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Author Topic: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !  (Read 100968 times)

Offline MW383

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 09:05:19 PM »

Read the following Zinc Air Battery patents. Should aid construction efforts for those building these things.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6461761.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6296961.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6261709.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6203940.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6197445.pdf

I can personally attest to the capabilities of this battery chemistry in regards to power aspects.

Cheers!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2009, 09:42:55 PM »
Hi All,
as I look on the graphics of:

http://www.revolttechnology.com/res/photo/-11.battery_layers.jpg

it might be, that they put the KOH eletrolyte just into a gel based
solution, so the electrolyte is just not a liquid , but a gel.

You can get cheap gel salts, that bind water and other liquids from
diapers via Superabsorbers ( PolyAcryl-Salts)

See here:
http://www.chemieunterricht.de/dc2/tip/09_05.htm

Translate it with Google.


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 09:55:17 PM »
Via the gel based electrolyte it might be easier to recharge the cell
without the KOH destroying the cell.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 09:55:17 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2009, 03:13:07 AM »
Hi All,
today I bought Pottassium Permanganat
(in German language Kaliumpermanganat KMnO4)
and I want to mix this with lampblack (some kind of conductive graphite-carbon) and an acrylic binder
to produce one eletrode of the battery.

Do you think this will be dangerous ?
As Pottassium Permanganat (KMnO4) is a very high oxidizer and can selfignite with some
other chemicals like Glycerin (glycerol)
how should I prepare this without blowing myself up ?

Maybe it is best first to solute the Pottassium Permanganat into water and then
add wet lampblack and then add the acrylic binder ?

Will this get hot ?

And then let it dry ?
Could I heat it up a bit to get it faster to dry or will this explode then ?

I want to use this as one electrode and use KOH or K2CO3 in water as the electrolyte
and Alufoil or a Zincplate as the other electrode for this airbattery...

So will I blow myself up, if I will try this or what other precautions should I take ?
I don´t want to get my fingers ripped away from an explosion.

I know how dangerours for instance Acetone-peroxid is,
with which I played in my younger years and that exploded
already by hit with a hammer !


Please let me know.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2009, 04:16:35 AM »
one drop at a time, test it for volatility.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2009, 04:16:35 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2009, 04:47:26 PM »
one drop at a time, test it for volatility.

Well, with nitroglycerin, one drop could be too much !  ;D

Deciding soon, if I have the balls to do it, no risk, no fun ??? ;D

Any other advices ?

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2009, 04:54:47 PM »
Here are 3 pictures from:

http://cavac.se/produkter.html

It seems he is using a pretty expensive air electrode from:
http://www.electric-fuel.com/airelectrode/E4spec.html

This is why the cell is pretty expensive..

He is selling the cell for around 1000 SEK, which is about 100 Euros
or about 150 US$.

The Datasheets says:

Zinc-Air Cell (monoblock), rechargeable

Cell Chemistry: Zink/KOH/O2

Cellvoltage open circuit (uncompressed): 1.4 V
Cellvoltage (with  load, 0.3 A/cm2) 1.0 V

Current (continuous): 100 A (0.3 A/cm2)

Current  (1 minutes, max): 120 A (0.35 A/cm2)

Amp-hours (C/10): 900 Ah

Energy Density (30 A / 100 A): 580 / 450 Wh / kg

Energitthet (30 A / 100 A): 1500 / 1200 Wh / L

Power Density: 50 W / kg

Effekttthet: 135 W / L

Charge Cycles (0.1 C, 100% DOD):> 100
Cathode-area: 340 cm2, Make Electric Fuel (*)

dimensions (mm) (length x width x height): 205 mm x 30 mm x 120 mm

Weight: 2,0 kg


He said on the swedish forum:

The price of 1000 SEK is 70% dependent on the price of air cathode, especially in this prototype cell in which a ready and very expensive version of the Electric Fuel (EF) is used. In the future own cells meaning even air cathode was self-made, with more of a halved the price for it. Customer price at an average volume of production would reach around 1000 SEK per kWh, including profit margins and so on.

This prototype cell, 900 Ah, where 0.824 Ah,  is obtained from each gram of zinc.

Cell voltage is 1.4 V and 1.0 V, no load at nominal load of 100 A, max 120 A.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2009, 04:54:47 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2009, 05:03:01 PM »
He just replied on the Swedish forum and said that for this cell at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35sJwX1jlo

he used the following setup:

Recipes / ingredients in simple prototype cells on youtube is for the air cathode:

48% activated carbon with 2% absorbed colloidal silver
and
50% Teflon, was pressed in a fine mesh stainless steel mesh (1 mm mesh, 0.2 mm wire thickness)
as one electrode.

The Electrolyte was
a 40% KOH solution electrolyte (60% water, 40% KOH).

A separator made of glass wool, solid zinc plate (1 mm thick) lying on a similar steel nets used in air-cathode.

So this is very easy to make and has huge current output capabilities.

The question still is, what kind of Teflon fluid or beads were used ?

Regards, Stefan.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2009, 05:32:43 PM »
Well, with nitroglycerin, one drop could be too much !  ;D

Deciding soon, if I have the balls to do it, no risk, no fun ??? ;D

Any other advices ?

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan.

mostly protective equipment.

1. heavy duty welding gloves.
2. heavy duty chemical gloves
note; insert welding gloves inside chemical gloves.
they are bulky but give added protection from losing fingers.

3. heavy duty Protective mask or face plate.
4. some form of highly anchored blast face to redirect compression force away from your body.

5. see if there is any literature already present for such a chemical mix and the proper way to handle it.

always keep thinking about what you are about to do before you do it as far as chemistry is involved.

Jerry ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2009, 05:32:43 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2009, 05:50:10 PM »
Well, these are things I don´t have availabe here at the moment...
Hmm, I am thinking  :

I already mixed KMNO4 with carbon powder in my younger years,
so there is not much risk...

But I don´t know, what will happen, if I add the acrylic binder,
which is a wet white colored acrylic binder used to make acrylic paint colors..

Can the acryl in it react violently with the KMNO4 ?

Will it help, when all is in a wet watersolution state ?

As the acrylic binder binds the water and gets
hard, maybe this will generate too much heat
with the KMNO4 and ignite it ?

Is here any advanced chemist reading this and can give me a few tips ?

Will it react maybe violently when the graphite-acrylic binder-KMNO4 mix
will be put into the KOH-water solution ?

What reactions could start then ?

Please help.

Many thanks.

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2009, 12:56:29 AM »
Hi Stefan.

there are some chemical formula similar to what you are trying to achieve but the is no details on volatility.

Since KMNO4 is a strong oxidizer there is a chance that when the Acrylic starts to set it might self ignite due to the oxidized accelerating of the chemical reaction.

I have never made the formula you are trying to achieve so I would make a very small sample first, test it for impact ignition, self ignition, and fire ignition, spark ignition. just to play it safe.

KMNO4 and sugar will self ignite if handled improperly. KMNO4 & KOH & Sugar will self ignite whether handled or not. be very careful.

try to keep the solution well ventilated incase there is a gas reaction on top of any other reaction present.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2009, 12:56:29 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2009, 03:16:40 AM »


KMNO4 and sugar will self ignite if handled improperly.
KMNO4 & KOH & Sugar will self ignite whether handled or not. be very careful.


Many thanks.

These were the tips I was looking for...
So I will only add small amounts of a
weak KMNO4 -water solution to the graphite-acrylic binder mix
and
also use a low concentration KOH solution as the electrolyte and will
do it all on my balcony first with small quantities only...
Many thanks for these valuable tips !

Regards, Stefan.

Offline markdansie

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2009, 08:41:40 AM »
@Stefan
I hope this is of some help to you ,I copied and pasted some companies that are commercialising Zinc Air bateries. I know a few universities and large corporations are also working on this. I copied this from the Freenegy website where I suggest you go and have a look.
Kind Regards
Mark




Zinc Air
ReVolt Technology - Rechargeable Zinc-air batteries have more than twice as much energy as conventional Li-ion batteries, they cost less to manufacture, are safer to use, and are environmentally friendly. They are suitable for consumer electronics - mobile phones, laptop computers, digital cameras, etc.
New rechargeable zinc-air batteries coming soon - A new breed of rechargeable zinc-air batteries by Swiss company, ReVolt, is soon to be available, and may replace lithium-ion batteries in cell phones, laptops and other consumer items. Lithium-ion batteries store only a third of the energy and cost around twice as much as the new batteries. (PhysOrg; Oct. 29, 2009)

PAC Zinc Air Fuel Cells - Power Air Corporation's Zinc Air Fuel Cell offers an alternative to batteries, generators, and hydrogen fuel cells, producing zero emission energy for portable, stationary, light mobility, and transportation applications. ZAFC technology is low cost with all the advantages of batteries and engines, without the disadvantages. (The Energy Blog; May 2, 2007)

eVionyx - development of an inexpensive, metal-air, Revolutionary Power Cell (RPCâ„¢) technology capable of meeting all of the requirements of the ideal energy source.
Fuel Cells > Powerzinc Electric - Dynamic Quick-refuel Fuel Cells (DQFC) are high power, high energy, long-lasting, low cost and environment-friendly zinc-air fuel cells for electric vehicles. The company is developing an all-Electric passenger car with a range of 400 km and a fast refuel service platform.




Offline markdansie

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2009, 09:19:06 AM »
just a corection on my last post, I ,eant freeenrgynews web site
also another one to look at


http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1037149_revolutionary-zinc-air-battery-developed-for-ev-use

Kind Regards
Mark











Offline nicox2x2

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Re: Getting amps from small selfmade DIY Zinc Air cells, amazing !
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2009, 05:57:32 PM »
Hi. I have registered in this forum looking for a independet prize for a real world-scale new idea for solvering the world energy demand...I have one of such kind of ideas, can you tell me how can I apply for the prize, please?. Thank you so much. Dr. Luis Juanicó, argentinean researcher in renewables.

 

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