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New Battery systems => Zinc Air batteries => Topic started by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 03:14:09 AM

Title: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 03:14:09 AM
Hi All,
we have a breakthrough in selfmade Zinc Air batteries.

These types of batteries can have about 4 times more power
than normal Li-Ion batteries.

Also Zinc is very widely available and these batteries can not explode
versus Lithium batteries, so Zinc Air Cells are very safe and environment friendly.

Now a few Swedish experimentors have come up with a selfmade version which puts out
1.5 amp for this little cell they made.

Here is the translated posting from Google translator,
unfortunately I don´t speak Swedish and the automatic translation
is not too good, maybe a few swedish people can help translate it better:

See:
http://elbil.forum24.se/elbil-about844-0-asc-100.html
   
A short and quick summary of the evening kolpressning:
-WOW!
Is still somewhat confused and shocked by the unbelievable high power values obtained from our respective testing luftkatoder ...!
MrBlues would obviously be the worst (...) and pulled early for a peak current value of all 3 amps from a testyta of about 4 cm2 ......!
Then kolpressningen was the first and so rather imperfect and ooptimerad later found probable value could be somewhat senseless 1 amp per cm2! ! !
-The mixing of manganese nitrate, carbon black and Teflon as MrBlues has confused is therefore verging on the professional class, while being hydrophobic, and so reduces the need for a separate (hydrophobic) air-diaphragm on the first try ......
I was actually rather småsur (...) and I thought everything that I could also donor to a sensational value stream ...
Mkt really, about 1.5 amperes from an area of about 4 cm2. In my defense may be that Teflon The involvement was in substandard and imprecise way. There is clearly an enormous improvement to be done! Yet compared with the peak-power value obtained previously at home the other day, the 140 mA (0.140 A), was the result of Teflon and off considerably for the better, now, therefore, 0.375 A per cm2, which also must be improved with optimized compression and Teflon-percent.
MrBlues got their entire Air Cathode pre-pressed before hemmfärds-time, and learn well probably put together a complete full-scale cell at home in the garage shortly. This will give their all 200 cm2 of an overall peak-current of 1 A by 200 cm2 = 200 Ampere (two hundred amperes), folks, we're talking thick jumper cables here ....!
As I said, still have not quite recovered myself, may write more later when I calmly me ....
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 03:23:13 AM
Before the user Anders wrote in Swedish:

I väntan på den stora pressardagen görs ett förtest med endast en liten testbit av strömnät och Silverkolpulver manuellt muskel-pressat med tesked över 1 cm2 yta, Nedsänkt i en liten rostfri bytta med Zink i botten och Luftkatoden ovanför mäts den lilla ström som ev kommer från så liten yta. Med alla (ca 5) gram Silver som lösts upp i Silvergeneratorn och förhoppningsvis/troligtvis adsorberats i kolpulvret är det inte helt orimliga värdet 50 mA kontinuerligt (nominellt) tänkbart, kanske tom 100 mA !
Detta innebär i så fall för den färdiga prototypcellen på ca 200 cm2 att minimum 10 A kommer ur den lilla lunchlådan (cellkärlet) med samtidigt 1 V, vilket blir 10 W effekt, ungefär vad en baklampa drar..! I bästa fall 20 A, och 20 W..!
Om dessa värden uppnås är steget inom räckhåll för en praktisk (halvkommersiell) batteriproduktion., i första hand för ett batteripaket till den egna elutombordaren som drar 32 A (12 V). Känslan av att åka runt med dingen ljudlöst driven av ett helt eget hemmagjort batteripaket som bara går och går utan att nästan aldrig ta slut, till tiondelens vikt och pris mot bly, är värd flera gånger om den möda som hittills lagts på detta batteriprojekt ! Ser framför mig hur jag skrattar och nästan hånler åt dom numera svindyra och alltjämt ändå värdelösa blyklumparna vid en promenad bland tex Biltemas batterihyllor.....och tänker på vad var och en själv så genant mkt bättre och nästan pinsamt lätt kan åstadkomma hemma i garaget (eller köket) med busbilliga och busenkla medel -Zink-Luftbatteriet.
När och om dessa testresultat bekräftas avses en enkel skriftlig sumering på Svenska och Engelska i denna batteri-byggarkonst göras och läggas ut på diverse elfordons-sajter Jorden runt. Samt ev att en video för tex YouTube görs och läggs upp där. Uppmanar Er Forumsmedlemmar att redan nu förbereda medverkan till denna revolutionerande kunskap-spridning. Ju fler som vet, desto bättre!
Eftersom inte alla vare sig har tid eller förutsättningar att själva sätta ihop ett Zink-Luftbatteri från grunden, förstås varför en kommersiell batterifabrik kan komma att etableras (fritt av den som vill!) så småningom. Tänker för egen del i så fall på Estland med låglönearbetskraft och billigare fabrikslokaler samt materiel. Fast säger ju inte heller nej till Svenska bidrags-incitament, från kanske kommuner som högt värderar och eftersträvar nya arbetstillfällen... Så ett nytt Tudor är inte omöjligt för min del !

Bilden nedan visar det nu torkade Silverkolet, som smetats jämt och slätt (bara för att det gick...). Anar därtill nu hur förmodligen träkolsbriketter (för grillning) framställs. Först smular man kol (träkols-aska, eller gruvbrutet mineral-stenkol) och sedan pressar ihop det i en form, förmodligen också impregnerat med fotogen eller annat flyktigt brännbart...!?

Inte världens snyggaste förtest (se bilder), men fick till en hyffsad test-luftkatod med det nya Silverkolet (för prototyp nr 3). Effektiv Luftkatodarea drygt 1 cm2, dock inte alls nämnvärt sammanpressat kolpulver...
Så vad blev det för värden då på Amperemätaren................? (ursäkta, försöker bara hålla Er på spänn...)
Okej,........första nedsänkningen i elyten gav så stora värden samtidigt som den tämligen batterisvaga digitalmultimetern fladdrade i displayen...att jag undrade om ett UFO just paserade ovanför huset..... -Hela 140 mA toppnoterades från denna lilla förskrämda testbit på endast 1 cm2......! Att jämföras med förra prototypen nr 2 som nästan skäms med sina endast 5 mA/cm2 (1 A maxström per 190 cm2 katodarea)..... Teoretiskt skulle den maximala strömtätheten kanske kunna fördubblas vid en optimal sammanpressning (till den dubbla kolvikten per volym), alltså 280 mA/cm2...! Snällt avrundat uppåt blir det 300 mA/cm2, samma som proffskatoderna har nominellt (kontinuerligt)!
-Ha, Electric Fuel och Company, släng er i väggen....!
Ja, ja, nu varade inte lyckan hela tiden. Efter första nedsänkningen (mitt pucko dränkte ju hela Luftkatoden så att ingen luft kunde komma åt Luftmembranet) togs den upp och torkades av på ovanytan, sänktes nu denna gång inte ner mer än att Luftmembranet var aldeles ovanför elyt-ytan, och fick lite olika värden allt eftersom; 30 mA ena stunden, 70 andra, osv, men tror att ett rimligt genomsnittsvärde hamnar på 50 mA kontinuerlig max strömtäthet!
-Inte dåligt pinkat ändå!
Med en lyckad pressning blir detta värde till kanske 100 mA/cm2...-Nu pratar vi snart batterifabrik i Estland nästa...!
Nu blir ju dock det nominella (kontinuerliga) strömvärdet (vid nominellt spänningsfall på 0,4 V) ännu lägre då ovan siffror gäller ren kortslutning rätt igenom Amperemätaren (med tillföljande 0 V), kanske en tiondel av topp-maxvärdet (enl tidigare prototyp), skulle isf ge ca 30 mA/cm2.

Så här dagen efter testet gjordes en ny strömkoll, och det där första berömda supervärdet på 140 mA ville väl inte direkt infinna sig, mätaren står och fladrar mellan 70 och 30 mA som vanligt, bara en kort knappt märkbar högre strömpuls aldeles i början på nedsänkningen i elyten. Uppskattar alltjämt nuvarande kontinuerliga max-strömtäthet till ca 50 mA/cm2, och då tidigare experiment givit att kontinuerligt nominellt strömvärde (vid 0,4 V spänningsfall) varit ca en sjundedel av toppvärdet , fås 7 mA/cm2. Om pressningen lyckas fördubbla detta till 14 mA är väl osäkert, men garderar med 10 mA som för nu uppskattat slutresultat, vilket skulle ge endast 2 A kontinuerligt ur lunchlådan (cellkärlet) samtidigt med 1 V och effekten 2 W.
-Ropade hurra innan det kanske egentligen var dags....fast återstår konkretare uppgifter framåt Onsdag.
Återkommer då!


English automatic Google translation:

In anticipation of the big presses days makes a förtest with only a small testbit of Strömnäs and Silverkolpulver manual muscle-pressed with the teaspoon over 1 cm2 of surface, submerged in a small stainless steel tub with zinc in the bottom and Luftkatoden measured above the small stream that possibly comes from so little space. With all (about 5) grams of silver dissolved in Silver Generator and hopefully / probably adsorbed in the toner is not completely unreasonable value of 50 mA continuous (nominal) conceivable, maybe even 100 mA!
That means if so, to the finished prototype cell to approximately 200 cm2 to a minimum 10 A comes from the little lunch box (cell receptacle) simultaneously with 1 V, which is 10 watts, about what a drag baklampa ..! At best, 20 A, and 20 W..!
If those values are the step within the reach of a convenient (semi-commercial) battery production., Primarily for a battery pack to its own elutombordaren that draws 32 A (12 V). The feeling of going around with dingen noiselessly driven by an entirely his own home made battery pack, which just goes and goes, but that almost never end, to the tenth lens weight and price of lead, is worth several times over the effort so far put on this battery project! Can imagine how I laughed and almost FLEER at them now the expensive and yet still worthless blyklumparna for a walk among tex Biltemas battery shelves ..... and think about what each of you so embarrassing mkt better and almost embarrassingly easy to make at home garage (or kitchen) with busbilliga and busenkla medium-Zinc-air battery.
When and if these test results are confirmed for a simple sumering written in Swedish and English in this battery-byggarkonst and posted on various electric vehicle sites Around the World. And possibly a video for YouTube for example is made and placed there. Forum Members urge you to begin to prepare the participation of this revolutionary knowledge-dissemination. The more who know, the better!
Since not all neither the time nor the skills to put together a zinc-air battery from scratch, of course, why a commercial battery factory could be set up (free by anyone who wants to!) Eventually. Thinking for themselves, if so, to Estonia with low-wage labor and cheaper factory premises and equipment. Fast says, nor against the Swedish premium incentives, perhaps from the municipalities that places a high value and seek new jobs ... So a new Tudor is not impossible, for my part!

The figure below shows the now dried silver carbon, which smetats still and smooth (just because it happened ...). Suspect being now probably the charcoal briquettes (for grilling) is produced. First, it crumbles carbon (charcoal-ash, or mine broken mineral coal) and then presses it together in one form, probably also impregnated with kerosene or other volatile combustible ...!?

Not the world's nicest förtest (see pictures), but got a fairly test the air cathode with the new silver carbon (the prototype No. 3). Efficient Air Cathode area just over 1 cm2, but not significantly compressed powdered charcoal ...
So what were the values for which the ampere meter ................? (sorry, just trying to keep you in the span ...)
Okay ,........ initial sets of elyten gave such large values, while the relatively weak battery, digital multimeter flickered on the screen ... I was wondering if a UFO Pasera just above the house ..... -All 140 mA peak was observed from this small frightened testbit of only 1 cm2 ......! Compared with the previous prototype No. 2, almost embarrassed by their mere 5 mA/cm2 (1A maximum current per 190 cm2 of cathode area )..... Theoretically, the maximum current density may be doubled for optimum compaction (the dual kolvikten per volume), then 280 mA/cm2 ...! Nicely rounded up will be 300 mA/cm2, the same as pro cathodes are nominal (continuous)!
-Ha, Electric Fuel and Company, throw you into the wall ....!
Yes, yes, now lasted no happiness at all times. After the first immersion (my asshole drowned the whole course Luftkatoden so that no air could get at Air membrane), took it up and dried by the above-surface, now reduced this time do not spend more than the air above the membrane was aldeles elyt-surface, and got slightly different values ever since; 30 mA One minute, 70 second, etc., but believe that a reasonable average value ports of 50 mA maximum continuous current density!
-Not bad pinkat anyway!
With a successful pressing is this value to perhaps 100 mA/cm2...-Nu we talk soon battery factory in Estonia next ...!
Now it will of course be the nominal (continuous) current value (at nominal voltage drop of 0.4 V) even lower when the above figures are clean right through the short circuit ampere meter (with the following 0 V), perhaps one tenth of the peak-maximum value (according to earlier prototype) , ISF would provide about 30 mA/cm2.

Here's the day after the test, a new current track, and that first famous super-value of 140 mA did not exactly appear, the meter is and fladrar between 70 and 30 mA, as usual, just a short slightly noticeable higher current pulse aldeles in early immersion in elyten. Estimates are still present continuous maximum current density of about 50 mA/cm2, and when the previous experiment gave continuous rated current value (at 0.4 V voltage drop) was about one-seventh of the peak value, phase 7 mA/cm2. If pressing successfully double this to 14 mA is well uncertain, but hedging with 10 mA, which is now estimated for the final result, which would give only 2 A continuously from lunch box (cell receptacle) simultaneously with 1 W and 2 W power
-Cried hurray before it might actually came time .... was still more concrete tasks ahead Wednesday.
We will return then!

=================================

Maybe someone can help with a better translation ?
Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on November 01, 2009, 03:39:29 AM
Hi Hartiberlin.

I think Aluminum Air batteries have the highest energy density.

you can use powered aluminum from the local automotive store, it is used to seal radiator leaks, get the non liquid kind in a tube. for testing purposes.

Zinc Air is pretty good though, especially since pennies are so cheap to come by.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 04:17:47 AM
Yes, I am working on a Aluminium air battery for LED lighting.

Here is a video of a man Rolf Papsdorf, who really has the REAL thinking of what is life all about
and his Zinc-Air Fuel-Cell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7iiKVoIpO4

Enjoy the smiles of the kid´s faces !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 04:32:27 AM
2009 Economic Development Award Laureate
Alternative Energy for Empowerment
Laureate Country: South Africa
Project Countries: South Africa, Namibia, Malawi, Zambia
Website: www.aedc.co.za

Rolf Papsdorf of Alternative Energy Development Corporation (AEDC), developed a line of environmentally friendly, inexpensive zinc-air fuel cells that generate energy 24/7, for non grid electrification.

According to the International Energy Agency, 1.6 billion people worldwide, mostly in poor, rural communities, do not have access to electricity. The GUYUNI and Rosh Pinah community, in Africa, was using harmful materials such as paraffin and candles to illuminate dark areas.

The largest zinc air fuel cell project in the world has been implemented by AEDC in the village of Guyuni, South Africa. 300 dwellings now have lights, 27 rural people now have a disposable income through job creation, and a vegetable garden uses waste zinc oxide - created by the fuel cells during energy production - as high value fertilizer, providing food security.

See:
http://www.aedc.co.za

They also sell these nice Zinc Air fuel cells.
These are unfortunately not rechargeable and the ZINC Anode
must be exchanged.

But there are now also rechargeable Zinc Air batteries.

Have a look at:
http://www.revolttechnology.com/technology/revolt-introduction.php
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 04:35:52 AM
Here are 2 videos of the selfmade Zinc Air cell delivering over 1 amp
at around 0.8 Volts on a big motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35sJwX1jlo

http://www.youtube.com/user/moviemax66#p/a/u/1/iiDyAWYih7Q
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: d3adp00l on November 01, 2009, 07:48:24 AM
aluminum havent been found to be rechargable, so its considered a primary battery source.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hoptoad on November 01, 2009, 12:17:36 PM
Here are 2 videos of the selfmade Zinc Air cell delivering over 1 amp
at around 0.8 Volts on a big motor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35sJwX1jlo

http://www.youtube.com/user/moviemax66#p/a/u/1/iiDyAWYih7Q
I watched the videos and followed the info links, but unfortunately I only speak and read English. One of my many deficiencies!   LOL

Are there any information sources available, detailing the principle of operation, the construction, and materials used, (written in english) ??

I am intrigued and would love to know more.

Cheers
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 10:27:35 PM
For the selfmade battery with the high 1.5 amps output it seems it is easy to build: They used graphite or lamp black mixed with maganese nitrate and a teflon solution liquid as the anode and put this onto a stainless steel mesh as the electron capture and connection metal. The other electrode is just a piece of Zinc plate. As the electrolyte between the electrodes they are using KOH solution in water. It seems to help if the graphite or lampblack is doped with colloidal silver solution before. To me this seems simular to using black powder.instead of exploding a mix of blackpowder with zinc powder, which you can use in fireworks , here you oxidize with the help of the maganese nitrate the zinc and the lampblack or graphite of this mix is just your one electrode and the zinc is your other electrode... So more or less it is the same reaction like burning gunpowder or fireworks but you get all the energy out slowly as moving electrons....
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 10:35:02 PM
instead of manganese nitrate it will probably also work with pottasium nitrate which is the oxidizer component in blackpowder and is cheaper and easier to get...I have not read up for what they are using this teflon liquid but probably only to make the surface area bigger..
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2009, 10:53:08 PM
p.s. by using graphite paper for the mix you will not need anymore the stainless steel mesh so the battery gets cheaper again. Just mix graphite doped with colloidal silver and KNO3 and a acrylic binder and put this on a sheet of paper and you have the perfect conducting electrode for it. then you only need KOH solution and a zinc plate and that is all you need.. It is simular to my AL/Air battery.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2009, 02:45:17 AM
Today I experimented with trying to do a simplified Grätzel
solarcell, which did not work yet ( I don´t yet have Tindioxid for the glas
and also no iodide solution yet... will be done in a few days..)
but I saw something else.

I mixed Titandioxid with lampblack ( conductive carbon) and hibiscus tee and
a bit vinegar
and put it onto a glas disc and heated it up with
a candle so I also had lamp black from the candle and the
dried up mix as a film on the glas surface.


When I used this glas disc as one electrode and
my graphite paper ( pure lampblack with acrylic binder)
as the other electrode,
I already got about 0.3 Volts
in saltwater electrolyte( NaCL -water solution).

But there was no light sensivity from the glas disc...!

So it seems the Grätzel Solarcells really needs the  PN layer of the
glas ITO surface versus the TiO2 powder.

As I did not have any ITO layer on the glas, I don´t have a light sensitive
PN layer, but this cell anyway produces 0.3 Volts and at least half a milliamp
shortcircuit current ( only depending on the surface area..)

So maybe this is converting environmental heat to electricity ?

Who knows...
Maybe a cell from graphite-TiO2 on one electrode and
conductive SnO2 on the other electrode will work ?

I will order some SnO2 and some iodide solution now to test this all out.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hoptoad on November 02, 2009, 11:46:27 AM
instead of manganese nitrate it will probably also work with pottasium nitrate which is the oxidizer component in blackpowder and is cheaper and easier to get...I have not read up for what they are using this teflon liquid but probably only to make the surface area bigger..
Thanks for all the added info.

Cheers
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: neutrino on November 02, 2009, 03:41:21 PM
Hi hartiberlin and everyone else!
-Wery much thanks for the interest in this zinc air project!
I (or any ony else back at the "Elbil" forum) will, in due time, try to put forward mor info in english on this great forum, and explain to what level this zinc air cell has achived!

The quest and prototype work for a fully working (and rechargeable) zinc air cell is still persued on a more direct (semi-)commersial base on www.cavac.se (by me only), allthough the work lately has been stucked to miner obstacles (lacking of inspiration and support from associates, and a garage/workshop to work in).

The prototype pictures seen here
http://cavac.se/produkter.html
are the very present state of the project.

There are so many aspects of a battery that it takes much time and efforts to describe and explain every questions (all over again).
For me to manage this I would prefer to just answer straghit forward on direct simple questions, if thats all right?!

I know from later on this forum, how much knowledge and expertise there is amongst the forum member here.
It would be funn, and also probely, that many knew interesting asspects vill appear in this thread about smart solutions about how to best construct a zinc air battery.

And yes, it is very easy to do a zinc-air battery your self!

neutrino / Anders
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2009, 08:45:41 PM
Hi Anders,
many thanks for the infos.

How much does this cell cost ?

Please post more infos,
so maybe you get many orders for it ?

It would be ideal for LED lighting and other small current applications,
especially also in the 3rd world, where the people have no grid power !

Maybe also some other forum members, who can speal Swedish language
can please help to translate your pages at:

http://indux.se/Projekt%20Zink-Luftbatteri-sida8.html
and the other pages from
http://indux.se/Projekt%20Zink-Luftbatteri-sida1.html
to page 8 on.

Many thanks in advance and looking forward to a great discussion
about selfmade powerful batteries, so we we get more energy independant from
the big companies...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: MW383 on November 02, 2009, 09:05:19 PM

Read the following Zinc Air Battery patents. Should aid construction efforts for those building these things.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6461761.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6296961.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6261709.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6203940.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6197445.pdf

I can personally attest to the capabilities of this battery chemistry in regards to power aspects.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2009, 09:42:55 PM
Hi All,
as I look on the graphics of:

http://www.revolttechnology.com/res/photo/-11.battery_layers.jpg

it might be, that they put the KOH eletrolyte just into a gel based
solution, so the electrolyte is just not a liquid , but a gel.

You can get cheap gel salts, that bind water and other liquids from
diapers via Superabsorbers ( PolyAcryl-Salts)

See here:
http://www.chemieunterricht.de/dc2/tip/09_05.htm

Translate it with Google.

Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2009, 09:55:17 PM
Via the gel based electrolyte it might be easier to recharge the cell
without the KOH destroying the cell.

Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2009, 03:13:07 AM
Hi All,
today I bought Pottassium Permanganat
(in German language Kaliumpermanganat KMnO4)
and I want to mix this with lampblack (some kind of conductive graphite-carbon) and an acrylic binder
to produce one eletrode of the battery.

Do you think this will be dangerous ?
As Pottassium Permanganat (KMnO4) is a very high oxidizer and can selfignite with some
other chemicals like Glycerin (glycerol)
how should I prepare this without blowing myself up ?

Maybe it is best first to solute the Pottassium Permanganat into water and then
add wet lampblack and then add the acrylic binder ?

Will this get hot ?

And then let it dry ?
Could I heat it up a bit to get it faster to dry or will this explode then ?

I want to use this as one electrode and use KOH or K2CO3 in water as the electrolyte
and Alufoil or a Zincplate as the other electrode for this airbattery...

So will I blow myself up, if I will try this or what other precautions should I take ?
I don´t want to get my fingers ripped away from an explosion.

I know how dangerours for instance Acetone-peroxid is,
with which I played in my younger years and that exploded
already by hit with a hammer !


Please let me know.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on November 03, 2009, 04:16:35 AM
one drop at a time, test it for volatility.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2009, 04:47:26 PM
one drop at a time, test it for volatility.

Well, with nitroglycerin, one drop could be too much !  ;D

Deciding soon, if I have the balls to do it, no risk, no fun ??? ;D

Any other advices ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2009, 04:54:47 PM
Here are 3 pictures from:

http://cavac.se/produkter.html

It seems he is using a pretty expensive air electrode from:
http://www.electric-fuel.com/airelectrode/E4spec.html

This is why the cell is pretty expensive..

He is selling the cell for around 1000 SEK, which is about 100 Euros
or about 150 US$.

The Datasheets says:

Zinc-Air Cell (monoblock), rechargeable

Cell Chemistry: Zink/KOH/O2

Cellvoltage open circuit (uncompressed): 1.4 V
Cellvoltage (with  load, 0.3 A/cm2) 1.0 V

Current (continuous): 100 A (0.3 A/cm2)

Current  (1 minutes, max): 120 A (0.35 A/cm2)

Amp-hours (C/10): 900 Ah

Energy Density (30 A / 100 A): 580 / 450 Wh / kg

Energitthet (30 A / 100 A): 1500 / 1200 Wh / L

Power Density: 50 W / kg

Effekttthet: 135 W / L

Charge Cycles (0.1 C, 100% DOD):> 100
Cathode-area: 340 cm2, Make Electric Fuel (*)

dimensions (mm) (length x width x height): 205 mm x 30 mm x 120 mm

Weight: 2,0 kg


He said on the swedish forum:

The price of 1000 SEK is 70% dependent on the price of air cathode, especially in this prototype cell in which a ready and very expensive version of the Electric Fuel (EF) is used. In the future own cells meaning even air cathode was self-made, with more of a halved the price for it. Customer price at an average volume of production would reach around 1000 SEK per kWh, including profit margins and so on.

This prototype cell, 900 Ah, where 0.824 Ah,  is obtained from each gram of zinc.

Cell voltage is 1.4 V and 1.0 V, no load at nominal load of 100 A, max 120 A.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2009, 05:03:01 PM
He just replied on the Swedish forum and said that for this cell at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35sJwX1jlo

he used the following setup:

Recipes / ingredients in simple prototype cells on youtube is for the air cathode:

48% activated carbon with 2% absorbed colloidal silver
and
50% Teflon, was pressed in a fine mesh stainless steel mesh (1 mm mesh, 0.2 mm wire thickness)
as one electrode.

The Electrolyte was
a 40% KOH solution electrolyte (60% water, 40% KOH).

A separator made of glass wool, solid zinc plate (1 mm thick) lying on a similar steel nets used in air-cathode.

So this is very easy to make and has huge current output capabilities.

The question still is, what kind of Teflon fluid or beads were used ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on November 03, 2009, 05:32:43 PM
Well, with nitroglycerin, one drop could be too much !  ;D

Deciding soon, if I have the balls to do it, no risk, no fun ??? ;D

Any other advices ?

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan.

mostly protective equipment.

1. heavy duty welding gloves.
2. heavy duty chemical gloves
note; insert welding gloves inside chemical gloves.
they are bulky but give added protection from losing fingers.

3. heavy duty Protective mask or face plate.
4. some form of highly anchored blast face to redirect compression force away from your body.

5. see if there is any literature already present for such a chemical mix and the proper way to handle it.

always keep thinking about what you are about to do before you do it as far as chemistry is involved.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2009, 05:50:10 PM
Well, these are things I don´t have availabe here at the moment...
Hmm, I am thinking  :

I already mixed KMNO4 with carbon powder in my younger years,
so there is not much risk...

But I don´t know, what will happen, if I add the acrylic binder,
which is a wet white colored acrylic binder used to make acrylic paint colors..

Can the acryl in it react violently with the KMNO4 ?

Will it help, when all is in a wet watersolution state ?

As the acrylic binder binds the water and gets
hard, maybe this will generate too much heat
with the KMNO4 and ignite it ?

Is here any advanced chemist reading this and can give me a few tips ?

Will it react maybe violently when the graphite-acrylic binder-KMNO4 mix
will be put into the KOH-water solution ?

What reactions could start then ?

Please help.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on November 04, 2009, 12:56:29 AM
Hi Stefan.

there are some chemical formula similar to what you are trying to achieve but the is no details on volatility.

Since KMNO4 is a strong oxidizer there is a chance that when the Acrylic starts to set it might self ignite due to the oxidized accelerating of the chemical reaction.

I have never made the formula you are trying to achieve so I would make a very small sample first, test it for impact ignition, self ignition, and fire ignition, spark ignition. just to play it safe.

KMNO4 and sugar will self ignite if handled improperly. KMNO4 & KOH & Sugar will self ignite whether handled or not. be very careful.

try to keep the solution well ventilated incase there is a gas reaction on top of any other reaction present.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2009, 03:16:40 AM


KMNO4 and sugar will self ignite if handled improperly.
KMNO4 & KOH & Sugar will self ignite whether handled or not. be very careful.


Many thanks.

These were the tips I was looking for...
So I will only add small amounts of a
weak KMNO4 -water solution to the graphite-acrylic binder mix
and
also use a low concentration KOH solution as the electrolyte and will
do it all on my balcony first with small quantities only...
Many thanks for these valuable tips !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: markdansie on November 04, 2009, 08:41:40 AM
@Stefan
I hope this is of some help to you ,I copied and pasted some companies that are commercialising Zinc Air bateries. I know a few universities and large corporations are also working on this. I copied this from the Freenegy website where I suggest you go and have a look.
Kind Regards
Mark




Zinc Air
ReVolt Technology - Rechargeable Zinc-air batteries have more than twice as much energy as conventional Li-ion batteries, they cost less to manufacture, are safer to use, and are environmentally friendly. They are suitable for consumer electronics - mobile phones, laptop computers, digital cameras, etc.
New rechargeable zinc-air batteries coming soon - A new breed of rechargeable zinc-air batteries by Swiss company, ReVolt, is soon to be available, and may replace lithium-ion batteries in cell phones, laptops and other consumer items. Lithium-ion batteries store only a third of the energy and cost around twice as much as the new batteries. (PhysOrg; Oct. 29, 2009)

PAC Zinc Air Fuel Cells - Power Air Corporation's Zinc Air Fuel Cell offers an alternative to batteries, generators, and hydrogen fuel cells, producing zero emission energy for portable, stationary, light mobility, and transportation applications. ZAFC technology is low cost with all the advantages of batteries and engines, without the disadvantages. (The Energy Blog; May 2, 2007)

eVionyx - development of an inexpensive, metal-air, Revolutionary Power Cell (RPCâ„¢) technology capable of meeting all of the requirements of the ideal energy source.
Fuel Cells > Powerzinc Electric - Dynamic Quick-refuel Fuel Cells (DQFC) are high power, high energy, long-lasting, low cost and environment-friendly zinc-air fuel cells for electric vehicles. The company is developing an all-Electric passenger car with a range of 400 km and a fast refuel service platform.



Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: markdansie on November 04, 2009, 09:19:06 AM
just a corection on my last post, I ,eant freeenrgynews web site
also another one to look at


http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1037149_revolutionary-zinc-air-battery-developed-for-ev-use

Kind Regards
Mark










Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: nicox2x2 on November 05, 2009, 05:57:32 PM
Hi. I have registered in this forum looking for a independet prize for a real world-scale new idea for solvering the world energy demand...I have one of such kind of ideas, can you tell me how can I apply for the prize, please?. Thank you so much. Dr. Luis Juanicó, argentinean researcher in renewables.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 05, 2009, 07:13:01 PM
Hi. I have registered in this forum looking for a independet prize for a real world-scale new idea for solvering the world energy demand...I have one of such kind of ideas, can you tell me how can I apply for the prize, please?. Thank you so much. Dr. Luis Juanicó, argentinean researcher in renewables.

Hi,
have a look at this:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5707.0

Do you have a selfrunning system that needs no batteries and puts out more than 1 Watts ?

Thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 07, 2009, 07:21:28 PM
Here are a few answers from user Anders from the Sweish forum,
which he emailed me and said, it is okay to post it here:

Hi Stefan!

We got the Teflon for free from Dupont in Norway, they was thrilled to support such a potentialy interesting project, and 1 L cost only 250 SEK + VAT.
I belive firmly it would be best for all if you could order directly from an office in Germany, our supply is limited for own use.
Also notice that Dupont for commersial use requires a license agreement, therfore state the nature of the project beeing small scale testing of batteries.
If You still will not succeed getting any deliveries (from Germany), perhaps try with the office in Norway, ask for John Jansen at phone +47 38084100 (perhaps old number?), or try Dupont in Sweden, phone: +46 8591194 39.

Notice that perhaps (?) the number 30B my have been changed to TE 3885 ?!
""Teflon® PTFE 30B fluoropolymer resin is a negatively
charged, hydrophobic colloid, containing
approximately 60% (by total weight) of 0.05 to
0.5 mikrometer polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) resin
particles suspended in water. Seen as a milky white
liquid, it also contains approximately 8% (by weight
of PTFE) of a nonionic wetting agent and stabilizer.""

http://www2.dupont.com/Teflon_Industrial/en_US/products/product_by_name/teflon_ptfe/aqueous.html

http://www2.dupont.com/Teflon_Industrial/en_US/assets/downloads/k15764.pdf

Thanks for the graphite paper offer, but no thanks, pretty much everything is best with the stainless mesh, the price is almost nothing and the cathode becomes ridgit/more solid and very good conducting electricity. I do reecomend You using it!
http://www.sintab.se/

Before I forget it, for the cathode to work over one our it needs a "cellguard" film atatched to the wet electolyte side. I have not yet testing this myself since I have bought commersial cathodes from Electric Fuel (to speed up the prototype making). Probably later I wiil do a test with also a cellguard attatched to the cathode.

http://www.celgard.com/default.asp
http://www.celgard.com/products/specialty-membranes.asp

Sorry if I cant keep up with all Your questions for the moment, belive it or not, but all in a sudden the acitivity around this zinc air battery project just explodes...! So much to write and study that I wish I had two brains....

My problems besides trying to save the world (...) with good EV batteries, is that I so many other ideas I would like to experiment with, a favorite is a solar cell made with an ink jet writer onto transperant plastic film (for OH), and spray different layers of nano coal and nano copper oxide, also have solutions on wind turbines and, well You guessed right -a free energy device (a magnet generator). But please, I am so limited in strenght and resources I hardly keep up whith this zinc project!

Regards
Anders
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on November 07, 2009, 07:22:54 PM

> Hi Anders,
> many thanks for these infos.
>
> Could this be posted in my forum or is this info
> just for me ?
>
> What is the Teflon exactly doing ?
>
> Does it just only support more oxygen from
> the air going into the graphite (charcoal )
>
> What happens, if you don´t use the Teflon ?
> Is the current then much lower ?
> How much lower ?
>
> Also what about the Maganese Nitrate ?
> Is this still used in your cell ?
>
> I will be soon trying KMNO4, and I hope I don´t blow myself up.
>
> Well, the graphite paper is very easy to make with a cheap
> acrylic binder and this graphite electrode then conducts
> very well, so no stainless steel needed, which saves money...
>
> Wherefore do you need this cellgard ?
> Is this there for the recharge capabilities
> or can´t you just otherwise use a gel like
> superabsorbers (polyacryl salts)to keep the KOH solution inside such a gel ?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Regards, Stefan.


Hi Stefan!
Please feel free to copy mail corespondence (my spelling sucks though...)!

The Teflon permits oxygen to enter the micro pourus space in the (well packed) activated carbon, through high surface tention repelling the liquid electrolyte (KOH/H2O) and creating path ways for the air to travel inside the cathode, otherwise only the outer atom layer of the cathode would be active, followed by a very low current density (mA).
There are other concepts dealing with the air flow problem; some use a lose (fluffy and space consuming) carbon powder without any Teflon, but this cause a very high inner resistance with a high voltage drop, which also make them power weak.
See:
http://elbil.forum24.se/elbil-about844-0-asc-80.html
http://www.tedilo.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=zink&x=0&y=0

Notice that when making a cathode one must use fine activated carbon powder, not just ordinary coal (from the woodstove...). What makes catalysies to work is the plentyfull very tiny pits on the carbon surface -its all about having a huge amount of active surface for the oxygen to interact and become into OH with the electrolyte (actualy the water). It will work with ordinary coal powder as well, but it will give of a very low current.
And the adsorbed Silver or MnNO3 are mainly there to raise the cell voltage. It works fine also without the adsorbed "voltage doping" substance (Silver), but the cell voltage will be lower when discharging/draining current.
The cell seen on Youtube have Silver in it, wich give a slight higher voltage than MnNO3.
It is also more easy to do the adsorbing process with Silver, since the MnNO3 requires a baking process during several days...

The cellguard fabric prevents poisening zincate ions (negative charged zinc) to enter the cathode which will reduce the catalytic activity and thereby stop the cell function. The zincate ions are temporary semi product in the process of forming ZnO from Zn.
So a cell without cellguard will function only a rellative short while (hours).
I gues it would be possible to fix this zincate problem with also other technics, like a internal galvanic polarity charge /tention/voltage that prevents the negative ions from travling from the zinc anode to the cathode...(?)
I gues a gel would also (at least partly) stop the zincate ions, it needs to be tested!

And by the way, the electrolyte are not consumed during discharge, it has the same overall concentration all the time. In the cathode oxygen are binded with hydrogen to OH (negative charged), and releases the hydrogen back to the electrolyte at the zinc anode where zinc becomes into ZnO. -A closed lope.

Regards
Anders
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: jadaro2600 on November 07, 2009, 09:12:10 PM
Due to a lack of multilingual abilities, as / would it be possible to get an English DIY how-to for this type of cell?  Can someone post some instructions as well as an good explanation of what is going on in the same instructions.

I've read the basic information, however, there are still undetermined factors, I think.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: neutrino on November 10, 2009, 04:27:46 PM
How to make an air cathode without Teflon. -a sintered electrode using a slight over air pressure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_diffusion_electrode

Wikipedia about zinc and aluminium air battery. Notice that zinc gives of 2 electrones for every used zinc atom, while the aluminium atom gives of 3 , and at the same time beeing more then twice as light, giving theoretical 6000 Wh/kg...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc-air_battery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_battery
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: samawati on November 16, 2009, 05:52:00 PM
How would this technology be used in space where there is no air?
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: gmeast on November 20, 2009, 06:12:38 AM
Before the user Anders wrote in Swedish:

I väntan på den stora pressardagen görs ett förtest med endast en liten testbit av strömnät och Silverkolpulver manuellt muskel-pressat med tesked över 1 cm2 yta, Nedsänkt i en liten rostfri bytta med Zink i botten och Luftkatoden ovanför mäts den lilla ström som ev kommer från så liten yta. Med alla (ca 5) gram Silver som lösts upp i Silvergeneratorn och förhoppningsvis/troligtvis adsorberats i kolpulvret är det inte helt orimliga värdet 50 mA kontinuerligt (nominellt) tänkbart, kanske tom 100 mA !
Detta innebär i så fall för den färdiga prototypcellen på ca 200 cm2 att minimum 10 A kommer ur den lilla lunchlådan (cellkärlet) med samtidigt 1 V, vilket blir 10 W effekt, ungefär vad en baklampa drar..! I bästa fall 20 A, och 20 W..!
=================================

Maybe someone can help with a better translation ?
Many thanks in advance.

Hi all,

This Zinc-Air Battery, or better, Zinc-Air Fuel Cell is exciting technology and it is not new.  Ten years ago several European concerns and if my recall is good some Isreali innovators were proposing large scale infrastructure to integrate this into a practical way to power electric automobiles.  The power density is about the same as gasoline regarding volumetric efficiency (size and such).

In a nut shell and according to a great Wiki reference:

In one type of zinc-air fuel cell, zinc fuel is replenished and zinc oxide waste is removed ... continuously by pushing zinc electrolyte paste or pellets into an anode chamber. Waste zinc oxide is pumped into a waste tank inside the fuel tank and fresh zinc paste or pellets are taken from the fuel tank. The zinc oxide waste is pumped out at a refueling station and sent to a recycling plant.

But, the most practical approach that I had seen was to have a zinc-air fuel cell that 'unplugs' from the car's undercarriage and is replaced by a fresh 'plug-in' and away you go.  The spent fuel cell is hauled off (with others) to be 'recharged' at a power plant during off-peak hours or by solar, wind, hydro.  Certain of the zinc-air fuel cells have been designed such that only electricity is needed to reverse the electrochemical process that turned the Zinc from zinc metal to zinc oxide.  The recharging process in essence 're-plates' the zinc metal back onto the anodes and very little. if any, toxic by-products or waste is generated.

I've been waiting for this technology to mature for about a decade.  I lost all references to this in a computer crash an never rebuilt my database.  If someone can provide some links to the latter above ... great!

Greg
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: FatChance!!! on December 14, 2009, 10:42:30 AM
How would this technology be used in space where there is no air?

Compressed Air Tubes....as when scuba diving.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on January 18, 2010, 01:53:26 AM
Hi I have been doing some research on this topic after i saw the vid on A. I was amazed at the current this type a battery could deliver. The basic principle of this type of fuel cell is quite simple, unfortunately the air electrode is the key to a large amount of current. without this it is just an interesting science project. Surface area is the key to the elctrode also it must be very conductive. I am going to start fabricating an electrode as soon as I can find the proper materials. The filter material should be fairly easy to obtain. I feel that it is very important because if you are going to take the time to build these electrodes, lack of filtering would destroy them. The only hard to get material is the teflon binder. I am confident that other binders can be used but from what I have found is that a porous binder must be used. My goal is to build a cell capable of powering an
EV.           

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6291090/description.html
I have Found some very detailed info on how to make this electrode. This should answer all of your questions.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on January 18, 2010, 04:57:12 AM
Here is another approach that may show promise.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6444609.html

more A!
http://www.aist.go.jp/aist_e/latest_research/2009/20090727/20090727.html
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on January 18, 2010, 05:26:32 AM
Binder
http://www.arkema-inc.com/kynar/page.cfm?pag=1156   

Suitable binders include poly[2,2'-(m-phenylene)-5,5'-bibenzimidazole] (PBI), poly[2,5-benzimidazole] (ABPBI), polybenzoxazole (PBO), polybenzothiazole (PBT), and combinations thereof.

phenolic resins, epoxy resins, furan resins, xylenol-formaldehyde resins, urea resins, melamine resins, aniline-formaldehyde resins, Friedel-Crafts resins,unsaturated-polyester resins, polyvinylalcohol, polyacrylic resin, polyvinylbutyral, polyvinylpyrrolidone, polyvinylacetate, polystyrene, polyisobutylene, and others

unsaturated-polyester resins. this might be worth a try. Cheap and easy to find. Boat hull repair. walmart........

Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: jadaro2600 on January 18, 2010, 09:07:53 PM
Yikes, this thread got technical real fast:  here is a link to a portable zinc-air battery for charging mobile devices.  http://www.instant-power.com/instantpower.pdf (http://www.instant-power.com/instantpower.pdf) ..it supplies 3300mAh.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on January 24, 2010, 04:48:02 AM
Here is a cheap homemade air electrode. http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-Carbon-Electrode/



Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on January 25, 2010, 11:35:04 AM
 can buy the teflon here!

http://fuelcellearth.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=16&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

It doesn't matter what you use to create power. It will always be expensive! Dupont will take the place of the oil companies!!!!!
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 18, 2010, 02:00:18 AM
No,
you can do it very cheaply now.

When I will put the graphite-acrylic mix onto a
stainless steel mesh I will get into the Ohm range for the
inner electrode resistance and not more in the
KiloOhm range.

This will also get me a cell simular to the Zinc air cell
but just with alufoil.

Have a look at the latest videos:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8782

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on February 18, 2010, 02:52:57 AM
Stefan, that piece of paper seems to be approximately 10 cm2 and you are getting 2.1 ma. the air electrode at the same size would produce 3 amps. I think the acrylic binder has to much resistance and will only work when submerged in the electrolyte. When submerged, there is a limited supply of O2 therefore current will always be low. I also tried the acrylic binder as an air electrode binder and found that it would not work. Try using a piece of copper the same size as your paper and the current will be around 500 ma.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: hartiberlin on February 20, 2010, 02:22:58 AM
Okay, I will try the copper elektrode,
but if it will be consumed, that is not my goal.
The goal was to have just only one electrode that will
be consumed: the alufoil and the other electrode should NOT be consumed,
the graphite electrode.

For more info go to this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8782.msg229249#msg229249
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: derwood on February 20, 2010, 04:54:43 AM
Also, I have had better results with bleach electrolyte when using aluminum. The copper will not be consumed.
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: luishan on April 09, 2010, 08:50:18 PM
Check it Out.
The sample power of the Zinc Air Battery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPXhNnMkpe8
Title: Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
Post by: Tenko on June 30, 2010, 06:29:26 AM
Wiki says that zinc-air batteries give off energy as the zinc oxidizes. And that they stop giving energy once the zinc is fully oxidized.