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Author Topic: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor  (Read 250024 times)

Offline energyman8

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2006, 09:53:11 AM »
p.s... I believe in free energy too..... and zero point energy..... but I think they are the same thing.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2006, 09:53:11 AM »

Offline mark australia

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2006, 12:20:12 PM »
Dear Energy man, I studied the GMCC project closely and looked at their figures. At that stage they never achieved overunity, they just predicted they would. Unfortunately they informed the market and their shares went through the roof based on something they had not achieved. I predicted they would get into a little trouble with the authorities and distanced myself from the project.

Jack appears to have a great working, well crafted motor but it still has to be independently tested. I am sure when it does it will come through with flying colors.

I would be quite happy to look at there figures again regards the Remat device. They made a lot of promises and I and I think it was Butch were to go and test there device and measure overunity. This never happened and the invite was withdrawn

To date no one has produced an independently verified OU device..which is sad.
I know of quite a few exciting projects at the moment and hope they come through.
However we can all hope. keep up the good work Jack.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2006, 04:41:26 PM »
Dear Energy man, I studied the GMCC project closely and looked at their figures. At that stage they never achieved overunity, they just predicted they would. Unfortunately they informed the market and their shares went through the roof based on something they had not achieved. I predicted they would get into a little trouble with the authorities and distanced myself from the project.

Jack appears to have a great working, well crafted motor but it still has to be independently tested. I am sure when it does it will come through with flying colors.

I would be quite happy to look at there figures again regards the Remat device. They made a lot of promises and I and I think it was Butch were to go and test there device and measure overunity. This never happened and the invite was withdrawn

To date no one has produced an independently verified OU device..which is sad.
I know of quite a few exciting projects at the moment and hope they come through.
However we can all hope. keep up the good work Jack.

Mark Australia,

Do you know of a good place or who could do an independent verification of a device?

Liberty

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2006, 04:41:26 PM »
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Offline mark australia

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #93 on: July 24, 2006, 01:23:58 AM »
Hi Liberty,
I am in the process of writing you a lengthy email about the history of many devices. I should send it some time today.
The question you ask has many answers.
With a device like this, all that is needed to be tested in the first instance is power in and power out as Jack is done.
The next step in Jacks case would be to get a certified engineer or lab to validate his results. It would not be hard in this instance. Finally the longevity test needs to be done..allowing the device to run under a small load for as long as it can in a controlled environment with everything being monitored.
With other devices, the next step in testing is(In the case of magnetic devices) how long the magnets last under load.
The next question is who should test it. That is dependent where someone lives and at what stage of development they are at. For instance given your electronics background you would be a good person for instance to test such a device. However the next step after is going to a lab that has some form of industry accreditation.

Then comes the next crunch...designing the test. (I love doing that bit)

I am rambling here but I think it is hard to give you a diffinitive answer as each device is different.
A friend of mine has asked me to form a group to do such testing and validations. He has devised a test that can be applied to many OU claims. He has been asked to perform his test on a replication of a well known OU device and with any luck I will be there as an observer and filming it. When this happens I will let you know. his aim is to have a universally accepted test for all devices that is accepted by the scientific community.

Where most devices fall down on credability (I could list at least 50 ) Is they have never allowed independent testing .
I know you follow Steven Marlks or Mark Stevens work , but as far as I am aware, he has never allowed fully independent testing. He has for instance done lots of demonstartions, videos etc,  but never allowed anyone to test it even in his presence. (by that I mean conducting a test with controlled parameters)
The list goes on, Torbay Motor, Ccyclone, Pendrev, Lutec and many other devices that are on the fringe such as Joe cells. They have never had indepent validation in a controlled enviroment.

I take my hat of to Paul Sprain who is very methodical about his testing and fine example to follow.

The two people I would contact in the first instance if I was in the US would be Stirling Allen or in Europe the moderator of this site who would know who to contact. In Australia I am fortunate to have access to several facilities at universities. The sad thing is I havnt had to call upon their services yet.
I have an open offer to go anywhere in the world at my own expense and take part in a validation and document it.
Sorry I cant be more definative, but if I had a device that I was allowed to test then I could be more specific.
Mark


Offline Light

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2006, 02:12:05 AM »
If I would have such kind of device, I would not give it to anyone to test it neither. If you want to test it - buy it and do whatever you want to do...
I would make it for myself needs and maybe for some friends. It's only way do not allow it to hide in some instances and "big brothers".
Besides, the only right testing tools is Time...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #94 on: July 24, 2006, 02:12:05 AM »
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Offline JRHall

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #95 on: July 24, 2006, 04:35:49 AM »
I think a thread for a standard test plan would be good. 

So far we've talked about functionally validating a technology at nominal conditions.  i.e. 25C ambient temp.  That will validate the technology is viable but will not show how it works under real world conditions.  Most of this technology will be run under extended environmental conditions.  So once intial testing is completed at nominal then testing over temperature, humidy, vibration and thermal shock will help determine if there are anamolies.  Highly Excelerated Life Testing or Halt does a very good job of determining operating limites and weak points in a design. 

I've seen a lot of designs that work great at 25C but fail to function at 0C or 45C.

Offline mark australia

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2006, 05:21:20 AM »
Liberty, I am having trouble sending you emails..they all bounced to day.
Please email me with an alternative address at mark.dansie@advatel.biz
thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #96 on: July 24, 2006, 05:21:20 AM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #97 on: July 24, 2006, 06:32:28 AM »
Liberty, I am having trouble sending you emails..they all bounced to day.
Please email me with an alternative address at mark.dansie@advatel.biz
thanks

Sorry about that, the ISP that I use had a server crash of some sort.  I think that they nearly have it put back together now.  I noticed the web site is back up.  It may work again if you want to try it again.  I will email you with an alternate email just in case.

Liberty

Offline z_p_e

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor - Wire gauge
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2006, 02:43:49 PM »
Hi Jack.

Would you be able to disclose the gauge of wire you are using with your N48 magnets? Also, if you go up or down in magnet size, does the wire gauge remain the same?

I would guess that as the magnet size goes up, so does the wire guage (bigger wire). This would allow you to increase the number of turns and/or the wire length, without increasing the final coil resistance.

z_p_e

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor - Wire gauge
« Reply #98 on: July 24, 2006, 02:43:49 PM »
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jake

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #99 on: July 24, 2006, 04:34:37 PM »
The "reactance" of the coil could be much more of an issue than the resistance, especially when you are applying a pulsed waveform to the coil.  "Reactance" could be described as the AC resistance of the coil, and it changes (increases) with the applied frequency.

If you want to drive the coil at a high frequency, I would determine the ampere-turns required by building the coil with a reasonable wire size (Jack noted that he is driving at .08a, 100v, I think - any reasonable sized wire will handle that).  Test the coil and adjust the current until you get the desired result under static conditions.  Measure the current.  Multiply the measured current in amps times the number of turns on the coil.  This gives you the ampere-turns necessary to get the proper magnetic flux. (Any number of turns with the correct current can be used to create that amount of flux)  At this point you know the magnetic requirement of the coil.  Now you must decide what frequency you are going to drive the coil at, and bulid a coil optimized for that frequency, which involves a number of calculations to tune the coil to the desired frequency.

The problem with not tuning the coil to the operating frequency is you can't get the current moving in the coil rapidly enough.  Performance will suffer because by the time you produce the flux the rotor may have passed you by.

The problem with driving coils with square waves (pulses) is that the harmonic frequencies in square waves are very high, even if the fundamental frequency is low.  Any coil has a relatively high resistance to square waves, which tends to knock the corners off the waveform.  You may have to severly overdrive the coil to get the desired current throuth it when pulsing it, especially with short duration pulses.

My gut feeling is that you might be better with larger wire, less turns, more current, less voltage.  Your copper losses might be a little higher, but you will be able to drive at higher frequencies because of the decreased reactance of the coil.  Jack is using 8w coils at 100v.  You can get the same result with 50v, 25v, etc, by increasing the current and decreasing the turns.  I think a pulse (square) waveform will work better with fewer turns on the coil.

jake

  • Guest
Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #100 on: July 24, 2006, 05:23:37 PM »
http://www.flynnresearch.net/technology/PPMT%20technology%20white%20paper.pdf

I think the motor design discussed in this paper is the best I have seen so far.

The aspect of the Hilden-Brand "valve" that I don't like is the gap required to make it function.  I'm not sure how big the gap is, but any gap at that location is a bad thing.  If that gap is any larger than a normal stator-rotor gap it is a bad thing.

Flynn's motor does not require a gap (other than normal rotor-stator gap) to function, which I think is a big advantage.  Also, when the Hiledn-Brand valve is "off", all of the PM Flux is doing nothing - it is "short circuited" by design.  In the Flynn design the magnets are being utilized even when the coils are off.  His design makes use of the PM flux at all times, even with the coils off.  The design moves the PM flux from one useful place to another, utilizing all of the PM flux all of the time.  The Hilden-Brand design wastes all of the PM flux part of the time by shunting it through a non-working path when the coil is off.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #100 on: July 24, 2006, 05:23:37 PM »
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Offline Nali2001

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #101 on: July 24, 2006, 10:29:28 PM »
Is it just me or did anyone else notice that the Jack's picture describing the Hilden-Brand valve is now removed..?
I thought it was on page 14 or so some day's ago.  ???

jake

  • Guest
Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #102 on: July 25, 2006, 12:10:18 AM »
Quote
The stator-rotor gap is around 002 on my motors.

If you can get it that close without having the magnets attracting, it sounds like that isn't an issue.

jake

  • Guest
Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #103 on: July 25, 2006, 12:14:56 AM »
Quote
Is it just me or did anyone else notice that the Jack's picture describing the Hilden-Brand valve is now removed..?

You can see it here:

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Director:Hilden-Brand_Electromagnet_Motor


Offline MeggerMan

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Re: Hilden-Brand Magnet Motor
« Reply #104 on: July 26, 2006, 10:08:18 AM »
Has nobody figured how this idea can be turned into a motor yet?

This is just one idea I have:
For the flux to switch you need a path for it to flow through.
The smaller the cross section, the higher the flux.
So what you have is instead of a rectangular core across the two main feed/return limbs, you cut a semi circle out of it (the rectangle slab) so the flux at the mid point will be at its maximum for that material.
So this way the circuit is completed, the rotor arm then is attracted to the centre of the semi circle, as it lines up to the centre of the core you need to remove the power from your coil.
The rotor itself will reduce the flux attraction as it approaches the centre point as its own core steel becomes part of the path.

The ideal way would be to get the flux to go through the whole rotor to another valve to complete a circuit.
Anybody done a Femm 4 magnetic simulation on this yet?
I can post the sample I have done if that is possible on this BB.

Ohh, I may be able to get a load of laminated silicon steel offcuts(scrap used in large transformer production).


Regards

Rob

 

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