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Author Topic: Flynn's Parallel Path  (Read 58957 times)

Offline Drak

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Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2006, 09:51:13 PM »
Jake,

Quote
  Just remember - you have to get away from that extra force to produce a net torque!

  What exactly do you mean? Remember by reversing the polarity of the flynn device there is no longer any pull (0 pull) from the device on that end. The metal on the "right" rotor will just coast on by while the "left" rotor's metal will just be comming into view. Reversing the polarity back and forth causes the pull from 4 magnents (2E and 2P) to go from one end to the other. I'm not sure if that is what you are talking about.

 Drak

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2006, 09:51:13 PM »

jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2006, 10:18:17 PM »
What I mean is, in a "normal" motor, it requires no power to "let go" of a pole.  Anything using the Flynn design must be powered to pull, and powered to let go.  This means that you are giving up some of the benefit of the extra pull by having to energise to get the pole to release.

Your alternating scheme makes the best of the situation, but it only allows you to have one "pole" or whatever you want to call it.  Normally one would want poles clear around the rotor - for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't be discouraged about this, however.  Just pointing out that what benefits you in one way hurts you in another way.  In spite of what you may think from my posts, I do believe some interesting things are going to come from these type of designs.  I intend to really study what is out there before I try anything myself.  I think there are a lot of potholes we can avoid by looking at what has been done.  There are a lot of designs out there to glean from.  I think the past efforts, whether successful or failed, are worth studying before cutting metal.


Offline Drak

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Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2006, 10:31:49 PM »
Jake,

Quote
Your alternating scheme makes the best of the situation, but it only allows you to have one "pole" or whatever you want to call it.  Normally one would want poles clear around the rotor - for obvious reasons.

  That is the purpose of tying (with a chain) the two rotors together. They will be just a little out of sync but always just a little out of sync. So when the polarity is reversed and the pull is switched to the other side of the device that rotors magneticly attractive metal will just be comming around into the path of the flux, while the other side is free to go. Back and forth. You would have say 8 pieces of metal (depending on size of rotor) on one rotor and 8 on the other. The device would always be on, but it would always be pulling one rotor or the other, both linked by chain.

 Drak

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2006, 10:31:49 PM »
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Offline Drak

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Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2006, 10:38:21 PM »
Jake,

Quote
Normally one would want poles clear around the rotor - for obvious reasons.

  The more poles you add, the more energy you need to power those poles, and reversing the device (pole) would then be waste of energy because there would be nothing on the back side of each pole to use this flux to power the system. 

jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2006, 11:53:33 PM »
Send in a translator!

All machines of induction actuelles(dynamos, alternators, transformers, reels of Ruhmkorff, etc.)sont considerees like simple transformers of the energie(travail in heat, electricity, low tension in high voltage, etc, and conversely.) In reality, the presente decouverte demontre that inductive flow and induced flow are two forms opposees (!!!) of energy (one centrifuges, the other centripete) and that the induction coil included/understood well is not a simple transformer, but a marvellous multiplier of energy. The power remarkable of etincelle of rupture confirms this theorie fully and proves that flow induit(centripede) is increasingly energique than inductive flow (centrifugal)." Recitation-end!

Babblefish

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2006, 11:53:33 PM »
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jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2006, 03:09:19 AM »
The invention proceeds from the realization that between
electro-technology and the fluid engineering an analogy exists
existing existing-be-being these in it that an electromagnetic field
around leaders bent one as desired and a zone of flow are described
around arbitrary-any vortex filament by the same connection, i.e. Biot
Biot-Savart Gesetz.Die sizes of "increase in magnetic field strength"
und"Geschwindigkeitszunahme" of the zone of flow corresponds therefore
each other.....

jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2006, 01:30:33 PM »
Probably why motor designers hate open ended magnetic circuits.

Looks like the arrangement of the materials is very important.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2006, 01:30:33 PM »
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jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2006, 05:15:59 AM »
User..1  You are right on all points.  Build it and let me know how it works.



de Lanca (is this the proper way to address you?)

I have found the patent, and I printed the drawing. (attached to this post)

Help with this: (Wie die meisten faulen Amerikaner spreche ich nicht Deutsches)-blablafish

1 = housing/case?
2 = shaft?
3 = switch cam?
4 = input power connection?
5 = electromagnet?
6 = dauermagnete - permanent magnet?
7 = ? magnetic bearing?? some kind of bearing.
8 = ? plate??
9 = Isolator?  Magnetic isolation or physical (shock) isolation?

What is the theory of the motor? It is not clear why this is more than a simple motor.

I don't want money for the drawings.  I want to find the right project and help.  I can't spend a lot of money, but I have a lot of tools and resources that can be helpful if we can decide on a project to design and build.

I would like to look at some promising magnetic motors and design our own, using the best ideas.  Then we can work together on the design.  We can share drawings and information here until we think we have a good design, then build it and test.

I will study US5463914 tomorrow.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2006, 10:11:11 AM »
Hi Jake and Lanca,

I found the English Abstract of this patent at the European Patent Office.
Also I included my understanding/best guess on the Figure's numbered text. I used online translator and a German technical dictionary for the Figure text.

DE3602039 Machine for obtaining energy, without any hazardous materials, in accordance with the energy principle of nature                                                      
Publication date: 1986-06-19
Inventor: GRAMBERG HANS-GEORG-WALTER (DE)       

Abstract of DE3602039:  In the case of the subject matter of the patent application, the electrical input energy which is supplied in a pulsed manner is absorbed simultaneously by both poles of the electromagnet which is mounted, as is shown on the attached schematic drawing, firmly on the outer framework of the subject matter of the application, and is at the same time forced as fast as a flash of lightning from these two poles to both poles of the permanent magnet which in each case rotates past and is in the form of a horseshoe, from which permanent magnets the same input energy is at the same time once again forced back on to both poles of the electromagnet as fast as a flash of lightning and thus acts in a repelling manner four times, that is to say twice with double the force, as fast as a flash of lightning. All the repulsions are in the form of two beams and are mutual, that is to say in each case two times twice, that is to say four times, from in each case one input energy quantum, as in the case of the energy principle of nature between the sun and earth. In the case of the subject matter of the invention, when the electromagnet which is mounted firmly on the outer framework is subjected to current in a pulsed manner in each case, this results in the rotor rotating four times as quickly, on the one hand as a result of the quadruple full-inten-sity repulsion from in each case one electrical input energy quantum, without any moving-away or passage loss in terms of input energy and on the other hand as a result of the traction of the permanent magnet, which is located on the outer edge of the rotor, to the electromagnet shortly before it is subjected to current, in each case in a pulsed manner, as fast as a flash of lightning.

Figure explanations:

1 frame of the machine
2 rotary axis from brass
3 arm-switch fixed to the rotary axis 
4 current source 
5 electromagnets 
6 permanent magnets in horseshoe form  (dauer magnet=permanent magnet)
8 (End)Supports
9 insulating pieces  (not clear for me if they are shock absorbers or magnetic shieldings)
7 full-ring-shaped horseshoe (i.e. toroidal) magnets facing (each other) with their side Poles of the same name to compensate the earth attraction (gravity),  with change of the current supply contacts (as) the rotor walks around on the left or on the right.  (I put my extra, explaining words in parentheses, they are not included in the original German text)

Unfortunately it is also not clear for me yet why or how this setup is overunity.

Regards
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2006, 10:11:11 AM »
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jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2006, 01:51:33 PM »
Thanks, Gyula

The design is not mechanically strong either.  If the method of operation turns out to be acceptable, we will have to change the mechanical design, becuase it will break apart from centrifugal force, "as fast as a flash of lightning"!!

I studied http://www.kundelmotor.com/ last night.  This is interesting - appeared here in another topic.  It doesn't look like an overunity opportunity, but it has some design features that I like.  I wonder about the eddy currents in this type of action.  It looks like the concept would minimize eddy current effects.  The concept is good but his implementation is not.  I think many improvements can be made to his concept to create something interesting.

jake

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2006, 03:14:49 PM »
Quote
It's partly described in  US5926083.
CAREFULLY study it.

User,

I did carefully study it.  I don't agree with the analysis in the patent and I explained why in an earlier post.

Lets quit talking about it now.

Build it and show us.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2006, 03:14:49 PM »
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gn0stik

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2006, 07:45:37 PM »
Has anybody built one of these things? Seems to me it would be pretty simple to take a couple of small bits of iron, some winding wire and a couple of magnets and test the basic principle. Has anyone done this? If not I fail to see the point in speculating any further on it. If this thread has any point it would be verification, otherwise we're just spinning our wheels right? Forgive me if I missed it, as I lost interest in this thread a long time ago, when it looked like we were just going to talk it to death.

Offline JackH

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  • Posts: 250
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2006, 04:47:31 AM »
Well here I go.   About two years ago I ended a two year work on the Flynn Parallel Path motor design.   I studied all his drawings and info on his web site.

In that two years I built five motors on his design.  The best I could get out of the motors was around %95 efficiency.  Now that was not bad, the motors all used brushes to activate the coils.  Not bad for a brush motor, however I could never get overunity with any one of them.   I used all types of magnets including ceramic and rare earth N45's and N48's.  These motors were all built using ceramic bearings, the drage was keept to a mininum.  The bigest problem I had was over saturating the silicon steel laminat and I couldn't figure out how to build the motor without that problem.  Maybe Flynn has a secret, I don't know.  Now before you get huffy, I'm just saying I couldn't get it to go overunity, however somebody else may do so.

Now the Parallel Path Idea does work, but incorperating it in a motor where histeress and back emf takes place, I just could not get good results.

At that point I new I had to figure out a way to work the Parallel path a different way or it just was not going to be a seccess.  Thats where I'm at today.  I think I figured out a better way to get the job done.  I'm still working on it.

JackH

gn0stik

  • Guest
Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2006, 04:52:06 AM »
Thanks Jack!

I knew someone had to have done this. It seemed too basic a concept for someone to not tinker with it.

Now we have some solid results to refer to..

BTW Jack did you try mu-metal shielding to avoid saturation? It's expensive, and I don't know the configuration of the motor you built, but it might help a lot. Depending on what the siSteel was for of course.

Offline JackH

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Re: Flynn's Parallel Path
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2006, 04:33:05 AM »
Hello gn0stik,

No I didn't try mu-metal, however I really didn't think it would work to well because I don't think it has a very high resistence to electric flow.  If that's the case histeress would have been an even bigger problem.  I really do not know too much about this mu-metal, maybe that IS the secret.

I would really like to try some of this mu-metal on my motors, maybe it would be much better than silicon steel laminet.  I contacted the manufacture last week about it but it is way out of my budget at this point.

I think maybe that Flynn has not completly given the full details on his motor.  After reading of how he was getting so much HP out of such a small motor, maybe I have missed something.   All I know is that I spent the better part of two years making models trying to make it go over unity.

Later,,,,,JackH

 

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