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Author Topic: Joule Thief 101  (Read 796882 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2430 on: May 12, 2016, 07:20:24 AM »
Wouldnt the magnet floating over the super cooled superconducting disk, block, whatever it is, be a perfect example of ideal cemf producing an equal opposing field in order for the float to happen? ;)

Mags

That is a perfect example Mags.
A magnetic field from a PM inducing a current flow in the super conductor which produces an equal and opposite magnetic field to that which created it. The PM remains perfectly still,and shows us a true equal and opposite reaction--an ideal state.

Of course MH will try and skip past this,as it dose not agree with the answer he wants everyone to believe.
Ask him to work out the math that gives rise to this situation-how is this perfect and ballanced situation allowed to take place?--well because it's an ideal situation.


Brad

Offline minnie

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2431 on: May 12, 2016, 09:39:31 AM »



   The superconductor excludes any magnetic field and this must be
   considered an effect DISTINCT from zero resistance.
        John.

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2432 on: May 12, 2016, 12:55:49 PM »


   The superconductor excludes any magnetic field and this must be
   considered an effect DISTINCT from zero resistance.
        John.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meissner_effect
 In Type II superconductors, raising the applied field past a critical value Hc1 leads to a mixed state (also known as the vortex state) in which an increasing amount of magnetic flux penetrates the material, but there remains no resistance to the flow of electric current as long as the current is not too large.


Brad


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2433 on: May 12, 2016, 01:56:33 PM »
Well Brad, you are still stuck in your rut I see.

Here is a little story for you to contemplate.

You go to the supermarket to shop for food.  You get a huge amount of stuff and your shopping cart is very heavy.  You are stopped, and then you push on the cart with a continuous even force.  How about that - the heavy shopping cart is pushing back at you with exactly the same amount of force.  You also notice that the shopping cart is starting to speed up and you have to keep quickening your pace.

Think about this:  What if the shopping cart was a "magic" 22nd century shopping cart and instead of being on four wheels with bearings, the shopping cart floated one inch above the floor through magnetic levitation.  That means when you push on it it glides frictionlessly across the floor.

Think about this:  Imagine the shopping cart is stopped, and it has infinite mass.  Then, you push on it and then no matter how long and no matter with how much force, the shopping cart doesn't budge an inch.

Can you learn anything from this Brad?

MileHigh

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2434 on: May 12, 2016, 02:08:34 PM »
Well Brad, you are still stuck in your rut I see.

Here is a little story for you to contemplate.


Think about this:  What if the shopping cart was a "magic" 22nd century shopping cart and instead of being on four wheels with bearings, the shopping cart floated one inch above the floor through magnetic levitation.  That means when you push on it it glides frictionlessly across the floor.

Think about this:  Imagine the shopping cart is stopped, and it has infinite mass.  Then, you push on it and then no matter how long and no matter with how much force, the shopping cart doesn't budge an inch.



MileHigh

Quote
You go to the supermarket to shop for food.  You get a huge amount of stuff and your shopping cart is very heavy.  You are stopped, and then you push on the cart with a continuous even force.  How about that - the heavy shopping cart is pushing back at you with exactly the same amount of force.  You also notice that the shopping cart is starting to speed up and you have to keep quickening your pace.


Maybe the shopping cart is not pushing back at you with exactly the same force,as if it did,it(and you) would not move--how about that?. The shopping cart losses some of that force to motion--think man.
Something ilearned from MarkE,when we were talking about air ram's.
I too thought like you,until Mark explained how when one object is motionless,and the other can move,then the one that is moved by the force that is motionless is not pushing back as hard as the motionless force-something like that,cant quite remember.



Quote
Can you learn anything from this Brad?

Yes
You need to touch up on some of the things you believe to be true.

Edited


Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2435 on: May 12, 2016, 02:18:24 PM »
Here is a bit of news for you MH.
The shopping cart is not pushing back at you with exactly the same force,as if it did,it(and you) would not move--how about that?. The shopping cart losses some of that force to motion--think man.

Brad

So there is your big fail right there.

f = ma

Force = mass x acceleration.

What do you have to say now?

Offline Johan_1955

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2436 on: May 12, 2016, 02:29:24 PM »
Well Brad, you are still stuck in your rut I see.

Here is a little story for you to contemplate.

You go to the supermarket to shop for food.  You get a huge amount of stuff and your shopping cart is very heavy.  You are stopped, and then you push on the cart with a continuous even force.  How about that - the heavy shopping cart is pushing back at you with exactly the same amount of force.  You also notice that the shopping cart is starting to speed up and you have to keep quickening your pace.

Think about this:  What if the shopping cart was a "magic" 22nd century shopping cart and instead of being on four wheels with bearings, the shopping cart floated one inch above the floor through magnetic levitation.  That means when you push on it it glides frictionlessly across the floor.

Think about this:  Imagine the shopping cart is stopped, and it has infinite mass.  Then, you push on it and then no matter how long and no matter with how much force, the shopping cart doesn't budge an inch.

Can you learn anything from this Brad?

MileHigh


More stories: Jammy!!


But above: UpHill, or .............  without bearings?

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2437 on: May 12, 2016, 02:32:54 PM »
So there is your big fail right there.

f = ma

Force = mass x acceleration.

What do you have to say now?

Post edidted--forgot the source of the information

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2438 on: May 12, 2016, 02:36:03 PM »
Brad:

No avoiding this:

<<< In one statement you say a voltage cannot exist across an ideal inductor while a DC current flows through it,but your question states an ideal voltage of 4 volts is across the ideal inductor while a DC current flows through it. >>>

What are you talking about?  I never said that.

No avoiding this:

Here is the reality for you Brad:  You have myself, Poynt, Verpies and Partzman telling you how an ideal coil works and we are all in agreement.  What do you think Picowatt is going to say?  And what is your response to the fact that we are in agreement although we still haven't heard from Picowatt?

<<< Of course MH will try and skip past this,as it dose not agree with the answer he wants everyone to believe.  >>>

Go ahead Brad and tell us about this: "Wouldnt the magnet floating over the super cooled superconducting disk, block, whatever it is, be a perfect example of ideal cemf producing an equal opposing field in order for the float to happen?"

So you are suggesting that this is like applying voltage to a ideal coil and no current flows?  This is not my claim, apparently you agree with Magluvin's statement.  Please go ahead and explain how these two things are equivalent.

No avoiding this:

I said to you if you didn't like the ideal inductor, then turn it into a real inductor by putting a 0.00001 resistor in series with the ideal coil and then go and answer the question.  I don't care if you want to do that, and now just go ahead and answer the question.

Personally, when I first asked you this I think that you were incapable of answering the question and so you just brushed it off.  I am still waiting for you to answer the question and do it with a real inductor if you want.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2439 on: May 12, 2016, 02:39:13 PM »
Post edidted--forgot the source of the information

What do you mean?

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2440 on: May 12, 2016, 02:44:11 PM »
So there is your big fail right there.

f = ma

Force = mass x acceleration.

What do you have to say now?

What i have to say MH,is you have forgotten all about your determining the top speed of a car saga.
Here on earth,Force=mass x acceleration- friction-->you forgot all about the effects of gravity MH.

Hey MH-->how do you determine the top speed of a shopping trolley  :D


Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2441 on: May 12, 2016, 02:48:57 PM »
What i have to say MH,is you have forgotten all about your determining the top speed of a car saga.
Here on earth,Force=mass x acceleration- friction-->you forgot all about the effects of gravity MH.

Brad

You are talking nonsense and I am being serious.

If you stand next to a wall and push on it, it pushes back at you with the same force.

When you push on a shopping cart and it accelerates, it doesn't matter and the shopping is still pushing back at you with the same force.

Do you understand this and agree with this or not?

If you disagree then I want your full explanation.

Offline Johan_1955

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2442 on: May 12, 2016, 02:55:26 PM »
If you stand next to a wall and push on it, it pushes back at you with the same force.

The WALL is pushing back, funny, what is the stroke, trabago? Do you mean resits a force, like wind m2!

When you push on a shopping cart and it accelerates, it doesn't matter and the shopping is still pushing back at you with the same force.

Resistance?

Offline tinman

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2443 on: May 12, 2016, 03:00:06 PM »
Brad:

No avoiding this:



What are you talking about?  I never said that.

No avoiding this:

Here is the reality for you Brad:   What do you think Picowatt is going to say?  And what is your response to the fact that we are in agreement although we still haven't heard from Picowatt?

<<< Of course MH will try and skip past this,as it dose not agree with the answer he wants everyone to believe.  >>>



No avoiding this:

I said to you if you didn't like the ideal inductor, then turn it into a real inductor by putting a 0.00001 resistor in series with the ideal coil and then go and answer the question.  I don't care if you want to do that, and now just go ahead and answer the question.

Personally, when I first asked you this I think that you were incapable of answering the question and so you just brushed it off.  I am still waiting for you to answer the question and do it with a real inductor if you want.

MileHigh

Quote
You have myself, Poynt, Verpies and Partzman telling you how an ideal coil works and we are all in agreement.

I do not remember seeing verpies in agreement with you. I did see he agreed with one of my posts--did you miss that?.
Partsman and poynt are yet to show a sim of an ideal inductor doing what you say it dose. Yes that right,they must include some resistance for the sim to sim lol.

Quote
Personally, when I first asked you this I think that you were incapable of answering the question and so you just brushed it off.  I am still waiting for you to answer the question and do it with a real inductor if you want.

I have answered your question correctly.
You cannot place an ideal voltage across an ideal inductor,as an ideal inductor dose not exist.
That being the case,all answers are theories only,as the answer cannot be proven to be correct.
We already know that a superconductor produces an equal and opposite magnetic force to that which created it. We know that current can flow through a superconductor without a voltage across it. An ideal inductor would be wound with superconducting wire-hence no resistance. So what is the difference between the two MH? One has it's current induced by the EMF placed across it,and the other has it's current induced by the external magnetic field.
Your saying one will work--produce the equal and opposite,while the other will not.

Quote me---><<< In one statement you say a voltage cannot exist across an ideal inductor while a DC current flows through it,but your question states an ideal voltage of 4 volts is across the ideal inductor while a DC current flows through it. >>>

Quote
What are you talking about?  I never said that.

You didnt ?  :o
Are you sure?.


Brad

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joule Thief 101
« Reply #2444 on: May 12, 2016, 03:01:41 PM »
Johan:

Yes the wall pushes back and there is no friction in this discussion.

You should be ashamed of yourself for comparing me to a notorious child abuser and you should apologize to me and to everyone on this forum.  Your behaviour was disgusting.