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Solid States Devices => Joule Thief => Topic started by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2009, 08:06:51 PM

Title: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2009, 08:06:51 PM
I was asked to begin this topic for work on the second stage joule thief circuits.  Our first joule thief topic has grown to monstrous proportions at over 1000 pages and well over 10,000 posts!

There is still a lot of good information there as well as on the joule thief diagrams topic where you will find schematics of some of the devices.

Let's see what we can all accomplish here on this topic.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2009, 08:24:16 PM
This is Gadgetmall's 1.5 volt JT heater circuit.  Gadget has applied for the OU Prize with this device.  Good luck Al.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 08:33:08 PM
Thank you Bill . We could have started the thread but you have Moderator privileges and can edit out old post and stuff  plus you have the Most popular thread on the planet :)

I will start the post by posting My AA battery heater .light circuit using boostcap as the secondary power source heating and burning nichrome wire + lighting 1 watt of leds . Now this is based on the original Joule thief with a secondary .This Schematic is Self explanatory and Simple to make with lots of room for improvement .  I have a 1500 farad ultracapacitor that i will charge with this circuit later in the months and also improve upon the winding of the joule thief circuit . I am dead set on using 1 to 1.7 volts for the input on this device . others can use 12 volts but 12 volts is bulky and there is ac hance of noxious fumes and risk of explosions also with lead acid batteries ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 08:51:51 PM
Hi Gadget,

Have you tried 1.2V rechargeable batteries? I agree 12V car batteries are bulky, might fume if the current is too high, but doesn't bedini say that the bigger the battery the better for OU? Supercaps are great, but not everyone has one.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 21, 2009, 09:09:37 PM
This all seems very cool. I have little to no experience with JT's.

How fast is the boost cap fully charged? And how did you check the 3500amps? Or did you discharge it through a conventional load?
 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 21, 2009, 09:25:56 PM
@all

First thank you Albert for the heater , and those great cap , i know from the beginning that the jt with a secondary was making so much energy that there was about no way to catch it all ...

ps . once you learned about DR. Stifler maybe the could be a way to tune a bunch of antenna coil to the toroid and get even more , wireless power ?



Ok , every one here we take the second step in the jt development .

First we have seen led light then cfl even Bill's four footer , gadget's Tv disruptor , Gary the man that like to walk a different path , Jonny and Lidmotor have made great motor not unlike the old jt , Etc ...

I have to say i forget some , but that is a indication of how much we have done in a short year , Congrats everyone !


Now the Second Stage Joule Thief , Aka SSJT , will be for going beyond that , A second stage could mean many things ...

Its all about ideas .

I have some my self, i will fully explain .

I also believe the is better toroid then the one from goldmine , i wish we could measure those i go one that is way above all the others , lets just say one that one the led make a high pitch noise , and i burned a set of 5 X 5 watt luxon led in parallel from 22 turns secondary ...

Some ideas , please everyone fell free to make them known .


First , How about simply making a second jt work from the first one , running slower then the first one giving us time to charge cap to run the second at slower speed .

Second , we should take advantage of the high voltage from the Flyback jt
to explore the tesla hair pin circuit , and spark gap , after all this is a static charge , it should be possible to charge a plate to the opposite of the surrounding static environment to develop greater charges.

I believe it could also , fly a Lifter .

But now please , Its time to speak , in the Jt tread , like any idea , nothing is to crazy other wise it would not be so fun .

I fell that the jt treat could address the basic mod we make to the jt , and still post to help new people to join in the fun .
But now the attention has been cultivated and starting on page one is less dissuasive for interested people .

Sorry again , for my English (French Dude)...


Mark   
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 10:05:43 PM
Gadget,

Can you take a look at this circuit. I must have something wrong, probably with the toroid primary or secondary connections,

http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/gadgetmall-circuit.gif (http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/gadgetmall-circuit.gif)

The 2 dots by L1 & L2 mean they are on the same core. L2 has twice the windings, and hence 4 times the inductance. I had no idea how much inductance, so took a guess, but that's not the issue right now. The issue is that I don't fully get the connections on your toroid in your drawing.

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 21, 2009, 10:10:59 PM
@Paul


That is a basic Jt , with some mod by Gadget , it doesn't show any secondary...

Just put one on the toroid anyway , gadget mod will help you in running the jt in resonance , and adjusting it so.

Mark
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 10:11:07 PM
This all seems very cool. I have little to no experience with JT's.

How fast is the boost cap fully charged? And how did you check the 3500amps? Or did you discharge it through a conventional load?
The cap took approximately 14 hours to charge with a Standard Jt . the 3500 amps is the Specs. for a Maxwell Boostcap . And yes i said all along this thing burns lamp cord into but only a few days ago i decide to try Ni chrome wire from a burnt out heater . I discharged 4 1/2 minutes from 2.6 down to to a voltage of 1 volt for an experiment 2 .During that time the coil of Ni Chrome lit up brightly and i even lit a cigarette with it :) It was very very hot and i could feel the heat several feet away . All the details are available from the experiments in the last 10 pages or so of Jule thief thread for you to replicate . SUPERCAPS are not ULTRACAPS paul .

@Mk1 . I would like to know if you have a source for that toroid .  I have several large toroids and one that IST has the BIG 140mm ring in route plus some 3.3/4  inch GRAY toroids . I also have some black 2 inch as well . I guess we can start by you describing your specific winding on your device the LED blower ?

Gadget

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 21, 2009, 10:15:35 PM
@gadget

Its the green gem , the very first one , i guess you remember , it  came from a dvd player i think...

We really need to find a way to test those.

Mark
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 21, 2009, 10:29:59 PM
ok just to clear this up b4 some one does something stupid...

i do not reccomend the out put of the large 12vdc unit EVER BE USED AS AN INPUT FOR AN ADATONIAL STAGE!!   no!

stright to invertor for output ONLY!

ok

glad thats done   the big core i used was 10000u this is important as i have read ..

crazy world .. that is truely all i know ..  its a wild place ..

w



Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 10:30:01 PM
@Paul


That is a basic Jt , with some mod by Gadget , it doesn't show any secondary...

Just put one on the toroid anyway , gadget mod will help you in running the jt in resonance , and adjusting it so.

Mark

I think it's a good idea to have the circuit clearly drawn before having people replicate it? That's how the mylow's and such waste peoples time, lack of detail.

Gadget, did you see my question? Thanks.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 21, 2009, 10:37:22 PM
you have 1000+ pages ...  already if your a beginner ... 

master a basic jt first ... please rejoin here ...  then we can move along .. 

insted of old ground !

ist!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 10:51:01 PM
you have 1000+ pages ...  already if your a beginner ... 

master a basic jt first ... please rejoin here ...  then we can move along .. 

insted of old ground !

ist!

It is a new circuit. Gadget just posted his circuit, but there's a serious problem with his drawing in that it's unclear. You don't want people to know exactly how to build gadgets circuit so they can verify his claim?

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 21, 2009, 11:06:17 PM
Paul,

I am not able to follow all the syntax here today, but if I am to follow just the PLowrence drawing I would say you did not make your basic jtc correctly. I think that is what ist is trying to say here.
We all will help you to do that on the joule thief thread so please follow me over there now.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 11:09:06 PM
I'll go where ever you want. I posted in here because Gadget posted his circuit in this thread. The problem is that there's a section in gadgets circuit that is unclear. I asked gadget to clarify his circuit drawing, and he's logged in here numerous times already. No reply.

This is the 3rd claim that I've tried to replicate that the inventor so far will not clarify his circuit. People so far have been extremely dodgy. If they could be specific, then people could replicate it to see if their claim is correct, and that would get things going very fast. That is, assuming the claim is correct. You people do want that, correct, LOL? Very odd!

Another possible issue is that after I just bought my *new* Maxwell boostcap, gadget PM's me saying it probably is flawed, and therefore I can't replicate his claim. He says the bcap from that seller will leak. Very odd.


Okay, see you in the other thread.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 21, 2009, 11:17:07 PM
I would agree, the circuit is not entirely clear in the area of the toroid.

Please clarify the bottom area of the toroid, there are a lot of crossed lines with no connection points given.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 11:24:18 PM
I'll go where ever you want. I posted in here because Gadget posted his circuit in this thread. The problem is that there's a section in gadgets circuit that is unclear. I asked gadget to clarify his circuit drawing, and he's logged in here numerous times already. No reply.

This is the 3rd claim that I've tried to replicate that the inventor so far will not clarify his circuit. People so far have been extremely dodgy. If they could be specific, then people could replicate it to see if their claim is correct, and that would get things going very fast. That is, assuming the claim is correct. You people do want that, correct, LOL? Very odd!

Another possible issue is that after I just bought my *new* Maxwell boostcap, gadget PM's me saying it probably is flawed, and therefore I can't replicate his claim. He says the bcap from that seller will leak. Very odd.


Okay, see you in the other thread.
Hi Paul I am on dial up ! it takes several minutes for a page to load and i am not always in front the computer even if you see me logged  in . I have a 7 year old i raise . I am not sure what is unclear except in the drawing the secondary loop is a little over the bottom half of jt circuit . ignore that there is no connection there .I welcome replications and begged for them . this is nothing anyone can;t do . Its so simple and was right in front of our nose.
gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 11:28:05 PM
I would agree, the circuit is not entirely clear in the area of the toroid.

Please clarify the bottom area of the toroid, there are a lot of crossed lines with no connection points given.

.99

Thanks poynt99!!  :)



Hi Paul I am on dial up ! it takes several minutes for a page to load and i am not always in front the computer even if you see me logged  in . I have a 7 year old i raise . I am not sure what is unclear except in the drawing the secondary loop is a little over the bottom half of jt circuit . ignore that there is no connection there .I welcome replications and begged for them . this is nothing anyone can;t do . Its so simple and was right in front of our nose.
gadget

Gadget, thanks for reply, and we can take this in a different thread because the moderator does not want people to discuss your circuit here, but you still did not answer my question, which is please point out the correction in my circuit so I can know how to build it. You can beg people to replicate it, and I'm begging you to clarify your circuit.  :)

Sorry if I seem frustrated, but I've tried to replicate 3 claims at this forum, and for the freaken life of me I can't get anyone to clarify their designs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks!!
Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 21, 2009, 11:29:40 PM
So Paul...
Where are you?

I am waiting.
I already made a post on the main jt thread to help you.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 11:32:23 PM
I would agree, the circuit is not entirely clear in the area of the toroid.

Please clarify the bottom area of the toroid, there are a lot of crossed lines with no connection points given.

.99
There is no connection . if there was it would be a dot . the bottom half is STANDARD JT . The drawing program i have won't draw the secondary line any further up . Just forget the secondary .

@Pirate can you please replace the other diagrams with this one . I am sorry you others did not  get it the first time around.

@paul
I did answer . Its a Standard 11 turn JT . with a 22 turn secondary  ???????? Standard . the cad program just would not draw the secondary line high enuff but i managed to clear it up .Jt? Anyways yes its the same guy and i did not leave him feed back to spoil his 100% feedback . that's the kind of person i am . i did finally get my money back but it was a bad experience and we had some words . There leaky My friend and you will see . How can anyone sell an 80 dollar bcap for 30 Dollars . Answer there inferior rejects . Its ok Maybe he has some good ones now . like i said i test mine and make 2 dollars off of them .
here is the new schematic to clear up what you don't understand . have fun . It works like i said it does . I hope this Clears up the cad error .

best regards

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 21, 2009, 11:40:56 PM
gadget have you thought about shipping bcaps with a JT kit? It would definitely speed things up for the beginners.

I just read the 10 last JT thread pages and they were interesting indeed. It might need some special circuitry but I would advise to have a certain setup freezed somewhere where people (and pets) can't reach that flip flops between bcaps. This would serve as a good benchmark while you continue to improve the concept.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 22, 2009, 12:34:42 AM
Thanks poynt99!!  :)



Gadget, thanks for reply, and we can take this in a different thread because the moderator does not want people to discuss your circuit here,
Paul

Paul:

What are you talking about??  I am the Moderator and I was the one that posted gadget's drawing in the second post of this topic and we ARE discussing his circuit here.

Jeanna very kindly volunteered to help you with a basic joule thief circuit on the other topic because that is where that circuit was born.  That circuit is only a small part of Gadget's new circuit but if you can't make one of those, then you won't get Gadget's circuit to work.

@ Al:

I will swap out the drawings as you requested as soon as I get a chance.

Thanks,

Bill

***EDIT***  The drawings have been swapped out.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 22, 2009, 12:48:05 AM
Okay, are there any real pictures or any video of this circuit out there yet ?

How bright is the 1 Watt LED and how long does it take to charge up
the ultracap ?

How much power does the circuit draw from with battery at the same time ?

How long will the nichrome wire heat up,
when it discharges the cap ?
Probaby only for a few seconds ?

Have you measured power input from the battery over time= energy input
compared to the heat and light energy output ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 22, 2009, 12:51:12 AM
@Stefan

You can read all the details in the last 10 pages or so from the joule thief tread , and some detail can be found here in the first 3 pages .

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 22, 2009, 01:00:42 AM
Here's an old but interesting video that shows what such a cap can do to a wire. The wire becomes red hot very fast. This is in contrast what high voltage would do ie explode the wire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp2QDhcw6Bs
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 01:05:28 AM
I have read from P.997 as advised by Gadget, and I echo Stefan's questions, with this to add:

Gadget, or anyone--what has led you to believe that the new circuit (or original JT) is capable of OU?

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 22, 2009, 01:09:23 AM
Here's an old but interesting video that shows what such a cap can do to a wire. The wire becomes red hot very fast. This is in contrast what high voltage would do ie explode the wire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp2QDhcw6Bs
Hot stuff!
Thanks broli

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 02:14:53 AM
Hot stuff!
Thanks broli

jeanna

its damm hot sh!ft

lol

you all know where it came from  ;)

ist

same place telepotation came from ...  8)

so to clairfly it for the slow ones gadget!  5 1thousands of a volt charged the cap from source ... you then recycled it and ended up ou bigtime ...

omg   its too easy ...  :P

IF YOU THINK I WILL SETTLE WITH THE FARRA TREATMET YOUR BADLY MISTAKEN!

when we have matured as will your teck!  ;)

when your ready to treat people as people then you shall learn more till then .. 

its time to grow up ..

ill see you if your ready if not ... like you all said this is open source ..

there is nothing that keeps me here other than to share ...  ;)

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 22, 2009, 02:42:54 AM
IST:

And we are happy to have you here sharing with us.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 02:59:39 AM
im happy to be in everyones company ..  :)

but there CAN BE NO FIGHTING ..

look at my wake up video at the end of it ... 

THIS IS YOUR MAIN CLUE WHY I HAVE RETURNED ...

MANY JUMPED TODAY!   AS I JUST FINALLY RE DID THE PORTOR LAST NIGHT THEY duplacted it  ..

AND FINALLY BROUGHT ME BACK ALL OF ME  ;)

video !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inEhl0Ab3CU

have un !    ;) frame 2:10 if you brighten it up with some sun it says fun !

this is no dream my good friends!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 03:20:03 AM
I have read from P.997 as advised by Gadget, and I echo Stefan's questions, with this to add:

Gadget, or anyone--what has led you to believe that the new circuit (or original JT) is capable of OU?

.99
Hi if your read then you know . Do you know what OU stands for . OVER UNITY .  what is unity in this case . Unity is the aa battery voltage and current / here i have a charged aa battery @ 1.495 volts .2500milliamps  I then charge an ultracapacitor  which  is a DIRECT REPLACEMENT FOR LITHIUM BATTERIES THAT PRODUCES 3500 AMPSSSSS of usable current  charged. THE battery cap IS charged TO 2.600 VOLTS @3500ampssssss  with a very small 5 1000's of a volt =aa battery is 1.490 AFTER THE BCAP IS CHARGED  THIS IS  OVER THE UNITY of THE SOURCE!!!! GET IT NOW >>> do you understand ?????

GADGET
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 22, 2009, 03:24:50 AM
Thanks, ist

sadly sweet.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 03:43:30 AM
i think if you know much about this ...   pauls actions are a dirrect effect of this ... you can plainly see his intrest ..  ;)  how did that happin ...  there a few more that will stumble in the door ... lol  ;D :D ;) ;)

boom just like that ...

this will snow ball at a ridculas speed !   

W814

WE CALL IT ROLLIAN SPINN ...  ;)   thats when you winde it up gooooood and proper  and kick it in the a$$ just as you let go .... lol    :D

slow that tornato down once !  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 03:45:11 AM
Here's an old but interesting video that shows what such a cap can do to a wire. The wire becomes red hot very fast. This is in contrast what high voltage would do ie explode the wire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp2QDhcw6Bs
Hi thank you for the video and your contribution here . This was using a fat piece of wire looked like maybe # 22 ? #20 ? You take a high Resistance nichrome wire coil and see the heat that can be produced . . Also more resistance and thinner wire longer run time and hotter heat . this is what i saw . and you can see it will light a cig up nicely . I do not get why some people cannot see that there is over unity in this charging from 5 1000's of volt . heck even if it took a half a volt to charge it up from the aa battery its still over the unity of the run battery ? Right ? Someone ?
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 22, 2009, 04:23:22 AM
Hi thank you for the video and your contribution here . This was using a fat piece of wire looked like maybe # 22 ? #20 ? You take a high Resistance nichrome wire coil and see the heat that can be produced . . Also more resistance and thinner wire longer run time and hotter heat . this is what i saw . and you can see it will light a cig up nicely . I do not get why some people cannot see that there is over unity in this charging from 5 1000's of volt . heck even if it took a half a volt to charge it up from the aa battery its still over the unity of the run battery ? Right ? Someone ?
Gadget

I think that what the people want to see is that the source battery get its voltage back after doing the cap charging.
You must include some kind of feedback to the source battery in order to get a complete overunity system.

Remember that this is only my humble opinion. I can be completely wrong.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 04:33:30 AM
@gadgetmall,

Your 650 Farad capacitor can store maximum 2197 Joule =  0,61 Watt/Hour at 2,6 Volt.
If your JT did use 13mA/h @ 1,495 Volt, and it ran for 14 hours, then the total input
usage was 0,27 Watt/Hour. The total COP = 0,61 / 0,27 = 2,26.

Congratulations! :-)

With that high COP it should be possible to make a self run circuit.

Alex.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 04:40:30 AM
btw gl that was only the first STARTER CHARGE FOR MY CAP MOTOR ...  ;D 8)

the damm aa will start the thing 40 times or more .... 

think bout that ....  ;)   my output will be 5 of those caps as per orignal design ...  i then CLOSE THE LOOP VIA 12VDC STEP DOWN ADAPTOR ...  excess goes to a 1.2kw invertor

THIS IS MY !CUBE

AKA THE GOLD RING

bla bla

ist!  ;)

no body wanted to fund me ..... so i spun the shit up ...   and now you caused the release of it ..

you now have PROOF!

and im telling you all i solved teleportation and transportation  and i can explain electricty what it actually is ...  369 you name it ...  i also have aquired special skills  ;)

so play games ... 

my words never changed ..  you were to blind to see..  :) :)

btw that video is jason ...   

and i would not doubt he is the owner of the picture that triggered me to design it .. 

anyone talk to jason anymore?   he should join in here !   

btw i mean no harm dissrespect or hard feelings toward anyone ...  even farra ... imagine ... 

there is something called FORGIVNESS WHERE WE COME FROM ...

its about you learning about creation ... and how you better respect it! or she is gonna bite you ...  ;D

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 04:51:11 AM
@gadgetmall,

Your 650 Farad capacitor can store maximum 2197 Joule =  0,61 Watt/Hour at 2,6 Volt.
If your JT did use 13mA/h @ 1,495 Volt, and it ran for 14 hours, then the total input
usage was 0,27 Watt/Hour. The total COP = 0,61 / 0,27 = 2,26.

Congratulations! :-)

With that high COP it should be possible to make a self run circuit.

Alex.
Good Gracious . Thank you so much for coming in Groundloop / Man i do respect your work . Yes its no problem with a small 5/1000th of volt loss . actually just hit it with the charged cap for a few seconds and the AA as back to the original 1.495 volts . Easily  done and i welcome replications and improvement .  This started when ist asked me to post  will a NORMAL jt charge one of these Bcaps . the Answer Is YES it will . several times over . But By accident and adjusting it to pull 13 ma from the start  and hooking up those secondary leds for an on indication the circuit likes ultracaps, a lot and rings good at the current windings .  I'M used to making a primary with lots of winding thus dropping the input current even further .. Like primary 50 /100 for the secondary  instead of this 11/22 . Lots of room for improvement and i want your help here please .And thank you so much for the Math . Did you take in account for the power dissipation  total from the pdf specs on the Maxwell web site for your joules calculation ? never mind i'll take you word . either way if you replicate you will see the exact same thing . I promise . We can use your help here if would . I need a Circuit that connects the charged Bcap to the primary battery for 5  to 6 seconds approximately 13 to 14 hours into the charge to make this circuit self run and produce light and After that Initial Hit  i then need the bcap to swing into operation so it can fire up nichrome wire producing Heat regulated by a thermal cut off  untile it reaches about 1 volt volts and ahalf . I can handle this . part . I think its just a matter of a555timer circuit connected to a mosfet to fed the primary and make up for the tiny loss during Charging period . >>??? then the process needs to start over again when the bcap reches about 1 volt or just below unity and charge it back up to 2.6 ,hit the primary aa  and then produce heat all this time the light is free as well . what do yall think? When i win . you all get a Share . or even better i will include the main group who have contributed constantly . i know and you know who you . i think its over 10,000dollars ??Could we use the Christmas money ?

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 04:59:10 AM
@gadgetmall,

I have some work ahead on a battery switch etc. but will try to get some super caps
and do a full replication on your circuits later on. I do have a 12,5 Volt Dynacap, do
you think it will work on Dynacaps also?

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 05:44:05 AM
@gadgetmall,

I have some work ahead on a battery switch etc. but will try to get some super caps
and do a full replication on your circuits later on. I do have a 12,5 Volt Dynacap, do
you think it will work on Dynacaps also?

Alex.
i am still experimenting with caps charging cap and in the third stage of swapping . i need to repeat that experiment because the cat jumped on the experiment and the charge cap got disconnected while the run cap discharged for hours but i continuied the experiment from there . I tried it with 4.7 farad 2.5 volts caps . they did not work one charged up as the primary to 2.5 volts and the other was i thin k 056 discharged .. the run cap stopped at .521 the 2n2222a limits and the charge cap never reached unity  and was 1 volt and a little more. i documented it all in pages 996 to current page in the JT thread . they did not work because there was not enuff run time amps in the little run cap .they need to be more that 2500 milliamps to show Ou in this simple JT / I think we can improve this with better windings and toroid and transistor and make the little caps work .What is the rating on yours?

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 22, 2009, 07:03:46 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg210029#msg210029

Gadget, you could theoretically use a knife switch to change the source from one capacitor to another, but having the capacitor in the configuration that it's in causes the battery to charge the capacitor while bypassing the transistor.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 22, 2009, 07:13:23 AM
@gadget

Did you try charging caps from the secondary ? with no basic jt led.

Or tried your tv disruptor jt .

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 07:50:09 AM
@gadget

Did you try charging caps from the secondary ? with no basic jt led.

Or tried your tv disruptor jt .
Months and montsh ago i Charge one in 8 hours  but it was not a plain jt like this one . This one will not charge off the secondary at all . it only charged on the C E junction and only with a diode . i used a 1n43 germanium becuae i got a bag of them and the voltage drop is like .4 volts . Like i said i know there is room for improvement but this Experiment Shows that anyone can build this and see for themselves that there is massive Ou . I know we can charge regular caps up to a higher voltage easy but its gone when you short it in a flat milisecond . these are like lithium batteries except the last a lifetime and produce a real current potential . you dont have to run heat . you can run motors or lights or anything really . how about like you said run another jt and charge another bcap .or run another jt from the secondary and charge a bcap . I have not tried that YET . To prove to these guys what they want to see  a self runner . somehow they thing ou is self runner . well this canbe a selfrunner also . right now . i just jump the bcap to the battery for a few seconds and the aa battery jumps up past the original operating voltage and current  :) this is why we need groundloop .

@jarad yes but they want something you dont touch . It will not be hard to do . just a momentary jump for 5 seconds every 13- 14 hours with this setup they will have Greay hair by the time the Led burns out . By the way i saw my first led burn out a true life  of 100,000hours ., I got this old PALLIGHT 15 years ago . it stays on so you can find it .and has one push on and another push bright bright and another push blink bright .  It stays lit for 2.5 years on a single 9 volt battery . you may have one of the old ones it runs off a 9 volt battery . well it finally burnt out 4 days ago. i replaced it with a new and she is good for another 15 years and 5 more 9 volt batteries :) thanks for the input jarado .

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 07:51:51 AM
Hi if your read then you know . Do you know what OU stands for . OVER UNITY .  what is unity in this case . Unity is the aa battery voltage and current / here i have a charged aa battery @ 1.495 volts .2500milliamps  I then charge an ultracapacitor  which  is a DIRECT REPLACEMENT FOR LITHIUM BATTERIES THAT PRODUCES 3500 AMPSSSSS of usable current  charged. THE battery cap IS charged TO 2.600 VOLTS @3500ampssssss  with a very small 5 1000's of a volt =aa battery is 1.490 AFTER THE BCAP IS CHARGED  THIS IS  OVER THE UNITY of THE SOURCE!!!! GET IT NOW >>> do you understand ?????

GADGET

You also said this in the now locked thread:
Quote
OK what is OU . Its Over UNity . What is Unity in this circuit . Its the AA battery start voltage  and amp. which was 1.495volts @ 2500mah . ok primary source . running a simple STANDARD Joule thief  circuit with a tank on the base . and a secondary of 22 turns for the leds. In this case you really dont have to have the leds . its a plus free energy . i use two .5 watt 5 chip leds . with the circuit adjusted to 13ma with teh ultracap 650farads 2.7 volts connected and discharged to .500 volts or a half a volt . the reason its at .500 volts is this is where transistors stop working and is the normal for my discharged caps . they dont work a Jt any more with a silicon transistor . I turn on the circuit . the Leds are approximately half bright . 14 hours later i have a full ultracapacitor with a causal 2.6 volts . I never charge these caps up to 2.7 volts the highest before they become extremely dangerous and could blow the pop off screw on the side / . Ok . So now we have a 2.6 volts with a maximum capacity of 3500 amps as per specs on the maxwell web site . before i  kill the circuit after looking at the run AA battery voltage it stands at 1.490  or 5/1000ths of a volt dropped and theleds are now 3/4 bright . too bright to stare at .. BUT ALSO i have 2,6 volts Charged in the Bcap At a VERY HIGH AMPERAGE well beyond the  tiny AA battery that burns nichrome wire . Simply Hit the AA battery for 5 seconds and the aa battery is well above its staring voltage . It's like hitting an aa battery with a 100 amp charger . Only for a sec the battery gets hot quick and charges up fast . Now . i still have 2.6  2. 5 volts to light up Nichrome Wire coil and get warm and light up a cigarette. This is way over the Unity of the run battery . See now ?

Gadget

To make sure I understand correctly, there are two things that need clarification:

1) Did you mean to say that the bcap starts off at a voltage of 0.5V before you begin charging it with your JT?

2) After your bcap is charged to 2.6V, you can then connect it briefly (5 or 6 seconds) to your AA rechargeable battery to give it a recharge?

Also, what is your background and formal education in electronics?

Thanks,
.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 08:07:29 AM
99

and not to come down on you ... 
but it is pointless...
i will explain why ..
there is only 1 reason you need this info  that is to deturman the used amount of engery ...
you did that gl did it confirm those #

all the rest is bs ..

this is why....  how many times did gadget flip it ...

NOW CHARGE THE DAMM THING FIRST LIKE I SAID ...

LET A SINGLE CHARGE BE FIRST CONSIDERED...  THEN THE DAMM THING HAS AN OFF AND ON SW on it

you still dont understand how 2 stage units operate ..

sorry ..  its the true ....


the whole thing is free but the first charge ... you may need to let it run 2 or 3 days to first charge it ..

and so what cuz in 1 min or less the source is compleatly replenished ..

and its still running ...

 :o :o :o :o

i have designs that will accomadate as many caps as you can afford from 1 ring ...  ;) ::) ::)

cant figure it out cannt build it ?   

well world im still poor .. same old game ...  i have not had my materials shipped i gave the world a head start ... cuz you need it ...  ;)

so i need to make some money then my work will begin  my stuff is payed for near 1000 bucks ...  likely over with the shipping ...  so what ..  i had to prove my shit to the world ...  and i choose gadget ... to be first as he helped me a great deal ...

in ordering all the required materials.. its all history on this site .. any how ..  you only need to read it thats all

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 08:39:59 AM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg210029#msg210029

Gadget, you could theoretically use a knife switch to change the source from one capacitor to another, but having the capacitor in the configuration that it's in causes the battery to charge the capacitor while bypassing the transistor.
No need to bypass anything especially the transistor . I took one alligator clip and jumped the charging cap to the run cap and it made the led get Brighter and the primary cap rose quickly a 10th of a volt in a two seconds . Works perfectly as is . all i need is  one wire controlled by a timer switch that closes in 14 hours for 5 seconds and this is a self runner with energy to spare .
. I wish you would replicate this someone quick . I am having a hard time convincing some people this is the most simplest over unity device ever devised probably in over 100 years . This is Ground breaking stuff and i wont be surprised if mib get in the way of this . really .i am on to this big time . free energy is HERE NOW!! promise .Ans IST is Right and has been all along . everything he needs now is making your dreams come true . Ist i know how you feel now trying to convince some one is hard and unless they actually build one they wont get it . i don't care if put videos up and post results there is always one  or 50 that will never get it . all you all need to get some ucaps before they kill the grid .i don't care where you get them just get them . invest in your future .buy your self a Christmas present . you wont regret it .

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 08:55:47 AM
You also said this in the now locked thread:
To make sure I understand correctly, there are two things that need clarification:

1) Did you mean to say that the bcap starts off at a voltage of 0.5V before you begin charging it with your JT?

2) After your bcap is charged to 2.6V, you can then connect it briefly (5 or 6 seconds) to your AA rechargeable battery to give it a recharge?

Also, what is your background and formal education in electronics?

Thanks,
.99
answer 1 and two correct and a timer is being built to hit the aa battery for 5 seconds and actually recharge it higher than it started also .
Answer for education . I graduated from high school and went  to college for two years the went on to open my own business and went another 2 years at a technical  college studying digital electronics and then went another year and got a degree for tv and radio repair this was in the 70's I repair tvs for 12 years at various shops and eventually went into m own repair business . I still repair electronics and even computer down to the component level . In 1983 i got my Amateur radio licenses and quickly became an advanced radio operator . i am still licensed today by the fcc and am a 2nd class technician . i went to various trade schools learning how to repair copiers and office equipment with various certificates (over 40 )  for repairing electronic office equipment and worked at at an office supply for 10 years as the service manager/master tech . after that i left and worked for Directv  and am now retired from that . I have over 37 years in the electronics /computer/satellite  field . How about you pony . what is your education ? Oh forgot to mention that in 2000 i got a grant and attended AIU for three quarters out of 8 to obtain mt bachelors Degree studying to become a certified It professional grad  . I was awarded an honorarily associates degree for life experiences . I dropped out when Asia was born to take care of her By Myself . I may still pick up where i left off in a few more years .i had a brain stroke three 1/2 years ago in my left frontal lobe and i should be dead but instead i had a brain storm and started inventing Gadgets .. I built a multivibrator inverter in the 8th grad when everyone else in the class was building electromagnet coils :)
I had my first high powered solar electric system  20 years ago . i still have one . I have wind generators and blades and i am highly active in the free energy field . and You ?

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 09:15:45 AM
holy all that  convencial training gadget!!  holy crap!  and you still figured this out ... 

what in the heck is the rest of the worlds excuse... lol  i thought cuz there mindless training .. but you just shoot that theroie to heck

well i banged nails ...  ;D  got me a grade 10  :D

still think you right off the plannet ...  :D

lol

ist!

im pretty sure i have done this a time or 2 lol  ;)  more than likely on a few planets in many univirses ...  :)

who knows this may be my job ..  ;D
 i have herd earth has a rep for a really bumpy landing ... and some never recover ... it is most likely the most unbalanced rock out there ... this is why we all are here ... 

i was intervineed on ... as i was gone this explains my dreams ... the operations they did on me
and such  ..  i knew it was the fedration as they were kind calm and my lil ali was there and it was maybe my sun doing it ... i have no idea what they did but  but it was not in the 3rd demention ..

i have in my opinion guides in my ears undetectable buy human teck ! they grew in apeared as bumps .. there there still there now .. they are located in the top part of my ears ...

this is not all....... a long time ago when my ring was taken the gold 1  .. i pulled an inplant out of my ear .. it was some funny looking thing it had a flat ribbon ant on it and a tiny black ball at the end ..
when i found this i was freqed .. i threw it out ...

case and point as much as you want to think you are alone out there your worng im your proof ..

and you need not look far for proof.. there are many more here on this site right now ...

i just wish they would have disclosed first .. they didnt ... so i backed up my shit with proof it will take some time for them to understand   then agin i have no idea what has gone on in special ops and such ...

so im sure they know almost all i have figured so far... i think they missed a few things along the way ..  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 09:25:24 AM
@gadgetmall,

My Dynacaps are 10 Farad 2,5 Volt each (Elna Type: DZ-2R5D106T).

I will try to make a circuit that do what you have outlined. Run and charge super cap until
the cap reach 2,6 Volt. Then charge the input battery for 5-6 seconds from super cap. Then
dump the super cap into load until voltage is down to 1 volt. Then repeat. Is this correct?

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 03:52:19 PM
@gadgetmall,

My Dynacaps are 10 Farad 2,5 Volt each (Elna Type: DZ-2R5D106T).

I will try to make a circuit that do what you have outlined. Run and charge super cap until
the cap reach 2,6 Volt. Then charge the input battery for 5-6 seconds from super cap. Then
dump the super cap into load until voltage is down to 1 volt. Then repeat. Is this correct?

Alex.
yes that is Experiment 2 just with bcaps . experiment 1 was with a battery . iI don't see why you cant use a rechargeable aaa battery either for Experiment 1 with smaller capacitor I used a rechargeable Everready Ni-mh 2500 mah . i guess you could also use a c or d cell also and might see even better results .BUT i did Experiment 3 . It is a duplicate of experiment 2 using 4.7 farad 2.5 volt Dynacaps"supercaps "already . it did not work on this standard jt and the primary cap died at .521 while the charge cap reached a little over 1 volt . it did not reach unity .So i would say your experiment will fail but you will see it charge a bit before the primary cap discharged . there is something special about these ultracapcitors . for one they hold Massive amounts of Amperage or joules or whatever/ Unlike a super capacitor they have liquid electrolyte in them (2milliliiters of very highly poision) . And also they are Direct replacements for a Lithium battery . one of the strongest in Hybrid cars.
gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 04:13:25 PM
holy all that  convencial training gadget!!  holy crap!  and you still figured this out ... 

what in the heck is the rest of the worlds excuse... lol  i thought cuz there mindless training .. but you just shoot that theroie to heck

well i banged nails ...  ;D  got me a grade 10  :D

still think you right off the plannet ...  :D

lol

ist!

im pretty sure i have done this a time or 2 lol  ;)  more than likely on a few planets in many univirses ...  :)

who knows this may be my job ..  ;D
 i have herd earth has a rep for a really bumpy landing ... and some never recover ... it is most likely the most unbalanced rock out there ... this is why we all are here ... 

i was intervineed on ... as i was gone this explains my dreams ... the operations they did on me
and such  ..  i knew it was the fedration as they were kind calm and my lil ali was there and it was maybe my sun doing it ... i have no idea what they did but  but it was not in the 3rd demention ..

i have in my opinion guides in my ears undetectable buy human teck ! they grew in apeared as bumps .. there there still there now .. they are located in the top part of my ears ...

this is not all....... a long time ago when my ring was taken the gold 1  .. i pulled an inplant out of my ear .. it was some funny looking thing it had a flat ribbon ant on it and a tiny black ball at the end ..
when i found this i was freqed .. i threw it out ...

case and point as much as you want to think you are alone out there your worng im your proof ..

and you need not look far for proof.. there are many more here on this site right now ...

i just wish they would have disclosed first .. they didnt ... so i backed up my shit with proof it will take some time for them to understand   then agin i have no idea what has gone on in special ops and such ...

so im sure they know almost all i have figured so far... i think they missed a few things along the way ..  ;)
Hey Buddy . IST all the training in the world didn't matter when it comes to free energy now does it? And it really comes down to Show me  also . Thank you for asking me about charging the ucap . if you didn't ask me i would not have did what i did and looked at the voltages like i did. nor opened my eyes to we have here .
gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 04:51:21 PM
g

your the last one i will ever be angry with .. 

i know you know better ...

but it is thease ones that think they know sooo much ...

and it is not at all like i know soooo much ... i simply choose to learn as much as i can ..

since i plainly ignored this great creation prior to knowing ..

i gave it all for this 1 thing in ordor to share it with everyone ..

or elese who would have.. ?   i ve knowen how this works some time ..

almost 1 year ago now this info was sent to germany.....

the fet curcit wich is still not public... 

 :o :o :o :o

this world knows me  i was offered 300bil some time ago...  ;)

sell out or save a few good souls... i made my choise!

william filsinger!

but i live on about as much as your uint runs on ... nuttin ..  ;D  im still here and we won ..

plus i just know the children .. are my lightning bugs!  ;)

it aint the old ones .. that cant climb out of there box .. its the children !  duh ;D


i wonder if my children above me burnt out the portor yet...  :D :D

you see when i solved this ... big things happined up there  ;)

i think there a few ships full of your light bodys wateing to return to your body ...

mine already has ...   8) 

the humans go unity...  they are kept a close eye  by the overunity gardians...  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 05:24:19 PM
you guys see all the ufo's up there ... lol  there is no way in hell they were all built on earth...

lol

not in this time line...

if you have not seen or choose to be unaware ...

there are some tricks that allow you to see them ...  hundreds and hundreds ... in a few seconds ...

i saw a video where they used the sun to see them just blinded by the roof just enough and at the right angle ..  boom there they are ...

 8)

i may add the video ...  ;D

w

those are fire flys....

and if farra dont quit pissing out side  ;)  there gonna show up! 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 22, 2009, 05:33:17 PM
Hi,

Does anyone want to share their favorite JT video link?

I haven't seen many JT videos yet, but this one catches my interest,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFW1d5G6NnM

What do you think?

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 05:53:43 PM
Hi,

Does anyone want to share their favorite JT video link?

I haven't seen many JT videos yet, but this one catches my interest,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFW1d5G6NnM

What do you think?

Regards,
Paul
we all watched that in the beginning of the Jt thread .that video is from Evil mad scientist for newbe's. It belongs in the other thread . this is An advanced Thread for people that have already built 100's of Jts and can build them with our eyes closed  .

regards
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 06:01:47 PM
Thanks for answering my questions.

MileHigh made a post suggesting that OU can not be determined unless you make proper measurements. From what I have read, it would seem that these type of measurements have not been performed?

Another thing I would suggest, is to replace your AA battery with another ultra-cap if you have not already done this. One thing that would need to be verified while doing these experiments with capacitors, is the actual capacitance values.

By replacing the AA battery with a capacitor, you can quite easily determine how much energy is being supplied (and later put back with your 5 second recharge), and of course how much energy went into the charge capacitor.

Now, if we go back to Groundloop's calculation:

@gadgetmall,

Your 650 Farad capacitor can store maximum 2197 Joule =  0,61 Watt/Hour at 2,6 Volt.
If your JT did use 13mA/h @ 1,495 Volt, and it ran for 14 hours, then the total input
usage was 0,27 Watt/Hour. The total COP = 0,61 / 0,27 = 2,26.

Congratulations! :-)

With that high COP it should be possible to make a self run circuit.

Alex.

We now know that it needs to be revised due to the 0.5V starting voltage on the capacitor. This is 0.5V in 650F worth of energy that wasn't put there by the JT circuit over those 14 hours, and must be subtracted from the total. At about 81J it isn't much, but it should be accounted for. The COP now comes to about 2.18.

Notwithstanding the 2.18 value, it would be very prudent to replace the AA with a suitable capacitor of known value in order that the precise energy supplied can be derived. A meter on the 1 Ohm shunt may not be accurate, and the current may not be constant over time due to changes in loading as the capacitor charges.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 06:09:37 PM
Thanks for answering my questions.

MileHigh made a post suggesting that OU can not be determined unless you make proper measurements. From what I have read, it would seem that these type of measurements have not been performed?

Another thing I would suggest, is to replace your AA battery with another ultra-cap if you have not already done this. One thing that would need to be verified while doing these experiments with capacitors, is the actual capacitance values.

By replacing the AA battery with a capacitor, you can quite easily determine how much energy is being supplied (and later put back with your 5 second recharge), and of course how much energy went into the charge capacitor.

Now, if we go back to Groundloop's calculation:

We now know that it needs to be revised due to the 0.5V starting voltage on the capacitor. This is 0.5V in 650F worth of energy that wasn't put there by the JT circuit over those 14 hours, and must be subtracted from the total. At about 81J it isn't much, but it should be accounted for. The COP now comes to about 2.18.

Notwithstanding the 2.18 value, it would be very prudent to replace the AA with a suitable capacitor of known value in order that the precise energy supplied can be derived. A meter on the 1 Ohm shunt may not be accurate, and the current may not be constant over time due to changes in loading as the capacitor charges.

.99
Hi .thanks for the math but i don't care about COP . Its still overunity . And Its apparent you haven't read from page 996 to the current page on the Jt thread or you wold know these test have already been done .
Regards
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 06:20:13 PM
You may call it what you will, OU, COP>1, it's semantics, but I'd rather not get into that can of worms, it's been opened too many times already.

Your diagram shows a AA battery, and there are references in previous posts to using a run capacitor. So what was the conclusion using the run capacitors? You didn't like them, or they didn't produce the effect or result you had with the AA battery? If so, why do you suppose that is?

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 06:27:43 PM
Hi,

Does anyone want to share their favorite JT video link?

I haven't seen many JT videos yet, but this one catches my interest,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFW1d5G6NnM

What do you think?

Regards,
Paul

yes he has done a great job!!

love the edit!!  plainly tells dozzies how to do it!

funny he repeats eh!  WAKE UP ... I CAN FIND YOU CURRENTLY OVER 5000 YOUTUBE VIDEOS .. i can explain ...  ;)

he's no fool but agin this is NOT THE SAME AS THAT UNIT! 

AS WELL YOU GUYS ARE STILL HUNG UP ON JUNK... 

maybe i should build the gate keeper ... 3 phase ....

my my !

ist

then you use my power can! as a supply  for the gate keeper ..

and you all thought i was STUPID! lol

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 06:28:25 PM
You may call it what you will, OU, COP>1, it's semantics, but I'd rather not get into that can of worms, it's been opened too many times already.

Your diagram shows a AA battery, and there are references in previous posts to using a run capacitor. So what was the conclusion using the run capacitors? You didn't like them, or they didn't produce the effect or result you had with the AA battery? If so, why do you suppose that is?

.99
Read . Experiment 2 part three . Its the third Swap of the Bcaps alone .Ongoing
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 06:34:59 PM
You may call it what you will, OU, COP>1, it's semantics, but I'd rather not get into that can of worms, it's been opened too many times already.

Your diagram shows a AA battery, and there are references in previous posts to using a run capacitor. So what was the conclusion using the run capacitors? You didn't like them, or they didn't produce the effect or result you had with the AA battery? If so, why do you suppose that is?

.99

you know what dink!

i never 1 time picked up a pencial to work out this math

you have pissed me off i now will

and i hope your fucking ready!

william

you realize i lost marks in school for doing algbra in my head ...  ;)   just too lazy to write out all the bullshit!

it was rare my answers were wrong ...  but i was never given full marks ...  as i never would write the shit for them !

clear this up right now ....!

1 you can not accuartly calculate output! impossible!  my god i dont need to explain why do i ?

if the thing runs for ever seams like a damm long time  to get your output results .... dont it?!?!?!?!?!

now you can easly calculate input ... 5/1000's over 14 hours .. ?  1.5v  and honestly the petty .00000000001 volts dont make a lick of diffrasnce

calculate exactually the ampount of engery to charge the cap ...

i will prove you methods of figureing this out properly wrong too ... !

dont get me started years ago i prove your calculation of horse power bullshit!

 :P

99  sorry to steam on ya ...  but do the damm math correctly or leave it alone !
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 22, 2009, 06:43:33 PM
Another thing I would suggest, is to replace your AA battery with another ultra-cap if you have not already done this. One thing that would need to be verified while doing these experiments with capacitors, is the actual capacitance values.

By replacing the AA battery with a capacitor, you can quite easily determine how much energy is being supplied (and later put back with your 5 second recharge), and of course how much energy went into the charge capacitor.
you know, i always see you guys say something along these lines... i am curious as to why in all the width and breadth of science, there isn't a decent, reliable method to determine how much energy a battery has supplied... you always fall back on these 'battery vagaries' claims. why don't you leave the battery alone, stop replacing components with similar but different ones while pretending it changes nothing and just measure how much energy is being supplied?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 06:56:02 PM
you know, i always see you guys say something along these lines... i am curious as to why in all the width and breadth of science, there isn't a decent, reliable method to determine how much energy a battery has supplied... you always fall back on these 'battery vagaries' claims. why don't you leave the battery alone, stop replacing components with similar but different ones and pretending it changes nothing and just measure how much energy is being supplied.

ty will !

the hell u been ?   sheesh   can you learn them to calculate properly ... so we can then teach them how it works

sheesh   you cant even just give them free engery you got to school them tooo and teach them to count agin


if i had a known   i never would have done this ..

this is truely a waste of time ...  THIS IS MY STARTER .... NOTHING MORE ... IT CAN AND WILL BE MADE THE IST POWER CAN AND WILL POWER MANY THINGS ...

once the engery has gone from the aa to the cap ... that is all that need be calculated ..

the rest of the unit is self powering  :o :o :o :o

now please calculate ...  1 cycle ... of the recharge cap .. come to a conclusion ...  engery used .. engery gained in cap ...   over a peroid of time ...

as soon as this correct # is drawn ...  we than can calculate ...  1 charge cycle of the stage 2 driving cap   this cap may need to be cycled a few times through stage 2 to fill the caps the first time ...

so that being said ..  we now have a # of engery used to compleat 1 cycle ...  the device will consume this much from the aa everytime this cycle is compleated ... 

ok

so lets asy it takes 10 cycles to activated this device ...   this should be no problem to calculate the inputted engery .. # x 10  simple  right ... 

now throw the starter AWAY IT IS NEVER NEEDED AGIN IN THIS DESIGN ...

so you can throw your cop mesurement out da winda too!  :P

ist!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 06:59:15 PM
OK, so far we have:
            Experiment 2 : same JT as before . using a 650farad cap charged to 1.420 volts charging another 650 Farad cap to a charged state of 1.000 volts . This was to save some time and Confirm Over the unity of the run cap . Circuit adjusted to 11 ma input current .

So far the charge bcap is 1.257 and the RUN cap is 1.417 V .
i will stop the experiment when i get the charge capacitor to 1.5 volts . this will be over unity . then i will swap the run and charge Bcap and measure what i have then.. This is a very simple way of showing  Over the unity (OU) Exist .

and this:

     Just got back from town and want to give an update to Experiment 2 . the charge cap is 1.498 !!! and the run Bcap is 1.178 test complete . So conclusion on the first half of this experiment is YES there is an Over the unity of the run ultracap . Big time . now i am going to switch them and see if the run cap will go to 1.400 again to match what i started with or higher .
I am also making a replication  exactly like this original jt and try it with two small "supercaps" 4.7 farads @2.5 volts and see if i get the same effect . somehow i dont think so . we will see
Gadget

I'm afraid that your conclusions about this setup being OU is incorrect. You have been able to charge one cap from another cap over and over, seemingly with no loss, but there is indeed a loss. The choice of such large capacitors is delaying the inevitable outcome that each time you transfer energy or charge from one cap to the other, there is a small loss, and the amount of loss depends on the efficiency of the transfer.

What you are doing here is simply transferring energy/charge from one capacitor to another, and the fact that you are doing it with a highly inductive circuit at a very low rate of charge, makes it quite efficient, but not above 100%. In theory it is possible to transfer this energy with no loss, but since there is always a small amount of resistance in the coils being used and losses in the transistor, the efficiency will always be less than 100%.

Sorry, but your claim to the OU prize won't be successful with this circuit.

.99

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 07:23:47 PM
I would encourage you, and anyone else interested to have a close look at the attached pdf document, which outlines in greater detail what I mentioned in my previous post.

In summary, it appears you are shuttling energy/charge back and forth between two capacitors, and there is nothing too novel about this. Done with care, one can achieve quite high efficiencies, on the order of 95% or so, but it is in no way OU.

Read the document, it is relevant to the topic at hand here.

.99

PS. Sorry I had to zip it as it was slightly over the 300k size limit when uncompressed.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 07:24:40 PM
pony you suck ...

i have explained it as have others ...

i can put 500 1000v 1amp bridges on 1 coil ... 

my coils are tuned ...

and i can fill 500 caps ...  from 1 aa

 ;)


do you know how .. ? ;D  you should by now ....  i only explained it many times ... 

pony  you want something you cant explain ... and i already have ? 

go build otto adv !  :D  and if it burns your house down cuz it ran away on ya ... dont come crying to me ...  ;)

as above so is below  as is below so is above ...  ;)

now go ask why i have done what i have ... 

i like earth not so crispy ...  ;)  ya know....   

silly humans ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 07:29:41 PM
@gadgetmall,

I have looked into your proposal of an automated discharge circuit for your setup.

The Cadsoft Eagle design files can be found here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/JT-01.rar

First I must stress that I have not yet build this circuit, but it may work as planned.

Here is how it is supposed to work:

The JT runs and charge up the super capacitor. When the voltage over the super cap
reach 2.6 Volt then the SCR (T1) will get enough trigger voltage and will start dumping
the charge in the super cap to the load. Since I have tried to make this circuit KISS,
then the continuous current into the load must not exceed 5 Ampere. When the super cap
charge is gone then the SCR(T1) will stop dumping charge to the load.

Now the other SCR(T2). When the voltage in the PWR battery starts to drop under a
preset threshold (R4) then the SCR(T2) will dump some charge into the battery. When
the PWR battery gains voltage then the current through the SCR(T2) will be gone and
SCR(T2) will stop dumping charge to PWR. This will keep the PWR topped up at all time.

Can you test this circuit? If it turns out that it will work, then I can order some pcbs
for us to make a proper good looking circuit. If you do not have the TIC106's or is not
able to find them, just PM me an snail mail address and I will send you some TIC106.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 07:35:44 PM
gl wow!

you rock ... 

dont waste time like the fools ...

the sad part i solved all this with out running many coils ...  ;)

now i look at others work and tell them where they went wrong  ;)

or offer congrats  !  or i scratch my head till i figure it out ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 07:41:37 PM
William,

Thanks.

We will need this circuit also. If it turns out OK then I will make
enough pcbs so that many people can replicate this.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 07:44:26 PM
you make boards ?

are you in ontario?

we need to talk ..

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 07:48:56 PM
William,

I'm from Norway.

If you want to talk then just PM me an email address and I will contact you.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 22, 2009, 07:54:01 PM
Groundloop:

Nice looking circuit there.  I sure hope it works for what Gadget wants to do.  If it does, that would put the icing on the cake in my opinion...total hands off and just runs and runs.

Beautiful work man, well done.

Thank you.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 08:20:35 PM
Hi Bill,

Thanks.

That is my hope too.
We need some o/u fast and will do my part as best as I can.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 22, 2009, 08:48:28 PM
Gl nice circuit but I have a question. The booster cap doesn't seem to discharge if no load is attached in your circuit, meaning it will keep on charging without unloading or am I mistaken? I think it would be safer to completely stop the JT if both bcap and battery are at their maximum voltage, waiting for the user to attach a load.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 08:57:21 PM
@broli,

I see what you mean. It was my goal to use as few parts as possible
to keep the circuit KISS. If you want to stop the JT from charging
when the super caps is full then just add a NPN transistor at the base
of the 2N2222. The NPN transistor can be biased from the super cap
voltage so that the 2N2222 base will be brought to ground when the
super cap reach 2,6 Volt. This will stop the JT oscillation.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 22, 2009, 09:02:58 PM
@broli,

I see what you mean. It was my goal to use as few parts as possible
to keep the circuit KISS. If you want to stop the JT from charging
when the super caps is full then just add a NPN transistor at the base
of the 2N2222. The NPN transistor can be biased from the super cap
voltage so that the 2N2222 base will be brought to ground when the
super cap reach 2,6 Volt. This will stop the JT oscillation.

Alex.

I understand but imagine you leave this on overnight for benchmarking and something happens with the load or connection (like gadget's cat  ;D ), now the bcap will keep charging past its 2.6 limit and potentially explode or cause a fire.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on November 22, 2009, 09:10:55 PM
We're going to fly with this JT guys  ;D look at this video it's a toroid invention too to antigravity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSHD9rJWHiE
Enjoy.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 09:14:08 PM
@broli,

If you have some good ideas on how to prevent that, just post them and I will update
the circuit.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 22, 2009, 09:34:44 PM
I'm embarrassed to say that my electronic knowledge is very basic so I can't recommend or make specific changes.
 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 09:40:35 PM
I can make it . I have to order the scrs and a couple of the diodes . One thing . the Charge Capacitor will of coarse charge over the unity of the Run Battery . I wound use a battery in the run circuit because this is the first place i saw OU produced .. So Assuming 1.495 volts @ 2500 ma and a charged cap just at 2.000 is enuff to bump the small loss of the battery ...thus it continues until we engage the thermal control or Engage the output to run Lights  and/or heat  to once we reach 2.6 . can this be adjustable ? or is it already ? we dont need a fully charged bcap to win the OU contest . As it stands its way to much ou  at 2,6  Ou . Anyone can see that . so this is why i ask to get the prize for the contributors and THEN improve the design later . I can take just one wire from the charged Bcap and hit the pos  if the input for a few seconds to restore the self run portion . Couldnt we just use for now a mosfet or scr controlled by a 555 timer timed to trigger the ,mosfet /scr for a few seconds or is this not possible without programming like apic or something ? Anyways give be a bit of time to gather the parts i dont have and i will put it together and see if this will work . with my original Experiment 1 using the AA battery to achieve Ou of the source then smake it with a burst to the primary with one wire only thus a self runner . and use the heat on demand . I can put a zenar on the charge so it dont over charge  ???

@Pony this is not a cap. anyone can charge a cap off of a Jt . i have charged one up to over 200 volts . But no work is done with them .this is not ou . ou is the ability to charge a high amperage power supply source . Heat demonstrates Ou in My setup along with the LIGHT . You build it / You have no idea what you are talking about because you have not built it.I have . I know what ou is . Its here . try and land 3500 amps or 107 amps continuous from your aa battery . YOU CANT!!with out this replication circuit .And Sir you Never answered My Question about your education and life experienced ?what's up with that ? Not knocking yo but you keep knocking me and you haven't even bruit on . No one has but be . Where are all the 80,000 ultracaps i sold . some here has a pile of them I cannot believe that i Gave you all a true OVER  UNITY DEVICE and you don't build it ? most don't realize that this can be scaled up to a very high voltage and ext ream amperage/joules to power anything in your house . . O well . i don;t care about it . Ist will be it . he owns the parts to do it . We have gave you all what you wanted and you continue  on and on and on knocking down what is already a fact . BUILD IT > anyways i will win this prize  and i will share it with ist jeanna mark jim bill xee2 groundloop and a few more that come to mind later . they are the contributors of My heater projects .
gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 22, 2009, 09:51:37 PM
We're going to fly with this JT guys  ;D look at this video it's a toroid invention too to antigravity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSHD9rJWHiE
Enjoy.
Did anybody note the iron filings in oil art piece I posted somewhere. It is just like some of those shots.
It was sort of like the rug symbols... bo a lot like them.
j
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Peterae on November 22, 2009, 09:57:27 PM
You could use a low voltage motor driven gearbox powered by your secondary instead of an led, drive a couple of half circles as cams and flip 2 micro switches to swap over the charge and supply caps
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 09:57:57 PM
@Pony this is not a cap. anyone can charge a cap off of a Jt . i have charged one up to over 200 volts . But no work is done with them .this is not ou . ou is the ability to charge a high amperage power supply source . Heat demonstrates Ou in My setup along with the LIGHT . You build it / You have no idea what you are talking about because you have not built it.I have . I know what ou is . Its here . try and land 3500 amps or 107 amps continuous from your aa battery . YOU CANT!!with out this replication circuit .
gadget

On the contrary, I have a very good handle on what I am talking about. It required about 5 minutes of study to understand how this circuit works. Then I realized with your capacitor tests, you were simply transferring charge between either a battery and capacitor, or from capacitor to capacitor.

Either case, this is not overunity, and thus far no one has shown with any reasonable evidence that it is. Make some proper measurements, and understand what this circuit is actually doing before jumping the gun with an OU prize application. The JT and its derivatives, is simply a boost converter.

I would encourage you and all here to study the suggestions given here by myself and others.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 22, 2009, 09:58:07 PM
@gadgetmall,

I did try to design the circuit to meet your requirements.

>>can this be adjustable ? or is it already ?

Yes, you can adjust the two pots. One for the charge dump voltage level and
one for the feed back charge dump to run battery.

>>Couldnt we just use for now a mosfet or scr controlled by a 555 timer timed to
>>trigger the ,mosfet /scr for a few seconds or is this not possible without
>>programming like a pic or something ?

If we use too many pats then you will use up all the o/u you get. I have tried to
design the circuit to use no current at all when inactive.

The circuit may need some "tweaking" and change of resistor values to
get it to work. When (if) it works then I can update the circuit drawings and make
some pcbs for this project.

Alex.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 10:25:33 PM
@gadgetmall,

I did try to design the circuit to meet your requirements.

>>can this be adjustable ? or is it already ?

Yes, you can adjust the two pots. One for the charge dump voltage level and
one for the feed back charge dump to run battery.

>>Couldnt we just use for now a mosfet or scr controlled by a 555 timer timed to
>>trigger the ,mosfet /scr for a few seconds or is this not possible without
>>programming like a pic or something ?

If we use too many pats then you will use up all the o/u you get. I have tried to
design the circuit to use no current at all when inactive.

The circuit may need some "tweaking" and change of resistor values to
get it to work. When (if) it works then I can update the circuit drawings and make
some pcbs for this project.

Alex.
thank you Alex for getting evolved and taking the time to contribute to the prize project  . I am not sterring you wrong . i promise . this isnt like anything i have seen every . I will get a proto solder board from the shack tomorrow and start on the pats that i have while i order several sets of all the required pieces . Many many thank yous ..

@pony . ? I appreciate you comments but i have enough now and i am going to win this . 100% positive . yes that's bold  so you better know i mean business . I wont argue anymore with you . it don't matter whether  the charge cap has 0 volts (which the never do) or half a volt . it will go ou either way . .500 volts is where they normally sit around here as they stop working  silicon hence .5 is where i will start My next repete of the  same Experiment 1 and 2 . today !! and as far as measurements i did all that is needed before . I will log it this time  on paper and video .i'll borrow someones high speed to upload it but its pointless doing that because there is always some one somewhere that says is a fake and its no ou Bla bla bla like ist says :)    .



thats a great idea Peterae about the motor on the secondary . the only way i see that working is with a cap r/c discharge circuit that inches a cam to the micros . Build it . its a good idea and there is no loss in the secondary circuit  thank you for the input
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 10:32:03 PM
99 take the time read the 1000 pages ....

then go write the book  ;)

ok

we are the reserchers ...  if you want cold undisputiable proof   ill grab pattends from my last time around this silly rock ...

if you think this is something ...  lol  you got 1000 more comeing  ;D   no worrie gary is on the "G"  lol

imagine .....  ;)  oooo  whats g  ya say ...  just unlocks all tesla...  ;D :o

look around....  i solved this years ago ... posted all public ...  lol

pony pays 300$ to be a judge ... but he had no idea what he signed up for  ;D  lmao

have fun !  :D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 10:39:01 PM
@pony . ? I appreciate you comments but i have enough now and i am going to win this . 100% positive . yes that's bold  so you better know i mean business . I wont argue anymore with you . it don't matter whether  the charge cap has 0 volts (which the never do) or half a volt . it will go ou either way . .500 volts is where they normally sit around here as they stop working  silicon hence .5 is where i will start My next repete of the  same Experiment 1 and 2 . today !! and as far as measurements i did all that is needed before . I will log it this time  on paper and video .i'll borrow someones high speed to upload it but its pointless doing that because there is always some one somewhere that says is a fake and its no ou Bla bla bla like ist says :)

You're welcome to try for the OU prize. I'll give you that. But I don't agree that you've provided sufficient evidence to merit it, and in the end, you'll see that this is true. Good luck.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 10:46:20 PM
you dont need there prize gadget!   

lol

125 a kit ... you list them ill build them ...

lol

and who knows perhaps we become so busy ...  this site is left in dust ...  ;D

o right and no pattends are gained ...

o right we havent even pulled out our prize chess player  card yet ...  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MileHigh on November 22, 2009, 10:46:33 PM
@All:

I am just going to back up .99's comments.  I have read quite a few of Gadget's postings and looked at his schematic.  Gadget has not done anything even remotely close to proving that this is an over unity device.  The most basic measurements of power out vs. power in or energy out vs energy in have not been done.  In addition to this, Gadget is not capable of articulating what the circuit is doing in a proper manner and it is very obvious that his understanding of electronics is very limited.

I would strongly advise anyone contemplating spending the money and time to replicate this device to not do so - you will be wasting your time.  As an alternative, you should encourage Gadget to back up his claims with real measurements proving his claim.  Personally I don't believe that Gadget is capable of doing this.

This is nothing more than another "false alarm" where somebody gets all excited about a JT-like circuit that charges a capacitor using a discharging inductor going through a diode.  There is nothing here.

Some of you may remember the "Imhotep" excitement where there was a huge buzz over turning a computer fan into a small Bedini motor.  The name of the thread was "Free energy at last - A must see" or something like that.  Imhotep became a "rock star" but nothing he and his wife ever posted came even remotely close to being a free energy device.

I encourage all of you that are contemplating replications to just sit back and chill for a long time and see what happens.  I assure you that you will be wasting your time and money.  Instead demand that Gadget prove his claim first.  That would be the wisest course of action.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 10:52:56 PM
the question then becomes who has the proof and who wants the proof ...

after 1000 pages and many leds lit ...  from an aa ...  you need more proof!!

fool

ist!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 22, 2009, 10:55:50 PM
You are promoting something this forum isn't about. People should perform experiments when they have the time no matter what is claimed, this is how experience and knowledge is gained not by sitting and chilling.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 22, 2009, 10:58:30 PM
On the contrary, I have a very good handle on what I am talking about. It required about 5 minutes of study to understand how this circuit works. Then I realized with your capacitor tests, you were simply transferring charge between either a battery and capacitor, or from capacitor to capacitor.

Either case, this is not overunity, and thus far no one has shown with any reasonable evidence that it is. Make some proper measurements, and understand what this circuit is actually doing before jumping the gun with an OU prize application. The JT and its derivatives, is simply a boost converter.

I would encourage you and all here to study the suggestions given here by myself and others.

.99
you cannot charge an ultracap up  with a plain AA battery . I did that test also . i tookl a fully charged aa battery and jumped a bcap that was setting at .5 and the batt ery got hot and was dead in 5 minutes and the cap never thought about charging . just a tiny bit nothing . it never reached unity much less OU /same thing with cap to cap . It sees batteries and batteries chargers as a DEAD SHORT .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MileHigh on November 22, 2009, 11:03:02 PM
IST:

Quote
after 1000 pages and many leds lit ...  from an aa ...  you need more proof!!

That statement means absolutely nothing and yes I and everyone reading this should demand that Gadget show some proof that he has over unity.  He doesn't have it and it is extremely unlikely that he is capable of proving it.  That's the case for you also.

Broli:

Quote
People should perform experiments when they have the time no matter what is claimed, this is how experience and knowledge is gained not by sitting and chilling.

There are the right ways to learn and there are the wrong ways to learn.  Spending a hundred dollars and hundreds of hours building and testing something that doesn't even work is not the right way to learn.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 11:07:29 PM
maybe you cought a clue .....


DEAD SHORT!!

gadget is first!   

 ;D

ist

you think this is neat waite till i tell you about orbit ...  ;) and how to make it self oscolate ...

with a single charge ...  imagine 875 amp in osc... lol

with out control crcuitry ...

you do not know what i have learned  ;)

w814

gadget cap resistance please .. if you have it handy ....   now figure that into consideration  :D :o

may the resistance play a big roll ?   it sure does with diodes ...  ;)  lol
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 22, 2009, 11:12:55 PM
In all fairness MileHigh, the JT is a pretty cool circuit, and I have no qualms at all about people building and playing around with them to improve their efficiency etc. This is a good learning tool for those wanting to explore DC-DC converters and SMPS circuits etc.

However, my eyes do perk up :o when I see extraordinary claims being made about these ordinary circuits, and it's wrong for people to be misled about them.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 22, 2009, 11:16:22 PM
99

i told you i got perfect sine ...  thats ac ....  duh...   680 v scoped...

from pulsed dc   so drop the its just dc crap your words are un true!

w

as i said you can go read my every word ...  pictures are there videos are there explanations are there ... all is there ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: samedsoft on November 22, 2009, 11:33:06 PM
IST

  I appreciate your work. Can you let me know where is your videos located?

  Also where is the circuit diagram?

  Just draw it or picture it or take a video.

   Then we understand what you are trying to teach us?

  Thanks, sorry for bad english accent.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 12:02:04 AM
IST:

That statement means absolutely nothing and yes I and everyone reading this should demand that Gadget show some proof that he has over unity.  He doesn't have it and it is extremely unlikely that he is capable of proving it.  That's the case for you also.

Broli:

There are the right ways to learn and there are the wrong ways to learn.  Spending a hundred dollars and hundreds of hours building and testing something that doesn't even work is not the right way to learn.

MileHigh
I am already building a couple units to send to stefan . Ther will be self running heaters /lights from a 1 volt battery and will run until the life of the battery is exhausted about 4-6 years at which time you just pop in a new one freshely charged and good to go again . Its eating you guts up isnt it . That  I am going to win. and all your efforst with tpus and other stuff doesnt come close to a real working unit that provides power from nothing  . I know perfectly well what i am doing ,seeing and measuring . The problem is you Guys are just simple minded flamers unless you take the time to make one . ARE you all That BROKE ? When i win you guys better apologize to IST and I . I proved what i need to win and now i am going to go to the one who is higher than all of you who is holding the contest . he will see i guarantee it . I just want my units back . so very simple to make Except for the control board Gl and i are working on to hit the battery every so often to make it self run without touching it with a  tiny portion of the surplus 2.6 volts 3500 amps / THIS WILL FRY  WIRE BUD > from 5/1000th volts loss  from the 2500 ma AA battery to the massive storage of energy from the ultracap It's Visible . I don't go out on the limb unless i know its a sure thing . Because this simple demonstration can be built blindfolded you all negative people should be ashamed you have not even attempted to replicate it / So be it .. you keep saying show it but you don't make an effort to disprove me with a replication . I showed it . now im showing to win .and only two people make that decision . not you .
regards

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 23, 2009, 12:15:26 AM
gadget when you redo the experiments can you put it in a simple bar chart at the beginning of this thread.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 12:21:31 AM
I am already building a couple units to send to stefan . Ther will be self running heaters /lights from a 1 volt battery and will run until the life of the battery is exhausted about 4-6 years at which time you just pop in a new one freshely charged and good to go again . Its eating you guts up isnt it . That  I am going to win. and all your efforst with tpus and other stuff doesnt come close to a real working unit that provides power from nothing  . I know perfectly well what i am doing ,seeing and measuring . The problem is you Guys are just simple minded flamers unless you take the time to make one . ARE you all That BROKE ? When i win you guys better apologize to IST and I . I proved what i need to win and now i am going to go to the one who is higher than all of you who is holding the contest . he will see i guarantee it . I just want my units back . so very simple to make Except for the control board Gl and i are working on to hit the battery every so often to make it self run without touching it with a  tiny portion of the surplus 2.6 volts 3500 amps / THIS WILL FRY  WIRE BUD > from 5/1000th volts loss  from the 2500 ma AA battery to the massive storage of energy from the ultracap It's Visible . I don't go out on the limb unless i know its a sure thing . Because this simple demonstration can be built blindfolded you all negative people should be ashamed you have not even attempted to replicate it / So be it .. you keep saying show it but you don't make an effort to disprove me with a replication . I showed it . now im showing to win .and only two people make that decision . not you .
regards

Gadget

holy sh!ft    gadget !   lol

well stated sir!

SH!FT IN!

IST


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 12:26:29 AM
you cannot charge an ultracap up  with a plain AA battery . I did that test also

Hi,

A 650F ultracap charged to 2.7V has 2369 joules. A 2900mAh AA NiMH battery has 12500 joules. 12500 J is a lot higher than 2900 J. So a good DC-DC converter circuit at 95% efficiency could easily charge a 650F bcap.

And we could get even more techincal because a battery rating of Ah is *not* the total energy contained in a battery. There's a lot more energy, so a AA 2900mAH NiMH battery has a lot more than 12500 joules.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 12:34:48 AM
However, my eyes do perk up :o when I see extraordinary claims being made about these ordinary circuits, and it's wrong for people to be misled about them.

I'd like to give gadget the benefit of doubt and allow him to prove his claim of OU. There circuit is interesting. The 2N3904 seems to work best for this circuit, at least with the 50 or so transistors I've tried in spice. It gives a 15ns current pulse in the inductor windings (not the parallel capacitance, so it's real current) that is interesting. Conventional science is still learning a lot about magnetic materials. Furthermore, some scientists, by profession, that I'm working with are beginning to believe there is something unknown about intense electric fields.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: powercat on November 23, 2009, 12:35:57 AM
I am already building a couple units to send to stefan . Ther will be self running heaters /lights from a 1 volt battery and will run until the life of the battery is exhausted about 4-6 years at which time you just pop in a new one freshely charged and good to go again . Its eating you guts up isnt it . That  I am going to win. and all your efforst with tpus and other stuff doesnt come close to a real working unit that provides power from nothing  . I know perfectly well what i am doing ,seeing and measuring . The problem is you Guys are just simple minded flamers unless you take the time to make one . ARE you all That BROKE ? When i win you guys better apologize to IST and I . I proved what i need to win and now i am going to go to the one who is higher than all of you who is holding the contest . he will see i guarantee it . I just want my units back . so very simple to make Except for the control board Gl and i are working on to hit the battery every so often to make it self run without touching it with a  tiny portion of the surplus 2.6 volts 3500 amps / THIS WILL FRY  WIRE BUD > from 5/1000th volts loss  from the 2500 ma AA battery to the massive storage of energy from the ultracap It's Visible . I don't go out on the limb unless i know its a sure thing . Because this simple demonstration can be built blindfolded you all negative people should be ashamed you have not even attempted to replicate it / So be it .. you keep saying show it but you don't make an effort to disprove me with a replication . I showed it . now im showing to win .and only two people make that decision . not you .
regards

Gadget

Wow     Go Gadget Go    Make history
cat
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 12:37:52 AM
continuing from my previous post, I've given you several examples of ordinary components that appear to violate conventional science, .99. Several scientists, by profession, that I'm working with have verified it.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 23, 2009, 12:42:51 AM
It gives a 15ns current pulse in the inductor windings (not the parallel capacitance, so it's real current)

So the frequency is at 66MHz? That's quite high for a joule thief, I recommend you replicate it and measure frequency to compare the simulation frequency.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 12:48:18 AM
So the frequency is at 66MHz? That's quite high for a joule thief, I recommend you replicate it and measure frequency to compare the simulation frequency.

It's a pulse, so it is composed of a lot of frequencies far above 66MHz.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 23, 2009, 12:49:11 AM
PaulLowrance ,

A super cap of 650 Farad charged to 2,7 Volt has 2369,25 Joule of energy.
Converted to Watt/Hour = 0,658125 Watt/Hour. A 2900mAH 1,2 Volt NiMH battery
can put out maximum 3,48 Watt/Hour.

Now, the circuit ran for 14 hours using 13mA/h at 1,495 Volt. So each hour the
input usage was 0,019435 Watt/Hour. The total used in the 14 hours was
0,27209 Watt/Hour. That was ONE run. Now how many times can he run
from the same battery before it is empty? Approx. 12 times.

Now 12 runs later he has generated 7,8975 Watt/Hour of power. So by using
3,48 Watt/Hour he has generated 7,9 Watt/Hour. This is a COP= 2,27.

Alex.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 23, 2009, 12:51:41 AM
I'd like to give gadget the benefit of doubt and allow him to prove his claim of OU.  Conventional science is still learning a lot about magnetic materials. Furthermore, some scientists, by profession, that I'm working with are beginning to believe there is something unknown about intense electric fields.

Paul

Gadget claims he has already shown proof of OU. My challenge to you then is to point me to this proof, or demonstrate proof of your own. This is about gadget's version of the JT, anything else is irrelevant at the moment.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 12:56:23 AM
Gadget claims he has already shown proof of OU. My challenge to you then is to point me to this proof, or demonstrate proof of your own. This is about gadget's version of the JT, anything else is irrelevant at the moment.

I can only prove my own claim, which is entirely different than gadgets claim. Have gadget prove his own.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 23, 2009, 01:00:41 AM
I can only prove my own claim, which is entirely different than gadgets claim. Have gadget prove his own.

Paul

He claims he already has Paul. That is the point. No further effort will be taken to prove it, which is what he is saying. So if you are not yet satisfied with what he has presented so far as proof and you are expecting something else or more, I am trying to tell you that this is all you are going to see according to him.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 01:04:13 AM
Actually I'm not waiting for gadget to prove anything. I've given up on trying to get people to prove their claims. Rather, I bought a 650F bcap and will test the claim myself, given gadgets help of course. If his claim does not work, then no big deal, as I've always wanted one of those caps.  :)

Anyhow, I'll be more than happy to post the experiment details, and I'm sure the testing method will meet your requirements.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 01:06:51 AM
PaulLowrance ,

A super cap of 650 Farad charged to 2,7 Volt has 2369,25 Joule of energy.
Converted to Watt/Hour = 0,658125 Watt/Hour. A 2900mAH 1,2 Volt NiMH battery
can put out maximum 3,48 Watt/Hour.

Now, the circuit ran for 14 hours using 13mA/h at 1,495 Volt. So each hour the
input usage was 0,019435 Watt/Hour. The total used in the 14 hours was
0,27209 Watt/Hour. That was ONE run. Now how many times can he run
from the same battery before it is empty? Approx. 12 times.

Now 12 runs later he has generated 7,8975 Watt/Hour of power. So by using
3,48 Watt/Hour he has generated 7,9 Watt/Hour. This is a COP= 2,27.

Alex.

Hi Alex,

I wasn't disputing his claim, but just saying that a 2900mAH 1.2V battery has enough energy to charge a 650F 2.7V capacitor. Anyhow, the data you're posting, is it in the 1000+ page JT thread? Can you give me an idea about what page it's located to save time?

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 23, 2009, 01:07:11 AM
@Gadget,

I finally got all caught up in the threads. If there is a way to shut up IST you should try. He is going to be your downfall. He needs to listen to what others are saying and try to understand. The self patting on the back is ridiculous. Maybe it would be better if he jumped in his teleporter and went back to his home planet.

The BIG discovery here is the Ultracap.

You can't use regular or supercaps to get the same results, so the trick is the Ultracap not the jt. There will soon be many other ways popping up to show how to charge them up. Earth Battery, solar call, bendini......

I really don't think it is an overunity discovery, But thank you very much for bringing the ultracaps to our attention. I will have to save up some money to get a couple off of you to play with.

 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 23, 2009, 01:28:59 AM
Any suggestion on buying the ultra caps in europe (cheaply)?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 01:32:40 AM
broli,

The guy I bought my *new* 650F bcap on ebay sells internationally. They're $30 + s&h.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=370233804626&Category=4662&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=370233804626&Category=4662&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2)

his ebay account username is cusdn, and has a flawless sellers rating.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Yucca on November 23, 2009, 01:33:58 AM
I wonder, could a smaller cap be used say 1F and then do the dumping or switching back to battery at a higher frequency? Or is there something special about the 650F caps?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 01:39:21 AM
@All:

I am just going to back up .99's comments.  I have read quite a few of Gadget's postings and looked at his schematic.  Gadget has not done anything even remotely close to proving that this is an over unity device.  The most basic measurements of power out vs. power in or energy out vs energy in have not been done.  In addition to this, Gadget is not capable of articulating what the circuit is doing in a proper manner and it is very obvious that his understanding of electronics is very limited.

I would strongly advise anyone contemplating spending the money and time to replicate this device to not do so - you will be wasting your time.  As an alternative, you should encourage Gadget to back up his claims with real measurements proving his claim.  Personally I don't believe that Gadget is capable of doing this.

This is nothing more than another "false alarm" where somebody gets all excited about a JT-like circuit that charges a capacitor using a discharging inductor going through a diode.  There is nothing here.

Some of you may remember the "Imhotep" excitement where there was a huge buzz over turning a computer fan into a small Bedini motor.  The name of the thread was "Free energy at last - A must see" or something like that.  Imhotep became a "rock star" but nothing he and his wife ever posted came even remotely close to being a free energy device.

I encourage all of you that are contemplating replications to just sit back and chill for a long time and see what happens.  I assure you that you will be wasting your time and money.  Instead demand that Gadget prove his claim first.  That would be the wisest course of action.

MileHigh
What is your Education ? 9 th grade ? You will Not DEMAND anything  from Me and further more you are not welcome here . Your Statement is plain blatant Flaming and doesn't mean nothing at all .. you cant take 5 minutes  of your sweet precious time to verify to make one .. You are a fool/s fool  . You can't have it . You lose already bud. Go away . you will not be seeing any of my work . Stephan will . and the people that make it possible ONLY Period .
I have all the Brain power i need to get  an ou prize and far exceeds anything you could or can't do . Don't believe me ? start with a
fully charged AA battery. This battery has a know Amp/Hour
capacity. This is you input reference!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, run the circuit and charge up the super capacitor. Dump the
ultra capacitor into a know resistive load. Say a 20 Ohm resistor
with enough wattage to survive the heat. Make a note on how long
time it took to dump the capacitor. While dumping the load, make
several voltage readings over the resistor. Now average the
voltage readings to get a mean value Notating this on  my notebook.
Now you repeat the above until you have used up all charge in the AA
battery.
Then you add together all the mean values you got from the resistor
measurements and do a little math to see how much power you
got out of the circuit. Use Watt/Hour as you reference.

. You have no idea what i am capable of Milehigh

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 23, 2009, 01:46:37 AM
@ Yucca,
I was just thinking the same thing.

Bill has some 10F caps.

Hey Bill,
Would you be willing to try it with your 10 farad supercaps then put a resistor in series and use it as the battery of a joule thief.
I know you already did the first part, but if you add a resistor the cap will be lower and slower and I am wondering what kind of voltage/charge will come into the second 10F cap.

I would like to try lighting an incandescent light bulb with this  C-E charged cap and time it etc, but I am afraid of the clumsiness of holding wires to round metal light bulb bases, using the 650F cap. 10F is better for starters.

Are you willing?
Or someone else.

jeanna
edit
I just tried this
I have a 1F thing called super from RS

I charged it up on my present jtc on the table which is running 34 leds christmas string (see pic last night) and I stuck the cap in the C-E spot.
It charged for a while so more farads could be there? and when I used it in the place of the battery, it was strong enough to light the string off the secondary.
Only for a brief moment, but it did build enough charge to do this.
but,
The string goes out for the time it is charging.

thats all for now!
j

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 01:51:34 AM
He claims he already has Paul. That is the point. No further effort will be taken to prove it, which is what he is saying. So if you are not yet satisfied with what he has presented so far as proof and you are expecting something else or more, I am trying to tell you that this is all you are going to see according to him.

.99
Again you are wrong .pony . I have stated at least 12 times for someone to replicate my findings . Your total wrong .I got and yes Stephan will have it . If you want it build it other wise thank your for your interest .

Al
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 23, 2009, 01:54:34 AM
broli,

The guy I bought my *new* 650F bcap on ebay sells internationally. They're $30 + s&h.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=370233804626&Category=4662&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=370233804626&Category=4662&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2)

his ebay account username is cusdn, and has a flawless sellers rating.

It says 30$+9$ for shipping within US only, no other country can be chosen.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MileHigh on November 23, 2009, 02:00:41 AM
Gadget:

Quote
While dumping the load, make
several voltage readings over the resistor. Now average the
voltage readings to get a mean value Notating this on  my notebook
.
Now you repeat the above until you have used up all charge in the AA
battery.

Averaging the voltage readings is completely wrong and you are demonstrating to the world that you do not understand what you are doing and are therefore unable to make proper measurements.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 02:16:20 AM
ok honestly guys...
we all had enough of the biclkering

if you dont stop this ... 

i will request this all be put  on hold

and the thred (S)  be locked till you grow up

i will no longer respond to people that laque basic human respect ..

i ask gadget  to let the sheep fly away it is a true waste of time

i will as i have said earlyer... resume building

when you all grow up ... 

till then i ask all seneable members that may have actually learned something to refrian from posting ....  till the dust settles

i said b4 no fighting .. it is clear some dont understand .. and some may have come to deeper understandings ... 

i call break time!!

peace   i will return to reserching agin soon

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2009, 02:50:50 AM
OK!

Look, as your humble Moderator I have to step in here.  Milehigh, Poynt, etc. here is the thing.  Gadgetmall is a highly respected member of this forum and, if he said he found a way to make pigs fly, I will give him the benefit of the doubt to prove it.

So, what I am saying is this:  Unless/until Stefan awards or does not award the OU prize to Gadget, We will not tolerate in this topic any bashing of Gadget, or anyone.

He, in my opinion, has explained his experiments fully, totally and I have seen his progression from where he was, to where he is now in the JT topic from all of his experiments.  So, this all makes sense to me.  Is it real?  Is it true?  I believe it is but, no matter, we will know once Stefan gives his circuit the going over required by the OU prize requirements.

I have had moderator privileges for quite some time and, I have never had to delete posts that were not requested to me to be deleted by the poster.  BUT, for now, I will remove any posts that attack, besmirch, or degrade Gadgetmall or anyone else on this topic.

Gadgetmall is not Mylow folks.

I understand the skepticism and, usually that is healthy.  It keeps us on the right track.  But, this man has declared his results, posted I don't know how many drawings and explanations, answered many, many questions, and still we have a select few demanding, requiring, debunking, ect.

This will stop.

Read his posts on the JT topic.  Yes, he was there many, many pages ago.

Don't tell me what supercaps can and can't do as I have fully documented my work here, and on Youtube.  I don't know everything they can do, of course, but I have a lot of hands on experience with them.  Also, Gadget has said I don't know how many times, that his Bcap (boostcap) is NOT just a supercap, it is a hybrid of a battery with electrolyte and a supercap.  He has stated this many times.  My work has been both with the supercaps AND this Bcap.  So, I know there is a difference. Check out my 40 JT supercap experiment videos on youtube to see my experiments with the JT circuit, supercaps and this new Bcap.  Then get back to me and tell me what it will and will not do.

So, to recap here,  Gadgetmall has shared his discovery with us and answered many questions relating to it.  That is what we are all (or most of us) here for.  He has been in contact with Stefan and, applied for the OU prize, those results will be known when they are determined.  Until then, we do NOT need folks, especially new folks that have not read anything prior, to be coming in here to rip Gadget, or IST or Jeanna, or me, or anyone else.

Let us see what happens and, if Gadeget is correct, (which I think he is) we will have all had the opportunity to witness history.

Thank you all for reading this.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 23, 2009, 05:47:29 AM
I'm not interested in bashing folks Bill, but please tell me if in your opinion that is what I have done in my posts here?

I have questioned the evidence or proof and perhaps the full understanding by folks of what the JT really does, but I do not believe I have bashed anyone here.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 06:47:33 AM
Did anybody note the iron filings in oil art piece I posted somewhere. It is just like some of those shots.
It was sort of like the rug symbols... bo a lot like them.
j

he sure is a smart guy ...  ;D

altho i have an explanation of the proper use of this  not quite like ag...  and   this is simple ... 

first you must understand spins..  that is the secreat of the univirse  this is held on high through ALL RELIGONS!  oops  ..  the R word .. yikes  i feel your ora curl up lol

no worries..    what this is ...  is infact ...  what all is made of ...  now some things i have come to on conculisions ...  have NEVER BEEN TOLD!  8)   

subatomic ballanced gyroscopic particle..  it is an effect of spinn...

so if i built a spin seperator ...  i can take you apart by your spinns .. and reconnect you some where else ... 

this is a transportor  .. and teleportors are diffrent!  they do the same thing ..   i beleave the  but operate diffrently .. 

transportor i think is a 2 way device ..  so  when you understand creation you can do things you thought were magic ...  there not ...  it is darn simple .. 

the rodin coil is a teleportor ...  agin it most likely needs 2 coils ... there for is 2 way ..  but the rodin coil has many reconnects!  hence it is a multi destonation device  basically you make tunnels... that join the devices ..   depending on what you are sending choose the fire freq ... 

it is possible this is done in 1 smak...  too  i would need to study it more to make it work properly ...

i can easly lay our how it works why it is possible ...  but the operation freqs of such a unit i have no idea ..

the secreat is disclosed in this post but  you dont have eyes to see it ..   

tesla was facionated with counter rotating feilds ..  ;)   

 ;D

ist
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 23, 2009, 06:56:53 AM
I agree.
The tricky part is we have not made one yet.

Did you ever see the video about carr?

Carr was a student/acolyte of tesla who built a spaceship.

If you go to the project camelot, you can find rick ryan and there is an interview of him where he describes being in this spaceship and how the thing got taken from carr just as it had been taken from tesla.
here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfM23rAZTSQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfM23rAZTSQ)

We are now entering the time when it is going to happen anyway.

enjoy these wonderful dreams and dream hard!!
ist, did you ever watch anything disappear with your rodin coil?
jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 07:03:06 AM
i never built it ...  i just see how the crap works .. for whatever reason ...

i could build 1   but i like teslas cone better ...  ;)

it can be split in 2

teslas .. as a 1 way jump ..  :)

because of 369

ist!

naw this comes into my mind ..  ds did it for me for the transportor bout 15 of his words it hit me hard...

 ;D ;D  darn near fell out of my chair ..  :D

that is a good video ..  just finished watching it ..

i can draw conculsions on the ship easly ...

isis wand  ;)

it is a sphere ...  he said there was a laser style light .. from the bottom ...  what quartz?  was it

i draw this conculsion based upon the posted video at a 1 time listen ... never herd of carr  but i bet he is back too .. he just dont know it ..  ;) 

light sets up resonance in the ball ... i have no idea how it was porpelled .. or floated sclar ?

but it is a con link.. device .. he seems really cool MR RING

i think when you acheive resonance in a perfect sphere things ocour  i do not understand this yet to think to talk of that ..

sure is a mind melter for humans ..

how ever a few books wiggled there way are way a while ago...  that do go into some detail on such things ... 

ps  you need an engery belt to remember  ;) i have herd 1 could be made avabil for study  :o

i declined some time ago ...  i will make the request ... im wondering if i dont need one...  8)


here is some thing else i have been seeing thease clear dots for years ...  i never knew what they were...  till today i made em dance ..  i think im begining to see 4d ....  can this be the case ...

it is like perhaps tacions or fireflys ... i can i think control them by mind power ...  they apear tiny but and seam close but they may in fact be far ... i have no explanation for this ... 

you can visuzlize them a like a tiny round rain drop that have no set pattern they follow .. the go every where  i though may be gravitios .. but dont think so   many times they start out as 1 and seprate and kinda skipp ..  btw no im not high on drugs! 

short and long ... i see many more now and they dance as a gyro ...  many make 1 oddest thing ..

i will expairment tommorow as i think my stuff got turned on  :o 8)

prior to yesterday i never ever saw them act  with system ...

this is infact how and why JESUS could walk on water ...  this goes deep .. and sure i have gaind some but not all understandings...  i beleave with the t sheild ...   many things are possible ...

 ;D

now if im now who i think i am why have i solved all i have ?  with not so much effort?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2009, 07:12:12 AM
I'm not interested in bashing folks Bill, but please tell me if in your opinion that is what I have done in my posts here?

I have questioned the evidence or proof and perhaps the full understanding by folks of what the JT really does, but I do not believe I have bashed anyone here.

.99

My point was this...it appeared that a small group of folks kept asking the same questions, which Gadget had answered previously, but the same questions, or similar ones, kept being asked.

That's not OU.  You don't know what OU is.  How do you know it is OU?  Did you measure the input and the output?  Charging a cap is not OU.  What was your battery charge before you started?  And on and on and on.

It is not like Gadget was ignoring these questions...he answered them as best he could.  It just got to the point where the same questions were being asked, and then answered, and then asked again, and then answered again.

So, to answer your question, no, I do not think that you bashed Gadget, but I do think it was not productive, and I don't mean to single you out here at all because there were many posts by many folks, to keep asking about the OU prize and how he did not qualify and how he did not measure this or that well enough to win...etc.  My faith is in Stefan.  I mean, if I announced that I believed that I had won the prize, I would not expect Stefan to just cut me a check based upon my say so.  As per his stated requirements, it will be evaluated to see if it meets the criteria, etc.  If it does, he wins, if not, he does not.

I just wanted to stop what I saw as a trend in going after Gadget and asking him questions that he had already answered a few pages back.  I have to admit, he had more patience than I as he did make an attempt to answer again, and again and again, when all most of the folks had to do was go back a few pages and read his earlier responses.  For the folks that did read his earlier responses and still said he did not measure right, and Gadget said he did, and they said he didn't and Gadget said he did, well, this was not getting anywhere so, we will leave it up to Stefan, who does know how to measure input and output and also controls the prize money.

Forgive me if you believe I singled you out as I did not intend to come across that way.  I remember your posts and while they may have been a little redundant, they were not personal attacks on Gadget in any way, so you are right, you were not bashing him.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.  I hate to keep using the joule thief topic (over 10,000 posts) as an example but I will anyway.  We always have welcomed disagreement and dissent as it has helped keep our numbers and experiments honest and has corrected some mistakes along the way.  This is a good thing.  But, if I say hey, I did this and that, and someone says, no you didn't and I say yes I did and they say no you didn't because of this, and I say yes I did, I checked that and they say no you didn't...well you get the idea.  Besides I  have seen evidence of OU with the JT circuit and supercaps long ago and have published all of my experiments in video.  Gadget has taken what we have seen all along to a new level so we, who have worked with this for quite a while, are not shocked by his accomplishments.  Others just coming into the topic are saying stupid things like...JT's are an inductor (yes) Jt's are a simple transformer (yes) they do not create energy (no they don't) but look what they can do and what folks have done with them.  An led takes about 3.5- 4 volts to light along with about 30 mA's or so.  Over a year ago I lit 400 leds with a single AA battery using a JT circuit.  Then, I did the same thing using my earth battery and a boost cap (exactly like the one Gadget is using as I bought it from him)  This is funny because my EB has never put out over 2 volts and about 19 mA's.  Is that creating energy?  No.  Is it storing energy coming out of the EB that I didn't even know was there?  Yes.

Well, this is a very long response to your short question and I hope you see where I am coming from.  You, and several others have raised your reservations about Gadget's circuit.  Those have been duly noted and we will wait and see what Stefan decides.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 02:57:26 PM
@Gadget,

I finally got all caught up in the threads. If there is a way to shut up IST you should try. He is going to be your downfall. He needs to listen to what others are saying and try to understand. The self patting on the back is ridiculous. Maybe it would be better if he jumped in his teleporter and went back to his home planet.

The BIG discovery here is the Ultracap.

You can't use regular or supercaps to get the same results, so the trick is the Ultracap not the jt. There will soon be many other ways popping up to show how to charge them up. Earth Battery, solar call, bendini......

I really don't think it is an overunity discovery, But thank you very much for bringing the ultracaps to our attention. I will have to save up some money to get a couple off of you to play with.
your Welcome  BUT  as said in previous post there is MUCH room for improvemenst to this OU effect and As a condition i asked Stephan   and in all fairness  I discovered it and build it first and its My concepts therefor No prize entrant or entries shall  use My concept  to enter for the prize including using an ultracapacitor or a joule thief as per MY concept . Simply put you can enter using any charging Method with an ultracap as the output source nor use the circiut ground loop had designed and i am ironing out . You can however replicate improve  the design for the benifit  for all but no entery for prize .
Its ou . a simple test for you non believers . If you HAVE a "SUPERCAP" take a charged aa battery @2500ma and charge the at cap up to full capacity . You will not be able to this and your aa battery will depleat very fast trying to do it . Again I charge  Over the unity of My Run Battery  1.4 volts to a BCap with over 2.5-2.6 volts with virtually no loss from the source at all .at the very worst  using a different battery a 10th of a volt drop ., In my case it was  only the last number  5/1000th loss and a full bcap with Energy far beyond . you can actually make the source AA battery explode from the power gained  in teh bcap .!!this is the concept on the Circuit board  we are building to charge the aa battery up to a set voltage either back to unity or over the initial start volts . . And this only takes a second or to to do this . as i stated its like charging an aa battery with a100 amp battery charger . you can only hold it on that for afew seconds before the battery gets hot and eventually Explodes .. i got guy. Als o i did nbot start the repete Experiment 1 last night because i am waiting for an aa battery to Fully charge (18 hours) before i begin the redo over . I am how ever repeating experiment one on a copy of the circuit using an old nickle cadnium battery about 7 years old . here are the results of this so far. remamber this is an old cadinium battery not Ni-mh new one . this one i have had to pop with a12 volt charger several time thruu the last few years to unshort it . i believe its 750 mah a generic GREEN one no markings

circuit exactly as the first one ::with arun battery charged as high as i could get it  the start voltage  and charge voltage is as follows . Also the Current draw for the Transistor is set to 12.90ma at the start of charging an ultracap 650f . also the start volts of the Upcap Is .544 the normal resting voltage of the Ultracapacitor

  Time           RUN                CHARGE

 6:45 pm        1.495              .544
 6:50 pm         1.438              .550
 10:50pm         1.358              .605
 11:10pm         1.344               .803
 12:20am          1.334              .846
  6:05 am          1.310              1.000
  9:18am           1.304               1.048
  9.59             1.303                 1.058
11:08              1.300                 1.076
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 23, 2009, 03:29:38 PM
your Welcome  BUT  as said in previous post there is MUCH room for improvemenst to this OU effect and As a condition i asked Stephan   and in all fairness  I discovered it and build it first and its My concepts therefor No prize entrant or entries shall  use My concept  to enter for the prize including using an ultracapacitor or a joule thief as per MY concept . Simply put you can enter using any charging Method with an ultracap as the output source nor use the circiut ground loop had designed and i am ironing out . You can however replicate improve  the design for the benifit  for all but no entery for prize .
Its ou . a simple test for you non believers . If you HAVE a "SUPERCAP" take a charged aa battery @2500ma and charge the at cap up to full capacity . You will not be able to this and your aa battery will depleat very fast trying to do it . Again I charge  Over the unity of My Run Battery  1.4 volts to a BCap with over 2.5-2.6 volts with virtually no loss from the source at all .at the very worst  using a different battery a 10 of o volt ., In my case it was  only the last number  5/1000th loss and a full bcaps with Energy far beyond . you can actually make the source AA battery explode from the power gained .!!
Gadget

I know what your saying and I congratulate you on being the first to find this out. What I guess I was trying to put forth was that there are many inventions out there that claim OU based on BEMF. The problem in the past is that there was really no way to harness this power. The ultracap, may be the solution to all of these.
I don't want to sound rude or flame you (as you are already getting enough of that), and I do believe that you are probably right in your claim of OU. However, the only discovery here is the ultracap. I am not sure if you should be able to claim a concept of charging an ultracap which in all fairness is an invention of someone else. 

I'm starting to sound negative, which I really am not so I better stop now.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
I know what your saying and I congratulate you on being the first to find this out. What I guess I was trying to put forth was that there are many inventions out there that claim OU based on BEMF. The problem in the past is that there was really no way to harness this power. The ultracap, may be the solution to all of these.
I don't want to sound rude or flame you (as you are already getting enough of that), and I do believe that you are probably right in your claim of OU. However, the only discovery here is the ultracap. I am not sure if you should be able to claim a concept of charging an ultracap which in all fairness is an invention of someone else. 
 
I'm starting to sound negative, which I really am not so I better stop now.
here is somthing to ponder about that . Mark twain , steven King ,edgar Allen Poe  and others published books and made millions on someone elses invention . They did not Invent the words . they came from another  invention the  dictionary :) I have had ultracaps all year and this  is a recent discovery . and i can tell you that YES this is the smoking gun (ULTRACApacitors)or BATTERY CAPS
@Mr Mags  Well another example of people who claimed a discovery arre John Bedini . He patented his circuit . He did not invent the parts . he just rearranged them .


Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 23, 2009, 03:48:34 PM
here is somthing to ponder about that . Mark twain , steven kib and others published books and made money . They did not Invent the words . they came from another  invention the  dictionary :)

Gadget

They also didn't claim to discover something. :)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 03:49:15 PM
great work gadget!

that is verry impressive .. it used verry little and it has gained

you guys are in for it!!  8) :o :o :o

lol

wate till you see the miles we run with this ...

i can improve this beond your dreams ...  ;) ;D

i will not if there is nothing done with it  or if we are continually pounded by the dozzies ..

hence my last post  ;D 

if ya dont get it dont bother argueing .. test it!

yes gadget this all  for you   and im damm proud you will see!  8)

and pony is gonna be 1 busy soul  ;D ;D ;D ;D  lmao


w814

for 1 mr m i do agree with you ...  about others work!  i stand beside you there ...   i do not know who the origonal was ...   but credit must be awarded for that person indeed... 

however in all fairness this does work ... the improvements the team will make in weeks to come .. will be second to none ..  ;)

in all instance it will be ou the design totally reflects ou put ... i wound more coils than anyone ... that im aware of .. i have discovered many more things ... put your seatbelt on ...   ;)

the jt is ou by orignal .. the orininal inventer has a flawed understanding of what is actually happining in the tj's operation ...

im not sure it has been exposed public yet .. the exact source ... but ill tell ya im not far from that ..

all free engery devices ever built operate on the same thing .. with some ecptions...

i could list you over 200 units that use this teck ...  nevermind the over 1000 things that use it and dont even know they are .. lol

kinda like the fugi lol
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 23, 2009, 03:51:03 PM
Sorry, just keep doing your thing. I hope you will have a few of them ultracaps left when I finally get some cash together.
Good Luck.

Agreed, the smoking gun is the ultracap!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 04:06:10 PM
for now it is ......  :P ;D

ist!

i thought i saw you try......  ;) :-*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_GfCi0UYoY&feature=related

REM LOSEING MY RELIGION... 

REAL ELECTRO MAGNETICS 

R E M !
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 04:16:18 PM
great work gadget!

that is verry impressive .. it used verry little and it has gained

you guys are in for it!!  8) :o :o :o

lol
Thank you ist and yep I know you will far exceed 3000amps @2.6 volts with all those Bcaps in series . the beauty of Bcaps is they dont loose farads in series where supercaps do .
i have better ways of charging these also ,faster but as you know this is the Most Simplest way to show a self running motionless high output generator .
wate till you see the miles we run with this ...

i can improve this beond your dreams ...  ;) ;D

i will not if there is nothing done with it  or if we are continually pounded by the dozzies ..

hence my last post  ;D 

if ya dont get it dont bother argueing .. test it!

yes gadget this all  for you   and im damm proud you will see!  8)

and pony is gonna be 1 busy soul  ;D ;D ;D ;D  lmao


w814

for 1 mr m i do agree with you ...  about others work!  i stand beside you there ...   i do not know who the origonal was ...   but credit must be awarded for that person indeed... 

however in all fairness this does work ... the improvements the team will make in weeks to come .. will be second to none ..  ;)

in all instance it will be ou the design totally reflects ou put ... i wound more coils than anyone ... that im aware of .. i have discovered many more things ... put your seatbelt on ...   ;)

the jt is ou by orignal .. the orininal inventer has a flawed understanding of what is actually happining in the tj's operation ...

im not sure it has been exposed public yet .. the exact source ... but ill tell ya im not far from that ..

all free engery devices ever built operate on the same thing .. with some ecptions...

i could list you over 200 units that use this teck ...  nevermind the over 1000 things that use it and dont even know they are .. lol

kinda like the fugi lol
Thank you ist and yep I know you will far exceed 3000amps @2.6 volts with all those Bcaps in series . the beauty of Bcaps is they dont loose farads in series where supercaps do .
i have better ways of charging these also ,faster but as you know this is the Most Simplest way to show a self running motionless high output generator .
and i have already been pm'ed by lots of people wanting Heater kits so  as soon as the Circuit board gets nailed down i'll have that as an option . free Energy Is here for the world .
your welcome from Gadget ,Ist ,Pirate ,Mk1,Jeanna,Groundloop, Jesus,jim,resonanceman ,xee2 and a few more . all who helped make this discovery possible will get a share . Its not about the money either , its about Truth and real Free energy for Mankind to benifit from and to prove ONCE AND for all that over unity Exist and is very easy to attain.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 23, 2009, 04:25:34 PM
I am sure you realize for the contest the setup has to produce a pre defined power value continously for 3 months and thus that means without interruption.
Correct me if i am wrong but you speak of 14 Hours so how are you going to meet this requirement?

Marco.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 04:36:50 PM
I am sure you realize for the contest the setup has to produce a pre defined power value continously for 3 months and thus that means without interruption.
Correct me if i am wrong but you speak of 14 Hours so how are you going to meet this requirement?

Marco.
the requirement is only 1 watt So . 2.6 volts at 3500 amps = 9100watts...how many watts per hour ??????????????? 1 .how many hours in 3 months three months = 2 191.4 hours . and if My calculation are incorrect i welcom a correction but not a flame  Also keep in mind that the initial time to charge this is not that significant and considered  startup . I will ship the unit to Stephan in the charge mode and it will already be ready for work .Also remember that the unit is self running and constantly replinishing both run  and charge so the output will be constant at such a low requirment  PLUS it runs 1 watt or less Of light (leds as an extra Ou effect) with no affect on the current draw at all .
thank you for your comment and intrest
gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 23, 2009, 04:45:07 PM
Well let's see   :)

P=UxI
P=2,6x3500
P=9100 Watt

Are you claiming your little joule thiev setup here is producing close to 10 Kilowatt ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 05:06:07 PM
Well let's see   :)

P=UxI
P=2,6x3500
P=9100 Watt

Are you claiming your little joule thieve setup here is producing close to 10 Kilowatt ?
No i am saying MY circuit produces a voltage of 2.6volts @3500amps=9100 watts that can be constantly drained easly of 1 w/h. I am not good in math anymore i have other experts contributing for the calculations . i had a stroke three years ago and i have some memory loss but if thats what your calculations say then yes . . Understand My only concern this second is to prove Overunity and a selfrunning device that produced massive power output . in this case  the specs of the bcap are located  at maxwell.com SO. as there is no meter i have that can measure 3500 amps i have to go another way and discharge the bcap in nichrome wire .whick will far exceed a 1 watt release . Also the cap will NOT be fully discharged at any time and is constantly be recharger . Please Build one and see for your self . I won't answer any more questions . all the details are here and on page 996-current page on Jule thief thread. Just build one . you won't be sorry and you will have one heck of a simple ou device . Aside from the selfrun circuit being designed you can see the ou effect with just one wire to zap the AA source back  up with the very little loss . also look a page back here at the numbers i am posting on an old AA cadnium battery  charging the Bcap . relize that there is eniff amps /joules /watts in this to burn lamp cord into right now . all this from a measly 1 volt 850ma used  7 years old AA battery :) If you believe me to be wrong then: Where is your Circuit ? How did you come to that conclusion and with what equasion ?
Good day
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 23, 2009, 05:10:02 PM
Voltage isn't a great indication of power, in order to fully measure the power in watts, or coulombs, you would need a way to measure exactly how 'full' you capacitor really is.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 23, 2009, 05:16:18 PM
Suggestions?

If it does put out 10 Kilowatt you can always hook up five 2Kw heaters.
Or ten  :o 1Kw water cookers.
Or just 100!!!! one hundred Watt light bulbs.
Thats TEN times as much as Mr Steven Mark did because he only showed ten bulbs.... :-X

I think its best to redo the calculations first.

M.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 05:21:38 PM
jadaro2600,

Voltage is not an accurate way of determining battery energy-- Key word is "accurate."  For example it's inaccurate to judge how fast an object is moving by human sight alone, but I'll bet you anything I can tell which bowling ball is dropping faster between one that was dropped 5 feet & 100 feet. Here is gadgets claim, which is very obvious,

Quote
Quote from Gadget, "I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charged an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery ."

And I would add that he was talking about the 650F ultracap, right gadget?

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 05:28:27 PM
Voltage isn't a great indication of power, in order to fully measure the power in watts, or coulombs, you would need a way to measure exactly how 'full' you capacitor really is.

Any suggestions?
Hmm. Well watts = volts X amps . unless some one can calculate from the specs of the capacitor at the manufacture site . The other way posted was texplained several pages back to dump in a know load several times unitil its exaused and do the math there when the source battery is fully depleted (not in self run mode) that could take weeks or months for the aa battery to become so depleated it wont run the transistor and more. this is why i want other good members to replicate .And give there results  and are good at power calulations. I'm good at building  and getting stuff to work  but With 4 years college way behind me now  .and the stroke  numbers confuse me . I know what its capable of and as soon as i get my roll of thin nichrome i'll get the video done and borrow a High connection in the city and post it .If some one would just build it or even sugess a newer proven JT cap charger toroid winding i can try that while i'm waiting . I got plenty of bcaps to experiment with .and over 60 blank toroids from goldmine and 5 big ones 3-2inch and 2 three inch . and a 140mm one comming . and the otehr way from My math expert is Take a fully charged AA battery of a known type (eg. 2900mA/h 1,2 Volt)
and then just charge up the cap. When the cap reach 2,6 Volt then
just discharge the cap into some load. Any load. But you need to
make sure that you measure the voltage over the cap to be 2,6 Volt.

Then you repeat the charge for so many times the AA battery allow
you to do. I will guess 11 to 12 times before the AA battery is drained.

Now you just use this math:

Power In Capacitor in Joule = 1/2 * FARAD * (Voltage * Voltage)
* how many times you did discharge the capacitor.

Take this SUM and divide by 3600 and you have the POWER in
Watt / Hour.

If this Power (in Watt/Hour) is greater than the maximum Watt/Hour your AA battery can put out then you have over unity.

Proof is the build fellas I am not answering anymore question .READ

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 05:34:22 PM
nice for you to come see us marco !

if that is correct ... the math ...  ;)  magic..

lol

i beleave i can charge an unlimited amount!  ;D  any desired amprage and voltage .. from 1.5v source ..

and i intend to get my charge time down to 5 min would rock but ill settle with 15

i have LONG AGO SOLVED THIS HURTTLE

ringggg da bell 2 time  ;D 8)

insted of 1 kick  i send 100 000 in 1 puse they expand in the cap  ;)

just basic 2 freq crap ...  8)

w814  ;D

fire flys are here makeing sure this unravels just properly ... GOT IT!  8)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 05:38:14 PM
I've posted this before. There are conventional equations to calculating battery energy based on voltage, and such equiations include battery temperature. Here's an outline of car battery energy at WikiPedia, that includes an equation to adjust for temperature,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery#Terminal_voltage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery#Terminal_voltage)

Fpr a 12V car battery the temperature adjustment is very low, -0.022V/°C.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 05:47:17 PM
now that i have told you all agin for i dont know 2 hundred times... lol

dont think you will run off with my work lol

i have this all long ago covered ..  ;) 

i encourage the read through of the 1000+ page thred ...  ;)

all is there ...  ;D

there will be no stealing .. the origonal inventer shall stand up !

i must congrdulate him!

thank you

william

no body goes 15 for free!  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Yucca on November 23, 2009, 05:52:10 PM
I'm not interested in bashing folks Bill, but please tell me if in your opinion that is what I have done in my posts here?

I have questioned the evidence or proof and perhaps the full understanding by folks of what the JT really does, but I do not believe I have bashed anyone here.

.99

For what its worth poynt, I don't see that you've bashed anyone either, you've just been calm and objective as usual.

Last night I replicated the gadget circuit using a constant V source of 1.5V to drive it through a 1ohm non inductive resistor. The charging cap on the OP was a 1F 5V supercap.

[1]
I scoped the input V and I and used my scope to multiply the channels and then perform RMS, thus calculating AVG power in. I timed the run and multiplied power by seconds hence calculating input Joules.

[2]
I measured the start and finish V in the OP cap. Hence calculating output joules. (I was assuming the cap really was 1F)

With tweaking of the base pot I was able to achieve nearly COP 80%.

Perhaps there is something very special about these 650F caps?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 05:57:14 PM
gadget a simple 2 freq test i reccomend ...


useing its natural running freq .. ok

 8)

try it    you have a scope dont you ...  ;D

ist

this means NO RESISTOR ...  use a small cap  ;)   ;D

glad your here YUCCA  bro

your input is REQUIRED .. ps how is the controller for the portor comeing along  ;D ;)  a dead short rings a BIG BELL lol

perhaps thane would care to join in  :D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 06:17:45 PM
Cool, some details. Thanks for the exp. data Yucca. It sounds like gadget & the gang believe the key is in *large* caps & batteries. Maybe 1F is not enough. Correct me if I'm wrong, but for ages bedini has said the secret is in the battery, more specifically *large* batteries, no?

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 06:22:08 PM
sure it is ... 

because he ringgggs the battery ....  :D

useing the kick :o

ist!

shake the electrons out of the material ... 

you see key to this is to keep it MAGNETIC IN THE CORE ... THEN I CAN PUT 500 TUNED OUTPUT COILS ... 0 LOSS!! 

we awake yet ...  8)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 23, 2009, 06:23:06 PM
IST< I swear, if you exploded one day, confetti would fly everywhere, and surely we would see all-over-unity! :)
jadaro2600,

Voltage is not an accurate way of determining battery energy-- Key word is "accurate."  For example it's inaccurate to judge how fast an object is moving by human sight alone, but I'll bet you anything I can tell which bowling ball is dropping faster between one that was dropped 5 feet & 100 feet. Here is gadgets claim, which is very obvious,

And I would add that he was talking about the 650F ultracap, right gadget?

Paul
I mean to be constructive to the cause:

I'm not sure I follow you Paul; What I'm asking is How do you know how full a capacitor is - voltage alone is not sufficient to determine this, I could charge a 12v capacitor to 3v, would it be 1/4th full?  Please explain!
For what its worth poynt, I don't see that you've bashed anyone either, you've just been calm and objective as usual.

Last night I replicated the gadget circuit using a constant V source of 1.5V to drive it through a 1ohm non inductive resistor. The charging cap on the OP was a 1F 5V supercap.

[1]
I scoped the input V and I and used my scope to multiply the channels and then perform RMS, thus calculating AVG power in. I timed the run and multiplied power by seconds hence calculating input Joules.

[2]
I measured the start and finish V in the OP cap. Hence calculating output joules. (I was assuming the cap really was 1F)

With tweaking of the base pot I was able to achieve nearly COP 80%.

Perhaps there is something very special about these 650F caps?

Most of these high end capacitor are electrolytic, and act like a fast charging battery.


Gadget, please examine the following pictures and tell me that you're not using a battery?, and instead using a fully charged capacitor as the source?, one say, that you haven't assumed has been fully charged by the joule thief circuit, and instead from a steady independent source?: for instance...use a battery to charge the capacitor, and the insert it into the circuit.

>if what you're saying is true, then persistently changing the source from one to another would eventually cause the voltage on the right (in the charged capacitor) to climb.
>if you not disconnecting the source, then the path will short from positive to negative and, yes, the wire/heater element will get hot when you turn the switch on.
>if you're are disconnecting the source, then flipping the switch, the capacitor will discharge through the heater/wire, but still, the capacitor will have been be charged via the short from the source (battery or capacitor on the left )(+) to ground through the diode into the capacitor on the right.

What you essentially have is a battery on both sides of the oscillator circuit even if one or both of those are capacitors.

In this configuration, the oscillator only serves to boost voltage, barring the math, it is as if you've connected one charge capacitor in parallel with one discharged capacitor. Logically, ignoring the decay of charge associated with leakage, the charge in the full capacitor will become one half what it was and the discharged capacitor will gain one half it's full charge.

What theoretically happens is that the stored capacity on the left at some point in time is cut in half, and at some point in time, the stored capacity on the right is at one half yet the voltage is higher ( due to the oscillator ).

Over unity would occur is if the stored capacity on the right is one half BEFORE the stored capacity on the left is one half - which will not likely be the case because of the oscillator having a path to ground, thus it is discharging current.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 06:23:39 PM
It says 30$+9$ for shipping within US only, no other country can be chosen.

Broli, did you read the page. Scroll down 2.5  pages and it says,

For International Sales and Technical questions please email hlandis@hotmail.com

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 06:28:02 PM
thanks j2600


so now you see how all of this ties right into teleportation ...

what is occouring in the battery ...

is how i seperate your spins ...

same deal!

w814

but it im sure is done boom  a 1 zap pulse ... and your just gone ... here there where ever  tic boom
tic boom

faster than light ...  the caps are filled faster than light ...  hence the gain of time tesla speeks of ..

you got to use hot to seperate cold  and cold to seperate hot ...

ac hot cold tho  not hot + 0 hot -   this is wrong ...   this fights nature   you must work with her
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 06:45:54 PM
@jarado  It works as i posted . all the number . The problem is most of you DOn't have the New technology 650farad 2.7 volts BATTERY CAPACITOR > they are not related in any way to the old technology . take a full 2.7 volts @3500 amps (SPecs) and do the math fromthat . Also keep in mind what i have already said 5 times before you cannot charge this cap up with a 1.4 volts battery or for that fact you will smoke you 10 amp 12 volt battery charger trying to charge one up . I said i charge this cap up to full capacity from a 1.4 volt battery and the battery is still 1.4 after i charge it. if i go .r to the 100th and thousands scale then 1.495 AA battery 2500 ma  STart 1.495 battery end -cap fully charged at the rating 2.6 at 2500amps or just a fraction less  . Energy Stored including Jouled /watts amps are way Over the unity of the run battery volts and apm . you see?. and yes for the 15 th time i did three experimenst covering all the bases and now i am still doing an experiment giving you the time  battery volts and Bcap volts with a 7 year old cadinium china battery with less than 850ma rating when it was new . Volts are porportional to AMPS an Untra cap . Its a sort of solid state battery . way more powerfull than a single cell in a led acid car battery . powerfull and the power out put can be taken off SLOW for days weeks or i can discharge it like i do with Nichrome wire heater to a volts that i wanted to get to . 1 volt. Anyways . you all I can't answer anymore questions . I am on My way to radio Shack and get a few solder breadboards to build the self run circuit  l8r

"...Ultracapacitors have greater specific power (more than 1.5kW/kg) than conventional or advanced batteries; and higher specific energy (of about 3 to 5 Wh/kg) than aluminum electrolytic capacitors (Dietrich, 2001; Burke and Miller, 2002). Their advantage over batteries, in terms of power, is due to their reduced equivalent series resistance (ESR) and that in these elements, unlike batteries, there are no chemical reactions involved in the process of charge and discharge. Therefore, the speed needed to deliver energy does not depend on the speed of such reactions or the ability of chemical components to recombine, but on electrostatic phenomena, which does not require molecular mutation to take place. Also, the longer cycle life and good behavior at low temperatures (Schneuwly and Smith, 2005) are important advantages..."


Gadget
there you go again BUD.  Asking the same questions over and over and over  and Now Badgering me with you SEE this is what i liek to read BLA BLA BLA go play with you spice program and input the number and let do the math for you so wount have to lift a finger . I don't this you ever built a joule thief anyways . One more comment like that and your history .
Al
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 07:02:18 PM
I said i charge this cap ["650farad 2.7 volts BATTERY CAPACITOR"] up to full capacity from a 1.4 volt battery and the battery is still 1.4 after i charge it

You see, those are the kind of statements I love to read! Because if you're correct, then I'd bet with anyone that it must be > cop 1 *unless* for obvious reasons there was something seriously wrong with your cap or voltage meter or what equipment used.

... looking forward to testing your claim.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 23, 2009, 08:28:06 PM
For what its worth poynt, I don't see that you've bashed anyone either, you've just been calm and objective as usual.

Last night I replicated the gadget circuit using a constant V source of 1.5V to drive it through a 1ohm non inductive resistor. The charging cap on the OP was a 1F 5V supercap.

[1]
I scoped the input V and I and used my scope to multiply the channels and then perform RMS, thus calculating AVG power in. I timed the run and multiplied power by seconds hence calculating input Joules.

[2]
I measured the start and finish V in the OP cap. Hence calculating output joules. (I was assuming the cap really was 1F)

With tweaking of the base pot I was able to achieve nearly COP 80%.

Perhaps there is something very special about these 650F caps?

Thanks Yucca, much appreciated :)

Also appreciated is your test effort and clear, concise, and frank reporting of the results. More folks ought to aspire to this.

I've started a new JT thread here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8345.msg210413#msg210413

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 08:31:49 PM
I'm not sure I follow you Paul; What I'm asking is How do you know how full a capacitor is - voltage alone is not sufficient to determine this, I could charge a 12v capacitor to 3v, would it be 1/4th full?  Please explain!
Most of these high end capacitor are electrolytic, and act like a fast charging battery.

I don't what you're talking about because in my reply to your statement I never said anything about how full a capacitor is. My reply to you was clearly about batteries. Which do you to talk about. Here's your quote,

Quote
Voltage isn't a great indication of power, in order to fully measure the power in watts, or coulombs, you would need a way to measure exactly how 'full' you capacitor really is.

In terms of conventional science, you can calculate the energy in a battery or capacitor. I've provided one example for 12V car batteries. As far as capacitors, I think everyone here knows the equations. If you want to know how full a capacitor is, then it would be the caps voltage rating.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 08:39:27 PM
I would like to say that there is nothing wrong with using a battery, supercap / ultracap in such test so long as the tester knows how to properly determine the amount of energy contained in it, which is not that difficult given control experiments.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 08:49:37 PM
I don't what you're talking about because in my reply to your statement I never said anything about how full a capacitor is. My reply to you was clearly about batteries. Which do you to talk about. Here's your quote,

In terms of conventional science, you can calculate the energy in a battery or capacitor. I've provided one example for 12V car batteries. As far as capacitors, I think everyone here knows the equations. If you want to know how full a capacitor is, then it would be the caps voltage rating.

Paul

i do agree you can achieve ou with batteries ...  caps are cleaner ...  ;)  all the way round ..

about what i quoted here

you bring up an extreamlly good point here

amps is crap ... good for work... slow work ...   volts are key   volts to amps in a cap ... 

is a CAP OU BY ORIGNAL DESIGN ....  ;D

lol

is

i bet they make really good volts to amps ... convertors   or if you prefer translating devices...  may include batteries  ;D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 23, 2009, 09:01:10 PM

I said i charge this cap up to full capacity from a 1.4 volt battery and the battery is still 1.4 after i charge it.


This is likely to happen if you take but 650 Uf from a 1.4 volt battery...
What would you expect that it will drop by half a Volt??
No ...you can actually refill that cap many times before you will notice a voltage drop on the battery...while using regular equipment.

It's normal.
M.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 09:28:36 PM
This is likely to happen if you take but 650 Uf from a 1.4 volt battery...
What would you expect that it will drop by half a Volt??
No ...you can actually refill that cap many times before you will notice a voltage drop on the battery...while using regular equipment.

It's normal.
M.

It's not 650 uF. It's 650 farads, or 650 million uF,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Maxwell-650-Farad-Ultracapacitor-Electric-Vehicle-Solar_W0QQitemZ370233804626QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5633a78752

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 23, 2009, 09:33:41 PM
Aha those Alien caps  :o

Well then it needs to be looked into  :)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 09:51:20 PM
Alien cap would be a cool name!  ;D

As a comparison to energy density, WikiPedia states, "3-5 W.h/kg for an ultracapacitor compared to 30-40 W.h/kg for a battery). It is also only about 1/10,000th the volumetric energy density of gasoline."  Of course they're talking about a typical ultracap, but wikipedia also says in the same page, "Carbon aerogel capacitors have achieved 325 J/g (90 Wh/kg) energy density"

I guess one of these days capacitors will surpass the energy density of gasoline, but it's still far away.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 23, 2009, 10:00:58 PM
Sounds great,charge your car in less then a second,and drive all night  8)

Ontopic,
I'm still not sure what is happening in Gadget's circuit.
I am not in possesion of these particular caps so i need to purchase some....before i can run a test on this.

Marco.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Magluvin on November 23, 2009, 10:07:58 PM
Hi all
Have been checking out this thread and the schematics above do show a path from the bat to the output, and some of the power could be getting there that way. But a 1.5v bat going through the diode on that path would cut that voltage in nearly in half by the time it reaches the load. So if the voltage at the output is as high as he says, then he just may have something. If the output to the load is around .75v to 1v then it could be the battery giving to the load through the path shown above.
Very interesting stuff.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 10:28:39 PM
im pretty sure i broke the ice ...

if not ...

watch this viedo ...

thease are fireflys

w

your not alone ... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JdbBUZTeAg  take a peek at truth ...  :) see where you can go ....  if we can restore peace to earth! 

there will be no fighting or you all fail ...

my parents are returning HERE ...  ;D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 23, 2009, 11:13:58 PM
This is a long post, please quote carefully!
I don't what you're talking about because in my reply to your statement I never said anything about how full a capacitor is. My reply to you was clearly about batteries. Which do you to talk about. Here's your quote,

***

In terms of conventional science, you can calculate the energy in a battery or capacitor. I've provided one example for 12V car batteries. As far as capacitors, I think everyone here knows the equations. If you want to know how full a capacitor is, then it would be the caps voltage rating.

Paul

I think our trains of thought have diverged, and since I'm so rusty on the math...I'm no longer wondering how you know how full a capacitor is.  The reason I keep asking if there is any way to know the fullness of a capacitor is that, if I take a battery and charge A capacitor of infinite capacity rated at 2.7V for 1 minute, I'm now under the impression, given everyone else's logic, that it will be as full as if I were to charge it for 1 second.

This is not so! of course!
A 650F ultracap charged to 2.7V has 2369 joules.
Edit, of course i did the math wrong, after all that writing...:-/ Iappear to be floundering, please forgive me.

I think there's been a misrepresentation of the statistics of the 650F capacitor @ 2.7v: at maximum, it can hold 2369 coulombs of charge since the energy in a capacitor is { E = 1/2*Volts squared*farads } HOWEVER, the coulombs is C = F*V, if you were to short this, you would dissipate 2369 joules OR 1755 coulombs. As we all know, an amp is a measure of coulombs per second, so, if it were capable of discharging 1755 amps instantly, it would, but not 3500.

http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/datasheets/DATASHEET_MC_SERIES_1009361.pdf (http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/datasheets/DATASHEET_MC_SERIES_1009361.pdf)

Reading the datasheet for the capacitor, you may notice that it's peak discharge rate is 875 amps over 1 second, therefore this capacitor would NOT discharge 1755 amps in one second, but in ~2 seconds.  Even though they state a short circuit discharge of 3500 amps, it's footnoted as not advisable.  And then it's got a maximum continuous rating of 105 amps, so even then it could only dissipate this charge over ~20 seconds.

In batteries, rechargeable, etc, are rated in milliamp hours, for instance, a standard AA is rated at 2450mAh, and usually charges to 1.4V.  These milliamp hours can be converted into coulombs to indicate the total capacity of the battery.

1 milliamp hour is 3.6 coulombs.  The key word here is HOUR.

There are 8820 coulombs in 2450 milliamp hours, and at 1.4V, the resultant math indicates ( if it were treated mathematically similar to a capacitor ) a maximum of 12,348 coulombs - which is far greater than the maximum rating of the capacitor! As Paul has pointed out a page back, there's plenty of charge available.

I'm not sure why some of you think that there's more to be stored in the capacitor than in the battery.

Hi all
Have been checking out this thread and the schematics above do show a path from the bat to the output, and some of the power could be getting there that way. But a 1.5v bat going through the diode on that path would cut that voltage in nearly in half by the time it reaches the load. So if the voltage at the output is as high as he says, then he just may have something. If the output to the load is around .75v to 1v then it could be the battery giving to the load through the path shown above.
Very interesting stuff.

Magluvin

The thing is, the oscillator has a path back to 'ground', therefore when no more charge can be stored in the capacitor, the flow stops or drops to the capacitors leakage current and thus the oscillator works as if the capacitor's not even there ( due to the diode preventing back-flow ).

As a result, the fly-back causes a voltage increase ( as a normal joule thief usually does ) and things proceed as normal.

Musing back to the capacitor, if it were a battery and you were to treat it as one, and it were fully charged at rated voltage, it would be 180.5mAh battery.

FFR, this is the math broken out ( please do correct me if I'm wrong ):
{explanation in braces} C = Coulombs, E = Joules
Battery: 1mAh = 3.6C
2450*3.6*1.4 { mAh * Conversion * voltage } = 12,348 C

Capacitor: 1F = 1Coulomb per volt
650*2.7 { Farads * Volts } = 1755 C
or
1/2 * 650*2.7^2 { 1/2*Volts squared*farads  } = 2369 joules

1755 / ( 2.7*3.6 ) { Coulombs divided by ( volts * milliamp to coulomb conversion }= 180.5mAh
- - - - - - - - -

The only thing interesting about this is that the voltage remained relatively the same. But it would! And I believe that it did After all, there's flyback generating a higher voltage..  This is why I maintain that voltage isn't the greatest indicator of what's going on.

Not sure if this is a valid comparrison, but; How many of you can get a full charge on your cell phone battery ( voltage returns to normal ) but it just doesn't last as long? ...

I think what's happening is the voltage is staying relatively the same, but coulombs are being expended.  The increased voltage in the circuit, due to the oscillator, appears as a result of the clever design of the circuit (by you, us, them, etc).  The non-intuitive result is that the circuit as a whole appears to have no voltage drops thanks to fly back and capacitance.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 11:27:37 PM
Quote from: PaulLowrance
A 650F ultracap charged to 2.7V has 2369 joules.

I'm not sure how you came up with those numbers.

I think there's been a misrepresentation of the statistics of the 650F capacitor @ 2.7v: at maximum, it can hold 1755 coulombs of charge since 1 farad = 1 coulomb per volt, if you were to short this, you would dissipate 1755 coulombs instantly. As we all know, an amp is a measure of coulombs per second, so, if it were capable of discharging 1755 amps instantly, it would, but not 3500.

As you probably know, a joule is a unit of energy, and coulomb is electric charge. One coulomb equals 1A * 1s. The energy contained in a capacitor is 1/2 * C * V^2.  So 1/2 * 650F * 2.7^2 = 2369 joules.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 23, 2009, 11:32:05 PM
@groundloop . Here is a replication of the Ou controler . Its just waiting for the parts missing a few diodes and two scr's and a few connections

It will be a Nice little package indeed !!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 23, 2009, 11:36:50 PM
PaulLowrance,

I agree with you. And that means that the only thing we need to know is
the voltage a capacitor has, to be able to find the energy stored, as long
as we know the capacitor value.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 23, 2009, 11:38:29 PM
I'm not sure how you came up with those numbers.

I think there's been a misrepresentation of the statistics of the 650F capacitor @ 2.7v: at maximum, it can hold 1755 coulombs of charge since 1 farad = 1 coulomb per volt, if you were to short this, you would dissipate 1755 coulombs instantly. As we all know, an amp is a measure of coulombs per second, so, if it were capable of discharging 1755 amps instantly, it would, but not 3500.

As you probably know, a joule is a unit of energy, and coulomb is electric charge. One coulomb equals 1A * 1s. The energy contained in a capacitor is 1/2 * C * V^2.  So 1/2 * 650F * 2.7^2 = 2369 joules.

Paul

Yes you are correct, i've apparently hobbled the math - as we WERE discussing power and energy, however, I did go back and edit my some of my ignorance out :P and thank you for the comparison / correction.

What I was interested in is the potential amps which could be produced.  Hopefully I've gotten the rest of the math right ( but probably not ).

Gadget, could you resize that image, it's simply massive!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 23, 2009, 11:41:27 PM
@gadgetmall,

It looks nice. The missing parts is being shipped by Santa right now. :-)

I have made a little change to the circuit. I have made room for a larger BY255
instead of the 1N4007 (charge current going back to AA battery) by your request.
So the new pcb (when done) has room for this diode. (There are some BY255 in your parcel.)

Groundloop.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 11:44:39 PM
I'm just waiting for someone to say this is not topic of advanced JT. But gadget's claim is so big, that it encompasses all threads.  ;D

If gadget can charge the 650F cap to like 2.5V, then assuming the manufacturer is correct about it being 650F, then one can *efficiently* discharge the cap and get very close to 1/2 * 650F * 2.5V^2 = 2031 joules. That's money in the bank, no?

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 23, 2009, 11:49:27 PM
PaulLowrance,

Attached is a "little" drawing that I made just now.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 12:05:50 AM
thank you everyone ...

i hope you get what you need ...  to keep you trucking along this path..  ;D

gl 

love the picture ...


you see i can be rude i can be calm nice all that ... 

it is your action that dirrectlly effects mine ..

i get a little hyper wild and such when people right away say nope its not ou your wrong.. 

i have finally gotten slowed back down ...  my my   

you get in the vortex and its wild ..

so sorry if i was rude to anyone .. dont take it to heart ... 

ill tell ya ... i bairly swan in the current ...  there ..

it is damm fast moveing..

w

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 24, 2009, 12:11:56 AM
PaulLowrance,

Attached is a "little" drawing that I made just now.

Alex.

Not sure I follow your logic, this is assuming that you use exactly 1/12th the battery?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 24, 2009, 12:17:57 AM
@jadaro2600,

Where in the drawing has I used the word exactly?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 12:18:44 AM
Not sure I follow your logic, this is assuming that you use exactly 1/12th the battery?
EXACTLY jarado . Question . now what if we i only use 5/1000ths of that same battery to do the same job??
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Magluvin on November 24, 2009, 12:32:35 AM
hey Gadget
Do you think that some of the power produced in the coil goes back to the battery also?
A lot of this is making sense.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 24, 2009, 12:33:20 AM
@jadaro2600,

Where in the drawing has I used the word exactly?

Groundloop.
??? what word?
EXACTLY jarado . Question . now what if we i only use 5/1000ths of that same battery to do the same job??
That would be GREAT! ..this boils back down to my initially idiotic question:

"How do you know how full a capacitor is?" ..and thus you can switch it when you know that it is...  this question should be rephrased to "How does your ( future ) circuit know when the capacitor is fully charged?"

Voltage gated? - JFET maybe?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 12:37:48 AM
hey Gadget
Do you think that some of the power produced in the coil goes back to the battery also?
A lot of this is making sense.

Magluvin

im almost willing to bet when you understand this ...

a hole lot of things make a hole lot of sence  ;D ;)

ist ;D

i wonder now agin about the ULTRA LOW RESISTANCE...  i bet i have an even better way than i have exposed to charge thease yet  ;)    with ring designs already showen ..

makes sence to me and i have charged them in the past with out output diodes....  ;D as well driven 110v lights with out diodes ...  or earth ground  some of thease not in feroite nor ring configs.. altho agin they all work the same way ... just look diffrent ...

if we get a magnetic feild moveing in 1 dirrection  you can pull dc ...  and if it is tuned to 0 loss you can have many outputs   and if you match up the proper freq ... it may well get intresting ...

i have a mod to mutiply the freq of the output ...  not the core the output

then the little turbine spinns up ...  you can hear it ramp up
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Magluvin on November 24, 2009, 12:41:37 AM
The amount of electrons stored in a capacitor can be directly related to the voltage it is charged to, depending on the caps specifications. Batteries can be elusive on the same terms. But a cap when charged to a particular voltage will have the same energy capability every time, unless the specs are changed due to heat, age, overcharging damage.

Mags
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 12:47:35 AM
??? what word?That would be GREAT! ..this boils back down to my initially idiotic question:

"How do you know how full a capacitor is?" ..and thus you can switch it when you know that it is...  this question should be rephrased to "How does your ( future ) circuit know when the capacitor is fully charged?"

Voltage gated? - JFET maybe?
This circuit board above will contain two silicon controlled rectifiers . The first one monitors the aa battery and hits it with a charge from the bcab at what ever level i set it to to make up for any loss.You can demonstrate this your self without the control board if you replicate the heater circuit . Simply let the Ultracapacitor charge above the AA battery voltage and take one jummper and connectit to the pos of the Bcap and then touch the pos of the run battery . Be sure you have your meter hook up to theaa battery!  The second scr controls and monitors the bcap voltage at a setting i chose .The bcap will only charge to a set voltage by a zenar diode . we are not concerned with over chaging as the demonstration for Stephan he want no heat and only lights so the second scr will control switching the output to a voltage that is high enuff to allow the first scr to do its work.
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 24, 2009, 12:50:54 AM
Mags is correct.

Capacitance is capacitance, so the trick is in finding the capacitance for a given situation. That's why I've mentioned "control experiments," which tells a lot. Although in gadgets case/claim, all of that "ain't" going to make a bit of difference unless the cap is out right broken, or unless gadget works on Mars in wicked weather. Are you on Mars, gadget?  :) If one wants to get into the dirty details, then yes, everyone here knows the capacitance varies depending on its charge, temperature, how long it's allowed to settle down.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 01:07:37 AM
@ mags thank you and i quote The amount of electrons stored in a(650farad) capacitor can be directly related to the voltage it is charged to, depending on the caps specifications. Batteries can be elusive on the same terms. But a cap when charged to a particular voltage (2.6 will have the same energy (9100watts released slow)capability every time !!!!
@paul Can you read ?and understand what he just said . ?? I warned you !
I will in no way put up with nonsence from newcommers.Nor wil a say one more thing for you TWIST around . YOU have not contribuited to this thread and have made it SHAMEFUL . WHERE IS YOUR CIRCUIT ? WHERE IS YOUR FORUMULA? WHERE IS EVEN A PICTURE OF ONE OF YOUR JT PROJECTS ?
All the Rest of you that have no contribution to My circuit and cannot replicate it go somewhere else . And talk about me there . You will be so sorry you did . Stephan and My friends that contribuited are the only ones getting Ou boards . So G nite 

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 24, 2009, 01:50:35 AM
@all

Factor unseen or unconformable , first of even before the jt toroid get hit by the first pulse the ferrite toroid core is already under stress .

First you need to consider gravity , if you let it go won't it hit the ground ?

That field is usually ignored because we can't see it or consider because everything , all mater is submitted to the same field.

Now where is the kick from ?

Switching on and off a coil will disturb the earth field contained in the toroid and it react violently by creating a type of implosive reaction that has Ou potential ,we are not that experimented with implosive concepts , and it is quite different from explosive technologies.

Physic is physic , try it find a bottle of beer and fill is with water , hit the top of the bottle neck , by hitting the bottle so that a pocket of air is created at the bottom of the bottle , if you succeed you will be left with a bottom less bottle , broken from the implosion.

So to conclude , the toroid is already filed with juice , we just need to find a way to tap it .


Me crazy ? yep don't care much ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 02:06:18 AM
its the crazys that inflect change

i know it is the resistance of the ubcap to the s cap that is the diff ... 

radient likes low resistance and at high freq ...  when you slow it down a little you get a lot more ..

because it is hv hf    high freq bridges are best suited for pulsed dc ..  lower resistance on on the bridge . and cap .. = more ou  :P

it will fill faster

is

try and find a 1 ohm bridge .. good luck!  they probly do have them  ...  but you never will see them ...  unless things change ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 03:17:33 AM
on going experiment with 7 year old nicad brought back to life several times when new was 850mah . As you can see the Bcap is charging still gathering volts+ Amps . I am only concerned with  how much voltage will the old battery fill the Boostcap to and how much time .After this test is complete . i will redo the test with the Eneigizer everady 2500ma AA battery ni-mh and graph it again except on the same page .. It appears this old battery will run for a very long time but i am not getting the same results as the newer ni-mh batter with way more amp hours .2500mah to be exact . This will more than likely go Ou in  several more hours ,days ? Anyway . i have aduplicat circuit and the Ni-mh is charged up now and i am ready to repete Experiment 1 . Full Aa Battery Charging an ultracap up over the Unity of the run battery to a higher voltage and a much higher amperage . ie aa battery =2.5 amps@1.5 volts  and charged Bcap will be 2.5 to 2.6 volts @ or above 3000amps

 Time           RUN                CHARGE

6:45 pm         1.495              .544
6:50 pm         1.438              .550
10:50pm        1.358              .605
11:10pm        1.344               .803
12:20am        1.334               .846
 6:05 am        1.310               1.000
 9:18am         1.304               1.048
 9.59             1.303                1.058
11:08 am        1.300                1.076
1:10pm           1.298                 1.103
5:15pm            1.294               1.149
9:08pm             1.293                1.190
10:30pm            1.291                1.205
11:50pm            1.290                 1.218
8:48am 24th       1.285                 1.295
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 24, 2009, 03:32:05 AM
There's being skeptic and then there's being milehigh. What exactly is your agenda milehigh, why are you trying so hard to distract people away from this recent event. Your crusade against this cheap ass circuit makes you look very suspicious, there's no reason why people SHOULDN'T build this circuit for themselves, yet you have made it your mission to "inform" people how everything GM has been doing so far is bull without at least showing your own doctored data.
 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2009, 03:49:04 AM
Milehigh's Posts deleted. 



He was warned many times.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 03:55:43 AM
i think the event called  the kick ... witch btw there  diffrent  kicks .. 

but the jt kick ..  is infact the reconnect . of spins  kinda makes me think we unspin them with the inputted power and cut it they reconnect ... and so on ...

this is a half assed way to do it tho ... lol

and i aint jokeing   much better results are atained both pos and neg ..  then you have TRUE SPIN SEPERATON ON THE ON  AND RECONNECT ON THE OFF ... 

nature is free  YOU ONLY PAY TO PULL EM APART ...

HAVE YOU GOT THIS NOW ... 

now with a 5 year old and some wire i want to see a teleportor lol

w

and honestly i dont even think you pay to pull them apart ... it does cost as nothing is free ...  but the tiny amount it does cost is sent through as output with the reconect   so it never got lost it is simply shifted ..

as long as you trap it .. 

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 24, 2009, 04:30:44 AM
I just replaced gadget's right capacitor with a rechargeable battery; And charged it.  Oddly enough, I'm not using his circuit layout, simply the standard joule thief with the "Capacitor Appendage" that Gadget added minus the heater wire and switch.  ( i'm limited creatively here ).  Voltage started at 0.988volts and is now sitting at 1.207 down from 1.271 an hour ago when I pulled it off.  Source voltage started at 1.233 and is stable at 1.221.  Very interesting; I do take note that the voltage seems to be dropping as if the battery, charged in this way, is acting like a bleeding capacitor.  It will be checked tomorrow again.

I was thinking that making a bi-symmetrical model ( two joule thief circuits opposing one another where the source for one is the charged for the other - which is the source for the other...thus a recursive circuit ).  Perhaps a DIAC is critically placed between the two and might replace the need for a complicated switching circuit... honestly though, I think a circuit in this configuration would reach a resonance, peak, and hover around the batteries max voltage, at which point they would start producing heat ( the real indication  ;) ).
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 24, 2009, 05:22:19 AM
jadaro,
This reminds me of what the bedini circuit does.

Bedini works at what appears to me to be a disadvantage by not using a toroid nor by centertapping his, but he can recharge 3 to 4 batteries in this basic jt light spot where gadget has his bcap.
I am delighted to hear you got some recharging from a battery put there.
I did too, but never pursued it, so that is 2 of us, and I think lidmotor made a circuit combining the joule thief and bedini which went something like what you are describing, so maybe that is 3.

Those spikes apparently do some powerful work inside a rechargeable battery.
John says the carbon/zinc do not recharge very well but alkalines can be recharged this way too.

I have not studied it too much, but according to folks who have been doing this, the charge gets to staying more  the more you repeat the process, so keep doing this with the same battery and see.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 24, 2009, 06:16:48 AM
I just replaced gadget's right capacitor with a rechargeable battery; And charged it.  Oddly enough, I'm not using his circuit layout, simply the standard joule thief with the "Capacitor Appendage" that Gadget added minus the heater wire and switch.  ( i'm limited creatively here ).  Voltage started at 0.988volts and is now sitting at 1.207 down from 1.271 an hour ago when I pulled it off.  Source voltage started at 1.233 and is stable at 1.221.

If I understand you correctly, and you gave the batteries sufficient rest period to settle down, then that's incredible. The AA source battery started at 1.233V, ended at 1.221V, and the charge battery started at 0.988V, ended at 1.207V? I'm wondering if we can get another person to replicate this, perhaps Yucca. Eventually I'll start building one as well.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2009, 07:08:34 AM
Yes, those spikes can charge a battery ala Bedini but, as I found out a while back, those spikes are saved as usable power in a super capacitor and, as gadget is saying, in the boostcap as well.  This is what I found when I first hooked one to my JT circuits and then to my EER.  They charge really fast and you get real power out, not just volts.  It is amazing.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 24, 2009, 08:03:23 AM
@jadaro2600,

>>"How does your ( future ) circuit know when the capacitor is fully charged?"

If you look at my posted add on circuit for the JT you will see that there is two SCRs.
The bottom one (T1) is biased from the voltage over the super capacitor via two
1N4007 diodes. The voltage drop in the 1N4007 is 0,7 volt each (approx.).
Then you have two resistors limiting the trigger current going to the T1.

When the super capacitor charges up, the voltage for the trigger of T1 will at some
point reach more than 1 volt. The R2 (10K pot) is adjusted so that the trigger current
at that point is above the minimum required trigger current for the TIC106 to switch on.
This will connect the load to the super capacitor and the super capacitor will discharge.
When the current through the T1 has fallen to less than some mA then the TIC106 will switch
off again, and the cycle will repeat.

Now, the other SCR (T2) is there to give a little feed back to the AA battery.
The 1N4007 diode drops the volt 0,7 volt. The R4 (10K pot) is adjusted so that
the SCR will trigger when the voltage over the super capacitor reach 2,6 volt (approx.)
The voltage in the AA will rapid increase and when the voltage in the AA is higher than the
voltage on the other side of the SCR (near the 1N4007) then the current through the SCR will
stop flowing and the SCR will switch off. This will top up the AA battery each time it has fallen
below the threshold level. D4 will be a BY255 on the new circuit.

The aim of the circuit is to let the super capacitor charge up to 2,6 Volt each time before
discharging it to the load.
I apologize for being a little "short" last night, but it was late at night and I also have a day job
to take care of.

I hope this answered your questions.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 08:18:38 AM
heat!

i can melt carbon rods .. i have melted stainless ...  but trust me you do not want that ..

worst way to do it .. this is why the coliders keep getting tampered with ... 

fire it up and call a solar flare  :o :o :o :o  duh!   

less you like radiation and x ray ..  ;)  plus it will damm near blind ya! it is so powerfull

i burn big diodes up  like 1000v 4 amp or something fr diodes too boot !

answer no! to heat ...  unless you do it gadgets way off the output cap

a video

ra!

RA AH AH AH!  O LA LA GA GA! HOT!  ;D  BAD ROMANCE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACm9yECwSso

BTW BORG EYE IS ONLINE  OR WAS ..   i could feel the darn thing .... AKA   K BASE..  8)  you could tell when it got turned on ... i almost told some how to tp to the hollow earth ...  with out coils..  :o

yikes..  quick turn it off...  :D :o :o  oops

look at what she wheres on my dark eye..  she i think may be re...  lol 
 :)

i was ra!  ;) not now

 ;)

btw do not do that agin!   unless im wearing my belt ..  the streem is too fast!

whats the belt

 12 and 1 ring a bell  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Magluvin on November 24, 2009, 10:04:04 AM
Not to break up the scuffle, or maybe it will for a post, but I was thinking what I said earlier about the number of electrons is directly related to the voltage across the cap.
 I should have probably said, when a capacitor has no charge potential between 2 plates, 0.0000000v, the number of electrons in each plate should be equal, in theory of course. One or both plates could have more or less electrons due to static charge, but we will ignore that for our purposes.

When a voltage potential difference is introduced across the capacitor, one plate will be loaded with excess electrons, and the other plate will be depleted of electrons, and the number of electrons gained on the excess plate, should be the same as the number of removed electrons from the depleted plate, and that number is directly related to the voltage potential difference across that cap, at the time. Much better, dont you think? =]

If a transformer, inductor, (current source) is producing that voltage across the cap, then we can say that the electrons are transferred from one plate to another, till the caps charge is equal to the voltage source. But if we have a battery as a voltage source, the electrons taken from one plate, will not be the same electrons forced into the other plate. The depleted plate electrons will be pulled and stored only on the positive terminal side of the battery, and the excess plate electrons will only come from the negative terminal side of the battery till the charge voltage potential on the cap is equal to the battery voltage. The electrons dont move through the battery from one side to the other unless a conductive path exists from the positive to the negative terminals externally. Ignoring leakage of course. Theory.

There you have it. Its deep, but a better explanation of what is actually happening. Thought that might get some real discussion going again here and break up the rhetoric. A 650 farad cap is quite huge in terms of charge and can produce "instantaneous" currents soo much higher than any battery.
I have a 50 farad 20v cap in my Fiero installed after a Jacobs Accuvolt voltage regulator that can regulate up to 100 amps continuous, but with "The Cap"  thats what they call it, I can have over 200 continuous amps, regulated available. The Jacobs can be set from 12v up to 16v, via 10 turn pot.
You may ask, Magfrikinluvin, are you going "Back to the future" with that thing?  lol   I am into serious custom car audio. I use older Soundstream Class A amps(not quite class A, nor tube amps, but they are the sweetest amps I have ever heard in a car) The PS in these amps are unregulated and giving them 15.9v reg. input can give me much more power than the 12v rms ratings on the amps. The peak clean output of these amps are not restricted to regulated rail voltages. The rail voltage of a loosely regulated PS in a car amp is 50 to 75% higher than a regulated PS amp of the same RMS ratings at 12v. Most music is peaks so you get more voltage to the speakers most of the time this way. A regulated PS amp will clip at the rms rail voltage, but unreg rails will be quite higher most of the time, thus more clean power.
Thus my reasons for me cap.
This cap comes with a 100 amp relay to disconnect when ignition is off due to leakage inherently in The Cap so it wont discharge the battery(8 yr old tech). Using 4awg power and gnd wire from the battery to the cap, when that relay connects the cap, the 4awg wire twitches. And it tells you that will happen in the caps user manual. Sick.
I run my whole electrical system in the car off of the setup, except the alternator and starter. My lights are bright, my fans are belowin, my windows are up and down faster than any fiero, and the spark at the plugs is babam. Fuel pump has more pressure. etc. I love it.

Ok  sorry for going way off track.  All that from and attempt to correct my earlier quote. =]

Mags
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 01:26:35 PM
If I understand you correctly, and you gave the batteries sufficient rest period to settle down, then that's incredible. The AA source battery started at 1.233V, ended at 1.221V, and the charge battery started at 0.988V, ended at 1.207V? I'm wondering if we can get another person to replicate this, perhaps Yucca. Eventually I'll start building one as well.

Paul
Paul this is nothing new . please check jesus thread . all this has been covered with batteries all ready . someone replicat me is the challange . show me your circuit!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 24, 2009, 01:31:24 PM
@gadgetmall,

My test JT is up and running. Next I will make the add on circuit
for automated discharge and test that circuit. But I will not
have time for that until the weekend.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 02:09:29 PM
@gadgetmall,

My test JT is up and running. Next I will make the add on circuit
for automated discharge and test that circuit. But I will not
have time for that until the weekend.

Alex.
Sweet . here is Experiment 1 ready to go . all i need to do is put some leds on the secondary . I am using a 1500farad ultracapacitor this time .Pirate please feel free to resize this dang big photo . I cannot with out changing the resolution and it look grainy like crap .here is abrief summery of what this circuit did .:Hi  thanks for your intrest . I will give you a short summery of My discovery and device .

Simply put you build a normal 11 turn Jt on a one inch toroid. I used a goldmine 5 for a dollar one . one out of a computer powersupply might work as well ,mayme better . i use a 2n2222a its a metal can transistor . I tried 2n3906 mpsa05 and a germanium . the 2n2222a works best. OK so there was lots of room on the other side of the torroid so i wound a 22turn secondary for a pick up coil and placed ledson it .you may have to flip the led to get it to turn on . the winding is polarized . Ok . Now from the collector of the transistor i added a germaniun diode . the stripe side of the diod goes to the plus of My chargeing ultracap the neg of the ucap goes to the emmiter of negitive connection to the run battery Its a n aa energizer regchargable Ni-mh 2500mah camera battery .. I run the circuit . my battery volts start is 1.495 . after 14 or so hours ,could be more up to a day the ultrap fills up over 2.600 volts ,way above the run battery that is now showing 1.490, atotal loss of 5/1000th of a volt !! cool . so now in order to make this self run i simple take a jumper and place it on the charging cap positive connection and touch it for a few seconds to positive on the run battery and immetiatly the run battery charges way beyoud the loss it incurred . groundloop (Alex)along with me building a circuit board that will do this automatically . the whole time all the above is occuring the leds remain lit PLUS i have afull ultracap which is a powerful battery in it self to do work like run a nichrome coil for heat for hook up more Jts to run ,leds ,motors anything that requires 2.5 volts at over 3000amps . I just dont see why others don't get it ? I have repeated this over and over . IT is a true over the unity of the run battery .period .  have fun . I will have professional circuit boards soon after we tweak the circuit(hopefully) . The circuit board will also control a load to the ultracap thus providing a load to discharge it so the cycle repeats over an dover and over and over . you see ??
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 24, 2009, 04:10:39 PM
this was deleted from poynt99's farce of a thread by the very guy who claims to be objective... so i opted to put it here where it will won't be deleted and the moderators ARE objective.

You're not making much sense Mk1  ???

Do you have a point or a contribution?

I doubt all folks are as up to speed on the JT as you seem to think you are, and since you're anxious to move forward, study this:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=209

...and this seems to clearly sum up your knowledge of this circuit:
What invention are you referring to? Are you saying that a bcap being charged by a small boost converter circuit is new, novel or worthy of a patent?

Please try to make some rational sense in your posts this point forward, or they'll probably be deleted.

.99
he made total sense. his point is same as the one i brought up... which is, you're not adding anything new to the discussion. at least you haven't yet. all of what you have said has been covered numerous times in the jt thread. maybe you should study it and you wouldn't have to resort to incorrect assumptions like your 'summation' of mk1's knowledge about the circuit... are you saying you have read the thread entirely or are you jumping the gun?

Okay so from what i know, there was a video from a couple of guy's that showed how to build a joule thief.
They showed that with this device it was possible to lite up LED's from a battery, of which terminal voltage was too low to power the LED's directly.
They said the battery was empty.

So it was a device to get the last bit of energy out of a battery by boosting up the voltage...
Just a means to boost up the voltage to power the LED, and they never even made a OU claim what so ever.

Then these JT threads start to pop up on the boards and people are claiming OU from JT circuits....

Marco.
have you actually read the thread marco are you engaging in assumption and conjecture as well?
no one to my knowledge has claimed OU in the joule thief thread until now... other than IST, but when isn't IST claiming OU? a lttle less hyperbole and a little more accuracy please.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 05:39:17 PM
i will say i can add i can count and sure i have figured many things out ..
so here we  are .. 

all tests indicate im correct!

nothing have ever been built that can touch it ...

espically if i throw the sm kick at it ...  probally blow the damm caps ...

 8)

trust me  i know where  we can take this to a level never seen !

ist!

i feel i do not need to show proof at this time .. i will and i hope a few will build it ..  8)
the proof is showen

we finally got the ee's to calculate it properly

the cop on gadget's fast test  is 2.44 / 1 cycle cap charge .. 
so this ou.. 

it goes less than nothing ..  when i use the output of MY CAN

means infanite efficiency.. over the required start up engery ..

it then CYCLES WITH GAIN!

AND IT COST FROM SOURCE 5/1000V OVER 14H

i will agree i think the math of 1 charge cycle has been  properly calculated ! on the starter !

w

so all in all the ee's woke up  ;D   fact is it does not matter as i will drop a high efficient design on the can .. and soon wash away any rain ..

this was 1 of the most basic jt's  that was tested !

right gadget!  it is just a plain one ... and 2.44 cop   ;D 

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: FatBird on November 24, 2009, 05:51:21 PM
Gadget,


1.  What is the approximate frequency of the charging circuit?

2.  How many minutes does it take for the 650 Farad Cap to charge up to about 1.5 Volts?

3.  Can your circuit feed a Heating Coil Load continuously, or only after the Cap is charged for several Minutes or several Hours?


Thank you.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 05:58:24 PM
I decided to keep it the same way it was . I will not report on what my 1500farads are doing   ;D   This  information is for Me alone .unless you replicate it;)  ;D
This is the completed unit . one difference is i used one one watt led and one 20ma led on the secondary AND i used heavier wire #22 on the toroid .Its all compact so the cat can stomp on it all he likes . I could probably throw it and it will run . the current will be adjusted to 13ma however i am noticing a much higher charge rate at that level with the heaver wire ??? ?Its adjustable now from 5 ma to 21 ma . I will begin the test with the other battery i charged  and also i will discharge this 650f cap to .500 after i eat lunch.you can see the 1 watt led +20ma led dont count and is free energy all the time .I am just using it as  an indicator and they are about 1/2bright now .They get very bright once the cap charges and as a plus it light up the room as is. the 1 watt for Stephan will be drawn from the bcap once it reaches its volts  of 2.6 safety margin .This is a standard JT ,no control circuit on this one .This is a Test comming up,redo experiment 1 but with bigger wire for the toroid..feel free bill to resize
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 06:24:39 PM
i will say i can add i can count and sure i have figured many things out ..
so here we  are .. 

all tests indicate im correct!

nothing have ever been built that can touch it ...

espically if i throw the sm kick at it ...  probally blow the damm caps ...

 8)

trust me  i know where  we can take this to a level never seen !

ist!

i feel i do not need to show proof at this time .. i will and i hope a few will build it ..  8)
the proof is showen

we finally got the ee's to calculate it properly

the cop on gadget's fast test  is 2.44 / 1 cycle cap charge .. 
so this ou.. 

it goes less than nothing ..  when i use the output of MY CAN

means infanite efficiency.. over the required start up engery ..

it then CYCLES WITH GAIN!

AND IT COST FROM SOURCE 5/1000V OVER 14H

i will agree i think the math of 1 charge cycle has been  properly calculated ! on the starter !

w

so all in all the ee's woke up  ;D   fact is it does not matter as i will drop a high efficient design on the can .. and soon wash away any rain ..

this was 1 of the most basic jt's  that was tested !

right gadget!  it is just a plain one ... and 2.44 cop   ;D
you are correct Ist . And I know if this little simple Standard Jt is BLOWING their MIND and WILL WIN the MONEY !!!YOU design will be 10 times the COP i am getting . This is so easy and bettery yet the circuit Alex is putting together can self run this bad boy until the battery get so dried up its stops working . i dont care about efficieny tolerances of the cap NoR will i or any of you be alive before the life of the cap is over . By then Everyone in the world will have free energy and i am proud to be part of the little Gang we got here and also be the one to give this away for the poor folks and freezing childred who have to be in the dark at night because ther is no electricity ... Tell ya what . the output of the CE junction with the diode is 14 volts . Next experiment going to series parallel 6 caps . O by the way there are 4 left to sale . I am holding back 10 just incase and also for Stephan and a good friend i just made. . i own 7 and one 1500f  already so ... .  we can still get them but they will be 2X higher . there will be no more deal bcaps from maxwell. Sorry .... Avarage Cost will still be below 300Us for a perpetual selfrunning mini MONSTER!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 24, 2009, 06:46:21 PM
@gadgetmall,

I have upgraded my test circuit with another Germanium diode. I then took a really discharged
(down to 7 volt) lead acid battery (12 volt 7Ah) and connected at the output. Then I connected
a worn out 9 Volt Duracell battery (it was 8 volt) to the input. I have one ultra bright led at
the third coil on the toroid as shown in the drawing.

Now, since there is a direct path from plus on the input battery and through the little Germanium diode,
then I did expect that this diode should have blown up when I connected the charge battery.

It did NOT do that!

Instead the charge battery is slowly climbing in volt, indicating that a charge
is going on. I also did expect that the drain on the input battery should have been high for the
same reason as stated above. That did not happen either.

So now I can confirm that your circuit is indeed capable of charging a low resitive device at the output.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 24, 2009, 06:55:12 PM
Groundloop:

Thank you for your efforts and your posts.  These are exactly the constructive, productive kind of posts that are needed here.

@ Wilby:

Yes, I saw where they are insulting MK1 over there.  This shows they have not read even the first few pages of the JT topic or they would see how much MK1 came up with and contributed.  His MK style windings on the toroids are still being used today by many folks and he has advanced our research to a much higher level.  But, I guess none of that counts with some people that have not bothered to read.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 06:58:03 PM
gadget i dont think you should...

ok just 1 time!

tip ...

the more you take the faster it runs ...  ;)

i have self accelerating pulse motors

that operate in this manner ...

more i take faster they spinn!!

the jt will not do this properly as per its design ..

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 24, 2009, 07:40:44 PM
on going experiment with 7 year old nicad brought back to life several times when new was 850mah . As you can see the Bcap is charging still gathering volts+ Amps . I am only concerned with  how much voltage will the old battery fill the Boostcap to and how much time .After this test is complete . i will redo the test with the Eneigizer everady 2500ma AA battery ni-mh and graph it again except on the same page .. It appears this old battery will run for a very long time but i am not getting the same results as the newer ni-mh batter with way more amp hours .2500mah to be exact . This will more than likely go Ou in  several more hours ,days ? Anyway . i have aduplicat circuit and the Ni-mh is charged up now and i am ready to repete Experiment 1 . Full Aa Battery Charging an ultracap up over the Unity of the run battery to a higher voltage and a much higher amperage . ie aa battery =2.5 amps@1.5 volts  and charged Bcap will be 2.5 to 2.6 volts @ or above 3000amps

 Time           RUN                CHARGE

6:45 pm         1.495              .544
6:50 pm         1.438              .550
10:50pm        1.358              .605
11:10pm        1.344               .803
12:20am        1.334               .846
 6:05 am        1.310               1.000
 9:18am         1.304               1.048
 9.59             1.303                1.058
11:08 am        1.300                1.076
1:10pm           1.298                 1.103
5:15pm            1.294               1.149
9:08pm             1.293                1.190
10:30pm            1.291                1.205
11:50pm            1.290                 1.218
8:48am 24th       1.285                 1.295
1:40pm               1.283                 1.333 :) getting there with old battery


also i started My Experiment 1 redo test but i will not report My numbers to keep it all on one page . sooo . I'll writh the numbers down and then post when its charged !! If anyone is intrested in my bad battery experiment with duplicate setup i will stop posting the number when it reaches unity.I cant edit post after a days and i dont want to clutter up this thread . thank you . you all carry on ..so far the old battery as you can see is dropping about almost 2 to3 tenths of a volt so far BUT look what it did !!No one else did this experiment but me ney sayers thasay this is nothing new????? see you all in a few days with the results .l8r
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2009, 08:18:25 PM
Hi Gadget,
why do you quote always 3000 amps ?

This is very unrealistic, as your load resistors will have not such low
ohms to allow at all to flow such huge currents..
Also these high amps (maybe in the 100 amps range only) would  flow only for
a few seconds, until the supercap will be discharged.

But have a look at:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.msg210654#msg210654

where Dr. Stiffler measured already an energy gain during charge and
discharge intervals in  supercaps in my opinion.
Maybe this is the effect you are using to get a COP > 1 ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 08:21:12 PM
do you recall what was revieled ? the day the music died!?

the marching band will never cease to yeild  ;)

!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 10:33:17 PM
what if we built a unit that you could call lightning ...  and use that bolt .. as a blast off ufo system ..

could be the univirses  first!  :P  worlds first ...  thats so first grade... lol

ist!

BTW im no diffrent than ALL of you ......   
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gotoluc on November 25, 2009, 01:14:57 AM
Hi Gadget and everyone,

interesting where you have taken the Joule Thief ;)

Glad to see Groundloop (Alex) is here and helping as usual.

I did a little research on AA batteries and this is what I have found. A 1.2 volts Rechargeable 2500mAhr battery will give out a total of 3 Watts/Hr and a 1.5 volts 2500mAhr battery will give out a total of 3.75 Watts/Hr.

I'm no math wiz but I can see where you're going with this and I applaud you for the idea and mostly sharing it.

Here are the conversions in Watts/hr of batteries and a 650 Farad Ultracap

2500 mAmps/Hr x 1.2 volts = 3 Watts/Hr

2500 mAmps/Hr x 1.5 volts = 3.75 Watts/Hr

650 Farads at 2.6 Volts = 2197 Joules

2197 Joules = 0.61 Watt/Hr

It would seem that you could charge your 650 Farad Ultracap to a maximum of 5 times with a fully charged 1.2 volt battery before your battery is flat.

I will definitely replicate your experiment as I have some Ultracaps and Nichrome wire on hand.

For anyone interested, here is a good link to convert most every measurement system: http://www.nettam.com/convert.html

Luc
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 01:22:03 AM
welcome luc

its been a long time old friend!  :)

i look forward to your most wonderful work!

peace!

w814
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gotoluc on November 25, 2009, 01:27:58 AM
Thanks IS :)

This kind of creative experiment is right up my alley ;D

It will be a pleasure to play with this.

Luc
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 01:43:22 AM
i think the best 1" gm toroide would be a turbine unit ... that speeds up till it rings the output...


 ;D

or aproches resonance ....  once you get it whipping round and round  you can pulse it ...  and get massive kicks...  and it dont slow down

thease are beond what most can visualize.. 

sure is fun tho..  :)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2009, 01:44:50 AM
Luc:

I too echo IST's sediments...welcome and we are glad you are here.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 01:53:44 AM
 :D :D :D :D

im starting to wonder   lmao 

if we cant get thease AG coils to start jumping off the table  :D ;D


lol

w814

has anyone else figured out the st badge b4? 

the massive kicks are kept magnetic ....  this is your porpulsion sys ..  for AG  find the right freq .. 

probally air core is best sutited   it use natures reconect as electromagnetic radiating push..

i know im off the hook ... lol  lost it some call it ... i personally think i found it  8)

if this was a huge ego and money thing ...  dont ya think i would have built and sold it ... lol

i choose the truth and now i have it ...  guess thats what ya get when you work at something ...

 :o
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 25, 2009, 03:21:13 AM
I just replaced gadget's right capacitor with a rechargeable battery; And charged it.  Oddly enough, I'm not using his circuit layout, simply the standard joule thief with the "Capacitor Appendage" that Gadget added minus the heater wire and switch.  ( i'm limited creatively here ).  Voltage started at 0.988volts and is now sitting at 1.207 down from 1.271 an hour ago when I pulled it off.  Source voltage started at 1.233 and is stable at 1.221.  Very interesting; I do take note that the voltage seems to be dropping as if the battery, charged in this way, is acting like a bleeding capacitor.  It will be checked tomorrow again.

I was thinking that making a bi-symmetrical model ( two joule thief circuits opposing one another where the source for one is the charged for the other - which is the source for the other...thus a recursive circuit ).  Perhaps a DIAC is critically placed between the two and might replace the need for a complicated switching circuit... honestly though, I think a circuit in this configuration would reach a resonance, peak, and hover around the batteries max voltage, at which point they would start producing heat ( the real indication  ;) ).

I have not made the bi-symmetrical circuit yet.



Also, I tested the battery mentioned above after 16 hours at rest and it's dropped to 1.097V..  0.109v gain, and on the charger battery, a 0.012v loss.

Edit, I should add that in this particular experiment, I only charged the battery until it's voltage surpassed the source...this time period was approximately 35 to 45 minutes at the most... far less than Gadget's experiment.

@Groundloop, thankyou for that explanation.

I have reading to catch up on.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 25, 2009, 03:36:40 AM
I have not made the bi-symmetrical circuit yet.

Also, I tested the battery mentioned above after 16 hours
... 0.012v loss.


Hi jadaro,
I want to point out that you run the risk of reducing the output by an additional 0.7v when you add a second transistor.

And, did you have a light anywhere?
Like did you have a secondary with a led on it?

I am very curious about this part, because my secondary usually goes out if there is something substantial at the C-E junction..
I consider a battery substantial, so I wonder.

thank you.
I think this is very encouraging.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 25, 2009, 04:23:31 AM
Hi jadaro,
I want to point out that you run the risk of reducing the output by an additional 0.7v when you add a second transistor.

And, did you have a light anywhere?
Like did you have a secondary with a led on it?

I am very curious about this part, because my secondary usually goes out if there is something substantial at the C-E junction..
I consider a battery substantial, so I wonder.

thank you.
I think this is very encouraging.

jeanna

I'll include a picture of the setup.  There is no secondary, only the basic circuit, the only way that I know it's running is by testing the duty cycle and the frequency with my ammeter.  Which was 58.4% and 4.7kHz respectively.  Using the inductors ( similar to what you have in some of your picture ) I can vary the distance between them and alter the voltage and frequency characteristics.  At this point I'm not sure how relevant the duty cycle is ( duty cycle being how long the pulse is 'on' ).

This rather lack luster diagram shows where I placed the LED initially, however, when I hooked up the charging battery, it went out, so I removed it during the test.  I'm not surprised that it did this, the voltage rating on most light emitting diodes is 3.2v, therefore, the battery, having a lower cross terminal voltage invalidates the path as the voltage drops below this - at least, this is my understanding, perhaps a low voltage red LED would remain lit, but then in it's current position, would cause the path to the battery to invalidate, and so on...

On a different note:

There is no secondary in my circuit, using the pre-fab inductors, this is difficult and sensitive, although I have arranged them into such a way.  I'm NOT using a torroid for my tests; I believe that the circuit can be replicated with and without them given the nature of the phenomenon.

Although you are right about the flux remaining within the confines of a toroid, I believe then when OU presents itself, it will be dramatic and obvious.  This is why I alter the nature of the oscillator so that it may be duplicated through different means as to prove the theory rather than simply confirm the peculiarities of a particular setup.  ( Please note: I do not mean for the aforementioned to be inflammatory ).

This is also why I requested, in the joule thief thread, that we post the ohmic resistance of our windings, but this is just an afterthought.

Edit, I'm posting the milliamp usage of my circuit, the ohmic resistance of the coils is 3.8ohms each, with a battery being charged it uses 6.91ma, lighting a single bright white LED, it uses 7.27ma. Although the stated resistance in the picture is 1k, the path to the base from the positive terminal through the resistor is 985ohms, so the resistor is actually 981.2ohms.

Milliamp usage is actually surprisingly low.

@Jeanna, I'm aware of the voltage drops on the transistors and the diodes, I think that the oscillations easily overcome this, though they aren't to be ignore, :)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 07:27:31 AM
i have many osc designs ...  makes for keeping things stable..

great for stage 2

1 osc as many fets as you like  ;) just to properly protect them is important

ist

then you can low volts many amp  ;)  go 60 hz lol with the right coil and you get ac ...

NO INVERTOR .. :o 8)

are there anybody out there that want the real deal ?

i could make it like 1000 ways  eyes closed ..  ;D

w

i was gonna draw a picture of this but i cant find a paper .. errrrrrrr

as everyone wants me to post a schem ..  this will be the first .. i hate to draw on the computer takes way too long ... 

but its simple  i will draw yo many schems if you MUST HAVE THEM! from ME!

how many do you want ...

this unit is called ist PULSED HOT DC TO AC CONVERTOR...   its simple  ..  fire 60 hz dc .. 1 pulse coil  2.6vdc  108 amp  secondary on a toroide core  or pickups as many as you desire...   could be made split mk style ..  or single  eather way AC IS ATAINED!

thank you

HURRY UP AND AWARD THE PRIZE MONEY!   i need to buy cores ... SO I CAN TEACH ON YOUR SITE

STEPHAN ...

ITS LONG AGO PROVEN ....  ;D ;)

OOPS DID I JUST OSBOLETTE ALL KNOWEN DIGITAL INVERTORS ... AND MINE WILL RUN FROM AN AA  JUST GOT TO DROP RECHARGE TIME ON THE CAP   

then get the snake chaseing its tail ... simple kids play

finally thursday i will have the money for the shipping ...  but i still only have the 1 large core ...

i could use 100 of em ...  i have many designs .. 
i will display all my work public in this thred ...

@STEPHAN

if you buy the parts ill build you A BIG  UNIT ..  that you can keep...  you may like to do that .... as were writeing history here ... as usual....  ;) on many levels  :D

HOLY SH!FT!   8) 8) 8) 8)  YOUK NOW WHAT IM JUST PLAIN STUPID!   :o HA! I NEED ONLY 1 BIG CAP ...   000000OOOOOooooo LOL  now there getting cheep to build a PORTABLE AC 11O VOLT MANY AMP  UNIT POWERED  FROM AN AA ....THAT USES 5/1000TH OF A VOLT  ;) :P ::) ::) ::) ::)

NOW  pony what do you think ... 

i dont want to see you picking on my SIS!!  or we will put you back in the barn!!!  ;) :D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 09:09:36 AM
PONY!!!

YOU JUST WATE TILL I ADD NEO ZAP TO THE OUT PUT OF MY 680VAC JT ...  :P

THEN CHARGE THE CAP LMAO

TELL ME DO YOU WANT TO SEE 875 AMP CONSTANT?   DRAW FROM 1 OF THOSE BIG ULTRA CAPS FROM AN AA BATTERY DRAWING 20 MA?  LMAO!

YOUR 1 FOOL IF YOU THINK I CANT DO THIS LOL!

w814
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 25, 2009, 03:00:25 PM
IST, what are the exact ingredients you need and how much do they cost each and in total.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 25, 2009, 03:19:56 PM
@jarado
    hi . My point on the jt was to show that a NORMAL jt can Charge an ultraboostcap to over unity . Now you dont Have to use my circuit to charge one . My output on the standard JT after one diode @THE cCE JUNCTION is 14 volts @ 5.6ma . this can be made 100% better using bigger toroids better transistors and better tuning . I have not even had the interest to unpack my 200mzh digital storage scope because I'm too busy experimenting . I could care less you know what the "theory is . My point in saying OU . is the fact that we can start with a small AA battery and  Store very large amounts of energy that can be released SSSllloooooly Unlike a regular capacitor that just throw all its energy out in a second . i have run JTs and light for weeks off a charge  boostcap you cant do that with an electrolytic cap. how can anyone disagree that anY amount of power above the initial power source is NOT OU ? the cop number speak for them selveS even in small short test . this is the easiest self runner ever thought of . and the beauty is  its not critical for the basic circuit . I have done several times over now on another duplicate that When the Boostcap reaches above the voltage of the AA battery i use i can simply hit the aa battery and instantly it is charged way beyond its starting voltage will just a very small loss in the bcap SOO. what does this tell an experimenter . It say . an easy self runner with a circuit to control this . this is our next experiment with the OU control Board .Soon you can have free light that wont dissipate .Imagine running my Extreamly low powered JT drawing only 0.90 ma and lighting many ledS (4 on mine) and still have all the secondary pick ups doing other things and lighting lights all this time too .

@IST  PM me Please.

@all if anyone is interested my experiment with the old nicad is still running but pointless now because the new number i took this morning is over the unity of the start  so here it is 8:11am     run 1.276  bcap   1.461  if you refer back to the crokked graphing  the start voltages were run 1.459 charge .554

Gadget

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 25, 2009, 03:52:36 PM
your Welcome  BUT  as said in previous post there is MUCH room for improvemenst to this OU effect and As a condition i asked Stephan   and in all fairness  I discovered it and build it first and its My concepts therefor No prize entrant or entries shall  use My concept  to enter for the prize including using an ultracapacitor or a joule thief as per MY concept . Simply put you can enter using any charging Method with an ultracap as the output source nor use the circiut ground loop had designed and i am ironing out . You can however replicate improve  the design for the benifit  for all but no entery for prize .
Its ou . a simple test for you non believers . If you HAVE a "SUPERCAP" take a charged aa battery @2500ma and charge the at cap up to full capacity . You will not be able to this and your aa battery will depleat very fast trying to do it . Again I charge  Over the unity of My Run Battery  1.4 volts to a BCap with over 2.5-2.6 volts with virtually no loss from the source at all .at the very worst  using a different battery a 10th of a volt drop ., In my case it was  only the last number  5/1000th loss and a full bcap with Energy far beyond . you can actually make the source AA battery explode from the power gained  in teh bcap .!!this is the concept on the Circuit board  we are building to charge the aa battery up to a set voltage either back to unity or over the initial start volts . . And this only takes a second or to to do this . as i stated its like charging an aa battery with a100 amp battery charger . you can only hold it on that for afew seconds before the battery gets hot and eventually Explodes .. i got guy. Als o i did nbot start the repete Experiment 1 last night because i am waiting for an aa battery to Fully charge (18 hours) before i begin the redo over . I am how ever repeating experiment one on a copy of the circuit using an old nickle cadnium battery about 7 years old . here are the results of this so far. remamber this is an old cadinium battery not Ni-mh new one . this one i have had to pop with a12 volt charger several time thruu the last few years to unshort it . i believe its 750 mah a generic GREEN one no markings

circuit exactly as the first one ::with arun battery charged as high as i could get it  the start voltage  and charge voltage is as follows . Also the Current draw for the Transistor is set to 12.90ma at the start of charging an ultracap 650f . also the start volts of the Upcap Is .544 the normal resting voltage of the Ultracapacitor

  Time           RUN                CHARGE

 6:45 pm        1.495              .544
 6:50 pm         1.438              .550
 10:50pm         1.358              .605
 11:10pm         1.344               .803
 12:20am          1.334              .846
  6:05 am          1.310              1.000
  9:18am           1.304               1.048
  9.59             1.303                 1.058
11:08              1.300                 1.076
Gadget

Hi,

I just looked at your posts going back 6 months, and do not see any data logging to support your claim of your AA battery only draining by microvolts after charging your supercap. You can post that data?

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 25, 2009, 04:18:41 PM
Hi,

I just looked at your posts going back 6 months, and do not see any data logging to support your claim of your AA battery only draining by microvolts after charging your supercap. You can post that data?

Thanks,
Paul
typo . here is my log . start was 1.459 . i some how had the original test in my mind and 50 pms ,3 test going on and me trying to type is not a good combination . i dont type so good anymore after the stroke  . sorry   ::) here is a pic of my log for the NICAD
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 25, 2009, 04:24:22 PM
@paul . their are no claims for the above other than the bcap is over the unity of the run battery . if you care you calculate the total loss on this old battery please . its like 2 tenths and something ?This is not the  the first Experiment i did that used a nimh battery that had 5/1000th of a drop and charged the bcap to 2.6 .. you didn't have to go back but to page 996 on JT thread  ??? discovery started there . and also this nicad experiment was just for the fun of it to see if an old battery that was unshorted several time with a blast from 12v would do anything with this projects .Answer :yea. and so to make this simple circuit self run its a matter of a simple push button to connect the Bcat + to the nicad + and monitor the AA battery until its back or higher than it started and the process can start over . done this on another one .you dont need the Ou circuit controller board to see this there is plenty of power left in  the bcap after you do this . even if its not up to its rated amperage  i can easily blow a 20amp fuse trying to measure it with my fluke charged to even 1 volt .i cannot do that with the aa battey.
so dont try that a home folks unless you got lots of fuses !
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 25, 2009, 04:48:46 PM
Hi gadget,

Today I'll try to build a JT in the lab and see how well it charges various rechargeable batteries, but my bcap has not arrived yet. No idea when.

Anyhow, here's your quote I was referring to,

Quote from Gadget, "I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charged an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery ."

I was unable to find any of your data logging that shows the AA battery dropping a few microvolts.

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 25, 2009, 05:19:20 PM
Hi gadget,

Today I'll try to build a JT in the lab and see how well it charges various rechargeable batteries, but my bcap has not arrived yet. No idea when.

Anyhow, here's your quote I was referring to,

Quote from Gadget, "I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charged an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery ."

I was unable to find any of your data logging that shows the AA battery dropping a few microvolts.

Paul
ok i did not log it on paper as it was Experiment 1 and if you read all my post starting  on 996 to somewhere aroung 1003 you can write the numer down if you wish . I sopped posting and started building whnt the last number were over 2.400 ove the bcap . results after i stopped the test hours later and let it fill the cap were 1.490 from the start of the nimh battery test which was 1.495 in the beginning and the bcap start was .521 and i ended it a 2.601 . this is what i asked for replicators  but i didn't get any until recently proving this . I won't post anymore results as a group of us are doing our think in private now and i leave it up to everyone to make there  own and prove to themselves . i sadi all i am going to say . I may show My completed Stephan unit but thast it . Also the unit will certainty will show a selfrunning light at the very least  . whether it pulls it from the bcap or not its the first OU toy every made that is public and usefull. Build one and you will at the very least had a self runner . the final circuit may or may not be publicly displayed . COnstant revision are being do oon the Pro Ou controller . you guys have all you need to make it even if you don't use a controller .

Al
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 25, 2009, 05:25:57 PM
Gadget, attached is a simple line chart for the data you just post. I'm just confused whether the run source is a battery or bcap. If you inform me on that I can change the title of the chart.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 25, 2009, 05:36:06 PM
Albert, a Gadgetmall only thread would be nice. Would you like to start the thread?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 05:39:06 PM
nice chart!

maybe it could be called starter can test ? 

it is useing an aa for stage 1  stage 2  operates 1 bcap to 5 bcap

 8)

thanks for  your intrest!

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 05:52:34 PM
IST, what are the exact ingredients you need and how much do they cost each and in total.

thanks for your intrest bro!

i have already bought all i need to make the basic unit .. thing is ... i dont like to build something then take it apart to build it better ..

so ill only start on the large rings and designs .. once ..  i have more cores as well any one that cares to build it public shall be able to input to this device and help to hammer out the BEST UNIT!  ;)
   then credit where it is do ...  and i dont want all the credit... hence why gadget did his tests ..  :)

william

i thought i would put this on stephan .. as the adds .. do add to the cause on this site .. it has been found! 

a simpler answer will not come to surface...  8)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 25, 2009, 05:52:37 PM
Gadget, attached is a simple line chart for the data you just post. I'm just confused whether the run source is a battery or bcap. If you inform me on that I can change the title of the chart.
you have it correct . THANK YOU !! fantastic work . Its the old Nicad as the source/run .. Very nice work! . your In .

Gadget


No Paul . i don't care to as i said all the information is here and a group are now working in private . no more information until  after Stephan gets one . of coarse others are welcome to post there designs of second stage circuit here and any information from those plus replications are Very welcome .Others have posted results  and have proved what i have said as to how this circuit can work.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 25, 2009, 06:19:56 PM
No Paul . i don't care to as i said all the information is here and a group are now working in private . no more information until  after Stephan gets one . of coarse others are welcome to post there designs of second stage circuit here and any information from those plus replications are Very welcome .Others have posted results  and have proved what i have said as to how this circuit can work.

You say that, but there's far more details required than a circuit drawing. We're talking about pulses that contain high frequency components where even the slightest difference can make a noticeable change.

If I get different results than you, then are you going to show me the necessary changes to get your results?

Paul
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 25, 2009, 06:31:03 PM
You say that, but there's far more details required than a circuit drawing. We're talking about pulses that contain high frequency components where even the slightest difference can make a noticeable change.

If I get different results than you, then are you going to show me the necessary changes to get your results?

Paul
Yes . I will point out what you did wrong.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 06:38:13 PM
besides

all the things i have come up with ...  is nothing less than a COLLECTIVE EFFORD HERE AT OVERUNITY.COM!

i simply combined alls work into a super simple unit ...   

anyone could have done this ...   

 :D

w814
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 25, 2009, 10:52:00 PM
@jarado
    hi . My point on the jt was to show that a NORMAL jt can Charge an ultraboostcap to over unity . Now you dont Have to use my circuit to charge one . My output on the standard JT after one diode @THE cCE JUNCTION is 14 volts @ 5.6ma . this can be made 100% better using bigger toroids better transistors and better tuning . I have not even had the interest to unpack my 200mzh digital storage scope because I'm too busy experimenting . I could care less you know what the "theory is . My point in saying OU . is the fact that we can start with a small AA battery and  Store very large amounts of energy that can be released SSSllloooooly Unlike a regular capacitor that just throw all its energy out in a second . i have run JTs and light for weeks off a charge  boostcap you cant do that with an electrolytic cap. how can anyone disagree that anY amount of power above the initial power source is NOT OU ? . . .

I think we're banging the same drum. :)  I believe your intention is to run the circuit with a boostcap and charge a boostcap.  ( I share this sentiment, and it will most definitely prove your point )  If this is wrong, then perhaps it's just a fleeting thought and I should be corrected.

If at all possible, with my limited resources, I have attempted to replicate the circuit without the ultracaps, and I can see that this is being dissuaded, as it seems to be the modus operandi/crux of the circuit to use one - even though you want to discharge the cap slowly.

One of the peculiarities of these particular capacitors it they bleed over time - in the specifications it is noted to bleed 1.5ma - considering the low usage of milliamps from the circuit, this can be quite 'expensive'.

MY intentions on the test are a parallel but not necessarily a complement. on a Boostcap/ultracap to Boostcap/ultracap attempt, the idea is to use two like sources to charge and discharge - which is what I've done with rechargeable batteries instead.

Due to their peculiarities as batteries they seems to have greater tolerance for voltage spikes.  This is something I worry about in high end ultracaps as voltage spikes can damage the dielectric and make them more prone to bleeding.

Despite these differences, I've shown, with minimal data that your circuit does seem to perform as stated.  On the other hand, the math discussed here is also correct with regard to how much the ultracap is capable of holding vs how much is in a battery.  Due to the convoluted nature of batteries, I've chosen to stick with them, not because they're convoluted, but because that's all that I've got. :(

In the experiment that I performed, my source battery drained 0.012v and the charged battery gained 0.109v which was indeed disproportional!  This is how I confirm the 'Theory' of it's operation.  Over a period of 45 minutes, the battery charged, reached its peak operating voltage, and then came back to rest from 1.271v to 1.091v from its initial state of 0.988v.

Please don't let the tone of my postings confuse you.  I am not against this.

I'm going to make a few comments about the circuit posted in the official entry; If any of my claims are incorrect, please make some indication.

*edit ... This may be a shorter brain fart than warranted...( this is off topic from the post, so, I removed the tail end of this post and placed it int the common joule thief thread ).
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 25, 2009, 11:53:59 PM
You say that, but there's far more details required than a circuit drawing. We're talking about pulses that contain high frequency components where even the slightest difference can make a noticeable change.
Paul

Hi Paul,
Yes. This is a good observation.
Frequency varies from set to set.
but once a set of components is matched, it doesn't vary.

As it seems to me:
Each toroid will have an optimum range of frequency
Each transistor will respond differently from another... even another with the same name.
The number of winds on the primary bifilar that make it ring will be different from toroid to toroid.
The upshot of all this is that you must tune your joule thief.

I have toroids that I buy by the 20's and they are all fine with a certain number of winds and transistor, however, certain individual transistors will perform better than others.

Therefore, when I get a matched set, I bag it before I move on to a new experiment.

This way, on a day when I feel like building something, I just need to grab the bagged set.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 12:32:56 AM
well j

look me up ...  300 years from now when there able to handle and respect ..

things like a jt powering neo zap going nano peizeo ..  :D

ill gladly help ya ..

w814

once they candle this ill teach transmitting and recieving sclar ...

or one could say Q comm

btw all are welcome to add to the real truth ...   baby steps tho ....  ;)

1000 lives has made me colder ...  but that is what teaches you what LOVE IS! :) 8)

fact....... right now the world only knows what love isint!  thats a fact!  look around you ......  :( :'(

you ignored love indoulged in hate ... hence wars .. past events and such ... basically ignored mother nature.. ..its ok its a silly you.... common human mistake that happins over and over .. and over ...  EXACTALLY HOW MY MACHINE WORKS...  ;)  a cycle that repets ...

same thing with earth ... you graduate ... and a new culture is born...  get it ..  ;) :)

you dont graduate ... it turns into an astroide belt ....  look at the remains of the past one ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 01:41:26 AM
IST .
 That big ring of yours . Look kind like this one :)
Can we say Second stage now Mk1
wonder what 11 turns on this will bring .MUhhahaha

compared to a goldmine ,jeanna light core,and the biggest freakin  core i have ever had  140mm
Yes this is a free sample i got tonight . cost 19.00 us shipping

Gadget


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 01:46:42 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

oooooo boy......

ATT.  put on your seat belt the ultra cap bus it about to aproch the speed of light ...  :D

ist!

great gadget! 

 8)

gadget since you have this i will un wind the 808 COIL...   and wind on the convertor...  i wont test and tune ... we can do that in pratical expairments ..

i will do this insted of  drawing as i got no paper ...   1 dc pulse coil ...  1 bifillar secondary = 2 output.. dc to ac..  bang at 60hz dc ... output ac  this must be back wound ...  ill do it and show ya..

 8)

this can go on right after the can ..  in a step up system ...  ic freq conversion device...  jt is running really fast stage 2 slower ...  we can even add a 3rd stage for it to remain a constant even feed.... 

stairway to heaven É  hummmmm

ra!   did you find your desert glass yet É  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 02:04:47 AM
IST:

Wow man, nice toroid...do you have a source for that you are willing to share?

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 02:11:20 AM
i beleave i set gadget up with the supplyer

and he has got the exact same one as i have tested ..

so yes i think gadget will sell them  ;D  for the company... :)

ist!

the core is 10000u W material ..  should be well suited ...  :)

i bet we pull some WWWW  waves off it  ;D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 02:27:03 AM
Bill
  Hi . this one was a free sample . they are available @mag-inc.com  part#ZW49740TC  you pay shipping UpS . enter your company name and add it to your sample cart .. shipping was$19.00 Core.    original  cost     99 each . i have to buy 158 before i get that price :(  SO get one for free !! . i am waiting for another quote for thesame core in china a division of mag inc
Specs.tested with 2 turns @ 2,104 ma     
l(uh) 300.72     AL(nh/n^2) 12082         lf(10^6) 8.56      permability 8647.39
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 02:46:33 AM
Gadget:

Thank you very much.  That is great.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 26, 2009, 02:48:23 AM
Can someone give some general optimal specs for these cores. Like material type, permeability, size and so forth. I'm going to contact some Chinese dealers and ask around.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on November 26, 2009, 02:48:41 AM
With that perm you should get some serious vvvooollltttsss !!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 02:54:40 AM
yes you do ... 

with the mk2 60  like a mini stun gun ... unrectified....  8)

ist..

pony...   

how close does what showen in pic 1 repesent this ... showen in pic 2

then consider pic 3 then comprehend 4
 ;)

the scope shot at the end is the DIRRECT RESULT OF THIS COIL RAN WITH ONLY 1 2N2222A and being intrupted.. by hand

ALL 60 OUTPUTS HAVE THE SAME ....  :D  wave..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 26, 2009, 02:56:33 AM
All,

Here is my big core. It will be used in another project but will be tested
in a JT when I'm done testing the other project. Now I have to wind some
wire onto that core. :-)

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 03:15:17 AM
All,

Here is my big core. It will be used in another project but will be tested
in a JT when I'm done testing the other project. Now I have to wind some
wire onto that core. :-)

Groundloop.
Wholy carp Alex . wow. Its My favorite color too !
Have a look at this one . i bet its got a mile of wire on it . I think Mk1 has one .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 03:18:03 AM
@ All:  (And I mean everyone)

Before I forget and it gets away from me....

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your families to all that celebrate this holiday.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 26, 2009, 03:26:12 AM
@gadget

I do have one , its has 4 coils two on each side one over the other.

The plastic coil holder is hiding a coil inside .

Mark

one big gauge one medium tow small , one side is connected to the other side coil.

Actually , its a twin series coil , one per side ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 03:35:18 AM
Thank you Bill . and same to all . Have a good Thanksgiving and eat some food with someone you care for .

@IST that third picture looks awful familiar three rings :)

is that 60 strands twisted on 60 other  twisted bundles . how in the world would tou keep up with all the end .It would take weeks to connect all those . Is that what  200 2n2222a's are for  ? and 500 rings ? good Gracious ..
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 03:48:03 AM
im gonna post the last scope shot look hard at it ....


i see a ghost being sent to work ...


no joke... 

quantum viewing from my freqin o scope  :o :o


OMG!

LOOK HARD JUST B4 THE RIGHT HAND TRANSPORT ...  8) :o :o :o :o

W

HOW FREQIN CRAZY IS THIS WORLD ............ kinda makes ya wonder.....
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 03:58:11 AM
it kind of looks like an ET . have your tuned to our planet ?
@mark can you post the advance MK 4 winding sequence .Is this the one that has the best power out so far?And i am very curious how to get those off that heavy thing . is it possible without unwinding it ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 04:02:09 AM
not yet ...

i was hopeing to make a simple power can b4 i make time machines teleportors quantum viewing and all the other nutz ideas and stumblings i come across ...

ist 

i do agree it is a kick in coil ...  that thing .... say i yi yi ...

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 26, 2009, 04:05:46 AM
Can someone give some general optimal specs for these cores. Like material type, permeability, size and so forth. I'm going to contact some Chinese dealers and ask around.
Broli,
That will be a good idea later, I think.
We went around a while back because MK1 did some research and found we need low permeability.
I got the lowest I could find and they won't start up.
Then Hazens got one with known permeability and it was called low and it was something over 1k maybe even 7k, but that is buried now.

The thing is we get these things and they do not tell us the permeability.
I suppose we could back into them by knowing the rest of it likes turns resistance of wire diameter of tube of the toroid etc, but we don't.

Xee2 found some figures and ist's manufacturer might have them.
We really should do a study with known permeabilities, but we haven't, afaik.

I wasted $35 on those high flux toroids. It would be a shame for me to let you do the same without warning.

jeanna

edit.
For now, why not get a sampling from allelectronics and/or electronic goldmine and make a  jt and then make a few with secondaries and see what you can make with them..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 26, 2009, 04:08:19 AM
@gadget

I guess you will need to unwind , those plastic holder are real nice .

But first undo the top layer so you could use all 4 coils , 2 jt 2 secondary.

I think it could do a nice meg the is just enough space for magnets and 4 coils .

I have posted my ideas on the main jt tread.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 04:16:13 AM
i had good results with that core .. 


i guess it depends on what you choose to do with it ...

i dont need supper high volt spikes  with 2 freq ..

just tonnes ....   the jt  wave is not that impressive ...

hence why it takes so loong to charge the cap

w

i think for the 60 hzdc 2.6v dc step up transformer a piece of pipe will do for a core ...

im winding it now and will post a pic of the convertor dc to ac ...  you will have to tune it to find your desired output voltage
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 26, 2009, 04:19:12 AM
@Jeanna

I still am unsure of the best permeability , for the jt , but you need big flux.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 26, 2009, 04:55:51 AM
@Jeanna

I still am unsure of the best permeability , for the jt , but you need big flux.
Hi Mark,
Yes...

I just found the source for the tor-60. The ones I got were taped to  a cardboard with magnetics name printed on it.
The toroid I used for "jeanna's light" is not in their line anymore.
I suspected that when someone said allelectronics was out forever.
Allelectronics buys overstock and remaindered stock.
Wouldn't you know?

The part I want to report is that 900u is the lowest permeability of their stocks which go up to 10ku.

This doesn't exactly narrow it down, but it does help some.
The failures I had were 60u and 120u.
Anyway, if it is a ferrite core- and it is- and it came from magnetics in AR, then the lowest permeability  is 900u.

I ordered a new toroid from allelectronics yesterday. It is half the OD of the biggo, but it is still bigger than the .86" one and that .86" one did light a 4" fluoro tube, which makes me hopeful that this newest one willlight a bigger tube.

In fact I am planning to try that one from last summer with a new transistor, because maybe the problem lies there. I just got a tip3055 and a tip31. Both have been used successfully by members here.
And Gary also just confirmed that for him the tip was way better than the 2N, so...

I will report.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 26, 2009, 05:06:26 AM
im gonna post the last scope shot look hard at it ....


i see a ghost being sent to work ...


no joke... 

quantum viewing from my freqin o scope  :o :o


OMG!

LOOK HARD JUST B4 THE RIGHT HAND TRANSPORT ...  8) :o :o :o :o

W

HOW FREQIN CRAZY IS THIS WORLD ............ kinda makes ya wonder.....

I enhanced that scope shot for you so that it is easier to see the image :)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 05:16:47 AM
i guess you dont like my coil ...

 :)

then you wont like this one .......

2.6v dc to 120vac CONVERTOR
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 26, 2009, 05:17:21 AM

In fact I am planning to try that one from last summer with a new transistor, because maybe the problem lies there. I just got a tip3055 and a tip31. Both have been used successfully by members here.
And Gary also just confirmed that for him the tip was way better than the 2N, so...

I will report.

jeanna

When I googled that transistor I stumbled upon this...

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/FluorescentInverter/FluorescentInverter.html (http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/FluorescentInverter/FluorescentInverter.html)

Look like another JT in disguise. It also includes a lengthy explanation which might help beginners like me.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on November 26, 2009, 05:38:15 AM

"  256.JPG (135.42 KB, 640x480 - viewed 13 times.) "

IST...it appears that your scope has somehow been transformed into a time machine.

It looks like you have tuned into a past broadcast of the 'Tonight Show'...you can clearly see Steve Allen's hairpiece as it sits above his ethereal head.

Regards...

 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 05:42:34 AM
broli:

That looks like a nice project.

But man, did you see he is powering it with 12 volts?  Do you know how many 48" tubes you can light with 12 volts using a JT?  A lot more than the one he is lighting that is for sure. (I can light two 48" tubes on 1.5 volts)

My guess is that the Jeanna Light circuit is much more efficient, and maybe even just as easy to make.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 05:44:06 AM
so now off of my 12 volt cap stage 2 unit i see no reason i can not plugg this ring into a 75watt 12vdc to 120vac invertor a 15$ unit put a bridge after the 120 vac so its back to 60hzdc  but 120v on the input ... and power 1000w worth of light ..  and still have ....   many amp at 12vdc ....  as it only uses 75 watt for that invertor when you use the bridge you have a 120vdc jt... transformer...  the colapse goes out with the inputted... 

all this from a power can a stage 2 unit and 1 convertor ring and you still have 12vdc 1000amp continous all the time ... 

from 5 1000th per charge cycle to start stage 2 ..... 

see where all my work goes ...  wonderland...

HIGH VOLT FROM 12VDC  500PLUS VOLTS AC  A FEW AMPS ..  12VDC SUPPLY CONVERTOR RING
ITS JUST THE KNOWOLAGE OF THE COILS AND HOW THEY INTERACT!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 05:57:56 AM
Here is how you can make cheaply yourself a few supercaps:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8360.0

They light read and yellow LEDs very nicely for a long time,
if you make them BIG !
;)

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 26, 2009, 06:07:04 AM
lol mr mag  ;D get the wabbit.
----

Yes, broli,
But if you want some help  I/we are and have been willing to give it.

Please just whenever you get started let us know if you have any problems.
It seems incomprehensible at first, I know, but that is the reason I recommend the makezine video because a video is worth 100,000 words, if you kwim.

Before this thread, I made 3 of these and I would have it all booted up and I put the pieces together and just did one step at a time then advanced the video.
I couldn't do any better myself, which is the reason I don't make a video.

And when you are ready to turn the secondary it will be the second time around, and therefore easier.
Maybe I can make a video for that??

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 06:13:28 AM
Here is how you can make cheaply yourself a few supercaps:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8360.0

They light read and yellow LEDs very nicely for a long time,
if you make them BIG !
;)

Regards, Stefan.
Allright . Thank you for that information. This could one day become useful is they stop selling these high power Bcaps .Hey i'll try this and make one the size of a 5 gallon bucket with a half inch carbon rod for the electrode/ 20,000 farads maybe ? probably not .still a nice project for a winters day.

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 06:33:07 AM
Hi Albert, as we don´t need big currents to power LEDs,
just spare your money and just only use small pencil electrode connections.
Big sized diameter graphite rods are pretty expensive.

You better need to make yourself much more conductive graphite powder
from coal briquets, which my girlfriend found out accidently..

See here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=790

Then if you made a few supercaps this way, better put them all in series to raise the
voltage and then put a few LEDs in series also as the load, so this will last much longer this way,
as the lower the discharge current is that you draw from the supercaps, the bigger the capacity will
be and the longer they will last and keep their charge...
So better put many in series and use only low discharge currents.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 06:39:21 AM
P.S. If you put 10 supercaps in series, which are each fully charged at around 2,5 Volts each,
you already have 25 Volts output voltage.

If you then draw only 20 milliamps and use a load of 8 to 10 white LEDs in series,
which have a threshold voltage also of around 2.5 Volts, this
will last very long to light them up.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 06:44:08 AM
P.S. If you put 10 supercaps in series, which are each fully charged at around 2,5 Volts each,
you already have 25 Volts output voltage.

If you then draw only 20 milliamps and use a load of 8 to 10 white LEDs in series,
which have a threshold voltage also of around 2.5 Volts, this
will last very long to light them up.

This is true Stefan, but I would assume for the OU test, the capacitors will not be starting fully charged. If this was indeed allowed, anyone could win the prize just by using a large enough fully-charged capacitor powering a resistor which is dissipating 1W for 3 months.

Then again, maybe you weren't alluding to the OU prize and were just commenting.

.99
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 06:54:11 AM
Well, no my last 2 comments were only made how to
best build yourself a few supercaps and power a few LED lights in series,
if you have for instance charged up the series supercaps stack with a solar
panel during the day and use the LED light during the night for independant
grid free light output.

Regarding using supercaps here in the Joule thief, if would also be beneficial
to use more than 1 supercap all put in series, so the JT can charge them up
to higher voltages and higher voltage means also more output power at
the same small load output current.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 06:54:51 AM
Hi Albert, as we don´t need big currents to power LEDs,
just spare your money and just only use small pencil electrode connections.
Big sized diameter graphite rods are pretty expensive.

You better need to make yourself much more conductive graphite powder
from coal briquets, which my girlfriend found out accidently..

See here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=790

Then if you made a few supercaps this way, better put them all in series to raise the
voltage and then put a few LEDs in series also as the load, so this will last much longer this way,
as the lower the discharge current is that you draw from the supercaps, the bigger the capacity will
be and the longer they will last and keep their charge...
So better put many in series and use only low discharge currents.

Hope this helps.
Hi Stephan No i can get them very cheap actually directly from the manufacture .  . i have many already for earth batteries . pencils are expensive here :) but i will try it ! also i could substitute paper towels for maybe shamwows. i have acces to barrels of graphite ,carbonize filter  products  and powder chromium  .thank you .
Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 07:04:22 AM
Well, normal supercaps have a limit charge voltage of around 2.7 Volts.
You should not charge them up higher, as they could then go boom.  ;D

With the alufoil-graphite supercaps, you could go still about 0.7 Volts higher,
as the galvanic dissimular metal effect adds 0.7 Volts,
but I would recommend not to charge them up over 2.5 Volts, so the
alufoil will not get destroyed.

Maybe we will still also find a better electrolyte than NaCl saltwater solution.
The solution should also be not too concentrated, otherwise the alufoil
will decompose after a while.

Also it could be much easier to use graphite paper as the graphite
layer, so just use an acryl binder with water to put the graphite powder into
a solid flat paper like shape and already put the pencil graphite rod
into it before drying, so the pencil graphite rod electrical electrode connector
will already be "glued" this
way into the "graphite paper" and must not be fixed later.

But you must roll up then the stack already before the acrylic binder
has dried, otherwise it will be hard to roll the stiff graphite paper later
after it has dried up...

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 07:33:24 AM
Well, normal supercaps have a limit charge voltage of around 2.7 Volts.
You should not charge them up higher, as they could then go boom.  ;D

With the alufoil-graphite supercaps, you could go still about 0.7 Volts higher,
as the galvanic dissimular metal effect adds 0.7 Volts,
but I would recommend not to charge them up over 2.5 Volts, so the
alufoil will not get destroyed.

Maybe we will still also find a better electrolyte than NaCl saltwater solution.
The solution should also be not too concentrated, otherwise the alufoil
will decompose after a while.

Also it could be much easier to use graphite paper as the graphite
layer, so just use an acryl binder with water to put the graphite powder into
a solid flat paper like shape and already put the pencil graphite rod
into it before drying, so the pencil graphite rod electrical electrode connector
will already be "glued" this
way into the "graphite paper" and must not be fixed later.

But you must roll up then the stack already before the acrylic binder
has dried, otherwise it will be hard to roll the stiff graphite paper later
after it has dried up...

Hope this helps.
yes actually it did give me an idea . Might work might not . I have rolls of aluminum flashing to use and some brown paper bags and bake it in an oven  a graphite mixture on it . Well we will see . mixture is another thing  i can research . there are a few milliliters of highly posionious substance  in My ultralcap i did forget the name in a maxwell ultracap as the electrolyte so maybe there is a substitute for NaCl saltwater .
Have a good day or night  its 1:39 am here .
Also if you celebrate Thanksgiving in Germany . Happy thanks Giving

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 08:09:54 AM
Stefan:

This sounds like a nice  project.  With all of the smart and inventive minds here there is no telling how far this could be taken.  I look forward to seeing some results over on your topic.  Thanks for telling us this.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 04:01:00 PM
some day ... 

we gonnna rize up on that wind...

1 day we gonna dance with the lions... ;)

some day we gonna break free...  ya ...  someday!
 
 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiX254QxF3I

warning !!  as hear.. this POWER CAN... has the potencial to go boom.. ... ;D right around the plannet in a big hurry ...  ;)

and i aint talking just blowing the plugg...  ;D ;D ;D ;D :D

w

ya someday...  ::)

3rd last pic for bill! 8)

the last puzzel peice!  ;) 4suns
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 05:37:48 PM
THE GOLD RING AND THE POWER OF WILL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ri0gefjZU8

PEACE LOVE LIFE!

W

UNITY...  FIND IT!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 26, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
This is true Stefan, but I would assume for the OU test, the capacitors will not be starting fully charged. If this was indeed allowed, anyone could win the prize just by using a large enough fully-charged capacitor powering a resistor which is dissipating 1W for 3 months.

Then again, maybe you weren't alluding to the OU prize and were just commenting.

.99
As a Condition i asked Stephan before entering the prize that NO ONE ELSE CAN ENTER THE CONTEST USING MY CONCEPT .THEREFOR . no need to worry about others getting Ou prize with my concepts .you all are great minds , i am an inventor and experimenter and builder  of electronic devices . I have a college education  and long life experiences but i had a brain stroke years ago and my math and past is gone now . Please carry on with testing my concept and see that the bcap can hold more energy than an aa battery . this is not normal . If My bcap can hold more Energy than an aa battery then you see its a self runner at the VERY LEAST !! . Not one person has SHown a simple way to do this .
Have a Great Thanksgiving   all

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 05:57:25 PM
As a Condition i asked Stephan before entering the prize that NO ONE ELSE CAN ENTER THE CONTEST USING MY CONCEPT .THEREFOR . no need to worry about others getting Ou prize with my concepts .you all are great minds , i am an inventor and experimenter and builder  of electronic devices . I have a college education  and long life experiences but i had a brain stroke years ago and my math and past is gone now . Please carry on with testing my concept and see that the bcap can hold more energy than an aa battery . this is not normal . If My bcap can hold more Energy than an aa battery then you see its a self runner at the VERY LEAST !! . Not one person has SHown a simple way to do this .
Have a Great Thanksgiving  Dr,Stiffler and all

Gadget

this is yours... a gift ...   be sure to respect it! 

that goes for everyone !

 :)

william and everyone who made this possible!



http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://new.rejesus.co.uk/images/area_uploads/zodiac_statue.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rejesus.co.uk/site/module/zodiac_christ/&usg=__aAxTKjYsWI1lSxEEwDSit-90s6g=&h=435&w=450&sz=52&hl=en&start=309&sig2=_4Nwzm1czWPobh6QtraiuQ&itbs=1&tbnid=77WA2BtF7FeZfM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dzodiac%2Bfire%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D306&ei=78EOS57OHZPL8Qbok42RBA
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 07:06:12 PM
just incase you doubt it ... 

i have it written in stone ...

 ;)

!

come on now ....  i never had the handle ist 4 nuttin lol ...  ;)

and i dont operate a team called isteam...  it is now called His team   ;)

and the teams job ...  learn the truth!  :)

no angle born in hell ... could break that satins spell...  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 08:31:28 PM
you see with the engery belt ....

your thoughts ripple in and mine

radiate out ..  ;)

HAPPY T DAY TO ALL

PEACE!

ENJOY YOUR DAY!

w815 77     PS IM FINALLY ME AGIN ....   IMAGINE ...  it was a trip .. to say the least ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 09:23:30 PM
IST:

Thanks for that picture. 

Have a great day.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 27, 2009, 03:15:14 AM
i hope most understand ...   what i hold in my HAND...  ;)

that a is a magnet triggered eather pump...  0 imputted engery...  just the swipe of the magnet ...

it needs to be imporved ..

concept is sound  ;)

long ago proven  ;D

william       
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on November 28, 2009, 12:05:34 AM
@all
ist made one watch http://www.youtube.com/user/innovationstation#p/u/22/Jiodkjo9hpk


I hope this will help !

First thing tuning, on step one the green coil is put on tight leaving room so that two other coil (for the jt)can be added 180 degrees
apart, the green coil needs to be connected to a diode bridge to get voltage readings .

On step 2 , you start adding jt coils one at a time and check voltmeter every time you put more turns , that way you see the difference it makes continue adding turns until the voltage on the voltmeter start going lower, this will mean you have reached the point where you start messing up with the turn ratio , meaning you add more you get lower voltage.

On more step i do is every time i change the jt numbers of turn i also tune the base resistor , usually a pot of 1k is used, you try to get the highest voltage on the voltmeter . i also keep the voltage data and the resistance at the base by checking the resistance used by the pot in the circuit.

At this point you will know that you have the right number of turns on the jt coil, and the green coil number of turns fitting in the toroid,.

At that point based on results decide to use smaller gauge the get more turns and higher voltage .

You will also have a good idea on the toroid working range.

To make a good design , you need to learn about the toroid first at this point you should have a good idea about doing so.


Step 3 , Start putting pickup coil on the toroid, you need to put the coil on both sides going one way and leave wire to come back over the coil the other way on step 4.Making a cross windings.

If you want more pickup coil , you need to put them all at the same time , so make sure to remember the green coil for the room available  .

Lets say 20 turns fit , then on a mk1 you should have about 20 up then 16 down , mk2 having 2 pickup coils on each side numbers would be 10 up 6 down , you get the idea.

When you need more then 3 pickup coil , twist all those wire into a single one then do it all at once.

Now why the cross windings , you will then have the coil pushing and pulling , you can test it with a led that will now light both ways , it also helpful in charging caps.

I hope did not forget to much, i would really make a video but , i really don't have any money to buy a camera
, and none of my friends have one, but honestly most of my time and energy is on putting food in my stomach.

Mark

How to test dead spots use a single turn pickup coil , then connect it to a bridge and voltmeter and move it around the empty space left on the toroid , if you find a spot where there is no voltage that is a dead spot.

What could i have new to say ?

Nut much , but if i was to try this i would first try to find the best gauge for the jt side (bigger wire ) then try the match them gram for gram , since they will have the same mass and materiel they will share resonance at any freq.

The smaller you go on the secondary side , bigger resistance higher turn ratio for mass , same mass smaller gauge .

I think this will make sure that the current is not lost due to unmatched weight ...

Depending on the winding direction you get different sine wave .

Winding rotation direction , can help setting kick generation (+or-), when working with multiple core.

I hope this will help

Mark
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 28, 2009, 01:43:03 AM
All,

I'm sorry to report that the self run board does not work as planned.

Today I did build and test the board. The SCR does switch on at approx.
1,6 volt but they do not switch off again. So when the battery feed back
scr switch on then the current available is big enough to keep the scr on.

Another problem is the forward current Germanium diode. This diode is
direct in line with the input AA battery via the coil. So when the discharge to
load SCR switch on then there is a DC current through that diode and to
the output load that keep the SCR on all the time.

I also tried to use a separate winding on the toroid. But the output from the JT
was above the 8mA SCR switch off current, so the discharge SCR just stayed on.

My conclusion is that this circuit does not work with the JT circuit at all.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 04:34:38 AM
i found my speck test sheet that came with those w core 140 mm toroides .. i have pictured ..

it says 5 turns ..

this it the # from the test sheet 

ZW49740TC

PERMEABILITY SAYS MEAN MESUREMENT  OVER 10 TESTS   8546.23

FREQ MIN AND MAX

8276.1        15369.9    :D

and the weird thing at the bottom of the sheet last part ... 

says ..   special costumer specifications supersede standard procedures..   odd..  i just noticed that ..

 ;) ;D

ist!

i also found the speck sheet for the SPECIAL RECTIFIERS..
PART #STTH200L06TV
TURBO 2 ULTRAFAST HIGH VOLTAGE RECTIFIER..
FETURES AND BENIFETS ..
ultra fast switching..
low reverse current
low thermal resistance..

this is 600v 220a  it is the same unit magnacoaster is useing or was ..  i by fluke was in the shop .. and his order was there ..  so they sold me 1 lol  :D 8)

i was told  all thease are counted ..  8)  aperntly they know where these are sent they are  special units ..  ;)

btw i think this core was selected to comply within the fcc guide lines... i found it to scream well from a aa .. any where from 1.2k to 1.5k  must be a harmonic...  of the core  there is much room for play there so that is a good thing!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on November 28, 2009, 05:03:32 AM
Wow ist,
That is a really big variation!

thanks,

j
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: hartiberlin on November 28, 2009, 05:27:31 AM
@Groundloop,
why do you use at all SCRs ?

SCRs are only mostly good in AC systems for e.g. dimmer circuits,
where the current goes to zero, when the AC waveforms goes through
the zero volt region.

Better use cheap MOSFETs like IRF 840 or something simular for switching
on an off the current.
There are some MOSFETs which have a very low RDon resistance.

Hope this helps.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 05:42:31 AM
i do have a mosfet circut or 20 lol

but this then requires a timmer or a freq genny .. 

this is fine to drive my convertor that takes the b cap to 120vac a few amps ...  :D

cuz we need 60hz banging.. or if a freq genny is used .. then you can set it what ever ac hz you want depending on the core  of course...

ist

this unit is fully showen public.. too .. even with the portection and recovery .. lol

many never saw it ...  ooo  well

  i think i even posted some where i even had my wires smokeing big time .. and glowing ...  all from a kick in the presents of a magnet feild and an electromagnetic feild ..   8)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 28, 2009, 09:11:16 AM
Stefan,

I used SCR because the low trigger voltage and current needed to switch
them on. The very low voltages in this circuit demands components that
can work at this low level voltages. I will find a solution.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mannix on November 28, 2009, 10:19:46 AM
Use a relay and op amp.Just as a test
Do not worry about the other supply current for switching the relay.
 
Most people will forgive you for that ..at this stage

Introducing other components to the supplies is asking for other effects any way.

THis is the only circuit that i have ever made that runs on .3 of a volt, interesting the way it reacts to slight change in the local magnetic field also.Lots of learning here
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 03:39:46 PM
welcom mannix..!

happy you have had intresting results!  :)

i did do the 814 toroide ..  this is in my opinion a special unit.. 

they DO NOT GET HOT .. even run at a retarted speed!

now 2 of thease .. is important ..  thease operate a wee bit diffrently ... however results .. are based same as jt ..

those coils can deliver a bit of power ..  THIS IS WHERE ALMOST ALL FAILED IN THE PAST!

a lot of inventors that have things they dont understand .. and can not control it .. they have common problems like HEAT!    or they blow things up ...  i have over come all thease problems ..

1 the heat problem is because your banging too fast for the core material ..  why i chose ferroite

if a jt works at 1v and and 1 ma   and you can lite a few leds .. 

DO YOU NOT THINK IT WILL WORK  1 v 100a ;D :o  hummmmmmm

and if it does ....  :D   what is the point of amplification factor ...  :o

looks to me we will have increased from 1 ma 1 millionth of a amp .. to 1 amp  THAT TO ME LOOKS LIKE 1 MILLION TIMES THE INPUT ..  AND NOW 100 AMPS .. IS 100 MILLION TIMES THE INPUT ..

what do you think your .. out put might be .. 

this is long ago proven to be true..  8)

ist! 

humans are silly ...  this is stupid simple ....    ::)

anyhow   i have arc reactor designs ...  that i bet i can pull many kw from ...  ;)

yes that is mounted to a PLASTIC RING useing plastic screws...
do not build this ... it produces X RA

aswell carbon is only good for the cold side ...  the hot side it burns up .. to NUTTIN....
a special high temp verry conductive metal is required then it MUST BE CONTAINED .. somehow..

left it alone ... i got better ways .. safer to the same ..  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: powercat on November 28, 2009, 04:03:57 PM
Stefan,

I used SCR because the low trigger voltage and current needed to switch
them on. The very low voltages in this circuit demands components that
can work at this low level voltages. I will find a solution.

Alex.

Hi Alex,
Here is a site you might find useful, they have many different types of switching circuits, and it's all open source with clear schematics.
There is also a way of working with these guys to develop the circuit with your requirements,
this is a very big site and hopefully will have what you need.
http://www.delabs-circuits.com/index.html

cat
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 05:08:40 PM
i add

if you wonder why i have not said any more bout my SUN CIRCLES...

it is because there is a TREMENDOUS intrest in them .....   ::)

and i really need to get something into production..

wow

i can say is this universe is far more than any will currently beleave ...

w

from the info i was given and the maps that were drawen ..  there many hidden planets ..  humans do not see.. 

prymids on many ..  as well as a ball  i here there is a hotel that is a temp  shuffel place ...  ;)

huge things are happining out there .. it is best you wake up ..  im almost 100 percent sure the TESLA SHEILD  INDUCES WAKE UP ...  8) :o
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 28, 2009, 06:10:24 PM
Deleted by user.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 28, 2009, 06:29:51 PM
All,

I need a peer-review on this circuit.

Improvements, why it will work, why it won't work etc.

Alex.
Alex the Secondary is OPTIONAL and will not charge the Bcap as a Normal JT . Charge come from the C E junction .

Al
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 06:35:00 PM
for only those that this draws an intrest to ...

i have a message to deliver and a star map ..

 :o

first off this .. is new..  and ill tell you all noone has access to info as such ..  ;)

the events unfolding in the time to come .. will shock you .. im not talking of my inventions and such things....  ::)  that is OLD NEWS..  hence why most of the older crowd are well aware ...  :)

any how  there is a hot planet and a freeze one  im male from freeze and male from hot .. i have rejoined and become ballanced .. there 20 of us ..  the superviser ship is NOW at the FREEZE plannet being repaired .. and ready for round 2 ..  they HAD TO REPAIR IT WITH CRYSTAL..... imagine...

the super vizer is soon scheulded to return to THE RAINBOW CRYSTAL STAR SHIP!   mars is mentioned earth is mentioned the sun is mentiones  the vaccume hole is mentioned ..

you will not beleave ..  any how after repair it is COLLECTING... you will not understand this .. unless your a LIGHTWORKER..   ;)

peace ..

it was said i should post a picture of the map ...
lets just say i will have updates.. as time passes

w814

FIRST DELIVERY WAS FRIDAY ..
next is monday..

10  are brought .. per trip   3 from  sun  3 from freeze 4 from my plannet ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 07:19:48 PM
i posted this here as the FIRST TRIP ...  was some of the ones i work with ...  ;)

anyhow ..

i dont force this on you .. 

lol

you get to live it !  ;D :o :o :o :o

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 28, 2009, 08:10:20 PM
if you dont beleave me that is your choise .. no worries here ... lol

when a 5 and 7 year old deliver this info to yourself..  with the darn explanation i can not argue ...

maybe then you will beleave ....

thank you !

w  this is post #4014 ..... hummmmmm   think that means anything ......  :D 40 14's hummmm

now i can understand how you dont understand as i dont understand yet ..  im aperntly half and half ... so i have been told..... :)

just cuz i dont understand something does not make me close a eye to it ...  if this was the case ...  i guess i would not be a resercher .. 

ill tell ya humans never built the cosmos..  because you would already understand what im teaching ....  lol  ::)

WAKE UP  :o 8)  looks at   69 .....  dont they look like a pair of spirals ..  3  perhaps the 3 feilds produced..   and would it not make sence there 2 pair ...   to a BALLANCED GYROSCOPIC SUBATOMIC PARTICLE ..   kinda like ...   cold + cold - 0  hot + hot - THAT MEANS MIN 6 FEILDS 3 IN OPPSISITE DIRRECTIONS .. and when they smak perhaps an interferience pattern  apears ..

008 = quick sand plannet there many ..... be wize...    mars is showen in the map ... as is earth   

x reps quick sand!

in the star map hand drawn ...  mars is the planet with the 1 in it ...   just look all will spell it out plain as day ...  ;)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 28, 2009, 11:58:08 PM
STEPHEN PUT PONY IN CHARGE OF THIS THREAD . i AM DELETING MY ACCOUNT AND WILL NEVER RETURN . BILL IS GONE i CAN WORK ELSE WHERE .
 ALEX KEEP IN TOUCH . WE WILL PATENT THIS AND SUE ANYONE WHO ATTEMPTS TO STEAL IT .

BYE

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 29, 2009, 03:08:03 AM
All,

I'm sorry to report that the self run board does not work as planned.

Today I did build and test the board. The SCR does switch on at approx.
1,6 volt but they do not switch off again. So when the battery feed back
scr switch on then the current available is big enough to keep the scr on.

Another problem is the forward current Germanium diode. This diode is
direct in line with the input AA battery via the coil. So when the discharge to
load SCR switch on then there is a DC current through that diode and to
the output load that keep the SCR on all the time.

I also tried to use a separate winding on the toroid. But the output from the JT
was above the 8mA SCR switch off current, so the discharge SCR just stayed on.

My conclusion is that this circuit does not work with the JT circuit at all.

Alex.

Alex,

Don't give up yet. I think your on the right path. Sorry to take so long to post this suggestions but........
And it also looks like a lot of unnecessary crap is also going on. I hope things get back to normal soon.
Anyways, would it be possible to incorporate some type of timing circuit with the SCR so that when it turns on, the timer would shut it off after so many seconds. Then, if the battery was still below the threshold it would just turn back on again.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 29, 2009, 03:25:32 AM
@MrMag,

Thank you for taking time to help me with this circuit.

Yes, I have also been thinking and have designed a new circuit. In this circuit I use a 5 volt
relay. The relay will turn on when the (two series) bcaps reach 5,1 volt. The zener will open
at 5,1 volt and trigger the SCR. The SCR will switch the double relay. The relay will stay
switched until the voltage over the bcaps has fallen blow the relay holding current. Then the
relay will switch back again. The result will be that the bcaps is discharged into the load
through the hexfet transistor. At the same time another zener will be connected to the bcaps
and back to the AA input battery. This will top up the battery. That is the plan. I have
started to build this circuit.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on November 29, 2009, 03:30:26 AM
Alex,

I really hope it works!!! Please keep us informed.

It's too bad that things need to get so complicated just to do what seems a simple thing.

Tim
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 29, 2009, 03:40:54 AM
Hi Tim,

Yes, but I have tried to avoid using 555 or other current hungry components.
This circuit will not use any power from the bcaps until the relay switches on.
The relay itself uses very little power, only 140mW. I also hope this circuit will
work as planned.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on November 29, 2009, 03:54:07 AM
Hi Tim,

Yes, but I have tried to avoid using 555 or other current hungry components.
This circuit will not use any power from the bcaps until the relay switches on.
The relay itself uses very little power, only 140mW. I also hope this circuit will
work as planned.

Alex.

Have you looked into this component:

http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LMC555.html#Overview

Apparently it's exactly the same as a 555 except that it consumes very little power compared to it.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 29, 2009, 03:58:46 AM
Hi Tim,

Yes, but I have tried to avoid using 555 or other current hungry components.
This circuit will not use any power from the bcaps until the relay switches on.
The relay itself uses very little power, only 140mW. I also hope this circuit will
work as planned.

Alex.

I agree, the 555 is hungry.  Though they make power efficient models, they are extremely small!  Pictured on an inch scale, numbered divisions 1/10th of an inch.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: turbo on November 29, 2009, 11:32:14 AM
555's use alot of power to charge up the timer cap, and then it just discharges that cap to ground!
It's wasted energy and that i why i never use them in FE circuits.

It's also possible to use a Crystal driven Nanowatt PIC microchip and adjust the frequency through pressing up/down buttons or by simply changing the code,and offcource by (voltage) sensors so it switches when it senses the cap is full.  :)

It's very easy to do, and the last one also protects the cap from overcharging.

Marco.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 29, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
All,

Today I have started to test this circuit.

The circuit works. I use a 10.000uF electrolytic capacitor for
the test. The capacitor charges up and when reached a preset
voltage, discharges through the hexfet transistor and into
my load.

I have not tested the battery feed back yet because I do not have
the 3,6 Volt zener.

More testing is needed before this circuit can be used in a JT setup.

There is one more issue I need to solve. Sometimes the TIC106 stays on
because the current through the relay is just high enough to keep the SCR
on even if the voltage in the cap has fallen to 0,74 Volt. Trying to solve
that problem now.

I could not modify the drawing on one page back so I added the newest circuit here.

[EDIT-1] OK, the circuit as posted here does work. But the discharge voltage threshold is 10,7 Volt.
             So, I need to get that threshold down to 5,1 volt. Working on that now.

[EDIT-2] Can't get the threshold right. The mosfet needs a higher than 5 volt to fully switch on.
             Will not work with the JT as it is now. I need to take a break and rethink this circuit.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on November 29, 2009, 06:36:02 PM
All,

There is one more issue I need to solve. Sometimes the TIC106 stays on
because the current through the relay is just high enough to keep the SCR
on even if the voltage in the cap has fallen to 0,74 Volt. Trying to solve
that problem now.


Alex.

Sometimes one can make use of a transistor switch that can support
a current flow when it is on but not switch that total current flow. When
the current gets low then switch the transistor entirely off then on
again to help out the SCR to switch off.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 29, 2009, 07:32:03 PM
@mscoffman,

Thanks for the tip.

The total current flow through the SCR and the relay is low.
The BS170 can handle the current.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on November 29, 2009, 08:51:22 PM
All,

Today I have started to test this circuit.

The circuit works. I use a 10.000uF electrolytic capacitor for
the test. The capacitor charges up and when reached a preset
voltage, discharges through the hexfet transistor and into
my load.

I have not tested the battery feed back yet because I do not have
the 3,6 Volt zener.

More testing is needed before this circuit can be used in a JT setup.

There is one more issue I need to solve. Sometimes the TIC106 stays on
because the current through the relay is just high enough to keep the SCR
on even if the voltage in the cap has fallen to 0,74 Volt. Trying to solve
that problem now.

I could not modify the drawing on one page back so I added the newest circuit here.

[EDIT-1] OK, the circuit as posted here does work. But the discharge voltage threshold is 10,7 Volt.
             So, I need to get that threshold down to 5,1 volt. Working on that now.

[EDIT-2] Can't get the threshold right. The mosfet needs a higher than 5 volt to fully switch on.
             Will not work with the JT as it is now. I need to take a break and rethink this circuit.

Alex.


Hi Groundloop thanks for the schematic. What are you trying to achieve by this circuit more amps?
And how much are you aiming? Would it be possible that one use small caps to light a heater as gadgetmall did?
Thanks



Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 29, 2009, 09:14:57 PM
@guruji,

I'm trying to build a circuit that will discharge a big battery capacitor to a load when the
capacitor has reached a preset voltage level. The circuit should also feed back some power
from the battcap to the input AA battery.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on November 29, 2009, 10:00:23 PM
@guruji,

I'm trying to build a circuit that will discharge a big battery capacitor to a load when the
capacitor has reached a preset voltage level. The circuit should also feed back some power
from the battcap to the input AA battery.

Alex.

Hi Groundloop first of all sorry about this scheamtic turned sideways try to see it ;anyway by print it. I don't know if this circuit would be of any help to what you've building.
The text says that when the cap is full it is drained to the battery.
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 29, 2009, 10:01:36 PM
Alex:

Wow, you are really working hard on that circuit.  Great work man.

I seem to remember a youtube video a while back done by THEDAFTMAN where he came up with a low power switching circuit to swap out the run and charge batteries from his Bedini when they were full.  I think it was pretty efficient but, I know he had more power to work with.  If you think it might help and possibly give you some ideas I can locate it and post a link here.

Keep up your great work on this.  I only wish I knew enough to be of more help.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: topothemtn on November 30, 2009, 01:01:06 AM
Welcome back Bill. So good to see you here again. You do such a good job we really would have missed your smiling face.

Dick
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 30, 2009, 01:08:40 AM
@guruji,

Thank you for posting that circuit drawing. Yes I have tried that circuit. It works
good for all capacitor voltages above 65 Volt. What I'm trying to do is to switch
2,6 Volt. I'm also trying to make a switch that uses no power when inactive.

Bill,

Good to see you back. :-) I have been working on this circuit two day now and need a rest.
I have some ideas and will be back later on.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 30, 2009, 02:55:38 AM
Thank you Alex . Get some rest . I am Trying to make a better Jt for faster Charging .
Get some rest .
Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 30, 2009, 03:45:38 AM
Topothemtn:

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Groundloop:

Thank you too.  You will figure out that circuit, I have faith in you and your abilities.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 30, 2009, 04:07:53 AM
IST, what exactly are your sun circles supposed to do anyway?

Gadgetmall, I look forward to your casting!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on November 30, 2009, 04:16:39 AM
there led gro lights spectrum tuneable ...  and to be designed with sg ...

sg or is that gs ..

any way 24 modules .. maybe 2400 leds ..

this wil be tuneable for all stages of plant growth and it can accelerate it should i choose that design ..

if i can get everything in place ...  1000's are sold .. instantally ...
for gorwing things......  they are advanced ... things..

w

this is the base that i choose to build it on .. i will use jt's probally powered from a ubc (ultra boost cap) charged from 1 ring ..  the bost cap will go to a voltage devider to drop it to 3 feeds within jt working range...  i could drop a gadget solar under it to charge  ;)

it is never a question of can i build things ... it is a question of whats the budget....   i have some not all materials payed for to built 1 or 2 but i can only go so fast with the limited resources i have

and i wanted a cube for now .. cuz im sure there in demand too... so i put it priorty ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 30, 2009, 08:57:02 PM
@groundloop

What do you think about this circuit?
Could it be added to yours in order to get the feedback?

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 30, 2009, 10:40:40 PM
@groundloop

What do you think about this circuit?
Could it be added to yours in order to get the feedback?

Jesus
@Jesus . We are trying to adapt this circuit to a JT  for the prize . Can this circuit be adapted to a normal JT ? . The purpose Of Alex's Circuits are to monitor the run battery and top it off what the Charge Bcap is above the battery in both volts and amps. . There are other ways to charge these bcaps . If you could and have built the circuit you describe could you measure the volts and current on the out put . the cap is basically a dead short in any circuit so an amp meter will represent the bcap as it is also a short . .

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on November 30, 2009, 10:54:59 PM
@Gadget

Have you thought about using a DC voltage controller that is typically used for solar panels for your charge controller?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on November 30, 2009, 11:21:52 PM
@nievesoliveras,

Thank you for the drawing.

Here are the design criteria:

A battery capacitor is being charged by a JT via a single germanium diode.
The battery capacitor is sharing the "ground" (e.g. minus pole) with the AA battery.

When the battery capacitor is charged to 2,6 Volt then:

1. JT is disconnected
2. Some feedback from the battery capacitor to the AA battery to keep it topped up.
3. Battery capacitor is discharged into load.
4. The discharge circuit must withstand a LOT of ampere.
5. When the battery capacitor reaches 0,5 Volt then stop discharging
6. Connect JT
7. Repeat from above.

Another design criteria must be that the circuit does not load the battery capacitor or the battery
during the charging cycle.

If anyone can make such a circuit then I'm all ear. I was very close with my circuit solution but
it did not work on 2,6 Volt. It was also unstable due to the relays. I will look more into this the next
weekend if I find time.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on November 30, 2009, 11:28:37 PM
@Gadget

Have you thought about using a DC voltage controller that is typically used for solar panels for your charge controller?
I did and I am sure Alex did as well . here is the stumble point . The circuit need to be operated with voltages LESS THAN 1.4 volts . I have thought of boost converters that are available that boost 1 volt to 5.5 volts but they are surface mount devices . My idea would be to only draw from the run battery alone as it can be replenished at a slow rate with a regulator from the Bcap . I would rather not pull from the Bcap for powering the circuit . I also discovered that using a Peliter module rated at 12 volts can run nicely on th ebcap and produce heat and COLD without pulling down the bcap too fast unlike nichrome wire . so i will abandon the nichrome wire and use  cheap Peliter modules . Much better continuous heat or cold when the bcap circuit fires. . All suggestions are very welcome as this is your machine also . If we win i give all the contributors a split . if not then at least everybody will know how to make them a compact self runner complements of Alex and and other EE'S .

Calling all EE 's for help designing one volt switching circuits .

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 01, 2009, 02:59:21 AM
@Jesus . We are trying to adapt this circuit to a JT  for the prize . Can this circuit be adapted to a normal JT ? . The purpose Of Alex's Circuits are to monitor the run battery and top it off what the Charge Bcap is above the battery in both volts and amps. . There are other ways to charge these bcaps . If you could and have built the circuit you describe could you measure the volts and current on the out put . the cap is basically a dead short in any circuit so an amp meter will represent the bcap as it is also a short . .

Albert

@nievesoliveras,

Thank you for the drawing.

Here are the design criteria:

A battery capacitor is being charged by a JT via a single germanium diode.
The battery capacitor is sharing the "ground" (e.g. minus pole) with the AA battery.

When the battery capacitor is charged to 2,6 Volt then:

1. JT is disconnected
2. Some feedback from the battery capacitor to the AA battery to keep it topped up.
3. Battery capacitor is discharged into load.
4. The discharge circuit must withstand a LOT of ampere.
5. When the battery capacitor reaches 0,5 Volt then stop discharging
6. Connect JT
7. Repeat from above.

Another design criteria must be that the circuit does not load the battery capacitor or the battery
during the charging cycle.

If anyone can make such a circuit then I'm all ear. I was very close with my circuit solution but
it did not work on 2,6 Volt. It was also unstable due to the relays. I will look more into this the next
weekend if I find time.

Alex.

I have not built the circuit. But I got it from a Nebo flashlight I opened to see how it charged the running battery when you move the hand crank without disturbing the light. It uses the battery and charges it at the same time. The battery is a 3v flat battery like the ones inside a computer motherboard.

I made a schematic of the working and pulled out just the part I posted which can be run with a joule thief to charge a cap and after the 1.5v is reached on the capacitor and the zener senses it it will fire the transistor wich will short the cap and discharge its contents onto the source battery.

This circuit can work apart from the circuit of the 650F cap.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 01, 2009, 03:29:05 AM
The circuit will run from the secondary of a JT

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 01, 2009, 04:13:55 AM
This is a simpler solution but the parts must be of a quality to withstand the amperage you mentioned.

This is used on the wind turbines as a shunt regulator. Maybe it works on your project.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 01, 2009, 04:29:47 AM
Lets imagine that the amperage going through the transistor is 850A at 2.7v
The transistor uses a small current to move a large one. 100 to 1 I think.

850A/100=8.5A

The formula to get the resistance is R=V/I so:

2.7V/8.5A=0.317647 ohm

So something is wrong here. Is there anybody that can help on this?
I think that that one is a too small resistance for the task.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 01, 2009, 04:37:48 AM
ok i get it . so i could put a 2.5 volt zener on the cap output and when it reached that it would fire the cap into the battery . Well i could go further and put a 1.6 volt zenar in series with the battery to keep it from over charging . I see the problem and the Bcap not wanting to release the scr  after it reaches 2.5 volts because it is so much higher and wont take that long before the battery fries with that amount of amperage across the AA cell . It Might work on a cap to cap system thought . I will see if i can build this and report whats it doing . Anyway Very Good Suggestion and Alex will probably consider this one or maybe already has .

Thanks . I admire your Schematic skills

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 01, 2009, 04:57:18 AM
I vote and nominate Jesus as "Mr. Schematic".  He does do a wonderful job.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 01, 2009, 05:26:59 AM
Lets imagine that the amperage going through the transistor is 850A at 2.7v
The transistor uses a small current to move a large one. 100 to 1 I think.

850A/100=8.5A

The formula to get the resistance is R=V/I so:

2.7V/8.5A=0.317647 ohm

So something is wrong here. Is there anybody that can help on this?
I think that that one is a too small resistance for the task.

Jesus

I think it is more like 30 milliamps becomes 3 amps. But before you do that you need to go around the circuit and subtract all the things that take 1 volt like the resistors and diodes.

I do not know if this will help, and
I cannot do it, but I think this is where to look.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 01, 2009, 05:52:58 AM
ok i get it . so i could put a 2.5 volt zener on the cap output and when it reached that it would fire the cap into the battery . Well i could go further and put a 1.6 volt zenar in series with the battery to keep it from over charging . I see the problem and the Bcap not wanting to release the scr  after it reaches 2.5 volts because it is so much higher and wont take that long before the battery fries with that amount of amperage across the AA cell . It Might work on a cap to cap system thought . I will see if i can build this and report whats it doing . Anyway Very Good Suggestion and Alex will probably consider this one or maybe already has .

Thanks . I admire your Schematic skills

Albert

I vote and nominate Jesus as "Mr. Schematic".  He does do a wonderful job.

Bill

I think it is more like 30 milliamps becomes 3 amps. But before you do that you need to go around the circuit and subtract all the things that take 1 volt like the resistors and diodes.

I do not know if this will help, and
I cannot do it, but I think this is where to look.

jeanna

Thank you @gadgetmal and @pirate.

@lady jeanna.

I said 850A because I read that somewhere as a comentary of the 650F capacitor.
It is good your information for the one that is going to finish the task of tamming the amperage and voltage used as feedback to the source.

All the tools are on the screen now and @gadget understood the idea I wanted him to understand and began to build and test. I am almost happy.

To be completely happy we need a success from the group.

By the way congratulations Lady @jeanna for your @jeanna's light!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 02, 2009, 05:23:51 PM
@Jesus
         I tried your circuit and it Engages however it wont let go once it started . I also did not want to pull anything from the bcap at all until it was ready to do work . 2 volts and over . The reason is it takes a long time to charge with a standard JT . Thus this is why i need Improvements for faster charge time ,a better winding and better transistor . This works as a demonstration as is however I want to push it a bit harder and might decide to use a c or d cell instead and also  a darlington to test this . . And a two inch toroid . Cost for this project  May indeed be the maximum allowed . I think Three hundred ,and now with the only outlet for an ultracap being Maxwell dealers including Mouser Electronics  they alone will be 100+ each .  I have way too many things going on ,Christmas is right around the corner and i need to pay more attention to My daughter's  Love and put up our Tree and Get into the Spirit. Also i have so many orders i will probably shut My site down until after Christmas so i can catch up . Right now i am two weeks behind on two Machine device orders .All others have been Shipped . Pulling from the battery is no concern because it has a recharge source while pulling from the bcap is precious and must be reserved at all cost  to do two functions One to recharge the battery after it gets to 2 volts and the other is power a load be it thermal couple module or Lights and be able to switch off when that work has drained it to under unity of the battery supply . Also anyone with Supercaps as high as 10f to 30 f Might replicate this experiment using a smaller battery than an aa cell . AAA should work with a 10-30f supercap although i don't know . I have some coming to test and see if they come anywhere near the power of an aaa battery . I don't know If a 30farad Supercap will output a continuous source of 2.5 volts at a given amperage or not . From little Cubes that i made i do know they can last over 27 hours powering a Jt and lighting a super bright led so if the little Scap can run that long then it makes since that the led can be replaced to charge a larger supercap to do exactly what  we want the large Ultracap to do ? Ok back to work / l8r . We need a lower powered auto switch that can handle the large current from the Bcap . Its over 3000amps . I hate to wast that thru a resistor trying to dampen it down  ,although this might be filtered thru the thermal heat device to add to the 1 watt needed . Be it heat energy cold energy Light of what ever . It dosnt necessarily have to be all in one place this 1 watt . Many things going on should be added together in the calculation  to complete he final power it produces including simple Heat from components . 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on December 02, 2009, 05:28:33 PM
This is a simpler solution but the parts must be of a quality to withstand the amperage you mentioned.

This is used on the wind turbines as a shunt regulator. Maybe it works on your project.

Jesus

A zener will create a voltage reference point.

I was thinking, that large caps like to discharge fast, just as they were intended for applications which normally bear a large load across their terminals - in systems with use for large currents, like engine starters, etc, or where there is need to maintain a certain ampere flow in a given system.

It seems reasonable to say that the discharging of a capacitor of equal voltage characteristic of a battery, will have higher ampere characteristics then that of the said battery because the battery has a higher internal resistance than that of the capacitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance

Perhaps the impedance characteristics of the capacitor could be matched to the battery without effecting the available energy stored therein.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 02, 2009, 05:45:14 PM
ok

the reason for the b cap starter .. is cuz stage 2 uses some grunt... this is why i tryed to get people to NOT BE CHEEP. as much as you hate to spend money ... you will have JUNK  other WIZE..

lets assume i use 2.6vdc 100 amp as input to stage 2 ... RECONNECT TRANSFORMER .. STYLE 

stupid simple ... but still you want mili amp draw ... I DONT GET IT ... ? ! ? ! ?


w

how many 100 thousand aa can be charged .. from 1 bang .. that big ... ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 02, 2009, 09:12:47 PM
Hi Gagdetmall is it better maybe to run the heater circuit with a 12v battery so that the cap will get faster charge than a 1.5v?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on December 02, 2009, 09:32:32 PM
how many 100 thousand aa can be charged .. from 1 bang .. that big ... ?

How many 100 thousand AA go bang with that one big bang?

Hi Gagdetmall is it better maybe to run the heater circuit with a 12v battery so that the cap will get faster charge than a 1.5v?
Thanks

12V source will damage the Cap unless regulated with a zener or unless there are 6 or more caps in series ...and this divides the capacitance to 1/6th if they're all the same.  I know this wasn't the question..  but the zener WILL shunt current back to ground ( source negative ).
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 02, 2009, 09:58:40 PM
Correct me if I am wrong here but, can't you charge the b-caps with whatever voltage you want as long as you do not exceed the 2.7 volt "full" level?  I have to look back over my experiments with these b-caps to see if I ever did that...I don't remember.  I will check but I am pretty sure I have charged my 2.7 volt 650 F b-cap with a nine volt bat. at least once.  You do NOT want to over fill one of these, that would be dangerous.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 02, 2009, 10:15:20 PM
indeed ... 


now what if the 100 000 aa's were replaced with a device  to produce HEAT ... to keep you warm or light so you could see ..  or flight so you could fly ... my my 
or power SO YOU CAN WATCH TV LOL .....


thank you


w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 02, 2009, 11:52:26 PM
Thank you @gagetmall and @jadaro!!

We have a simple comparator voltage decision to solve as simple as possible on our hands here.

The need is to have the device to give a shot to fill the 1.5v and then stop and wait for the next shot.

I think that the solution is to build a circuit parallel to the bcap circuit, sharing only the negative.  It will have its own flash cap to give it its one shot and stop.

You know that it can be make to work four different ways of turning on an led with the same 1.5v. I did it once with three.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg148135#msg148135

With that idea in mind, the circuit to be added can be designed.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 03, 2009, 12:03:10 AM
Correct me if I am wrong here but, can't you charge the b-caps with whatever voltage you want as long as you do not exceed the 2.7 volt "full" level?  I have to look back over my experiments with these b-caps to see if I ever did that...I don't remember.  I will check but I am pretty sure I have charged my 2.7 volt 650 F b-cap with a nine volt bat. at least once.  You do NOT want to over fill one of these, that would be dangerous.

Bill

I know these are are different beasts then the regular caps but the voltage indicated is usually the working voltage. You do not want to charge them with a voltage that is higher. I would think that charging these with the JT may reduce the life expectancy of the cap. You are sending the cap voltage spikes from the JT that may eventually break down the cap. I keep saying "May" because I am not totally sure. Even though you are charging it with high voltage spikes, the current in these spikes are relatively small so the overall result is ??????
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 03, 2009, 12:03:44 AM
@nievesoliveras,

I have been thinking and I think we can solve the circuit by using op-amps
as comparators. A 741 can operate down to approximately 2 volts so this
should be possible. (The component values in this drawing is not the real one yet.)
The left circuit is for discharge to load. The right circuit is for feed back to AA battery.

What do you think?

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 03, 2009, 12:08:21 AM
This one is with four.

If you take this idea and make two circuits doing two different things with the same voltage. It is possible to solve the problem at hand.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 03, 2009, 12:12:34 AM
@nievesoliveras,

I have been thinking and I think we can solve the circuit by using op-amps
as comparators. A 741 can operate down to approximately 2 volts so this
should be possible. (The component values in this drawing is not the real one yet.)
The left circuit is for discharge to load. The right circuit is for feed back to AA battery.

What do you think?

Alex.

It seems that we were thinking the same thing with different methods.

Jesus

Edit:::

I think that your idea is good!

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 03, 2009, 01:24:14 AM
Hi Gagdetmall is it better maybe to run the heater circuit with a 12v battery so that the cap will get faster charge than a 1.5v?
Thanks
/ No . I have abandon the Coil as it is a waste of good energy and tested with a Thermal pelitier Module . It can also Produce "COLD " and well as HEAT Way more Efficiently than Nichrome and last a great deal longer , Many hours until the bcap reaches 1.4 volts where it should begin another cycle . So its the worlds first AA powered Air conditioner also  :) 




@Alex  Looking good  using Ic's I think also .
Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 03, 2009, 01:28:10 AM
/ No . I have abandon the Coil as it is a waste of good energy and tested with a Thermal pelitier Module . It can also Produce "COLD " and well as HEAT Way more Efficiently than Nichrome and last a great deal longer , Many hours until the bcap reaches 1.4 volts where it should begin another cycle . So its the worlds first AA powered Air conditioner also  :) 




@Alex  Looking good  using Ic's I think also .
Albert

you know gadget if more of the world was like you .....  we as a human race ...  would long ago know the cosmos ... 

you make me smile ... can i say more .... 

looks like your tackion eyes burnt the wall down ...   lol

peace bro!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 03, 2009, 01:34:45 AM
@Gadgetmall,

You might want to look at robotic solar engines. They might have the switching effect you are looking for.

From Solarbotics site:
"...The purpose of a solar engine is to act like a power "savings account" -- a small trickle of incoming energy is saved up until a usable amount is stored. This stored energy is then released in a burst, in order to drive some useful (if only sporadic and incremental) work..."

http://www.solarbotics.net/library/circuits/se.html

http://www.elecfree.com/electronic/the-t3se-type-3-solar-engine-by-2n39062n3904/
http://faq.solarbotics.net/oscillate.html
http://www.elecfree.com/electronic/mini-zener-based-solar-engine-by-2n3904/
http://www.jcminventures.com/chlorplast_instructions.htm
http://www.imagesco.com/solar/1381.html

I've been also trying to find ways to switch high current for the 1500's other than buying a $30K transfer switch and robotics is looking good. A small 3v 45ma solar motor can easily make a servo style wire contact on/off or through magnetic switching. Also look for battery monitoring chips for cell phones, they have a very small draw of power.

MCP100-270DI chip VTrip range 2.55V-2.70V
45ua draw, The reset pin is kept low until voltage threshold is reached.
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en010684
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 03, 2009, 01:44:06 AM
IST to the rescue ...

AGIN...

lol

look at my picture ......  do do do la la la

30 bucks ...

ist

it needs a supply  pulse to trigger it ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 03, 2009, 01:51:23 AM
Another thought . ,To regulate the Shot into the battery we could run it threw a 1volt flashlight bulb to absorb some of the current and also produce some  light rather than use resistor but still the problem of turning off that circuit . If we can nail that one part of that circuit then Controlling the out put controller could be devised later . For now the Big problem is keeping the circuit in self run mode after the Bcap reaches Above unity of the Source . .
 
@Dreamthinkbuild
 thank you for the links . we will read on ! Alex if your in here that is kind of what we are looking for . Lets see  if the Volts are in our range .



Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: broli on December 03, 2009, 01:55:58 AM
Another thought . ,To regulate the Shot into the battery we could run it threw a 1volt flashlight bulb to absorb some of the current and also produce some  light rather than use resistor but still the problem of turning off that circuit . If we can nail that one part of that circuit then Controlling the out put controller could be devised later . For now the Big problem is keeping the circuit in self run mode after the Bcap reaches Above unity of the Source . .

This problem is an engineering problem which can be solved by some electronics, no? I think the big focus now is amplyfing this effect. From hours for charging the bcap to a few seconds. Then these can start heating homes. There's no need to hold back or be shy. IST seems to be heading into this direction too.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 03, 2009, 02:03:25 AM
Quote
IST to the rescue ...

Ist that is pretty nice, 3v trigger too. Makes my $1.25 solar motor quiver in fear. ;D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 03, 2009, 02:08:40 AM
This problem is an engineering problem which can be solved by some electronics, no? I think the big focus now is amplyfing this effect. From hours for charging the bcap to a few seconds. Then these can start heating homes. There's no need to hold back or be shy. IST seems to be heading into this direction too.
:) Well Yes  Ist is heading into House voltage using Inverters ,i Think . But for now this little project for the ou contest wont . It might keep your hamster nice and cozy in the winter or summer :)  Or maybe a well insulated Dog house .you will need a good 2 or 300 bcaps to heat a home . And that might be an option for some if you think how much you pay in gas and electricity verse . Also there is no way to charge these caps up in seconds unless you got access to a 200 amp charger . I have already burned out a good 10 amp battery charger trying to charge one up .Had it for over 10 years  :(   They require a Constant Current supply as battery Chargers see them as a Dead Short ! We are doing good to charge them up ANY with an AA battery and a JT . And so i have been trying various Coils to cut the time to charge down and if you guys have the time i woul dlike you to measure your Input and output current on your Jt circuits using a 1 volt source . I am getting 5-6 Milliamps off the 2n2222a  C E junction . None off a secondary so far . only volts and Microamps . These caps like current and eat it up in a big way ,by storing it and amplifying it .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on December 03, 2009, 02:42:28 AM
Thank you @gagetmall and @jadaro!!

We have a simple comparator voltage decision to solve as simple as possible on our hands here.

The need is to have the device to give a shot to fill the 1.5v and then stop and wait for the next shot.

I think that the solution is to build a circuit parallel to the bcap circuit, sharing only the negative.  It will have its own flash cap to give it its one shot and stop.

You know that it can be make to work four different ways of turning on an led with the same 1.5v. I did it once with three.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg148135#msg148135

With that idea in mind, the circuit to be added can be designed.

Jesus

Thermo switch may work, ..they cut of when they reach a certain temperature, looks a bit like a diode.

edit; I apologize this is a crap example, i don't think they're fast enough, plus they take time to turn back on...often more than a few minutes.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on December 03, 2009, 02:54:59 AM
@Gadetmall,

Quote
It might keep your hamster nice and cozy in the winter or summer

What if you have a 10,000+ square foot hamster cage?  :D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 03, 2009, 02:56:40 AM
IST:

No one has ever won the human race but, guys like you and Gadget make it fun to watch. (An adaptation of a quote from Kinky Friedman)  Keep on keeping on guys.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 03, 2009, 03:02:27 AM
the ones that i have and i have 4 of them are 12vdc triggers ..

they are 3 phase ac ss relays up to 500v 40 a or something like that ..  you go tic it goes bang bang bang

ist

gadget this is why i ordered and designed by 6

i could use 10 on the output.. so as i have more amprage  still 12vdc ..

im almost finished mounting the 4 ring unit to a plastic square .. i will make this so i can better study what is going on in this unit ...

i just drew up the digram .. by hand all seams in ordor i see no reason this will not work ... if there is .. then i will find it ..

materials 4 goldmines 1"
2 28 ga magnet wire .. 7.3 grams each
2 14 ga 15" long 8 turn magnet wire 7.3 grams each
3 bridge rectifiers
1 cap

explanantion ...  a signal is apply to the first bridge rectifier .. it is then made dc .. that pulse is then connected to the input of the device ... out put of devices goes through a bridge to a cap

so as i apply power it should travel through the first bridge the 4 coils .. out to the cap .. ok
now where the first bridge hooks on add another the same way but after the first one .. so that when you cut your pulse .. the fly back has no choise but to exit where the second bridge is as the first one blocks it ..

see where this one goes ...  picture 15 ...  hummmmmmm
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gravityblock on December 03, 2009, 11:03:02 AM
Also there is no way to charge these caps up in seconds unless you got access to a 200 amp charger.

Homopolar generator produces constant DC and could easily achieve 200 amps to charge those caps up in seconds.  Rotate a conductive magnet with the cap being the stationary external circuit.  Voltage shouldn't be a problem, since the voltage can be increased with a few simple techniques.  Not very difficult.

GB

Edit:  Don't forget about the Wiegan effect.  Could it be used for the one volt switching circuit?  Wrap a coil around a Wiegan Sensor as shown below or use an electromagnet to trigger it.  The coil would need to be AC.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 03, 2009, 01:29:16 PM
@ist

That circuit looks interesting.
I labeled it so we are all understanding your ideas.
Do not abandon it now. Follow the idea.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 03, 2009, 01:41:34 PM
thank you jesus ..

i do understand this litterly years ago now ...

it is easy .. there is no pot in it the chokes are the fine wire cores .. the 815 are the kickers ...

much like my arc reactor ... put a push button on it ..

push the button .. study what happins ...

i cant draw well   when you turn it on AS SHOWEN in my original dwg ..  THIS IS WHAT HAPPINS

the cap is filled dirrectly then engery wiggles its way through the chokes to the cap .. then release it ..  it will want to flow back to the switch ... i dont let it as per the design ... so it is rectified and sent to the OUTPUT CAP with the first pulse the choked engery and now the colpase ..

this is a SIMPLE SAFE WAY TO RUN WITH GAIN ..

w

being that this set up is tuned ... mass to mass that means it should work any speed ...

we will find it perfers to work best at its tuned resonance .. and then intrupted ..  but we wont go that deep for now with this simple design ..

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 03, 2009, 03:49:58 PM
@ist

Is it this what you mean?

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 03, 2009, 06:21:07 PM
yes that is correct ...

take note   bridge can be subbed for diodes and can allow for npn and pnp switching ...

i will build a small unit when i finally finish paying for my parts ... tonight i hope .. as i have been told .. see how it goes ..

all i can do ... 

can you understand how this works jesus ..  thank you for my drawing ...  i need to repair my computer i then will draw in corel draw some nice clean designs and ways this can be configured ..

this is teslas work ..  i can find a few pattends ..

if i need to

ist!

now i need to say more ..... errrr 

this design may allow for many advancements to it yet ... 

1 any number of tuned coils may be added ...  the placement may be played with ...

honestly ...  i can improve way beond what you can imagine .. currently

look at this pic ...  what is it why can i build it if i choose to ...  because i understand it ... why

cuz i invented it ...   

 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 03, 2009, 07:53:51 PM
yes that is correct .
look at this pic ...  what is it why can i build it if i choose to ...  because i understand it ... why

cuz i invented it ...
ahhhhhhhhhhh            Airhose fittings ? On top of your Schematic ?   ;D
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 03, 2009, 08:24:01 PM
almost

its a light saver ... from star wars ... 

ist

now ... imagine the force feild i could put around earth to protect it ...

there 3 savers ... but if the humans would have not almost destoryed it ...  i would not have to introduce this teck ...  your almost out of time ...

first you must be a GOD or so called ... i do not like the trem gods ... this implys power over others ... this is not true .. were equals ... you just dont know it yet ... silly humans...

any how a human can not built it .. they try and they die ... many times ...  do you know why ..

i infact do !

w815
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jadaro2600 on December 04, 2009, 03:45:53 AM
@ist

Is it this what you mean?

Jesus

I've you're going to use AC, then your kickers might want to share a toroid.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 04, 2009, 06:47:13 AM
ac is not required but i can use it ...

tesla says dc or ac can be used same method .. lol

anyhow ...

GUESS what i got for a gift...  60 feet heavy gage wire .. and i get some real thick wire next week ..

this is 8 gage ...  yep .. 600/1000v #8awg rw90 ... probally 90 amp ...  it is not your avarge wire .. and i was given a hole spool of 10 or 12 gage solid hummm  i can infact put 2 and 2 togather to add it  up to 4 ...  lol 

so i have decided to build a SIMPLE OTTO TPU...   but my way ..  i will try tuneing mass to mass ... 90 deg and see what will be .... 

its really simple ... agin ou ... but whos counting ... not me ... i give up on that ... 

ill build it then add a pic tommorow of it ...  i see no reason a jt can not control this unit ... 

maybe make it the jt .....  hummmmm   

i weighed 1 foot of wire it weighs 23.3grams with out the insulation ... mass of copper ...to mass of copper ..  so i could then split the jt to half the weight but bifillar ..   or equal   or what ever ... i have 1000 feet of 12 or 14 or whatever it is ... 

ist!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 05, 2009, 03:48:59 AM
Homopolar generator produces constant DC and could easily achieve 200 amps to charge those caps up in seconds.  Rotate a conductive magnet with the cap being the stationary external circuit.  Voltage shouldn't be a problem, since the voltage can be increased with a few simple techniques.  Not very difficult.

GB

Edit:  Don't forget about the Wiegan effect.  Could it be used for the one volt switching circuit?  Wrap a coil around a Wiegan Sensor as shown below or use an electromagnet to trigger it.  The coil would need to be AC.
Thank you for educating me on the Wiegan sensor . Do you have any idea what they are made of ? Something like a tape recorder head ? I know it senses minuet magnetic wires but its beyond me as to how one could apply this or what output the wiegan sensor  outputs .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Thaelin on December 05, 2009, 04:36:16 AM
   Just remember that using a SS Relay meant for AC,
you have to use AC. It will not shut off unless the zero
crossing happens. Made that mistake and it cost me 6
relays to find out. Still have them here some where.

thaelin
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 05, 2009, 04:56:33 AM
   Just remember that using a SS Relay meant for AC,
you have to use AC. It will not shut off unless the zero
crossing happens. Made that mistake and it cost me 6
relays to find out. Still have them here some where.

thaelin

thank you for the fore warning ...  i have not ran them ..  i may have to redesign a unit .. to allow for this .. hummmmm...  no problem ... it will just cost more ... but it wont blow up ... and still runn from a i cube unit ...   i will use a smal 12vdc to 110 ac sine wave invertor ..  then step it down through a variac... to 5 vac a few amps.. to power the big relays..  then indiviguall rectify them .. then 3 phase them on a core ... thease w material cores .. can handle a few amps i would think .. as a transformer .. i bet there is 1 heck of a flux made with a few amps ... 123 123 thats a lot of movement in the core ...

w

i can draw this if you like ...  basically a 3 phase reconnect transformer rotating about a w material core ..  it in my mind would be best to put the secondsries on the core first then wind over that the 3 5 turn primaries...  power this too from a jt power can if you want ... but you need the ac ... for the ss 3 phase relay ... so invertor and variac  inverter 75 watt 15 bucks .. and its small ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gravityblock on December 05, 2009, 10:41:53 AM
Thank you for educating me on the Wiegan sensor . Do you have any idea what they are made of ? Something like a tape recorder head ? I know it senses minuet magnetic wires but its beyond me as to how one could apply this or what output the wiegan sensor  outputs .

The Wiegand effect is a nonlinear magnetic effect, produced in specially annealled and hardened wire called Wiegand wire.  In the Wiegand Sensor, the polarity will switch direction only after the magnetic field reaches a certain strength and a rapid magnetic field change will increase the output voltage by several orders of magnitude. 

Since the strength of the magnetic field is proportional to both the number of turns in the winding and the current in the wire, I assume the Wiegand Sensor can be made to switch polarity after reaching a certain voltage threshold, especially by varying the distance between an electromagnet and the sensor.  The output of the sensor will be either a negative or positive pulse according to the polarity of the magnetic field.  These pulses will let you know you've reached a certain voltage threshold and allow you to trigger other components in the one volt switching circuit according to the pulse itself or the polarity of the pulse.  The sensor won't send out another pulse until a magnetic field of the opposite polarity with a certain strength triggers the sensor again.  This pulse will be opposite in polarity to the previous pulse. 

There are two modes of magnetic excitation of the Wiegand effect, symmetric switching and asymmetric switching.  In the asymmetrical switching mode, the Wiegand wire is magnetized and triggered by magnetic fields of opposite polarity but unequal strength.  In symmetric switching, alternating positive and negative magnetic fields of equal strength are used to magnetize and trigger the Wiegand wire.  Below is two illustrations showing the different switching modes. 

We would probably use the asymmetrical switching mode for our task.  We would have 2 electromagnets placed at different distances from the sensor.  The electromagnet closer to the sensor can trigger the sensor at a lower voltage, and the electromagnet farther away can trigger the sensor after reaching a higher voltage.  Each electromagnet will be of opposite polarity but unequal strength.  With a little logic in the circuit, we can control the behavior according to the different polarity in the pulses we receive based on the voltage, assuming I have this all correct and I believe I do.

Heinrich Barkhausen discovered that a slow, smooth increase of a magnetic field applied to a piece of ferromagnetic material, such as iron, causes it to become magnetized, not continuously but in minute steps.  These magnetization jumps are interpreted as discrete changes in the size or rotation of ferromagnetic domains.

A coil of wire wound on the ferromagnetic material can demonstrate the sudden, discontinuous jumps in magnetization. The sudden transitions in the magnetization of the material produce current pulses in the coil.

The Wiegand effect is a macroscopic extension of the Barkhausen effect as the special treatment of the Wiegand wire causes the wire to act macroscopically as a single large magnetic domain.  The small high-coercivity domains in the Wiegand wire outer shell switch in an avalanche, generating the Wiegand effect's rapid magnetic field change.

Because the voltage induced by a changing magnetic field is proportional to the rate of change of the field, a Wiegand-wire core can increase the output voltage by several orders of magnitude as compared to a similar coil with a non-Wiegand core.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkhausen_effect


GB
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gravityblock on December 05, 2009, 01:54:17 PM
@gadgetmall:

Why can't an IC be used to generate a signal after reaching a maximum voltage and generate another signal after reaching a minimum voltage?

http://www.interfacebus.com/voltage_threshold.html

VCC: The voltage applied to the power pin(s). In most cases the voltage the device needs to operate at.

VIH: [Voltage Input High] The minimum positive voltage applied to the input which will be accepted by the device as a logic high.

VIL: [Voltage Input Low] The maximum positive voltage applied to the input which will be accepted by the device as a logic low.

VOL: [Voltage Output Low] The maximum positive voltage from an output which the device considers will be accepted as the maximum positive low level.

VOH: [Voltage Output High] The maximum positive voltage from an output which the device considers will be accepted as the minimum positive high level.

VT: [Threshold Voltage] The voltage applied to a device which is "transition-Operated", which cause the device to switch. May also be listed as a '+' or '-' value.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 05, 2009, 04:50:07 PM
@gadgetmall:

Why can't an IC be used to generate a signal after reaching a maximum voltage and generate another signal after reaching a minimum voltage?

http://www.interfacebus.com/voltage_threshold.html

VCC: The voltage applied to the power pin(s). In most cases the voltage the device needs to operate at.

VIH: [Voltage Input High] The minimum positive voltage applied to the input which will be accepted by the device as a logic high.

VIL: [Voltage Input Low] The maximum positive voltage applied to the input which will be accepted by the device as a logic low.

VOL: [Voltage Output Low] The maximum positive voltage from an output which the device considers will be accepted as the maximum positive low level.

VOH: [Voltage Output High] The maximum positive voltage from an output which the device considers will be accepted as the minimum positive high level.

VT: [Threshold Voltage] The voltage applied to a device which is "transition-Operated", which cause the device to switch. May also be listed as a '+' or '-' value.
Gravityblock , I believe this is where we are at the present . Alex(Groundloop) trying a comparator to do just that . the one parameter  is that the IC must operate at very volt voltages .1.4 and a bit higher . I don't want to take any power from the Bcap because the time it takes to charge up is long, and power everything circuit wise from the AA battery which can be replenishment once the BCap reaches over the unity of the battery . I have mentioned a tiny dc to dc step up converter that will step up 1,4 volts to 5.5 and Also maybe we could make another secondary and tap.rectify and filter that winding for the chip power . I have been working on a new coil to speed up the charging effect . I just got some big TIP3055's in yesterday  and see if i can boost  it up a bit higher.

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 05, 2009, 06:29:25 PM
Gadget,

I have found the perfect IC for the job. The MAX856CSA.
This IC itself uses only 25uA current from the battery.

The MAX856CSA has a built in low voltage detector that can
be used to trigger the feed back charging to the AA battery.

If we use the +5 volt generated from the IC then it is just
enough to control a hexfet gate.

Will be designing around this IC and report back when done.

Alex.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on December 05, 2009, 07:33:20 PM
@ Gadget

Is that 1.4 volts to 5.5v dc/dc or 1   4v to 5.5v?

Where can you get these?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 05, 2009, 08:15:30 PM
Gadget,

Here is my proposed circuit for keeping the input AA battery topped up from
the bcap.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 05, 2009, 10:29:27 PM
well my bro gave me a new hat today   i like it..  for a few reasons..

under armour  lol   just love the logo...  H  lol

any how  im going to finish the tpu jt ring i built today..  i might make a vedio of it ..

im gonna dig out the varac and i picked up some ac amp meter base units to mesure draw ...

we will see how it goes .. i will finish hooking up the ring its self ...

ist!

i have designed a better ring ..  this one is for J

just what you need ok

just like the 1 im working on but .... i WILL FORCE IT to a center collector loop ... this will be bifillar

it will be all copper it will be forced to colpase on it .. wich means i will not take from the power coil any colpase ... it insted will be the bifillar other half... if ya follow that ... lol

its next ...  and for J 

  it will be tuned...  i have built this one years ago in a diffrent form ...    and i do mean years ago ...  im sure ... many have built it ... tho few i doubt built it properly ... or understand how and why it works ..

thank you

william
 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 06, 2009, 02:46:20 AM
Gadget,

Here is my proposed circuit for keeping the input AA battery topped up from
the bcap.

Alex.
@Groundloop  .Yes Very Nice Alex . I have some of these ! I actually got them for free as samples from maxim.com . I thought they might come in handy . Now i have to order the rest of that stuff . For all you Guys this is the cheapest place i have seen on the internet  for shipping and CHEAP parts   tayda electronics . good parts and cheap shipping  for inductors transistor and electronics taydaelectronics.com  .

This looks like it will work . hope you get your package soon ! Merry Christmas .




Albert




....................

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 06, 2009, 09:20:53 AM
Albert,

It is also nice that we now have +5 volt converted from the AA battery.

Later on we can add a PIC16F88 to the circuit (and a n-type mosfet) and
then we will also have the discharge switch. With a pic in there we can also
pulse modulate the charge (and discharge) so that the current is keep at
a level that the mosfets will tolerate. The f88 pic can run on a internal oscillator
and can be run slow so that the current usage will be minimum.

When you have tested the circuit then we can make a nice pcb for the project.

(I highly doubt one can get ICs from http://www.maxim.com/ ) :-)

I'm pretty sure you meant http://www.maxim-ic.com/ :-)

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 06, 2009, 03:45:47 PM
Albert,

It is also nice that we now have +5 volt converted from the AA battery.

Later on we can add a PIC16F88 to the circuit (and a n-type mosfet) and
then we will also have the discharge switch. With a pic in there we can also
pulse modulate the charge (and discharge) so that the current is keep at
a level that the mosfets will tolerate. The f88 pic can run on a internal oscillator
and can be run slow so that the current usage will be minimum.

When you have tested the circuit then we can make a nice pcb for the project.

(I highly doubt one can get ICs from http://www.maxim.com/ ) :-)

I'm pretty sure you meant http://www.maxim-ic.com/ :-)

Alex.
:-[ Oops.. I see what you mean . Fellas and gals I meant www.maxim-ic.com  not the girls site .  .

Alex the two i have are not dip and are as small as ants . I have reordered the csa version . and hope package SO is DIP with 8 legs . Look at this thing  . Its surface mount and there is no way i can use it ,it was a free sample and there are many styles . I didn't know the package code . I reordered 2 more samples of every max856 they offer . You can order Free samples of the max chip csa+ . Means no lead in that component . these are max856 so package . soic is what i have .I have to get an adapter to use these i have . they sell them here but i have no idea how to solder them without a hotair soldering station .but i might give it a try . here is the site to get smt and soic to dip adapters http://www.proto-advantage.com


Edit ok the SO is MINI DIP . what i got was MICRO ! I have soldered these minidip before ,at least they have legs BUT you need a board to solder to so i will not be able to test this . You need a variable temp soldering station and a magnifying loupe which i have  . Its not that hard if you have a circuit board with the solder points ,i don't . So max856csa is mini dip and will need an expensive adapter  . The boards will have  that type of surface ? or do we need to buy adapters to regular dip ?   never mind we need MAX856CPA . It is the only one that is dip . and its not free . I cannot find them anywhere online without buying 1000'dollars worth : ) So i will stick with csa versions mini so with tiny legs
Picture is beside a quarter and a small transistor . these are usless and are umax surface mount .

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 06, 2009, 04:17:33 PM
Albert,

Don't worry. I will include the PIC16F88 and a discharge circuit into the design
and get a pro. pcb. The pcb has solder mask so soldering surface mount components
is not a problem. I have hand soldered mini sops ICs, but it is difficult and you need
a head wear magnifying glass. I will also make the feed back voltage threshold
a variable setting so that you can adjust the voltage threshold point.

Working on the circuit right now..........

Alex. 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 06, 2009, 04:42:19 PM
Albert,

Don't worry. I will include the PIC16F88 and a discharge circuit into the design
and get a pro. pcb. The pcb has solder mask so soldering surface mount components
is not a problem. I have hand soldered mini sops ICs, but it is difficult and you need
a head wear magnifying glass. I will also make the feed back voltage threshold
a variable setting so that you can adjust the voltage threshold point.

Working on the circuit right now..........

Alex.
Alex , The CSA version of the chip is free sample and its Mini  dip  package type so so it does have legs and i used to work for Uscellular on their cell phones so i can solder these . the adapter is not that expensive i found one here http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=2200216

there 4.99 plus shipping 3.00 for one adapter from soic to dip . I think i would rather solder the mini so csa chip and NOT buy an adapter but for testing i bought two adapters so i can run it on a proto board. I have two chips  coming from maxim for samples  . The Chip above in the picture is out of the question and will be scrapped its umax and useless for our project here . No problem though , i'll wait and get the csa versions next week . I MIGHT be able to solder them on a solder proto board on the backside where the copper points are . So please wait before you spend money on pro boards .
Albert

I got a few more toy Ic's from Maxim and One is real interesting . It is an 8 pin DIP  max1771epa+ /  its a 2 volt to 12 upconverter . I can't wait to test this on the cap output for another purpose !


PS... i just ordered 2 soic to dip adapters for 12.98 Us .so not too bad . This will convert the free chips to 8pin dip which i have sockets for . Also you can order weekly free samples from maxim  2 each up to 7 items for free !! . Already order three times and requested quotes on less quanity than 1000 . We will see .

Guyss this is going to be Great ! . I know this will self run manually so this circuit is going to work i do believe, for the worlds first public self runner anyone can make and own ! well almost anyone .

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 06, 2009, 06:54:53 PM
Albert,

Here is the circuit with a discharge to load added.

I'm going to order pcbs for this circuit and will have
the circuit ready for testing in 2 - 3 weeks time.
(Sorry, that is the fastest production time I can afford right now.)

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 06, 2009, 07:20:55 PM
you all know what is happening here... dont you ... 

lol 

wonderful job everyone ... 


quantum leep im right at your doorstep...

i give it 6 months ... and  we will be at an UNMATCHED POINT IN HUMAN HISTORY...  well not that were not already there now at that point .. but .. i mean  crazy wild ...

things the size of your hand powering cars...   wouldnt that be wild to see...  now imagine where this goes ...  on a higher level it goes wild tooo  just as teck increases .. as do abilities...

not that cars will be around that long eather .. but there here now and humans understand how electricty can power a motor and turn some wheels ...  so i do wonder why they burn oil...  thats so cave man ... 

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on December 06, 2009, 07:39:39 PM

@groundloop and gadetmail;

Keep up the excellent work. I have to say that my expectations about demonstratable
overunity energy have gone to the next higher level, because of this project, which
has not really happened before now. Please keep it simple and open as you target the
Overunity.com prize. Please let everyone have a crack at building a demonstrator
PCB unit and do this before implementing any product plans.

I hate to say this, but I feel the fate of the future earth's ecosystems could very well
lay in your hands...Don't blow this without a good effort on your part. That is how
progress happens...and the way things are.

---

Sometimes it may be better to light one small LED than it is to curse the darkness.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on December 06, 2009, 07:44:20 PM
Alex , The CSA version of the chip is free sample and its Mini  dip  package type so so it does have legs and i used to work for Uscellular on their cell phones so i can solder these . the adapter is not that expensive i found one here http://www.proto-advantage.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=2200216

there 4.99 plus shipping 3.00 for one adapter from soic to dip . I think i would rather solder the mini so csa chip and NOT buy an adapter but for testing i bought two adapters so i can run it on a proto board. I have two chips  coming from maxim for samples  . The Chip above in the picture is out of the question and will be scrapped its umax and useless for our project here . No problem though , i'll wait and get the csa versions next week . I MIGHT be able to solder them on a solder proto board on the backside where the copper points are . So please wait before you spend money on pro boards .
Albert

I got a few more toy Ic's from Maxim and One is real interesting . It is an 8 pin DIP  max1771epa+ /  its a 2 volt to 12 upconverter . I can't wait to test this on the cap output for another purpose !


PS... i just ordered 2 soic to dip adapters for 12.98 Us .so not too bad . This will convert the free chips to 8pin dip which i have sockets for . Also you can order weekly free samples from maxim  2 each up to 7 items for free !! . Already order three times and requested quotes on less quanity than 1000 . We will see .

Guyss this is going to be Great ! . I know this will self run manually so this circuit is going to work i do believe, for the worlds first public self runner anyone can make and own ! well almost anyone .

I can't wait to buy the circuit board!!!  Nice work guys keep it up!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 06, 2009, 08:05:30 PM
@mscoffman,

Thank you for those encouraging words. :-)

@stprue,

I will have the boards around the 18 of December. I will ship off 24 boards to Gadget asap
after that. Then I will build the circuit, develop the firm ware and test the circuit. If you
ask Gadget then I'm sure he can spare a board to you also. We need at least three replications
of his circuit setup.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 06, 2009, 09:12:46 PM
@ Groundloop:

That is excellent work!  Your efforts here are greatly appreciated.  That is a work of art.  I am looking forward to seeing this work.



@ All:

I found this on Youtube.

Boiling water in a 3kw kettle using ultracaps:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RWaCE_SW8w&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RWaCE_SW8w&feature=related)

This is great as it took only about 20 seconds to do this.

I thought you guys might want to see this.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 06, 2009, 09:54:17 PM
@mscoffman,

Thank you for those encouraging words. :-)

@stprue,

I will have the boards around the 18 of December. I will ship off 24 boards to Gadget asap
after that. Then I will build the circuit, develop the firm ware and test the circuit. If you
ask Gadget then I'm sure he can spare a board to you also. We need at least three replications
of his circuit setup.

Alex.
Alex,
So Sweet . You read My mind . I was going to ask you to post the pictorial layout ! . Shouldn't you wait until i test the feedback circuit before ordering  ? OR if your sure it will do its intended job then it's a go  !

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 06, 2009, 10:07:42 PM
Albert,

The circuit will do what it is designed to do.
We can always improve the circuit later on.

Bill,

Thanks :-)

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 06, 2009, 10:15:58 PM
good work gl

i have been testing my coil and i can not get it to run  real well  its more of a higher volt amp thing ...

so i guess ill put it away for now .. and wind a new one  but i will do only 1 layer and i will use fine wire .. 28ga .. and ill go equal mass .. 

same as the last one ..

it is not that it does not work ...  it is thats its a week magfeild ..  and not much inductance .. 

this will change ..  the next one will be just 3 coils ...  and i will get better results from a aa battery ..  than the one showen ..  its more for the ultra boost caps .. setup ..

ist 

so i guess back to work .. for a much higher self inductance coil ... 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 06, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
William,

Thanks. :-)

Good luck with your coils.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 06, 2009, 11:30:50 PM
@All . IF there is an interest and this project Flys like i think it will then i might get many more boards made but they are expensive to make so there will have to be a great interest . I am not rich and neither is Alex . We want the same thing however and I am sure everyone will have the opportunity to build one even without a factory Board . I intend to start building one on a solder prototype board starting next week .Just as soon as we get this done , i'll make a video as Stephan requested and send to him to he can upload it for us  and then send  Stephan one and let him make his decision . May be not the whole prize, maybe all of it,maybe overunity/selfrun is not enuff. we will see. this project is going to hit the maximum limit for part and labor cost because if the initial works and research in prototypes and i want to be able to help recoup cost . The Final product should not cost over 160 dollars including the cap at todays cost . But after it's made ,verified and released  look out for bcaps to increase dramatically as workd spreads.  . This is why we need all the EE"s and guys that are capable of building this to replicate it  NOW !.All the information is here now except the pic code ,so get it ready! Or you can help By Submitting your best Jt design with the highest output ,both Volts and amps off of your CE junction or secondary to facilitate faster charging of these monster B caps . I can get a few more i held back and really didn't want to sell anymore but if you really need one i will sell you one . you can practice with 10-30 farad supercaps . Please report you design here and submit your volts and amp reading with the type of toroid and windings ,transistor etc. The unit must operate from one cell range 1.2 1.6 volts  and produce more than My standard design  . I have rectified the CE junction with one germanium diode . I chose this for  the minimum voltage drop . to do your test i sugesst a one ohm resistor across that junction and take your readings across it . This will simulate what the bcap looks like on your transistor . Its almost a dead short and a wonder it even oscillates and induces into a secondary !There are better Jt's,transistors and better cores than the 1 inch goldmine but these are very good ones .  I am getting about 10-12 volts @ 5.5 milliamps from The 2n2222a junction and microamps from the secondary . My secondary will light up 1 watt leds but no current is their only Micramps/  . remember the transistor should operate at a minimium input to prolong the battery life . My circuit will run for over one week pulling 20ma . I prefer 13 ma and i get over two weeks continuous bcap charging s from my standard Jt and Yes one wire jump thru a 1.2 volt flashlight bulb   b trickles the battery just enuff to keep the battery charging and the bcap from discharging any great amount or amps ,only 100'th of volts and milliamps  . this is VERY good because the work required to keep the unit running dosent run the bacp down below unity !!
Any help is appreciated and you will included in the group . As i said before and on my honor  if i win all that contributed will win as well and get a share and access . Also the very least is a self running light source  / with a powerful output . I think the Charge time MUST BE CUT DOWN so if you want to get involved then submit your data,design jt  with pictures .

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 06, 2009, 11:41:08 PM
here is another design .. 

real easy ...

make a aircore jt on a thick wire...  this can have an idependent supply from a aa  then i need a ubc
and u charge it from the jt ... simple then you drain the ubc while it is rechargeing from the jt ...  and the air core jt squeezes the ubc on its way out ... orrr   i can take the fly back from the jt and power a free PUSH COIL ...  hummmmmmm

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 06, 2009, 11:41:19 PM
Al:

I would consider Jeanna's coil for this maybe? (The same as the Jeanna's Light circuit)  At almost 1,500 volts the charge cycle would not take long at all on the b-cap.

Now this is what I have learned with mine so far.  At first, you think you can't feed 1,500 volts into the little 2.7 b-cap and in reality, maybe that is a bit too high, but you can send in a very large voltage signal from a JT that the b-caps "converts" for lack of a better term, into power/voltage via capacitance formulas.

So even though the 1,500 volts input has very little amperage, when that b-cap gets to 2.7 volts and cuts off the input signal, you will have a full cap.  I think this would happen very quickly too.

Anyway, my two cents.  There are other very good JT's out there with much lower outputs and they may be better for this application, I don't know for sure.  But, Godspeed on this project Al, I feel confident that something very good will come of this.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on December 06, 2009, 11:42:33 PM
Here is a good and simple design

I think 250 @26guage Primary

15 by 3 BC coils

These are approximate!  Good Voltage and easy design.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 07, 2009, 12:04:07 AM
Al:

I would consider Jeanna's coil for this maybe? (The same as the Jeanna's Light circuit)  At almost 1,500 volts the charge cycle would not take long at all on the b-cap.

Now this is what I have learned with mine so far.  At first, you think you can't feed 1,500 volts into the little 2.7 b-cap and in reality, maybe that is a bit too high, but you can send in a very large voltage signal from a JT that the b-caps "converts" for lack of a better term, into power/voltage via capacitance formulas.

So even though the 1,500 volts input has very little amperage, when that b-cap gets to 2.7 volts and cuts off the input signal, you will have a full cap.  I think this would happen very quickly too.

Anyway, my two cents.  There are other very good JT's out there with much lower outputs and they may be better for this application, I don't know for sure.  But, Godspeed on this project Al, I feel confident that something very good will come of this.

Bill
Bill i also ordered 4 samples from them the same time you did . I expect them in by next week . This is why i ask other to help with there date as explained . I don't have time as i am building the Ou conrtroller and getting ready for Asia's Christmas . I don't see a problem running 1500 volts into a 2.5 volt 2.7 farad cap as long as you can ,measure the current and monitor the volts . By the time you short that 1500volts with an bcap it will be nill .test this by putting a one ohm resistor on that output and you will see what i mean .  My standard secondary unloaded and rectified produced 75 volts but it will not charge the bcap ! so i suspect current it the main component in my charging off the transistor .
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 07, 2009, 12:09:20 AM
ok here is another simple design

i will string  many jt 1" on 1 coper loop all the fly back from all the jt's ....  fly out through the loop to the CHARGEING BCAP..

simple basic ... bla bla ...

ist ...

as i recall i never had a problem with my secondaries  to charge most ANY CAP ... i have never held a ubc yet i can only imagine they will charge faster ...

ok so i have 30 1" gold mines ... ill just wind 11 turns bifillar on each ...  as a normal jt  no resistor .. or with a resistor honestly i dont care ...  i have 100 pots i was gonna use on the grow lights and such ... but  basically 30 bridges 30 2n 22222a hook em all up as 1 .. let them run  and pulse them ...   out put from all combine into the b cap ...

i will sell some some of my ring designs ...  if anyone cant built them and wants a unit ... let me know ...  you buy the materials .. and i build it its just that simple ... 

none the less many things work on teslas work ... lol   many things ... 

anyhow first thing i built when i started out was my TURBINE ...   and the n machine design ...  lol

over unity ... ?   i guess so ....   

william
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 07, 2009, 12:15:31 AM
Here is a good and simple design

I think 250 @26guage Primary

15 by 3 BC coils

These are approximate!  Good Voltage and easy design.
Stpru. I need measurements . Volts are good but the current is more important  .So when you  post and did experiment with a 1 ohm resistor in place across your output and take a current measurement and volts with the windings #,toroid type and transistor and input current  .this will indicate weather you have higher than the standard Jt using 2n2222a of mine  14 volts @5.5 ma is mine . we need higher !and remember the source should be an aa battery with the circuit drawing no more than 20ma . I guess this could be a bit higher if you use a D cell rechargeable . Thanks  a bunch!

@ist . these aint normal caps bro . you will see .I can charge anycap up with any jt secondary but not these . try and put a 1 ohn resistor across your output and read the milliamps across that . thanks  bro . If you can come up with half the shipping man i will give you a loan for the rest and you can pay me back later . You need your stuff !!
gadget 


Ps ./i am checking on all the parts and will try to put together the units as kits ,everything except the 650-f cap . I have  quite a few 1500farad left so this would be an option and once we nail this its possible lower ultracaps would work , maybe .   Time to fix supper . see you all later ..


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 08, 2009, 10:19:44 PM
Al:

I would consider Jeanna's coil for this maybe? (The same as the Jeanna's Light circuit)  At almost 1,500 volts the charge cycle would not take long at all on the b-cap.

Now this is what I have learned with mine so far.  At first, you think you can't feed 1,500 volts into the little 2.7 b-cap and in reality, maybe that is a bit too high, but you can send in a very large voltage signal from a JT that the b-caps "converts" for lack of a better term, into power/voltage via capacitance formulas.

So even though the 1,500 volts input has very little amperage, when that b-cap gets to 2.7 volts and cuts off the input signal, you will have a full cap.  I think this would happen very quickly too.

Anyway, my two cents.  There are other very good JT's out there with much lower outputs and they may be better for this application, I don't know for sure.  But, Godspeed on this project Al, I feel confident that something very good will come of this.

Bill

Hi pirate you mentioned 1500v on Jeanna light where is this schematic? Can you please lead me to it?
About that Ucap Gadgetmall did you find a way to charge it fast?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 08, 2009, 11:15:13 PM
Hi pirate you mentioned 1500v on Jeanna light where is this schematic? Can you please lead me to it?

Thanks

Hi guruji,
It is the plainest joule thief with a secondary circuit you can find.
I will post a drawing with interchangeable outputs.

The important parts are the
TIP3055 or TIP31C make the leap to much higher voltages with this big toroid.
So you have the toroid?
I am waiting for my trial samples so I can hopefully offer and get a range... more later.

Here is the general schematic.
After testing the jt circuit with the basic light in place, remove the led and use only the secondary.
You will need over 450 volts to light a fluoro tube. My 1400v was from a combination of tuning and parts.

I know you have made some of these, but I forget... where are you in the process?
Have you made a jtc with secondary that lights 6 to 12 leds in series?
That is always a good step anyway. It will never hurt to have a 6 to 12 led circuit around andit is good practice with the elements.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 09, 2009, 06:54:12 AM
I  have been thinking about  the control unit for  the  cap  charger

I  wonder  if  a  circuit  that will work at  low voltages is really needed.

We need something to  make sure the caps  don't overload .......and something to automate switching  the caps

It seems to me  that   when  the  cap we are charging  is low .......there is no need to do anything except  charge it up .   any  power  used in a controll circuit is wasted .

Once  the   cap we are charging  is  nearly full .....we  have around 2.5 V      is it hard to find  componets that will work  on 2.5V ?

It  seems to me that  we need something that works  like  the safty valve on a water heater .
The  safety valve on awater heater is   just  a  valve held closed by a spring .
If  the water presure get to high ....the sping can no longer hold the presure so the valve opens .

In our case  I think  we only need to  connect  the  gate and  source of  a mosfet 
If as  the  voltage  gets high enough the  MOSFET will start  conducting .
I see no reason that the power that " leaks"  out through  the mosfet can't  be used to power   some kind of switcing system 

One way that  this power could  be used is to  use  it to charge  a small supercap attached to  the  gate  of another mosfet 
It  wouldn't  tale  a very large super cap to   maintain  voltage on the gate of a mosfet long enough to charge  the Ultracap


Then there is the possibility  of putting 2 Ultracaps in series  and having 5 V to work  with


gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 09, 2009, 07:47:18 AM
@resonanceman,

Yes I agree.

If you look at page 39 in this thread then you will see that is what I have designed.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 09, 2009, 01:46:42 PM
Hi Jeanna thanks for response. Yes I did a bunch of JT now ;small and 1" too but it would be a good idea to try on a bigger one with those transistors as you said.
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 09, 2009, 07:40:18 PM
@resonanceman,

Yes I agree.

If you look at page 39 in this thread then you will see that is what I have designed.

Groundloop.



I read page 39   and I just read it again

I see 2 schematics  but no general explanation  of  what  the circuit does .

From what  you said on  page 39 it does not  look to me like   we are talking about doing the same thing .

Quote


If we use the +5 volt generated from the IC then it is just
enough to control a hexfet gate.


If  the  chip  will  run on 1.4 V  and   you will have 2.5 V in the cap  before  you need  to  switch caps  why do you need to control  a transistor  with  the 5V that the chip can make ?

Why not let  the switching circuit sleep  until  there is a preset voltage in  the cap .......then it can wake up   switch caps and go back to sleep .
A small  super cap could be charged on the each cycle to power  the  gates  of the  switching transistors


gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 09, 2009, 09:09:51 PM
@resonanceman,

The circuit will do the following:

The MAX856 is designed to run from a single 1,5 volt battery. This IC has a built
in detector that can detect a preset voltage level in the battery. The preset point
is set by using external resistors. This IC can also make a +5 (or 3,3) volt from
the input voltage. The low voltage detector output is a pull down transistor.
(Open collector output). This transistor can not handle great currents.

So what we do is running a pic mcu that can be triggered from this output. The pic
mcu also have an built in analog to digital converter. We use this converter to monitor
the voltage over the bcap. We need a voltage reference that is higher than the 1,5 volt
from the input battery since the bcap can reach a higher voltage than the input AA cell.

We use two powerful transistors to switch both the voltage feed back to the AA battery and
to the external load. The current through those transistors will be restricted by using pulse
width modulation. These hexfet transistor need +5 volt at the gate to trigger on.

The pic mcu will run slow on an internal oscillator. The mcu will also sleep between
operations and will wake up on interrupts from the low voltage detector and from the
a/d converter. This will ensure that the mcu uses minimum current from the AA battery.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 09, 2009, 10:45:53 PM
@resonanceman,

The circuit will do the following:

The MAX856 is designed to run from a single 1,5 volt battery. This IC has a built
in detector that can detect a preset voltage level in the battery. The preset point
is set by using external resistors. This IC can also make a +5 (or 3,3) volt from
the input voltage. The low voltage detector output is a pull down transistor.
(Open collector output). This transistor can not handle great currents.

So what we do is running a pic mcu that can be triggered from this output. The pic
mcu also have an built in analog to digital converter. We use this converter to monitor
the voltage over the bcap. We need a voltage reference that is higher than the 1,5 volt
from the input battery since the bcap can reach a higher voltage than the input AA cell.

We use two powerful transistors to switch both the voltage feed back to the AA battery and
to the external load. The current through those transistors will be restricted by using pulse
width modulation. These hexfet transistor need +5 volt at the gate to trigger on.

The pic mcu will run slow on an internal oscillator. The mcu will also sleep between
operations and will wake up on interrupts from the low voltage detector and from the
a/d converter. This will ensure that the mcu uses minimum current from the AA battery.

Groundloop.

Groundloop

Thank   you for the excellent explanation  of what  your circuit  does  .


gary   

 

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 10, 2009, 12:26:00 AM
Has anyone  bought  some 0W48740TC toroids ?

I have heard that a few people have got samples already .

I was going to order some today .

It turns out that Magnetics  has a minumum  of $25000.
They  do have  distributers  that sell  small quantities .
They  have a place on their  website that  searches  for  a part  in their  distributor inventories .
The largest  W core  I  have found  so far is 85.7 mm  OD 

The free samples  are great .......but they are kind of a dead end  if you want to make more than 1 or 2


gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 10, 2009, 12:41:58 AM
Gary:

I got my 4 the other day of the part number you posted.  Their distributors have a much lower minimum so these appear to be available.  I am using two of them stacked together on my Jeanna Light replication.  Evidently, we can get more "samples" after a week's time or so.  I really think that if I asked for 10 of them, they would have sent 10.  I just didn't want to be greedy since they were free and all and I actually would have preferred to pay for them but, as you said with their minimums, it is not easy.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 10, 2009, 02:42:29 AM
Gary:

I got my 4 the other day of the part number you posted.  Their distributors have a much lower minimum so these appear to be available.  I am using two of them stacked together on my Jeanna Light replication.  Evidently, we can get more "samples" after a week's time or so.  I really think that if I asked for 10 of them, they would have sent 10.  I just didn't want to be greedy since they were free and all and I actually would have preferred to pay for them but, as you said with their minimums, it is not easy.

Bill

I guess  you  got  your sample  cores from  Magnetics   ...... not from one of their  distributors .
I spent  a good share of the day reaserching  what is  available .   

I put in a price  request for  the largest  one  I found  in  listed as  being  stocked by  a distributor .
3.3 in ......... we  see what happens


gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 10, 2009, 03:09:53 AM
Has anyone  bought  some 0W48740TC toroids ?
....

It turns out that Magnetics  has a minumum  of $25000.
They  do have  distributers  that sell  small quantities .
.....
The largest  W core  I  have found  so far is 85.7 mm  OD 

The free samples  are great .......but they are kind of a dead end  if you want to make more than 1 or 2
Gary,
Yes, you are right about the dead end part.

That 0W48740TC  is the one I used.
I will be getting a J type to be sure the one I used was a W
I am also getting 2 that are 2.5 inches of the same 2  types to see if a smaller radius will be good enough for a cfl.

There is a distributor who sells with a $30 order size in Califurnia.
25,000 wow that is really high.
So, if one of us can buy from the distributor and sell to the rest of the joule thievers, it will be a good market.
I got a per piece price from the distributor of 2 cents to 2 dollars which means this would get a retail price of $4 or $5 plus shipping for the biggo.
 I paid $3.50 plus shipping for mine from allelectronics, and 4 or 5 plus shipping is reasonable if someone wants to do this.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: WattBuilder on December 10, 2009, 06:27:17 AM
Hi,

Here’s a picture of my toroids that just came in today.
I may decide to use them for my loop back circuit or just make a joule thief attached to the turbine. I will still need to think it through before I get to that point.

Howard



Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 10, 2009, 03:49:21 PM
Hi,

Here’s a picture of my toroids that just came in today.
I may decide to use them for my loop back circuit or just make a joule thief attached to the turbine. I will still need to think it through before I get to that point.

Howard
Are These From Mag-inc samples also . I have got 4 jeanna core and they are super . I sent one to a good friend here on the internet for a Christmas present . As a matter of fact i sent quite a few packages out , more than i have bought for my own family  so far ! Just call me Santa Clause and I do love giving and it helps me get into the Spirit of Christmas . Speaking of which is only a wisp away so i got to get busy . i havent even put up the tree yet . The Yard Is UNDER WATER as with the Earthbatteries . 0  output . shorted . My drive way is now a pond /mud hole . you can imagine what my new White truck looks like :)

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 10, 2009, 04:02:54 PM
your new white truck stuck in the mud ...  my old blue car stuck in the snow ...

and not 2 nickels to rubb togather ... same old boring game ... 

and im gonna GET REALLY PISSED OFF SOON... TAKE IT AS YOUR WARNING!

none the less my shift works as i said it did ...

build it a stupid simple way ... BUILD IT THE MOST COMPLACATED WAY ...

i dont care ...

it is STILL MY WORK THANK YOU ...

CAN THE GUY WITH LESS THAN 2 NICKELS EVER GET ANYTHING FOR ALL HIS HARD WORK ......

WHAT DO I NEED TO MAKE A COIL THAT SHOOTS LIGHTNING TO GET 10 CENTS!


TIME TO COUGH UP SOME DOW!

IM CALLING RADIO STATIONS NEWS CREWS AND ITS GONNA ROLL YOUR PLANET!


FOR QUITE A NUMBER OF YEARS I SAY THE SAME SH!FT ...  I LEARNED  MANY !

THANK YOU !

perhaps you know my actions around here effect this ENTIRE WORLD TO WICH EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU LIVE...

BELEAVE IT OR NOT ... I COULD CARE LESS ... MY FACTS SPEEK FOR THEM SELVS..

END OF RANT !    AND DONE WITH BEING POOR ...

WIZE UP B4 I DO IT TO YOU !

ps where does santa live .....  it aint the south pole ...  ist rolls his eyes .....

btw i refer to my work as mine ... why ?   cuz it is .. lol  i told you this came from sm wich came from tesla wich came from egypt...  wich CAME FROM WHAT HU-MANS CALL GODS...  RA! the god of the SUN!  IS ME .... i was the first to come to this conculsion with out the aid of higher dementional tools ...

many already know WHO IM AM ... SILLY HUMANS ... lol   why CAN I SPEEK OF MY WORK    ?

OTHER WIZE.....  and why do they take pictures away i know ...  why does this site go off line ...

why do i arive at answers always miles ahead ... sheesh  it is me it is in my name it is in my blood it is in my birth date it is in my dna ... it is even in MY SKIN UNDER MY RIGHT EYE ...

hummmmm

MY MISTERY MISS IS NONE OTHER THAN ISIS   

so how the hell does it all work ?  how the hell should i know ... ?  all i know is it does NOT WORK WELL THE WAY IT IS ......

think bout that for a bit..............
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 10, 2009, 06:45:22 PM
IST Get Your SH!FT in to gear ! Ask mrmag to help you .get this stuff before the post offce shuts down for the holidays man ! I don't care how you do it just DOIT !! What happened to Group Efforts dude ? Its not all yours  or mine you know ! Lay that pipe down before santa slaps you !  ;D ;D ;D Just kidding .. Getting giddy cause the others are starting to sweat . And i know you will build a bigger bettr one. Can't wait much longer though..

Gadget ..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 10, 2009, 06:57:36 PM
IST Get Your SH!FT in to gear ! Ask mrmag to help you .get this stuff before the post offce shuts down for the holidays man ! I don't care how you do it just DOIT !! What happened to Group Efforts dude ? Its not all yours  or mine you know ! Lay that pipe down before santa slaps you !  ;D ;D ;D Just kidding .. Getting giddy cause the others are starting to sweat . And i know you will build a bigger bettr one. Can't wait much longer though..

Gadget ..

silly

your ALL COMEING TO MY SIDE OF THE FENCE ...

w

it is our work .. each and everyones ...   

THIS IS NOT THE WORK OF HUMANS... 
a human runs off and trys to get a pattend and get rich ...  i just want to build more shift .... thats all  maybe eat 3 times a day ...  insted of 1 ...  but im not worried ...  humans were always ment to learn the truth ... 

btw it is clear why my stuff isint here yet ..   maybe i come up with a few more new things ...  if you have 4th viewing .. pehaps they see this ..  who khows how much has been learned on planet earth ..

i have no idea...   all i know is since i cant build things i share them so everyone can learn  then we can find the true truth ...  : )
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 10, 2009, 10:38:45 PM
Hi IST with those words you always remind me about a friend of mine who always tell me that he's an alien and has past experiences driving a flying saucer ;D. This guy sometimes I believe him cause he has alot of intiution.
Ok maybe we all are we don't belong to this earth we have to leave her someday.
Wish you Happy Christmas to all a bit early but the atmosphere of Christmas is very nice.
 :)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 10, 2009, 11:21:35 PM
I have been thinking about  what we can do  to make a stronger JT
It looks like the  supply of the very large toroids  is  going to be very limited .

I have been looking for ways  smaller toroids can be used in place of larger ones .


I have came up with this so far .

I call it  a Candy Cane  JT .......because he windings spiral around the core like the stripes on a Candy Cane .


This is a first test . From  what I have learned  with  this ......if I was  going for max voltage I think I would mostly fill  each toroid  with a large winding  then  use an external winding as primary .


I am not  trying for  high voltage  at this time .    I am trying to find a good Ultracap charger .

I think my next test will be  large windings on the  toroids ....but  I will  try those large windings  as primarys .     
I will need  larger  toroids ..because I would expect to need  quite a few external  windings ....

8  5 for $1 toroids
Blue wire 5 wraps pertproid
Oarnge wire 3 wraps per toroid
Green wire 1 wrap per toroid

All wire  twisted pair from Cat5 cable
1 AA battery  used for all readings
All secondary readings were taken  with  both  wires in parrallel.   If  the wires of the pairs  were  put in series the voltages would be close to double these readings 

Orange  as primary     13.8 V on  blue  1,7 V on green ...... external grren winding  11.6 V  .....external orange 5.6 V

Blue as primary ......  6.6 V on orange      1.5 on green ........ external green winding 7.9 V  .... external.orange 2.2 V

Green as primary ..... 14.8 V on blue   14.0 on orange  ........ external green winding 24 V ......external orannge 13 V



External green as primary ..... External orange 1.9 V.......  green 2.3 V.....  orange 5.8 V ....... blue 8.6 V

External  orange as primary  ...  External green 20 V  ......green 2V .......orange 12.4 V  ...... blue 18 V 

I did not measure the  current  of  the windings
I find  that  the readings of a normal DMM  are not accurate at all with JTs

I will see what I can get it to do later 



gary 


 

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 10, 2009, 11:26:14 PM
this is awesome ... as usual gary!

: )

can you post a picture ... i will build it ... i have a bunch of those laying round ..

ist!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 10, 2009, 11:37:59 PM
Hi IST with those words you always remind me about a friend of mine who always tell me that he's an alien and has past experiences driving a flying saucer ;D. This guy sometimes I believe him cause he has alot of intiution.
Ok maybe we all are we don't belong to this earth we have to leave her someday.
Wish you Happy Christmas to all a bit early but the atmosphere of Christmas is very nice.
 :)

thank you guruji

merry christmas to you and yours!

i have no memeries of crazy things ... but things fall into my lap for unexplained reasons ... from all over ... it is and was odd and hard for me to come to terms and proceed to say things i have ... but in all honesty ... i dont see how it is any other way ...  when i look back on events in my life ... things become clear ...  its no ego thing its not a money thing ...  i think it is fate ...  or perhaps the DEVINE PLAN ... like i said i cant and never will figure it all out alone ...

peace!

william
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: WattBuilder on December 10, 2009, 11:53:21 PM
Gadgetmall,

Yes, I got these from Magnetics Inc. they are part# ZW49740TC and OP49920UC

Mud on a new truck sounds like a good old southern style way of breaking it in.    ;)    ;D

Howard 



Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 12:38:37 AM
Gadgetmall,

Yes, I got these from Magnetics Inc. they are part# ZW49740TC and OP49920UC

Mud on a new truck sounds like a good old southern style way of breaking it in.    ;)    ;D

Howard
I call it new .It was the very first expensive thing i every bought new In 2006 :) I still owe 11,000 on it paying 450 a month . sheeeh ..The rain , it rained for week . the ground is saturated and the ditches are full and the water isnt going no where . What was a dust bowl for tha past two years is now a lake and i understand we are in for a nice winter  this year, I love Snow . It rarly comes anymore . the last BIG snow .well the only BIG snow was in 1985 It snowed 8 feet ,all the way past the windows ,the cars , the door . we were insulated for sure . It took a few days to get the door open a foot and then the snow fell in the house . FUN FUN FUN . I have a liitl boy then ,he was in his underware ,nothing else . and i said you want me to throw you in that do you and he yep . so i chunked him as far as i could and he landed in a cloud of Glory . It was fun . My Asia was alsom born on a Snow day and it snowed for the next three years after and then no snow for almost 4 years . It teased us two years ago  it started to sprinkle snow flakes and my daugher could nbot wait to get in it . Just as soon as we saw a few flakes it stopped .....and she cried so hard  . it broke my heart . I hope it snows ..We miss it . Well enuff remanissance  / .

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 12:48:57 AM
you shoulnt have thrown him in so far ... its cold in there i bet!

lol

hope you helped to digg him out lol

peace ...   you may just get your snow ...  : )

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 11, 2009, 12:49:46 AM
Gary:

The large toroids are not in short supply.  We can get all we want or need.  Jeanna found a distributor that asks only a $30 minimum per order.  @ around $2/toroid, that's 15 of them.  We can pool a few folks together if that is too many for what a person needs.  To me, that is cheap per toroid and they can handle orders of thousands of parts if we need them. These are the same toroids from the same maker.

Since I am using them 2 at a time, I will need to get more of them soon.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 12:59:50 AM
this is wonderful bill!


can you post a pic of a dubble core unit ...

im gonna find some money some how .... 

and im a get a tonne of em ...  ill make em piss fire ..

ist!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 11, 2009, 01:24:53 AM
Here are some photos.  Sorry for the blurr, I was in a hurry as I am still trying to get this done.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on December 11, 2009, 02:18:38 AM
Wow Pirate that a nice build!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 02:51:00 AM
Hi all
I am posting the pix for Gary...
So, here is his text:


I have been thinking about  what we can do  to make a stronger JT
It looks like the  supply of the very large toroids  is  going to be very limited .

I have been looking for ways  smaller toroids can be used in place of larger ones .


I have came up with this so far .

I call it  a Candy Cane  JT .......because the windings spiral around the core like the stripes on a Candy Cane .


This is a first test . From  what I have learned  with  this ......if I was  going for max voltage I think I would mostly fill  each toroid  with a large winding  then  use an external winding as primary .


I am not  trying for  high voltage  at this time .    I am trying to find a good Ultracap charger .

I think my next test will be  large windings on the  toroids ....but  I will  try those large windings  as primarys .     
I will need  larger  toroids ..because I would expect to need  quite a few external  windings ....

8  5 for $1 toroids
Blue wire 5 wraps per toroid
Orange wire 3 wraps per toroid
Green wire 1 wrap per toroid

All wire  twisted pair from Cat5 cable
1 AA battery  used for all readings
All secondary readings were taken  with  both  wires in parallel.   If  the wires of the pairs  were  put in series the voltages would be close to double these readings 

Orange  as primary     13.8 V on  blue  1,7 V on green ...... external green winding  11.6 V  .....external orange 5.6 V

Blue as primary ......  6.6 V on orange      1.5 on green ........ external green winding 7.9 V  .... external.orange 2.2 V

Green as primary ..... 14.8 V on blue   14.0 on orange  ........ external green winding 24 V ......external orange 13 V



External green as primary ..... External orange 1.9 V.......  green 2.3 V.....  orange 5.8 V ....... blue 8.6 V

External  orange as primary  ...  External green 20 V  ......green 2V .......orange 12.4 V  ...... blue 18 V 

I did not measure the  current  of  the windings
I find  that  the readings of a normal DMM  are not accurate at all with JTs

I will see what I can get it to do later 



gary
now here are the pix that go along.
jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 02:56:23 AM
Wow Bill,
It sure is beautiful.


Is the primary on or are you putting it on at the end?

Jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 11, 2009, 03:08:44 AM
stprue:

Thanks.  Well it will be nice....only if it works, ha ha.

Jeanna:

No, I have to wind the 3 turns and the 13 turns yet.  I had some trouble fitting all of this into that small box and I had to get a little creative here.  I wanted to get the 300 plus turns done first so, the rest should be easy.  (should)

IF it works, I will make a decent video of the device.  The good news is that I have a 20 ohm rheostat on the plus supply coming from the battery like Lidmotor did and I also have a 1k, 15 turn adjustable resistor going to the base so I should be able to tune in to make up the difference of adding all that extra wire due to the double stacked toroid arrangement.  Only time will tell.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 03:10:15 AM
Gary:

The large toroids are not in short supply.  We can get all we want or need.  Jeanna found a distributor that asks only a $30 minimum per order.  @ around $2/toroid, that's 15 of them.  We can pool a few folks together if that is too many for what a person needs.  To me, that is cheap per toroid and they can handle orders of thousands of parts if we need them. These are the same toroids from the same maker.

Since I am using them 2 at a time, I will need to get more of them soon.

Bill

Bill

If  you go to the Magnetics website and  click on  the  Distributor  Inventory button  ( it is 2 buttons above the order samples button ) 
Then  type  the  number for  your  toroid in  49740 will do
You  will find that  no   distributors in the world  have that toroid in stock .
If  you check the next 5 largest  toriods listed   you  will get similar  results .
The largest toroid  available  through  distributors of Magnetics  is 48613   85.7 MM
Not  small but  not near 140 mm  I do not  remember  the exaact numbers but I think there are a few thousand  in stock around  the world .

This is what  I mean by short supply .

Plus ...... if the powers that be  tried to stop  us ......preventing us from getting large toroids would  be  relatively  easy for them .



gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 11, 2009, 03:17:47 AM
Gary:

Talk to Jeanna as she obtained a quote from a CA distributor on the exact toroids I just received as free samples. (OW48613TC)  These are 3.375" OD.  The girl I spoke to at magnetics said they had thousands of these in stock and I can get as many as I need, I just have to go through a distributor or, order more through the free sample program.

Maybe after Christmas, I can put up the minimum order and then make them available to the folks here as long as my shipping costs and expenses are covered, or anyone else can. 

Check with Jeanna to make sure I did not misunderstand what she said but I believe this info is correct.

Bill     PS  I told them I wanted these for a transformer, I did NOT mention the word Joule Thief or energy experiments to her.  This may make a difference.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 03:27:23 AM
Gary and Bill and everybody,

The one that distributors around the world have IS the one I got and Bill got and you are the wattbuilder is the only one with the bigger one.

EDIT
About the code numbers
After the 4 which is all ferrite types
 the first 2 numbers are the OD on mm.
So 86 is the 85.7mm toroid
The next are the height
so ending in 04 is 4mm.
TC means toroidal core
The W or J or other thing in that second place is the material
The first letter is the coating and O is no coating
It is in the pdf on every other page where it says how to order.

I hope this helps a little. Please copy this so you will have it later when you want to make an order.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 03:28:12 AM
this is awesome ... as usual gary!

: )

can you post a picture ... i will build it ... i have a bunch of those laying round ..

ist!

IST

I tried to  add some pictures ......I kept  timing out

I  also tried  emailing  them  to Jeanna ......hopefully she  will  post them for me


I think it is working out  really well.

On my 3rd test  coil   I  hooked it up .... adjusted the pot  to give me  2.5 V  across  the bridge  without the cap hooked up ........then I connected the cap .
Last time I checked it was  going up  .0018 per min

I am making  a bigger coil right now ...... 

gary 

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 03:36:16 AM
I did gary... look up about 6 posts by now. ;D

Please explain how you wired them in parallel.
If I did that there would be wire ends everywhere.

Or,
Do you mean that in the end, you put the wires together all wires at one end together and all wires at the other end together?

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 04:17:25 AM
IST

I tried to  add some pictures ......I kept  timing out

I  also tried  emailing  them  to Jeanna ......hopefully she  will  post them for me


I think it is working out  really well.

On my 3rd test  coil   I  hooked it up .... adjusted the pot  to give me  2.5 V  across  the bridge  without the cap hooked up ........then I connected the cap .
Last time I checked it was  going up  .0018 per min

I am making  a bigger coil right now ...... 

gary
Gary you get your bcap ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 04:22:12 AM
Gary:

Talk to Jeanna as she obtained a quote from a CA distributor on the exact toroids I just received as free samples. (OW48613TC)  These are 3.375" OD.  The girl I spoke to at magnetics said they had thousands of these in stock and I can get as many as I need, I just have to go through a distributor or, order more through the free sample program.

Maybe after Christmas, I can put up the minimum order and then make them available to the folks here as long as my shipping costs and expenses are covered, or anyone else can. 

Check with Jeanna to make sure I did not misunderstand what she said but I believe this info is correct.

Bill     PS  I told them I wanted these for a transformer, I did NOT mention the word Joule Thief or energy experiments to her.  This may make a difference.
Bill I got the big 140 inch from Magnetics . biggest one they had ., Its killer . 6 winds and one turn primary lights up leds In fact it is so strong i just burned out three 2n3904's and two bright leds. Good god . 6 turns is too many appearently . Burning them up on a normal jt side . whats with this  ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 04:29:57 AM
I did gary... look up about 6 posts by now. ;D

Please explain how you wired them in parallel.
If I did that there would be wire ends everywhere.

Or,
Do you mean that in the end, you put the wires together all wires at one end together and all wires at the other end together?

jeanna

Jeanna

Did I say I wired  all the toroids in parrallel ?
I didn't mean that
The  toroids  are in series .
The  blue  green and orange wires are all  single pieces  in the first picture .

I think what I meant to say is that when I took volltage readings  I read  both  conductors of each  twisted pair  ..... I could  have left them  connected in series  ......center taped ....as I  had them to use them as a  primary

If you look at the  first picture  you can see pretty much how I did it

I did all 3 windings on the  first  toroid .......then I put all the wires through the next  toroid .
I then wound the blue wire  because it has more windings .......then the orange  then the green 
the  green I had to pretty much  work it through the crack  between the toroids ....it is  getting pretty tight  by then .

For some  it might be easier  to wind the toroids  separately  then  sollder them together ..... for me it is easier   to wind  them all  together .


The  one in the 3rd picture  has been doing pretty well ........  It is at 1.69V now ......it has averaged  .0156V a min over the last 2 hours .

I am not going to let it  go much longer ......I am almost done with my next version .

gary   
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 04:34:52 AM
Gary you get your bcap ?

Gadget 

Yes I got  them

I have been working on finding better ways to charge them for a few days now

gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 05:14:51 AM
Gadget 

Yes I got  them

I have been working on finding better ways to charge them for a few days now

gary
I think i just found it . The BIG 140 MM  is KILLER .. I can hear the LED SING !!!! I cant hear high pitched any more BUT I HEAR THIS ONE SINGING !! wow . Its strong as hell I have burned out 5 transistor sand 4 leds in the last 20 mins on n AA batter . I am now usig a 2n3055 and it sings ! massive MAs / Ill get back with you .Got to play with thisone . ITs a w from mag-inc . I ordered two and they only had One left  :(  Charged me an extra 6 bucks from spain on top of 19 dollars ups for just that one . This thing lights from the little secondary  and between base and collector and between emmiter and collector atthe same time !
Unreal  the leds are full bright and about to blow almost  but what amazingis its lighting from the base to collector  and also the normal emmiter  to collector . unusual and i hear them also that is a first for me .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 05:33:32 AM
I think i just found it . The BIG 140 MM  is KILLER .. I can hear the LED SING !!!! I cant hear high pitched any more BUT I HEAR THIS ONE SINGING !! wow . Its strong as hell I have burned out 5 transistor sand 4 leds in the last 20 mins on n AA batter . I am now usig a 2n3055 and it sings ! massive MAs / Ill get back with you .Got to play with thisone . ITs a w from mag-inc . I ordered two and they only had One left  :(  Charged me an extra 6 bucks from spain on top of 19 dollars ups for just that one .
Um gadget, if you can run a cfl it makes over 450 volts.
When the frequency goes down 2 things happen
1- the volts go up
and
2-  ;D You can hear it!

So, if you don't try a cfl first, you should use 20 leds IN SERIES or you will pop them one at a time!

BRAVO.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 05:50:41 AM
I am sure this one will produce high volts . I have a 6 turn primary and 7 turn secondary . Its lighting up 25 leds in parallel on the secondary and two on the transistor one  BC led  and one CE all at the same time . have you ever seen one light from both  bc and ce full bright from an AA battery ? and its the first Jt i heard . My daughter can hear every one i made from clear across the room . She says What is that noise  and finds a tini tiny little toroid  bead and says its loud to her . I can't hear them at all.

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 06:01:40 AM
This is my 4th version ready for testing

It is  3 of what Jeanna calls  bad blue  toroids .

I am pretty sure that these toroids are designed to be chokes

I have 25 wraps around each  toroid all in the same  direction   

The  idea is to make  a bunch of magnetic flux ......then  catch  as much as possible  with  an external  secondary .   
The  primary is huge ..... so  it  should  have a pretty good voltage from fluback all by itself .
The  secondary  is  used to step  down  the  primary .....

This  design  is intended  as a work around  for  when  really big toroids are not available .
anyone  that has  a big  toroid can make an equivelent  circuit by  winding the biggest   primary they can .......then tuning the secondary to get   just a few   volts .

Ideally  I would  like to have a system  tuned to  2.5 V


gary


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 06:09:43 AM
So Gary,
Will you be connecting the end of one wire with the beginning of the other to make it a JT primary?

I am confused right now, because I do not understand where the secondary will be?
Is the outside secondary going to be sharing a little of the cores of these? I think it must, mustn't it?
It is a similar question I have with my conical wound secondary... or whatever that is.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 06:17:30 AM
Here are some photos.  Sorry for the blurr, I was in a hurry as I am still trying to get this done.

Bill

i say i say .... damm!   NICE UNIT!

WILLIAM

i cant keep up

LOL  let her RIP!

THIS IS TOTALLY AWESOME

ILL tell ya why there no w core 140mm cuz mike bought them all ... i sent him this ring a long time ago to NEW YORK IT IS ALL POSTED IN THE JT THRED!  he still never paid 1 dime for my materials to build it ..  ... and so they steal!!!

so i build it better ... WAY THE HELL BETTER !  : )
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 06:31:37 AM
Bill

If  you go to the Magnetics website and  click on  the  Distributor  Inventory button  ( it is 2 buttons above the order samples button ) 
Then  type  the  number for  your  toroid in  49740 will do
You  will find that  no   distributors in the world  have that toroid in stock .
If  you check the next 5 largest  toriods listed   you  will get similar  results .
The largest toroid  available  through  distributors of Magnetics  is 48613   85.7 MM
Not  small but  not near 140 mm  I do not  remember  the exaact numbers but I think there are a few thousand  in stock around  the world .

This is what  I mean by short supply .

Plus ...... if the powers that be  tried to stop  us ......preventing us from getting large toroids would  be  relatively  easy for them .



gary

gary !!

what a wicket idea!

that looks darn kool   just wild ..  i have to build that!  that is simply too kool

w

ps this quote goes with my last responce why there no W core 140 mm cores as mike sent me that core to build it on ... cheep guy probally got a sample payed the shipping got the teck for free ... too bad ... i guess he never knew ... reality is i can tune TO ANY CORE... : )
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 06:52:00 AM
I am sure this one will produce high volts . I have a 6 turn primary and 7 turn secondary . Its lighting up 25 leds in parallel on the secondary and two on the transistor one  BC led  and one CE all at the same time . have you ever seen one light from both  bc and ce full bright from an AA battery ?

gadget

lol

wonderful


im gonna unwind my 808 and play too!!  lol

ist!

sorry for all the post i just got a little spun ...  lol  tommorow i will make a few coils on the W 140mm
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 11, 2009, 07:42:33 AM
IST:

Thanks man.  I am still working on it though.  I hope it works.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 08:03:13 AM
So Gary,
Will you be connecting the end of one wire with the beginning of the other to make it a JT primary?

I am confused right now, because I do not understand where the secondary will be?
Is the outside secondary going to be sharing a little of the cores of these? I think it must, mustn't it?
It is a similar question I have with my conical wound secondary... or whatever that is.

jeanna


Jeanna

Yes   I will be connecting  one start end  with the other finishing end  ....... standard  bifilar  JT conncetions .

WIth this configuation  if I was going for  high volts  I would  use the  external  windings  as  the primary  .

I am  going  for  MAX current  this time .
So  I  am trying to get the most volts I can from  flyback in the primary .
SO  I am using the  stack of  toroids as primary .

Once  I get my primary  wound   and  get  a good voltage from it   I  then  go to the  external windings ........the secondary
I  then tune the secondary  to get  the required  output voltage  at  the desired power level .
My  goal  is to have   2.5 V across a small cap  and bridge when I am done .
 
I want to have all the higher  voltage  transformed  into current .........except for 2.5 V

I can then replace the small cap with my Ultracap and I am ready to go .


Once  it is set ..... I should  be able to let it run with no risk of blowing a cap 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way .......   the bad blues are still bad .   I could not  get any real voltage out of them even with  25 winds per toroid


gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 11, 2009, 10:14:57 AM
Hey, it works!!

I still have some adjustments to make and then I will do a video.  I am using a D cell in these photos but, the cool thing about my magnetic battery holder is that it will work with AAA, AA, C or D cells with no adjustments needed. It is not as bright as I had hoped but, since I used 2 toroids I may have to adjust the primary winding numbers a bit.  Jeanna told me to bench test this first before I put it in the box in case I had to change a few things but did I listen?  No.  Oh well.  I think I can improve upon my light output if I mess with it some.

My camera is still not clear and I need to look into why that is.  Anyway, more later.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 12:59:04 PM

Jeanna

Yes   I will be connecting  one start end  with the other finishing end  ....... standard  bifilar  JT conncetions .

WIth this configuation  if I was going for  high volts  I would  use the  external  windings  as  the primary  .

I am  going  for  MAX current  this time .
So  I  am trying to get the most volts I can from  flyback in the primary .
SO  I am using the  stack of  toroids as primary .

Once  I get my primary  wound   and  get  a good voltage from it   I  then  go to the  external windings ........the secondary
I  then tune the secondary  to get  the required  output voltage  at  the desired power level .
My  goal  is to have   2.5 V across a small cap  and bridge when I am done .
 
I want to have all the higher  voltage  transformed  into current .........except for 2.5 V

I can then replace the small cap with my Ultracap and I am ready to go .


Once  it is set ..... I should  be able to let it run with no risk of blowing a cap 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way .......   the bad blues are still bad .   I could not  get any real voltage out of them even with  25 winds per toroid


gary
Gary  I had some bad blue also . a magnet would not stick to them  and they were like made of alu or something else . . Good job shooting for max current but do not over saturate you transistor or you waste valuable battery current

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 01:02:46 PM
Hey, it works!!

I still have some adjustments to make and then I will do a video.  I am using a D cell in these photos but, the cool thing about my magnetic battery holder is that it will work with AAA, AA, C or D cells with no adjustments needed. It is not as bright as I had hoped but, since I used 2 toroids I may have to adjust the primary winding numbers a bit.  Jeanna told me to bench test this first before I put it in the box in case I had to change a few things but did I listen?  No.  Oh well.  I think I can improve upon my light output if I mess with it some.

My camera is still not clear and I need to look into why that is.  Anyway, more later.

Bill
Hey !! Allright this is a nice setup . I really like those boxes also . the closest  thing i have seen are expensive cigar box full of expensive cigars . over a hundred bucks so i won't go there . The light looks good . and i like the poor mans battery holder It's high tech !

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 04:05:16 PM
***DELETED*** Information in this thread already .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 11, 2009, 04:08:32 PM
Gary  I had some bad blue also . a magnet would not stick to them  and they were like made of alu or something else . . Good job shooting for max current but do not over saturate you transistor or you waste valuable battery current

gadget

Gadget 

I  had not thought to check the blue  toroids with a magnet
The magnet  does stick .....but just barely
I have no idea what they are made of.
If they were aluminum the magnet would  not stick  at all
They also seem a little  hard for  aluminum

Quote

I  then tune the secondary  to get  the required  output voltage  at  the desired power level .


I was thinking  about  the  current when I wrote that post ........maybe  I should  have  said at the desired current level .......but  power seemed like  a more accurate choice.



Your  big toroid looks really good .............but I would like to see you put about  a half pound more  wire on  your primary . 
More  wraps  will make more flux with the same power ....... the  toroid can  handle  the  power ......and  you have lots  free space left on the toroid  .

Scale it up!!!!!!!.

I say fill up that space ......then fasten your seatbelt ....... you aint seen nothin yet

:)

gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 11, 2009, 06:53:39 PM
Albert,

Mail me your JT drawing in a bigger size that was in your document.
I will update the word document and mail it back to you.

I will also need a nice picture of the JT you will use in this project.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 07:37:30 PM
@Gary,
Thanks, I will stand by and watch.
I am not clear how you are using the external thing and how it is called a secondary if it is external??


Hey, it works!!


... magnetic battery holder is that it will work with AAA, AA, C or D cells with no adjustments needed. It is not as bright as I had hoped but, since I used 2 toroids I may have to adjust the primary winding numbers a bit.

Nice, Bill.
I like the magnet idea.
I wonder what it does to the juice?
I wonder if it improves it?

If I get the chance today, I will try to take an induction test on 2 toroids stacked. This could help.
The trouble is I have 1 without windings, but the other 2 are already wound.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 08:15:57 PM
@Gary,
Thanks, I will stand by and watch.
I am not clear how you are using the external thing and how it is called a secondary if it is external??

Nice, Bill.
I like the magnet idea.
I wonder what it does to the juice?
I wonder if it improves it?

If I get the chance today, I will try to take an induction test on 2 toroids stacked. This could help.
The trouble is I have 1 without windings, but the other 2 are already wound.

jeanna

the external secondary ...  this is your load in a jt ...lol  the led ... lol

you can chain them toagther as  MY CASCADE AMP STYLE UNIT ...  hummmm

dont close the loop  ..  SOME SAY IT GOES TIC TIC BANG ..LOL

ist!

this is how this one works ... insted of the led or cap or battery ...  srtight run through with a fet ...

next coil is tuned to the FREQ OF THE JT...  the jt it rings the big coil ...  the second sw ... opens and closes the door as desired by freq genny

hehehehe

B T OVERDRIVE!   ...     YOU AINT SEEN NUTTIN YET!   BBBBBB  BABY .... YOU JUST AINT SEEN NUTTIN YET!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7miRCLeFSJo

thank you
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 11, 2009, 09:08:07 PM
IST,

The video link is incomplete. Please fix it!

Quote
the external secondary ...  this is your load in a jt ...lol  the led ... lol

you can chain them toagther as  MY CASCADE AMP STYLE UNIT ...  hummmm

I am asking where it is wrapped to the toroid of the primary.
It is only a secondary if the wires go around some of the same core that the primary is around.

That was my question.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 11, 2009, 09:18:12 PM
it is repaired .. that was odd ...

anyhow .. looks like garys secondary is feed back ... 

perhaps ...

ist
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 10:11:19 PM
Albert,

Mail me your JT drawing in a bigger size that was in your document.
I will update the word document and mail it back to you.

Alex.
Done . I have a zoom button so it ZOOMs right in on that little pic . I could not for the life of me figure out how to enlarge that dang tinycad drawing with the information in the bottom right SOO i just sent you the diagram .

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 12, 2009, 04:32:30 AM
@Gary,
Thanks, I will stand by and watch.
I am not clear how you are using the external thing and how it is called a secondary if it is external??



Jeanna

Look at the  the 2 first pictures  you posted for me.

The  first one is called  Candy Cane
The second one  is called Candy Cane2
The only difference in the coil is the 2 extra windings that I added  AFTER all the other windings  were done ........and after I had  written down  all the voltages I  had got  from the original  windings  .

What wouldl you call  these new windings ?
I called them external  .....because they are external to the original  windings and core

In the 3rd picture   you will see a simplified  version  ......it only has  2 windings ........the primary is  a brown and white twisted pair ... it spans several toroids . .
The  secondary   is the orange wire  that I called  external 
I did not have enough  space in the  center to add more  wire to the secondary  .......a bigger  toroid is needed


hope that this helps


gary   


IST  no feedback ........yet
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on December 12, 2009, 06:37:59 AM
Thanks Gary.
I guess it is just called the secondary. That is unless it is the one that is connected to the transistor which would make it the primary.
I believe that the secondary is what it is even though it encompasses all those toroids.

My conical is not as much a secondary as it is another coil in series, because it only has a few wires wrapped around the toroid, and the rest are going off to who knows where as a 2 wire cone.

Both of these are pushing the boundaries of our definitions and I want to stay on top of them, because I know I will get confused and eventually lost if I don't.
So, thanks for the explanation.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 12, 2009, 06:58:33 PM


Both of these are pushing the boundaries of our definitions and I want to stay on top of them, because I know I will get confused and eventually lost if I don't.
So, thanks for the explanation.



Jeanna

here is something else to stay on top of

:)

This  is a different configuration  of  my candy cane  coil
Like  my  candy cane coil  the primary  of this coil  spans several toroids . ( brown )
The secondary  goes through  the centers of all the toroids  but does not wrap around any of them .

The  secondary   ( orange ) originally  put out 50 V measured  with a small cap and a bridge
I tried  lowering  the  voltage  by  increasing   the base resistor .
I had to add 18K to get my pot to a workable range so I could hit 2.5V
At that power setting  the ultracap did not charge   

I  did not  take reading and  figure out  how much the ultracap was going up per minute .......but with full power this coil  was charging faster than candy cane3 did the other night . probably  because of  a larger  secondary 

The  green coil  is there to  experment  with feedback ...... This coil  did not  have much power     I might have got the  windings the wrong direction 
With other  feedback experments  this coil  would light up my LED array very brghtly

gary 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 12, 2009, 07:41:23 PM
Wow ! that took a lot of time to do . It is running on 1.5 right ? Nice design and i might add that's quite original !

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on December 12, 2009, 07:43:05 PM
@all


Gary , nice , out of the box thinking unless you are making a small hadron collider ...

Be careful not to open a wormhole.

Mark  :D 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: resonanceman on December 12, 2009, 08:26:26 PM
@all


Gary , nice , out of the box thinking unless you are making a small hadron collider ...

Be careful not to open a wormhole.

Mark  :D

Mark

All my thinking is out of the box thinking .......... I never could afford a box to put my  thinking in


:)


Gadget    yes   its 1.5 v

What I wonder   about this coil ...  If I used big enough   toroids  and  a  large secondary ....... could   the secondary work off of  E field only?
As it is set up   this coil may  or may not  be using  the E field.


gary
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on December 12, 2009, 11:02:45 PM
In order to reduce diodes losses,  maybe they can be joined in parallel up to 2-3 items?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 13, 2009, 12:40:53 AM
WELL SIR GARY

NOW ITS ON!

i mean that in a good way bro .... lol

i have something im gonna try .. but  just similar to what you have but i will step up the origonal jt flyback  and dump to external secondary then to your loop   

im gonna build it  right now ... 

and i will make  basic mk2 jts.. so i can FEED 2 CORES FROM 1  to BOOST VOLTAGE HIGH FAST ..

is

i made a 16 turn twisted pair cat5 1" goldmine as a supply ...  took a pic ..

the design soooooo fits the pic ... lol
i will likely make 3 like showen then each a mk2 jt  or even a 1 with 2 windings like the w core ..

i guess we will see what i end up with lol

w

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 13, 2009, 10:15:58 AM
Video of my Lidmotor Jeanna Light replication:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3sTtDbrPI

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: stprue on December 13, 2009, 03:13:57 PM
Video of my Lidmotor Jeanna Light replication:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3sTtDbrPI

Bill

Great video Pirate!  Everything was explained well!  Looks like you're getting lots of light out of that CFL.  Is it a 13watt?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 13, 2009, 05:25:36 PM
im  makeing a basic jt as showen 16 t

im scopeing the out put ... i have noticed some intresting things....

WILLIAM

i will add the video ..  im getting nice peek to peek spikes ..  over 100v  as i tune it ..  i can go for verry high freq .. or verry high volt .. at a lower freq..  if i HEAR THE JT ... IT IS RUNNING FAST ..

if it is silent i have high volt spikes 

that turned out awesome bill!  : )

im makeing a few videos ...   in my first video i will show you HARMONICS ... ON MY SCOPE!

the harmonic bands are located on the PEEKS OF MY SPIKE... in this such unit ... you can CLEARLY SEE THEM!  lol

: )
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 13, 2009, 08:31:13 PM
stprue:

Thank you.  No, this is a 9 watt (40 watt light equivalent, according to the box)  I have some more work to do.  I think I can get it much brighter with a little tweaking, but we will see.

IST:

Thanks bro.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 13, 2009, 08:38:37 PM
here is the video ..


i hope you all understand ..


ist

: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qHwOqWnWI0
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 13, 2009, 09:18:44 PM
IST,

The video is nice but I'm afraid it is not showing harmonics. Harmonics would be shown as 2 separate waveforms horizontally across the CRT. If there were 3 harmonic frequencies, there would be 3 waveforms. If the waveforms were in sync, you would see an increase in amplitude of the waveform where they lined up.

Sorry. 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 04:39:05 AM
it looks like to me harmonics ...

i have seen MUCH OF THEASE

that video is not the best demo of it as it is not core tuned hardly at all

the point was to show how to use the colpase and devide it into a few feeds and amp it with a magnet .. i have done so as i add the magnet in the videos that follow you at the end see resonant magnet interaction and harmonic bands ... THE SAME HARMONIC BANDS SHOWEN ON MY FIRST VIDEO...

: )

ist!

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 14, 2009, 01:46:43 PM
Hi guys what happened to the heater circuit it was really interesting. If one ecomplish this I think it's much better than light.
Gadgetmall you managed to charge that Ucap fast?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 14, 2009, 02:23:20 PM
it looks like to me harmonics ...

i have seen MUCH OF THEASE

that video is not the best demo of it as it is not core tuned hardly at all

the point was to show how to use the colpase and devide it into a few feeds and amp it with a magnet .. i have done so as i add the magnet in the videos that follow you at the end see resonant magnet interaction and harmonic bands ... THE SAME HARMONIC BANDS SHOWEN ON MY FIRST VIDEO...

: )

ist!

It may look like harmonics to you but it is not. It is a single waveform. And yes, I am sure you have seen many of them. That is one of the advantages of a scope. You see the waveform not just the voltage or frequency. Scopes are used extensively in the service field. It is really hard to see what is going on without one.

Also if you look carefully at your scope when you add the magnet, you would notice that you are only offsetting or shifting the waveform. Not amplifying it. It shifts vertically.

I really think you need to read up a bit on scopes and waveforms. I'm not trying to be rude but, to people who know how to use a scope you do not look very good, and you are misleading the people who don't.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 02:46:41 PM
it is  related ...  those bands ... are CLEARLY BANDS....  OF SOMETHING ... WHAT ARE THEY ?

AS I TUNE OUT MY KICKS  to a large view those BANDS SPRED OUT ...

we will see ... 

i beleave them to be the same BANDS I TUNE IN TO WITH THE USE OF THE MAGNET 

i can be wrong ... im just 1 person with AN ANOLOG SCOPE and i dont see anyone  showing scope shots that prove this diffrently ..

none the less that little cridder works well so far ..

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 04:18:43 PM
i have made more videos of this COIL RAMPING UP ! 

and i took some pictures of the  rinngginngg  wave .. 

it continues to fill in ... over time .. as the battery drains .. it keeps its tune ..

thank you !

william!

SLOW RAMP UP VIDEO .. : )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ayWn7n3I
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 04:59:25 PM
MY NEXT VIDEO IS RAMP UP TO RESONANCE

AND TUNED TO 27 HARMONICS VIA A MAGNET ...

AND NO DRIFT ...  LMFAO!!!!!!

W

MR.M ...  not to be rude .. but you can count them .... : )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcMcStBjwqw
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 14, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
MY NEXT VIDEO IS RAMP UP TO RESONANCE

AND TUNED TO 27 HARMONICS VIA A MAGNET ...

AND NO DRIFT ...  LMFAO!!!!!!

W

MR.M ...  not to be rude .. but you can count them .... : )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcMcStBjwqw

First off, thanx for the mention in your video :)

These ARE NOT harmonic frequencies. No offence but it is really hard to try to prove someone wrong when they don't understand what they are seeing.
I really don't know exactly where you are connecting the scope so it is hard to comment on what exactly the small wave is. Could be caused by capacitor, a secondary coil,.....
If I am wrong, can you tell me what frequencies these harmonics are? Not all 27 of them, just give me 10 of them.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 06:45:03 PM
First off, thanx for the mention in your video :)

These ARE NOT harmonic frequencies. No offence but it is really hard to try to prove someone wrong when they don't understand what they are seeing.
I really don't know exactly where you are connecting the scope so it is hard to comment on what exactly the small wave is. Could be caused by capacitor, a secondary coil,.....
If I am wrong, can you tell me what frequencies these harmonics are? Not all 27 of them, just give me 10 of them.

ok mr. m

watch ..  as i pulse my core ... haromonics add TO MY BIG KICKS...  THE LONGER IT RUNS  THE LARGER THEY BECOME!!  THE MORE AND MORE RIPPLES THAT ADD TILL IM GUESSING THERE IS NO PEEK BUT A SOLID HUGE KICK

none the less i have showen all you need to REPLICATE MY WORK AND DRAW YOUR OWN CONCULSIONS.. 

btw  there are 0 caps ....  it is scoped on the same secondary as i have been all along ...
not sure what to tell ya mr.m  .. 

lol

use some MOSFETS...  may be 4 of em at 12vdc or less feed ... lol  and mirror it ... 

silly humans!

w

magnetic freq!    sounds close to harmonic magnetic resonance additive +
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 14, 2009, 06:52:21 PM
I know I'm just a "silly human" but would you mind telling me at what frequencies those harmonics are?

I'm still cleaning up the shop but when I'm done I will do it so that maybe you will understand better.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 07:42:01 PM
mr m

my kicks have growen more now even .. im over 100   when i had 27 b4 ...

intresting ?

ist!

i may be wrong ... i have no formal training ... but i dont think so ...

here is a picture of how my kick has growen ...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 14, 2009, 08:27:24 PM
Forget it. I'd be better off just pounding my head against the wall.

  ---  Mr.Mag walks away shaking his head ----
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 14, 2009, 08:33:00 PM
lol

well every time i stop the unit ... then start it agin with in a few secconds .. that wave i have showen gets another ripple added to it as it apears through my eyes ..

it seams to keep adding on to the last ...  unless i stop it for a long peroid of time ... and then it looks as it did when i started out .. 1 or 2 ripples .. and grows to hundreds ..

if i turn it on and let it run with out stopping it .. it apears to remain fixed ... if i intrupt it it keeps adding ..

if i get this on 1 coil from my second core i expect the same wave on all of them

like i said i could be wrong ... how am i suspoto know ...  all i know is this is what it does ...

w
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 14, 2009, 10:43:43 PM
Hi guys what happened to the heater circuit it was really interesting. If one ecomplish this I think it's much better than light.
Gadgetmall you managed to charge that Ucap fast?
Thanks
You mean faster . Yes a little faster . A lot of experiments are going on right now . Several look promising like one gary is doing and Kooler . Mk1 just posted a current amplifier . Some one need to build it . I swear i have got my hands full until after the holidays . I am making a bunch of Jt lights to give away for Christmas and runn9ing Experiments and Doing the daddy thing and house cleaning ,cooking ,washing . Etc..  :) It Nice to sit here on the keyboard for a bit to Chill out Unless someone starts something like on the Uc thread . Those are Bastards ans they get on my nerves . Its funny how someone can get in your brain by just a computer screen  ;)  I bet there is a lot of people who have had heart attacks getting into Flame wars and Died right there on their keyboard . Hehehe . Trying to talk to them two(u know) is like trying to talk to a mules ass while he's taking a dump

Mrmag hows this :
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 15, 2009, 01:06:05 AM
You mean faster . Yes a little faster . A lot of experiments are going on right now . Several look promising like one gary is doing and Kooler . Mk1 just posted a current amplifier . Some one need to build it . I swear i have got my hands full until after the holidays . I am making a bunch of Jt lights to give away for Christmas and runn9ing Experiments and Doing the daddy thing and house cleaning ,cooking ,washing . Etc..  :) It Nice to sit here on the keyboard for a bit to Chill out Unless someone starts something like on the Uc thread . Those are Bastards ans they get on my nerves . Its funny how someone can get in your brain by just a computer screen  ;)  I bet there is a lot of people who have had heart attacks getting into Flame wars and Died right there on their keyboard . Hehehe . Trying to talk to them two(u know) is like trying to talk to a mules ass while he's taking a dump

Mrmag hows this :

PERFECT!!!!

Gadget, did you ever try charging up that cap with a fugi board?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on December 15, 2009, 01:39:50 AM
hey guys
is ok if i starting posting my circuit in here
its not just a jt anymore
i would have before but i didn't want to slow progress in this section

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 15, 2009, 01:49:37 AM
kooler:

Close enough for me, and it started as JT research.  I would like to see your experiments.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on December 15, 2009, 02:18:08 AM
thanks
will do bill

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 15, 2009, 02:34:44 AM
i say let her rip KOOLER.


this is some koolerization!

lol


i cant wate to pull out the boxes of flybacks  to play .. : )  thease coils are getting boring .. lol

not!

ist!

you see kooler i designed a ring some time ago that has a bunch ... and i hope to sometime have them fire 123456  at highspeed ..   rectify and charge BIG CAPS ... 

l8r

mr.m i have such a board ..  i think i used 10 or 12 cams...  lol   out put 800v...  180ma ..  now i did use a few batteries .. but i can REPLACE ALL OF THEM IF I EVER GET MY CAPS ... lol

1 day .. some day ... 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: MrMag on December 15, 2009, 03:48:18 AM
I think the biggest problem here is that you are trying to charge a big cap with a small charger. I wonder if you beef it up to maybe 3 volt, would it charge the cap fast enough to help bump up the 3 volts???

IST,
Fire that puppy up already!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on December 15, 2009, 07:05:17 AM
that kinda juice ... 


its gonna hurt .. bad!

so dont touch it .. 

it is packed away ..  ill digg it out ..

william!

this is the board i speek of ..

878vac 428vdc @150 ma

http://www.youtube.com/user/innovationstation#p/u/30/S-NxOrp8gAU
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 16, 2009, 03:27:44 PM
PERFECT!!!!

Gadget, did you ever try charging up that cap with a fugi board?
No  but its a good idea..

@kooler

Of Course ! your are about as second stage +as i have ever seen My friend . No need to ask . We need you here! Welcome . I want to replica your stuff i just need some hand full of those neons you got . I got most and scrs ,Hv toroid ,mots ,trans, and junk .
Then i want to apply a fix to drop the input way down . Also i have an idea to step down that Hv to a lower volts and seek high current .. I have a 2 transistor 2n3055 push pull circuit for  driving a flyback and i think we can make this work on 1 volt . I'll post it as soon as i draw it . this circuit is very similar . Changing bias and coils,caps can make this run off of an aa battery .Also tip transistor would be better  . heres a good HV link for some ideas http://www.next.gr/search.php?what=flyback

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on December 16, 2009, 06:56:50 PM
@gadget

Second stage you say , i actually got the ssjt idea way back but only suggested it once i saw kooler demo.

If we could get a 60hz out of it , that would be really great.


We also could wire the Jeanna light like the fugi board .


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 16, 2009, 07:29:53 PM
Right ,thats why i posted that circuit above . It more stable in a push pull circuit than one transistor . Yes kooler circuit Buzzes like 50 60 cycles if you notice . I assume its the neon trigger to scr .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 17, 2009, 09:31:35 PM
Hi guys I had build a toroid on Slayer007 schematic and it's giving me about 90v on the secondary.
How can I use this to charge 12v batteries? Should I add an electrolyte capacitor on the BR and what UF and voltage?
Any help please?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on December 18, 2009, 01:25:54 AM
gadget
i use the neons in all my test once i get it to something that i like i will switch the scr or triac and neons for a sidac
if you build this circuit don't forget to have a load on the scr circuit before you cut it on
if not you will blow a cap.. i know a 250vdc poly cap will hold over 1200 volts before it starts smoking..lol
and they stink...
in the video below it shows 29.** ma's that is what charges my cap the fastest
if you don't mind going to like 12-15 hz output you can go way lower on the battery draw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pM3KhV8daw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pM3KhV8daw)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 18, 2009, 02:31:53 AM
gadget
i use the neons in all my test once i get it to something that i like i will switch the scr or triac and neons for a sidac
if you build this circuit don't forget to have a load on the scr circuit before you cut it on
if not you will blow a cap.. i know a 250vdc poly cap will hold over 1200 volts before it starts smoking..lol
and they stink...
in the video below it shows 29.** ma's that is what charges my cap the fastest
if you don't mind going to like 12-15 hz output you can go way lower on the battery draw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pM3KhV8daw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pM3KhV8daw)
This is perfect robby  . the amp draw is very close to a nornal evilmadscientist JT of 20 ma . Fantastic Discovery on two toroids . I wonder if they are stacked will that be the same . Should be and maybe got more induction ?  Thansk for sharing this awsome cap charger!
Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on December 18, 2009, 02:53:46 AM
i not sure how well it will work seems like i tried it
i'll be probably moving to a smaller toroid soon like the 1'' in the same fashion
just to reduce size
or maybe even a e-core
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on December 18, 2009, 05:25:25 AM
hey
i was thinking of going back to my first design which was ac.. i just never had the right ac caps to it
right now with a good steady hz a 120v 4w bulb the filament will burn bright red but won't light
so i thinking maybe i losing something in the bridges...
the real reason i posting here is that i was going to tell you guys that with this circuit pulled 105ma's i nearly had it to self run... feeding back off the second stage with 2 turns on a toroid thru a bridge to a run cap would run it for 30-35 seconds after the batt was unhooked
so i was thinking maybe since i got the ma's pull down to 30ma's maybe it will run on its on this time...
ah dreams...lol

hey do you think this place has good cheap meters or don't buy them???
http://www.mpja.com/default.asp (http://www.mpja.com/default.asp)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 18, 2009, 06:21:24 AM
hey
i was thinking of going back to my first design which was ac.. i just never had the right ac caps to it
right now with a good steady hz a 120v 4w bulb the filament will burn bright red but won't light
so i thinking maybe i losing something in the bridges...
the real reason i posting here is that i was going to tell you guys that with this circuit pulled 105ma's i nearly had it to self run... feeding back off the second stage with 2 turns on a toroid thru a bridge to a run cap would run it for 30-35 seconds after the batt was unhooked
so i was thinking maybe since i got the ma's pull down to 30ma's maybe it will run on its on this time...
ah dreams...lol

hey do you think this place has good cheap meters or don't buy them???
http://www.mpja.com/default.asp (http://www.mpja.com/default.asp)
harbourfreight . 2.99 for a multimeter LCD 2000volt scale backlit . I bought a bunch last christmas . they are great ! I have one a few miles from us . look em up on the internet harborfreight tools . they got some neat stuff.the meters are red and have two types . if you rneed to calibrate them there is a pot inside to adjust the volts to match your other meter . once set its accurate !

Self run it a reality . Get ready !! and you are right if you can get the input down and harvest that Hv In a BCap your self running , I know my circuit will . there are Doubters but they havent build it  :)  Alex will . its so simple it crazy simple.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 22, 2009, 05:19:00 PM
All,

I have now built the circuit (the one with micro controller) that I posted back
on page 26. I will now develop the software needed to run the mcu. I will post
the software here when done and tested.

Groundloop
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 22, 2009, 08:16:47 PM
Alex . Its Beautiful .Can't wail to Show the trolls they are wrong !! I have a Jt alread Made i was sending to some one but i destroyed there existence and address so I'll send it to you Instead .Its alread packaged  i just need a little time to make the trip to a post office . they close early so the day after Christmas I will send you on ei made with a Goldmine cor and to my specifications . If you dont have a good battery i found some yesterday at harborfreight 4 ni/mh 2200mah ./ I will test them now they were only 4.95 for a 4 PACK > I got a couple packs of them Christmas Sale . !!!also they have 2500 mah C and D cells in a two pack for 6 dollars !! cheap . and theya re heavy too . I'll charge them up and condition them with my bedini and if you cant find them i will send you one with your Pro gadget . BTW  My self runner is doing great and after almost 6 weeks the battery is still well over the beginning charge  like i told you in the email i forgot to unscrew My 1.2 volt bulb for 8 hours and that AA battery Charged up well beyond the start rating so its good for another  few months  :) and he bcap is Charging its little heart out . even after 8 hours feeding the aa battery it only dropped to 1. 5 volts  :) . Very good News . The bad news in the circuit i discussed . I messed  something up or broke a little wire on it and i am heartbroken . I will figure it out but more in an email from you . I might just send it and see if you can make heads or tails of it , but i want it back ok ? I'll spend more time on it and see what i did , one thing i did was use brittle wire . After Christmas i'll make anotehr one .
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 22, 2009, 09:48:31 PM
Albert,

I really appreciate your nice comments about my new circuit. It is a lot of work (and some money spent)
to make these circuits. I will be really proud and really glad to receive a genuine Gadget version JT.

I will use your JT when I test my setup. I have found batteries. I now have one 2100mA/h NiMeH,
one 4500mA/h and one 8000mA/h battery to do testing with. I also have a Bedini like charger for those
batteries to get them initially charged. No problem there and no need to send me any batteries.

I will try to repair your circuit, If you send me the broken circuit, and I will return it to you, no problem.

I will work on the software for the automated feed back and discharge circuit. (We need to find a
shorter name for that circuit. LOL) It will take some few days. Have a nice Christmas.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 22, 2009, 10:50:48 PM

Excellent craftsmanship Gloop.

Keep up the good work...one day when someone breaks through, and the world is not a military gulag, I hope we can all have a little get together in some warm climate.

There are so many good souls on this site...it would be grat to meet them.

Regards...

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 22, 2009, 11:11:50 PM
Hi Groundloop not to sound critizing but alot of work for just charging back an aa battery I think better just hook it on a small charger and use it again   :D.
I think as I said before the great achievment would be to drive a heater filament from from  just an aa batt.
Thanks anyway for your effort.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 22, 2009, 11:27:43 PM
@Cap-Z-ro,

Thanks. :-)

@Guruji,

The goal is to get a unit that is automated. If there is any o/u then the unit will be self evident
regarding OU, without the need for measurements. One black box, one light output.
It may not work but there is a lot of fun trying. The software is halfway there. Maybe first test
tomorrow.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 23, 2009, 01:02:36 AM
Groundloop:

Man that is a nice looking board there.  You do excellent work.  I agree with you...OU or no OU what is the worst thing that could happen?  So we end up with a light and charging circuit that will run the light for a year on one battery...that still sounds very cool to me.  I look forward to seeing the results no matter what they may be.

Merry Christmas to you and your family,

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 23, 2009, 01:11:25 AM
Albert,

I really appreciate your nice comments about my new circuit. It is a lot of work (and some money spent)
to make these circuits. I will be really proud and really glad to receive a genuine Gadget version JT.

I will use your JT when I test my setup. I have found batteries. I now have one 2100mA/h NiMeH,
one 4500mA/h and one 8000mA/h battery to do testing with. I also have a Bedini like charger for those
batteries to get them initially charged. No problem there and no need to send me any batteries.

I will try to repair your circuit, If you send me the broken circuit, and I will return it to you, no problem.

I will work on the software for the automated feed back and discharge circuit. (We need to find a
shorter name for that circuit. LOL) It will take some few days. Have a nice Christmas.

Alex.
How about what i have been calling it :) OU controller . In honor of this site . and well other things :) It it our intentions to show this will run on it;s own not only with JUST an aa battery but also from an utra cap . I have done long hours of initial test using them as well as the cheaper version the aa battery . Yes soon we will all see if I  am fake or real . I will be one dirty Bad person if i scammed someone one so I will eat dog poop in a video if i did !  BUT if I am not and this works then i expect what any one who would put their time and hard work in in and it performs as i stated then i deserve no less that what Tesla and any inventors praise with one exception We will give it to you and not keep anything hidden so you can make one . . Agreed ?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 23, 2009, 02:05:00 AM
Bill,

Thanks. :-)

@Gadget,

Modify you post and remove the "shoot an bullet" text. It look nasty and I know you do not mean it. OK?
What about something much nicer, like I will eat my hat or something?

The software is taking shape now. Working into the night..........................

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 23, 2009, 04:46:55 AM
Bill,

Thanks. :-)

@Gadget,

Modify you post and remove the "shoot an bullet" text. It look nasty and I know you do not mean it. OK?
What about something much nicer, like I will eat my hat or something?

The software is taking shape now. Working into the night..........................

Groundloop.
No i didnt mean it but i did mean that if i am scamming you and everyone else then i could not live with myself knowing that . You know i am not but i leave it up to you . Sometime i need a slap in the face . Thank you and i am up all night also so i would love to help or at least get updates have you got skype . I got me a new key and got that back set up . I am happyhippydad  ...Alex LOOK AT THAT JT AND GIVE ME YOUR OPINION > ITS YOUR JT YOU KNOW . SO YOU WILL GET FIRST HAND TEST FOR YOUR SELF > just leave the pot alone and test it like i did first . :) I love it . Do i have a Gift or what . Why Me ?? I cannot believe my eyes . This one charges up a cap nicley and a lot faster also .

Albert  Merry Christmas  !!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 23, 2009, 12:57:25 PM
Hi Gagdetmall today I received the Ucap and thanks for that small solar panel. Looking forward to build your heater circuit Gagdet.
Don't be too much in it even that people think otherwise against you take it easy. Relax man cause sometimes I feel you're getting a bit tense.
World is like a dream after all ;we sometimes dream many horror things but when we get awake we laugh at it.
Stay always in that eternal now;no matter what thoughts come cause that is the only freedom we truly have.
Ok enough of the philosophy now  ;D.
Happy Christmas
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 23, 2009, 02:01:14 PM
All,

A little update on the progress with the automated feed back and discharge circuit.

I have completed most of the software and now the feed back part is working.
I get a feed back start at 1,25 volt and a feed back stop at 1,30 volt. (This voltage level
is adjustable with an external pot-meter.) Now I will start getting the discharge
part to work. I had to change one resistor value to zero Ohm, but the pcb layout
did not need any changes. I will post the new circuit drawing and software when done.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on December 23, 2009, 06:01:27 PM

@groundloop et all

This approach looks nearly perfect. To have a self runner that supports a 'up'
controller, is great because the function can be expanded slightly, to include
various types of monitoring. But you should just focus on the basic functioning
of the controller as you now see it.

---

Treat this project just as if you are landing a glider...Just keep the target
located inside the little red box, ignore the scenery going by as it soon will
be all behind you.


---

Good work and good luck.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 23, 2009, 06:09:04 PM
@all  I made a video last night and finally got it uploaded after 7 hours  this is that JT that i built for paul but Gave it to Alex instead . MerryChristmas . This is exactly how i measured it and i have no idea why it put out more than in . Alex will have a good time with this one ! calculated just from My little experiment last night with his JT 5 mW in and 75 mW out, that is a COP = 15  No need to replicate  we have it under control !
Alex if your looking you package is on its way . I also inclosed a spare toroid!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q2VnPpvKdI


MerryChristmas

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 23, 2009, 06:41:54 PM
@mscoffman,

Thanks.

Yes, the micro controller can do many things and we can expand the circuit later on.
I tried to keep it simple because I did not want the circuit to load the AA battery to much.
Measurements I did today shows me that the circuit itself uses approx. 600uA from the
1,5 volt battery when it runs. (micro Ampere = milli Ampere / 1000)

@Gadget,

Thanks a lot. I will look at your video, merry Christmas.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 23, 2009, 07:24:04 PM
@groundloop

Congratulations!!!

I have a newbie question though.
Does that circuit needs to be connected to a computer to work?

I ask this because you said that it will use a software.

Jesus
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 23, 2009, 08:36:43 PM
@nievesoliveras,

No.

The micro controller needs the software.
It is a plug and play circuit.

EDIT: OK, everything is working now. First test with bcap is ongoing. This test is only to see
if the feed back and discharge happens at the correct voltage levels. I have attached a zip
file containing the Eagle CAD (from www.cadsoft.de) design files, some gif files and the SW.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 23, 2009, 09:23:20 PM
@nievesoliveras,

No.

The micro controller needs the software.
It is a plug and play circuit.

EDIT: OK, everything is working now. First test with bcap is ongoing. This test is only to see
if the feed back and discharge happens at the correct voltage levels. I have attached a zip
file containing the Eagle CAD (from www.cadsoft.de) design files, some gif files and the SW.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop if the micro controller needs the software than as Jesus said one has to connect this to a computer and program it with a software as you're doing no?
Can one do this circuit analog or it would be very complicated?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 23, 2009, 09:53:31 PM
@guruji,

Yes you need a programmer to get the HEX file into the PIC16F88 micro controller.
One really simple and cheap controller can be built as described in the attached file.
The program can be downloaded here: http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/winpicpr.html
This program will control the attached drawing. You will need a serial port on
your computer. A USB to serial dongle will NOT work. You can also use one
of the many programmers found on the net.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 24, 2009, 04:58:47 AM
Thank you Alex . It is Indeed a very nice but complex circuit . Only the Best and every project i ever saw from you was a master piece . .
On a side Note . I made an exact copy of the jt i made for you and guess what . It will not do the same thing??? It must be the transistor . This one works completely different with the exact same components . The only difference is component placement . There Must be some impedance  in the length of wires coming off the toroid .  Well you got the best one i have ever made and i don't think i will be able to make another on e BUT i will try to remember by the pictures and video I made and Maybe find the reason it put more out than in . When you get get see if i was right ? Definitely need your second opinion but as i said this one will not put more current out than in :(

Albert 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 24, 2009, 05:20:05 AM
Albert,

I will test you JT when it arrives. I have a small problem with the feed back circuit.
My P-Type mosfet will not switch on when asked to do so. I'm looking into a solution
and will try a power PNP transistor instead. The pcb will not need any updating at all.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 24, 2009, 04:26:53 PM
Albert,

I will test you JT when it arrives. I have a small problem with the feed back circuit.
My P-Type mosfet will not switch on when asked to do so. I'm looking into a solution
and will try a power PNP transistor instead. The pcb will not need any updating at all.

Alex.
Ok this sounds like either a bad part or maybe n type mosfet ? If your signal is there to turn it on the logic says either wrong turn on volts or bad part ?
According to this the gate volts on Pmosfet must be lower to turn it on ?

Single-type MOSFET switch

This analog switch uses a four-terminal simple MOSFET of either P or N type. In the case of an N-type switch, the body is connected to the most negative supply (usually GND) and the gate is used as the switch control. Whenever the gate voltage exceeds the source voltage by at least a threshold voltage, the MOSFET conducts. The higher the voltage, the more the MOSFET can conduct. An N-MOS switch passes all voltages less than (Vgate–Vtn). When the switch is conducting, it typically operates in the linear (or Ohmic) mode of operation, since the source and drain voltages will typically be nearly equal.

In the case of a P-MOS, the body is connected to the most positive voltage, and the gate is brought to a lower potential to turn the switch on. The P-MOS switch passes all voltages higher than (Vgate+|Vtp|). Threshold voltage (Vtp) is typically negative in the case of P-MOS.

A P-MOS switch will have about three times the resistance of an N-MOS device of equal dimensions because electrons have about three times the mobility of holes in silicon.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on December 24, 2009, 06:05:57 PM
Albert,

I will test you JT when it arrives. I have a small problem with the feed back circuit.
My P-Type mosfet will not switch on when asked to do so. I'm looking into a solution
and will try a power PNP transistor instead. The pcb will not need any updating at all.

Alex.

I haven't evaluated all the details here but N - MosFETs operated on 5Volts want
to be driven, on it's gate, above +5 volts to turn fully on. Maxim/Dallas has voltage
doubler interface chips to do this for FETS operated at low voltage. MOSFet are a lot
more efficient and impedance controlled than bipolar transistors...So i would
recommend MosFets here if at all possible. I don't know about P type Mosfets
so can not guarantee them.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 24, 2009, 09:52:31 PM
@mscoffman,

I have no problem with the N-Type mosfet.
It is the P-Type mosfet that wont turn on.

The problem is probably that the "ground" of the mosfet is not ground but
is floating above ground as the bcap is charging. When I put null
volt on the gate then there is not enough "negative" voltage to
switch the mosfet on.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 25, 2009, 07:52:13 AM
All,

I have found a solution to the feed back problem.
The solution was to use a power NPN transistor.

Attached is all the design files.

My design goals was like this:

Circuit should use minimum current from AA battery.
My circuit uses less than 0,7mA.

Circuit should have a automatically feed back that could charge the AA battery from the BCAP.
My circuit will automatically feed back current to AA battery when AA battery voltage
has dropped to 1,3 Volt (adjustable) AND BCAP has a charge voltage higher than the AA battery.
The base current to the NPN transistor is not wasted and will also charge the AA battery.
The maximum charge current is limited by the transistor HFE (20).
The base current are (5/270)/2 = 0,009 Amp. so max. feed back charge current is 0,185 Amp.
This is a safe charge current for a NiMeH AA battery. (/2 is because PWM control with 50% duty.)

Circuit should have a automatically discharge from BCAP to load.
My circuit will automatically discharge the BCAP to load when the BCAP has reached approx. 2,5 volt.
The discharge will automatically stop when the BCAP reach approx. 1,5 volt. This threshold voltage
was selected bacause we always want the BCAP voltage to be higher than the AA voltage so that
we can get a feed back charge to AA battery when needed. The maximum discharge current is only
limited to the pcb tracks ability to conduct current AND the max. N-mosfet current ability. This is
estimated to be approx. 40 ampere pulsed with 50% duty cycle.

This circuit will prove without any doubht if a JT or boost converter is over unity or not by simply
let the circuit run and see if the AA battery and BCAP will discharge or charge.

@Gadgetmall

I will snail mail the circuit and spare pcbs over to you on Monday.

Alex.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 25, 2009, 08:03:06 AM
Excelent Alex . Your are an angel in a santa Suit :) Merry Christmas And a VERy Happy day Indeed ! And I hope and pray this will show What i believe to be a Wonderful Machine and the first of its kind !

Good night and Noel
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2009, 08:17:39 AM
Alex:

Super job man, I knew you would get it figured out, I have faith in you.  I imagine the testing will take quite a while, possibly forever if Gadget is correct, ha ha.  This will be great.

Merry Christmas Alex

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 25, 2009, 08:27:44 AM
Albert and Bill,

Thanks and  Merry Christmas.

Now I can finally get some sleep. :-)

I will test the BACP setup when the Gadgetmall JT arrive. Probably in two weeks time.

Forgot to add: The pcb was designed to accept a P-Mosfet. Now, when using a power NPN
(could be almost any power NPN with pins like base, collector, emitter) then the collector
and emitter pins MUST be crossed before inserting the NPN into the board for soldering.
So one pin must have insulation plastic tubing and then the pins must be crossed.

The posted layout files has been corrected for accepting a power NPN with straight pins.
Both transistors must be mounted with insulation rubber and plastic ring onto the heat sink.

I will answer any questions later on after I have had my 10 - 12 hour sleep. :-)

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on December 25, 2009, 11:02:57 PM
Wow Alex you're an electronic Guru  :o. Very nice and hard work to get it all in one piece.
Nice nice Happy Christmas.
Andrew
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 26, 2009, 02:57:24 AM
@All . Its Christmastime once again . I would like to say that Alex Is really someone Special to go thru this on a whim of mine . And Bill you are right it will Literally take possible 4 months at the least . As you all can see that the Jt on the boards run full power and only draw 2-4 milliamps Maximum ! I know this reading is correct and i have video evidence of this so with a 2500 MAH battery the jt alone will run for possible 2 months just by itself charging a bcap .With a 10,000mah D cell no telling . It will take At least another month or two after that to actually see this circuit work its Miracle . And that My friends Will be a Momentous occasion  to behold the Worlds first public self running power source . Am i scared ? Yes . Because this will Interfere with the powers at large . And that includes Battery companies , petroleum , car manufactures , and imagine the first real prototype  self powered golf cart and bicycles and the list goes on . So I hope and pray that what i found out By accident will serve mankind and i don't get killed in the process .

May God be on our side  and the project succeeds with out failure .

Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to All

Albert   aka Gadget . 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 26, 2009, 03:15:46 AM
@guruji,

Thank you, and merry Christmas to you and your family.

Albert,

It will take 625 hours (26 days) of run time with a battery amperage of 2500mAh with a current
usage of 4mAh. It will take 2500 hours (104 days) of run time with a battery amperage of 10000mAh
with a current usage of 4mAh. If it takes longer than that then there is free energy.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 26, 2009, 04:29:09 AM
@guruji,

Thank you, and merry Christmas to you and your family.

Albert,

It will take 625 hours (26 days) of run time with a battery amperage of 2500mAh with a current
usage of 4mAh. It will take 2500 hours (104 days) of run time with a battery amperage of 10000mAh
with a current usage of 4mAh. If it takes longer than that then there is free energy.

Alex.
Hi Alex. I hope you got soem good ZZZ in ! . I was off a bit . OK I am making a short video tonight of the black box i have been running with the same battery AA 2500 mah for over one month ,more like 5 weeks . Now i cannot of coarse prove that the same battery has been running this device for that logn  but on my word it has been . This has been a series of screwups leaving the bulb feedback regenerator circuit screwed in for  a few missed days of over 8 hours at a time when i forgot to unscrew it . So this has not been consistent like your circuit will provide but it shows how all this will come together I would normally screw it in 30 minuits  every 2 days to regenerate the battery.The battery is showing 1.245 volts as of now and the bcap is over 1.9 volts . in 5 miunits it will have been in the regen process and i will film the battery voltage before and after . I already did the before :) It will show the battery at  a recharged state and the bcap will not have lost that much energy and i can set it in a corner for a few days and check it again . I'll to upload in an hour or so . This shows that even pulling 13 milliams i can run this circuit for months  ,years etc. that is where i got the 2 month thing from . Was just thinking wrong but as you will see its not a gag!
Also this will show that even an unefficiant Jt such as this one pulling 13 ma and outputting 5 ma can still run this long and keep the battery up
the one your getting will be way better than than this one
Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 26, 2009, 06:12:31 AM
well youtube is not cooperating tonight I have already had 4 upload failures  so i am calling it quits for tonight and try to upload tomorrow . Gnight

Dog tired Boss Dog tired

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 26, 2009, 04:07:29 PM
@guruji,

Here is how I make a 1 Watt load. Take two 2,5 Volt 0,2 Ampere light bulbs
and put them in parallel. I use the top and bottom of a used up 9V Duracell
battery as support for the bulb sockets. Then I just use hot glue to keep the
two plastic parts together.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 26, 2009, 07:22:13 PM
The Load is nice Alex. It lights up a 1.2 volt bulb very bright also .It can also power a 12 volt peltier module for a long time . I need to figure a way to store the heat and or cold so it will keep producing tha heat  or cold . Maybe oil ? This way it is possible to produce more than one watt continuious ! be it electrical or heat or cold ! The ideal container caould be a thermos  with a vacume bottle in it . I bet it cold stay hot all day !
Here is My cruddy videos . I was very tired and my voice was high and you can tell i was tired . Soory I am not a film producer  :) This was quick and dirty video . I'll make another few  with more time and better quality .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw5sU_8LUEI

part 2 and 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8T3UBwoxV0

Thanks for watching My stuff .

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 27, 2009, 01:28:28 PM
Groundloop we have a surprize for you soon! ;D
Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on December 27, 2009, 01:59:00 PM
All,

A little update on the progress with the automated feed back and discharge circuit.

I have completed most of the software and now the feed back part is working.
I get a feed back start at 1,25 volt and a feed back stop at 1,30 volt. (This voltage level
is adjustable with an external pot-meter.) Now I will start getting the discharge
part to work. I had to change one resistor value to zero Ohm, but the pcb layout
did not need any changes. I will post the new circuit drawing and software when done.

Alex.
This is the Amazing part here folks . Alex has created a circuit just from a description of what i would like it to do . The man is a genius ! IF anyone deserves  a title he does ! The Highest one possible ! Wow . I am so proud to be his friend and will always be in debt to him . He is modest and kind and the smartest  person i have ever met in my entire life . His projects are always masterful and his programming skill are second to NONE!

Thank you Alex.

Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on December 27, 2009, 03:59:58 PM
Albert,

Thank you for your nice words. :-)

I will always try my best to be of service to the free energy community.
It is my hope that we some day "stumble" upon a power source that
we can open source for the best of all mankind. I will do my part.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: powercat on December 27, 2009, 04:24:45 PM
Wonderful news, congratulations Alex, well deserved.
 :)
cat
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 13, 2010, 09:47:48 PM
Hello . Well I have the Controller today and am commencing with running the device fully automated and hopefully self running without any interaction from humans . I will post in a day or so the build as it stands  ..
gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on January 13, 2010, 10:29:26 PM
@gadgetmall,

I'm currently populating a Plexiglas plate for your new G-1301-XS Joule Thief.
I'm using a 4500mAh NiMeH battery and is charging the battery now. Has
to hook up the bcap and is almost ready to start testing.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 14, 2010, 01:04:18 AM
Good Deal Alex . i have to get some stand offs and some hardware . I might buy a special case for the third one . for now its hooked up and firing a 1 watt led . Can i ask what is the programmed Voltage  setting for load firing high and cut off volts again ?   Also i tried a dead battery in it and it was charging so the regenerative part is working  as it when i put the new battery in the cap started to charge but its also firing a load when connected , bcap volts are 2.41 and battery is 1.37 .  recharged conditioned ni/mh and starting count down for play time soon . . for now i need to learn  the limits so ill be playing with the 1 watt led and pelitier module  then hook up the actual filament bulbs with a fresh recharged Enigerizer i have conditioned with the Bedini and it hot to trot ! I got almost 7 weeks on the otehr unit without the controller board just doing it manually  and also it was drawing much more than this unit . Draw on this Jt is 3 ma  the 7 week one was 13 ma so i have a good feeling that this will run months i hope . We will see. !! I am going to populate two more if i can snag some surface mount resistors and caps off some junk i have . The Max chips i have , They can also be got FREE from a source i have. The Pic is another story . I might ask Alex if i send some to him with return shipping to program them or there are plans for the  pic programmer here also code included ! It's not that hard to build one .
Update . Batt is still 1.37 and a good sign the circuit is not draining the battery . Bcap will take a long time to get this down to the cut off point of 1.5 volts for the bcap to shut off load so might be tomorrow before i know for sure . I think i will buy some small panel meters to keep tabs on in and out volts and put a piece of lexan on top of this box . i also fused the bcap . I think this important as the high amps could start a fire if something goes amuck !.

 
Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 14, 2010, 01:15:20 AM
@ ALL  Group Members interested  in replicating this Circuit i Have Some Boards Groundloop made and am offering some to Experimenters who would like to replicate this device . They are unpopulated and i have a limited quantity . If you Pm me i will give you one with the condition that you use it  for replications. Please Serious Replicators only !


Alex . I reread and I am not sure it is operating at the specs . I will repost :Circuit should use minimum current from AA battery.
My circuit uses less than 0,7mA.

Circuit should have a automatically feed back that could charge the AA battery from the BCAP.
My circuit will automatically feed back current to AA battery when AA battery voltage
has dropped to 1,3 Volt (adjustable) AND BCAP has a charge voltage higher than the AA battery.
The base current to the NPN transistor is not wasted and will also charge the AA battery.
The maximum charge current is limited by the transistor HFE (20).
The base current are (5/270)/2 = 0,009 Amp. so max. feed back charge current is 0,185 Amp.
This is a safe charge current for a NiMeH AA battery. (/2 is because PWM control with 50% duty.)

Circuit should have a automatically discharge from BCAP to load.
My circuit will automatically discharge the BCAP to load when the BCAP has reached approx. 2,5 volt.
The discharge will automatically stop when the BCAP reach approx. 1,5 volt. This threshold voltage
was selected bacause we always want the BCAP voltage to be higher than the AA voltage so that
we can get a feed back charge to AA battery when needed. The maximum discharge current is only
limited to the pcb tracks ability to conduct current AND the max. N-mosfet current ability. This is
estimated to be approx. 40 ampere pulsed with 50% duty cycle.

mine is firing around 2.45 i will see if the cut off is within specs . if not could you tell me what i need to do to resolve is anything .. thanks .

Edit . Ok i loaded the bcap down becuase the 1 watt Jt i had connected to the load was just not bring that bcap down fase enuff so i put a load over the bcap . bad mistake there as the bcap eventually dropped to 1.399 and the load switch was still on . i disconnected the load from across the bcap and then the load switch switch off:) Whee! Its charging and the batt is 1.34  so i must have triggered the recharge circuit at the same time the load was firing or something . I know know to ONLY put the load on the load output terminals . It looks GOOD !!! i will start with a fresh charged aa battery and 2 lamps just like yours so we are on the same page . Hey Please check that JT and see if my measurements are off like in the video i did of it . I assume the toroid was not broken because i reinforced it with packing  to protect it this time around . thank you Alex . here it is with the filament bulb and the other lights running is sweet oscillators off !


Gadget 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on January 14, 2010, 06:26:35 AM
Albert,

The voltage level for "dump to load" can vary a little due to the "spiky"
nature of the JT output. The micro controller will try to do the discharge
at 2,5 volt but noise on the voltage sampling can throw this off a bit. The
important part is to keep the two voltage levels inside the safe operation
area of the Bcap. Tests I have done indicate that it will happen near the 2,5
volt level and the discharge will go on until the 1,5 volt level. This way we keep
the voltage on the Bcap higher than the input battery, and we also make sure
we never over charge the Bcap.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on January 14, 2010, 01:09:24 PM
Hi Gadget I would like the circuit but don't know exactly how to programme that chip that Groundloop was doing :-\
I already build the charger but it takes quite a long time to charge that Ucap.
Right now I have build the Rosemary heater circuit and doing tests on this.
Thanks
Andrew
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 14, 2010, 03:01:44 PM
Hi Gadget I would like the circuit but don't know exactly how to programme that chip that Groundloop was doing :-\
I already build the charger but it takes quite a long time to charge that Ucap.
Right now I have build the Rosemary heater circuit and doing tests on this.
Thanks
Andrew
Hi andrew ! . Well al the information to build the programmer and the program is here in the last 7 pages of this thread . IT is not that complicated to build a programmer and run the pic program to load the pic code . I will have to build one myself  and if i see a need i can sell the programmed PICs and the max chip . BTW . the max chip can be got for free as a sample from www.maxim-ic.com
.
I have about 10 more boards left after yesterday . I can give it to you for free if you are in the US . If you not then all i ask is postage .

Gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on January 14, 2010, 08:18:10 PM
Hi andrew ! . Well al the information to build the A and the program is here in the last 7 pages of this thread . IT is not that complicated to build a programmer and run the pic program to load the pic code . I will have to build one myself  and if i see a need i can sell the programmed PICs and the max chip . BTW . the max chip can be got for free as a sample from www.maxim-ic.com
.
I have about 10 more boards left after yesterday . I can give it to you for free if you are in the US . If you not then all i ask is postage .

Gadget

Thanks Gadget no I am not in US I am from Malta EU. It's ok I'll pay for postage yes.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 15, 2010, 02:05:18 AM
This is the current test setup . I am still taging trigger voltages ,etc. Its a fun project. !
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 15, 2010, 07:15:45 AM
If any other Serious Experimentors are willing to replicate this circuit or the feedback circuit i still have some boards left to give away with instructions and parts list  and all of Groundloops freeware information as well as mine compiled in an rar file for the experimetors who get the Boards . I also can supply you with a PIC programmer pre built if you dont want to tackle that part . they are 25.00 plus S/h  or you can build one . I have some 1500 farad Maxwell ultracaps also still availible on My site .

gadget
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 15, 2010, 07:24:21 AM
Al:

I had posted in the other topic that I would be interested in working on this project.  PM me for any details you need from me.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: gadgetmall on January 15, 2010, 10:19:16 PM
Hi Bill ! . Ok you got on e. Please Pm Me or better you have my private email  just send me your address again and i'll send you a link with all the projects files compiled for the Boards  / i will send you one No problem . !!.
Thanks

 Albert
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 16, 2010, 05:19:49 AM
Thanks Al.

Will do.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on January 21, 2010, 12:08:42 AM
http://www.matri-x.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/1028-%d0%ba%d0%b0%d1%87%d0%b5%d1%80%d1%8b-1-%d1%84%d0%b8%d0%b7%d0%b8%d1%87%d0%b5%d1%81%d0%ba%d0%b8%d0%b9-%d0%bd%d0%b5%d0%be%d0%ba%d0%bb%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%81%d0%b8%d1%86%d0%b8%d0%b7%d0%bc/



Russian to English translationShow romanization
mag (18.5.2009, 2:29), wrote:

In general, we have a colleague (Diaven) thought that the electric current does not flow of electrons, and the flow Fiton which electrons are driven into conductors (they themselves IIM second move, if not moving), but there is no vortex rotation Fiton! While this version

This is one key point with which I completely agree.
Please the audience to focus on this particular attention.
The fact that there is at the end of the coil Kacher and have agents all kinds elektropotokov (ie kinetic energy) and elektropotentsialov (ie potential energy)
IS WHAT TO LOADING CAPACITORS!


Russian to English translationShow romanization
So:
Kacher is based on the transistor during operation located in the cutoff (at the start of the first pulse active mode then the m-p is always locked.)
Will not go into what is already known.
Consider the fact that escaped the attention of experimentalists.
Workers are the results of the periodic pulses breakdown locked transistor.
Period tied up to the length of the second coil of wire (waveguide) at low power to 1 / 4 lengths.
At high power levels may result in additional nodes along the length of the coil.
The pulse duration is --- or rather the ultra-short.
Receives periodic pulses with very high porosity.
Furthermore.
A single pulse has a continuous frequency spectrum --- almost infinite in width.
But we have repeated series of pulses.

This changes the frequency spectrum - a spectrum of continuous turns in the comb - we have the energy distribution of pulses at different frequencies.
How can emit a lot of frequencies are effectively at the same time?
Linear conductor, even in the usual retinue solenoid pulse is not transmitted are effectively.
The transfer function of demand all conventional emitters is very low.
To send the effective value of the delta impulse in the environment requires unusual radiator - waveguide in which the phase velocity of the spectral signal components much smaller than in normal medium.
This waveguide is a spiral coil.

I'll describe more accessible:
Mentally divide the coil turns will get N emitters of different diameters
Each transmitter has its own frequency response (where N is the number of turns in the coil).
In the spiral coil transfer function for a delta pulse almost ~ 1.
Everything that is valid for a pulse with very short duration tends to 0.
This impact generates a shock fronts of longitudinal waves in an elastic medium (air, vacuum)
So I wrote about it on the branch of "oddities with bits" (p.171)
So if you see where the cone or spiral coil or waveguides is aware of the momentum transfer.
In Egypt, there are pictures wands in the form of a spiral pulse sacred technology (Wands of Horus).
Why sacred?
Because of the momentum effect it hidden super and super opportunities for energy.
Many authors hide it form their designs for this reason.
The geometry can affect the essence.
The fact that Kacher observed eddy processes also do not see eye, but can be attentive, logically understand. About wave longitudinal wave processes around Kacher yet little is written.
If possible, continue with Kacher I will try to lay out Pobol in this direction, because it is not discussed yet no where. Form field around the coils depends on their geometry.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: lasersaber on January 24, 2010, 12:11:53 AM
Hi Albert,

I built two of your 650F capacitor chargers and they both work!  One I built with parts on hand and the other I used your exact parts list.  I have been able to recharge the cap above 2.5 volts multiple times with very little drop in volts on my 1.2 volt AA battery.  My only problem is that it takes over four days to charge up from .500 volts.  Can you tell me what the voltage and milliamps should be at the charging points indicated by the red arrows in this picture?  I have noted that when I connect the LED on the secondary that the voltage at the charging output points indicated by red arrows drops dramatically.  I really need to figure out what I am doing wrong that makes this charge so slow.

At what voltage should the LED come on?

Thanks for sharing this great little gizmo.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on February 01, 2010, 10:25:49 AM
@All,

Attached is a zipped file containing the newest software for the feed back circuit.
For those of you that got a pcb from Gadget, please use a power NPN TO-220 type
transistor (MJ3055 or similar) instead of the IRF4905 as shown in the circuit drawing.

Also remember to cross the collector and emitter pins on the power NPN transistor before
inserting into the pcb for soldering. Remember to insulate one of the transistor pins with
a plastic tube or similar so that you avoid a short circuit between pins.

Use insulation for both the power mosfet and the power transistor on the heat sink.

Use a small light bulb on the load output. I use two 2,5 volt 0,2 amp bulbs in parallel.
The bulbs is there for a safety reason to prevent over charging of the bcap. The new software
will automatic turn on the discharge to load if the bcap reach 2,6 volt. The discharge turns off
at 2,59 volt.

The feed back from bcap to input AA battery will happen when the AA battery drops in voltage.
This voltage threshold is set by adjusting the variable resistor on the board. If the bcap has
a lower voltage than 1,7 volt, then no feed back to AA battery will happen.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on February 06, 2010, 09:43:54 PM
@All,

Attached is a zipped file containing the newest software for the feed back circuit.

The new software has reduced the feed back circuit current usage.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 06, 2010, 10:15:01 PM
@All,

The new software has reduced the feed back circuit current usage.

Groundloop.

Groundloop;

Sort of as advertising...What is your opinion; "Is the JT showing overunity?"
Have you tried a normal electrolytic cap. in place of the Bcap. Does the
Bcap draw out more overunity energy from the JT then it would without it?
Does a non-rechargable (carbon/zinc) AA battery work Ok with your circuit?
Finally, can a large normal electrolytic cap. work in place of the battery?
(with inclusion of push-to-start switch before the battery).

I'm asking these questions since you presumably had some time to see
the JT in action. Thank you.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on February 06, 2010, 10:38:12 PM
@mscoffman,

It was not until recently that I got the feed back circuit to run OK.

So the testing has just started. I have also worked on getting down the
current usage to the feed back circuit. Right now it is 7mA from the input
and that is WAY to high. My goal was less than 1mA usage. The PIC16F88
is a Nano Watt device, so I'm working on a new software that uses sleep
to get the power usage down. Unfortunately the pic mcu requires an external
clock crystal of 32KHz to be able to enter a low power sleep mode. So I'm
planning to try that out by soldering the xtal on the underside of the pcb.

I have tried a normal (16000uF 25V) electrolytic cap on the output
and the process was under unity.

I have not tried a normal not rechargeable battery on the circuit.
I have not tried a normal electrolytic capacitor on the input to the circuit.

Now to you question:
"Does the Bcap draw out more overunity energy from the JT then it would without it?"

That is what I want to find out, but first the current usage of the feed back circuit MUST be
tuned down to approx. 1mA or less draw from the input battery.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 06, 2010, 11:42:52 PM
@mscoffman,

It was not until recently that I got the feed back circuit to run OK.

So the testing has just started. I have also worked on getting down the
current usage to the feed back circuit. Right now it is 7mA from the input
and that is WAY to high. My goal was less than 1mA usage. The PIC16F88
is a Nano Watt device, so I'm working on a new software that uses sleep
to get the power usage down. Unfortunately the pic mcu requires an external
clock crystal of 32KHz to be able to enter a low power sleep mode. So I'm
planning to try that out by soldering the xtal on the underside of the pcb.


Groundloop.

Thank you again for your comments. Sounds like my thinking is getting slightly ahead
of the situation here; Sorry. Yes, I was considering a dual clock solution for
the microcontroller so it could coast at very low power until it found a specific
condition then speed up to 20Mhz or whatever to resolve it.  Definitely
power factoring. Your work has been excellent so far. Please keep some
of these questions in mind for future comment, if you will.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 07, 2010, 06:32:37 AM
hello
no high voltage section in this forum.. man what gives..??
this isn't a joule theif .. but it was once the second stage to my jt..

the first video is a bulb lite.. nothing kool.. but it is bright enough

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLDlTv5YGw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLDlTv5YGw)

and the second video is just high voltage fun..
but be warned that it is high voltage and could kill.. trust me!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n04977vS6b4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n04977vS6b4)

stay safe and have fun

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Groundloop on February 07, 2010, 06:32:39 PM
@All,

I have done a HW modification to the feed back circuit. I have added a 32KHz crystal to RB6 and RB7 pins
together with two 33pF ceramic to ground. Then I have configured the new attached software so that
the circuit uses ONLY 0,6mA as an average from the input battery. See attached drawings. One good
source for a 32KHz clock crystal is from old PC motherboards. See photo of the xtal so that you know
what to look for. I must stress that this new version 1.7 software will ONLY run if there are a 32KHz
crystal soldered to RA6 and RA 7 pins on the PIC16F88. The crystal and capacitors can be soldered on
the underside of the pcb.

Alex.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 07, 2010, 09:33:03 PM
hello
no high voltage section in this forum.. man what gives..??
this isn't a joule theif .. but it was once the second stage to my jt..

the first video is a bulb lite.. nothing kool.. but it is bright enough


robbie
Robbie,
It is in the solid state section where a hi voltage thing that starts with more than a single AA battery goes.
The original place for the jt thread was there until it got so big itself that it got a section.
Please start a HV jt thread or something like that and give the specs.

or just give them here.
I saw the dc to dc converter there, so maybe that is at the heart of it?

I wonder what one of my jt with 1000v secondaries would look like with 6 volts to start it?

Do you have one like mine that you could try with 6 volts. I do not have the dc to dc converter .
And, even so, I would like to see the circuit. The light is steady on, and that is my ticket for starters.

thanks,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 08, 2010, 01:41:47 AM
jeanna
you can make any toroid run higher volts.. more collector windings

but didn't you have a tor60 that put alot out... it just all about charging the cap as fast as you can..
but i think i noticed that it isn't the size of the cap but the frequency it discharges..
the large caps are slower to respond..

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 08, 2010, 02:50:43 AM
Thanks kooler,
I was just trying to squeeze the information from allaboutcircuits today.
I really want to know the simplest thing. It is so simple that nobody thinks I am asking it because it is such a well understood thing.

OK
I know about the time constants.
I know I need to find the right speed charge and throw a switch or like that to empty the cap then it will drop out from the cap and then reset the switch and it will refill.

I also understand that an inductor will act like both the resistor and the switch allowing the cap to fill then discharge.


I am asking how you put these things together.
I do not know how to draw the circuit so that what dumps out from the cap goes where I want it which is the lamp.
I understand the volts and freq of the cap and inductor is the fiddly part. but where is the lamp?
Is the lamp in the same spot and so parallel with the legs of both inductor and cap? Is the lamp in series to those after they do their work?- that is how I had it in my ac from jt circuit.

Since it is fiddly, it is really hard to know if I have put the pieces together wrong when nothing happens, because it could just be that I need to fiddle more.
But, if the pieces need to go together differently, then no amount of fiddling will help me.
OR
Is this such a complex problem that nobody else knows the answer either.
I am starting to suspect the latter.
Today, you got a steady light (no visible pulses) from a bulb.
You called it nothing special.
ummmmm
Can you help me do that or is this something that dc to dc converter did for you, and it was just drawing lots of amps from your battery?

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: xee2 on February 08, 2010, 03:28:38 AM
@ kooler

hello
no high voltage section in this forum.. man what gives..??
this isn't a joule theif .. but it was once the second stage to my jt..

the first video is a bulb lite.. nothing kool.. but it is bright enough

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLDlTv5YGw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLDlTv5YGw)

and the second video is just high voltage fun..
but be warned that it is high voltage and could kill.. trust me!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n04977vS6b4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n04977vS6b4)

stay safe and have fun

robbie

I missed this since I do not check this thread often. But now I found it. Great stuff. Are you feeding the flyback with 1000 volts? It sure makes some nice sparks. Thanks for the videos.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 09, 2010, 12:34:48 AM
jeanna
i will post a diagram soon.. the ccfl driver puts off a perfect sine wave then i put a 1n4007 diode
at 5 volts the ccfl driver puts out alittle over 1kv so 6 volts gives.. ?? lol

xee2
i was dumping 960-980 volts thru the triac.. then i blew a cap.. they are rated for 630v dc

but the circuit is dumping around 300 volts the best i can tell in both videos..
i was thinking that was still 980v both i forgot i took the sidac off the neons..
more to come..

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on February 09, 2010, 09:41:21 PM
Hi Kooler once you posted a schematic of a JT with TIP31c and consuption was 0.016ma only. Is there other transistors or near that consumes that much?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 10, 2010, 01:19:20 AM
hello guruji
the mpsa06 works good for some reason. i think it cause it cuts off real sharp..


robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 10, 2010, 07:48:14 AM
hello all
this is the basic circuit lighting a bulb.. using the jt
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 10, 2010, 07:52:51 AM
kooler:

Nice circuit.  How bright would you saw the bulb is?  That is really something, nice job.

Bill
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 10, 2010, 08:09:23 AM
kooler:

Nice circuit.  How bright would you saw the bulb is?  That is really something, nice job.

Bill

its about 30% brighter than sticking in the 120 outlet..
i been blowing those 1n4007 diodes so when i get some xtra time i will put a diode from a microwave the 12000v type and try it again..
i haven't really fine tuned it yet. i knew there was a few people wanting to see this circuit light a bulb so i just threw it together and video it..
you have to add some more collector windings to use 6volts with the jt.. but those big toroids really hiss loud with 5-6 volts.. that why i used the ccfl driver.. the battery in the video is a 6 volt type but only has 5.6 volts in it..

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 10, 2010, 08:24:46 AM
Thank you robbie,

Do you happen to know the volts and frequency coming off the toroid?
I might have the parts I need, if the triacs I got are good enough. I have some high turn toroids and maybe I can just go ahead with this.
Thank you for this clear circuit,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 10, 2010, 02:56:31 PM
  I was reading back in the JT thread that someone had got a stepper motor running with the JT.  I'll try to track that down, now. 
Exciting...
SM
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 10, 2010, 03:52:56 PM
hello all
this is the basic circuit lighting a bulb.. using the jt

@kooler

These circuits are amazing...Could you give the current in ma. coming
from a specific battery? Thanks you for posting the schematic.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 11, 2010, 02:35:49 AM

Do you happen to know the volts and frequency coming off the toroid?

jeanna

the toroid i have will charge a cap alittle passed 1200v dc.. but once this circuit is running i can't get my scope near it.. it will start giving weird readings without hooking the probe up thats 2-4 feet away.. this is the same scope i have if anyone know how i can shield it
http://www.tequipment.net/Velleman_hps10se.html (http://www.tequipment.net/Velleman_hps10se.html)

@kooler

These circuits are amazing...Could you give the current in ma. coming
from a specific battery? Thanks you for posting the schematic.

:S:MarkSCoffman

this video shows the power of this circuit plus the ma's from a 1.5v d cell battery
but the 6 volt i was using had 5.6 volts left in it .. and it drawed 68 ma's with the ccfl driver
but i need to tweak the ccfl circuit some more.. i bet i can get the ma's way down..
plus it has one hv out pin and it has a perfect sinewave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pM3KhV8daw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pM3KhV8daw)

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 11, 2010, 05:47:43 AM
the toroid i have will charge a cap alittle passed 1200v dc.. but once this circuit is running i can't get my scope near it.. it will start giving weird readings without hooking the probe up thats 2-4 feet away.. this is the same scope i have if anyone know how i can shield it
http://www.tequipment.net/Velleman_hps10se.html (http://www.tequipment.net/Velleman_hps10se.html)
robbie
No, you answered that question.
Please keep the scope safe.

I am still puzzled about 2 things.
why you are running 4 neons and not an additional filament or even halogen bulb? Is this still not able to run a filament bulb here?

and

If you blow the 4w filament bulb can you not solve this problem with a 7w bulb?
Or does it refuse to light when it is higher than 4w?

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 12, 2010, 01:15:41 AM
jeanna
the neons are for triggering the triac
so if you had one neon on it, it would open at 90-100 volt.. once the cap charge up to the required volts you want.. so if you had two neons in a series .. the triac would dump the capacitor at 150-180 volts
and 5 neons in series will dump around 280-295 volts..

for some reason the neons trigger the triac better than a diac or sidac..
just keep in mind that once a scr or triac open .. they won't close till the capacitor is empty..
so even if you can charge a high micro farad cap really fast you still won't be able to dump it at a high frequency..

this has been a trial and error circuit for me.. mainly because i don't know the math.. haha

out
robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 12, 2010, 01:40:40 AM
jeanna
the neons are for triggering the triac
so if you had one neon on it, it would open at 90-100 volt.. once the cap charge up to the required volts you want.. so if you had two neons in a series .. the triac would dump the capacitor at 150-180 volts
and 5 neons in series will dump around 280-295 volts..

for some reason the neons trigger the triac better than a diac or sidac..
just keep in mind that once a scr or triac open .. they won't close till the capacitor is empty..
so even if you can charge a high micro farad cap really fast you still won't be able to dump it at a high frequency..

this has been a trial and error circuit for me.. mainly because i don't know the math.. haha

out
robbie
Good.
I guess I was thinking a smaller value cap would work better, because it could fill and dump faster.
This is not a dc circuit and the charge can go back and forth across a point in the wire, and could have the same effect on the filament as all one way.
I say faster since it doesn't need  to be a lot of charge if it is repeated fast.
That is what I think you are doing/showing.

So, what happens with  4700pF, or 680pf or even a 100pF.
they may be too small, but they may have the speed.
They may be found in the  cfl circuits ??

I am playing around with the trial and error too.
The information to calculate this is around, but it is never put together for this purpose.

So, since your little 4w bulb lights up, that means that you have .4amps passing the wires, which means the .043uF (=43,000pF or '433' ) cap is passing the 0.4A charge along fast enough to light the lamp steadily.
Can you put a different cap in there a smaller one and have it fill and dump twice as fast and end up with enough for an 8w bulb... then what for a 10w, 25w etc.

It is possible that this is as high as you can go, but I see evidence of more voltage in your circuit and that is another reason why I think you can go smaller.

If someone wants to check my math esp the decimals, and help further with the figuring I/we will be very grateful. If not, i will continue anyway.

I am working with a plain secondary and I may need to add your triac to be up to speed here.
Right now my scope batteries are charging.

Kooler, I am so glad you are doing this!
thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 12, 2010, 02:17:56 AM
Here Kooler,
http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm (http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm)
I made the sliders go to sort of match your cap and 43mA, then I made a smaller inductor and the mA went up and smaller again and the mA went still higher. The freq is in the upper right hand corner. That tells a tale too.

See what you think.

jeanna
the last one is 400mA just from changing the inductor value!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 12, 2010, 05:09:29 AM
Kooler,
   Don't know if you've noticed, but you are using KV and Gadget is not, which is a good way to test weather or not KV expands/enlarges the energy field, adds energy (Don Smith's OU Claim).   
  Many thanks for all of your work here.  Anxious....
Cheers,
Mikey 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 12, 2010, 07:19:47 PM
Kooler,
   Don't know if you've noticed, but you are using KV and Gadget is not, which is a good way to test weather or not KV expands/enlarges the energy field, adds energy (Don Smith's OU Claim).   
  Many thanks for all of your work here.  Anxious....
Cheers,
Mikey

I think high voltage as it increases in voltage towards
static electricity levels of about 10KV, does indeed invoke
another kind of OU process based in what is called
"free electrons" in the environment. I kind of like the
lowest voltage JT experiments because they don't
invoke HV and then I will know that the JT OU is based
differently then in the free electron type of overunity.
Later these two can be combined.

The logic of this is that non-atomic bound electrons in free
space repel each other rather drastically and shoot away,
because they are very lightweight. But triboelectric charges,
essentially large collections of electrons, attract even more
from the environment making an even bigger electron cloud.
My feeling is that HV free electron collection is essentially
an inherent OU process. The more a circuit moves towards
HV the more it can invoke "free electron" processes. This is
why in ignition coil experiments (30KV) they show very large
numbers of converted cfl's can be strung together along a
wire and yet they still light up. Each wire segment and cfl
attracts new free electrons along the way making the energy
essentially somewhat self restoring.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 12, 2010, 07:49:01 PM
What about particles turning to waves?
It is my opinion that this is what happens at any (back)spike.
Sometimes you can see the spike go off the screen at the top and return from off the screen on the bottom.
I cannot argue physics and so I avoid the conversation, but when the math goes to infinity as it does on the pickup,  even in the low voltage jt circuits, this needs to be considered.

This is only my opinion, no more facts or any kind of proof.

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 12, 2010, 10:24:22 PM
What about particles turning to waves?
It is my opinion that this is what happens at any (back)spike.
Sometimes you can see the spike go off the screen at the top and return from off the screen on the bottom.
I cannot argue physics and so I avoid the conversation, but when the math goes to infinity as it does on the pickup,  even in the low voltage jt circuits, this needs to be considered.

This is only my opinion, no more facts or any kind of proof.

jeanna

In my opinion it looks to me as if the toroid as kind of a optimal transformer
is circulating currents that when the pulse load is placed on the output coil
causes more instantaneously circulating currents rather then less. It looks
as if current under load in a toroid causes propagation of energy rather than
it's depletion as it should under conservative energetic understanding. How
else can you light a four watt lamp with 1/3 watt input power continuously?
You know I'm not talking about the 1.5Volt battery. A four watt incandescent
lamp is still only 5% optically efficient so it will not be part of an energy
recovery system, but led bulbs and cfl's are unusually efficient. And *your*
circuits drive those loads seemingly as well.

So keep up the good work...but I can't explain what you guys seem to
be showing, conventionally. These lighting of lamps with lower amounts
of energy have direct applicability in electric automobiles, by the way.
Even if some component is being stressed and eventually needs to
be replaced, it seems worthwhile.

Does the battery need to see the pulses to excite some exotic
chemistry? That's easy enough to try by using a low value resister
and electrolytic capacitor.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 13, 2010, 05:45:22 AM
hello
i will probably work on this circuit some more this weekend.. try some different caps and work on the ccfl circuit to see if i can improve it..
and to see what else this circuit board will do on 6 volts..
it took me a couple of trys to get it to 68ma's.. hoping i can get it lower
ah well.. i keep you guys posted

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 13, 2010, 06:18:03 AM
Kooler,
Would you do me a biggie, please?
I wonder what your secondary puts out through all those things when you start with a 1.2 or 1.5v battery.
This information will really help me, and I am sure your scope can do it??
I hope?

thanks,

jeanna

edit,
I was thinking about mark's new coil and it made me wonder if you are using thick secondary wire?
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 13, 2010, 07:18:05 AM
jeanna
are you talking about the ccfl driver circuit.. running with a 1.5 battery

or my 3.3'' toroid  ( jeanna style ) jt
it has 26 awg secondary and a 18 awg litz primary

let me know i will stick the oscope on it and take a pic or video tomorrow..

oh.. if you are wanting me to scope the output of the discharging cap.. my scope won't read it

let me know

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 13, 2010, 07:53:24 AM
....
oh.. if you are wanting me to scope the output of the discharging cap.. my scope won't read it

robbie
I was thinking that since you cannot get near it with 6 volts, maybe you can with 1.2v.
I certainly don't want you to damage your scope.

What about putting the scope on each leg of the filament wire? Is that too hot too?

Thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 13, 2010, 08:49:47 AM

Posted this in the Jule Thief thread, really belongs here:

Identified the neon cap charger trick; and it shows several workarounds. Reminds me of capacitor timer circuits, use the discharge timeframe on one to charge another. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relaxation_oscillator

Mikey
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 13, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
I was thinking that since you cannot get near it with 6 volts, maybe you can with 1.2v.
I certainly don't want you to damage your scope.

What about putting the scope on each leg of the filament wire? Is that too hot too?

Thank you,

jeanna

note:
(transformer turns ratio) 270/2 = 135to1 x (unipolar) 6Vdc = 810Vac pp (peak-to-peak).
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 15, 2010, 06:54:08 AM
@all
 a 60 watt is a bit more of a pain to light due to it's low resistance to light up .. once i get the ma's draw down and it is safer, i will post a good schematic.. but right now there r some safety issues.. or i just been having a bad couple of days..
my whole goal is to make something that you could run on a solar panel for days even if the sun hasn't been out..
it always good to dream.. right
i would love to get it back down to a AA battery.. but with this it is too much ma's

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: friendryan on February 15, 2010, 11:51:57 PM
I have read the first 25 pages of this post.....then I skipped around because I haven't seen anyone replicate the simple circuit this whole thread started from.....Wasn't it the OU prize? I saw some serious confidence about how simple it is, that it will be won so easily, and now I see that this thing is trying to run with diff parts, diff setup, and a whole lot of tangents away from it...so could someone save me the rest of the reading and let me know if anyone replicated this circuit and did the OU prize get won?...This has been going on for months and for such a simple OU design it sure seems like the rest of the other threads. Did anyone ever truly measure input over time vs out put over time...thanks......
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 16, 2010, 01:48:12 AM
@all
 a 60 watt is a bit more of a pain to light due to it's low resistance to light up .. once i get the ma's draw down and it is safer, i will post a good schematic.. but right now there r some safety issues.. or i just been having a bad couple of days..robbie

@Robbie;

You have an excellent point. Incandescent lamps have what is
called :"negative resistance". They start out at very low ohms
and only increase in resistance once they heat up. So they
have a high starting current...like AC motors. They also tend
to burnout during this time.

This is an unusual feature in electronics components
and can be used to help stabilise a system that has
voltage variations...the problem is it's hard to know
what their impedance is at any one time so they
are bad for determining exact wattage dissipation.
As well as their tendency to emit heat and IR rather
than light. So I like leds and CLF's, but they do form
an historical load experience base.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on February 16, 2010, 02:16:32 AM
I have read the first 25 pages of this post.....then I skipped around because I haven't seen anyone replicate the simple circuit this whole thread started from.....


I agree with you, the fact is that experimenters don't often do very
good advertising...Every once in a while they should put together
a page of text and links pointing to their very best recent solution,
and statement in good English stating about what they think they
have accomplished, without this,  development become almost like
a secret, they don't want to brag about the results and they get
understated, and newby's are cut out. I guess the solution is to
continue to study the thread for a while. There *is* a JT circuit
schematic in the middle of this thread, that contains the JT
circuit with some additional circuitry. Just delete the additional
circuitry...and there it is.  ;) But it then doesn't tell you how to
wind the toroid, and Jeana controls the best toroid design.

The second problem is; This secondary microprocessor control
circuit is necessary to make the JT self running. That is, take
the JT's OU energy generated at time of use and restore it to
it's own battery as well as put excess energy into a supercap.
User Groundloop has done a really superb job on this control
circuit and this firmware. I'm sure he'll report his progress,
and you are right, once he does this I feel the circuit should
be ready ready for the "about one watt OU prize". Energy
has a time derivative so one can use a couple of 110V alarm
clocks to prove OU on you-tube. It has yet to be done
though.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 16, 2010, 02:58:09 AM
i need to make my own thread.. even know they said i wasn't bother them
so i think i will make my thread called (koolers second stage joule thief circuits)
hahahaha.. ..
nah.. i will post somewere i am not getting in the way of their progress..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: jeanna on February 16, 2010, 03:01:20 AM
Hi friendryan,
Welcome to this thread.

That circuit is only one of several that take a regular jtc or one with a secondary to a different level.
Kooler's circuit really qualifies for another level.
And, xee2's with the second transistor. etc

Have you made a few jtc's and a few with secondaries?
If not there is no time like now.

There are a lot of people around who know how to make them and how to do special things with them.
As far as I know, everyone is still following their interests and sharing their results.

Please join and share too,

jeanna
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 17, 2010, 04:28:17 PM

Stiffler Video....
He calls this a "Big Heat Producer".
What kind of heat are we talking about here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM

Regards,
Mikey...
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 18, 2010, 01:02:28 AM
i think he is calling high voltage .. ( heat ) for some reason..
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 18, 2010, 08:58:17 AM

Just a note, a heads up...
Davro Video, he is creating SEC receivers which are also "repeaters", have their own trigger coils.  I think this is a real biggie, unlimited current and current magnification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A

M
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 22, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
Kooler,

   Was thinking that your secondaries experiment might be a good opportunity to test one of those $15 ceiling fans on 1.5v.  The rotoverter uses both start and run caps.  You're the man...

   My Goldmine order should be here in the next day or so, will duplicate your filament bulb JT.

Mikey
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: kooler on February 23, 2010, 06:44:30 AM
mikey
 i got something big coming soon.. if all goes well..
but i will have to post it somewere else .. in the forum..
or make a new thread.. cause it has 5 stages..
but this one i am going to get it near perfect before i post a schematic..
for safety reasons..
i will have to look up the rotoverter and see whats that about..
if you decide to light regular bulb the biggest feat is to get the amp draw down .. its like art.. it takes very fine detail..
out

robbie
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: sirmikey1 on February 23, 2010, 11:55:48 PM

The JT evolves...

"Where's the Beef?"  ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aISkVvi5iI8

Thanks,
M
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Tassie Mike on March 24, 2010, 10:59:51 AM
Hi Ladies and Gents!

Just a thought about circuits, Please draw your own with ruler and good clean high contrast medium, sign it, scan it and then use a jpg to post.

So many difficulties with various computer drawings that will lead to mistakes that cost replicators time energy frustration and sometimes the feeling that they have been conned.

Cheers, don't stop innovating, specially you Jeanna!
 :)
Cheers all
Mike

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: NerzhDishual on March 29, 2010, 11:20:21 PM
Hi JT people,

Sorry, I have not read the zillions pages of the JT threads.
So, this could be off topic... :P

I have modified the Gadgetmall's 1.5 volt JT heater circuit:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8334.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8334.0)
Thanks Gadgetmall.

I can light 4 bright leds (or even more) and charge another AA batt.
I mean: the voltage of this (almost dead) second batt is increasing...
ex: 11.5 Volts to about 13 volts.
The voltage of the input batt is decreasing...
ex: 12.7 volts to about 12.5.

I will try to swap the batts and to self charge the input bat.

-------------------------------------------------------
Else:
How to measure the AL of a toroidal coil ?
Just wind few turns (N= 15 to 20).
Use an LCR meter to measure the inductance (L) of this coil.
Use this formulae L(nano Henries) = N*N * AL.
You will get a correct approximation of AL.

Very Best
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: mscoffman on March 30, 2010, 05:56:18 PM

...
I can light 4 bright leds (or even more) and charge another AA batt.
I mean: the voltage of this (almost dead) second batt is increasing...
ex: 11.5 Volts to about 13 volts.
The voltage of the input batt is decreasing...
ex: 12.7 volts to about 12.5.
...


@Nerzh,

By this quote do you mean: (A) "I use the exact same circuit for 12Volt
batteries"  or (B) "I placed the decimal point wrong; ie 11.5 = 1.15Vdc on
1.5volt battery"?

A) would be very hard on the Leds, IMHO.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: NerzhDishual on March 30, 2010, 07:27:23 PM

Oops ! Yes, you are right. Sorry.
I meant 1.xxx volts the decimal point was misplaced.
Sorry again.

Very Best.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 06, 2010, 10:19:41 PM
let's go gadgetMan let's go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHl_yHuQfnU

------------------------------

This is what I have from start :
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 06, 2010, 10:40:56 PM
Now for next step circuit.
I need to find parts (from what I have) (transistors , zinner diod) for most efficiency.
JTs coils + secondaries - on the next.

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 07, 2010, 02:54:19 AM
Just what comes to my mind: capacitor C2 was dumping feedback pulses power.
Need to check it.

---------------------

edited:
lucky, I don't break experiment, just remove C2. Frequency feedback pulse was dropped twice to 0.1Hz (1 pulse in 10 seconds)
Second JT was feeding first JT through C2.
I'll keep it ower night to see how mach will be dropped voltage, to compare with previous nights.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 10, 2010, 08:53:44 PM
Hi,  @all,
Just completed my first experiment. What I found: battery voltage much depends on the temperature.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Mk1 on April 10, 2010, 09:01:37 PM
@tysb3

Nice work ! keep it up .

I am planing a second stage also with my NPN PNP circuit , second stage powered by 2 jt ...

Mark
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 11, 2010, 08:46:50 PM
thanks, Mark.

@ all
Now I'm playing with parts of  double JT
Just connect mosfet. It's working !
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on April 12, 2010, 01:27:54 PM
Hi tysb what are you using on Q1 transistor?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 12, 2010, 03:22:46 PM
Hi guruji,
Now I'm keeping C5029
but I think, small power transistor is better.
Should be work any npn  transistor, only need to find which works more efficient.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: guruji on April 12, 2010, 08:07:54 PM
Hi tysb thanks so this charges the source batt? and where one puts leds with this circuit?
Thanks
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 12, 2010, 08:51:11 PM
Hi tysb thanks so this charges the source batt?

Hi guruji
I hope it will charge. Now it's only feedback. I dont have Ammetter.
Now what I have - source batt voltage drops from 1.393 to 1.390 in 24 hours.
If you want to play with LEDs, you can its connect where you want, like ordinary JT - transistors collectors, or wind secondaries coils

@ all some project
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 13, 2010, 09:20:34 PM
Hi
@ all

I replace IRF630 to IRF614.
Looks much better.
The pulses package is now almost twice as long.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 17, 2010, 03:18:01 AM
Hi,
@ all

This is some video:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01kHpPcjPDI

You can hear sound when feedback pulses package is going
First JTs curent is about 0.5 ma
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 18, 2010, 05:57:47 AM
Hi
@ all

I blow up my mofsets :(
and return to bipolar transistors.
It's looks working in similar efficiency with high resistens R2
Pulses package is shorter.
T2 parameters is critical. I try to wind JT coils to T2 - unsuccessful with this circuit parameters.
Looks need more inductance in the coils maybe  ???
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 20, 2010, 03:38:26 AM
Hi
@ all

Some photos, some video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7g9Wq0f03o
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 23, 2010, 04:54:51 AM
Hi
@ all

It's still not OU,
but maybe we are closer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV_DWJ7CB44

Now I have allegations about... triple    .........


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on April 23, 2010, 05:29:37 PM
i c everyone has been busy ... 

kooler 5 stages your nutz !  : )

tysb3

you seam keen ! 

i useing flb's for stage 2 as i get 1500vdc spikes per pulse from a 3/4 dead aaa : )

i have scoped it !  and this is on every single wire in the transformer im useing 2 bulb ballasts  so i have  4 pairs of  wires ..  fireing 1500 vdc from 1 pulse

from a depleated aa

so i made the mini power stack   just 2 main stages and a few aux stages .. 

sir it is ou ...  : )   BIG TIME

william
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: innovation_station on April 25, 2010, 08:30:13 AM
my stage 2 unit is really a stage 3 unit in my entire device ..  but it has many things in 1 unit

this is what it does

salt water cell  power source
freq convertor   like a joule thief
pulse motor / hf switcher machanical ...
kicker module 
OUTPUT

i built it in a stack i use a 12vdc battery for power source for the kicker bords it is recharged from the pulse motor and the salt water cell and solar ..  the pulse motor is powered from a boost cap wich is recharged from the freqcon! : )

i have built most of this already and am almost done ..  it is A LOT OF WORK !   

W


here is a video of the ist way stage 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_vIF_K3QSo
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on December 01, 2010, 07:21:57 PM
@ all Hi,
Thanks to wattsup and Magluvin for good ideas, -  SIDAC + ignition coil.
Now I  put on this JT, -  SIDAC + ignition coil + JT.
Now I dont need double JT because of SIDAC
I dont try it yet, because I dont have SIDAC and ignition coil,
but I will do it. 
 
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on December 01, 2010, 09:52:12 PM
you will not becomes enough voltage and power in Capacity, that the sidac can fire
this to ignition coil.

The pancake coil help nothing here.

Pese

Hi
thanks for comment.
this is yet only on idea stage. I check sidac for parameters. You could be right. they heave big leakage current at stand-offvoltage and perhaps to big breackdown voltage.
for start I find this ones: TRISIL LS5018B/LS5060B
Im not physicist. pancacke JT coil is for additional reiciving energy from addtional pancacke coil. on this I could be wrong.



Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Wolfgang29 on August 17, 2011, 09:21:09 AM
IST:

That statement means absolutely nothing and yes I and everyone reading this should demand that Gadget show some proof that he has over unity.  He doesn't have it and it is extremely unlikely that he is capable of proving it.  That's the case for you also.

Broli:

There are the right ways to learn and there are the wrong ways to learn.  Spending a hundred dollars and hundreds of hours building and testing something that doesn't even work is not the right way to learn.

MileHigh

Mile,
While I am new here, and I have not posted much, in the last two years through the help of this forum I have gone from knowing almost nothing of electronics to being able to understand and build such basic things as captrets, inverters, pwm's, solar chargers etc.
Your statement, "Spending a hundred dollars and hundreds of hours building and testing something that doesn't even work is not the right way to learn."  is a rather illogical one at best, and a pessimistically misguided one at worst. Your statement only functions on the assumption (or decision you have made) that this device does not function to its specs in the slightest. To which I must say that the burden of proof concerning this statement is solely upon your shoulders. Prove thoroughly that it is not. Additionally, the only way one can know with surety that something does work, and know which exact and specific parts to only ever use for that something, is if one already knows the outcome. And, I must say dear sir, experimentation is not exactly about what we know (or think we know, since your claim is unverified), experimentation is as much about taking a leap into the dark, and what we don't know. If we constantly walked into a lab TRULY knowing the answers, we would end all experimentation. its called experimentation, Not verification.
I would also hesitate to determine that there is a wrong or right way to learn something, and if my way should be imposed on you, or vice versa.
   Furthermore, your statement, " He doesn't have it and it is extremely unlikely that he is capable of proving it.  That's the case for you also." is not only an Ad Hominem argument,  but it is a statement which functions solely upon assumptions. People's interactions in life are largely influenced by how much they bring in from their past. Assumptions are at their core, guesses based on the past. At the end of the day, human beings dwell in slavery and oppression because one man is too afraid to give up his power over another, for fear of reprisals seen in the past. If only each side could fathom that the other wants peace and respite just as badly. This was the assumption of the cold war. This is the fallacy of assumptions: that all that has existed is all that can exist. We do not have to dwell in a world of pre-determined options, but rather a world of uncreated possibilities. If you drive forwards and look backwards, you will surely get a ding. My advice, without any judgement upon you, is to unclench your fist and your mind, and have a little faith in your fellow man. Be well. 8)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: FreqShift on July 23, 2013, 08:32:19 AM
Very True.
If one is close minded, one will never advance.

So what happened to this thread?

It started with something good, a practical purpose.

Then, inevitably, greed and the quest for the 'wholly prize' diluted and killed all progress?

Thanks again guys.

 >:(

Don't you see we are not getting anywhere,..  And will NEVER get anywhere because of this.

Forget a patent, it will get you no-where. There are already patents ! And 'where' are we?

Give me something practical ! Give me the device that heats an electric heater core 'efficiently'.
The cheap Ceramic Walmart heater would be nice.

Here are other great searches:  'Electric Heater Elements', or  'Heater Water Heater Elements'.

Forget the Peltier chip. They are Extremely inefficient.  20% at Best.

Someone, anyone?
-
-
-
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on March 11, 2019, 02:14:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCi2-6kAkqA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCi2-6kAkqAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rrgbQCImZI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rrgbQCImZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCi2-6kAkqAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rrgbQCImZI)
https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=38902 (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=38902https://alltransistors.com/crsearch.php?mat=Si&struct=NPN&pc=0.5&ucb=30&uce=30&ueb=3&ic=0.3&tj=175&ft=200&cc=15&hfe=10)
https://alltransistors.com/crsearch.php?mat=Si&struct=NPN&pc=0.5&ucb=30&uce=30&ueb=3&ic=0.3&tj=175&ft=200&cc=15&hfe=10 (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=38902https://alltransistors.com/crsearch.php?mat=Si&struct=NPN&pc=0.5&ucb=30&uce=30&ueb=3&ic=0.3&tj=175&ft=200&cc=15&hfe=10)
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: PARAV on March 11, 2019, 10:51:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCi2-6kAkqA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCi2-6kAkqAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rrgbQCImZI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rrgbQCImZI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCi2-6kAkqAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rrgbQCImZI)
https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=38902 (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=38902https://alltransistors.com/crsearch.php?mat=Si&struct=NPN&pc=0.5&ucb=30&uce=30&ueb=3&ic=0.3&tj=175&ft=200&cc=15&hfe=10)
https://alltransistors.com/crsearch.php?mat=Si&struct=NPN&pc=0.5&ucb=30&uce=30&ueb=3&ic=0.3&tj=175&ft=200&cc=15&hfe=10 (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=38902https://alltransistors.com/crsearch.php?mat=Si&struct=NPN&pc=0.5&ucb=30&uce=30&ueb=3&ic=0.3&tj=175&ft=200&cc=15&hfe=10)



Hey hi --tysb3


Thanx for this info


Provided there is no skullduggery or fake going on with this device --this is truly  amazing  IMHO or am I missing something ?


Has anyone found an equivalent to that transistor 2T603A ? I have tried to no avail.


Also that capacitor shown below the coil form --shows  "10H"  ???


Looking forward to trying this if true.


Paul





Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on March 12, 2019, 12:06:23 AM
capacitor 10Н - 10nF=0,01мкF

USSR transistor 2T603A is the same KT603A only "military quality"

Type Designator: KT603A:
 Material of Transistor: Si  Polarity: NPN 
 Maximum Collector Power Dissipation (Pc): 0.5 W
 Maximum Collector-Base Voltage |Vcb|: 30 V
 Maximum Collector-Emitter Voltage |Vce|: 30 V
 Maximum Emitter-Base Voltage |Veb|: 3 V
 Maximum Collector Current |Ic max|: 0.3 A
 Max. Operating Junction Temperature (Tj): 175 °C
 Transition Frequency (ft): 200 MHz
 Collector Capacitance (Cc): 15 pF
 Forward Current Transfer Ratio (hFE), MIN: 10
  Noise Figure, dB: -

Cross-Reference Search Result (Equivalent Transistors)
↓ Type Mat Struct Pc Vcb Vce Veb Ic Tj Ft Cc Hfe
2C2222A  (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=106) Si  NPN  0.5  75  40  6  0.8  175  300  8  100
2C2222AKB  (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=107) Si  NPN  0.5  75  40  6  0.8  175  300  8  100
          2N2222A  (https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=1774)     Si  NPN  0.5  75  40  6  0.8  175  300  8  100
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Void on March 12, 2019, 01:25:32 AM
Hi tysb3. Thanks for posting that.
I am pretty skeptical after seeing so many fake free energy videos, but the circuit
looks quite simple so I will try this next weekend if I get a chance, if I can figure out how to
properly wind and connect the coils on the toroid. I'm interested to see how
it might really perform. It is sort of along the lines of Akula's claimed self running LED circuits. :)


Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on March 12, 2019, 01:56:59 AM
I'm not very optimistic about this too. In video comments appeared comment that it doesn't work
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: Void on March 12, 2019, 03:23:42 AM
I'm not very optimistic about this too. In video comments appeared comment that it doesn't work

Hi tysb3. Yeah. Really there is no reason that I can see to think that it would work,
unless you have a strong radio transmitter nearby beaming a radio signal towards
the circuit. For a circuit to be self running, it has to get its extra energy from somewhere.
That circuit is just a modified multivibrator circuit, so I can't see any obvious reason why it might self run,
unless maybe the toroid he used is radioactive.   ;D

The guy who breadboarded that circuit you posted the picture for and who said he could not get the circuit to self run,
interpreted the '10H' capacitor as 10nF (capacitor marking in the picture is 103).

P.S. In the second video, he measures the diode current as a round 300 uA I believe.
The total power dissipated by the LED in his circuit is maybe around 300uW to 500uW.
I think it will not take all that strong of a radio signal to produce that small amount of power,
similar in some ways to a crystal radio. Some people suggested he place his circuit inside a microwave
oven to act as a faraday shield, but so far he didn't try it. I think his LED should go off
if he tries that. If not, then his circuit is magic. ;)

Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on March 12, 2019, 09:56:54 PM
yes, some commentators and I ask him to place his circuit inside a microwave but no reaction from him.
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on April 24, 2019, 12:03:04 AM
another video with new experiments. circuit placed inside a microwave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi1A4QFSRKw
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: AlienGrey on April 24, 2019, 07:58:16 AM
Come on lads, this is a time waster, it doesn't stick to any of the rules, it's just a basic multivibrator with a hidden battery. I mean It doesn't produce any HV spikes. just a scope shot showing a square wave. he is having a laugh!
Title: Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
Post by: tysb3 on June 25, 2019, 04:18:22 PM
Cutting edge on transistor for insert the lithium tablet battery?.https://youtu.be/PLHyKjQ5vJQ?t=279