13, 2016, 06:30:49 AM »
You poor guys.  Here you are struggling to understand that the transition from a real inductor with a 0.000001 ohm wire resistance to an ideal coil is seamless.  Instead, you have this crazy belief that no current flows when it is an ideal inductor.  What's the root cause?  The root cause is that you don't understand what an inductor is.  It's "paint by numbers" electronics.  If you are given a sheet to paint in all of the areas, and some numbers are missing, you freeze.  So many things that should be just a normal learning experience are just another version of the ideal coil fiasco.  Simple, understandable things are turned into a crisis.  And to make matters worse, illogical things are invented out of thin air and become part of some "electronics superstition."  You don't have a hope in hell.

Everybody could have been on board and worked together and the question could have been answered a long time ago and everybody could have been that much smarter.  But no, this is the Bizarro world, where your goal is to make it harder and the goal is to fail.

The whole thing is like some Monty Python Black comedy.  The answer to the question will never be arrived at.

A real inductor reaches its maximum current limit in 5 time constants-or very close to.
An ideal inductor has an infinite time constant.

The MH paradox now takes hold,and real and ideal have now became close enough to the same :D

Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2518 on: May 13, 2016, 06:31:23 AM »
<<< An ideal voltage dose not vary in time-regardless of the load it is placed across.  >>>

I am really sorry that you are unable to conceptualize normal things like v(t) Brad.  It is obviously a severe handicap.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2519 on: May 13, 2016, 06:52:18 AM »
You poor guys.  Here you are struggling to understand that the transition from a real inductor with a 0.000001 ohm wire resistance to an ideal coil is seamless.  Instead, you have this crazy belief that no current flows when it is an ideal inductor.  What's the root cause?  The root cause is that you don't understand what an inductor is.  It's "paint by numbers" electronics.  If you are given a sheet to paint in all of the areas, and some numbers are missing, you freeze.  So many things that should be just a normal learning experience are just another version of the ideal coil fiasco.  Simple, understandable things are turned into a crisis.  And to make matters worse, illogical things are invented out of thin air and become part of some "electronics superstition."  You don't have a hope in hell.

Everybody could have been on board and worked together and the question could have been answered a long time ago and everybody could have been that much smarter.  But no, this is the Bizarro world, where your goal is to make it harder and the goal is to fail.

The whole thing is like some Monty Python Black comedy.  The answer to the question will never be arrived at.

"You poor guys.  Here you are struggling to understand that the transition from a real inductor with a 0.000001 ohm wire resistance to an ideal coil is seamless."

It is not seamless.  Neither is .00000000000000000000000000001ohm. Just the difference between your example and mine is NOT seamless.  Its far from it.

In your example, 1uohm, the current could double if it were .5uohm.  Seamless. More like senseless. ???   What a bad argument.


" Instead, you have this crazy belief that no current flows when it is an ideal inductor.  What's the root cause?  The root cause is that you don't understand what an inductor is."

What is the root cause? ??? ?? Havnt we been telling you? For how long now?   Is your memory that bad that you cant remember the posts of today?  ??? ??? ??? ??? ;)

Readers. Are you reading this?  ;D   Silly isnt it? ;)


" If you are given a sheet to paint in all of the areas, and some numbers are missing, you freeze. "

Freeze?  It is you that are frozen. We are not JUST seeing numbers missing, we are pointing out numbers that are missing and are asking why they are missing in your description. That is not us freezing. It is you. You cannot fully explain your claims. Something you blame many here for. Its on the record. The needle has made its groove. ;)


"So many things that should be just a normal learning experience are just another version of the ideal coil fiasco."

The ideal components are far from normal. That is where you have difficulty I suppose. IT IS NOT NORMAL JIM.  It is a fiasco when you change definitions to suit your arguments, as you have done in the past. Shall I show the examples of you changing the rules to fit your arguments back in the Larscro deal? I have read through that when I dug up that last dirt on you. So I can do that if you like. ;)


"And to make matters worse, illogical things are invented out of thin air and become part of some "electronics superstition."  You don't have a hope in hell."

Cemf of an inductor is what impedes the input emf. Is it not? It is NOT illogical. It is NOT invented. It is NOT superstition. It is fact. A simple fact that you cant seem to handle or comprehend. Clearly. ;)


"But no, this is the Bizarro world, where your goal is to make it harder and the goal is to fail."

You brought up the IDEAL bizarro world to this discussion. And we are all on board, over here.  lol  We may need to send out a life boat for ya. ;)

Mags
 

 

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