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New Battery systems => Saltwater cells => Topic started by: hartiberlin on April 06, 2005, 08:33:51 AM

Title: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: hartiberlin on April 06, 2005, 08:33:51 AM
Hi All,
here is Bruce?s second cell I got from him already a bit
"hacked" and reassembled with fresh wetted graphite
powder inside.
This cell now gives open circuit about 1 Volt and
under 50 Ohm load also begins at around 0.65 Volt and then slowly
goes down to around 0.5 Volts.
This is still much bigger in size as the TicTac box,
so the TicTac box cell is better in power/weight
relationship !
It seems to be much better to use graphite plates instead of
graphite cylinders.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: Bruce A. Perreault on April 06, 2005, 04:00:49 PM
Stefan,

This is not a fair comparision. My cells generate 1.8 volts and hold a load. As you have witnessed, the only reason why my cells that I sent to you are not generating the current that is expected of them is because they dried out sitting in customs and more importantly the anode contact got corroded because I used the wrong contact alloy. This problem is now fixed in my new design. So please sit tight.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Bruce P.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: hartiberlin on April 06, 2005, 10:37:55 PM
Hi Bruce,
well they might generate 1.8 Volts at the beginning of their life,
but not later, when the first chemical reaction is used up.

I don?t think, that they will generate all the time 1.8 Volt
opencircuit.
You probably applied some NH3 ammonia to the graphite powder
and as this was used up then the voltage just comes down
to its normal voltage of 1 to 1.3 Volts open circuit.

As I just refreshed the cell only by putting in fresh saltwater,
it did not go up again to 1.8 Volts.
So do you say, when it has dried out once, it will never reach the 1.8 Volts
again ?
I also rmoved the corroded stainless-steel clamp and connected the
graphite cylinder directly to the crococable, so it has good contact
now and wih a 50 Ohm load resistor it just starts now at 0.7 Volts
and then goes down in a few hours to 0.48 Volts.

Well, I guess that is the typical setup for a Zamak-Graphite cell
and any other voltage levels can only be got, if you add some other chemical
substances, like you probably did.
I think this is still a good cell construction, but a bit too expensive
compared with plate designs, which will also much easier scale up.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: Bruce A. Perreault on April 07, 2005, 02:35:39 AM
Stefan,

When the cells dried out the graphite cells became clogged with microscopic crystals.
The 1.8 volts can be kept up to this level until the alloy completely decays, which
will be a long time. The current has nothing to do with the few drops of ammonia
that is added to the one gallon of water. It is used only to adjust the pH.

                           -Bruce P.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: hartiberlin on April 07, 2005, 04:19:51 AM
Bruce,
when the alloy is oxidized, the 1.8 Volts will never be reached again.
Then you will only get about 1.1 to 1.3 Volts Maximum...
The gray layer of the oxidized Zamak is paying its tribute,
so the voltage will always be lower then.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: Bruce A. Perreault on April 07, 2005, 04:38:41 AM
Stefan,

This is incorrect... because the oxide possesses micro-pores.

                    -Bruce P.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: hartiberlin on April 07, 2005, 04:42:58 AM
Bruce,
maybe you have found a trick to do that.
In all my cells, when they are used, they never reach
the first fresh voltage again !
My best voltages with fresh new Zamak-graphite cells
were so far around 1.2 to 1.3 Volts open circuit , but you
will only reach about 1 Volt, when the cell has been used already
on a load and the Zamak rod is oxidized already a bit.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: Bruce A. Perreault on April 07, 2005, 04:55:52 AM
Stefan,

This is true only if you are using only saline solution. Yes, you are
correct... I do have an ace up my sleeve.  ::)

                -Bruce P.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: hartiberlin on April 10, 2005, 11:32:42 PM
Bruce, if you use other chemicals the Zamak rods might get used up too fast.
It might just put out more instant power , but not as long as the only saline solution.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: Bruce A. Perreault on April 10, 2005, 11:44:51 PM
Stefan,

It is not so much what you use as your conductive vehicle. It is the pH that is most important. I also add impurites to the electrolyte that ups the current without speeding up the decay of the alloy. Other alloys may also be added to the chemalloy to increase current. This actually reduces the available voltage if the added alloy has the effect of increasing the current. If the added alloy increases the voltage then the availailable current is reduced. The problem when you increase the current you are using up the anode more quickly. The real trick is the decrease the resistance of the electrolyte without having it react too much with the anode or cathode for this matter.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-Bruce P.
Title: Re: Bruce?s 2nd cell picture
Post by: hartiberlin on February 19, 2015, 12:18:23 AM
I have now uploaded my old videos here from 2005 to Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru8xRheEfeY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XnT6hw9FYM


By the way, this cell runs better, when the graphite cylinder is in air and only the inside
is filled with graphite powder and saltwater.

As this is a metal-Air battery the outer graphite cylinder needs air to breathe to convert the
oxygen, so if it is completely in saltwater it will not work much longer when all
stored oxygen in the graphite lattice is used up !

Regards, Stefan.