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Author Topic: Bob Boyce Hex Controller  (Read 75046 times)

Offline sterlinga

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Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« on: November 12, 2009, 06:48:28 PM »
There needs to be a main discussion thread on this topic.

Here are some links of relevance:

Project page: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Boyce_Hex_Controller - commenced Nov. 12, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/user/watkykjy1 - watkykjy1's YouTube channel

News story:
http://pesn.com/2009/11/12/Child_rides_on_free_energy_Boyce_watkykjy1/ Child Rides EV Toy on Boyce Free Energy! - A South African experimenter [who goes by watkykjy1] has modified an electrolysis circuit developed by Bob Boyce so that now it recharges his daughter's electric vehicle riding toy. What makes this remarkable is that the energy is not drawn from the wall but from the environment somehow. He's done this around 35 times now and knows of three replications of the effect by others.

OverUnity.com posts of relevance:
- http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2637.msg38008#msg38008 - Re: Talking about phase... by Bruce_TPU
- http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7417.msg177434#msg177434 - Re: The Bob Boyce challenge by aussepom
- http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3068.msg44853#msg44853 - The return of the Hungarian: FREE ENERGY from Wave-Fields... by tao

The attached images show the primary components:
- Hex controller by Bob Boyce
- Coil built by watkykjy1, per Boyce instructions
- Battery
- Scope shot of generation mode when battery is being charged through the hex controller being powered by the same battery.

Offline dankie

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 07:03:53 PM »
This is just Bob Boyce trying to hype a legend again  .

Watky is the biggest *mythical* ever , he left us waiting for months on so called *special results* only he just dissapeared and left us with encouraging words like a politician would . In the end the HHO Boyce system didnt work .

Thx but no thx .

Offline sterlinga

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 08:06:51 PM »
This is just Bob Boyce trying to hype a legend again  .

Watky is the biggest *mythical* ever , he left us waiting for months on so called *special results* only he just dissapeared and left us with encouraging words like a politician would . In the end the HHO Boyce system didnt work .

Thx but no thx .

It seems to me like this is a pretty good follow-up.  He's been at this for at least a month, and has helped three people replicate the effect so far.  It looks to me like one of the most significant accomplishments in a long time in this field, and he has been very responsive to my inquiries.  His silence has been out of sentiments of honoring Bob's NDA, and even in his disclosures to me last night and in his videos, he does not violate that.

I got an email from Bob today that I hope he will let me post.  Fascinating stuff.  Rather than complain, why don't you replicate?

Offline corona

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 07:54:39 AM »
Well I for one am very interested. It all seems to tie together in my mind surprisingly well with the little I've read on teslas ideas of scalar fields, as well as the general idea of sharp pulse recovery a-la bedini style pulse motors. I haven't done a lot of direct research in mosfet based pulse/impulse current tests, although I have planned on doing more (i've spent more of my time playing with magnet and basic pulse motors in the past) I've been trying to get into pulsed electrolysis for a long time, but had problems obtaining the SS locally at a price I can deal with, and I got stuck on plans to build a far too over-designed controller I have been designing and redesigning over the last 2 years and never actually building.

After reading about this last night however, today I repurposed an old prototype of a brushless motor controller I've also been working on for some time (ie ripped off excess components and made some new firmware), and now have a very cheap, 3 channel microcontroller based pulse generator.

Currently, it makes on-pulses (at the gate) 100nS wide (can be made wider in software) with mosfet gate rise time of 80nS and fall time of 20nS (these are hardware limitation). The period of the pulses is set by a potentiometer, with max and min set in software - currently 3uS to 340us although the period is currently a tad unstable at the low end (still have to clean up the code a little).

I tried a quick replication of @Watkykjy setup but I don't have an appropriate toroid, I just tried a large mains toroid (~120mm OD) I had hanging around, leaving the primary (240V) unconnected, and connecting the two isolated secondaries (18V) to two of the channels, with flyback diodes (not high speed diodes unfortunately) connected via a 100uH toroidal inductor back to input.
I had my (good rms) multimeter measuring current and every time I connected coil/s power consumption went up as expected classically, regardless of pulse period. I haven't tried adjusting pulse width yet.

Considering how quickly I chucked this together and the fact that my coils are completely different from the carefully wound ones @Watkykjy used this test doesn't disprove anything, although it obviously would have been great to see a positive result with such basic equipment.

In this configuration though the circuit is simply a multiphase boost converter, nothing special about it other than the fact the switching inductor has a second unconnected coil. It has plenty of ringing at the mosfet drain as usually seen in a switcher (I do a lot of work with switching regulator design). I have a feeling I need higher speed diodes to catch more of this ringing, I now feel this is the key. In normal switching design you don't want pulses that are too fast as they produce excessive ringing, that you then have to try to dampen to keep a stable regulator running. It would be interesting if that ringing is in fact the key to this kind of power collection.

I'd love to get a proper toroid with the right silver plated/teflon coated wire, although I can't see that happening real soon. I would however be happy to clean up the design of this pulse generator and share it though, as It's very simple, but will produce far cleaner and faster pulses that the oft used 556 based pwm generators. It's currently only got 25V fets on it (4mR ones though, so will handle a bucketload of current - 256A pulse), so can't let the output flyback to high, but I've got some cheap 60V fets I'm a fan of that I'll chuck in the design that should switch at a similar speed.

I don't know enough about trying to tune to a resonance with the coil, but I'm planning on reading a lot more into it, as that's obviously the key to this all. I'd like to discuss a lot of this on the waterfuelforall forum as this seems to be where most of these key people chat, as well as the yahoo group, but I guess everyone else has also applied to membership to these since this article came out as I haven't got accepted yet ;-) Oh well, maybe more people will jump onto this forum, there's lot of smart people around here.

Corona


Offline sterlinga

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 09:04:59 PM »
After reading about this last night however, today I repurposed an old prototype of a brushless motor controller I've also been working on for some time (ie ripped off excess components and made some new firmware), and now have a very cheap, 3 channel microcontroller based pulse generator.

Great work for giving it a whirl with what you had kicking around.  I look for good things from you when you actually use closer to the right config.

Sterling

Offline Frederic2k1

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2009, 04:06:36 PM »
Are there any other replicators on this board ?
The PDF made by Bob Boyce is really amazing und it fits exactly in the operation of Steven Mark's TPU.

It would be great if any others are trying to replicate this device. I will give it a try, but I can't get the same parts, as I'm not living in the united states.

Offline sterlinga

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2009, 04:53:02 PM »
Are there any other replicators on this board ?
The PDF made by Bob Boyce is really amazing und it fits exactly in the operation of Steven Mark's TPU.

It would be great if any others are trying to replicate this device. I will give it a try, but I can't get the same parts, as I'm not living in the united states.

The forum is at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/b-hex/
with sign-up at http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2009/11/12/Child_rides_on_free_energy_Boyce_watkykjy1/forum_application.htm

Project page at: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Boyce_Hex_Controller

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2009, 09:55:09 PM »
@sterlinga,

I'm have designed a 3 channel switch. It is NOT an replica of the controller
that Bob Boyce did, but my version can switch fast enough for the short
pulses required. I will soon receive the same Iron powder core and silver
coated, Teflon insulated copper wire for the core. So my toroid core will be
a close replica of the core seen in the videos. My design is open source
and can be copied, shared or posted on the net.

The design files and software can be downloaded here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/fastswitch.rar

Groundloop.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 10:59:39 PM by Groundloop »

Offline sterlinga

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 08:54:17 PM »
@sterlinga,

I'm have designed a 3 channel switch. [...] My design is open source
and can be copied, shared or posted on the net.

The design files and software can be downloaded here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/fastswitch.rar

Groundloop.

Way to go and good luck!  I posted your message an images here: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Boyce_Hex_Controller#Replications

Offline corona

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2009, 04:12:22 AM »
Ok, so moving ahead form my first dodgy test, which didn't even have phase shift between the channels, I've been reading and designing. From what I've come to believe, the phase shift is incredibly important, as is the at least 3 phase minimum, as the spinning of the magnetic fields seems to have an important effect. To this end I've whipped up a new pulse controller design. It'll be good for this and also to finally test an idea based on spinning fields I had over a year ago now and never got around to testing.

I'm using a luminary micro with an exceptional pwm subsystem, I've used it a couple of times already at work and they're amazing. Quite cheap too.

So the design is 3 Channel, pulse widths from ~100nS (ie maximum frequency ~5MHz). Should be able to have 120 degree phase shift between each channel even up to that frequency too.
80V fets, 16mR, 8A continuous, 50A pulsed.
USB connection for monitoring and control
16x2 LCD & pushbuttons for monitoring and control
Input voltage and current monitoring (will be rms naturally, form before the main bulk cap so should be accurate)
Voltage monitoring on switching nodes  (not sure how useful this will be due to the high switching speeds)

Hopefully I'll be able to build this and write the firmware in the not too distant future.

Andrew.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2009, 08:48:46 PM »
If there's a circuit that requires common components & chips such as 555 timers, then I'd love to replicate one. I have a lot of nanocrystalline & amorphous cores from Metglas & Hitachi if that helps.

What I like about this claim is the guy in the youtube video actually seems like he knows what he's doing, a professional.

Where can we find the circuit drawing.

Regards,
Paul

Offline sterlinga

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2009, 11:00:25 PM »
If there's a circuit that requires common components & chips such as 555 timers, then I'd love to replicate one. I have a lot of nanocrystalline & amorphous cores from Metglas & Hitachi if that helps.

What I like about this claim is the guy in the youtube video actually seems like he knows what he's doing, a professional.

Where can we find the circuit drawing.

Regards,
Paul

The project is being run through http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bob_Boyce_Hex_Controller

And the official forum is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/B-Hex
requiring filling out a survey and agreeing to a quasi NDA due to the dangers involved in the technology.

Here is a message I sent to that list today:
"Those of you on this list need to be patient because the people with the know-how are presently very busy with other responsibilities.  We look forward to when they can take the time to share the particulars of how to replicate this technology."

Offline xee2

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 01:36:34 AM »
@ corona

Hopefully I'll be able to build this and write the firmware in the not too distant future.

I read that you can buy the real circuit. I would think that it would be better (and probably cheaper) to buy an actual unit since if your design does not work you will not know if the fault is in your design or not.




Offline corona

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 09:28:14 PM »
From what was said in the original information Bob Boyce is not publicly selling his hex controller, he has just sold it to a very few trusted experimenters, and even then for a price over $1000. For something with approximately $30 in parts I don't see that as a bargain, especially as I frankly think the PWM3X range of controllers is extremely slow and highly unstable. The mosfet driving design is especially bad from a speed and control perspective, sure it's simple but really isn't at all suitable.
I am a lot more confidant about my own mosfet output stage than even the few details that have been mentioned about the hex controller one. I'm not saying the hex controller is bad by any means, and for sure it's the control side of it that's the most important, but when the program for the hex controller needs to be re-written to suit this style purpose anyway I would much rather buy my $30 in parts and build it myself.
Any besides the mosfets, I know atmels, I used to use them, and I don't anymore. For what you get they're expensive and not as capable as many other alternatives. The luminary mico I've chosen is just fabulous, the only reason they're not yet as popular in the community is that the programming environment is still far less streamlined to set up, but I'm working on fixing that too.

If any further information is released about the hex controller in the future I would love to share my mosfet and microcontroller experience and try to improve both designs for the good of this community, but until then, or if it never happens, I would like to have something to work with myself.

Andrew

Offline corona

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Re: Bob Boyce Hex Controller
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 09:36:48 PM »
If there's a circuit that requires common components & chips such as 555 timers, then I'd love to replicate one. I have a lot of nanocrystalline & amorphous cores from Metglas & Hitachi if that helps.

Oh yeah and Paul, what you're looking for is the PWM3x range of controllers (I think the latest is PWM3G although last time I checked only PWM3F had it's full schematic/pcb design released, although they're essentially the same). While I personally don't like the design, many people seem to have had success with it in the electrolysis bob boyce stuff, it's just never going to have the frequency stability and automatic tunability of a micro based design.
It should happily enough work for this, as far as I can tell you basically want three outputs, which will make pulses as thin and sharp as possible, each 120 degrees out of phase. Then you need to adjust frequency, probably pulse widths, and probably the phase angles a bit too (to counter inconsistencies in the physical layout of the coils).
I still don't know this for certain as it hasn't all been clearly documented publicly that I can find, but that's the best I've been able to ascertain.

Andrew

ps sterlinga, I would love to discuss all this on your new forum, but as I still haven't been accepted, I'll happily work through this forum and the Waterfuelforall one.