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Author Topic: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena  (Read 51043 times)

Offline EMdevices

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A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« on: November 03, 2009, 03:40:48 AM »
Hello friends,

I've pondered the upside down phenomena exhibited by the first TPU  (FTPU) posted by Steven Mark, for quite some time.   Today as I was playing with my coils I realized that I have possibly stumbled on the phenomena.   

As you may recall,  the phenomena involves turning the TPU up-side-down and observing that it stops producing electricity.  In the video I don't actually have the coils tied together but you can see clearly that the order of the coils is important.

Electricity wires tend to pass through my wall a bit higher, perhaps in the attic and this might shed some light on the directionality.

Here's the link to my video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMq657dgYT4

and here is a closeup of my resonant coils.

EM

P.S.  I hope none of you fault me for pursuing resonant magnetic fields.  All I have to do now is perfect my TPUs and add the all important OUTPUT STAGE.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 04:22:38 AM by EMdevices »

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Offline poynt99

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2009, 04:26:43 AM »
That's pretty cool EM.

How do you tune those coils to 60Hz with such a small inductance and capacitance?

Does it only work in one location in your house?

.99

Offline EMdevices

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 04:35:08 AM »
@poynt99

they are not tuned to 60 Hz, more like 25 kHz or so (haven't measured it in a while).  Like I mentioned in my previous postings of this nature, this high frequency energy is present on the house electricity wires, so it's not only 60 Hz that flows on those wires.

It works in many locations in my house, to varying degrees.

EM

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2009, 04:35:08 AM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2009, 04:58:30 AM »
If you were to fix those two coils together at a relative position that gives a good intensity, what would happen if you moved around the room with it?

Seems to me that SM could move anywhere and with any orientation (later models).

Assuming those two coils are both tuned to the same frequency, it seems as though one acts as a kind of Fresnel lens focusing the EM energy into the other.

Is this 25khz one of the stronger harmonics there, or was this just a random choice of frequency?

.99

Offline EMdevices

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 05:40:05 AM »
The 25 kHz or so frequency is by no means arbitrary, I found it using my oscilloscope a while ago.  That's why I encourage people to determine a magnetic frequency first, and then work on tuning into it, just like SM said, but it seems to fall on death ears. Don't assume my frequency will be the same as your, it may or may not. 

I will try and tie those coils together so I have a stable unit I can use, or maybe I'll build another TPU with two coils on it.  Moving around the house I loose the signal, I really have to be close to the walls where there is wiring or lighting outlets, etc..  I have managed to improve the distance by using a resistor in series with the diode, but there are other arrangements I'm dying to try soon.  Judging from the diodes and the electrolytic capacitors seen in SM's large TPU, I want to use the same to charge up a capacitor and then I can use that energy with my classic inverters/blocking oscillators I've built in the past.  I think I should be able to power up a decent 40 watt or 60 watt light bulb in the near future.  (if you remember my first video, I was about 1 foot away from the wall, now I can be about 3 feet away)

The Fresnel lens is a good concept. The coil on top is the one that's not loaded so it vibrates more freely, so it can gather the energy a bit better and focus it close to my bottom coil, which is loaded.  By the way, the resistor is about 40 ohms, so it's loaded pretty good relative to the high impedance of a parallel resonant tank.

I just wish I had more time, now I'm back to work for the rest of the week. We'll see how I feel next weekend, I might start building something more complex...

EM

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 05:40:05 AM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2009, 11:21:12 AM »
@EM

So you see there can be a bit of difference between magnetic and electro-magnetic resonance when dealing with LF and below?
25k? Yes but I always see more around 35k. It probably does vary.

I'm not saying I agree with the utility source concept. Rather, utility or nearby wiring could be an unexpected/unwilling transport mechanism.

Are you near any LF time signal sources?
WWVB, perhaps?


Offline wattsup

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 01:38:29 PM »
@EM

I guess you tried that in all the possible combinations.

Big loop clockwise, small loop clockwise.
Big loop clockwise, small loop counter-clockwise.
Big loop counter-clockwise, small loop clockwise.
Big loop counter-clockwise, small loop counter-clockwise.

Then tried these again with the big loop under the small loop, etc., so see all the possible mixes.

Now consider the FTPU has a center toroid. If that toroid could work the same way as your small loop, then the toroid core could start moving that power around and around to amplify the output.

Then the next step could be to pass one side of the big top loop through the toroid center to a big bottom loop, then from there back through the toroid center to the big top loop again, making two big loops (top and bottom) connected together through the center of the toroid.

I have always wondered why the FTPU toroid had two different wire pairs (two thin blacks and two thicker white wires) and curiously, the right side white wires look very similar to the loop wires. The black wires could be the toroid output in bucking mode and the white wires could be simply part of the outer loops.

This way, the big loops energize the toroid, increase in the toroid core, the toroid center then gives more directionality to the big loop wires going through the toroid center to increase the big loops tension, that then increases the center toroid again and again, working with gain. Hmmmmmmm. I like it.

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 01:38:29 PM »
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Offline Grumpy

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 01:52:40 PM »
@poynt99

they are not tuned to 60 Hz, more like 25 kHz or so (haven't measured it in a while).  Like I mentioned in my previous postings of this nature, this high frequency energy is present on the house electricity wires, so it's not only 60 Hz that flows on those wires.

It works in many locations in my house, to varying degrees.

EM

25khz is used in flicker-free fluorescent lights (electronic ballasts)


Offline giantkiller

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 07:36:55 PM »
@EM,
Nice video! Since this is relatively easy to demo then for the sceptics in us tape wooden sticks to each coil and lift the coils using theses wooden isolators. I just got done attaching iron loops to magnets and when touching this the peak to peak goes from 10mv to 200mv but only in certain positions of my handling.

--gk.

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 07:36:55 PM »
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 07:40:29 PM »
@wattsup,
I see what you are saying here and thought about this new configuration looking like the core in this picture.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8227.0;attach=38631

@EM

I guess you tried that in all the possible combinations.

Big loop clockwise, small loop clockwise.
Big loop clockwise, small loop counter-clockwise.
Big loop counter-clockwise, small loop clockwise.
Big loop counter-clockwise, small loop counter-clockwise.

Then tried these again with the big loop under the small loop, etc., so see all the possible mixes.

Now consider the FTPU has a center toroid. If that toroid could work the same way as your small loop, then the toroid core could start moving that power around and around to amplify the output.

Then the next step could be to pass one side of the big top loop through the toroid center to a big bottom loop, then from there back through the toroid center to the big top loop again, making two big loops (top and bottom) connected together through the center of the toroid.

I have always wondered why the FTPU toroid had two different wire pairs (two thin blacks and two thicker white wires) and curiously, the right side white wires look very similar to the loop wires. The black wires could be the toroid output in bucking mode and the white wires could be simply part of the outer loops.

This way, the big loops energize the toroid, increase in the toroid core, the toroid center then gives more directionality to the big loop wires going through the toroid center to increase the big loops tension, that then increases the center toroid again and again, working with gain. Hmmmmmmm. I like it.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 09:00:17 PM by giantkiller »

Offline SPP-48

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 04:50:04 PM »
Thats pretty cool EM.
You could be onto something for remote trickle charging of cell phones or laptop computers within buildings.
Do you think it would still work if it was small and compact.

Sam

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 04:50:04 PM »
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 08:46:32 PM »
The picture depicts the field actuation of the larger  Hi 'Q' resonant loop. The wave fluctuates between the green circle which is the half wave point which shows the field line outside the inner coil and the red circle, which is the quarter wave length. The outer loop field crosses into the inner coil exciting by inductance the inner coil thereby lighting the LED.

If you want the inner loop to light the LED below the outer loop you must flip the inner loop over or put an LED in parallel with the existing one but in reverse. You can then watch both LEDs flip-flop states as the inner coil is passed through the level horizontal plane into each sides induction point.

Because of resonance the outer loop field never diminshes to zero which explains why the LED doesn't light when at the level position.

--gk.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 11:53:49 PM by giantkiller »

Offline stprue

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 12:14:15 AM »
@ EM

Very cook video...a little dark though but I guess you can see the led better that way anyway.  I have a question...Will the LED light if you are not holding the smaller coil?  It looks way to bright to be skin effect but I'm curious???  Also could you supply us with the types of wire and caps?

Thanks...Stew

Offline innovation_station

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2009, 09:14:20 PM »
GREAT WORK EM!

I  hope it is still not a phenomena

lol

awesome coils..!

ist

Offline stprue

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Re: A validation of the UP-SIDE-DOWN phenomena
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2009, 07:34:52 PM »
@EMD

Ok here is mine...Now what can I do to make it work?

 ???

 

OneLink