Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Solar energy => solar systems homemade and commercial => Topic started by: hartiberlin on October 19, 2009, 09:33:40 PM
-
Here is another breakthrough technology for maling your own cheap solar cell.
Watch :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ6XqEsutcM
He uses barley gras extract ( probably barley gras powder) mixed with
epoxy glue and carbon fibers and glues this onto an aluminium foil
with a copper wire just touching the carbon fibers.
He still has a second layer alufoil with a paper isolated between this.
So it seems he just built a paper-alufoil capacitor, where one
foil-"plate" was additionally charged by sunlight.
He gets over 0.420 Volts out of this cell.
He writes in the video comments:
This is a solar cell made out of inexpensive materials. this video explains how to make a solar cell from 2 pieces of aluminum, a piece of paper, some 5 minute epoxy, carbon fiber and barley grass extract (i sh!t you not). I was reading about the photo electric effect. Plants use this to split water and make sugars. I figure: if I just mix the chlorophyll with epoxy and carbon, it should form a photoelectric layer. in fact this cell performs much better than I expected. Pulling half a volt from my desk light, it does better than a satellite grade cell i have in my junk box, which will only pull 200 mills, 500 in sun. Patent pending.
I don't have good enough equipment to reliably test current output. I need a new fluke. Yes, It needs it push current to be useful. This device is a capacitor with one side coated with a photoelectric material (chlorophyll). Adding a diode, or grounding one side greatly effects the rate at which voltage builds. My main point is that cells need not be silicon, or even silicon oxide, though i think CDS cells (on glass) are amazing. I am currently working on grant for conventional solar cells + CSP
Then he wrote me via email:
Re: Regarding artificial leaf solar cell
There is no water in the cell, there is 0 voltage with no light, otherwise i would not have posted. the cell consists of epoxy mixed with chlorophyll (actually barley extract, glued to one side of a paper capacitor (other side recieves no light.) Chlorophyll functions in plants by converting photons to electrons, powering the plant. My voltmeter does not work for amperage, but I will let you know at some point, I managed to save the cell so I can still do some testing on it. I never posted it but I made a single cell that made three volts using a similar concept making the capacitor around a glass bottle (there are photo electric compounds which can be added to the water to adsorb light, creating an electrostatic charge in the fluid , this too would show zero voltage in no light. I have worked with conventional photovoltaics so I know what they look like under a voltmeter (.5v), no galvanic effect. What made it work was the addition of chopped carbon fiber strand to form a conductive net in the chlorophyll layer..other chemicals are known to work besides chlorophyll
============
So far all the infos I have about it.
Regards, Stefan.
-
You can extract all the chlorophyll you want out of a leaf by gently boiling it in rubbing alcohol from
the supermarket.Be careful or you can get burned.The alcohol can catch fire but if you are careful you can do it like in a glass coffee pot.Let the mixture evaporate over 2 or three days to get the powder(chlorophyll).As far as I know this method of extraction does not harm the chlorophyll.Triffid
-
I did this one summer day at my dads house in the 1960's and surprised my grandma.It turned a beautiful green.I was about 15.Triffid
-
I would try elmers glue mixed with powdered chlorophyll.The elmers glue drys clear.Triffid
-
Since the carbon fibers are used to make it (the layer) conductive.One might use a small amount of zinc oxide,or tin oxide or maybe a pinch of graphite? Not enough mind you,to block the sunlight. Just throwing out some low cost solutions here.Triffid
-
@triffid,
nice ideas.
Does the alcohol cooking method really work to extract the chlorophyll without damaging
it ?
Normally the rubbing alcohol from the supermarkets are made non-drinkable with bad additional chemicals,
so maybe it is better to use isopropyl alcohol from the pharmacy or drug store ?
What about extraction of the really beautiful color of green moss ?
How could this be done ?
I always love green moss, when I go walking in the woods.
Regards, Stefan.
-
Here is another guy experimenting with "solar-capacitors" to capture sunlight
in selfmade solarcells .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZy_e7uRZ2Q
-
perhaps a high proof grain alcohol would work.
..I think that setting the whole thing in clear epoxy would work fine.
You can obtain filament carbon fiber from some online retailers, i recently got some as a ribbon variety ( many tiny strands in a band ), http://www.acp-composites.com/home.php?cat=251 (http://www.acp-composites.com/home.php?cat=251) it comes unraveled quite easily and it conducts electricity. The problem is getting the the whole thing to remain a circuit while the epoxy sets.
But why chlorophyll? ..why not a different dye / pigment instead?
-
Like I have been preaching, use LASER dyes, Stimulated emissions of radiation can multiply photon counts and increase efficiencies in a solar cell.
Jerry 8)
-
As far as I know"gentle boiling" with rubbing alcohol(30% water and 70% isopropyl) does not damage the chlorophyll.I don't know what the use of grain alcohol (ethyl) would result in.There are at least two types of chlorophyll,chlorophyll "A" and chlorophyll "B".My "gentle boiling" with rubbing alcohol does not separate them.The atomic structure of the two alcohols are different.So I would stick with rubbing alcohol and again the key words here are"gentle boiling".Drugstore rubbing alcohol is what I would use.Don't inhale the fumes.triffid
-
If you use chlorophyll as your dye of choice you can always get it from your grass clippings or your neighbors.I have used elmers glue in making copper oxide cells back in the early 1990's.I also used rusted wire window screen as a collector.New window screen has a plastic coating which must be burned off with a match if you want it to be conductive.Triffid
-
I suggest first put you fresh grass cutting in a blender and turn it in to a paste.
Secondly, the whole point of using alcohol is that it is a solvant and boils at a low temperature.
You best make yourself a distill and ensure the vaporized alcohol does not catch fire. therefore, use an electric hub for this purpose as there are no flames.
Further, if you cool the vaporized fumes, you end up with alcohol again so, you will cut your costs of extraction.
I think the reason you want a low boiling point medium is so that you do not destroy the substance you are trying to extract.
Having said all that, I cant see why algee can not be grown between sanwiched sheets of glass. Where I live, the normal tap water starts going green after a week when kept in a bottle.
-
I used tree leaves to show my grandma at the time.Still moss or whatever is green and has chlorophyll in it.I guess its overcooked if it turns brown or black on you.Good idea on recapturing the alcohol.triffid
-
although his results are interesting, the net yield seems low; the idea is that it be useful though. In practice wouldn't it be better to assume that what he's created is more like a thermojunction than solar cell; even though that's what most solar cells are.
Wouldn't the requirements for a true solar capacitor be something along the lines of a NONconductive path between the plates? I don't know many capacitor that conduct across the plates - this would truly be a marvel.
-
forget the blender the alcohol will take the chlorophyll out through the cell walls.Triffid
-
wouldn't soap do the same thing?
-
I never tried soap.Triffid
-
The whole thing would be better if centrifuged..not everyone has one of these things though.
-
I watched on public tv last night a show titled"The Botany of Desire".It was talking mostly about plants.The flowering plants came into being about 100 million years ago.So they talked about tulips
and showed a lot of dazzling colors.So they talked about how the plants evolved different chemicals.
If chlorophyll is photoreactive then maybe some of the other chemicals are too from the petals of a colorful flower?So maybe a red,yellow ,or blue chemical from a flower's head would be more photoreactive than regular chlorophyll?It would still be extracted the same way.Just thinking out loud here.Triffid
-
Hi triffid,
nice ideas,
is anyone going to try it ?
Am pretty stuck again in work,
but tried today a few new tests for my
upcoming graphitepaper-alufoil homemade battery, which
can power a Joule Thief.
Will soon post a few videos about it.
But maybe some of you can try this solar cell now and
post results ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
-
I remember watching a tv show about how insects see the flowers and the wavelength of light which they reflect make it look, to them, as though it is glowing ..a landing strip of sorts.
I don't really know what there is to be desired about the pigments for solar purposes however, as the pigments there reflect the more useful spectrum in solar science.
-
I'm not really set up to do anything except come up with ideas.I have the time but not the lab.Maybe I have more than I realize?I have two or three chemistry sets I could dig out of the closet.Triffid
-
..a truly novel idea would be to use pine tree pollen as the pigment. 8)
-
I learned today that the amazon area has changed the least out of all the continents since the super continent Panga broke up over 200 million years ago.Another reason to not destroy the rain forest there.It's one of the oldest unchanged areas of the earth.Since plants are good at making biochemicals maybe a super photoactive dye is there somewhere?Triffid
-
I recall that somewhere I read an article that said chlorophyll is only 2% efficient at converting sunlight into energy.So does this mean 2% is the maximium that this cell can come up with?Triffid?
-
Think of raising tulips on the moon and mars!triffid
-
actually what you all want is a Quantum Dot LASER photoelectric dye.
the dye multiplies the photons by lasing the medium and producing higher photopressures and photoreactions.
it doesn't necessarily need to be a dye, it could be a solid of some sort.
Multiplying photons is the best way to achieve super high efficiencies in a photovoltaic system.
a photovoltaic system that uses black body radiation could in a sense power itself from its own thermal emissions.
just about everything gives off black body radiation.
there are a lot of options on the table but multiplying photons is on top of the list.
Jerry 8)
-
I did this one summer day at my dads house in the 1960's and surprised my grandma.It turned a beautiful green.I was about 15.Triffid
@anyone
Who knows if the chlorophyll can decompose like a leaf in sunlight like most organic compounds?
If so, one has to continually make solar cells to generate power, right?
--Lee
-
What about fosfor? Or Fluor?
-
if you want a solarvoltaic system to generate perpetual energy then converting Black body radiation at high efficiencies would do just that, a black body radiation solar cell would only need 'self body waste heat' to convert to electrical current.
it would be sort of like a very efficient thermoelectric pile sensitive to thermal self emissions on the top surface layer.
this could be included into the visible spectrum, top layer of cell converts black body radiation to electricity, each layer below that would convert the next highest frequencies to electricity. each layer is its own band gap filter proceding to the bottom of the cells substrate layers which would be in the high UV range.
a simple V gap frequency mote would act as a filter to allow broad spectrum band gaps, the top of the V is Black Body gap and the bottom of the V is High UV band gap filter.
so we would have a substrate that would be like this; [VVVVVVVVVV].
the picture below simply shows black body radiation transition.
-
something like this.
-
Of course,chlorophyll would degrade if exposed to too high a heat or maybe even too much light?Perhaps an inorganic dye would be better but not as cheap as chlorophyll would be since you can get it from plants.triffid
-
Of course,chlorophyll would degrade if exposed to too high a heat or maybe even too much light?Perhaps an inorganic dye would be better but not as cheap as chlorophyll would be since you can get it from plants.triffid
@triffid
That thought had crossed my mind as well. But wouldn't dye suffer from the same effects as the chlorophyll?
Here's an idea:
Shine a light on lots(large amounts arranged in sheets) of photochemically active compounds and wire the substrate to collect electricity. There's already a patent for such a process, but I don't know the number. ::) >:(
--Lee
-
I think its possible an inorganic dye would not be as prone to degradation as an organic dye but of course it depends of the inorganic dye (and I have done no research on it) so I am just thinking out loud here.I figure one could add as much dye to the cell as they want.So maybe more dye = more power output?I hope thats the case with Chlorophyll(remember my it's only 2% efficient post?).Triffid
-
these are the kind of dyes that would benefit solar cell technology.
-
"chlorophyll" as is used in plants, is essentially a pentagon of oxygen atoms, with 4 hydrogen atoms stuffed into the corners, forming a ring with a single magnesium atom in the very center.
around this is a shell of hydrogen, surrounded by a shell of carbon.
forming the center of the chloroplast.
from here there is a chain of hydroxic acids that transmit electricity from the chloroplast to the circuit-center of that portion of the leaf. where the electricity is used to split water into hydrogen and oxygen.
a single photon enters into the ring, passes through the ionized magnesium, and increases its energy level which triggers it to gain an electron (from the electrolysis), then immediately decays back to its normal level and releases said electron into the electrical circuit, to further the electrolysis process and gives the plant lots of carbon and hydrogen, with-which to grow.
if you separate these chloroplasts ( through a sort of extract), prepare them into a mixture, and some of them randomly wind up facing in the right direction when applied to the cell.....
provided you are able to substantiate a proper contact to one side of the chloroplasts, and that your extraction process did not destroy the cells....
it sounds pheasable....
if anyone figures out a way to successfully extract chlorophyll without destroying it, i'll replicate some test cells here.
-
as i understand it, dyes are rather bulky molecules ...perhaps an inkjet printer could be utilized to perform as a printing mechanism?
-
@sm0key2,
That is a very good description.
I think the quick test on any destruction of the chlorophyll is the brown that you find on grass stains. It is the giveaway that the chloroplasts have broken up.
Also, be careful NOT to freeze it during your work to extract the chloroplasts in tact.
My bet is that the chlorophyll that survives the drying and epoxy is going to remain photosensitive.
Most natural dyes (mostly being flavonoids) lose their color upon exposure to light.
This means yes they are active, but the electrons are not being replenished.
So, these could stop working.
I therefore think the chlorophyll is the best bet for a single compound.
Otherwise you will need to make a 2 part compound like the efforts in the other diy cheap solar thread.
It is too rainy and too cold for me to try this, maybe we have some folks down under who can try it?
jeanna
-
I Suggest looking at nature for choosing the plant to extract from.
For example:
Grass: Never gets real direct sunlight on the leaves.. Always "dimmed" due to neighbours and standing upright postion. So I guess this will decade quick in direct full sunlight.
Cactus: Can stand in sun all day, so better resistant Chlorophyll
Vern: Grows in shadows.. So light absorbing factor is much higher
Waterlily: Used to fluidsubmerging
Etc etc
Maybe a mix or a few tests will provide a more sustaining chlorophyll
Out of the box: Anyone ever considered keeping the leaf alive?
-
I think keeping the leaf alive would not be practical but you could stick the leaf in sugar water.It would live a little longer.Cactus has a real tough waxy skin but there are two general types of chlorophyll(A and B).Both are green as far as I know.Plants have skins too.Ranging from thin to thick.triffid
-
Has anyone actually replicated this leaf solar capacitor/cell? are we past that and working on improving?
-
I have some iodine to do some testing with...
But ... I am afraid I do not have any carbon fiber...
Pretty radical idea though I would prefer a way to grind the carbon fiber into a powder maybe it would give a nanotube like increase in power...
I just wonder how factual these claims are or if they require other elements not yet mentioned.
http://www.jumbomarketplace.com/laser--photo-blue-p-18058.html
Would laser ink be of use in this project for laser printers???
I guess I look for laser dyes for dye lasers and everyone expects you to fill out some damn form not exactly my cup of tea an easy paypal payment would be nice but if the cell is more expensive then 1.00 per watt it is not worth it to me I will simply buy cells and make my own panels!!!
-
So anyone tried it? Or just expectations?
Maybe I will but I would like to hear someone who tried it.
-
Just watching...