Author Topic: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits (Read 478119 times)

gadgetmall · « **Reply #405 on:** December 07, 2009, 12:15:31 AM »

Quote from: stprue on December 06, 2009, 11:42:33 PM

Here is a good and simple design

I think 250 @26guage Primary

15 by 3 BC coils

These are approximate! Good Voltage and easy design.

Stpru. I need measurements . Volts are good but the current is more important .So when you post and did experiment with a 1 ohm resistor in place across your output and take a current measurement and volts with the windings #,toroid type and transistor and input current .this will indicate weather you have higher than the standard Jt using 2n2222a of mine 14 volts @5.5 ma is mine . we need higher !and remember the source should be an aa battery with the circuit drawing no more than 20ma . I guess this could be a bit higher if you use a D cell rechargeable . Thanks a bunch!

@ist . these aint normal caps bro . you will see .I can charge anycap up with any jt secondary but not these . try and put a 1 ohn resistor across your output and read the milliamps across that . thanks bro . If you can come up with half the shipping man i will give you a loan for the rest and you can pay me back later . You need your stuff !!
gadget

Ps ./i am checking on all the parts and will try to put together the units as kits ,everything except the 650-f cap . I have quite a few 1500farad left so this would be an option and once we nail this its possible lower ultracaps would work , maybe . Time to fix supper . see you all later ..

guruji · « **Reply #406 on:** December 08, 2009, 10:19:44 PM »

Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 06, 2009, 11:41:19 PM

Al:

I would consider Jeanna's coil for this maybe? (The same as the Jeanna's Light circuit) At almost 1,500 volts the charge cycle would not take long at all on the b-cap.

Now this is what I have learned with mine so far. At first, you think you can't feed 1,500 volts into the little 2.7 b-cap and in reality, maybe that is a bit too high, but you can send in a very large voltage signal from a JT that the b-caps "converts" for lack of a better term, into power/voltage via capacitance formulas.

So even though the 1,500 volts input has very little amperage, when that b-cap gets to 2.7 volts and cuts off the input signal, you will have a full cap. I think this would happen very quickly too.

Anyway, my two cents. There are other very good JT's out there with much lower outputs and they may be better for this application, I don't know for sure. But, Godspeed on this project Al, I feel confident that something very good will come of this.

Bill

Hi pirate you mentioned 1500v on Jeanna light where is this schematic? Can you please lead me to it?
About that Ucap Gadgetmall did you find a way to charge it fast?
Thanks

jeanna · « **Reply #407 on:** December 08, 2009, 11:15:13 PM »

Quote from: guruji on December 08, 2009, 10:19:44 PM

Hi pirate you mentioned 1500v on Jeanna light where is this schematic? Can you please lead me to it?

Thanks

Hi guruji,
It is the plainest joule thief with a secondary circuit you can find.
I will post a drawing with interchangeable outputs.

The important parts are the
TIP3055 or TIP31C make the leap to much higher voltages with this big toroid.
So you have the toroid?
I am waiting for my trial samples so I can hopefully offer and get a range... more later.

Here is the general schematic.
After testing the jt circuit with the basic light in place, remove the led and use only the secondary.
You will need over 450 volts to light a fluoro tube. My 1400v was from a combination of tuning and parts.

I know you have made some of these, but I forget... where are you in the process?
Have you made a jtc with secondary that lights 6 to 12 leds in series?
That is always a good step anyway. It will never hurt to have a 6 to 12 led circuit around andit is good practice with the elements.

jeanna

resonanceman · « **Reply #408 on:** December 09, 2009, 06:54:12 AM »

I have been thinking about the control unit for the cap charger

I wonder if a circuit that will work at low voltages is really needed.

We need something to make sure the caps don't overload .......and something to automate switching the caps

It seems to me that when the cap we are charging is low .......there is no need to do anything except charge it up . any power used in a controll circuit is wasted .

Once the cap we are charging is nearly full .....we have around 2.5 V is it hard to find componets that will work on 2.5V ?

It seems to me that we need something that works like the safty valve on a water heater .
The safety valve on awater heater is just a valve held closed by a spring .
If the water presure get to high ....the sping can no longer hold the presure so the valve opens .

In our case I think we only need to connect the gate and source of a mosfet
If as the voltage gets high enough the MOSFET will start conducting .
I see no reason that the power that " leaks" out through the mosfet can't be used to power some kind of switcing system

One way that this power could be used is to use it to charge a small supercap attached to the gate of another mosfet
It wouldn't tale a very large super cap to maintain voltage on the gate of a mosfet long enough to charge the Ultracap

Then there is the possibility of putting 2 Ultracaps in series and having 5 V to work with

gary

Groundloop · « **Reply #409 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:47:18 AM »

@resonanceman,

Yes I agree.

If you look at page 39 in this thread then you will see that is what I have designed.

Groundloop.

guruji · « **Reply #410 on:** December 09, 2009, 01:46:42 PM »

Hi Jeanna thanks for response. Yes I did a bunch of JT now ;small and 1" too but it would be a good idea to try on a bigger one with those transistors as you said.
Thanks

resonanceman · « **Reply #411 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:40:18 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on December 09, 2009, 07:47:18 AM

@resonanceman,

Yes I agree.

If you look at page 39 in this thread then you will see that is what I have designed.

Groundloop.

I read page 39 and I just read it again

I see 2 schematics but no general explanation of what the circuit does .

From what you said on page 39 it does not look to me like we are talking about doing the same thing .

Quote

If we use the +5 volt generated from the IC then it is just
enough to control a hexfet gate.

If the chip will run on 1.4 V and you will have 2.5 V in the cap before you need to switch caps why do you need to control a transistor with the 5V that the chip can make ?

Why not let the switching circuit sleep until there is a preset voltage in the cap .......then it can wake up switch caps and go back to sleep .
A small super cap could be charged on the each cycle to power the gates of the switching transistors

gary

Groundloop · « **Reply #412 on:** December 09, 2009, 09:09:51 PM »

@resonanceman,

The circuit will do the following:

The MAX856 is designed to run from a single 1,5 volt battery. This IC has a built
in detector that can detect a preset voltage level in the battery. The preset point
is set by using external resistors. This IC can also make a +5 (or 3,3) volt from
the input voltage. The low voltage detector output is a pull down transistor.
(Open collector output). This transistor can not handle great currents.

So what we do is running a pic mcu that can be triggered from this output. The pic
mcu also have an built in analog to digital converter. We use this converter to monitor
the voltage over the bcap. We need a voltage reference that is higher than the 1,5 volt
from the input battery since the bcap can reach a higher voltage than the input AA cell.

We use two powerful transistors to switch both the voltage feed back to the AA battery and
to the external load. The current through those transistors will be restricted by using pulse
width modulation. These hexfet transistor need +5 volt at the gate to trigger on.

The pic mcu will run slow on an internal oscillator. The mcu will also sleep between
operations and will wake up on interrupts from the low voltage detector and from the
a/d converter. This will ensure that the mcu uses minimum current from the AA battery.

Groundloop.

resonanceman · « **Reply #413 on:** December 09, 2009, 10:45:53 PM »

Quote from: Groundloop on December 09, 2009, 09:09:51 PM

@resonanceman,

The circuit will do the following:

The MAX856 is designed to run from a single 1,5 volt battery. This IC has a built
in detector that can detect a preset voltage level in the battery. The preset point
is set by using external resistors. This IC can also make a +5 (or 3,3) volt from
the input voltage. The low voltage detector output is a pull down transistor.
(Open collector output). This transistor can not handle great currents.

So what we do is running a pic mcu that can be triggered from this output. The pic
mcu also have an built in analog to digital converter. We use this converter to monitor
the voltage over the bcap. We need a voltage reference that is higher than the 1,5 volt
from the input battery since the bcap can reach a higher voltage than the input AA cell.

We use two powerful transistors to switch both the voltage feed back to the AA battery and
to the external load. The current through those transistors will be restricted by using pulse
width modulation. These hexfet transistor need +5 volt at the gate to trigger on.

The pic mcu will run slow on an internal oscillator. The mcu will also sleep between
operations and will wake up on interrupts from the low voltage detector and from the
a/d converter. This will ensure that the mcu uses minimum current from the AA battery.

Groundloop.

Groundloop

Thank you for the excellent explanation of what your circuit does .

gary

resonanceman · « **Reply #414 on:** December 10, 2009, 12:26:00 AM »

Has anyone bought some 0W48740TC toroids ?

I have heard that a few people have got samples already .

I was going to order some today .

It turns out that Magnetics has a minumum of $25000.
They do have distributers that sell small quantities .
They have a place on their website that searches for a part in their distributor inventories .
The largest W core I have found so far is 85.7 mm OD

The free samples are great .......but they are kind of a dead end if you want to make more than 1 or 2

gary

Pirate88179 · « **Reply #415 on:** December 10, 2009, 12:41:58 AM »

Gary:

I got my 4 the other day of the part number you posted. Their distributors have a much lower minimum so these appear to be available. I am using two of them stacked together on my Jeanna Light replication. Evidently, we can get more "samples" after a week's time or so. I really think that if I asked for 10 of them, they would have sent 10. I just didn't want to be greedy since they were free and all and I actually would have preferred to pay for them but, as you said with their minimums, it is not easy.

Bill

resonanceman · « **Reply #416 on:** December 10, 2009, 02:42:29 AM »

Quote from: Pirate88179 on December 10, 2009, 12:41:58 AM

Gary:

I got my 4 the other day of the part number you posted. Their distributors have a much lower minimum so these appear to be available. I am using two of them stacked together on my Jeanna Light replication. Evidently, we can get more "samples" after a week's time or so. I really think that if I asked for 10 of them, they would have sent 10. I just didn't want to be greedy since they were free and all and I actually would have preferred to pay for them but, as you said with their minimums, it is not easy.

Bill

I guess you got your sample cores from Magnetics ...... not from one of their distributors .
I spent a good share of the day reaserching what is available .

I put in a price request for the largest one I found in listed as being stocked by a distributor .
3.3 in ......... we see what happens

gary

jeanna · « **Reply #417 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:09:53 AM »

Quote from: resonanceman on December 10, 2009, 12:26:00 AM

Has anyone bought some 0W48740TC toroids ?
....

It turns out that Magnetics has a minumum of $25000.
They do have distributers that sell small quantities .
.....
The largest W core I have found so far is 85.7 mm OD

The free samples are great .......but they are kind of a dead end if you want to make more than 1 or 2

Gary,
Yes, you are right about the dead end part.

That 0W48740TC is the one I used.
I will be getting a J type to be sure the one I used was a W
I am also getting 2 that are 2.5 inches of the same 2 types to see if a smaller radius will be good enough for a cfl.

There is a distributor who sells with a $30 order size in Califurnia.
25,000 wow that is really high.
So, if one of us can buy from the distributor and sell to the rest of the joule thievers, it will be a good market.
I got a per piece price from the distributor of 2 cents to 2 dollars which means this would get a retail price of $4 or $5 plus shipping for the biggo.
I paid $3.50 plus shipping for mine from allelectronics, and 4 or 5 plus shipping is reasonable if someone wants to do this.

jeanna

WattBuilder · « **Reply #418 on:** December 10, 2009, 06:27:17 AM »

Hi,

Hereâ€™s a picture of my toroids that just came in today.
I may decide to use them for my loop back circuit or just make a joule thief attached to the turbine. I will still need to think it through before I get to that point.

Howard

gadgetmall · « **Reply #419 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:49:21 PM »

Quote from: WattBuilder on December 10, 2009, 06:27:17 AM

Hi,

Hereâ€™s a picture of my toroids that just came in today.
I may decide to use them for my loop back circuit or just make a joule thief attached to the turbine. I will still need to think it through before I get to that point.

Howard

Are These From Mag-inc samples also . I have got 4 jeanna core and they are super . I sent one to a good friend here on the internet for a Christmas present . As a matter of fact i sent quite a few packages out , more than i have bought for my own family so far ! Just call me Santa Clause and I do love giving and it helps me get into the Spirit of Christmas . Speaking of which is only a wisp away so i got to get busy . i havent even put up the tree yet . The Yard Is UNDER WATER as with the Earthbatteries . 0 output . shorted . My drive way is now a pond /mud hole . you can imagine what my new White truck looks like

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Author Topic: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits (Read 478119 times)

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