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Author Topic: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie  (Read 12278 times)

Offline poynt99

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Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« on: November 19, 2009, 06:15:18 PM »
An unhindered detailed analysis and exposé of the Ainslie circuit and the associated claims.

Coming Soon!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 06:45:34 PM by poynt99 »

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Offline poynt99

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 10:24:32 PM »
A little something Grumpy passed along...

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/test-pm.htm

General interest pertaining to many different areas of FE research, including the Ainslie device.

In particular from the above article, this sums things up quite succinctly:

Quote
The clear implication is that perpetual motion promoters simply don't know how to do energy, power, and efficiency measurements properly (or don't want to).

.99

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 01:26:45 AM »
Hey Poynt!

Thank you on behalf of everyone for creating this thread.

That link looks like a fun read, thanks Grumpy!

It will be interesting to see the final Ainsley paper and analyze it.  Perhaps even reverse-engineer it.  lol

Even right now there is some low-hanging fruit, but what the hey...

It's gonna be a really big sheww, a really big sheww.

Announcer:  And now, ladies and gentlemen... Regular watchers would know know the Fettucini Brothers, we are pleased to say we have had them on five times before, and each time they bring us new thrills and excitement.  <APPLAUSE>

Announcer:  So.... For our first act of the evening, all the way from Pastabasta New Jersey, we bring you... THE FETTUCINI BROTHERS!!!!  <**APPLAUSE**>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtsxyxEd85U

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 01:26:45 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Gobaga

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 01:41:28 AM »
Thanks for this thread, Poynt.  Can't wait to see what comes out of it.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 02:06:58 AM »
Announcer:  And now.... for our second act this evening....  We are pleased to bring up on this stage a fine young gentlemen and his lovely assistant.  We are looking into the future with this act... Imagine life in the 1980s....  And it's something for our wonderful scientists to ponder and for our regular audience members to marvel at....

Announcer:  Please give a big big hand to Marvyn Roy... "Mr. Electric" himself!!!  <APPLAUSE>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjv-QlWwV9Y

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 02:06:58 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline poynt99

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 03:11:01 AM »
Hey Gobaga, it's time we had a board like this here at OU. Stefan agreed it was a good idea, so here we are.

Obviously the Ainslie device will be the first, as it is fresh in the minds of many. It's unfortunate actually, that the AT (Ainslie Team) is poised to prematurely submit this paper. Had they the sense to pause, listen, and try the many proposed solutions/improvements I (and others) have suggested along the way in the other thread, they could save themselves much embarrassment. There is little to no chance that any paper based on the erroneous data they have acquired thus far will be accepted by anyone that has any merit in the industry. Not only the poor data itself, but the poor measurement techniques as well will be quite evident to any respectable engineer that may review the paper. They've been more than duly advised and made aware of the deficiencies in both the data and the method being used to acquire it. All the diagrams and explanations required are there for the taking, so there is no excuse really for what is sure to transpire, but alas, one can only lead a horse to water as the saying goes.

In the mean time, and as time permits, I will be putting together a more formal exposition of the problem analysis and solutions for this particular apparatus.

Let's try to keep things on topic, but have fun while we're at it. This will be an extremely useful topic for those that could use a good dose of guidance (such as the AT) in order that they be properly prepared before making any claims of OU and such.

.99

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 04:13:13 AM »
Hi Poynt,

To get serious, I read Grumpy's link and it was a good read and I learned a few things.  They mention using a light bulb and its perceived brightness as a way of comparing power levels.  It is worth adding that a lot of people work with LEDs, and LEDs are not the same as a burning light bulb filament.  Human visual perception comes into play with LEDs and perhaps also for very tiny light bulb filaments.  LEDs can switch on and off much more quickly than a light bulb filament.   An LED that flashes briefly and brightly above the human "flicker" threshold frequency can appear to be brighter than a LED that is dissipating pure DC power.

Most eight-segment LED numeric displays are actually scanned so they briefly flash at about 60 Hertz.   This is done to save power while having the same apparent brightness.

On the "fun" side if you were a little proto-nerd like me, starting as a child you were using your eyes as a built-in scope.  You took a calculator with a red LED display into the darkness and then looked at the display as you swept your eyes from right to left at a constant speed.  By doing that you create a "scope trace" across your retina and can easily see that the calculator display is flashing.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 04:13:13 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline poynt99

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 04:51:12 AM »
Good observations about the LED's MileHigh.

I'm not even too crazy about the light bulb method myself, as it can be quite subjective, but it can do in a pinch and to get a ballpark comparison.

I like the link Gobaga posted at the other thread. It's to Hal Puthoff's site, ETI. If the AT is serious about their claims and don't trust a third party group such as ourselves to test it, they should submit the device to Hal's group for scrutiny.

Here it is again: http://www.earthtech.org/about/index.html

.99

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 04:05:30 PM »
A little something Grumpy passed along...

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/test-pm.htm

General interest pertaining to many different areas of FE research, including the Ainslie device.

In particular from the above article, this sums things up quite succinctly:

Quote
The clear implication is that perpetual motion promoters simply don't know how to do energy, power, and efficiency measurements properly (or don't want to).

.99

I would agree that a lot of people in the FE community don't do proper measurements, but there are people in the "free energy" community that know how to take proper measurements who are claiming > COP 1.

For example the companies that are working on cold fusion. Also I'm working with scientists on highly shielded diodes & piezos that are producing DC power. A EE, by  profession, is working on the piezo research where he purchased a piezo, shielded it, and saw the the piezo produce DC power. I have placed a piezo element (Radio shack part # 273-073) inside a thick Hammond Al diecast chassis that was covered in a 2 ft diameter layer of thermal insulation that produced DC current for over a month. It was still producing DC current, but I had to stop the experiment to do other experiments.

Paul

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 04:05:30 PM »
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Offline 0c

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 04:34:47 PM »
Just a little reading material to help get this thread started:

http://www.earthtech.org/experiments/Hathaway_Nightmare_List.pdf

Offline poynt99

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 04:54:34 PM »
Paul,

There are some folks out there that do have a handle on performing power measurements, but the vast majority do not, particularly on these forums.

I thought the measurements on the Ainslie circuit would be relatively straight forward, but I was wrong. I did the testing myself, and I not only have a pretty solid background in electronics, but also with test equipment. Now, I've never claimed to be an expert, but I do have the background and I do try to apply myself, which is what I have done over the years and in particular most recently with the Ainslie circuit and its measurements. I still have plenty to learn myself, and learning I am.

I've gained a lot of knowledge and experience most recently while working on and researching these type of difficult measurements, where not only high frequencies and transients are involved, but the need to measure both current and voltage accurately is required. To the unaware, a few inches of wire is just that, but in reality things are quite different. Probe positioning is everything. Grounding, a nuisance that must be strictly dealt with, etc. It is all indeed a real challenge, but not an insurmountable one.

Single-ended probes may be usable in testing this apparatus, but only if testing is "built-in" or "designed-in" from the very start of the project. Clearly this was not done on Fuzzy's setup, and was only partially implemented in my own, but not to a sufficient level. Accurate measurements are paramount, and as such, the DUT should be designed around this requirement. This is not a trivial endeavor as some have assumed, and continue to do so.

The clear solution is to build up the DUT with testing clearly in mind and use the appropriate probe types. And that is part of what this thread is all about.

.99

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 04:54:34 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 05:51:15 PM »
poynt99,

I could agree with that, except I would add that testing the Ainslie circuit is extremely easy by measuring temperatures; e.g., Calorimeter. A calorimeter does not have be expensive. A quick method is with thermistors and a simple circuit. That way you deal with DC, not AC. You did this for the load, and you were so close to completion, so why not spend the short amount of time completing this for the mosfet? If one gets interesting results, then they can spend the $ to buy an prefabricated Calorimeter.

It should be said that your temperature measurements showed that the Ainslie circuit did *not* produce more power output on the load than from the battery. So the only last hope for the Ainslie circuit is also testing mosfet heat production, but I seriously doubt it would be enough for > COP 1.


Paul

Offline poynt99

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 07:18:16 PM »
I'm not discounting the calorimetry method at all for these measurements, however it would be rather difficult to obtain one for the power being supplied to the circuit by the source.

The only method available to obtain a POS (power output from supply) measurement, is through the use of either a shunt resistor (filtered or unfiltered) or a current probe, and the source voltage (filtered or unfiltered).

This is the crux of the argument regarding the AT's results. Their POS measurements/calculations are not based on good data. Proof of the Ainslie claim only requires the POS and PIL (power into load resistor) measurements. The PIL measurement was obtained using a DC control test and came to about 4.5W. That leaves the POS measurement, and thus far the AT has not produced an accurate one.

The means to do so is not only well within reach, but has been repeatedly spelled out for them. Their refusal to utilize the suggested methods to obtain the accurate measurements required, is a sure path to not only rejection of their paper (if they in fact do submit one) but perhaps even public ridicule after the fact.

It's unfortunate that stubbornness, pride and delusion reign over common sense in this case. Since the AT refuses to listen to anyone that questions their path, perhaps the true wake-up call will only come when the "no thanks" response to their paper fully sinks in.

.99
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 08:15:41 PM by poynt99 »

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2009, 07:29:49 PM »
They can believe what they want, but you may as well do the last final temperature measurement on the mosfet since you know better.

As for measuring power produced by the input source (e.g., battery), they have no valid argument for using a DC current probe. A good DC current probe will have add less inductance to the circuit than a 4" straight piece of wire! And it will add sub-pico farad capacitance. So the DC current probe is about as passive as it gets. The other method is too measure the DC voltage across the shunt with an ultra high impedance voltage meter, which often uses a FET op-amp input stage.

Anyhow, I say take the final mosfet temp & control measurements so we can bury this Ainslie claim. Why keep it going? Completing the measurements could save new comers a lot of time.

Paul

Offline poynt99

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Re: Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2009, 08:12:29 PM »
Hi 0c.

Thanks for that link. I read that before and was going to post a link as well, but thought those that want to know, will do so. ;)

.99

 

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