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Author Topic: Gravity Engine Variation  (Read 7227 times)

Offline el-tigre

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Gravity Engine Variation
« on: December 24, 2009, 04:19:13 AM »
Greetings and Felicitations...

I have read much on gravity wheels here and elsewhere and I conclude the greatest challenge is a simple effective lifting mechanism to transfer mass from the bottom to the top of the wheel.   I believe I have a solution but I have no time to build it so I ask some of you esteemed experimenters to give it a try on my behalf or point out any obvious failures before we start. Please let me know if this has already been tried.

A bad animation is attached to give you the general schematic.
Hopefully you can see it. The blue circles are weights fixed to red coloured rods that go from one edge of the wheel to the other via a bend around the center axle. 

The green line is a simple string or belt strung between the two green external pulleys for tension. As the wheel rotates, the string snags a protrusion on the connecting rods and moves the mass to the top side and suspends it there independently of the wheel.  This lifting system is very light and low friction and moves along with the wheel.  Timing can be varied by moving the external pulleys.

Obviously, many of these wheels could be combined on a single shaft to form a powerful engine. Wheel size and weights could also be varied to maximum effect.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

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Gravity Engine Variation
« on: December 24, 2009, 04:19:13 AM »

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 03:30:12 PM »
el-tigre

 You have a good start to this quest but I will tell you why this one wont work. First off you have a high friction factor and as well the arm a soon as it connects to the belt/cable it changes the center of gravity of the wheel. This is not a new approach but a good one to start to understand what we face with gravity wheels.

 Builds and observations are the best way to understand the negatives what we face. I quit counting months ago of how many designs I have drawn and at that time is was over 600. So be patient and keep your pencil handy.

Alan

Offline el-tigre

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 04:52:07 PM »
Thanks for the comments Alan,    My limited experiments with this design have shown that friction is not too severe, especially if you make the connecting rods from plastic and flatten them at the intersection.  As for the string lifter, I have not built it but the idea is that it moves on low friction ball bearing pulleys at the same rate as the main wheel so there is very little friction there.

As for changing the center of gravity of the wheel, isn't that the goal? To unbalance the wheel in order to generate motion?  Forgive my novice misunderstanding of a fundamental principal. My experiments with wire push rods on a bicycle wheel rim seem to work well to generate unbalanced motion??

All comments are appreciated, thanks.   (new animation attached may show it better)

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 04:52:07 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 05:26:52 PM »
el-tigre

OK Look at it a bit closer. Each of the rods to slide are a friction and the weight of the rods being lifted cause friction. As for the change of center center of gravity of the wheel. It is the wrong direction for the over balance. You are getting a effect that it is now at the 4:30 to 5:00 mark strait down. This cuts off around 20 to 25% of the descending side of the wheel. So it becomes like putting on the breaks. Now of course the next logical thing to do is to widen your pulleys so the weights don't come in contact at the bottom, but too where it does not come into contact until around the 7:30 mark. This will be the best improvement but still may not be able to overcome the friction you will encounter.

 I hope I made it clearer for you on how I see it.

Alan
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 05:48:01 PM by AB Hammer »

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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 05:44:24 PM »
Here is a drawing of what I am saying.

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 05:44:24 PM »
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Offline el-tigre

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 06:11:32 PM »
Yes Alan,   

I see what you mean.  The nice part of this design is that repositioning the external pulleys provides a fast and easy way to vary the lift timing etc.   Another pulley or 2 can be added as well to increase the effect at the bottom of the system but adds drag.

Now if we put a few hundred wheels along the same axle each with slightly offset timing, considerable (hundreds) of unbalanced weights can be overhung the axle on the same radius for a net cumulative torque sufficient to drive past any dead spots?  Should be a nice smooth operation on a 600 cylinder engine no?

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 06:14:03 PM »
the problem is, if the tension on belt is strong enough to hold the weight inwards then it is strong enough to hold the weight still. this is actually what fools a lot of people. Conservative forces are difficult for some people to understand.

simply trying to use the conservative force as it is won't work but there are possibly two ways around the conservative force, one is to 'interrupt' the conservative force and two is to 'add energy' to the conservative force for it to do work.

both Gravity and Magnetism are conservative forces.

Jerry 8)

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 06:14:03 PM »
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Offline el-tigre

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 06:28:07 PM »
the problem is, if the tension on belt is strong enough to hold the weight inwards then it is strong enough to hold the weight still. this is actually what fools a lot of people. Conservative forces are difficult for some people to understand.

I agree in the designs that use ramps and fixed points to try and push or slide the mass upwards against gravity.  The hypothesis in this design is that the "tension" or upward force actually moves in unison with the wheel so the friction is significantly reduced. Additionally, the mass of the repositioned weights is supported by the external pulley axles on bearings which should increase the unbalanced main wheel force because the extended mass is not required to support the retracted mass directly. The retracted mass is literally hanging by a thread.  ;D

Offline onthecuttingedge2005

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 06:44:13 PM »
the problem is that the weight's pulley will not want to climb against the tension of the belt at the bottom, Gravitational falling objects only likes the path of least resistance. which is the same with all conservative forces.

I mean you could try it anyways, the conclusion will be that I was right.

like I said, you either have to 'interrupt' the conservative force and or 'add energy' to the conservative force for it to do work.

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Re: Gravity Engine Variation
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 06:44:13 PM »
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