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Author Topic: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits  (Read 387254 times)

Offline jeanna

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #585 on: February 11, 2010, 05:47:43 AM »
the toroid i have will charge a cap alittle passed 1200v dc.. but once this circuit is running i can't get my scope near it.. it will start giving weird readings without hooking the probe up thats 2-4 feet away.. this is the same scope i have if anyone know how i can shield it
http://www.tequipment.net/Velleman_hps10se.html
robbie
No, you answered that question.
Please keep the scope safe.

I am still puzzled about 2 things.
why you are running 4 neons and not an additional filament or even halogen bulb? Is this still not able to run a filament bulb here?

and

If you blow the 4w filament bulb can you not solve this problem with a 7w bulb?
Or does it refuse to light when it is higher than 4w?

jeanna

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #585 on: February 11, 2010, 05:47:43 AM »

Offline kooler

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #586 on: February 12, 2010, 01:15:41 AM »
jeanna
the neons are for triggering the triac
so if you had one neon on it, it would open at 90-100 volt.. once the cap charge up to the required volts you want.. so if you had two neons in a series .. the triac would dump the capacitor at 150-180 volts
and 5 neons in series will dump around 280-295 volts..

for some reason the neons trigger the triac better than a diac or sidac..
just keep in mind that once a scr or triac open .. they won't close till the capacitor is empty..
so even if you can charge a high micro farad cap really fast you still won't be able to dump it at a high frequency..

this has been a trial and error circuit for me.. mainly because i don't know the math.. haha

out
robbie

Offline jeanna

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #587 on: February 12, 2010, 01:40:40 AM »
jeanna
the neons are for triggering the triac
so if you had one neon on it, it would open at 90-100 volt.. once the cap charge up to the required volts you want.. so if you had two neons in a series .. the triac would dump the capacitor at 150-180 volts
and 5 neons in series will dump around 280-295 volts..

for some reason the neons trigger the triac better than a diac or sidac..
just keep in mind that once a scr or triac open .. they won't close till the capacitor is empty..
so even if you can charge a high micro farad cap really fast you still won't be able to dump it at a high frequency..

this has been a trial and error circuit for me.. mainly because i don't know the math.. haha

out
robbie
Good.
I guess I was thinking a smaller value cap would work better, because it could fill and dump faster.
This is not a dc circuit and the charge can go back and forth across a point in the wire, and could have the same effect on the filament as all one way.
I say faster since it doesn't need  to be a lot of charge if it is repeated fast.
That is what I think you are doing/showing.

So, what happens with  4700pF, or 680pf or even a 100pF.
they may be too small, but they may have the speed.
They may be found in the  cfl circuits ??

I am playing around with the trial and error too.
The information to calculate this is around, but it is never put together for this purpose.

So, since your little 4w bulb lights up, that means that you have .4amps passing the wires, which means the .043uF (=43,000pF or '433' ) cap is passing the 0.4A charge along fast enough to light the lamp steadily.
Can you put a different cap in there a smaller one and have it fill and dump twice as fast and end up with enough for an 8w bulb... then what for a 10w, 25w etc.

It is possible that this is as high as you can go, but I see evidence of more voltage in your circuit and that is another reason why I think you can go smaller.

If someone wants to check my math esp the decimals, and help further with the figuring I/we will be very grateful. If not, i will continue anyway.

I am working with a plain secondary and I may need to add your triac to be up to speed here.
Right now my scope batteries are charging.

Kooler, I am so glad you are doing this!
thank you,

jeanna

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #587 on: February 12, 2010, 01:40:40 AM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #588 on: February 12, 2010, 02:17:56 AM »
Here Kooler,
http://www.coilgun.info/mark2/rlcsim.htm
I made the sliders go to sort of match your cap and 43mA, then I made a smaller inductor and the mA went up and smaller again and the mA went still higher. The freq is in the upper right hand corner. That tells a tale too.

See what you think.

jeanna
the last one is 400mA just from changing the inductor value!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 02:45:57 AM by jeanna »

Offline sirmikey1

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #589 on: February 12, 2010, 05:09:29 AM »
Kooler,
   Don't know if you've noticed, but you are using KV and Gadget is not, which is a good way to test weather or not KV expands/enlarges the energy field, adds energy (Don Smith's OU Claim).   
  Many thanks for all of your work here.  Anxious....
Cheers,
Mikey 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #589 on: February 12, 2010, 05:09:29 AM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #590 on: February 12, 2010, 07:19:47 PM »
Kooler,
   Don't know if you've noticed, but you are using KV and Gadget is not, which is a good way to test weather or not KV expands/enlarges the energy field, adds energy (Don Smith's OU Claim).   
  Many thanks for all of your work here.  Anxious....
Cheers,
Mikey

I think high voltage as it increases in voltage towards
static electricity levels of about 10KV, does indeed invoke
another kind of OU process based in what is called
"free electrons" in the environment. I kind of like the
lowest voltage JT experiments because they don't
invoke HV and then I will know that the JT OU is based
differently then in the free electron type of overunity.
Later these two can be combined.

The logic of this is that non-atomic bound electrons in free
space repel each other rather drastically and shoot away,
because they are very lightweight. But triboelectric charges,
essentially large collections of electrons, attract even more
from the environment making an even bigger electron cloud.
My feeling is that HV free electron collection is essentially
an inherent OU process. The more a circuit moves towards
HV the more it can invoke "free electron" processes. This is
why in ignition coil experiments (30KV) they show very large
numbers of converted cfl's can be strung together along a
wire and yet they still light up. Each wire segment and cfl
attracts new free electrons along the way making the energy
essentially somewhat self restoring.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline jeanna

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #591 on: February 12, 2010, 07:49:01 PM »
What about particles turning to waves?
It is my opinion that this is what happens at any (back)spike.
Sometimes you can see the spike go off the screen at the top and return from off the screen on the bottom.
I cannot argue physics and so I avoid the conversation, but when the math goes to infinity as it does on the pickup,  even in the low voltage jt circuits, this needs to be considered.

This is only my opinion, no more facts or any kind of proof.

jeanna

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #591 on: February 12, 2010, 07:49:01 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #592 on: February 12, 2010, 10:24:22 PM »
What about particles turning to waves?
It is my opinion that this is what happens at any (back)spike.
Sometimes you can see the spike go off the screen at the top and return from off the screen on the bottom.
I cannot argue physics and so I avoid the conversation, but when the math goes to infinity as it does on the pickup,  even in the low voltage jt circuits, this needs to be considered.

This is only my opinion, no more facts or any kind of proof.

jeanna

In my opinion it looks to me as if the toroid as kind of a optimal transformer
is circulating currents that when the pulse load is placed on the output coil
causes more instantaneously circulating currents rather then less. It looks
as if current under load in a toroid causes propagation of energy rather than
it's depletion as it should under conservative energetic understanding. How
else can you light a four watt lamp with 1/3 watt input power continuously?
You know I'm not talking about the 1.5Volt battery. A four watt incandescent
lamp is still only 5% optically efficient so it will not be part of an energy
recovery system, but led bulbs and cfl's are unusually efficient. And *your*
circuits drive those loads seemingly as well.

So keep up the good work...but I can't explain what you guys seem to
be showing, conventionally. These lighting of lamps with lower amounts
of energy have direct applicability in electric automobiles, by the way.
Even if some component is being stressed and eventually needs to
be replaced, it seems worthwhile.

Does the battery need to see the pulses to excite some exotic
chemistry? That's easy enough to try by using a low value resister
and electrolytic capacitor.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline kooler

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #593 on: February 13, 2010, 05:45:22 AM »
hello
i will probably work on this circuit some more this weekend.. try some different caps and work on the ccfl circuit to see if i can improve it..
and to see what else this circuit board will do on 6 volts..
it took me a couple of trys to get it to 68ma's.. hoping i can get it lower
ah well.. i keep you guys posted

robbie

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #593 on: February 13, 2010, 05:45:22 AM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #594 on: February 13, 2010, 06:18:03 AM »
Kooler,
Would you do me a biggie, please?
I wonder what your secondary puts out through all those things when you start with a 1.2 or 1.5v battery.
This information will really help me, and I am sure your scope can do it??
I hope?

thanks,

jeanna

edit,
I was thinking about mark's new coil and it made me wonder if you are using thick secondary wire?

Offline kooler

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #595 on: February 13, 2010, 07:18:05 AM »
jeanna
are you talking about the ccfl driver circuit.. running with a 1.5 battery

or my 3.3'' toroid  ( jeanna style ) jt
it has 26 awg secondary and a 18 awg litz primary

let me know i will stick the oscope on it and take a pic or video tomorrow..

oh.. if you are wanting me to scope the output of the discharging cap.. my scope won't read it

let me know

robbie

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #595 on: February 13, 2010, 07:18:05 AM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #596 on: February 13, 2010, 07:53:24 AM »
....
oh.. if you are wanting me to scope the output of the discharging cap.. my scope won't read it

robbie
I was thinking that since you cannot get near it with 6 volts, maybe you can with 1.2v.
I certainly don't want you to damage your scope.

What about putting the scope on each leg of the filament wire? Is that too hot too?

Thank you,

jeanna

Offline sirmikey1

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #597 on: February 13, 2010, 08:49:47 AM »

Posted this in the Jule Thief thread, really belongs here:

Identified the neon cap charger trick; and it shows several workarounds. Reminds me of capacitor timer circuits, use the discharge timeframe on one to charge another. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relaxation_oscillator

Mikey
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 12:06:39 PM by sirmikey1 »

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #598 on: February 13, 2010, 08:44:02 PM »
I was thinking that since you cannot get near it with 6 volts, maybe you can with 1.2v.
I certainly don't want you to damage your scope.

What about putting the scope on each leg of the filament wire? Is that too hot too?

Thank you,

jeanna

note:
(transformer turns ratio) 270/2 = 135to1 x (unipolar) 6Vdc = 810Vac pp (peak-to-peak).

Offline kooler

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Re: Second Stage Joule Thief Circuits
« Reply #599 on: February 15, 2010, 06:54:08 AM »
@all
 a 60 watt is a bit more of a pain to light due to it's low resistance to light up .. once i get the ma's draw down and it is safer, i will post a good schematic.. but right now there r some safety issues.. or i just been having a bad couple of days..
my whole goal is to make something that you could run on a solar panel for days even if the sun hasn't been out..
it always good to dream.. right
i would love to get it back down to a AA battery.. but with this it is too much ma's

robbie

 

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