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Author Topic: Scalar Wave - Energy  (Read 87311 times)

Offline xee2

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2010, 04:58:29 AM »
@ Loner

Have you tried any scalar wave experiments? What kind of results did you get if you did?


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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2010, 04:58:29 AM »

Offline BEP

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2010, 05:15:54 AM »
Original SS was below noise floor and UWB.

I think we are still talking oranges and apples.

SS wasn't the bandwidth of the original UWB as developed by the originators of Time-Domain, Inc.
Up until the mid 90's SS's main distance and bandwidth limitations were due to ethernet collision packet timing issues. At that time Time-Domain was sending collision free 40mbyte of actual throughput up to 10 miles non-line-of-sight (not 'near line of site' as it was re-termed by competitors who could not compete technically).
The same signal type was used to locate buried survivors of the last big Mexican Earth quake. Good luck doing that with TEM.

The term 'UWB' was originally a method like 'SS', not an amount of bandwidth. We see this word/idea re-definition all the time. Most of this seen by me has been from Microsoft.

Offline sparks

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2010, 05:53:24 AM »
   Tesla and those brushes.  I think they were cold cathode emissions in an ionized gas.  Knowing Tesla he was working a little air in a partially evacuated tube with some low duty high amplitude spikes matched to the optimum ionizing frequency of the gas.  Plasma is a form of matter that on the whole exibits electrical neutrality while easily being coerced into movement by magnetic field changes.  Electrons in a plasma are not only free they are moving in a current.   These currents can be a plancks length up to the length of the Universe.  The magnetic field disruption enormous to very minute from the plasma currents.  My piezo electric buzzer changes its frequency depending on magnetic field changes also.  I guess it is back to trying to figure out a scalar wave inferometer of some sort.  Got as far as the piezo crystal then my place got hot.  Damn little sonic strobe light stopped beating.  Now I gotta get it chirping again.

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2010, 05:53:24 AM »
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Offline xee2

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2010, 09:00:12 AM »
@ BEP

I think we are still talking oranges and apples.

Perhaps we are. The SS I am talking about was originally (1960's) used as a means of communications that could not be detected. Bandwidths were up to several GHz. Could not be detected because signal energy was much lower than noise floor and just looked like noise. Was very secret until somehow it got leaked. Now in common use for all sorts of things (with smaller bandwidths). It seems to fit the description of your birdie. But, if you are sure birdie was not SS then I will take your word for it.


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Offline BEP

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2010, 12:02:04 PM »
I'm absolutely sure the birdie was nothing of the sort. While I never saw a schematic, the parts count and contents would make it similar to a grid-dip meter.

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2010, 12:02:04 PM »
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Offline xee2

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2010, 06:10:46 PM »
@ BEP, Loner

Well I do not think it is a scalar wave, but I was able to transmit a signal from inside of a stainless steel can to a small coil outside of the can. So I have confirmed that it is possible to send signals out of a Faraday cage.

Offline BEP

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2010, 06:36:12 PM »
Maybe not but it is interesting experimenting anyway.

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2010, 06:36:12 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2010, 01:50:10 AM »
@Loner,

It is clear to me that I am no LEM expert. Otherwise, I would be pulling some very odd rabbits out of my hat.

My cap analogy wasn't given to say the gaps were acting like caps. Like you said, perhaps in some very small way. It was given to bring out the switching action. And switching is indeed what gaps do. If one side is sharply pointed and the other a wide flat surface you have the equivalent of a rectifier. (also where the schematic symbol for a rectifier came from  :D)

I think the most important thing that should be realized from the triple gap experiment is the fact the dielectric does conduct charge. Not that the current flows at the ends first.

My understanding of the triple gap/cap experiment is this:

The reason why the ends fire first is because there is where the greatest separation of potential exists until they do fire. Then the greatest separation of potential is in the middle gap so it fires.

As for differences in color.... I have heard that many times before. Unfortunately, my spark color differences were related to the gap material, frequency and voltage.

Please! Do Not toss any of your results out - documented or in mind. I've done that too often and regret it immensely.

I always form my own opinions of results - I suggest you do the same. If we all do this then there is a pretty good chance at least one of us is right  :)

Cell tower antennas use such a variety of supposed innovation. From what you describe I would say each section is fed by a waveguide or the large oval or rectangular rigid coaxial transmission line. Either would be coupled to the antenna with a very small length of rigid conductor or a small open or closed conductor loop. A lot of possibilities there.

They normally use stacked elements with varying spacing between the elements (helps with minus radiation angle for closer clients and still concentrates most energy to where most people are... the ground) Usually these antennas will look like they are vertical polarization but they are not.

Oops.. being a bit wordy tonight...



Offline xee2

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2010, 01:52:53 AM »
@ Loner

"I hope you can help me out" - and I hope you can help me out. It should all work best if we help each other. I spent 25 years as an RF engineer so I know that field pretty well. But there are many other fields I know nothing about.

"I can't imagine the Gaps acted like A" - there is capacitance between any two unconnected conductors, no matter how small or how far apart. But if they are small and far apart the capacitance is so small it is just considered an open circuit.

"I am questioning my results" - I think your result were correct (very clever setup), I just think you are interpreting them incorrectly.

"The first part was the ends DID spark first, then the middle" - this is what I would expect to happen, so I think your results are correct.

"spark didn't coincide with the measured voltage spike on the scope" - can not explain this. Probably has something to do with how you had scope attached.

"I really didn't think this was about "Swithing" - it is not about switching. It is about how the charge accumulates on the plates of the capacitors. It may take a while for you to understand this because it is not a way of thinking that you normally work with. You may note, it took a while for me to understand what was happening, and I am suppose to know about these kinds of things. I suspect that there are many, many, others who would not understand. But I am sure you will because you have an open mind. By the way, I remember now this is a trick question used to test physics students (many of whom get it wrong).

"I have no information at all when it comes to ...Scalar type of signals" - well you have more than me and your help would be appreciated.

"At this point, I don't think I want to know" - I hope that does not mean you no longer care about learning new things.

Think about the explanation I gave for the spark gaps. If may take you a while since this in new to you, but I think you will eventually see how it works. Put 3 caps in series and measure the voltage across the center cap. It should be zero volts. Now ask yourself, how can a spark jump between two points at the same voltage. If you see that, then you will see that there can not be a spark in the center gap until one side as had its voltage increased.

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2010, 01:52:53 AM »
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Offline xee2

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2010, 02:40:09 AM »
@ Loner

Please note, I agree that your results were correct. In the case of 3 gaps the energy comes in from both ends to the middle. But, that is not what happens in a wire. At lease to my understanding.




Offline xee2

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2010, 03:03:09 AM »
@ Loner

I have been trying to get information about Tesla's 200 mile test from the web. But with not much luck. Do you know how much power he was using to transmit and how the received power was measured? Did they light up light bulbs at the receiver to determine power received, use a spark, what?


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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2010, 03:03:09 AM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2010, 03:44:14 AM »
       When a diver needs to signal for help he uses morse code by smacking rocks together.  The shock wave heard.  If the diver takes the same amount of energy and lifts the rock up and down in the water it is not heard.  Sonic waves are changes in pressure.  Tesla once stated to one of his field engineers upon inspection of his tower construction that he was planning on making the whole earth quiver.  When a capacitor plate is voided of charge  carriers or filled with antielectrons which have negative mass assignment would we expect the metal to be less dense than one filled with electrons.  The capacitor would bubble up if it became less dense than the surrounding density.  Whereas when the capacitor plate is filled with electrons it is more dense or massive and would tend to sink.  Upon shorting of the two capacitor plates or return of the two capacitor plates to the same density the plate that bubbled up would sink and the plate that sunk would start to bubble up in relationship to the scalar density field surrounding the capacitor. 

Offline BEP

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2010, 12:55:57 PM »
@Loner,

On the waveguide...

The transmission line used can be a wide variety of things but most towers use a rectangular looking cable like line. The rectangular part is due to the easy/hard dimensions (radio slang for the E and H dimensions).
Don't think the E H dims must be a number based upon the TEM wavelength of the signal. When you see a cable used that is obviously much smaller than any wavelength get them to explain this. They can't or won't. They'll just say it works or it is suggested by the manufacturer. If it is anything but a round cross-section then some waveguide principles are being used. Round can mean it is coax and uses dielectric conduction (LEM). They won't expand upon that either.

I won't claim to be a long time RF engineer. My calling was and is a much broader range. However, Uncle Sam spent a considerable amount of time and money to train me in the wonderful world of wave propagation (all forms  8) )

As far as cell phones and sticking your head in a microwave oven.... It is the same thing. It is just a slower death. Most cell phones max around 300mW P-P but do understand the tower controls the output of your cell. If the tower can't hear your cell it will tell it to speak louder.

You know your battery will drain faster in fringe areas? At the same time did you notice a strange heat in your head as well as in your hand holding the cell? Most cell phones can peak out at 5 Watts.

Offline sparks

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2010, 01:25:52 PM »
  That must be the same radiation that lights a flurscent bulb when a copper antennae terminates in a glass of water.  The copper antennae was run alongside the grow lamp.  No connection to the fillament.  The standing waves appear to have some effect on florescence.  Without the glass of water is was very difficult to get the tube to fire.  Even the addition of a steel alligator clip in the open circuit made it very difficult to light the bulb.  The radiation off the end of the copper antennae was the usual radiant heating effect.  This was very different than the radiation coming off of the magnetically confined plasma I got going one day with a flyback.  That was making cold currents.  Literal cold currents.  It could have been an anomally because the following hours were spent in the exact center of a huge lowpressure circulation and the point of the experiment was ground zero. It could have been totally unrelated but it was pretty scary to go outside and see a perfect halo of cumulous clouds around the experiment site.
The flag was wrapped around the flag pole so tight it looked like a barber pole from the wind blowing in a circle.  I will not power this thing up where I am.  Way too much heated vapor round here.

Offline forest

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Re: Scalar Wave - Energy
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2010, 07:47:45 PM »
How can we distinguish Rf and scalar waves ?
What is the reaction of water on RF ? If I put a RF transmitter antenna  under water can I detect RF outside ?

 

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