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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: wattsup on October 18, 2009, 06:28:42 PM

Title: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on October 18, 2009, 06:28:42 PM
@all

I started this new thread to not meddle with other threads that are well ongoing and well advanced in a certain direction, that I thought some may consider it inappropriate to ask this in those threads.

So, the question really boils down to finding the secret to the workings of an SM TPU. I think one of the basic questions to fully ask and try to answer this is "how does DC power really play into the TPU", since we all consider it a given that DC power is the source of the TPU. lol

OK, I hope members will really like this thread because it will try to go beyond what we usually accept as standard EE notions and try to figure out what the hell is really happening with the "real" way electricity works in our circuits and ultimately help making a functional TPU.

I have been bugged by this question for a very long time now, so I will simply start off by asking a few simple questions that are shown in the diagram below.

So if any of you can answer this questions. I will then continue on with the follow-up questions and advance from there.

wattsup

PS: Most of you already know that I have not followed any formal EE training. I have brushed shoulders on this forum with some great and savvy members and have learned a great deal over the years. But there is always a side of me that is always asking why. I know that when we learn something in school, we are asked to take it as a given fact. "That's the way it is", we are told. But then when you start asking why, most answers will relate to a law, a rule, an accepted understanding of how so many "natural" events occur in the way they do. But myself, I am not a buyer of all accepted notions, as SM and other inventors had to go against the grain of accepted knowledge to achieve something..... well something out of this world. Or, maybe better put, something more in tune with the reality of nature.

Maybe one last point. Please try and keep your answers and explanations so that even a low level EEer will understand it. This way there will be no misunderstanding in how we perceive your answers and comments.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Yucca on October 18, 2009, 08:18:14 PM
Hi Wattsup,

series no.1:

1=N
2=S

3=N
4=S

series no.2:

1=S
2=N

3=N
4=S

current flows from positive to negative in both cases.

Why?..because thats what my DVM and compass say lol.

edit:
I can't answer your question though, I haven't a clue why it happens, yes I know about electrons, but this charge quanta called an electron is probably just a small piece of the puzzle, its movement might be the axiom of "electronics" but as to whats really going on to cause it and exactly what a mag field is... ?

Yucca.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on October 19, 2009, 03:00:43 PM
@Yucca

Thanks for your answers. I was also asking for the current polarities at those points but this is OK. I am not going to say if you are right or wrong in your answers. We will hopefully discover this as the thread continues.

As for your member Types, I would say I am 50/50. The Type 1 side of me does all the TPU discovery works plus a smaller percentage for just other things, and this saves a shit load of time and effort for the Type B side of me that does all the building and testing. Think think and think again before building. You may work out most all the build in your head, work out the bugs there, then build your best shot instead of just building to build, or, by thinking first you may find the build will go nowhere and wait until you have a better idea. But building just for the sake of it is not my style anymore. Been there, done that.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Yucca on October 19, 2009, 06:59:28 PM
@Yucca

Thanks for your answers. I was also asking for the current polarities at those points but this is OK. I am not going to say if you are right or wrong in your answers. We will hopefully discover this as the thread continues.

As for your member Types, I would say I am 50/50. The Type 1 side of me does all the TPU discovery works plus a smaller percentage for just other things, and this saves a shit load of time and effort for the Type B side of me that does all the building and testing. Think think and think again before building. You may work out most all the build in your head, work out the bugs there, then build your best shot instead of just building to build, or, by thinking first you may find the build will go nowhere and wait until you have a better idea. But building just for the sake of it is not my style anymore. Been there, done that.

Hi Wattsup, I edited out my type[1] and [2] writing because I thought it might derail your thread with it being a first post. I agree with you, the perfect combination is a theorist and a builder to test those theories. I think building for the sake of it is somewhat therapeutic, like an old fella in a rocking chair carving a corn cob pipe, and there's nothing wrong with that because maybe, just maybe, if the carve is lucky then the magic might happen. If everyone on the planet built diffewrent configs and somehow the data could be organised and made sense of then after a few months alot would be learnt.

What do you mean by current polarities? I only know that current flows from pos to neg (in a classical sense) but of course if we observe ringdown over time then those polarities will be swinging all different, is this what you mean? the AC ringdown?

Cheers, Yucca.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: rotaryfcg on October 19, 2009, 09:54:42 PM
I'll give it a try,
at series no 1.direction of current flow from 1 to 4 (electrons moving from 4 to 1). polarities 1N,2S,3N,4S, 1+,2-,3+(not quite- actually it's the same polarity as 2), so 1 + 2,3 -, 4 -. i think i see your point, for a current to flow there must be a potential difference and that could exists even with only negative or positive potentials. so again 1 pos,2 negative in respect to 1 same as 3 -pos in respect to 4 neg.
allmost the same story in series 2.
quite a mess , i know, sorry
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on October 23, 2009, 03:26:11 PM
last summer i had my little ali on a swing ... and she says daddy give me a ROLLIAN SPINN ...  :D


i said what is a rollian spinn  she said it is when you wind it up and let it go ....  8)

 :o ;D

i think you give it a kick in the butt at the release ...

ist ..

perhaps she ment the flows of electricty ...

cant wait to finish all this construction i have started  ;)

i add a good song .... 

COLD PLAY SPEED OF SOUND ...

where to .....where do i go ...
if you never try then youll never know .. how long .....do i have to climb up this side of this mountain of mine...


if you could see it you'd understand ...  when you see it then you'll understand ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TahH7B_aUZc

all the inventors could NEVER DESIGN....  ;) :D ;D 8)

PEACE YOU ALL!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on November 21, 2009, 04:18:24 PM
OK, thanks to those members that have posted on this thread and to the question I asked above. Since no one else wants to find out more about this I will use this thread to put down some observations on the TPUS, etc, and we can get back to the initial question some other time.

I just got my next pulse generator. An HP 8111A. Hope it lasts longer then the last one, but this one is really great, digital precision and best of all, no more loud cooling fan noise.

Well let's start with a basic one.

One of the attributes of the TPU can be simply explained and we should have seen this FROM DAY ONE and that is SLIGHT VIBRATION at 7.8 hertz.

Who will try this first. Actually, who has not tried this before. lol. Take any DC pulsing source and connect it to any type of coil you want. While pulsing the coil at let's say 60 hertz take a small Alnico magnet and bring it near the coil about 1/4" to 1/2" away. What do you feel. Slight vibration. Now try and hold that magnet so tightly that it does not vibrate. Impossible? Now bring up the frequency and tell me at what frequency you stop feeling a vibration.

Yes, once SM puts a magnet on the FTPU, right next to the toroid coil, this is when the vibration starts. Magnet against pulsing toroid coil or any coil. I tried it too many times. Without a magnet near the coil, it will never vibrate on its own unless you are pulsing 1000s of volts and high amps, them wires will not move enough for a human to feel anything.

So SM says a slight vibration of 7.8 hertz. So if this is true, this means the toroid had to be pulsing at 7.8 hertz and that makes perfect sense to feel this slight but unstoppable, undampable vibration. Also at 7.8 pulsing, this is such a low frequency that it will provide the best amplitude potential. In my FTPU mock up voltage rises to 50 volts with only one dual coil toroid, one Litz ring covered with one complete control coil. lol

All the smaller TPUs had one or more magnets placed on them to start with and that is the vibrator. NOTHING ELSE. It's not the electrons moving the wires. It's the coil field moving the magnet. This vibration has been equated with a kick, which is the basis for so many discussions on this forum. The kick was another distraction.

But tell me at what frequency a human will stop feeling something vibrating. No where near 5000 hertz. If that toroid was pulsing at anything more then 800 hertz, you would not feel a vibration because the vibrating is from a physical movement and such movement will have a speed limit. Just like a regular relay has a pulsing frequency limit. This proves also that in the OPTU, at least one coil, if not both coils under the magnets had to be pulsed for that same vibration to occur. Same in the STPU and 6TPU. Cripes, he puts a magnet inside the TPU then he says slight vibration. DUHHHHHHHHHHHH. How stupid could we have been to not realize this from day one. I think we were so mesmerized with the whole advent that we just did not see the obvious staring at us right in the face.

As for the LTPU, of course it did not need a magnet because you have two toroids side by side, equals two magnets side by side, pulsing. So what will this do? Vibrate. Basically SM new why it vibrated but used this as another distraction. We just took this vibration and went off on so many tangents of function modes trying to explain the gyro-motion. It was all bull to start with. The action is so elementary we just could not accept it and had to find an out of this world explanation.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on November 21, 2009, 05:55:27 PM
In 2007 I put Neos in the GK4. I got chatter.
I taped them to the coil. I got vibration.
I grabbed the magnets in the coil. I got headache.
SM holds the TPUs very gingerly. He stays away from the magnets.
The warning I got was 'When the neos chatter you have microwaves. Don't touch the magnets'.
Cabinet magnets are weaker so just a bit safer.
That is why I never turned it on again.

--Giantkiller.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 21, 2009, 06:12:32 PM
another verry good reason i presue low voltage cold rectified methods ...

 :)

btw ... something just happined .. i got up from typeing ... i whitted out fell on the floor and came to ... verry odd ... this is not a usual event ...  i have never done that ...

any how !

the jt is verry safe  better if sheilded too to ensure no comm interferience ..
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on November 23, 2009, 03:43:32 AM
I'm too excited for words right now, so I figure I let you know what I discovered just now.

I have a setup similar to the one shown in the drawing,  and the toroid core is the coupling medium.   well,  I didn't like the resonance I saw on my scope, it seemed to be slightly out of tune or it would jump a bit in frequency, so I figured it wasn't tuned just right.   Then I got an idea, let me bring a magnet close to the core to saturate it a bit maybe I can just tune it even better.   Wow !!! then it happened...... The core started to BUZZ like a freaking toaster or heavy power transformer, I could feel the vibrations with my hand and it was so damn hot too. (the core is 2 inches diameter, so pretty small)  Guess what, the vibrations continued even after I REMOVED the magnet.  And another thing,  I'm working with high kHz frequencies not the low buzzing frequency.  I think i got the magnetic domains to spin in there.  This is so neat. 

EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 23, 2009, 04:22:57 AM
Good stuff EM!

Now wer'e cooking!

Out side ring also tuned to resonance?

Try with a speaker magnet as the dimensions of the cores in the videos seem to be the same as speaker magnets.

This means that the videos are more relevant than the letters.(at this stage at least)

Otto has this vibration but no body so far has been able to replicate it. 

Pics , dimensions, wire types, drive type  please (if you can stop shaking )

Excitement here too!

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 23, 2009, 05:42:22 AM
If the magnet is what makes the difference then it is the "magnetisim" that is the difference.

that difference is the resonance that is important perhaps?

this sounds like gobblede gook.. sorry, some better minds than mine will frame this better soon I hope.

Are you driving close to core saturation or does that seem to happen after it growls?




Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on November 23, 2009, 06:01:57 AM
red wire (see picture)   22 Gage
brown wire (see picture)   lamp cord  (18 gage ??, not sure)

core is painted yellow  like you see in SMs TPU's, I know it means something like the frequency range, etc.., maybe somebody can look it up online..

I think the combination of the fields created from my main coil  (normal to the toroid area) and the fields created orthogonal from the toroid windings, somehow interact and have the proper phasing and begin to go round and round, or maybe it just resonates due to some mixing action (saturated cores are nonlinear and mix frequencies, i.e. creating other frequencies then the ones involved, harmonics too, etc..)

By the way,  10 Amps flow through the brown wires (main coil has 20 turns or so, which means a flow of 200 Amps total), and the red wire probably has about 10/4 amps = 2.5 Amps, because the ration is 1:4 turns for the toroid,  (but this is just going from theory, I haven't actually measured the current, and I don't dare too with my precious instruments.)

The plastic on the core almost melted and started a fire that's how hot it gets.  This is hysteresis loss, I've seen it before in school. I think it is related to SM's TPU heat issues?  And there is a reason why his cores are on top of the control box and not inside,  they need COOLING !!!!!!!!!! and that's why they are also cemented to that metallic plate.

EM

P.S.  Those blue caps are rated at 1kV, but can withstand up to 2.5 kV, there is a reason why I put them in series, because the voltage on the "primary side" is around 2.5 kV, but on the "secondary side" around 1.5 kV.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 23, 2009, 07:54:11 AM
Thanks EM,

A bit clearer now

thank for your open source attitude
so, each ends of the bifilar main loop are terminated with series capacitance at the torriod.

Ive kept using parallel ..damm!



How many turns on the bifilar main loop?

The driving frequency and input is not shown , can you clarify where the initial excitation comes from...and, of course, do you see this as  this mains pick up in any way?

The frequency might be important to know as well as weather it changes as it vibrates.

My 15" ,7 turn loop has always had some funny phasing effect around 35 khz like an anti resonance.

I surely hope  we can all replicate this effect and finally get some common ground to work with/from.

perhaps you might start yet another thread called "magnetic vibration for dummies""?


Thank you again EM








Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on November 23, 2009, 08:06:05 AM
Hello all,

@Mannix

can you please clarify a little bit your "phasing effect"?

Its important for me and maybe us all.

Otto

PS: @EM

fantastic, but you know it, ha,ha.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 23, 2009, 09:01:25 AM
It happens when i run a frequency of 30-35 k into my 15" ring of lamp cord not connected bifilar, it does not seem to matter how many turns but i probably do not have the right value any way but whenever reach that frequency the phase seems to waver, very slightly like em said but mine was alw3ysa very minor. I only used parallel caps when mucking about with it .It was really designed as a test to check the numbers given . It is at one specific frequency but changes slightly with different size rings ..it at 220k as well but less I have not yet hooked up in series like em has done but I am doing that now. It is was  a slight wriggle but  Steven said it was important but would not say any more .

I was using a pure sine generator (a very  old Siemens communication line sender unit with 600ohm output)

perhaps your "feed back" was from your coax leads I dont really know but em has what you have it seems. But with a slightly different method that seem to be enclosed wit the loop

he has a square coil ..i wonder about that too  we will see 

My work with your circuits did not get the same results that you are getting its the why that is confusing to me right now.





   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on November 23, 2009, 10:01:59 AM
Hello all,

@Mannix

when I slowly tune a frequency I see 3 "break points" to say so at 245kHz and around 30kHz and at an unknown 3. lower frequency.

As I slowly tune a frequency from 500kHz down to 245 kHz  the signal suddenly jumps, is bigger and the frequency changes to a little bit lower value. The jumps are in the horizontal direction on the scope. Something like the particles are pushed in the horizontal direction.

The same at around 30kHz......

I see the same at a much lower, wrong frequency and I managed it to get the vibrations. Very dangerous!

Now imagine to tune the frequency to this "jumps", "breaking points". Result: vibrations. Very strong vibrations made only with coils. I dont use caps.

Hmmm....again the same s..t: I have blown my oscillator. Not the first time, not the last.

Otto

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 23, 2009, 12:17:56 PM
Yellow seems to be high frequency..from these people at least

http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerToro/FerToro-1.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Nikola Tesla on November 23, 2009, 01:50:38 PM
Yellow seems to be high frequency..from these people at least

http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerToro/FerToro-1.html

Color does not say anything.
It can be diffrent when you order somewhere else.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 06:47:44 PM
@ em  :)

now i know you got this down ... ever try open ends?  ;)

a little diffrent on the tuneing ..  you want to tune to the cosmos.....  ;)

this then becomes orbit ...

i can set a cap into oscolation from 1 pulse ...

i would like you to check it out ... if you get time !

i then circulat the spinn as the engery passes in and out of the cosmos ...

close to mpi only better  ;D ;D ;D ;D

william

this is exactally how your shock ya's work  ;)

of course the t sheild enhances this effect ...  humans only get 7 stones ...!

RA THE GOD OF THE SUN  ;) has 8  i need 36  ;)

btw i can sub stones for humans .....  ;) :D

it is possible i only need 24 ...  need more reserch ...  left that in dust 4 now ... ya know ...

other more important things need fixed first!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: MrMag on November 23, 2009, 09:12:02 PM
IST,

Great Idea!!

I will try that as soon as I get my cosmo's meter back from service :)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 23, 2009, 09:18:46 PM
i have years ago done this ...  ;)  mr . m  i offer you a clue ...  i hate giveing answers tho ...  :(

peontical diffrence....

william
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gravityblock on November 23, 2009, 10:35:58 PM
current flows from positive to negative in both cases.

Why?..because thats what my DVM and compass say lol.

Yucca

I know the theory about electrons flowing in opposite direction to the current.

Could it be because your DVM is in a different frame of reference than what your measuring?  The hands on a clock will rotate CW when you're looking at the face of the clock.  If you looked at the back side of the clock then you will be measuring the mechanism that moves the hands which will be moving CCW. 

So, will we say the electron and current flow is in opposite directions if the hands (electrons) move CW in the front-side frame of reference, but the mechanism (current) that moves the clock hands is moving CCW in the back-side frame of reference.  Of course not, because the hands (electrons) and mechanism (current) are moving in the same direction relative to each other in the same frame of reference, but are not moving in the same direction relative to different frames of references which is the front and back of the clock. 

Electron and current flows from negative to positive when leaving a source, and will flow from a 2nd source from the negative to positive to return to the first source.  There are two sources or two EMF's involved and they are a mirror image of each other, thus in different frames.  Between the two EMF's is a zero point.  As you move away from this zero point in separate directions, the voltage will be increasing.  It does not mean the electron and current flows in opposite directions.  They are the same thing.  Electron flow is current flow.  Your DVM is only reading the potential difference between it's terminals, it is not reading the potential difference that is outside it's terminals, which will have a different polarity than your DVM.

GB
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 23, 2009, 11:20:48 PM
@otto

torriod now singing 6-10khz at 36.04 k

driving pure sine at +10dbm

the cro shows the spot  as phase distortion on either side +/- a few hertz  and the sweet spot is back to sine .
A magnet sets off the singing.and is sensitive to it from a few feet away Nothing I would call real power yet. But this is most interesting.

I will post some pics when i get this thing tuned better.
@EM
I am interested to see your input drive if you have time 

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on November 24, 2009, 12:22:49 AM
Color does not say anything.
It can be diffrent when you order somewhere else.

If you mean different manufacturers' mixes, you are right. But in this case with Micrometal toroids, Mannix is right.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 24, 2009, 01:25:01 AM
it is all spins ...   there only 2 ....

ccw cw ...   tesla was facinated with counter rotating feilds.....   

this is spin ... 

this is cause ..  effect 3 feilds ...  gyro  ;)

merkaba

ballanced subatomic gyroscopic particle ...   all is made of thease ...  and you can divide them with spins like magnets ...  and when you un spinn them duality.. pos and  neg ..  you can reconnect them where ever you want  via 369 9 destonation   singularity 

simple right  tesla teleportation   can be made many ways ..

the feilds i think im unsure on this ...   electric gravitic magnetic  effect of spinns  i think then maybe there harmonics of those ... im only speculating ...

ist
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on November 24, 2009, 02:39:22 AM
@EM - @Mannix - @All (sorry for long post)

At the voltages and frequencies @EM is talking about, of course, you will find frequencies that will give some buzzing but this is not really inline with the FTPU build structure. I can now pulse up to 22mhz and p-p of only 16 volts and can get buzzing at certain levels but as soon as you put a magnet near the toroid, that's where you will get the real vibrations of the device especially if you pulse the toroid at 7.8 hertz range as described by SM saying a slight vibration in that range. Nice steady vibration.

But I get the point from these last posts trying to kindly say to me that the vibration in the TPUs is coming from somewhere else, but I would have to respectfully reiterate that it is not. Usually, when something is so obvious, the obvious is the reality. Our choice to look at so many other reasons is only a natural extension of our own inquisitive side, trying to find so many other effects. But all these other effects do have their own merit and basis and limits, but none will be able to nullify the effects of the obvious magnet to toroid vibration. I really suggest this be taken as a given and not mulled over endlessly. This will leave you to then work on the most important part of any TPU, and that is WORKING WITH GAIN.

So what does working with gain really mean. Well it can mean several things depending on how you intend to create your system and have some energy looped back to which point in a circuit.

I am convinced that in the TPUs, if they were real working devices in the true sense of overunity, then the only real novelty is how SM managed to have his devices work with gain. He says very little about this and that pushes me to conclude that this is one subject he wished to hide from us.

In an FTPU, if we consider that the two toroid coils are not those of high inductance because of their limited turns, then we must consider that there is such a coil in the system that we cannot clearly see and I think it is the one that is between the two layers.

In the OTPU, there are two coils of high inductance that are right below where he puts the two magnets. There is also a toroid coil like in the FTPU. In the STPU, 6TPU and others, it is easy to hide such a small coil inside the build.

There must be a relationship between a coil of high inductance, a diode, a capacitor tank and a toroid coil where when these components are wired together, I don't know how yet but am working on it, so that when a pulse of let's say 4 vdc is created, it enters the capacitor in an additive manner. Voltage rise would be 4, 8, 16, 20, 24, 28 volts and so on. We touched on this in The Tesla Project thread were @allcanadian gave a good explanation on why the capacitor was being charged relative to the coil of high inductance, but I can't find the actual post. Have you ever tried pulsing a cap and coil to resonance LC but with a diode in there to push it only one way. Even in the Jule Thief trials, this gain solution would be a definite advantage.

The main problem with capacitors is simple. If I give one pulse into a capacitor that holds it at 100 volts, then follow this with 100 pulses of 25 volts, nothing much will change or grow in voltage inside the capacitor. The capacitor is like a maximum voltage indicator. If I had 50 different voltages pulsed into the capacitor, the highest voltage will show at the end but the lower voltages will just bounce off of it and become wasted energy. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Not another angle????????

So the question is, how can you pulse 4 volts into a coil and have each pulse added to the capacitor to eventually get 100 volts. This for me is the definition of working with gain and this is what I am working on now as one of the final pieces to this puzzle. This is where the real novelty is and the real secret to SM TPUs. Without this, there is no TPU possible because you will not be able to make use of the energies produced. Once this method is known, then it is only a matter of technicality to use it to our advantage. Example: Pulse at 6000 hertz into a cap that grows with gain. At every 100 pulses, discharge into a transformer primary coil and you will have a 60hz with a good output.

But I am sure the use of a high inductance coil is required and that putting the coil and capacitor in series with a diode placed somewhere around them is required. You see, you can add energy to a capacitor or you can add energy to an inductor that has a capacitor in series, and the capacitor will charge to the inductors level. Now if the inductor can accumulate in an additive manner the 4 volts being pulsed into it and grow with this voltage holding more and more inside the coil core, then the capacitor should follow this gradual rise at each pulse. Anyways something like that or close. There has to be a way and SM found that way, and in my view, most our research should be pushed in that direction to find a solution to this gain question. Once you have answered the gain question and/or technique, then I think @JackDurban was very right to state that the SM TPUs did not have to be round, toroid type. Any form of coupling would do as long as you know how to make it grow with gain. Such a technique would help so many other guys working with their own designs.

Maybe one last thing here. Yes I am talking in simple terms, I am aware that a capacitor has the uF value and this will determine how fast it can get charged with a given voltage. But this does not change from the fact that what is required is a method of rapid incremental voltage increase and then rapid discharge. Everything else is secondary (no pun intended). lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on November 24, 2009, 05:41:57 AM
@mannix,  I use a simple push-pull configuration, self oscillating and transformer coupled.  I have embarked on a test to see how far I can couple magnetically using just loped wires (not house wiring) and I converted my frame coil receiver into a transmitter (other thread shows it)   We'll it's kind of disappointing, the most I can get is two feet or so away from the frame coil, so my house wiring (driven by my magnifier/resonator) works so much better, but it's highly dangerous too and could damage other components/appliances.  I think I need long wires warped around my house, but I'm not about to spend the money on such a crazy feat.   This would explain why the power lines work so well for SM, they are very very long (relative to his house) and SM gets a nice even field from them. (separation between the wires is also critical, and he has that separation)

anyway, nice singing results, magnet sensitive from a few feet away, that's great !!.  What do we do with this phenomena now?  (it's a rhetorical question   lol)  It's all about the Q of the resonance and the mixing of frequencies.  I'll be gone for a while (holidays, etc..)
EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 24, 2009, 05:42:35 AM
@watts up

I agree with your perspective , but both otto and em have something that is out of the ordinary. what I have so far is probably quite ordinary as the levels do not seem that great but the magnet does start something that then continues. It is like the magnet triggers another mode of tuning that then continues. otto has this with no core at all.

Some more info from EM would help make this easier to define.

Tuning to magnetisim still seems a worthwhile persuit

This is one half of my efforts

the other is combining 3 frequencies . I hope they meet each other at some point.

I would like from you your latest ftpu diagram as there are so many in your archive

keep up the good work!

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on November 24, 2009, 07:03:42 AM
Hello all,

@Mannix

that are great news!!!

I hope you use a core but I dont think so, ot you have the wrong core material. Take care because the particles are hitting your body!!!

As I have changed the core in my TPU I have now to use a core im my little HV transformer.

As already mentioned, the frequencies have to meet at 5 or 6kHz.

Until last weekend I thought its impossible to get a vibration with sine waves but I managed somehow to connect my little transformer in a way to get sine waves and when I tuned the frequency I saw the sines vibrated but......I prefer vibrations from square waves because the vibration signals are sooooooo big.....and its a good control for me:

when the high voltage is not so big I see normal signals to say so but when I have a really big high voltage I see how the squares and kicks are changing into sines. This means for me that my coils have a real big high voltage.

I forgot to mention that I dont use caps. I have a little transformer with a primary and 2 secondaries ( bifilar).

A lot of times I have readed posts about the flame when SM shorted the wires in a video.

I have this flame when I short the wires. Its like a fire and yes, I had not once my lamp cable in flames. The isolation was burning. So, dont worry about this.

Today I have a "special job", ha,ha.

For a friend I have to construct a charging - discharging device for caps.
But its a very short job because I have to finnish it today. Please dont say me how to do it because ....  Im clever....(Im joking of course, ha,ha)

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Qwert on November 25, 2009, 02:20:51 AM
@wattsup
I'm also like you, not trained in this field.  But unlike you, I don't practice this. I have only some basic knowledge. I am interested in this forum as a potential user of the TPU. I decided to compare older articles from this forum to the new ones. I found some articles of the past which look important (at least to me) but  nobody respond to them. Here are two of them; I think they can bring some help to your issues:

1.  Quote of Steven Marks' words:

"If the plate voltage is not rectified then it is AC with a potential 60 Hz frequency.
That combines with the 5 volt 60 Hz in the coil of the htr transformer and generally amounts to nothing. In fact the power of the 5 volt transformer amounts to nothing.
It is an insignificant power supply except when the two transformers get slightly out of phase with each other, or when they are connected in reverse of one another."

My find for the above:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7926.msg201683#msg201683
"I got confirmation from a friend on my ideas that two saturable inductors can be used in parallel with a few nanoseconds of delay ( few feet of wire ) to create a tail-biter circuit. First one snaps the dc power off and the second is ready with collapse to turn the dc back on..

The trick is to wire the delay in the trigger of number 2 and space the repetition rate of the event so there is enough time for this process to occur.

i.e.. number 2 fires first but number 1 is still conducting.... then 1 fires and no one is conducting... then a few nanoseconds later number 2 goes into collapse and conducts ... so the result is a sharp snap off snap on of your hv dc bias

may be why two are present on the more powerful unit"

2.  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4297.msg86495#msg86495

Quote:

"A long time ago in this forum, I posted a link to a web site showing a graph of the inrush current before the magnetic field is established. I am lazy to search for it again, sorry. It shows that the inrush current at the beginning has a parabolic form, not linear.
Before that post, I described one of my test with BEMF and a simple transformer with two identical coils. The BEMF wasn?t my point. The point was that when an impulse is sent to a transformer after any residual field is gone it behaves in completely different way. In that test I described how the input and output was measured, all at DC level. What it showed that the output current was exceeding the input (two identical coils!!!) by about 30% (if I remember correctly) and all, again, was measured after using rectifies and smoothing capacitors. However, it wasn?t overunity. The point was, don?t send the next impulse while there is any residual magnetic flux left (that is where an iron core might be a problem, but I am not sure). What spherics is describing is a little different. He is saying that one should send the second impulse right after the first one and at the same time as close as possible to get into the space of the expending field created by the first impulse. That is where my example with the bicycles is coming from. So, here are two conditions. One is that the pulse has to be short enough to avoid any residual flux left for the second pair of pulses, and each second pulse in each pair of pulses should be very close. What spherics is describing is that there is a strange effect discovered with the above conditions".

Anyway, I guess I found the link to the article the author mentions at the beginning:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=712.msg4727#msg4727

And another interesting article of this author:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=712.msg4638#msg4638
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Qwert on November 25, 2009, 09:03:12 AM
There is another possible link for a suggestion mentioned by Kames:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=712.msg4767#msg4767

However, the link he is mentioning is incorrect. The proper one is this:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/8.html

I've just checked it.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on November 25, 2009, 12:49:18 PM
@EM

Can you clarify these connections please
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on November 25, 2009, 01:37:43 PM
  @wattsup

    The capacitor problem you mention is overcome when a tuned resonant circuit is used as an electrical energy storage scheme.  The system itself is the storage device not just the capacitor or the inductor.  The inductor can pump a capacitor totally dry.  Or transfer all of the charge on a single capacitor plate  to the other.  By use of a device like a spark gap or diode the input from scource to tuned system can be automatically introduced to the resonant circuit when the voltage of the power supply exceeds the voltage of the capacitor.  The power scource can be capacitively coupled to the resonant system so that very little current passes through the spark gap the spark gap itself acting as a capacitor in series with the tuned resonant circuit and a current limit device.  This is just capacitve coupling of electrical systems.  The current inside the tuned circuit increases in intensity with each input pulse until saturation of the capacitor or inductor is reached. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 08:04:10 PM
sparks...  bro ... 

if a spark gap is used .. AND I DONT CARE THE CURCUIT ...

something ELSE IS HAPPINING ..

it links DIRRECTLY TO ORBIT!  ;)

W


wires off into space ... and a potencial diffrence in the CAP!

it goes into a locked loop orbit ...  with space .. a constant exchange of engery! from 1 charge ...

this is how i found orbit! it will not show on a dc multi meter ... METER MUST BE ON AC .. AND IT OSCOLATES..  ALL BY ITS SELF!  ;) ;D

ok  now i can kick it in the a$$ and tune it ....  :o :o  to match the output winding resonnance ... 

i then cold remove the control  tuneing coil ..  wich is only required to tune it ..

peace!

try it ..  put a neo on a string and watch it move for ever in the spin vortex ..  8)  plus  it will sync with the cosmic  orbits...

when the cap finally oscolates to 0  it is replenished ... from nature

 :)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on November 25, 2009, 09:18:13 PM
If the electrolyte in the spark gap is considered we first find that it is ionized.  The frequency of the system oscillations will determine the type of photon energy that is distributed and absorbed by the electrolyte.  The frequency of the oscillation will determine how easily ionization of the electrolyte occurs not the intensity or amplitude of the oscillation.  The electron orbital momentum is converted to electron acceleration along a path determined by the magnetic field the gravitational field and the electric field.  The free electrons can be caused to accelerate into a target miss the target return to the ionized core atoms move through an external circuit whatever.  The energy emitted from the spark gap in the form of emwaves is but 10percent of the current gains from conversion of electron angular momentum in a chaotic electrolyte molecular matrix to electron acceleration along well controlled or defined paths.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 25, 2009, 09:46:24 PM
ready to put the pencil to paper ...  ;)

it is all about to happin

ist!

btw that is a tounge twister...  i had a hard time reading it lol 

all i know is i need nothing more than a cap and a coil .. bet i can start it by swiping a magnet past it ... in the proper polatity..  ;)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on November 27, 2009, 06:54:47 PM
Well, this rings clear!
If the electrolyte in the spark gap is considered we first find that it is ionized.  The frequency of the system oscillations will determine the type of photon energy that is distributed and absorbed by the electrolyte.  The frequency of the oscillation will determine how easily ionization of the electrolyte occurs not the intensity or amplitude of the oscillation.  The electron orbital momentum is converted to electron acceleration along a path determined by the magnetic field the gravitational field and the electric field.  The free electrons can be caused to accelerate into a target miss the target return to the ionized core atoms move through an external circuit whatever.  The energy emitted from the spark gap in the form of emwaves is but 10percent of the current gains from conversion of electron angular momentum in a chaotic electrolyte molecular matrix to electron acceleration along well controlled or defined paths.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on November 27, 2009, 08:37:35 PM
This thread has gotten sidetracked.

Quote
I found the secret when I read in some books about electron tubes. I was a TV repair man as well. Back in the days of electron tubes. The good old days I think.

In one of the RCA engineering manuals I read that it has been measured in a wire that there exists a slight increase in current when first electrons are caused to flow in it. This was explained because the earth's magnetic field exerted some influence on the wire and the electron flow inside it, or rather the electrons on the surface of the wire.

Even today you can find examples of discussion of this fact even in non scientific journals.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_9/12.html

If you look in Morgan Jones book, Valve Amplifiers, 3rd edition, on page 262 he says, The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth's magnetic field to produce a small kick.

SMALL KICK. Those words mean a great deal. It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires. It may be a small influence but it is actual OVER UNITY. I have spent several years of my life thinking about that.

Scientists tell us that over unity is impossible. They say that you cannot get more out of something then you put into it.

Then I think about that wire with the small kick when first turned on. . .

Therein lies the secret my friend.


What does this say about "electricity in the TPU"?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on November 27, 2009, 09:43:47 PM
Posted again for the umpteenth time. If ya seen it ya know.

Quote
If you look in Morgan Jones book, Valve Amplifiers, 3rd edition, on page 262 he says, The inrush of current through the filament interacts with the earth's magnetic field to produce a small kick.

SMALL KICK. Those words mean a great deal. It PROVES that there is an interaction between the magnetic field of the earth and simple electrons running through wires. It may be a small influence but it is actual OVER UNITY. I have spent several years of my life thinking about that

--gk.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on November 27, 2009, 09:50:05 PM
This thread has gotten sidetracked.


What does this say about "electricity in the TPU"?

i love that statement ... 

he sure was a briliant man!

ist!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on November 27, 2009, 11:57:25 PM
Posted again for the umpteenth time. If ya seen it ya know.

--gk.

Really?  So, what is he talking about the initial current interacting with the earth's magnetic field?  Interacts how?  If things are this straight forward, why can't you just pulse a coil and get more out than in? 

Must be a little more to it than that.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on November 28, 2009, 12:41:25 AM
@Qwert

Thanks for your post. It did not go unnoticed. There are many aspects of those links that have some pertinence in one way or the other but the problem always remains to place them in the practical components and means that are observable in the TPUs.

This is the main problem with many theories of the TPU. Guys will give great reasoning between one or more effects. But when it comes time to please please point to the actual observed TPUs and indicate where in the TPUs they are referring too, then we sort of go on the way side.

The theory has to fit the objects in question.

I think @tsl gave a good run down on another thread but again, no nuts and bolts substance.

@sparks

In terms of what you said about the resonance, maybe yes, maybe no. In my experience, at resonance, things seem to go very quickly back and forth, but as soon as you try and tap either into the circuit or in a side stream coupling, there is no torque potential and the resonance dies off quickly. You would need a device of let's say 500 volts in resonance while you are only pulling off 20-30 volts so as not to disturb the bulk of the resonance mass or circuit. Sort like making a loaf of bread and just living off the crumbs.

By the way, when the hell is @Grumpy going to come back. I think this banning thing has gone long enough. @stefan, if you read this, please do your magic.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on November 28, 2009, 01:58:38 AM
   Resonance is just a storage deal.  What it does is allow the accumulation of a small potential energy scource into a large one.  Kid on a swing.  The little taps add up.  This is just an oscillating inertial field converting from at rest energy in the capacitor and inertial momementum in the inductance of the system.   The resonance can allow for current and voltage potentials far in excess of the supply circuit but is not overunity by any stretch of the imagination.  It takes time for this condition to be reached.  What is the benefit>  Your power scource can be of very low intensity but manifesting at a high frequency.  A microamp on the input at a high frequency of input can become an amp at 60cycles.  Sometimes the taps add up and the sytem can now be done with oscillation and go into rotational resonance.
Slowing down in one 1/2 of the rotation and acclerating in the other 1/2.  Of course the taps would need to be applied at the epogee of the rotation.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on November 28, 2009, 05:50:58 PM
@Gobaga,
A different way to say what Wattsup & Sparks stated:
Same thing if you beat a bell with a rubber hose you get nothing no matter how many times you do it. But if you use a harder object (shorter pulse) and time it just right (frequency/resonance) you could topple a bridge with a ball peen hammer, a pinball flipper coil or a pinball free game knocker.
Now I have to find the wire length for next coil that matches 38.5khz at 1/4 wave length. Resonance keeps the field extended while we push on it in another way. You cut the flux connection completely off, modulate the field perimeter, or modulate the field interior like Tesla modulating the ionosphere dielectric with the Wardenclyffe tower. But you have to communicate with the medium in a way that excites it and matches what your process needs to match the output desired. Then we can 'Pump It Up'. The bigger the field the more we have to play with. Resonance helps us get there with lower power consumption. Look at the TPU this way and you see the hidden secret. 8)
Grumpy stated that if you force resonance with an LC tank with torque the E & B field out are of phase with each other. This adds extra return. Natural resonance returns them in phase so you get less. This was the answer I got when I asked about how the Poytning vectors looked.
The initial shockwave extends far greater then the conduction field from the initial current. The Earth's magnetic field responds to this. Otherwise you are trying to hold water with a screen.

Really?  So, what is he talking about the initial current interacting with the earth's magnetic field?  Interacts how?  If things are this straight forward, why can't you just pulse a coil and get more out than in? 

Must be a little more to it than that.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on November 28, 2009, 09:09:52 PM
@Gobaga,
A different way to say what Wattsup & Sparks stated:
Same thing if you beat a bell with a rubber hose you get nothing no matter how many times you do it. But if you use a harder object (shorter pulse) and time it just right (frequency/resonance) you could topple a bridge with a ball peen hammer, a pinball flipper coil or a pinball free game knocker.
Now I have to find the wire length for next coil that matches 38.5khz at 1/4 wave length. Resonance keeps the field extended while we push on it in another way. You cut the flux connection completely off, modulate the field perimeter, or modulate the field interior like Tesla modulating the ionosphere dielectric with the Wardenclyffe tower. But you have to communicate with the medium in a way that excites it and matches what your process needs to match the output desired. Then we can 'Pump It Up'. The bigger the field the more we have to play with. Resonance helps us get there with lower power consumption. Look at the TPU this way and you see the hidden secret. 8)
Grumpy stated that if you force resonance with an LC tank with torque the E & B field out are of phase with each other. This adds extra return. Natural resonance returns them in phase so you get less. This was the answer I got when I asked about how the Poytning vectors looked.
The initial shockwave extends far greater then the conduction field from the initial current. The Earth's magnetic field responds to this. Otherwise you are trying to hold water with a screen.

Giantkiller

We are close. Check what I and winsonali posted on this thread : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7987.460

Now backing to child on swing we can give him a ball at correct moments and this ball can be throw away at 1/4 of period of oscillation using no energy.We have gain even.When ball is thrown away child is pushed back a little so amplitude of oscillation is a bit raised. All we need to make is to periodically give ball to the child. Movement of this ball is basically unidirectional yet ball may be in swing action for a while.
Then if ball is thrown gravity pull it back to ground.This is what we need to tune into.

In electrical terms : we need to push ambient electrons across secondary "pump" so they will ride like a nuts from secondary ends. Then we will have inrush kick or radiant effect which we need to tune into.
Don Smith method.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: poynt99 on November 28, 2009, 10:24:03 PM
Well GK,

That's way off the statement SM made about the interaction with the EMF and electrons in the wire. He was clearly referring to the actual Lorentz Force experienced by and manifested in the wire.

This IS precisely what happens when the filament juice in a vacuum tube is turned ON, and is also what SM is referring to when the TPU is pulsed. The TPU experiences a series of pulsating movements, so tiny that they are only perceptible as a slight vibration. I take the gyro effect with a grain of salt, as that is most likely just a change in the effect due to the varying pitch of the TPU as it is freely rotated in the air by hand.

Now, how SM equates this to OU is a good question. I think it's obvious that there is a large gap of information linking this basic phenomenon, and the actual production of OU.

I think this "kick" as SM called it is simply a symptom (and is not mystical in itself)  of the starter process which is used to propel the device to it's full mode of operation.

It goes without saying that making the connection between the Lorentz Force kick and the final production of OU is the challenge.

.99
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on November 28, 2009, 10:37:43 PM
@Gobaga,
A different way to say what Wattsup & Sparks stated:
Same thing if you beat a bell with a rubber hose you get nothing no matter how many times you do it. But if you use a harder object (shorter pulse) and time it just right (frequency/resonance) you could topple a bridge with a ball peen hammer, a pinball flipper coil or a pinball free game knocker.
Now I have to find the wire length for next coil that matches 38.5khz at 1/4 wave length. Resonance keeps the field extended while we push on it in another way. You cut the flux connection completely off, modulate the field perimeter, or modulate the field interior like Tesla modulating the ionosphere dielectric with the Wardenclyffe tower. But you have to communicate with the medium in a way that excites it and matches what your process needs to match the output desired. Then we can 'Pump It Up'. The bigger the field the more we have to play with. Resonance helps us get there with lower power consumption. Look at the TPU this way and you see the hidden secret. 8)
Grumpy stated that if you force resonance with an LC tank with torque the E & B field out are of phase with each other. This adds extra return. Natural resonance returns them in phase so you get less. This was the answer I got when I asked about how the Poytning vectors looked.
The initial shockwave extends far greater then the conduction field from the initial current. The Earth's magnetic field responds to this. Otherwise you are trying to hold water with a screen.

Resonance?   

Resonance is two things: a slow build up of energy, and a repeating pattern (standing wave)

How does that have anything to do with the earth's magnetic field?

Did Steven mean that this extra energy only occurs in certain circuits or conditions?  If so, then it could take forever to find a circuit that makes this little bit of extra energy.  Has anyone looked at the circuits for tubes that Steven mentioned in association with the extra energy.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on November 29, 2009, 02:16:11 PM
  If the near field of the tpu is pumped up to a considerable size would it be possible for capture of low frequency wave energy.  The nearfield of the tpu enlarged to the point that it is able to capture low frequency scaler wave energy. The sperm whale has a very large oil filled ear.  Around this ear are placed sensors responding to different protions of the scource pressure waves as they effect the liquid at different times.  The whales brain is able to tell from which direction the longitudinal wave is coming from as it progresses through the liquid as well as the distance due to the strength of the signal.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on November 29, 2009, 05:14:37 PM
  If the near field of the tpu is pumped up to a considerable size would it be possible for capture of low frequency wave energy.  The nearfield of the tpu enlarged to the point that it is able to capture low frequency scaler wave energy. The sperm whale has a very large oil filled ear.  Around this ear are placed sensors responding to different protions of the scource pressure waves as they effect the liquid at different times.  The whales brain is able to tell from which direction the longitudinal wave is coming from as it progresses through the liquid as well as the distance due to the strength of the signal.

I feel like dankie when I say this, but there is just a bunch of blah blah blah in this thread.  A minute ago it was "resonance".  Now it's "scalar waves".
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on November 29, 2009, 10:30:11 PM
There are but a few things that are immensely related.

Look at the similarities in the device and the circuit to other things you've seen.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sclxmtr.htm
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on November 30, 2009, 12:16:14 AM
   SM stated that the magnetic field produced by the tpu was quite large.  Almost like what is produced by an energy sucking loop antennae.  By creating a rather large current in the tpu collector windings one would expect a rather large magnetic field.  Electrical enlargement of antennaes has been practiced for many years to both transmit and absorb emwaves.  Is there not a magnetic field anamolly associated with an electromagnetic wave.  If this wavelength is thousands of miles long we can still catch the magnetic portion of the wave.  The portion that compresses and rarifies space.  The larger the antennae the more gain from the magnetic disruption superimposed on it. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 01, 2009, 02:40:46 PM
@all

OK OK let's just take a right turn here for a minute or so.

The other day when @EM was showing his loop receiver, I tried to make one but it does not work. I then looked for an existing loop and knew about a loop inside a shot computer monitor I was about to take apart. And what do you have that loops around the monitor tube, a degaussing coil. It's only TWO TURNS of regular wire. And those two turns of wire when excited or energized will degauss the complete surface area of the monitor. The funny thing is the FTPU also has 2 x two turns loops onto which is wound the outer control coil.

I remember once I posted a patent that was a degaussing system that worked by pulsing into a coil at a certain frequency around the 200khz level if I remember correctly. I will have to look it up again.

But the point is this. What if (hey hey another what if) the TPU does not work with conventional on/off pulsing of the main coil to create either a transmitter or coupling event. Let's say you apply a straight DC to the loop instead of trying to pulse a stronger and stronger growing DC pulse. That would save a major hassle in terms of having the mosfet or transistor to handle all that stress plus any flyback. So you apply a DC straight onto the loop, then, on the same loop you apply a small unchanging pulsing (AC or DC I don't know yet) frequency that acts as a degaussing effect on the same loop that also has the DC in it. That will now make the pulsing of the DC in the loop without having a pulser on the DC line.

You can pulse a straight DC into a coil or you can maintain a DC field and pulse a degaussing frequency into the same coil. So imagine if you can degauss a dc coil with a side stream. This means the DC coil will be pulsing itself without any transistors or mosfets in the line and especially without that damn diode that will kill any flyback off that coil when it is in the degaussed mode.

The other thing about this idea is that it would fall in perfectly with SM being a TV techie, he has seen the degaussing effects many times. So another what if in my mind is that TV that blew up. What if a perfectly normal TV had a wacky degaussing coil that was going on and off continuously, even going faster and faster. What would that do eventually to the flyback transformer and TV yoke? (If my Dad was still alive, he would answer this because he was the best TV tech around. I also learned from my Mom that he had weekly Tesla meetings with a few other Montreal techies. Man I miss him so much.) But if it was a tube TV, some of those tubes could start receiving direct ambient feedback from the pulsing degaussing coil and this could compound any other side effects that leads to an explosion. Just thinking out load.

The main point here in understanding electricity in a TPU is to look for other available ways to make a pulse.

Either that or there is definitely something very new, a new way of looking at electricity itself, that standard or classical EE has not considered or has willingly forgotten since Tesla's time. My question on page 1 of this thread tried to lead into that question with some logical stages but that's OK. Can anyone remember seeing a Tesla patent that runs on DC and that also has in the drawing a + and - designation for the power source. Man, we have to think out of the damn box, but the box is soooo big and the openings are so few, lucky I do not suffer from claustrophobia.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 01, 2009, 02:54:41 PM
Let me just add this post here that I forgot to post a few days ago.

Here is how I visualize the inrush as we call a kick.

Take a compass. Why does the needle point towards the north pole? How can the north pole be so discreet yet strong enough to effect a small needle thousands of miles away, to make it point towards it. So if a compass needle does this, so do all other magnetic components.

Now think of the same compass placed between two small coils that are placed at East and West of the compass and its needle is still pointing north. The West coil has the south pole closest to the compass and the East coil has its north pole closest to the compass. Now energize both coils at the same time. What happens to the compass needle? It now points to the East coil? Now pulse the coils together. What happens to the compass needle. Depending on the pulse frequency it will still point towards the East coil and the faster the frequency, the less movement you will see from the needle.

So the main movement of the needle was when the coils were first energized because the needle that was pointing North, swung hard to the East, then stayed near East according to the pulse frequency.

For me, this is what is happening inside a wire. A compass is just the same as a magnet. All wires have little magnets (atoms) inside them that are all pointing to the dominant field source. In our case, it is the north pole. Applying power to the wire is like giving it a new north and south potential, like the East/West coils. When the wire is not potentialized (don't think this is a word - lol) for a prolonged length of time, its atoms are pointing North. Once power is applied, they will align to the new north south potential and from there will stay in that position or near that position depending on the pulsing frequency. And there in is the kick but it's actually a swing. Or call it a Savate. Nice swing kick. lol

The problem with the kick is that once the first kick is done, the following pulses can only hold the same position of the electrons. You would have to pulse for the initial kick, then realign the electrons to their previous position, to then pulse again to get two kicks in a row, and so on.

Now in contrast, referring to my previous post, if you provide the maximum DC that turns the electrons and holds those electrons, and use a degaussing method to reset them, then each pulse will be a real kick.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on December 01, 2009, 04:39:31 PM
Let me just add this post here that I forgot to post a few days ago.

Here is how I visualize the inrush as we call a kick.

Take a compass. Why does the needle point towards the north pole? How can the north pole be so discreet yet strong enough to effect a small needle thousands of miles away, to make it point towards it. So if a compass needle does this, so do all other magnetic components.

Now think of the same compass placed between two small coils that are placed at East and West of the compass and its needle is still pointing north. The West coil has the south pole closest to the compass and the East coil has its north pole closest to the compass. Now energize both coils at the same time. What happens to the compass needle? It now points to the East coil? Now pulse the coils together. What happens to the compass needle. Depending on the pulse frequency it will still point towards the East coil and the faster the frequency, the less movement you will see from the needle.

So the main movement of the needle was when the coils were first energized because the needle that was pointing North, swung hard to the East, then stayed near East according to the pulse frequency.

For me, this is what is happening inside a wire. A compass is just the same as a magnet. All wires have little magnets (atoms) inside them that are all pointing to the dominant field source. In our case, it is the north pole. Applying power to the wire is like giving it a new north and south potential, like the East/West coils. When the wire is not potentialized (don't think this is a word - lol) for a prolonged length of time, its atoms are pointing North. Once power is applied, they will align to the new north south potential and from there will stay in that position or near that position depending on the pulsing frequency. And there in is the kick but it's actually a swing. Or call it a Savate. Nice swing kick. lol

The problem with the kick is that once the first kick is done, the following pulses can only hold the same position of the electrons. You would have to pulse for the initial kick, then realign the electrons to their previous position, to then pulse again to get two kicks in a row, and so on.

Now in contrast, referring to my previous post, if you provide the maximum DC that turns the electrons and holds those electrons, and use a degaussing method to reset them, then each pulse will be a real kick.

This is very good theory! That may explain effects of powering up huge DC Edison generators.And surely also resonance harmonics may be the reason and actual overunity! That's why Tesla made so much make&break controllers - to not suppress harmonics. Now I see that ingenious novelty of TPU is in way of getting out energy from harmonics without disturbing resonance. That we should looking for.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on December 01, 2009, 04:43:08 PM
Funny thing.All we need is a way to test resonant LC circuit on the place above Earth magnetic field.If harmonics are the same and on the same level then I'm wrong , in other case harmonics are interaction from magnetosphere.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on December 01, 2009, 05:01:29 PM
@wattsup

Would this secondary pulse be in the same wire or a overlying wire wound in the same direction but on top of the constant DC wire?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on December 01, 2009, 05:07:27 PM
This is very good theory! That may explain effects of powering up huge DC Edison generators.And surely also resonance harmonics may be the reason and actual overunity! That's why Tesla made so much make&break controllers - to not suppress harmonics. Now I see that ingenious novelty of TPU is in way of getting out energy from harmonics without disturbing resonance. That we should looking for.

i like this aproch ... 


what you mention is reall good info ...

watch ..1   pancake 2...t coil secondary ...  3...... coilssssss  HARMONICS...  ;D ;)

w815

find the harmonics by a neon...   place  coils tuned properly there ... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 th harmonics ...

and do not get hurt!

ill better explain ...  pancake ringgs secondary ...   both equal mass a stout wire and a longgggg wire ..  about the long layed down tesla secondary .. are layed the tuned coils to the harmonics OF THAT 1 SINGLE wire ..   this should not be hard to build nor understand how and why and what is takeing place in such a coil ..

did i have to build it to understand it ... NO    Y ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on December 01, 2009, 05:29:31 PM
What is the relation of resonance and harmonics ? Are there harmonics in phase of resonant frequency or lag behind it ? Does this question have a sense ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on December 01, 2009, 05:33:48 PM
i think b4 an aduquate answer is achieved ...

it is better to understand what resonance is ...

can a KICK FROM 1 SINGLE INPUT OF ENGERY  have harmonics... ? 

 :D

w

now this raises the question what is a tuned kick ...  ?

not 1 kick ...  1 tuned kick ... lol

this is a single kick tuned..  imho

second pic  simi tuned

3rd pic looks tuned .. 

4th pic tuned coil 2 freqs....  ::)

last 1 a single kick .....  :P
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on December 01, 2009, 06:10:13 PM
now what about my 808  ;D ;) 

it has 2 freqs 2 phases of 3 channels each of pnp and npn in sync...

it has to phases so it flip flops FOREVER .. :P :)  imagine ...


now apply what i just told you about what im doing on plannet earth right now..

how about 71 species above .. human heads ...  :) 

808 is BASIC  THE GOLD RING ... A LIGHT YEAR BEOND ...

btw 12 lower are devided from upper ... so when i give this to you you are contained ...  we know where you all are ..  your graduateing ... in order for this go beond ...  ya better quit fighting ...

why did we re incarnate back here ... i just answered you ...  lower 12 above humans are turned off ... no other way to come back in ...

enjoy your most wonderfull gift ... life ..  live it with love!

thank you ...   

i will say this this goes way beond human comprehenction ...

it may be that some harmonics come from the crystal in the diodes...   how ever ...  dont think i had any on those scope shots ...

YOU DO REALIZE RESONANCE ONLY CREATES THE DOOR ... LOL  YOU STILL HAVE TO OPEN AND CLOSE IT ...
y mess around with batteries ...  WHEN THERE UBC'S ULTRA BOOST CAPS ..AKA... ALIEN CAPS...  LOL


well now ya know ...   can you reinstate...  my posting privilages....   ?

anyhow now when  you finally get it ... 0 pattends are gained ...

to my knowalage ... TESLA never built this exact such device ...  so i will call it the IST H.T

I EXPLAIN MY HARMONIC TRANSFORMER DESIGN   and im set to read only ...  hummmmmmm   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on December 01, 2009, 06:21:36 PM
You will find something important here : http://www.dranetz-bmi.com/pdf/harmonicspart3.pdf
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 01, 2009, 08:06:58 PM
@wattsup

Would this secondary pulse be in the same wire or a overlying wire wound in the same direction but on top of the constant DC wire?

I would say all on the same wire because you do not want to rely on any coupling method. You maintain a major stressor on the wire (that is the DC) on the two turn ring. That ring will permeate a field around it that will cover the outer wound control coil simply because of proximity. Now pulse a degaussing frequency into the same ring that has dc on it so the electrons flip back to normal at on, and swing a kick at off.

So instead of switching the main DC line, you maintain a steady DC line and cause a degauss action on it. The DC line always stayed at full potential and does not need to be switched. By doing so, you cause an action on a bigger potential with a smaller potential at the proper frequency.

An example is if you are trying to push a damaged truck up a hill by pushing it in small increments. You can stay behind the truck and push it in small pushes just enough needed to move it one foot at a time up the hill, but each time, you will have to bring your push source back to zero, wait, then start it again, push the truck up higher, then stop again, etc. Or you can put a steady motive force behind it and hop in the driver cab and simply work the brakes. Each time you let go of the brake, you are again at full motive push force, not having to go from zero onwards.

This is only an attempt to "think out of the box".
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on December 01, 2009, 08:58:01 PM
Thank you for dumbing it down for me this makes sence.  This is a very interesting idea and seems easy to test!  Do you have a TPU or something similar to test it on?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 01, 2009, 10:51:23 PM
Thank you for dumbing it down for me this makes sence.  This is a very interesting idea and seems easy to test!  Do you have a TPU or something similar to test it on?

Well I am at work presently but setting this up is very easy so I will try out the idea and let you guys know more about it. Actually I have several FTPU builds now to test out different ideas.

If @Grumpy was around, he would like to know that I tested a toroid speaker magnet with two coils wound over it during the weekend, as per his suggestion. Nothing conclusive yet but some very interesting buzzing sounds, no coil to coil coupling though. Were the hell is @Grumpy and now @Poynt99. WTF is happening on this forum. Guys with years of membership being banned. Wow, will I be next?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on December 01, 2009, 11:39:41 PM
Well I am at work presently but setting this up is very easy so I will try out the idea and let you guys know more about it. Actually I have several FTPU builds now to test out different ideas.

If @Grumpy was around, he would like to know that I tested a toroid speaker magnet with two coils wound over it during the weekend, as per his suggestion. Nothing conclusive yet but some very interesting buzzing sounds, no coil to coil coupling though. Were the hell is @Grumpy and now @Poynt99. WTF is happening on this forum. Guys with years of membership being banned. Wow, will I be next?

Yucca is making a new forum for people that want to learn/teach/test ect...you should ask!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: dankie on December 01, 2009, 11:50:13 PM
Screw that Mr opinion grumpy guy .

@ Least the other peeps are trying stuff , even sptrue has a youtube page and a workbench lol .

Nobody can talk smack without a youtube page and a  workbench .
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on December 01, 2009, 11:52:15 PM
Dankie

I just have to laugh at that one ;D

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 02, 2009, 12:28:45 AM
They come back as newbie lurkers to watch and make a different presentation.

Well I am at work presently but setting this up is very easy so I will try out the idea and let you guys know more about it. Actually I have several FTPU builds now to test out different ideas.

If @Grumpy was around, he would like to know that I tested a toroid speaker magnet with two coils wound over it during the weekend, as per his suggestion. Nothing conclusive yet but some very interesting buzzing sounds, no coil to coil coupling though. Were the hell is @Grumpy and now @Poynt99. WTF is happening on this forum. Guys with years of membership being banned. Wow, will I be next?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on December 02, 2009, 02:20:53 AM

Nobody can talk smack without a youtube page and a  workbench .


YouTube?  Nothing but a bunch of suckerfish in an NSA barrel there.  Every once in a great while you see something real there, and then "poof" it's gone.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: dankie on December 02, 2009, 03:30:39 AM
Thats not true ,  Its never ''poof'' gone , most of the time the user himself tried to add a clout  of mystery to his BS . Show me the last time this happened .

And OFC they are not gonna release all the hidden details on a frikkin video with a shitty cam , scientists dont do that lol , they are gonna tell you in jibberish terms because thats what scientists are like . Its like they are smart and they wanna brag and stuff and they make videos about it , if a scientist really wanted to use all his brain power to release something BIG he would have . But scientists are just a bunch of gay nerds ... yeah it fukkin sucks ...

Youtube is better than the 'typable in 5 mins' opinion of a ?$WTF%% guy on a  reject looking like site .
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on December 02, 2009, 05:24:10 AM
My poynt is that NSA and CIA are all over YouTube.

Post the Holy Grail and get Thor's Hammer for free.  Skype might be next.
 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: innovation_station on December 02, 2009, 02:50:22 PM
well 

guess you all never liked my unit ... hummm

so i built the darn thing :)

lol

i also built a 4 coil inductance offset and mass tuned coils.. tic bang BANG! :) tic bang BANG!

IT RUNS WITH GAIN ...
by virtue of its design .. i collect the FIRST PASSED engery in the output cap ..  when i cut the pulse .. so goes the fly back .. same cap.. there will be 3 bridges... 4 coils and a cap

i used 814 toroide x2 and matched chokes ... 1 " goldmine toroides

my mass of copper 7.3grams .. all =  and wound oppsite dirrections..

maybe you will let me post a picture ...  and it would be nice if they can stay up on the screen!
what is showen is a tuned mass to mass unit!  all coils weigh the exact same..

21 grams...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCLKH4Xm8T0
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 06, 2009, 09:06:31 PM
Well I am in the process of winding a new center toroid.

I have been testing for the last few days with a toroidal speaker magnet with two coils wound on it, and results, although interesting are not what I thought. There is one thing I noticed at around 16mhz I could hear a rumble noise coming out of my computer speakers. That was weird. Also around 12mhz - 16mhz I could see specks on the TV screen. But the funniest effect was that at 1.1 mhz I was getting voltage rise from the outer coil loop and these are not connected to the toroid, so it was from direct either static or other form of induction. Probably the toroid was pulsing at the loops tuned frequency or something like that.

When that happened, I was somehow thinking about @Spherics three bottom coils and one top coil. Now we know that if two identical coils are in proximity to one another, if one is pulsed the other should also get that pulse to a certain degree. So if you have 4 coils identical, and three of them should be pulsed in succession, how is that possible if each coil that is pulsed will send a pulse to the others, or maybe this is what would cause the field to form all around the catching toroid at all times but have a major momentum happening as the actual pulse changes from one coil to the other. Anyways, that's besides the point here so sorry for swaying off.

So I am now making a new toroid using a T-300-26 core and 24 AWG magwire.

I have a question or maybe more of an observation.

Now if you look at the FTPU build, even the toroid coils have relatively few turns, the outer control coil also has not many turns when you consider the number of turns he could have put on them, and, the outer ring only has 2 1/4 turns.

So here is the thing. When making my last build I was looking at the ohm of these coils and they are all near the 1 ohm resistance level. There is basically no resistance anywhere in these coils.

Now even consider the OTPU four windings should again be not more then 1 ohm. We could speculate the same thing for the others TPUs.

So my question, if anyone can shed some light on this, is in EE terms, what is the advantage of having coils at 1 ohm.

Unfortunately I do not have the EE savvy to take that 1 ohm coil and calculate capacitor and other values to make a localized pulsing system at a given or chosen frequency so I am still using my new pulse generator.

But I am thinking there has to be something in the FTPU with some resistance. In the OTPU we could consider the two coils that are located below where the two magnets go to be wound of finer wire with longer length, so their ohm should be higher.

In the FTPU, between the top and bottom layers there is a white coil type component and if I am not mistaken, and looking at the wires visible in that area when looking at it from underneath, I am guessing that that white component is either a simple high induction air coil, or a high induction air coil with a reed contact inside of it. That is the only thing logical I can think of. Once I trace the wires going to that area I will know a little more.

Added: Two images, first of the speaker magnet toroid and second of the T-300 toroid.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 06, 2009, 09:49:42 PM
OK maybe just let me expand on something else while I am winding this toroid.

Basically if the TPU toroid coils only have 1 ohm resistance, that would mean these coils are the equivalent to most all primary windings, so why would you want two primary windings on a toroid, if there is no secondary winding there? That is a bugger of a question. Why the hell do you have two primaries. Some say it is an output voltage smoothing thing but then why would you use such a big smoothing coil for only 60 volts? Does not make sense.

Then consider this. If you look very closely to the center toroid, you will notice that in some places the wire has been embedded into the core, as if the core had a certain level of softness to it and the wire was able to make an indentation. This is impossible if the core was a toroid speaker magnet or a ferrite or iron core. There is no way this is possible.

So now I am thinking maybe I am wasting my time with this new toroid and I should consider making a new toroid but this time, follow what @GK said somewhere else, can't remember, but something about the tpu following Don Smiths design  but instead looking at it sideways and elongating the rings. But I am thinking its not the ring at all.

If the center toroid outer coils are primaries that it stands to reason that inside the toroid, there has to be a secondary. I have already made one like this but the secondary was wound horizontal and the results where not impressive at all.

Now I suspect it should be wound vertical, like the primary is wound vertical.

SM said wind a coil then wind another one over it. I do not think he was talking about the outer coils. He was talking about the toroid. I bet y'a the whole ftpu is one or two Tesla Ozone patent primary/secondary coils wound inside that toroid coil and 90% of the TPUs are the toroids. The rest of the outer control coil and loops are basically used as an output stabilizer taking high voltage from the secondaries of the toroid and compressing out the peak voltages to a level that is more usable.

Tesla did it with a primary over a secondary and both air cores. Don Smith did it this way also, so why not SM also. Hmmmm.

I think I will take a wooden ring, wind two fine wire secondaries of at least 200 turns each, then wind two primaries of about 20 turns each and see how this can fit into an FTPU. That indenting of the wire on SM center toroid did not happen by accident. he could have taken a wooden core, wound a secondary, then covered it all up with an isolating putty type material using a mold, then wound the primary over that and this would then explain the indentations.

The when he made the STPU and 6TPUs, he did not have to use any molding putty because the coils where to be wrapped up in electrical tape so no one could see them.

Yep, if I follow a logical reasoning of the TPUs, this is the next direction I must take. I'll let you guys know more soon once I build a new toroid, but I will not have to use any molding putty since "I have nothing to hide" - lol.




Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on December 06, 2009, 10:09:10 PM
Ahh I thought that Bruce_TPU revealed all TPU details ? What about his thread ? Do we still don't know how TPU is constructed ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on December 06, 2009, 10:25:44 PM
Ahh I thought that Bruce_TPU revealed all TPU details ? What about his thread ? Do we still don't know how TPU is constructed ?

Bruce is still working at his own pace so don't wait on him for any secrets. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 06, 2009, 10:35:14 PM
@forest

I don't know either about @Bruce_TPUs build information since he did not come back yet with an update. The main thing I feel about the three level build is there will be major cancellation problems since all those coils are inter-wound.

As for the SM TPUs, we know many many things about many many parts of the TPUs, and it is simply a question of putting all the pieces together in a workable theory, testing it out, learning from those and then going to the next one. I don't know if there is any other or better way then what we have been doing since how long, i am losing count. But I think I am getting at least close enough to start concentrating on one or two main methods. But I think if my next build gives the results I am expecting, it is really a question of conversion device.

I do know that the coupling effect between the outer control coil and the outer ring is very good for a simply two turn ring with loose control coils.

So basically like this.

The center toroid has one or two hidden secondaries vertical wound and connected in parallel for the two black small wires coming out. The two visible coils is one or two primaries also connected either in bucking mode or parallel with the two white wires coming out. This will be easy to test soon enough.

Using the Tesla Ozone Patent shorting method via a coil of high inductance hidden between both layers, he is hitting the toroid primary and producing a high voltage coming from the toroid secondaries, with one wire going to the top outer control coil and the other wire going to the bottom outer control coil but in reverse pulsing these with around 300 volts. The coupling between the outer control coil and the outer ring is enough to lower the voltage but increase the amperage.

This simple set-up could easily be built into the other TPUs.

Yep, I think I am getting very close and will know soon enough. lol

More soon...........
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 07, 2009, 12:19:53 AM
Stun gun circuit.

The Sauron coil has been modified. It is a Tesla coil. See the mismatched winding on the bottom level?

--Giantkiller.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 12, 2009, 01:58:14 AM
@All

Let's talk about the vacuum tube analogy because I think I figured it out based on my last tests on the outer ring.

A vacuum tube does what and why? You feed 5 volts and get 300 volts output. Imagine the step up transformer you would require to do this. Feed 5, get 300. Feed 5 and the negative cathode gets red hot sending its thermionic electrons off the cathode. The positive potential of the anode plate then attracts these electrons without any resistance, counter field or counter induction and permits 300 volts to exit the tube. WOW. That is great to know.

So what is the parallel to the FTPU. I am talking only about the FTPU but guys that know the other units will make the link. Where can you replicate the tube action without making a vacuum tube device.

Well, according to my testing of several outer ring (OR) and outer control coil (OCC) combinations, I have found something curious.

My testing is generally always the same pattern. I use a pulse generator to pulse the frequency, voltage and duty into the pulsed object, transfer the energy to another object then connect it to my 88mF 1200vdc capacitor (big bugger) via a germanium diode (I formerly used a regular diode but no longer - germanium has a much lower forward bias voltage of only 0.2 volts.) So this set-up is used in all tests for reproducible results, and, I have reproduced them from my notes several times to make sure.

When I use a copper OR or an iron OR with an insulated copper OCC wrapped over it I am always getting not more then 2:1 transfer - at best. Meaning if I am pulsing into the OCC  at 3vdc 10% duty at 2.34mHz (best frequency for this test), I will load my cap tank up to 1.5 vdc. Now when I then pulse the OR and take output from the OCC, hence doing it in reverse, I am getting the same results. Even if I increase the pulse voltage or duty, I am not getting more output. WHY?????????????

I think what is happening is when I am pulsing the OCC, the OR being either copper or iron will build up its own magnetic field and eventually repel any further influence coming from the OCC. There is just so much energy the OR will take before it repels any more energy transfer. That would not be like the vacuum tube anode that does not repel the cathodic energy.

So, I am thinking what can catch and conduct electricity and not produce a magnetic field or at least a minimal magnetic field and it hit me. Aluminum. So I took an aluminum OR of 2 1/4 turns and wrapped a 24awg magwire OCC over it without really caring about the number of turns because for me this is not important at this stage.  The ring turns were kept loose so they do not touch anywhere to another ring turn.

Anyways, I started pulsing in the same way as above and to my surprise, voltage rise with input at 2.34mHz-3vdc-10%duty went to 4.34vdc. I never saw this before. When I temporarily short my cap tank, the voltage rises back up right away so there is no putzing around with 0.01 vdc increases as i have mostly seen with this. And the other way around is the same. This confirms to me that either the TPU OR or OCC cannot be copper or iron. I have not tested with both OR and OCC s non-copper but will try it also. It has to be a metal that conducts electricity but does not build up a magnetic field. This makes perfect sense so the receiver does not hinder the transmitter, so the ring become an energy absorbing device that does not build up a source repelling field and this falls in pretty close to what the vacuum tube is doing.

Now just forget about the voltages. This is only to show how well transfer can occur and making it as transparent as possible. For me this is now clear. The ring can be aluminum, stainless steel may be good also either as the pulsing agent or the receiving agent, does not matter at this point. But copper to copper will not work in the TPU because both have the inherent side issue of their magnetic fields that will repel any maximum transfer potential.

Next is the toroid or cannon to cannon analogy. I need a few more days for this one. lol

So guys, just take any amount of Aluminum wire and wrap 2 1/4 (or more it's up to you) turns, then wrap an outer control coil of any mag wire. Make sure the AL turns do not touch each other and then have some fun. I am adding a picture of my setup showing the way I used the ring also as a stand, a solenoid coil and a capacitor in the middle. Can't wait to hit this with my next center toroid.

Last thing about this is when I tested this, at one point I had my TV on that is about 6 feet away and as the images changed on the tv screen, the oscilloscope waveform changes also. never saw that before. My tests were not influenced by this because my TV was off, but this same coil ring setup is very sensitive to emanations coming from the TV screen and is giving up to 1 volt on the cap tank. Actually that is pretty scary. Slow cooking TV style.

I am also posting a diagram showing the TPU similarities. It does not include the OTPU because I still have misgivings about that demo and still think it was not entirely faked but half faked. I am still concerned that SM showed the voltage but faked the amperage. I think at the time he made that unit he was desperate to show something to his investors and had to make it look real good and convincing. But I do not believe that device worked as he says it does.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on December 12, 2009, 05:47:49 PM
good work wattsup,  aluminum wire hum?  I'll have to try that.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 14, 2009, 05:19:40 AM
@wattsup!
OMG I am the biggest fool!
Bruce-tpu sent me 2 - 15" 3 layer coils this summer.
And guess what? The bigger loops are copper lamp cord and the loosely wound control coils are STEEL! I didn't think I hand anything. Yes, Square pulses and aluminum are a HF mix! I you hit the aluminum with VHF and above the Alum is going to react.

good work wattsup,  aluminum wire hum?  I'll have to try that.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Magluvin on December 14, 2009, 07:13:13 AM
This may not be of concern here, but there were some pro audio speakers, EV, that used aluminum voice coils, but considering the freq Watts is using, maybe its nothing. Also in high tension lines they use aluminum. From what I know, they use it instead of copper for 2 reasons. 1 its cheaper, 2 its lower conductivity does not stand in the way of the high voltage used there. Or is there another reason aluminum is used in these situations. ?
Very cool Watts.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 19, 2009, 10:12:11 AM
@GK

Hope them coils work out.

Here is my new toroid, well my soon to be old toroid because this one is just to learn a few more things about the ftpu. lol

This one is as follows;
Photo #1
3" core T-300-26
Secondary 112 turns each of 24 awg
Secondary wind mode - bucking
0,8 ohms
Photo #2 with transformer wrap.
Photo #3
Primary 32 turns each of 20 awg
Primary wind mode same as secondary
0,3 ohms

But I am already planning my next toroid. It will be aluminum core with one slit cut into it. Each end goes to two of the toroid wires. Then cover with 32 turns x 2 of 20 awg.  If the center toroid did in fact have only those two visible coils, then the core would have to be an aluminum ring with a slit from which you can take aluminum wire that then goes too the outer aluminum rings. Only time will tell. But these are so fun to test out and learn from. That would give non-magnetic toroid core and non-magnetic outer ring. I have to find some aluminum cores. Then paint them white. lol

I need some help with the EE end.
If you have the above coils with their ohms value, can you calculate the capacitor values I would need to pulse this with a transistor or mosfet at 5000 hertz. Eventually I need to not use my pulse generator and make this a stand alone trials.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on December 19, 2009, 01:49:30 PM
Just thinking about the spin up of the compass and coils of high selfinductance and longitudinal waves.  If we induce a voltage into one end of the coil wrapped around the core does a longitudinal wave travel through the copper mass in a given direction.  In other words the coil of highselfinductance is like a pipefilled with electrons. On one end of the pipe we inflict a hammer blow.  The hammer blow creates a shockwave that alternately compresses and rarifies the liquid.  In this case it compresses and rarifies the electron cloud of the coil of high self inductance.  A sound wave travels in a given direction from the input pressure zone around the ring.  The electrons when all compressed up would display a higher net negative charge as compared to the rarified part.  As the wave passes the start point in the ring we wack it again.  Round and round this compression and relaxation of the copper electron cloud goes. The coil of highselfinductance is just an electron cloud scource to pass the longitudinal waves through.  Not from one end of the wire to the other but sideways from turn to turn.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: kooler on December 19, 2009, 03:49:33 PM
Also in high tension lines they use aluminum. From what I know, they use it instead of copper for 2 reasons. 1 its cheaper, 2 its lower conductivity does not stand in the way of the high voltage used there. Or is there another reason aluminum is used in these situations. ?
Very cool Watts.

Magluvin

i torn down a pole transformer once to find no iron or steel...
just to see a alum core rolled like a ac cap.. with high tension on top of alum the low tension on top of that... and then alot of oil...
so i just figured they work on induction..
so you guys might be on to something with the alum..
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 21, 2009, 06:02:23 AM
Well here we go. My latest toroid yellow ferrite core.

Very interesting first test of many many to come. I will have alot of fun with this one but will build another one with a AL core.

What the core has to do is get energized by the primary then die as fast a possible. With the maximum extreme in the core from dead to full sat, the secondary will produce maximum output. You do not need a core that can accumulate saturation. Hence the gain in the TPU cannot occur in the Toroid because as the toroid would increase in gain, the spread between the maximum and minimum saturation point in the core will decrease, and that lowers the efficiency. The ferrite is doing this. It is holding in some of the past pulses. So it does not drop to zero saturation before the next pulse occurs. The Aluminum core should make a big difference since it will always want to go back to zero very fast, faster then ferrite. It just remains to be tested.

The toroid is the wick and the rings are the cannons.

So here is an image of my first test and result.

Pulse generator set at 2500hz, duty 10% at 3 vdc.
Output on the holding cap via a germanium diode is 7.21 vdc.

Already, I have not seen this before. When I short the cap, it goes immediately to 7.21 vdc. No .01 increments.

The scope is at Time/Div 20uS and Volts/Div is 0.5 v

This for me is a good way to start pumping up a TPU. lol

But this is only the toroid connected two primaries parallel and two secondaries parallel. Pulse enters from the left red and black to the primaries. Out is right with diode on negative. Just like this is was getting 4.6 vdc, but then I added another diode between the pulse polarities and it jumped to 7.21 vdc. You can barely see it.

This also works the same in the 5000hz range.

Man am I going to have some fun with this toroid in connecting it in many other ways. This is just the beginning. Then to add the rings and integrate some wiring logic based on the observed FTPU. The target with this one is 60 vdc.

Oh, bringing up the pulse voltage did not increase the output but lowered it.

Do you know what you can do with 7 vdc. I need a coil of high induction, two aluminum rings with 42 turns each stranded copper.

More soon.......

Added. My setup below is very similar to the Cook coils just a different wiring. Eventually, I will try mine with this wiring and see what happens.

@otto

Try putting a diode across your pulse source.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on December 21, 2009, 06:54:56 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

I dont need a diode, not caps, not resistors.....nothing.

It seems that you have fun with your coils but ..... Aluminium??? Very bad option as a core!

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 22, 2009, 07:18:04 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

I dont need a diode, not caps, not resistors.....nothing.

It seems that you have fun with your coils but ..... Aluminium??? Very bad option as a core!

Otto

@otto

That is great to not need anything, I guess except coils.

I will let you know about the aluminum, once it is done and tested.

Keep well.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 24, 2009, 05:25:10 AM
Well here we go again.

I am now starting the FTPU build tests slowly but surely.

The image below shows something out of the ordinary.

If I put that led directly onto the pulse generator at its setting of 10% Duty, 1.5vdc @90khz, the led will not light up at all. Nothing.

When I put the led on the output of Test 2 trial, it lights up plus the voltage also shows a 1.9 vdc maintained in the cap. This I have never seen before.

Also, trying to find a way to make the scope stay put so I can take a photo but it is very difficult. The frequency changes like a never ending wave shift slowly one way. As I catch it, it changes again.

The center toroid primary gets the positive pulse on one side to both primaries, the two negatives then go to each side of the outer ring and the negative pulse from the generator is at the center of the ring (or near - lol). The toroid secondaries are paralleled, one side going to the cap tank via a germanium diode, the other side going to the outer ring then to the other side of the cap tank.

This is crazy because the speed of pulsing is sooooo high now, much higher then the 90k pulse frequency and it shifts so I cannot catch it as a stable scope shot. Weird.

My next Trial will be with two rings and control coils. Then I will have to integrate a coil of high induction. Then the fun should really start.

wattsup

PS: The universal knowledge fills you all.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 24, 2009, 05:40:52 AM
This is what I have been saying about the relation between the blotch wall in the primary and the ring polarity.

The ring is getting the negative of the primary and the negative of the pulse generate, so the ring, for all intents and purposes is negative. But then where is the rings blotch wall. It is inside the primary. lol

This is what I am trying to explain of the required imbalance. If the ring does not have a blotch wall, it can only have one polarity. By using the primary blotch, this makes the ring one polarity, not two.

Now I will try it with two rings and two control coils. It will simply use the same set-up but separate the two primary negatives, one to each ring and then they come together to the negative of the pulse generator. Then on the secondary of the toroid, each coil will go through its own or opposite control coil then go to the output cap.

More fun to come.........
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 24, 2009, 05:56:10 AM
OK, so here is a question for the EE guys cause I don't have the know how to calculate this or make a good circuit.

My toroid primaries are .3 ohm each. How can I take a 1.5 volts dc battery and have it pulse 10% duty at 90khz. That will be my starting point for getting this to start without a pulse generator.

Can someone please please please draw me a 3-4 component (not more) circuit with values, Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on December 24, 2009, 06:38:00 AM
   Love the geometry of those coils.  Torroids making mushroom clouds.  Merry xmas.
The wavelengths are synchronizing here on ou at least for me.  Angry scientist just put up this picture in the Tesla Tech topic   The other one is a little magnetic reconnect avatar of another board member.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 24, 2009, 06:50:42 AM
That is why I posted this vid... Same thing you explained.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C1uicaW7Ms (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C1uicaW7Ms)
And there are other vids from last summer with same thing. I put in 43k and -6mhz out.


Also, trying to find a way to make the scope stay put so I can take a photo but it is very difficult. The frequency changes like a never ending wave shift slowly one way. As I catch it, it changes again.


This is crazy because the speed of pulsing is sooooo high now, much higher then the 90k pulse frequency and it shifts so I cannot catch it as a stable scope shot. Weird.


wattsup

PS: The universal knowledge fills you all.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: nitinnun on December 24, 2009, 12:24:13 PM



has anyone tried to use sound,
as the source of high frequency,
instead of using electricity,
as the source of high frequency ?



sound is likely easier to create,
than electricity.

if a materials natural properties,
produce the high frequency sound,
than wouldn't that be profoundly easy and simple ?


Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on December 24, 2009, 01:37:56 PM
   Transverse emwaves are the children of the longitudinal wave.  Compression happens to the space in between mass.  Vacuum fluctuations if you will.  We call these vacuum flutuations magnetism.  If the vacuum fluctuations happen in a field where there is charged mass free to respond to the new vacuum state then we get electrical phenomenon or charge seperation arising from the inertial response of charged mass to a changing vacuum state.  How is a transverse em wave able to travel through a vacuum?  Because it is altering the vacuum state as it goes along. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 24, 2009, 04:41:26 PM
I managed to catch this image of one of the waveforms. It seems that as I switch from on frequency range to another on my scope, the wave form does not get wider or thinner but it changes, as if each frequency range is discovering a new wave form. I will need to understand this interplay better.

But trying to get a stable waveform on the scope is next to impossible. I had to take the camera in my left hand ready to shoot and with my right hand adjust the scopes variable adjustment to stop it enough to grab the shot.

Anyways, if anyone can help on the circuit I need above I would greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 26, 2009, 07:05:45 PM
@All

A few people have emailed me asking the precise wiring of the above Test #2 given my photo shows a missmash of wires. Since I am rather bad with classical circuit designs, also not knowing how to show four coils on a toroid, I made the diagram below to show the wind direction and turn amounts, etc.

In this particular set-up, there is a very high rate of overlapped currents that is very difficult to see with the scope as a steady wave form.

If you take the two primary outputs and put them together to one end of the ring, and then simply put the negative of the pulse to the other side of the ring, this makes one waveform that is easy to see but the results are more pulse driven and less recirculating driven.

I will try it now with a second ring and also with stranded copper rings to make the comparisons. I will put up a new diagram when that has been tested.

Within these variations, I believe the TPU base function is hidden.

With the one ring diagram I am making good multiple frequencies with one pulse source. Now with the second ring I will try and make the two multiple frequency rings collide at a given point and see what happens and can the voltage rise higher.

More soon.......
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: FatBird on December 27, 2009, 12:04:15 AM
GREAT Drawing Wattsup, and Thank you for sharing that.

However may I humbly say that I do NOT see any Circular Wires on any of SM's TPUs.  Please take a look and see what you think.

=======================================

I still see 4 Separate Coils on SM's TPUs.  My Wild Speculation is that your Iron Core Toroid goes between them.  For example, my WILD theory is that TPU Coils 1 and 3 are in series, as well as 2 and 4.  Then I speculate that your Toroid Coils should connect between them.

That way your Toroid Xfmr PHASE SHIFT will ROTATE the TPU Fields respectively.  The Applied Driving Waveform can be applied across Coils 1 and 3, OR across Coils 2 and 4.  The 4 TPU windings AND the Toroid windings are all IN SERIES as a CLOSED LOOP.  Of course a Collector Winding will need to be added all the way around the TPU to HARVEST the Power.  Please see my drawing below.  A DIODE that can handle 5 or 6 AMPS WILL HAVE TO BE ADDED in series with the TPU Coils to make sure the TPU can only rotate in 1 Direction.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 27, 2009, 12:51:26 AM
@FatBird

Very good questions.

The FTPU center toroid is also seen in the OTPU right behind the circuit board. You can see it on the photos you just posted.

Extrapolating the FTPU top outer control coil which is wound all the way around the top ring, equals two of the coils wound in the OTPU. The FTPU bottom outer control coils equals the other two coils in the OTPU.

The main difference in both these units is the outer rings. In the FTPU each level has its own ring with around 2 14 turns, but in the OTPU, SM is using the bottom disk as the ring since the two coil sets are on the same ring. I would elaborate that the bottom ring has a slip or cut in it and they are probably meeting right under the back end where there is something taped between the two disks. His is basically putting one wire on each end of the cut on the disk to use the disk like a heavy conductor. I would say the disk is aluminum since if it was iron, he would not have been able to handle it like he did.

In the LTPU, all you have in the outer core is a top and bottom ring with control coils wrapped around each. Just think of the LTPU like a huge FTPU.

Put it this way. In the FTPU, how would you hold the outer ring/controls in place if you did not have a wire spool to mount everything on. Chances are you would make a large circular form of a light but good material and put one ring on top and the other ring on the bottom then tape over it all to keep everything in place. The FTPU is the basic design, the OTPU is a different variation, but then the STPU, 6TPU and LTPU follow along the FTPU design.

The only other question is the center toroid is not visible in the STPU and 6TPU. He could have used the same FTPU toroid and put it inside the outer core, like he hid the toroid in the OTPU behind the circuit board. This means to me that the center toroid physical placement is not critical and could be located anywhere in a build.

But again this is all to our best observations and logical reasoning plus a whole slew of tests that are not finished yet. I will know more soon.......
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: miroslav on December 27, 2009, 03:05:35 PM
@wattsup
what you think about this

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 27, 2009, 04:05:37 PM
@miroslav

For the toroid you were not that far away. Please see first and second images below.

About the transistor and capacitor, that is very interesting observation and I would have to look at it more closely to consider. But I will keep it in mind, thank you.

The third image is just to show the three points on the OTPU that touch the table, left leg, back leg and the circuit board. Also to show there is no right leg under the right magnet placement location.

Added:

Since the circuit board is acting as the third leg and it is longer then the two other legs (left leg and back leg) you can see the OTPU is balancing on the longer leg in the last image/animation. Sorry about the animation is not that good.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: miroslav on December 27, 2009, 11:07:02 PM
ok wattsup thanks  :)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on December 28, 2009, 03:06:11 AM
Hi there, i did tonns of research about Tpu And steven mark,
And it came out that Steven may Stealed this technology from other inventors...such as NIKOLA TESLA

ok, it came out for me that most of these conversion devices work on the same principle, all of the MEGS,
But they only look&constructed Differently,

So i have started to look for these things and the puzzple pieces are slowly coming together,
i have read some of the questions and replies from Steven mark on some site,

Jack Durban Said he used a TUNED TANK CIRCUIT,
which consist of an inductor and a capacitor
that is the toroidal core connected with the capacitor to make a tuned resonant circuit
-----------------------------
This system is Started By two magnets WHICH ARE RELEASING MAGNETO STATIC ENERGY or its been put there as to act as a reed switch to confuse the people so they cant replicate it

magneto static energy is is Re- and de- magnetizing the magnet so it can release its continous power by changing the poles. but the magnet does not loose its strenght because two systems have been connected together and the energy released is also fed back to the system
Reference: search Arpad Boday on  www.ipexl.com

check this video out as well,
link:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMq657dgYT4&feature=player_embedded

website:     http://freeenergygroup.com/

now here is a patent from NIKOLA TESLA:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/0381970.pdf

which is said to be very very very very very very related to TPU :)


i hope we will suceed,  Things do have to change on planet earth,


Love and light to all of you!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on December 28, 2009, 05:44:15 AM
  This was early Tesla.  This is a motionless induction generator.  SM took this concept but instead of using iron which is ferromagnetic he used copper which is nonmagnetic.  Then replace the generator with capacitors but delay the tank onset of the ringing in each tank by whatever electrical degrees creates a rotating magnetic field.  Put a copper winding inside and turn what is normally eddy currents through a lamination stack into usable currents to drive lightbulbs.  The tanks will need to be magnetically resonant with the ability of the ambient magnetic field to act as a restorative force in each tank.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 28, 2009, 06:07:08 PM
Leedskalnin did the same technique but across the castle grounds.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wings on December 28, 2009, 10:18:55 PM
testatika  linden experiment and magnet device???

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wings on December 29, 2009, 12:19:51 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYoOCclXpYg

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 29, 2009, 09:00:40 PM
@all

So, I now have a very good way of biasing the ring to complete negative or positive potential. But what I have learned so far is the ring/cc pair offers a very fast repetitive action on the single pulse frequency of the toroid primaries/secondaries. So fast I cannot catch it on the scope because it is always changing. It will be interesting when I add the second ring.

One side note has been bugging me for a while now. I do not remember SM ever talking either directly or via a specific analogy, about his center toroid. So plain in sight are his toroids, but never a peep of discussion. So hidden and cloaked are his rings, and all his emphasis is on the rings. Blah Blah Blah. And, we never saw under the center toroid so there could be four more wires going out from the bottom as from the top.

Imagine if 90% of the TPU action was actually occuring in the toroid as shown by his amperage readings, and not one word about it in all his talks. Why do you think this is so. It is as if he is saying, "hey dumb ass, concentrate on the rings so there is no way in hell you will really discover this in a million years, that is if you do not solve the center toroid build, but I will never talk about that to anyone." So much so that he did not mind openly showing the outer rings in the FTPU and OTPU but again, not talk about the toroid. We have all this talk and talk but nothing on the toroid, even though it jumps out at you in most of his builds. lol

Now consider that little amount of coil turns in his toroid, even in bucking mode, over such a big toroid core mass is just simply insane. If you needed the toroid just for power smoothing, you could have done it much better with one that is 1/4 the size at the highest watts ratings. So I am sure the toroid is more then it is.

I have tested with a 1 layer secondary and one layer primary x 2. But now I realize the secondary just does not have enough winds to catch all the juice being thrown around and re-wizzed around by the ring/cc pair. So I now know you need more layers, but not in series, in parallel to increase the amperage. Or some series, then parallel.

So consider also when you look very close-up to his toroid primary winding, some of the turns are actually being embedded into the core at some places you can see only half of the wire on the surface of the core. That would be impossible with a ferrite or aluminum core. So now I know the core under the primary is an epoxy filler material. But what is inside the core. Then consider that the more secondary layers you have, the more amperage or voltage you can draw from the secondaries.

So consider this then. I take a small 2 1/2" diameter toroid core of let's say 1/4" squared. Over this I wind 6 layers of 600 strand litz wire, making two nice secondaries. With the litz wire in place, it will be impossible to now wind the primary over it because the litz is to soft and will not be able to support the stress of the thicker primary winds. So what do I do??????????? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Let me think and think and think again. I got it. I take this core and secondaries, parallel each end of the secondaries to get four wires out, two comming out the top and two from the bottom. I then take the toroid and put it into a slightly bigger toroidal mold that has a good expoxy material in it and pour the rest on top and this makes the toroid now look just like a simple core. Then I wind my primaries and with the four wires, I exit two from the top and two from the bottom.

Bingo, I now have a damn good toroid that looks just like SMs. Plus, with so many insulated wires in the litz winds all in parallel, this gives me maximum sensitivity of the coil to pickup very low voltages to start with and very high voltages to end with. Plus all I need is a 1 amp rating as the maximum.

Just some stuff I think about while doing more tests.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Spider on December 29, 2009, 11:31:22 PM
Hi Wattsup,

Did you ever read this: http://www.rexresearch.com/szili/szili.htm   


Spider


Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on December 30, 2009, 12:21:12 AM
Hi Wattsup,

Did you ever read this: http://www.rexresearch.com/szili/szili.htm   


Spider

The problem is that so far nobody managed to replicate the effect he experienced once and only once in his lab about a decade ago and since then he's  been using circuit simulator to "get" overunity...  unfortunately.

Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on December 30, 2009, 01:03:08 AM
@all

So, I now have a very good way of biasing the ring to complete negative or positive potential. But what I have learned so far is the ring/cc pair offers a very fast repetitive action on the single pulse frequency of the toroid primaries/secondaries. So fast I cannot catch it on the scope because it is always changing. It will be interesting when I add the second ring.

One side note has been bugging me for a while now. I do not remember SM ever talking either directly or via a specific analogy, about his center toroid. So plain in sight are his toroids, but never a peep of discussion. So hidden and cloaked are his rings, and all his emphasis is on the rings. Blah Blah Blah. And, we never saw under the center toroid so there could be four more wires going out from the bottom as from the top.

Imagine if 90% of the TPU action was actually occuring in the toroid as shown by his amperage readings, and not one word about it in all his talks. Why do you think this is so. It is as if he is saying, "hey dumb ass, concentrate on the rings so there is no way in hell you will really discover this in a million years, that is if you do not solve the center toroid build, but I will never talk about that to anyone." So much so that he did not mind openly showing the outer rings in the FTPU and OTPU but again, not talk about the toroid. We have all this talk and talk but nothing on the toroid, even though it jumps out at you in most of his builds. lol

Now consider that little amount of coil turns in his toroid, even in bucking mode, over such a big toroid core mass is just simply insane. If you needed the toroid just for power smoothing, you could have done it much better with one that is 1/4 the size at the highest watts ratings. So I am sure the toroid is more then it is.

I have tested with a 1 layer secondary and one layer primary x 2. But now I realize the secondary just does not have enough winds to catch all the juice being thrown around and re-wizzed around by the ring/cc pair. So I now know you need more layers, but not in series, in parallel to increase the amperage. Or some series, then parallel.

So consider also when you look very close-up to his toroid primary winding, some of the turns are actually being embedded into the core at some places you can see only half of the wire on the surface of the core. That would be impossible with a ferrite or aluminum core. So now I know the core under the primary is an epoxy filler material. But what is inside the core. Then consider that the more secondary layers you have, the more amperage or voltage you can draw from the secondaries.

So consider this then. I take a small 2 1/2" diameter toroid core of let's say 1/4" squared. Over this I wind 6 layers of 600 strand litz wire, making two nice secondaries. With the litz wire in place, it will be impossible to now wind the primary over it because the litz is to soft and will not be able to support the stress of the thicker primary winds. So what do I do??????????? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Let me think and think and think again. I got it. I take this core and secondaries, parallel each end of the secondaries to get four wires out, two comming out the top and two from the bottom. I then take the toroid and put it into a slightly bigger toroidal mold that has a good expoxy material in it and pour the rest on top and this makes the toroid now look just like a simple core. Then I wind my primaries and with the four wires, I exit two from the top and two from the bottom.

Bingo, I now have a damn good toroid that looks just like SMs. Plus, with so many insulated wires in the litz winds all in parallel, this gives me maximum sensitivity of the coil to pickup very low voltages to start with and very high voltages to end with. Plus all I need is a 1 amp rating as the maximum.

Just some stuff I think about while doing more tests.

Interesting take on the  puzzle here.

I wonder, In your opinion, could the visible  winds on the the centre torroid be multiple, individual segments of fine wire?
They do look embedded but also seem to be flat like litz with no binding..
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on December 30, 2009, 04:04:56 AM
i have noticed a small hole in the toroid where he place the magnet, or i see it wrong, anyway if there is a hole on the toroid, i know whats going on here:)


http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20060163971.pdf

I found a Patent of extracting energy from permament magnets...
A solid-state electrical generator including at least one permanent magnet, magnetically coupled to a ferromagnetic core provided with at least one hole penetrating its volume. the hole(s) and magnet(s) being placed such that the hole(s) penetrating the ferromagnetic core's volume intercept flux from the permanent magnet(s) coupled into the ferromagnetic core. A first wire coil is wound around the ferromagnetic core for the purpose of moving the coupled permanent magnet flux within the ferromagnetic core. A second wire is routed through the hole(s) penetrating the volume of the ferromagnetic core, for the purpose of intercepting this moving magnetic flux, thereby inducing an output electromotive force. A changing voltage applied to the first wire coil causes coupled permanent magnet flux to move within the core relative to the hole(s) penetrating the core volume, thus inducing electromotive force along wire(s) passing through the hole(s) in the ferromagnetic core.

I think Steven Combines this with capturing the torsion field,

Steven marks first device in my eyes:

1. Toroid with one or more holes made as a Tuned Tank Circuit,  to act like a self running micro tpu
see http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1815461677597553845&ei=S6c6S_aPDs6z-AbGhuAc&q=tpu&hl=en&view=3#

2. three resonant coils- 1. is in the middle of the device where part of the electricity comes out which is combined with a capacitor resistor when its on a load as seen on a youtube video , 2 lower and upper to the first coil in the middle which captures the torsion field connected with the toroid in a complex interconnection with capacitor,

in my opinion this acts like a magnifying glass,
and there is no need for input power




I have to try this idea, because we never know...
i wasnt there when Sm made the device.. soo

Im not an electrical engineer as im still 17, 
but I will allways share my idea with others maybe its working maybe not ..

This is what im gonna try on the pic, there are many things missing on it, but i just wanted to share..:)
Love and light to all
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 30, 2009, 04:53:04 AM
No magnetic metal anywhere in the tpu.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on December 30, 2009, 08:04:28 AM
Hello all,

@GK

why not?

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on December 30, 2009, 08:09:34 AM
@GK

Ok then tell me did he use Velcro to stick the magnets on?

Mark
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on December 30, 2009, 10:45:02 AM
I think our guesses looks still like an ancients speculations about power of TV set .  :(
We can't understand TPU without understanding method of power production used.
The obvious thing for me is the usage of curious oscillator - instead of producing EM waves it produce pure magnetic ripple on already available field - Earth magnetic field.
IMHO This is the essence of all OU devices using so called "radiant energy"
How to made such oscillator is another thing.Surely no undulations or alternations can exists in such oscillator , because those are producing electric field in space around antenna.
The rest is mystery for me...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on December 30, 2009, 03:43:31 PM
No magnetic metal anywhere in the tpu.

The toroid itself made of a high magnetic permability material,
i think there is much more iron in it then we think...
I know its working with induction, but look at tesla's invention there from 1888,that is kind of similar to this, nobody tried to use iron at all here??
since you dont see inside the machine, you dont know whats in it..
we have to test it, and with each test we are geting closer to the thing...

best wishes
Sumermagor
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 30, 2009, 06:29:03 PM
I know that was a change from my previous beginnings. So I will explain.

The GK4 was iron core bundles.

Seems as though in following Tesla's timeline he did start out with iron. He eventually ended with air core and more anomolous effects. I have gone down the same road and not by my own accord but by the proddings of others here. Spherics, Grumpy, Marco, Erfinder, Armagedn03, Bolt, Dollard, Smith all stated things that made me realize to increase the magnetic field in air, which performs very nicely for these previously mentioned men of great renown. No?
Then do this test: Take two rat shack spools, side by side, air core. Frequency pulse one, scope the other. you can see the other spool echo nicely. Stick some iron in it. Signal goes away. Where did it go? Trapped in the iron as magnetic current just like Leedskalinin said. How do we get it 'All' back out. If you wrap towels around a bell and ring it you get the same effect. How do you get the dampened sound out with removing the towels? You don't, due to losses.

Bolt uses Balun:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4299.msg199482#msg199482

Spherics uses angular themis:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4297.msg83207#msg83207

Giantkiller & InnovationStation use heterodyning:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3354.msg51015#msg51015

These all rely on spin yet gotten in different ways.

The ECD had no iron in it.

Now what is interesting is the picture that sumermagor posted. If you look at it correctly you see 2 Telsa coils sharing the same secondary. An inverse of the Smith / Dollard tube coil. Their coil configuration is one primary sharing 2 secondaries in that the secondaries are inducted in opposite directions.

See?

--giantkiller. This site is full of OU insights.

p.s. If you need something deeper then : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX_is9LzFSY&feature=pyv&ad=3733077171&kw=you%20tube%20calculus&gclid=CJXGzIzj_p4CFQIhDQoduzKVMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX_is9LzFSY&feature=pyv&ad=3733077171&kw=you%20tube%20calculus&gclid=CJXGzIzj_p4CFQIhDQoduzKVMA)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on December 31, 2009, 02:46:40 AM
im going to post some ideas im going to experiment with, i dont stick around with one, i try hundreds, never know whats gonna happen Next. try it out,

I have toooonnnns of ideas in my head, and im very happy to share them

love and light to all.
Sumermagor
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on December 31, 2009, 06:08:22 AM
www.bibhasde.com  ;)  8)

You know what to do...

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on December 31, 2009, 05:51:10 PM
Interesting take on the  puzzle here.
I wonder, In your opinion, could the visible  winds on the the centre torroid be multiple, individual segments of fine wire?
They do look embedded but also seem to be flat like litz with no binding..

@Mannix

I agree with you fully that the toroid winds may visually differ from one unit to the other, even giving a litz effect, but after looking again at all of them as best as possible I am inclined to think they are all the same. The smoothing surface effect is really due to the limitations or angle of the video camera mixed with the winds being embedded in the core material.

I have put the toroid images below from each TPU for comparison except that of the STPU for obvious reasons. lol

@sumermagor

Good job on your diagram. Easy to understand. It's good to think out of the box. Regarding the outer ring windings as quads, I do not see the evidence of this in the devices. Also that coil between levels is another question mark. But it is a very good idea.

But as with everything we postulate, testing is the best method. My last image is of my present tests with two copper rings. Not very far from your diagram. I wanted to test variables of this with two copper rings before I make two aluminum rings. So far one aluminum outer ring is giving best results. But there are many configurations to test before you can make any final judgment, and even then, there are so many other variable to consider that we are really taking shots in the dark.

The way I try to approach this challenge is, I have a theory of operation coming from all outer influences or from my own knowledge integration process, I post it here giving reasons and relating to the physical parts of the device. I then do tests to find out how that theory can HOLD or NOT HOLD. If it holds, fine, if not, drop it and pass to another. There should be no need for anyone here to be right or wrong. There is no right and wrong. There is only tested and not tested, built and not built, and the results thereof speak for themselves. If you put your ego aside, then all that's left is your desire to learn more and more. Wrong or right, you learn both ways and changing your mind is not a sign of weakness but openness to learn more.

Given all that based on this final day of the 2009, I would like to not wish, (because wishing is not a positive but a totally negative reinforcement of what you do not have and is a way for the knowers to keep the unknowers in bondage - When you wish upon a star - beware), but categorically state THANKS TO THE UNIVERSAL POWER FOR GIVING EVERYONE A FANTASTIC 2010 FULL OF BOUNTY, JOY, SUCCESS AND LOVE, IN A JUST AND PERFECT MANNER.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on December 31, 2009, 09:55:05 PM
hey, here is another one i made up,  There is more can be done to it, electric components etc
but, Share Share Share, Love Love Love,
Happy new year!
Sumermagor
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on January 01, 2010, 12:07:07 AM
Happy New Year guys and gals!
May we understand the TPU in 2010 as never before.
EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on January 01, 2010, 12:52:30 AM
there is no hope,
IT IS A POSITIVVE FACT THAT WE WILL SUCEED VERY VERY SOON!!!!
 :D ;) :)
HAPPY NEW YEAR AND MUCH LOVE TO EVERYONE!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 01:03:26 AM
Those white deals look like highfrequency autotransformer cores.  See how they are squared off.  This is so a brush can ride around to divide the primaries from the secondaries.  I knew I had seen them before. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on January 01, 2010, 02:54:53 AM
@sparks

Please elaborate a bit more. Do you mean like the core they put in rheostats.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 03:29:32 AM
   It doesnt choke off voltage like a resistor it transforms the current like a joule thief.  You can modify the ratio  of turns in the primary by moving the dial on the autotransformer.  So it can be used in buck mode to lower the voltage to the load or the boost mode to raise the voltage to the load.  Highfrequency ones use an iron ceramic combination.  Could act as a variable inductor and I can vaguely remember seeing these on the back of old tv set picture tubes.  The wires potted inside lead me to believe SM was using them as a highfrequency transformer.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on January 01, 2010, 03:39:49 AM
Exactly! Steven Mark was at home in televisions, some of hes idea comes from there ;)
The thing is that you need to use your intuition sometimes, not the human intellectual mind, to get the good ideas...

Sometime i have dreams when im in a sleeping state and i make 100% working Ideas,
Lets concentrate on TPU in our dreams,
FOR HUMANITY!

Love and light to all!
Sumermagor
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: agentgates on January 01, 2010, 01:32:58 PM
Hi All,

Did anybody look the thing from the angle of diamagnetism? As I think this is the reason of the thick copper around the perimeter. Copper has strong diamagnetic properties besides a relatively cheap and good conductor. That is why I think Tesla and SM preferred it.

For those who don't yet look into diamagnetism:
You get a copper tube with thick wall (I mean THICK), erect it and drop a strong disk magnet into it - possibly 2-3mm smaller diameter than the copper tube's internal diameter - then the magnet will reach the end slowly. You can do the same thing with a thick copper bar if you tilt it and drop a magnet on the top, it will slowly glide down over the copper's surface.

SM and Tesla perhaps used the external coils to preserve the created magnetic poles over certain segments and moved it to other non-magnetised segments of the copper ring. Therefore if you know that how to connect the wires wrapped around the thick copper you can preserve a rotating magnetic field initiated by e.g. a high voltage spike.

Kind Regards
Tony

PS: If you're interested I can upload videos tomorrow as I exceeded my data allowance and will be zeroed tomorrow. (~12 hours to that :) )
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on January 01, 2010, 01:45:37 PM
I was thinking .... You know why TPU may be so hard to replicate ? Because it is only a transformer , the input force is made in other place, TPU is only converting it into stronger "current" to feedback to input.
GK, good point about torroids !

It is probably very simple : a source of special etheric force,the transformer to enlarge it ,feedback loop to source , kind of current and heat limiter and the output of course.Actually TPU shape may depend only on Tesla torroid transformer idea.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: agentgates on January 01, 2010, 01:51:16 PM
Another thing I noticed. In SM's demonstration (I don't know what id you use for that TPU here) when he inverses the device and turnes it back at 2:10 a few frames after clearly shows that 3 thick copper wire come to the topside disk in 90 degrees offset to each other. Therefore I presume that there is another on the opposite side covered by the medium section plastic tube.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on January 01, 2010, 02:17:45 PM
i see what you mean on Diamagnetism, we need tests,
The strongest Diamagnetic stable element in the periodic table is Bismuth,
It also emits some alpha particle radiation,
I have half a kilogramm of that, might try something with it,

And Yeh The thing is, it is 1000% very simple, but its very tricky ;)

There are always things that are the most easiest but in some case the most hardest to replicate,
But i have actually found a way now, im going to draw diagrams again,

My idea is Sm using Multiple Induction coils... not 1 not 2 but more possibly many many layers, Like NIKOLA TESLA did back in 1888, You can see how many layers of copper wire he used as the outer cores,
to understand this please check this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMq657dgYT4&feature=player_embedded

I think this is the technology he used, capturing the torsion field with multiple resonant coils,
VERY SIMPLE
i think this is the way to go, since that LED lights up from Nowhere, i think Sm used many coils to wind up in a core in the middle, and connected them with diodes to make The flow of electrons in one direction.
then the two resonant coils upper and down side were focusing that torsion field in one direction and that is in the MIDDLE COILS.
and the toroids could be there to make usable electricity, there could be a high frequency pattern ((using small electric components)) set up in there
Im going to do a clear Experimentation with photos, so if the idea works, we got it.

We have to be open To everything Since we dont see behind the things,
I allways say LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!:)
Best wishes
Sumermagor
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on January 01, 2010, 02:40:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xF1Fq2wB1I&feature=related
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: agentgates on January 01, 2010, 03:29:45 PM
The strongest Diamagnetic stable element in the periodic table is Bismuth

That is true - one of my favourite elements - but if you have a crystal cluster it won't work and don't ruin that. You need a THICK bar or tube. The same or similar effect you'll get than at the Meisner-effect with a superconductor. Search on youtube with "bismuth levitating" or so.

Quote from: sumermagor
My idea is Sm using Multiple Induction coils... not 1 not 2 but more possibly many many layers, Like NIKOLA TESLA did back in 1888, You can see how many layers of copper wire he used as the outer cores,
to understand this please check this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMq657dgYT4&feature=player_embedded

I have seen this before, but this is actually an antenna tuned to 50 or 60Hz with low output current. SM's devices give high current.

I popped in with diamagnetism as I have seen a HUGE copper bar bent into a "C" shaped curve on one of Don Smith's devices and remember what SM said about the THICK copper collector coil. I've got copper bars on the loft I'll bring them down and play around with that.

[off]Bismuth is also the best Hall-effect semiconductor that changes it's resistance in magnetic field. That is what I use it for.[/off]
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on January 01, 2010, 04:54:30 PM
I think we have to work together rather then alone in SM's case, it would be good if we set up a group, and every member experiment with different techniques,  and each time somebody done an experiment and it is not working we would tick one square out, so next time others dont waste their time with it. by this we are closing the ''not working'' and opening the door faster to the solution
and everybody would have contact in skype or something,

anybody say good idea?

best wishes
SM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: agentgates on January 01, 2010, 05:09:24 PM
@Supermagor

The guys here were doing it this way over the years. I worked independently from them but sometimes I popped in to see what's going on. There is also a topic somewhere where they posted what has been tried already.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 06:19:46 PM
  Tesla used pitchblende on the surface of his insulated pipes down in the ground on his transmitter in New Jersey.
He needed to ionize the air down there to form a superconductor between the pipes and the Earth.  Only superconductors that are remotely affordable are plasmas.  Copper is a negative plasma but still has alot of problems with electrons going the wrong way due to their magnetic dipole moments interacting with the neuclear dipole moments.  Thermal agitation of the copper mass creates this resistance and why copper needs to be supercooled to act as a decent electron conduit.  Pitchblende contains radioactive decaying elements when electromagnetically stimulated will produce fast particles which will induce ionization of air.  The subsequent superconducter is like filling the tunnels Tesla made down in the ground with supercooled copper.  Tesla was really ingenious. 

   Below is what I feel Tesla was doing along with SM with copper mass.  By first creating a longitudinal sound wave within the stout copper bar attached to capacitor plates acting as electrostatic speakers.  Then by delaying the feed to one of the capacitor by use of either a piece of steel or a choke the standing wave appears to move.  This would be the introduction of a frequency of the same root but at a different time within the same resonant cavity.  This causes the nodes to move within the resonant cavity.  The nodes and antinodes appear to oscillate within the copper mass and the wave appears to travel.  The load is capacitavely coupled to fixed positions on the waveguide and will see voltage changes depending on the passage of the nodes and antinodes which alternately charge and discharge the load plates.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on January 01, 2010, 07:58:19 PM
Wow, that midnight champagne really got to my brain, especially since I am not used to drinking. lol

Guys have some good points on the table. I don't know how to look at it all. Usually when postulating a TPU theory, it is very useful to describe function but to also point to the actual physicals of the known TPUs in order to make the theory to device link, otherwise we are left open to grand misunderstandings.

@sparks

I like the theory in general but, I think first and foremost, pitch was used on the grounding rods or pipes as a fast hardening and durable insulator, since those rods or pipes have to be insulated for the earth surrounding them. Looking at your drawing, it would seem to me that your complexity level is a good 8 of 10, when the SM TPUs should not be more then a 4 or 5. That's the way I try to keep things real when looking at ideas. SM was not a rocket scientist. He found one anomaly which is a great achievement during any one persons lifetime, maybe two anomalies at best would be considered rather exceptional. He took that and applied it in varying forms, but always keeping to the base function.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you, @sparks, can get such a device idea to pan out into a working device, then in my book you would be considered an SM times 10 given the level of complexity.

Re: @EMs video

Yes we have seen that video when he made it and it is discussed on another thread.

Don't forget that @EM was using a hidden transmitter in that video, or if I am mistaken please correct me.

But what I can retain from his video, if I am wrong in thinking he had a hidden transmitter is as follows, considering he had a ring (larger diameter loop) and a coil (smaller one with the light). And consider a future control coil (CC) wound over the ring. So ring with or without a CC and a coil.

This would have to be tested of course. Now if the ring/coil worked only with a nearby transmitter, it does not matter. What we want to learn about is the after effects. So leave the transmitter on.

1) Take the ring and make the coil LED light up as you usually do.
2) It works. Great.
3) OK now wrap a haphazardly wound copper wire CC over the ring and just leave it disconnected.
4) Now try the ring/coil LED again.
5) If the LED does not light up what does this mean. We need to know why a disconnected CC is acting like a cloaking medium.
6) If the LED does light up with a disconnected CC that would be totally great.
7) Now try it again but just connect the CC ends together and test again.
8) If the LED does not light up what does this mean. We need to know why a connected CC is acting like a cloaking medium.
9) If the LED does light up with a connected CC, again, that would be totally great.
10) If 9 is valid, then take the CC ends and apply a very small dc voltage to it. See the effect on the coil LED. Play with the applied voltage level to the CC and learn the effects.
11) If 10 is valid with a still lit LED on the coil, then remove the DC power supply and connect the CC ends in series with the coil. Try that one for size and see if the LED still lights or if it lights up stronger.
12) If 10 is not good and the coil LED is not lit, try the same thing but this time use a DC pulse and sweep all the frequencies to find a working frequency that will still light the coil LED.
13) If 12 is attainable, then make a small circuit that can pulse at the frequency found, put it in series with the coil and then put the CC in series with the coil and the circuit.

Bingo you are on your way. If none of the above works, then remove the copper CC coil and wind an aluminum CC wire. It may be that you need the pulse or straight DC without the CC magnetic field so the ring can still receive directly form the CC without being cloaked to send it to the coil/LED. if this works in a loop, try eventually shutting off the hidden transmitter and see if the device can be self feeding once it is started.

What I am trying to convey here is methodology. All experiments should have a methodology that can produce either positive or negative results, but regardless of the result, you are always moving forward in your knowledge accumulation. This is the long and tedious method we all should apply to our builds, whatever we decide to do.

Don't just build, test one thing, then decide it is not feasible. You could be a few steps away from a grand discover if you use some form of methodology. Otherwise, we may as well all learn to throw darts at flies. Good luck on that one.

So when you have a build, wean it for all it can show you. Like drawing water from a rock. This will make you a better and more pragmatic researcher and all together will aid in the mutual progression of this quest for FE. You do not have to relay all your results, just anything that really stands out of the ordinary. This way we are not overly saturated with data, unless of course if it presented in a cohesive manner.

All the best. Now back to the bench for me.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sumermagor on January 01, 2010, 08:12:04 PM
i have read that thread where they discussed EMdevices work,
and they said Steven Mark Is a big scammer.
But never know..
we havent been there. we havent seen the real parts and everything,
Do you guys think Tpu can be only just Somekind of Antenna which use power from your house wires?

Since I've read That Jack Durban Said who filmed the device, that he Steven Mark did not let him look at the device more closely, (parts)
everything is possible,
Anyway we have to continue, we might explore the real phenomena.
Best Wishes
Sumer
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on January 01, 2010, 10:45:32 PM
   This experiment with the stout copper bars etc was done and documented by Tesla.  I would like to apologise to the poster who went through the troube of uploading a complete text of a book The Inventions Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla by Thomas Comerford Martin for I am indebted to this person for his efforts and can not find the link on ou to get his name and thank him properly.
  I do believe that SM used the rotation of a standing wave while Tesla used the oscillation of a standing wave.  (a standing wave only stands relative to time and can move in 3d)  Well anyway if you can move the nodes and antinodes of a conductor that is in standing wave mode they will alternately change the polarity of a capacitor plate by electrostatic charge and discharge of the plate that is geometrically in alignment with the nodes.  The electrons in the load circuit respond to the electrostatic field and migrate through the load until they terminate on the plate.  Towards the antinode and away from the node.  The capacity determining the amount of current flow through the load.  If the node and antinode are caused to migrate the current is then reversed in the load circuit until the plates are equal in charge.  If the nodes return we get pulsed dc to work with if they are circulated then we get ac.  This is due to electrostatic induction. Cold currents converted to hot currents by the electrostatic charging of a capacitor. 
   Tesla used the electrostatic "movement" of polarized mass to instigate longitudinal waves through a compressible medium.  The electrons dont move persay they get more dense or rarified just like air molecules transmitting sound waves. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on January 01, 2010, 11:49:37 PM
8 ) If the LED does not light up what does this mean. We need to know why a connected CC is acting like a cloaking medium.


It does NOT light up,  and this is easily understood by induction theory.  This extra "CC" winding is also a one turn loop, that is shorted, so it shorts the external field and it can't induce energy into my resonant loop.

EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on January 02, 2010, 08:56:05 AM
8 ) If the LED does not light up what does this mean. We need to know why a connected CC is acting like a cloaking medium.


It does NOT light up,  and this is easily understood by induction theory.  This extra "CC" winding is also a one turn loop, that is shorted, so it shorts the external field and it can't induce energy into my resonant loop.

EM

@EM, thanks this says alot.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on January 02, 2010, 01:02:21 PM
   This experiment with the stout copper bars etc was done and documented by Tesla.  I would like to apologise to the poster who went through the troube of uploading a complete text of a book The Inventions Researches and Writings of Nikola Tesla by Thomas Comerford Martin for I am indebted to this person for his efforts and can not find the link on ou to get his name and thank him properly.
  I do believe that SM used the rotation of a standing wave while Tesla used the oscillation of a standing wave.  (a standing wave only stands relative to time and can move in 3d)  Well anyway if you can move the nodes and antinodes of a conductor that is in standing wave mode they will alternately change the polarity of a capacitor plate by electrostatic charge and discharge of the plate that is geometrically in alignment with the nodes.  The electrons in the load circuit respond to the electrostatic field and migrate through the load until they terminate on the plate.  Towards the antinode and away from the node.  The capacity determining the amount of current flow through the load.  If the node and antinode are caused to migrate the current is then reversed in the load circuit until the plates are equal in charge.  If the nodes return we get pulsed dc to work with if they are circulated then we get ac.  This is due to electrostatic induction. Cold currents converted to hot currents by the electrostatic charging of a capacitor. 
   Tesla used the electrostatic "movement" of polarized mass to instigate longitudinal waves through a compressible medium.  The electrons dont move persay they get more dense or rarified just like air molecules transmitting sound waves.


Good catch sparks.This is why Fig 2 is in Tesla method of conversion patent.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on January 02, 2010, 04:39:09 PM
@EM, thanks this says alot.

@EM

It was late last night so let me just expand on your response of #8.

Would it not be reasonable to assume that since you know that a shorted CC on a ring prevents transfer from the ring to the coil, and an open CC does not, that given the design of the FTPU, ring with CC, that if SM was using the ring to coil HV transfer method, that either the FTPU CC was never connected or...............

This is the "or" part, in order for him to use the ring, he basically used the CC via a small transistor that would open and close the CC short. A very small transistor because all you are doing is opening and closing a non energized wire and by doing so you are pulsing the ring without any direct intrusion, a virtual on and off of the ring that would then pulse a signal going to the coil. Why pulse. because we already know from so many other tests that pulsing create peaks.

If you have gotten to stage #8, the other stages would still be valid to try from that perspective to better understand what is going on. Then even try the same test progression with an aluminum CC.

Anyways, since I do not have a working ring/coil, I cannot myself answer or try to further this, so I will leave it alone. I definitely do not want to come across as a pestering idiot, so let's just move on then.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on January 02, 2010, 05:01:16 PM
@all

I started this new thread to not meddle with other threads that are well ongoing and well advanced in a certain direction, that I thought some may consider it inappropriate to ask this in those threads.

So, the question really boils down to finding the secret to the workings of an SM TPU...

We are shown at the 7:30 time of Professor Konstantin Meyl's video: http://www.youtube.com/user/DBlundon#p/c/D8239A09B9BA3F6B/1/Dz5gNvSAcNo (http://www.youtube.com/user/DBlundon#p/c/D8239A09B9BA3F6B/1/Dz5gNvSAcNo), a diagram of the near field activity of a D-pole antenna sending off vortexes of EMF filed lines.

Some have speculated that the TPU is receiving it's own transmissions, with gain.  If this mode type is correct then perhaps this near field vortex concept presented by Meyl is worthy of consideration.  We see in the third of four images, in the aforementioned diagram, EMF field lines in two counter rotating vortexes,... sound familiar?

Meyl explains in the rest of this video segment that the vortices unroll up to a wave at the transition between the near-filed and the far-filed, wavelength/(2*pi).  Due to its small size, I suppose that the TPU receiving 'antenna' must operate inside this near-field region.

I have no idea how to apply this concept to the TPU.  (It may be more expedient to purchase and/or replicate Professor Meyl's cookie-cutter Tesla kit with a few extra receivers: http://www.k-meyl.de/xt_shop/product_info.php?info=p6_Demo-Kit.html (http://www.k-meyl.de/xt_shop/product_info.php?info=p6_Demo-Kit.html).  Has anyone here done so yet; what were your results?)

Happy New Year!   :)
Rosphere
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on January 02, 2010, 05:43:51 PM
Hi Folks,

I found this recent IEEE paper on Magnetic Resonant Coupling as a Potential Means for Wireless Power Transfer to Multiple Small Receivers

Download from here, might be useful for some of you:
 
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~claytronics/papers/cannon-tranpe09.pdf

Happy New Year to you All!

Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 08, 2010, 02:09:46 PM
Hello All

I guess I'll put this here.

Ever Since EMDevices made his pitch towards the HV lines and he showed his LED coils, I started doing my own trials in that direction but not as precise as EM's power transmission due to my lack of knowing how to tune these coils.

Anyways, I made so far 5 youtube videos regarding coils, leds and pulsing. The first one (Part 1) is located here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODc943KCFLw

All you do after the first one is click on the More from: wattsup1004 link and the others will be listed.

I forgot to mention EMDevices in my videos but will do so in video 6 or 7 since there will be more coming.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on March 08, 2010, 11:32:33 PM
@WU,
The vids are cool. The bloch wall has all the action. A zero point space with electrons orienting on both sides. When the pottential changes the poles flip and there happens to be wire right there. Electrostatic creation.
You mentioned placing copies around the toroid. SM said same thing about 'many wires'.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 24, 2010, 05:00:06 AM
@GK and @all

Let me post this while it is still fresh.

OK, I have been experimenting since the last video, trying to see how to prepare my Video 6 because I found some great new effects, but I have stumbled on something, not something, a notion, while pulsing coils with a battery using the Tesla Ozone Method via an IRF840, and it hit me.

We have been pulsing coils with a battery, creating all sort of effects, producing secondary outputs and hoping flyback will return to source, etc. But we have never asked ourselves one major question regarding one of the main components we use in our OU arsenal. THE BATTERY.

What is a battery and what can it do. When can it do it. When can't it do it. And then it hit me smack. When you create major havoc by shorting a battery and then letting it loose into a coiling scheme, during the short, voltage drops to zero, then we open the short and hope the flyback returns to the battery. So how many things can a battery do all at the same time. Can a battery provide a short and a flyback at the same time. Can it provide a pulse and take back a flyback at the same time. No it cannot. So whatever we do, it is always one after the other and that shift is where we lose precious time to augment the output. The output knows we are only really working half the time,  but we cannot do any different otherwise we cannot pulse. So as soon as you start pulsing, you are in effect sort of doomed to fail.

But what if the system included not one battery but two batteries. While one is pulsed, the other is relaxed. The beauty of DC is there is no phasing problems. All outputs can be paralleled and all will be additive.

You know that when you put a transformer primary on a battery terminal and you then short the battery temporarily, voltage in the secondary rises tremendously. So you do this with two batteries and two transformers in alternating fashion, but not as in alternating current.

OK, then with this notion is view, I think of the damn center toroid again and under this idea, a center toroid with only two coils, either bucking or not seems to make more sense. Each output enters the toroid and is used as a trigger to flip/flip from one circuit to the other. Bing bang bing bang. That would also explain the highest amperage readings over the two LTPU toroids.

Also, now the need for two frequencies, one slightly off the other also makes more sense.

I don't have the complete scheme worked out but I wanted to put it out there.

Most everything in nature works in pairs. If we equated the quest for OU to the making of the automobiles, have you every seen a car engine with only one piston (besides any special cases)? You have 4, 6, 8 and 12 (major hogs) pistons working in succession.

So imagine working 2, 3, 6, 9 batteries, each taking their slice of a cycle.

What do you think about this.

We don't need to look at patents for days on end. The idea is very simple and should not require major rocket science. But I am getting almost convinced that any builds with only one battery will run into major problems and even consider it failed from the start. Especially if there is a mosfet inline, that integrated diode kills the flyback and even if you do some fancy flyback switching to bypass the mosfet at the right time, you are still only working with one battery so off times will kill the output.

Maybe I am totally wrong on this, but, these days, things have been coming to me in steps and mulching all this logically, this notion for me seems to be the best direction to add to the coiling, coupling, transfer, pulse, flyback, build types, etc.

So I think for now I will start a new video soon on this but hopefully by then others will catch on and this can spread out for not only TPU works, but all sorts of OU works like the JT guys should start working on a new symmetrical dual battery drive design. You might say, It's time to grow up and bring this to the next logical level. You can't pulse and get flyback at the same time.

Looking back at Tesla Patents, Tesla never said, build only one. He probably showed us the one and figured we would know to use more in tandem.

Imagine two systems, each in their own resonance, meeting in the outer coil/rings. SM saying two fields moving in two directions. Sort of fits.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on March 24, 2010, 05:29:59 AM
@wattsup

That is essentially what the jt is about , but without the fancy 555 and pwm.

But i have a question , if you can make a tank from one coil and one cap then why could we not make one from two coils ?

 Also , it seems no one quite agree that it is possible to get more out then in , most forget the basic thing earth
http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/electromag/java/faraday/index.html

The compass shows us there is something even stronger then the battery already there and real strong , we can only disturb it when connecting and disconnecting the battery , at the disconnection the field re stabilize , same when pulsing a magnet .

The power is there already we have sometimes have wrong mind set , we do it in the opposite way.

Mark


 

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 24, 2010, 06:07:32 AM
@wattsup
But i have a question , if you can make a tank from one coil and one cap then why could we not make one from two coils ?

Sure you can have how many you want in a circuit. Put 10 different coils in series or some also in parallel and you will be able to eventually find that one frequency that will bring them all to their best resonance. But you still have to live with the off pulse. That is where we lose the game in a solo system.

Even if you had 10 systems in parallel working all at the same time, they all will still share the same off pulse time. But if one is on while the other is off, there is never an off pulse on the output. Nothing is more important then what the output sees. After all, what do we measure the most.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on March 24, 2010, 06:15:50 AM
I agree the best would be to have two thank in a pull push type action , what if the 2 coil shared a single closed core like Leedslaknin.

He showed us that he could store a charge in a u shape electromagnet for ever , until needed .I am supposed to think the coil don't resonate between each other to keep the momentum , or simply the contained field stores the charge like a regular capacitor ?

I don't mean to be arrogant , i just don't know .

Mark





Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on March 24, 2010, 09:48:03 PM
After reading the Scott Mckie thread I took notice to the twin tank configuration and added my own twist using an h bridge motor driver.
In this configuration the off pulse produces alot less waste. It also uses the 2 caps in the SM17 tpu.
In the Bucking toroid the off pulse actually flips the bloch wall in Zero Space and the rotation of the magnetic flux line direction around the wires.
In the parallel coil idea, as first coil collapses the second generating coil pushes out onto the collapse of the first coil. These are not bifilar but twin tanks ringing and dinging each other. Back and forth. Like the Hendershot.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg233370#msg233370

I have 4 of Jason's SSR boards so I can set the Hbridge up. This is on the list. I have the iron core bucking toroid built. Just finishing off the ends for mounting.


Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on March 25, 2010, 04:37:48 AM
Iron core, bucking pair, 325 turns ea., 265.1865uh.
This one needs to be shielded when run.
When pulsed at ~6.8 another pulse shows up in the off time of the pulse. When run at 51hz there is a large ringing happening. When run at 60hz it crashes the controller application. I believe the 51hz matches up with the grid 60hz at random points. The 60hz matches up all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD77Wf3QcBs
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on March 25, 2010, 10:57:28 PM
@Wattsup,
After your last post about the SM17/ LTPU I saw the windings of the outer ring. I also looked again at your FTP site at the coil cut aways. And this is what I came up with.

After reading the
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6218.0;attach=28095

I realized in looking back at the ECD that it was air core with a copper wire running through it. The primary and secondary were matched geometry (Mass and windings) to get the 2 freqs to impact and compound.
So my thinkning is that the SM17 secondary windings were gaped to perform capacitance since there is no core inside to store into. The primary was only wound so far at the beginning if the direction of pulsing or energy is clockwise. I am also wondering if the primary is wound opposite turn direction of the secondary to produce the force yet not the electron flow? I have never taken notice of this in building of Tesla coils.

So tonight I put the primary on. 22 awg spaced windings, 10 - 32 turns, oppositely wound, I would like to match a harmonic of the quarter wave length of the sedondary.

According to the following quote I have natural resonance and tank resonance to think about.

Quote
Basic Energy Theory and Concept

The basics of energy and magnetism have been called into question so many times in the past century that a review and compilation of existing theory and “Proven” facts has become a necessity for anyone looking to process electrical energy in a meaningful way with regard to the “Non – Hertzian” type of  energy radiation.  In order to eliminate confusion as much as possible, and to prevent the common problem of not seeing the correct concepts due to incorrect application of existing “Laws”, many common ideas in electronic flow will have to be minimized or put into different perspectives so that the classical education does not hinder the true understanding of energy flow.  Even the common definition of energy will have to be ignored at the start, as certain types of energy do not behave according to the well respected rules that have dominated the entire field of physics for so long.

To begin with the basics, a simple definition of electricity must be put forward.  As is well known from many studies, the accepted belief is that electrical power flows through conducting materials as actual physical electron movement.  This definition doesn’t come close to defining all of the aspects of “Electron Flow”, but covers the information given out to the public fairly well.  The biggest inconsistency comes up with calculating the speed of the “EMF” in the conductor, whatever material it may be.  The electrons physically move slower than the actual energy going through the conductor.  This very simple statement of known fact really exposes how little most people understand of the true nature of the energy flowing down any conductor.  Trying to scoff this off as inter-electron static force is really being simple-minded, as this would mean that the well documented “Surface Effect” at high frequencies would alter the speed through the conductor, as well as other effects.  This has long ago been taken care of in the electrical field.  The second simple inconsistency has to do with the “Electro-magnetic” fields.  The assumption that a magnetic field is purely derived from electron movement is a complete joke on the entire community of electrical workers.  For a simple, and very well known, example:  If the magnetic field “Requires” exclusively and only electron movement to be created, then standard Hertz-type radio waves would not be able to propagate through a vacuum, which would eliminate satellite communication.  There are many simplistic views that state the creation requires the electron movement, and then the waves can propagate on their own; however that fails the common sense test of what is the medium that the “Waves” or “Field” is a modulation of.  Whatever this “Medium” is, it would also be the true source of “ALL” magnetic fields, although it may not be the Source of the modulating energy.  To use a “Fluid” analogy, the fluid may be modulated into many waveforms, patterns, etc., but the fluid itself is not the source of the signals impressed upon it.  The specific object that does impress the signals certainly has no effect on the fluid itself, just upon the signals.  Remember, there is no chemical interaction here, as we are already dealing with other types of material that don’t necessarily interact in that method.

There are many exceptions to the above stated concepts, but it lays a solid enough foundation to pursue further information without so confining the minds eye that the process leads nowhere.  The most important information that this entire document is trying to establish is what is the “Real” basis of electricity and why the information is so difficult for anyone to accept in the physics world.  This energy form HAS been well defined, and has been demonstrated in collage labs for many years.  The original work was done on this more than a century ago, and yet the simplest functions are still shrouded in mystery and confusion.  Many of the less-proven functions, or ones that are “suppressed” or ignored for any reason, will have to be verified by experimentation if common sense fails to give an obvious answer.  Only specific results will be included here as they are needed, however full documentation of any test will be recorded and this information will be referenced directly with any inconsistencies mentioned.  Obviously, there will have to be follow-ups to this initial document, but that will only happen if interest holds and tests support further investigation.

The very first and most important concept that must be accepted is that the “Electron” flow, or better put, the Physical motion of “Electrons” is NOT the prime mover of electricity.  This physical motion is the effect of a separate force.  In this simple type of definition, the Magnetic effects on electrons must also be producing this same type of force, but as anyone who has worked with magnetic induction knows, there are obvious indicators that show the force is still created BEFORE the electron motion is induced.  If the interaction of the Magnetic field alters the force due to electrons or due to the patterns in the mass itself is not yet known by this author, thought that information is on the list of things to be investigated.  This type of interaction with matter covers inrush current as well as several other effects that are currently “Unexplained” in the standard modern physics books.  It also explains why a simple coil of wire, with half wound in one direction and the other half wound in the opposite direction, still induces an electrical current.  (Patents are available for documentation.)

An interesting item for those “Conspiracies” people is the constant restating of the well-known “Faraday’s Law”.  No “Law” for physics is always guaranteed to hold true for all circumstances, however this is a true bending of the truth.  His Original theorem states that the EMF generated is relative to the “Rate of Change” of the “FLUX” of magnetic induction linked to the circuit.  This is normally restated to the “Rate of Change” of “CURRENT”, which we know is electron motion.  These are COMPLETELY different rules if you accept that electron motion is not the end-all and be-all of electricity.  This is the point where the normal collage student is led down the garden path, never to be able to return.  If the reader has made it to this point without throwing this document away as a flight of fancy should now be able to see how Lenz’s Law, and many of the “Laws” that follow are all biased to electron flow and are ignoring the actual energy behind the whole electricity concept.  Under Specific conditions, Current can be used to measure the amount of magnetic flux produced, but as anyone who actually has to calculate the instantaneous current in an inductor, prior to saturation or the leveling due to resistance, the math required is into deep calculus, and not to be assumed correct until an actual test has been done.  Radio tuning of transformers uses ferrite cores just to tweak out the frequencies, but the entire setup was biased, as above, when the original circuit was designed. 

There is also the problem, when frequencies get higher, of the inertia of the electron itself.  The actual energy of electricity will have one “inertia”, while any true electron flow will have some other value.  I’m sure the obvious repercussions of this abnormality are easy to see.

A Special note to those more intelligent than the author of this little Theory sheet.  There are inertial effects related to Mass as shown in the motor startup current decreasing on a restart of the motor.  This force stays with the motor, even though the planet is rotating, orbiting and the solar system is expanding, etc.  This fact would seem to indicate a force with a related mass, but if that were the case, this field would be much easier to detect.  It would seem that this force is stored in a swirl or vortex around the motor, and the physical aspects of the material object hold that swirl or vortex in position.  Of course it could also be that this force never fades away, but actually moves out of position due the shift in position from planetary coordinate reference relative to universal coordinates.  This is an area that will be investigated upon the completion of a useful definition of the force.  It is difficult to discuss the pattern of water falling through a coriolis force if the people discussing it don’t know what such a force is.  Either way, referencing universal concepts is far too advanced for this type of initial foundation establishment.

The only way that the author can see to immediately begin the proof of any of these simple concepts is to basically test, or generate, this “Force”, without generating any electron motion.  (Gee, sounds like Meyer, Sweet, and Tesla, doesn’t it?)  There have been many researchers that have put forth great devices that seem to never work for others that have never established the initial theory of operation, and therefore would never be able to tune in such a device because they would tune for “Electrical” properties instead of the true base energy properties.  That is the reason for this entire document, as if the concept is fully grasped and accepted, and the used methods are then understood, I would hope that anyone with that level of understanding would be able to handle the responsibilities of making use of an energy level that is many times what normal electricity is capable of.  OK, time to get off the “Soapbox” and continue with real observations about the basics of the real electricity.

First step in any proof of this force is to generate some, and use some form of measurement to establish values that can be referenced.  Even if it is just to light a bulb, etc., it is a necessary first step.  The simplest form of generation I have come across is a standard, simple, and properly constructed Tesla coil.  This must be designed using counter wound coils to prevent transfer of “Electron” motion while allowing the transfer of the real force.  Only then can the tuning of the coil be done to produce the greatest effect.  Once tuned, normal electronic methods can be used to compare the properly tuned frequency with what the electrical “High Q” resonant point is.  These two frequency figures WILL be different and should be useable to begin to define the differences between normal “Electron” flow based systems and true “Energy” based systems.  The first assumption to be made is that there no way that a perfect separation of these two energy forms is possible without knowing a LOT more than the author does.  Therefore, a basic working Tesla coil, with a very isolated output to eliminate as much electron flow as possible seems to be the best way to begin.  Instead of pulling out all the formulae for what the inductance values are for specific winds of coils, it would seem better to copy already built devices (From Tesla documentation on demonstrations he did.) and then measure the resultant inductance and capacitance of the circuit.  Tuning for best output should be done exactly as described in his “Lecture” and then the tuned circuit shall be measured for operational frequency, without changing the loading, etc.  This exact same circuit will then be driven as a basic tank circuit, just to see where the standard electrical “Q” point is, according to standard theory.  Actually, if the two frequencies are the same, then this whole document is moot.  If there is a difference, then many of the “Theories” put forth by the many people that subscribe to these concepts will be verified and the true work of documenting the differences can begin.  How many applications of this there may be are limitless, but at least this is a true beginning of properly documented, scientifically observed phenomena that can be used in applications to further many of the unusual devices that have been shown in various unusual sources.  This is not thought of as the solution to any specific problem with any specific device, but as a foundation for working with any device that the operation is based in this type of energy.  If that happens all electrical devices at some future point in time, then great.  If not, then at least the mind was forced to consider new possibilities and make use of the imagination, for that is the basis of most new ideas.


This document was written solely for the author’s clearing of his mind before beginning the first round of testing.  There certainly are conceptual errors and in no way is this to be considered a professional paper, though it was written third person to attempt to conform to existing formats.  There is no promise to document publicly any of the results of these tests, as the last group of testing done was scrapped, deleted, and purged from memory, mainly due to a lack of understanding of the above information.  All that can be said about previous tests and concepts that were incomplete is that a little knowledge can be very dangerous, and nature’s rule is you must walk before you can run.  It is even better to stand before you walk.  Running well while in free-fall because there is no floor under you serves no-one’s interest and can cause tremendous damage to both equipment and the people nearby.  If doing large scale type of work, the people around you could be considered the population of the planet, which is a lot of responsibility for any one person to assume.  (Imagine Barium-Cobalt Ring, 5 Foot Diameter, Sweet feedback, and using
Fused wire for “Cold” type electricity.  That Fuse doesn’t blow.  Now you understand….)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 26, 2010, 04:01:36 AM
  Somehow lost a post in cyberspace.  The gist of it is that the magnetic field can do no work via the essence of its simple propogation.  It will however act as a rail does to a train.  It is alot easier to move the tracks than it is to push the train over in the direction of desired travel.  The native american indians figured out along time ago how to heard buffalo to a cliff edge so that the power of the buffalo would end up destroying itself.  (Bears were also killed via their body weight falling on fixed spears.  Feudal fighters in Ireland figured out how to stop the English calvary using the horsespower to kill the animal by fixing spears and having the horses run up on them,  etc.)  The average velocity of an electron about an atom according to quantom mechanics is close to 1/6 the speed of light.  The average velocity of an electron in a conductor millimeters per second.  Where did all the momentum go.  Not the case with superconductors.  Lot less random collisions and random distribution of electron momentum.  An ionized gas as one would find in a spark gap resulting in lots of free electrons and a pollidial field to boot needs only the addition of a set of rails to get some conversion of electron thermal A to electrical energy.  The energy required to ionize an atom is less than the electron energy in jumping to the conduction bands and returning to the valence orbitals.  Especially if the photon frequency is such that it results in an electron cascade phenomenon.  Where does the energy of the electron come from.  Cooling of the spacetime contiuom.  I see the Sun as a A spot in a superhot Universe.  The tidbits of em it throws off a tidbit of what it is surrounded by and relative to.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on March 26, 2010, 03:27:34 PM
The black is in a ring.
Both are bucking.
The winds are opposing to themselves and between bot sets.
Iron ring core. It lit an LED too.
But now I got back to the sport model which is copper core. I do have another bucking configuration in mind that uses very little stranded wire length. A mix between the sport model and the bucking toroid.

In one of SM's video's there is a Fischer-Price train set on the floor by the front door that runs in a circle, clockwise.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: starcruiser on March 26, 2010, 05:08:20 PM
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.msg234684#msg234684

Check this out, lots seems similar :D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 26, 2010, 07:44:36 PM
Where does the energy of the electron come from. 

OK, @sparks, let's talk about this here. Or in any thread you open for general ether and universe talk.

The way I can comprehend it for myself, it all has to do with ether that is everywhere, the electron cannot exist if the nucleus is not in continuous movement through the universe. Like a fan you hold out the car window. The faster you go the faster the fan will turn against the wind. Electrons are small enough to turn against the ether wind. But you have to always be in motion otherwise no more nothing. Matter could not exist if it does not move in the universe. The Big Bang provided the first movement, then matter came to be.

The size of the nucleus will determine the type of mass and number of electrons required. Electrons protect the nucleus especially the protons from being robbed by other fields and/or electrons, and the nucleus gives electrons a stable base to spin relative to the movement of the nucleus in ether. Like anywhere else in nature, there is a symbiosis between the electron, the nucleus and ether.

Based on that. Let's say a star is traveling in space at 1 million mph. If the star explodes and ejects matter fast enough outwards at 1 million mph, the portion of matter that was sent out against its direction of movement will actually not be moving, but stay at the same position. At that moment, you could have the seedling of a black hole. A black hole is basically a space anchor stuck in one place. If there is enough matter in proximity, it will fall into that hole and make it grow, otherwise it will simply dissipate into the ether broth. That is why there is not that many black holes compared to matter. This explosion with matter not moving is rare. When matter enters its last phase into the black hole, it simply stops moving relative to the universe and disappears back into the ether broth. So the black hole is a matter transformer turning it back to its base ether mode.

That's the way I look at it these days. Ether is the essence of energy and matter. A magnet is a physical piece of matter. The actual field is inside the matter and reaches only the limits of its physical form. It is the ether that aligns with the magnet to makes its field. It is the ether that moves over your coil. Ether can move through the mass of the magnet like your hand moves through air. Magnet flux is condensed ether. Electricity is poteniatalized ether. Electricity under resonance is homogenized ether. Like when you whip cream the mass stays the same but takes up more volume. Just like carbon powder aligns with the magnet field, actually the carbon is being aligned by ether that is aligning to the magnet. That is the same alignment we analyze in molten lava (basalt) that hardens and locks in the Earths magnetic field orientation.

@GK

Great video and good info. Let me digest it. Did you see the video from Mk1.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8878.msg234369#msg234369

@OK

Here is another side of the overall TPU issue or OU device issue.

Capacitors.

If the device requires a capacitor to discharge, I am realizing the capacitor should logically always discharge TWICE. Every time I discharge a capacitor, when I recheck it there is still some juice left, enough to make a good second discharge granted of lower voltage but probably enough to drive the pulsing circuit. And here again, two capacitors would be better if worked in tandem. While the first is charging, the second discharges once then twice. One in the main coiling, the other in another cap holding tank to feed back to the drive circuit or elsewhere.

The premise is simple. If the impulse that charges the capacitor is enough to charge it from let's say 0 volts to let' say 100 volts, then when you discharge it you still have 10 or 20 volts, then what's the point of sending another impulse to charge it again from 0 volts to 100 volts, when it already has 10 or 20 volts in it after the first impulse and discharge.

You are better off discharging again that 10 or 20 volts to keep it and use it then to mask it with the next impulse. This provides more output and it makes sure the main capacitor is at 0 so it can catch the maximum possible next impulse that is already there and should be capitalized on.

This again falls in to the idea of dual battery, dual system, dual capacitor, double discharge.

Does this make any sense?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 27, 2010, 02:41:01 AM
My concept is this.  In any system that shows thermal radiation we know that there are atoms in motion.  These neutral atoms and or molecules are pretty much immune to electrical polarization of space.  They are not immune to photons of highfrequency or short wavelength.  These high frequency waves are able to penetrate the field established between the electron shell or bubble surface if you will and the neucleus.  They pop the bubble and you have a free electron.  The free electron will now have the thermal energy of the host atom plus be responsive to an electrical field.  (an electrical field caused by the amassing of charged particles is a gradiant field of the scaler electrical field)   The ionizing energy doe not come for free.  But the ionizing energy can be less than the thermal electron energy gained.  Sm was messing with tubes his whole life.  Look at what happens in a tube.  We heat atoms in the filament until it starts to radiate photon energy.  A certain percentage of the atomic collisions involved in the heating of the atoms in the filament are of high enough an impact to create high energy photons.  These photons ionize atoms on the skin of the filament where the percentage is highest that an electron will leave the mass of the filament.  The work force to create the free electrons is greatly reduced when the filament is grounded.  The workforce is really very little if the filament is doped with radioactive elements because they are transmitting ionizing frequencies all ready.  Thats why they call it radioactive.  So you now know Moray's trick.  The rest is just a matter of geometry and making sure a space charge doesnt build up in the tube  that will messup the accelerating field.  Extremely high frequency and voltage can result in the production of the ionizing energy or photon input.  A second frequency of longer duty cycle to create the dipole field can run around in the same circuit.  The electron current from cathode to anode pickedup via a current transformer wrapped around the tube.  The pulsed tube will of course produce ac as the electrons slow then collapse back into the cathode.    I believe that Tesla was using this scheme but was using oxygen and nitrogen in the spark gaps and latter gas filled rectifier tubes.  Leedskalin had tubes wrapped with coils around them.  Another interesting thing is that water vapor contains some unstable isotopes and lately it has been found that em stimulation of radioactive isotopes can alter the 1/2 lives of these forms of matter drastically.  In a spark gap you have it all. I've done this open air and things start to get cold all around the anode.  The electric field can be constructed so that the thermal energy goes in current comes out.  The pulsation of the ionizing energy input also shows up in the accelerator current.  This allows the coil wrapped around the tube to inductively couple to the electron flow inside the tube or measure the current flow like a current transformer.  The pulsed tube will produce ac as the electrons flow first towards the anode then collapse back into the cathode.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 27, 2010, 03:09:59 AM
   I believe Tesla was throwing up some really exciting voltages and frequencies and increasing the power levels by using resonance until his towers became huge xray transmitters.  As the plasma field produced by the tower grew more and more nitrogen and air became ionized and the plasma currents were directly driven from the tower.  This plasma then becoming a growing sphere of conductive matter to carry the ionizing frequency further and further from the tower.
People reported a blue purple light glowing about the tower tops.  Thats what happens when electrons move faster than the speed of light.  The light gets bounced around and refracted while the electrons are mucho vectored accelerated.  I believe SM created a big old vacuum tube kinda thing but used the collector windings as cathode and anode with the current sensing coil wrapped around the whole deal.  Then even some bailing wire or aluminum to create a magnetic field to enhance the direction of electron acceleration so as to produce a sensible current.  The production of an ionizing frequency based on what your "filament" is made of aka kicks and the imposition of an electrical field and the current observer all rolled up into a table top thermal to electrical converter. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: smoky on March 27, 2010, 03:50:06 PM
Hi Giantkiller, Wattsup, Sparks and all, have been following this thread & hope it's ok to join this discussion to add a couple of points.
Was reading the posts also from Kames & his quotes above,which seem's very relevant to TPU.
Just want to say...
In older analog scopes delay lines are used to delay a pulse reaching the viewing screen (Y axis). This is so that the timebase trace has a chance to start running on the X axis before the pulse reaches the screen. Otherwise we can't see the initial rise or leading edge of the pulse.

The scope delay lines (also known as slow wave structures) are always air cored in my experience. Like a long plastic hollow straight drinking straw with a few turns (10 or 20) identical coils wound at spaced intervals along the rod.

So I think the TPU might be a delay line only in a circle turned back on itself toroidal fashion. If the toroid contained continuous magnetic material in it's core, the fast changing leading and lagging edges of the pulse would be slowed down distorting it.

The height or amplitude and rate of change of the pulse needs to be preserved in order to get maximum dV/dT for induction purposes in the TPU.

Delay lines are rated in microseconds of delay.

An initial pulse can travel around a delay line relatively undistorted and un attenuated.  A pulse can be induced into any or many of the individual coils on the line itself.

Only other thing I wanted to add was..... just as a capacitor can store  energy (current) charge so can an inductor be used to store energy.
To do it with a capacitor we charge it up & leave the leads open circuited till we need the charge.
With the inductor we charge it up and short the leads together till we need the charge.
If the magnetic field around the inductor tries to collapse back in..... the resultant current (& it's back EMF field) from the shorted leads opposes any change or collapse.
 If we had a charged up shorted inductor and someone placed a magnet against it.... possibly it might saturate the inductor causing the inductor to lose most of it's inductance making it emit a pulse of energy. All this without disconnecting it's shorted leads! Energy can be added or subtracted inductively.

If so a TPU operation could basically be a circular delay line with several shorted out coils at various positions around it's circumference?

How this grows to become a huge amount of energy etc I don't know, just adding the above to help if I can.



Gerry.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on March 27, 2010, 08:03:53 PM
Gerry

This is all very old knowledge we have to digg and clean and explain using today concepts.
What was Edison Etheric force ? Was that really induction from solenoid ? Back EMF ? Or was it the starting point in Tesla investigations and the origin of radiant energy ? If electricity can radiate in such way we have all energy problems solved, because we can convert energy from electric to etheric form and back eliminating all obstacles like Lenz law or ohmic resistance.

Read this thread : http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5132-1872-elihu-thomson-anyone-got-document-scientific-american-1872-a.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 27, 2010, 09:37:17 PM
@sparks

Thanks for your explanation which I understand very well and for which I had the same type of general understanding in the past. Let me take a chance here and explain further that these days, I don't think there is any imparting or ejection of ionized electrons or the tube filament would have disintegrated even though it is in a vacuum, vacuum is not a remedy against ionized matter disintegrating. Also, such electron travel and impact to the anode would be evidenced by crater like action on the plate quickly pitting it with holes.

For me it is again ether. All matter is at least 80% space. The electrons around each nucleus of the filament matter is bonded so strongly that it can oscillate until it becomes red hot and still stay intact, but, since the filament has a positive and a negative connection, all it is still doing is being spun by the applied power that generates a fluctuating field around the filament, like a concentrated magnet, going north/south spinning like a micro highly pointed generator rotor turning and turning and getting red hot. On the other side, the electrons in the plate matter are first highly resistant and inert to the imparted heat of the filament even though there is a vacuum. The plate electrons are magnets in their own right all parts of matter are to any certain degree. They react to the filaments very concentrated field fluctuation and start turning to the filaments cadence producing your output.

The applied power spins the electrons in the filament, making it a red hot spinning generator field, that spins the electrons in the plate that spin and produce the output potential, which is again more spin. This is simply what everything does. It just can happen in different organizations and produce different effects. Like water can be frozen, vaporized, fluid, etc. But it is still water.

Why are the electrons spinning faster. The electrons main reason to exist is to protect the nucleus against any exterior onslaught otherwise the electron will no longer have a home to exist within. The faster spinning is just deflecting the heat away from the nucleus and even though the filament is getting red hot, the nuclei are still intact and this is why they can then go back to their original ambient matter state when the power is turned off.

An analogy to the electron protecting the nucleus is maybe like a Ninja Fighter that is being thrown one arrow per second. He can easily move his hands to deflect the arrow to the left or right as long as it is deflected away from him. Increase the arrows per second and you can no longer see his hands moving so fast all over the place in time to still deflect all the arrows. Well, the electron is doing the same thing for the nucleus. It is spinning to a frequency given by the ambient conditions. Increase the ambient temperature by applying a power source and the electron moves faster and faster deflecting anything that wants to effect the nucleus, even to the point of getting red hot.

Take a Tesla Coil that produces those fine long arcs. Do you think the electricity is just shooting out of the top of the device. If so they would then shoot straight out at the speeds required to shoot out and chances are you would never see them because it would be 1000s of times faster then a falling star, much quicker then the eye can see.

But the electricity does not shoot out. It only spins so fast that the air atoms (just like for filament atoms) start producing what we see as a plasma spark that is also spinning like a tornado tip. Think of a two foot long piece of semi-rigid plastic string. Hold one end between the palms of your hands with the rest of it going upward. The top end will dangle back down because it is not fully rigid. Now start rubbing your hands back and forth like if you had a wooden stick and wanted to start a fire like cavemen did. The string will do what. It will not go straight. It will still turn downwards and dandle and jump around very erratically all over the place while it is spinning back and forth. No look closely at the way the Tesla coil arcs jump around. This, for me, is the same effect of the arc on a Tesla coil. Spin conveyance to the highest degree.

But this is my personal view based on my personal observations of nature and have no scientific basis other then my own logic. But I will tell you that with this general understanding of spin conveyance, I can sit down and explain so many effects that are just badly explained by standard theory. This for me is what is guiding the way I do my experiments and actually now see the world.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 28, 2010, 02:11:03 PM
     My line of reasoning is that in a gas the atoms are already accelerated but the vectors are chaotic.  By ionizing the gas with an optimum frequency transmission for ionization of that particular element any electrons diassociated from the gas atom will have the kinetic energy of the parent atom on board.  The magnetic field lines will influence the electron direction of travel whereas this is not the case for neutral atoms.  More or less giving us a handle on the formation of a ordered flow of energy from a chaotic form of energy.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: smoky on March 29, 2010, 03:17:15 PM
Wow that's heavy stuff guys, almost like NMR effects.

In one video Marks says it's very simple just how the coils interact ..with no "masked" ?? devices at least it sounds like the word masked.

I had thought a delay line as in phase feedback and perhaps a magnetic amplifier based upon transfer characteristic of BH curve being almost exactly like signal transfer characteristic curve of FET or transistor or vacuum tube. 
Just need to stop flux from reversing via a diode etc to overcome losses from hysteresis point reversal.

One things for sure... to get oscillation & therefore output to occur.
There has to be enough "phase margin" in the devices feedback loop and enough "gain margin" in it's amplification system to overcome losses & allow oscillation be this pulsed or sinusoidal.

There is a mathematically prescribed minimum level of both these criteria by some smart guys including our old friend Barkhausen.

Gerry
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 30, 2010, 06:42:25 AM
@sparks

I got that with thanks. Hmmmmm. Ionizing gas will not be easy to contain the heat and impart the electrons. You would need a special furnace.

On a side note, I was wondering how close I could get to video a pulsing bulb. I put up a 40 second video just to show it close up and I asked the question, what is happening to that filament. Maybe others will have a different idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V02d9x9qQx8

@GK

I did not forget your post of your toroid coil in the previous page.
Have you tested it in any way???

@smoky

"In one video Marks says it's very simple just how the coils interact ..with no "masked" ?? devices at least it sounds like the word masked."

He said somethign like "there is no mass circuitry in this device".
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 30, 2010, 01:40:09 PM
  For ionization to occur you need to produce emwaves aka photons of a definite wavelength.  The ionization will occur with the greatest yield of free electrons dependent not on the intensity of the wave but on the nature of the wave.  SM's kicks are of a high frequency nature.  A light bulb heats the filament into infrared emission (not very efficiently either)  the photons emitted then are absorbed by the argon gas.  This causes the electrons in the inert gas to be ionized but their free flight is of a very short duration so the oscillation in and out of the atom causes a higher frequency photon to be emitted in the form of visible light as the electrons return to the atom.  Now if the filament becomes an efficient antennae then the argon gas would be stimulated with less input energy.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on March 30, 2010, 04:35:39 PM
sparks, Do you mean that argon is generating light ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Magluvin on March 30, 2010, 04:40:18 PM
Sparks   so are you saying that when the tpu lights a bulb, that it is not of the same energy content as when a real 100w per say is lighting the bulb?  =]  It lights the bulb, but with less energy than it appears to be?  trix.

Mags
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on March 30, 2010, 05:08:18 PM
no, I think sparks said that filament is producing some force which makes argon atoms acts like little hammers on filanment or maybe I just took that wrong
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on March 30, 2010, 05:57:04 PM
@Light bulb,
It is a different energy. When the bulb lights up this new way it is cool and white, not yellowish and hot. And the new way works under water. E.V Gray did his demos with children, lightb bulbs and water.

@Wattsup,
In the last test with the iron core I connected the primary(gold) and secondary(red) in series then the secondary(red) sits inside the primary(gold), Mobius style. Then the air bobbin as a third air coupled, air core winding. I can alter the primary too. Slap happy simple. I have added caps to tank it but didnt spend enuff time. I will post a pic. It is pretty much like the jpg.

In the bobbin test the turns on the bobbin are in parallel with the primary turns so this is straight transformer coupling. The Led only picks up half the cycle. Interesting little configuration. It doesn't work at a distance so this is not wireless that is why placement and alignment are so critical.

Was above my knees in alligators this weekend so I am free this week to continue on.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: ramset on March 30, 2010, 06:37:06 PM
Giant Killer
Quote:
@Light bulb,
It is a different energy. When the bulb lights up this new way it is cool and white, not yellowish and hot. And the new way works under water.
------------------------------------
Underwater Now that sounds very cool!
White and "cool"
would love to play with that!
Hopefully we can have a TPU school soon!
I think you would be quite the "professor" G K

That would be nice!

Ahh... If only it was a perfect world....

Chet
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on March 30, 2010, 08:56:26 PM
  For ionization to occur you need to produce emwaves aka photons of a definite wavelength.  The ionization will occur with the greatest yield of free electrons dependent not on the intensity of the wave but on the nature of the wave.  SM's kicks are of a high frequency nature.  A light bulb heats the filament into infrared emission (not very efficiently either)  the photons emitted then are absorbed by the argon gas.  This causes the electrons in the inert gas to be ionized but their free flight is of a very short duration so the oscillation in and out of the atom causes a higher frequency photon to be emitted in the form of visible light as the electrons return to the atom.  Now if the filament becomes an efficient antennae then the argon gas would be stimulated with less input energy.

Maybe I could chunk it out in laymen terms or wattsup terms. lol
What this is saying is a description or answer to my video question. What is happening in the filament.

You apply a voltage to the bulb, which is the source energy or electromagnetic waves entering and heating the filament and creating an EM field. The filament then gets red hot and emits photons that collide with the inert argon gas that creates the light or the ionization of the inert argon gas that produces light. Hmmmm. This would mean that the photons leaving the filament would then have to return to the filament otherwise the filament matter would have changed its atomic weight and the type of mass would no longer be the same. Also, the inert argon gas would have to revert back to its original state. That I have a problem with. All of those photons and electrons leaving the filament will change the valence of the matter. Being encased in a bulb vacuum, those photons would definitely have nowhere else to go but to migrate back to the filament to reform its original matrix. I don't know. It is very hard to picture it. But that is expected with such a question.

@GK

Good going with your tests.

I posted a picture of my next toroid here because it is also relative to what @gotoluc is doing in his Self Running Coil thread.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8892.msg235321#msg235321

The way I originally connected the totoir bucking is like the SEC. and PRI. Bucking connections, but, look at the connections for the SEC. and PRI. Gotoluc connections. This is increasing the coil inductance by many fold meaning more mag field to play with.

So my idea is simply to do the same thing with this toroid and air coil LEDS, but this time, I will have a secondary coil in there to send all the secondary power back to source while lighting up the LEDS. Simple enough.

Oh, hope you had some alligator repellant.

@All

Also, I am putting here a diagram of my next circuit tests and will definitely need help to polish it up, but the main idea of the circuit is to follow the Tesla Ozone Patent for pulsing the Toroid with higher voltages and see if more energy can be sent back to source to both pulse the toroid and keep the battery voltage the same. That would be a major coup. I have tried this many times with standard relays and much lower frequencies and I can tell you it produces high voltage up to the 1500 volts range. The principle of function is rather complicated but in general, the mosfet is there so the capacitor can pulse one way and the inductor pulses the other way at each on/off of the mosfet, so you get two pulses for the price of one.

I have lettered the circuit for anyone who wants to give explanations or connection modifications.

The only real hindrance with these damn Mosfets is the flyback return that will happen in this circuit. It will want to rush right through the mosfet and back to the positive of the battery. This circuit will show you all about what inductance can really do. lol

Just to make sure guys know the difference between BEMF and flyback, this little video spells it out very well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi7cmUpMdX8&feature=related
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 31, 2010, 03:29:03 AM
     I see a photon as a moving electric field.  This is not the same thing as moving charged mass.  The magnetic field expresses the combination of electric force and inertial force.  Mass gives us the inertial forces and charge the electrical forces.  I dont believe that a moving electric field gradient in a vacuum produces a magnetic field change.  When the electric wave causes a charged particle to move then you get an electromagnetic wave.  Its like a displacement wave when you drop a rock in the water.  You need the water density air density and gravity to produce the wave.  The rock is going to displace anything it travels through but no water no air no gravity no wave.  So a photon causes a change in the electric field within the space of the field of interest.  Neutrals could care less but electrons do if the field is the right size and the angle of incidence is condusive to acceleration of the electron.  The electron feels a force imposed on it by the electric field polarization caused by the photon.  Too long a wavelength is like having an anode and a cathode too far apart.  The electron shell may be deformed but not enough to pop.  Too short a wavelength and the field gradient may be intense but not large enough compared to the electron shell.  But when it is just right the field causes electron seperation from the atom and a free electron is born.  When you have a conductor like gold silver copper they have prime number protons.  All elements try to become a noble gas.  Noble gasses all have coupled electrons in their outer shell.  But a conductor has electrons in motion jumping from one atom to the next.  This gives it a certain percentage of free electrons to work with that will respond to an electric field.  In a circuit we pump electrons to the edge of our contact wich carry a negative charge.  This amassing of the electrons is felt by the other free electrons in the wire attached to the other contact.  The amassing of the electrons will radiate a negative pole which if the electron density is enough will cause free electrons in the collector conductor to be accelerated and a chain reaction travels on down the rest of the circuit.  THE AMASSING of the electrons need not result in a current across the switch contacts to initiate a current in the load circuit.  If the momentum of the electrons is such that it is greater than the coolumb force between electrons and the dielectric strong enough the electrons will slam against a wall and induce a spike in the load circuit which will move electrons in the load circuit without  any current bridging the switch contacts.
    The inertia of the electrons is shed via photon emission as the deaccelerated electrons become subject to the coolumb force and start moving away from each other with a combined frenzied inertial and electric field explosion.  If this explosion is given some guidance then the current reverses and starts heading for the scource.  The oscillations in the conductor ringing down as the electron momentum is lost due to unavoidable collisions with neutrals and ionized cores that have their own kinetic deal going on.  It is these neutrals and ions not in the inertial frame of the accelerated or hot electrons that give rise to resistance.  A vacuum does not have infinite resistance it has infinite conductivity because there aint shit in the way.   The oscillations I mentioned are plasma oscillations. The conversion of photons into plasmons is what Tesla was doing.  Find me a spot where there isnt a photon in the entire Universe.  Number one is that if you are there observing it forget about it your filling that space with photons.  The cosmos seem to be filled with microwaves coming from all directions.  Tesla alluded to these but called them cosmic rays.  There are 5khz radiowaves being emitted by accelerated electrons in one of the spheres.   I guess I need to pick a frequency and an element and start getting some plasma oscillations in a piece of metal.  I believe the electrostatic charge change due to the amassing of or change in electron density can induce currents in observer circuits without damping the electron density waves.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on March 31, 2010, 03:46:00 AM
@wattsup

    Mass is not lost from the atoms in the filament  (well sometimes it is sputtered off) because the only thing leaving the atoms is the electron and it goes right back in.  The electron moving produces a moving electric field aka emwave aka photon.  The argon gas just converts a portion of the longer wavelength infrared to visible.  The flurescent bulb is a much better light producer.  It down frequencies ultraviolet instead of up frequency infrared. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: HopeForHumanity on April 01, 2010, 11:35:30 PM
Do electrons still have mass when they are not attached to an atom, or in the presence of an atoms force field(s)?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on April 02, 2010, 01:07:19 AM
 ???
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on April 02, 2010, 12:34:05 PM
    Ya.  They have mass but they dont have dimension.  Its like an xyz coordinate.  Not like a line or a sphere just a place doing something.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 06, 2010, 12:24:25 AM
@all

Here is my last (most probably) video in the series Pulsing coils and lighting LEDS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5zXe_iJzXc

I have noticed more and more that guys are using pick up coils with an led to see the energy moving around their devices. That is very great because this energy is very difficult to imagine using a scope and probe, and in many instances, the fact that the probe is applied changes the effect. Just use an led/coil near your device, light up the LED and then try to put a scope probe on it and see what happens.

There are many more effects I have found while doing these tests but in general, what I have shown is the basis.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 07, 2010, 07:44:54 AM
@Hi all

First of all @GK, I am sorry for not responding to your post and to your last build. I kind of had my head in one direction these days.

OK, here is my Video No. 7. I had to cut it up cause the master was too long for YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2thrf3kq8-E

I think I now know how SMs tpus worked.

Very simple indeed.

First the battery is used but only open ended. Next the pulse frequency is used but only open ended. Then the exchange between that and the Earths field charges an isolated pick up coil that is not open ended. The battery will never go down. The frequency pulse is only on one side, goes through to the other through the battery to the other side. Need more juice, you will need a bigger or more batteries to provide the greater north and south field biases. That's why he raised the LTPU center plate. He had batteries but they did not drain. Or if they did drain, it was taking so long that no battery known could do this, so he won the deal.

He said the 6TPU weighed 1.5 pounds. Hmmmmmm, That much wire would do the 120 volt thing.

It does not really matter what you build. if you use a closed system, you will be stuck to all the conservation of energy laws. But if you go open ended, what law will slam it down. Don't know yet but.............

After the above video, I made connections to a second coil via the free pulse generator ground lead and the free battery positive both going open ended just like the coil that's one the battery negative and pulse positive in the video, again they are open ended, and now............ the second coil is lighting up more LEDS. Amps on the pulse generator did not go up........... WTF man.

I will make a Video 8 but with Video 7, guys should understand the implications of this easily. I can only hope.

Monopoles do exist. You have two of them on each battery, inductor, capacitor, etc. We are the ones that are so bent on shorting them to get some work done.
Plus we have one major field whooshing around our buts day in and day out.

I think now that SMs vacuum tube analogy was to depict an open ended system. There is a space between the anode and the cathode. A vacuum tube is in fact a concentrated pinpointing on an open ended system. Pulse one side, bias the other and juice starts flowing.

Ottos ECD. He used some serious juice to pulse them. Not like my furty Pulse Generator in mA and uA. I think one day he started it and one of the leads was not connected making it open ended. The power supply ground did the same thing on one side as how it is being used it in the video. He hit the frequency from the other side and bingo, Bright's your Uncle. lol

Remember the small coils I wound on the coil ends shown at 2 minutes in Video6? Ottos' CC's did the same thing but even more concentrated, pin point like in three vectors. Man oh Man. I will have to dust off my ECD build..

I will have to make a diagram to explain it but in general.

Use a pair of wires to wind a first coil.
Battery negative on one wire.
Pulse positive on the other wire.

Use a pair of wires to wind a second coil.
Battery positive on one wire.
Pulse negative on the other wire.

Or, regardless of what you build, find the coupling wires and do the same thing. Put one on one and the other on the other. Pulse around and have fun.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 07, 2010, 10:03:26 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

nice videos!!

Your idea is something like to split a TPU into a positive and a negative pulsating "system"?? Top "half" of the TPU would be positive and the bottom negative pulsed??

Can you post a schematic for us so we can easier understand what you did in the last video?

Otto

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on April 07, 2010, 10:59:24 AM
wattsup,

I'm quite tired and not really understand what you explaining but I had surprising effect just with flyback or car ignition coil with attached extra coil.Is that what you are  about ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: tsl on April 07, 2010, 11:06:07 AM
hello all
@wattsup
nice idea.actually the open system is not so open couse the conductor pairs are actually amounting to a condenser so you get a nice hidden tank circuit( you have the coil and the "hidden" capacitor).it seems that you're still going to get to the transmission line theory in the end.i had also proposed allmost the same to some members over pm.keep up the good work :)
cheers,
tsl
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: smoky on April 07, 2010, 12:32:36 PM
@wattsup
I hope you don't mind these thoughts on your TPU video....

I think your setup is acting as an antenna from the 17.8MHZ hot feed side (the shielded coaxial outside always remains at ground potential anyhow) unless poorly matched. The signal is capacitively coupled via your windings around the conductor it gives the benefit of raising the generator feed impedance so not much capacitance required. As the TPU coil you wound is likely a poor match VSWR wise to the feed impedance at 17.8Mhz, the travelling forward and reflected signals are summing producing enough of a high voltage antinode for you to pick it up in a shorted turn loop antenna and rectifying it via the polarized LED. To give the illumination.

Energy dissipated in LED vs generator feed power wise it's hard to comment without first measuring the forward & reflected power with some sort of directional coupler or slotted line VSWR setup .

Gerry
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 07, 2010, 03:25:29 PM
Hello all,
@wattsup
nice videos!!
Your idea is something like to split a TPU into a positive and a negative pulsating "system"?? Top "half" of the TPU would be positive and the bottom negative pulsed??
Can you post a schematic for us so we can easier understand what you did in the last video?
Otto

@otto

You have understood it well. Then the second wire on top half would then receive the negative bias from the battery and the second wire on the bottom half would receive the positive bias from the battery. The circuit is never closed. You do not have to because between them is the Earth's magnetic field all the time.

The good part is the battery end never goes down because they are only providing a bias and the pulsing end is never destructive because the circuit is never closed, hence amperage is at a minimum. You just have to find the right frequency whic is definitely not the resonant frequency but slightly off.

Resonance is like a fine liquid electricity that fills the coil with a steady non-changing EM field. It just oscillated at a very fine way. You need the turbulence of being off the resonant frequency. The pick up coils don't like resonance but they love turbulence.

In the FTPU video SM says 5k hertz but that is bullshit. Nothing will happen in there at such low frequency because the TPU is so small with few windings. Based on my tests with different coils, etc, he is more like 5 mega hertz but he would never say that because he was afraid of getting his ass whipped by Mr. Big.

I will make a diagram. Tonight I will make the FTPU build with a center toroid included and you will see the voltage rise to 60 volts because the toroid core will act like a tank. lol

My current build is simple to replicate and you do not need the exact coil turns, etc.

No one mentioned in the video about the scope shots. I indicated the probes were at 10x (hello) and the Volt/Div. 5 volts at Time/Div. 1uS. The output was showing the waveform on 6 divisions. 6 x 5 x 10 = 300 volts @ 1uS. lol

The battery consumes nothing and the pulse is 16.5 volts at a few micro amperes.

How clear can that be????????????
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on April 07, 2010, 04:03:32 PM
We can have two currents in coil , right ? Each one related to its power source.
isn't that like vacuum tube ? like something Steven Mark said ?
do you see the difference when both are abruptly removed ? ;D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on April 07, 2010, 04:50:57 PM
[A author=wattsup link=topic=8185.msg236644#msg236644 date=1270646729]
@otto

You have understood it well. Then the second wire on top half would then receive the negative bias from the battery and the second wire on the bottom half would receive the positive bias from the battery. The circuit is never closed. You do not have to because between them is the Earth's magnetic field all the time.

The good part is the battery end never goes down because they are only providing a bias and the pulsing end is never destructive because the circuit is never closed, hence amperage is at a minimum. You just have to find the right frequency whic is definitely not the resonant frequency but slightly off.

Resonance is like a fine liquid electricity that fills the coil with a steady non-changing EM field. It just oscillated at a very fine way. You need the turbulence of being off the resonant frequency. The pick up coils don't like resonance but they love turbulence.

In the FTPU video SM says 5k hertz but that is bullshit. Nothing will happen in there at such low frequency because the TPU is so small with few windings. Based on my tests with different coils, etc, he is more like 5 mega hertz but he would never say that because he was afraid of getting his ass whipped by Mr. Big.

I will make a diagram. Tonight I will make the FTPU build with a center toroid included and you will see the voltage rise to 60 volts because the toroid core will act like a tank. lol

My current build is simple to replicate and you do not need the exact coil turns, etc.

No one mentioned in the video about the scope shots. I indicated the probes were at 10x (hello) and the Volt/Div. 5 volts at Time/Div. 1uS. The output was showing the waveform on 6 divisions. 6 x 5 x 10 = 300 volts @ 1uS. lol

The battery consumes nothing and the pulse is 16.5 volts at a few micro amperes.

How clear can that be????????????
[/quote]

Wattsup this is amazing I cant wait to see your next vid!  I want to replicate sooo bad!  I have been testing pulsing coils and I can confirm most of what you said!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 07, 2010, 05:35:13 PM
@forest

Read my second post above. I just talked about the Tube and SM.

"do you see the difference when both are abruptly removed ? "
Don't know what you mean.

@All

There a billions of frequencies out there. Many will find their right place. There is even a frequency that makes you tick. Your own frequency. But, most are never used or required. You can build a circuit with 10 totally diffierent coils all in series, and out of the billions of frequencies, you will find one that will resonate them all together. It is the law of infinite possibilities. I can only imagine in the higher mega hertz or even giga hertz range what we can find.

I think that is what Leedskalnin was doing. He found the resonance frequency for the rocks he was lifting. Resonance maybe makes them lighter. I am just curious if the site also had ground achors here and there because if he was lifting one rock, others around it would have lifted also and would have to be achored. Sounds crazy but those big chains were not enough to pull a huge rock but they are perfect to hold it down.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on April 07, 2010, 05:39:43 PM
when they are removed exactly at the same moment the result is additive ?  ::)
one of SM tips is saying that.... and I think it's true just that :o
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 07, 2010, 07:10:53 PM
Well this is definately very, very cool.

I like the 90 degree winding in Video #7 ;)
The two wrappings with the difference of lack of insulation on one could cause just delay one would need.


Just read this...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 07, 2010, 08:01:37 PM
when they are removed exactly at the same moment the result is additive ?  ::)
one of SM tips is saying that.... and I think it's true just that :o

@forest

OK, now I get your question and it is very good. Yes, SM mentioned what would happen if you stop the pulse before it reaches the end of the wire - Tesla style. Removing both ends of the wire at the same time is one thing, but in the open ended scheme, all you need is one side being pulsed because the other side is always open, hence every time the pulse goes off, it is both ends that are off. lol

To stop the pulse before it gets to the end of the wire, the end cannot be connected otherwise there is no end. Exactly as being done in the video.

Very good point. Thanks.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on April 07, 2010, 09:24:07 PM
wattsup

how about bias required to create magnetic field ?
if you have in coil which is open from one side  strong magnetic field (DC bias) and you make a pulse from other source and you find a way to abruptly disconnect both sources in the same moment having coil open from both ends then you should expect something extraordinary because energy cannot return to sources

SM said about cold cathode biased by low volts big amps and pulsed by HV low amps, two power sources suddenly looks like one of bigger power on immediate collapse
amps X volts may be not reactive ???? :o I really don't know but be careful ::)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 08, 2010, 05:21:49 AM
@stefan

Who the hell is this turkey brain called @wozlzl. Registered today, made 14 posts all almost the same thing. I suggest you ban him today and break a record. The least amount of days before being banned. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: smoky on April 08, 2010, 05:39:06 AM
Gotta agree there.... his post above is irrelevant and off topic!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on April 08, 2010, 05:48:27 AM
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Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 08, 2010, 07:26:36 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

try to connect your setup so the negative "part" is on the bottom and the positive on top.

The 5kHz is NOT a pulse frequency!!! Its a "product" of 2 much higher frequencies. Its really not a bull....t. SM was right about that!!

I tried your setup yesterday but no success because my brand new battery had a big problem with one of my TPUs and is now .....shorted, so I have to buy again a new battery. It was a 12V/45Ah nice battery.

Otto

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on April 08, 2010, 08:56:00 AM
From wikipedia : "In the normal mode description of Schumann resonances, the fundamental mode is a standing wave in the Earth-ionosphere cavity with a wavelength equal to the circumference of the Earth. This lowest-frequency (and highest-intensity) mode of the Schumann resonance occurs at a frequency of approximately 7.83 Hz, but this frequency can vary slightly from a variety of factors, such as solar-induced perturbations to the ionosphere, which comprises the upper wall of the closed cavity."

I watched Don Smith videos and found embarrassing simple theory :

What if Earth is unipolar dynamo ? We know that unipolar dynamo is producing large current at low voltage.What if that 7.83 Hz is nothing else but electron standing wave around globe ? IF that's so simple then all what is needed is higher harmonic of 7.83Hz DC PULSE to excite them and cycle back to 7.83Hz. Ambient background cycling is where you have useful energy.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 08, 2010, 02:06:15 PM
@otto

OK, I will try that but only tomorrow night and report back on the week-end. I understand what you are saying about the 5khz and I will see this during the weekend. I can even put another frequency generator on there to make two frequencies to see the effects.

I put up a short Video 8 here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=folknUfAz00

Actually someone sent me an e-mail asking what is required to light the bank of LEDs right off the Pulse Generator to have a base line to compare it with the last Video 7.

So my pulse generator was set at the best brightness being at 1.54mhz, 50% duty and the amplitude was at maximum 16.5 volts. On my volt meter I could only see 2.325 volts going into the LEDs at 43.5 mA (milli-amps) and this is in a closed connected scheme. Compare that with the open pulsing and only 9.3 uA (that's micro amps) to get the same or more brighter light. I don't really know how to calculate the real power used because I am on an open ended situation so how do you measure the voltage? The PG was at 16.5 volts but we can see this is not the voltage getting into the circuit because it is open ended. lol

@otto

For the coil, all you need is a length of two wire power cord with stranded wire (not one conductor each). My coil has only 5 1/4 turns.  Then put your positive of pulse to one lead then the negative of the battery to your other lead but on the other end of the coil. Then just put any wires around or even inside the coil and put an LED on it. Then tune the frequency for the brightest lighting.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 08, 2010, 07:39:55 PM
@Wattsup,
Good job!
The result is milli-amps with a current conection, :D
and micro-amps with electrostatic connection. 8)

Another circuit is Aliens197:
Patent 723,188: http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat723188.pdf
FIgures 1 & 4 acutally show the mass size transition from the Pri to the Sec.
Figure 2 is the real answer. He uses oscillating relays to produce the high speed shock wave.
But in figure 1 instead of the rotary spark gap use a stun gun circuit. That way the input is 5khz and the transmission is broadband. You will get your megahertz because of the electrostatic component. This is the only way 90 degrees works. The high speed oscillating transmission field is creating and destroying a Bloch wall in space. The return is at all angles back towards the zero point. In your video #7 if you leave the LED wire horizontal and spin in that plane (the axis is vertical) above the coil the LED should still light. Turn the wire loop to a vertical plane and the LED does not light.

Now remember Nikola sitting in front of a pancake that is 6 feet in diameter in his famous pondering pose.

I have to find Tesla's 'Dynamic theory of gravity' paper.
William Lyne is discredited but, Oh the mountain of nuggets that comprise a grand scheme of Tesla's work is voluminous. Just separate the wheat from the chaff.

Not off subject but all related.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 09, 2010, 08:16:37 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

as always a nice video and good work.

If I saw it right, I saw a input frequency of 1,54Mhz but your scope showes something like 3 microseconds and if I didnt fail, it should be around 333 kHz?? Even if you would measure only the first sine wave I see its a little bit less then 1 microsecond and that is not the input frequency.

Try to pulse your setup with 2 frequencies. But I have to warn you: its very possible that you blow your LEDs.

And please, disconnect the scope and your meters. You know and we know now the voltage and current but the scope and the meter(s) can f...k the results. Place your scope probe just near the coils and lower the voltage setting on your scope. The signals are the same but the coils are "free" to work without this scope probe. Sometimes I see big differences when I have a scope probe connected or not.

Otto

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 09, 2010, 05:45:39 PM
@otto

About the frequencies, this is why I am trying to make the videos and show as much as possible so some of you can see through through the nuances that I would not even consider.

Yesterday I was very limited in time but I did do a quick try with one dual wire ring of only one turn, with control coil wound all around it in one wind and results were about 10% of my Video 7 results. So this is giving me some good way of guaging some perfornace parameters. I think the minimum turns required will be 2 1/4 turns, but in all cases you will probably need that extra 1/4 turn. Don't know why yet.

Then there will be all the fun of trying many variations in parallel windings to increase the amperage. Then the fun of using the battery positive and negative as seperate biases. But at least with this new way, we can do so many tests. I can even picture now an LTPU working at 800 volts and do not see it as anything unreasonable to achieve. But it will take time and patience to figure out the variables.

More soon.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 09, 2010, 07:51:06 PM
@Otto,
Thanks for the scope tip. But where would one hook ground? What about the grid noise, 60/50hz?

@Wattsup,
I wound a 5 1/4 turn last night. Will test this weekend. I noticed that there was no specs as to the lead length. Just the turns! Much like the secondary of a Tesla coil. The leads are probably not involved or minor compared to the circling fiends(Freudian mistype) of the loops. As I posted 3 years ago the fast rise and collapse are similar to a micro spark-gap. The field activity within a field activity is what the process is and this speed makes the coils do their function. The high speed impact is the same as resonance but in a shorter time frame.

Any Bloch wall manipulation is good. The faster the better.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 12, 2010, 06:57:55 AM
@all

Man oh man, I have learned a lot during the weekend. I have taken some time to make the following simple diagrams of ways to connect this mono-pulsing method.

The dark black lines are your coil conductors. I even tried this with a three conductor wire wound in a rings of 2 1/4 turns.

But the rings wind method is not important at all. You can use anything you have on hand, even off the shelf toroid coils and transformers. It works in all of them.

My own DC pulse generator goes up to 20MHz but I am planning on getting one that will go higher. I tested my other frequency generators and they are all shot, no output even when put right on the scope, so I have to wait until I get my second PG in hand. Will find and order one ASAP.

I am in the process of including a center toroid into my FTPU style tests. Preliminary tests just with two sets of rings using three conductor stranded wire and connected as per the plan E works. I am amazed that the energy from the first ring is used to continue the same pulse on the second ring and it works.

Also, putting any metal inside the center kills the effect. Also, with some schemes, putting the battery positive as bias makes a brighter light. The battery voltage never goes down and the pulse amperage is always in the micro amps. Pretty incredible and now to see how to make this work with gain. That's where the center toroid must come in.

More soon.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on April 12, 2010, 07:42:13 AM
@wattsup

Great work !

Thanks for the drawing , and your theory is correct about coils inside coils

I have proven it in my work , i wonder now 2 of those with each there own bias + and - wound in counter directions .

Anyway i will try it i my own way thanks !!

Mark
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on April 12, 2010, 03:54:42 PM
heloo all
 i see  this I SEE THERE IS NORMAL ENERGY FROM SOME high frek generator is not suprise  becose is like you have open dipole IS NORMAL WHIT HIGH FREK TO GENERATED AUROND HIM SOME ENERGY IS NOTHING but keep experimenting ... if you tune the control to get max resonace whit colector coil is the same thing here is hapend is dont meaning beacouse high frek is travel in the air aurond and is like you have clousing loop @watso.. you say one wire I SEE YES IS ONE WIRE BUT ATHERE END OF IS TRAVEL IN TO AIR AND IS LIKE YOU HAVE TWO ENDS CONECTDE TO your signal generatorTHANKS
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 12, 2010, 05:14:53 PM
@Mac-cd,
Absolutely! Kinietically through the air as in radiation.

I tried the test in Vid#6 to no avail. The highest freq i can get at the moment is 5Mhz. The next test is the stun gun broad band transmission.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Qwert on April 12, 2010, 08:40:07 PM

(...)In the FTPU video SM says 5k hertz but that is bullshit. Nothing will happen in there at such low frequency because the TPU is so small with few windings. Based on my tests with different coils, etc, he is more like 5 mega hertz but he would never say that because he was afraid of getting his ass whipped by Mr. Big.(...)


In the FTPU video SM says 5k hertz. Here is another link. A guy says the same (5000 Hz): http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=937.msg7034#msg7034
 The quote: 

(...)"29 September 1997
Michael Fennell  (Consulting Engineer)
8348 Menkar Road
San Diego, CA. 92126
 
To whom it may concern:
 
I have been hired by Mr. Green to evaluate the performance
of the Toroidal Power Unit or TPU as has been described to me as a proprietary invention of Steven Mark who was until 1995 President and Chief engineer of Spheric Laboratories, a public corporation.
 
I have been instructed to compare the performance of the TPU with that of any known batteries and other storage systems.
 
As understood the device is universally observed to have the following characteristics:
 
 Outside Diameter:  6"
 Inside Diameter:  5"
 Height:    1 - 3/4"
 Weight:   12 ounces
 Output Power:   250 Watts
 Output Voltage:  160 Volts
Voltage Frequency:  5000 Hz.
 Duration of Performance: 30 Minutes"(...)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 12, 2010, 10:12:32 PM
@GK

Yes I got your PM on that. I am really sorry you cannot get higher frequency. You can take any longer lamp wire lengths and your 5MHz should be enough.

I think this is a major problem with many that do OU builds. I seems to me that when you just use a mosfet with a capacitor and a pot, your frequency range is very limited. Guys then do tests with their builds and when they see there is nothing special to pursue, they drop it. They could be pulsing in the 250k range but their build requires a 3.5MHz or more range so there is a very limited level of testing that one can do. I myself go up to 22MHz and I am now looking to go up to 100MHz simply because I am sure there are very different effects to be had with the same builds at those higher frequencies.

According to my tests with frequencies in the FTPU type build, there is nothing possible in resonance at 5Kh. If in fact the device is working at that frequency then it has nothing to do with resonance.

@otto says the 5Kh is a sub result of two frequencies, but this would mean you need at least one of the frequency to be way below 5Kh and another way above to then have one combined at that frequency.

I will be posting a new idea tonight on this question.

@Mac

How are you brother. Hope you are doing OK.

About this, note that the P+ is the positive signal from the pulse generator, but that the B- is just connected to a separate battery negative terminal, and not to the pulse generator negative. Battery voltage does not go down because it is only providing a negative potential. On some set-ups using the battery positive also works and sometimes even better. So this makes the overall amperage draw of the pulse generator to really peanuts, being in the 10 to 20 micro amperes range.

Look I understand that at this stage it is maybe hard to understand. This is why I am working to increase the effect to a level that is maybe more worth noticing. Thus far I have managed to very dimly light a 12 volts DC bulb, instead of the LED bank. This for me means a tremendous advancing and will work on this to increase it even more with a center toroid and a germanium diode placed at the right location.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 12, 2010, 10:22:41 PM
@qwert,
Thank you for that.
The dual 9 volt battery stun gun can run for that long. Especially if you put a slow astable window pulse to control the main trigger closure. Another way is to use a reed relay just like in tesla's patent, 723,188. He is injecting chatter into the separately tuned coils, 2 coils of different inductance.
The stun gun oscillator is 5khz.
It showers the environment with broad band transmissions.
This emission is caught by other nearby conductors. This includes any incident angle.
And if you need a certain megahertz by the resonance or pickup of your receiving antenna then your antenna will see the area of resonance in the spectrum going by.

I will test the stun gun as a driver to Wattsup's build. My suspicion is the LED will light when I could not get to before.

Now how could we come up with anything different than Tesla? He only had mechanical RPM or CPS. The stun gun circuit is the Ozone generator.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: HopeForHumanity on April 13, 2010, 12:17:31 AM
Most of the worlds most revolutionary discoveries are usually very simple, but hard to understand. This is why it takes so long to discover them.

Examples: Electricity, Fire, Engines... ect..
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 13, 2010, 06:20:13 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

sorry, youre wrong: the 5kHz vibration is a result of mixing 2 frequencies that are much higher then the mentioned 5kHz vibration.

To pulse coils with 5kHz or below makes no sence because we know that such low frequencies causes a dramatically rise in current from the power supply.

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 13, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
@otto

Thank you for the correction. I also know that lower frequencies consume more juice even at 5kHz so this is why I am puzzled how that engineer could see this in the TPU and not see the higher frequencies also.

@All

Parallel to what I am trying out in this thread, there is this question that has been bugging me for quite some time now as to how to go about making a circuit that can receive a continuous and infinite supply of 1 volt at .01 amps. This is about the minimum anyone can catch just by putting a single wire outside their home, connecting it to a radiant energy circuit that outputs two wires. But what the hell can anyone do with this energy?

I don't think inductors will be useful because they will produce both losses and emit other energies. So my only thinking is to use capacitors. It is very difficult for me to explain what I am thinking such a circuit would required so I have vulgarized this into the below diagram. I wanted to make it in animation but lack of time these days make this hard to do. I will eventually do it though.

I call this potential circuit a "Voltage Grabber Circuit" or VGC for short. There is nothing on Google using this naming so I think it is pretty safe to use to identify this specific circuit.

With all humility and humble respect for everyone here, if you ask me, all the main EE guys that are here to design circuits are just wasting their god given talents. The only real circuit the OU endeavor needs is an open source VGC. Make me one of those and the OU question will become history. The VGC is the one tool we are missing in our arsenal of toys to play with. Think of it like a smart capacitor.

Just consider that a suitable 1 wire input has the potential to supply an infinite quantity of 1 volts at .01 amps on two wires. You can grab 1 per second, or 1 million per second or 100 million per second. Either way, the energy will always be there available to the circuit. Now take that 1 volt and accumulate it until you get 10 volts. Bingo, the job is done. OK not so easy. I know.

The problem is that storage methods are not designed or available that can work in an additive fashion. If I send this power into a capacitor for 1 hour, I will still only have that same first power, nothing more because capacitor will only absorb the highest voltage put into it and not accumulate voltage.

So what do you do. Well I think this has to be solved in various stages.

As a STAGE 1 (small orange boxes are small capacitors) you can feed capacitor #1 with 1 volt then put it offline, then feed capacitor #2 with 1 volt then put that one offline also, then cap #3, up to cap #10 or up to how many you want. Then you put all the caps in series with the main ends still disconnected then you discharge them into a bigger holding capacitor (longer orange boxes are bigger capacitors) that is STAGE 2. Now either the stage 1 caps are charged individually or they can possible be charged all at the same time if all connected in parallel at charge state.

Once the second stage is charged up, they also go into series and discharge into the largest capacitor. Remember those two big yellow caps in the LPTU. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Possible dual VGC.

SM mentioned once that the control circuit was patented. What if it was just a VGC that worked with only 2 caps in first stage and 1 cap as a last stage. The diagram below is just to show the idea, the principle of how to accumulate larger energy from a small energy source. I do not think there is any other way.

Yes we are working on other ways, but in the interim, I think this type of circuit will prove to be extremely useful.

Anyways, if anyone knows how to really design such a circuit, please let me know. Image a 120 cap 1st stage, 10 cap 2nd stage, and if you want 3rd and 4th stages. All from an initial low power source. The source is there. That is simple. But what to do with it is the question I am asking. My basic solution is if it is there, grab it while you can, store it, group it and put it aside. Hmmmmmm. 3-6-9 would be a good staging for this also.

wattsup

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wings on April 13, 2010, 02:30:17 PM
This is about the minimum anyone can catch just by putting a single wire outside their home, connecting it to a radiant energy circuit that outputs two wires. But what the hell can anyone do with this energy?

wattsup


http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=UesaAAAAEBAJ&dq=5436822

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Uk13AAAAEBAJ&dq=7041203


?????
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 13, 2010, 04:35:42 PM
@wings

That patent is for picking up from preenergized cable. Not directly relative but it is still very interesting. Thank you.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on April 13, 2010, 05:31:00 PM
@wattsup

What about using your idea but the input is coming from a AM radio.  I think I was able to get .043vdc off the one I built.  It had no ground, just a loop antennt. .043*25 caps charged to that =1.075vDC.  Of course distance from your local radio tower would make a difference. 

Not ideal but an idea.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wings on April 14, 2010, 08:29:18 PM
similar ?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3696.0

MIT experiment one transmitter many receivers....more efficiency - posted by Broli at Energetic forum

"Although predicted by theory, the increase in efficiency when powering two devices at the same time had not been previously demonstrated in experiments. The team that carried out the recent work — Kurs, Moffat and Soljačić — found that when powering two devices at once, which individually could achieve less than 20 percent efficiency in power transfer, the combined efficiency climbed to more than 30 percent. The two receiving coils resonate with each other as well as with the transmitting coil, and help to reinforce the strength of the magnetic field. Kurs says that the efficiency should continue to rise as more devices are added, climbing toward a theoretical limit of 100 percent. The research has been funded by the NSF, the Army Research Office, DARPA, and a grant from 3M."

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2010/wireless-power-0409.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 15, 2010, 03:20:56 PM
@wings

Thanks for putting up that thread. Just goes to show that relatively nothing is new but only rehashed time after time. Maybe at each endeavor we can push it forward a few steps. We will see since I have many other angles to do with the one wire method.

@all

Looking at the SM TPUs, it is also our responsibility to openly consider all potential methods of operation of the device, weather we like the final outcome or not.

While is was pulsing my recent toroid which I put again below, I noticed a funny coincidence and made a Video 9 located here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EFZuJKHxsc

In the video I am showing the toroid connected as per @gotolucs mode where my pulse positive is going to (G) and negative going to (F). My secondary is connected the same way with the load taken from (C) and (B). I used @gotolucs mode because is shows the highest inductance potential with this toroid core.

Now in the FTPU video all SM showed was a voltage rise up to around 60 volts. We know his videos were very well rehearsed and he made very great care to only show what he wanted to show and in essence detract from things he did not want to show. In the case of the FTPU, he never lit a bulb, not even an LED. This tells me he could not lit a regular bulb with this device and all he showed was voltage, touting it as an energy conversion device.

From all my tests so far, given that the FTPU had only two rings of 2 1/4 turns with some scantily wound outer coil, there is no way in hell that the coupling between the coils will generate enough power to light a regular bulb. It just will not happen with such low possible energy supply. So I decided to use just the center toroid and in the video you will see the results and come to your own conclusion. I am not saying this is the definite thing, but this does provide a concrete possibility that the center toroid does in fact have a primary and hidden secondary windings, shown with the two different wire gauges leaving the SM toroid. And, if that is in fact the case, then all his outer rings, etc were are smoke and mirrors to detract from this one component that he so readily is not afraid of showing both in the FTPU, OPTU, MTPU and LTPU (2).

If the toroid was so normal and run of the mill, why did he always use that same model build. Why not just take any commercial toroid that is wound in bucking mode. Why insist on only using that particular toroid? Because it is not so run of the mill. This may also explain the highest amperage readings in the LTPU because this is where the prime coupling event occurred.

So for me, the following video proves the concrete possibility that the FTPU was only driven by the center toroid to do his demo. He also used this toroid in the OTPU and showed 90 something volts, which I did also. But int he OPTU he used those heavy lamps. Why use heavy lamps when all his other videos used lighter lamps. Why take the risk of having people think he had batteries inside the lamps. One would take that risk in one did not have any other choice to make  his video. So he showed voltage on the multimeter, and showed amperage by lighting those bulbs and all this could have been done very easily.

So now I am thinking the FTPU was just a show of voltage because he could only show voltage, and the OTPU show voltage the same way as with the FTPU but this time he had batteries inside the lamps to also show amperage and this is the video that clinched the deal.

So for me right now, one proven possibility is that SM did show the exact function of the FTPU and OTPU as a voltage producer but he faked the amperage production in the OTPU video. This does not mean I will not work to prove this is wrong, but so far, Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Looks like SM pulled a fast one at least on the OTPU.

More soon.

Oh, I am ordering some Ltiz wire 1000 strands. Very expensive stuff. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 15, 2010, 10:35:26 PM
Those center toriods are mounted on a base that have two male bayonet tangs. One is slim and one is wide. Just like car audio speaker connections. The odd thing is he never connects to them. As far as Litz go you can use the ezflow Audio cable. I believe he wrapped 90 degrees on that also.

Like Marco showed: voice coils.

Put a 10meg resisitor across the cap and disconnect it from the circuit then measure the voltage. It should disappear as in ghost voltage or short it separately(you won't see a spark). Seen this many times.

The leds are lit from 27milliwatts.

Use a 555 board to pulse it. This is similar to the oscilator in the stun gun on a nine volt battery.

The large loops could be a hoax. After all he never damaged the center units. This would be a good ploy to focus attention on the centers. Another misnomer. Marco and Grumpy advertised the center toroid too as a being very important. They mentioned it as a magamp. In my view that was a purposeful NDA misnomer.

I will fire a stun gun into my bucker. I can put a second layer on it also. I will also try my iron ring.

What if SM fired two stun gun circuits into the outer loops also. My thinking has always been that he took a stun gun and altered the last stage into a bigger loop. He told me not to fire the stun gun into a 15 foot diameter audio cable loop in the yard. The FAA would see it.
If you look at the last stage of a stun gun there is a big cap and ignition type coil there.
Then the emmissions from the outer loop would smack the center toroids.

Sm told me 'No big loop'.
Moab said 'I dont need  To use a stun gun'.
Grumpy posted a Tesla picture showing multiple spark gap stages.
Grumpy posted 'No NDA. Just end up in jail'

What if I invert what SM and Moab said and take that as a 'Yes' to what I tried?
That would make what Grumpy said as peritinent.

There was and has been so many things to try that was and is easy to just take what people said at face value. I was just the new guy then. But now after all the attempts, papers, patents, inventors have all shown the same event in different ways. Jack up the Bloch wall. This is an electrostatic process.

Si, Kemosabe?

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 16, 2010, 03:50:39 PM
Current build:
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 16, 2010, 05:40:32 PM
@GK

Nice one man. I see it is in @gotoluc's bucking mode.

Youz gonna have sum fun wit dat. lol

Also, noticed you have a good number of secondary turns which makes it a perfect candidate to also try the Tesla Coil method.

Send pulse into one Pri, then send that Pri to either the Sec under it or opposing it, in either direction. Like a cannon. I think your build will be better then mine when I test it that way this weekend.

Then consider from there either open ended system or closed via a capacitor and load.

Have fun. Will be back soon. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 16, 2010, 06:37:27 PM
Thanks.
I had the primary winding of 24awg(gold) on the secondary(red) at the start/break of the secondary(red) windings before and wound in the opposite wrapping direction but pulsed in the same secondary winding direction for about 1/3 the way. I stripped it off and rewound it going the same direction both in the wrap and wind direction for a full 100% of the secondary. I have 2 more rings from Ironhead that I can also config up. I have seen 3 distinct types of primaries, and this has not been mentioned to my knowledge. One is a heavy gauge low wind count, two is medium gauge, semi high winding count, 3 is sloppy. Type 1 is not included in the resonance factor but merely a loop transmission with the energy impacting the secondary perpendicular. Type two relies on resonance of 1/4, 1/2 or full wavelength of the secondary resonance. Both types have their place. I believe the stun gun circuit is a type 3 which is no resonance but just a charge pump. The transformer is merely used as an isolation and transfer component.

My curiosity has always been piqued by the low loop count primaries positioned at one place on the secondary or spread across the full length. The GK4 was an iron core conductor winding with high awg and high wind count secondary. And the primary was multistrand for the full length of the secondary. But the bucking mode was only half correct because the winding segments were all wound in the same wrap and wind direction. The semi bucking config could only be gained by jumpers like Tesla's patent,390721, 382282. I see this as important based on Wattsup's and Gotoluc's current build. So I felt this could not be used at this time.

This current build is 11:308 ratio. Not mass to mass matched, nor resonant matched or (sub)wavelength matched. Wattsup kept repeating 'The specs are not important at this time'. Golden words to my ears. This also matches up with Don Smith's wire wrapping demo around his arm, saying 'just do this'.

@GK

Nice one man. I see it is in @gotoluc's bucking mode.

Youz gonna have sum fun wit dat. lol

Also, noticed you have a good number of secondary turns which makes it a perfect candidate to also try the Tesla Coil method.

Send pulse into one Pri, then send that Pri to either the Sec under it or opposing it, in either direction. Like a cannon. I think your build will be better then mine when I test it that way this weekend.

Then consider from there either open ended system or closed via a capacitor and load.

Have fun. Will be back soon. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on April 17, 2010, 05:08:15 AM
 Two bucking magnetic fields create consequent poles.  This creates more torsion at the expense of angular velocity.
t
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 17, 2010, 07:14:19 AM
Wattsup's setup reproduced.
5 dcv 718khz square wave in. Stressed 2.92vac sine wave out on secondary.
Odd: LED is brightest when the secondary is lowest 2.9vac p-p.
But that could the resonant freq of the secondary.
Yep! Amperage is lowest.

I use 30kv 510pf cap and HVR-1X microwave diode.
I have amp meter in line with main and voltage across battery supply.
I need to put ampmeter in line with coil and vom across cap.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 17, 2010, 10:45:47 PM
What Wattsup did not show was the polarity of the LED bank to the polarity of the diode at the cap.
In the last test I had the LED polarity in the same direction as the diode which means the flow is blocked one way but in the opposite way the diode lights and the cap does not get charged. The LED presents the shortest path.
I am switching the direction which makes the 2 diodes look like a Barkhausen diode pair indicator. The capacitor then charges from the Barkhausen noise. No?
In the anti-parallel diode config the cap is charging albeit slowly, the LED is lit, the VAC output is 3.05vp-p, the freq is 100khz, The LED is dim at 5khz, the amp draw has dropped 150ma.

I will switch to the micro wave cap and 1n4007 diode next.

I am using a wireless hub to the controller and have eliminated the pc crashes all together.

http://amasci.com/freenrg/bark.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkhausen_effect
Quote
The Barkhausen effect is a name given to the noise in the magnetic output of a ferromagnet when the magnetizing force applied to it is changed. Discovered by German physicist Heinrich Barkhausen in 1919, it is caused by rapid changes of size of magnetic domains (similarly magnetically oriented atoms in ferromagnetic materials).

Barkhausen's work in acoustics and magnetism led to the discovery, which provided evidence that magnetization affects whole domains of a ferromagnetic material, rather than individual atoms alone. The Barkhausen effect is series of sudden changes in the size and orientation of ferromagnetic domains, or microscopic clusters of aligned atomic magnets (spins), that occurs during a continuous process of magnetization or demagnetization. The Barkhausen effect offered direct evidence for the existence of ferromagnetic domains, which previously had been postulated theoretically. Heinrich Barkhausen discovered that a slow, smooth increase of a magnetic field applied to a piece of ferromagnetic material, such as iron, causes it to become magnetized, not continuously but in minute steps.
[edit] Barkhausen noise

A coil of wire wound on the ferromagnetic material can demonstrate the sudden, discontinuous jumps in magnetization. The sudden transitions in the magnetization of the material produce current pulses in the coil. These can be amplified to produce a series of clicks in a loudspeaker. This sounds as crackle, complete with skewed pulses which sounds like candy being unwrapped, Rice Krispies, or a pine log fire. Hence the name Barkhausen noise. Similar effects can be observed by applying only mechanical stresses (e.g. bending) to the material placed in the detecting coil.

These magnetization jumps are interpreted as discrete changes in the size or rotation of ferromagnetic domains. Some microscopic clusters of atomic spins aligned with the external magnetizing field increase in size by a sudden reversal of neighboring spins; and, especially as the magnetizing field becomes relatively strong, other whole domains suddenly turn into the direction of the external field. Simultaneously, due to exchange interactions the spins tend to align themselves with their neighbors. The tension between the various pulls creates avalanching, where a group of neighboring domains will flip in quick succession to align with the external field. So the material magnetizes neither gradually nor all at once, but in fits and ends
[edit] Practical use

The amount of Barkhausen noise for a given material is linked with the amount of impurities, crystal dislocations, etc. and can be a good indication of mechanical properties of such a material. Therefore, the Barkhausen noise can be used as a method of non-destructive evaluation of the degradation of mechanical properties in magnetic materials subjected to cyclic mechanical stresses (e.g. in pipeline transport) or high-energy particles (e.g. nuclear reactor). Schematic diagram of a simple non-destructive set-up for such a purpose is shown on the right.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 18, 2010, 06:03:11 AM
Did this and the air coupling to a spool / LED. Trying to find the freq where the LED lights using the stepped sweep function. I can see it flickers real fast somewhere.
Send pulse into one Pri, then send that Pri to either the Sec under it or opposing it, in either direction. Like a cannon.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 19, 2010, 05:09:58 AM
Lit a LED through the air with 440milivac and I didn't even have to go to M.I.T.. Pretty cool since it normally takes 700millvdc in a conductive loop.
It's like Tom Bearden's 'Action at a distance'.

Next I will do:
Quote
Send pulse into one Pri, then send that Pri to the Sec opposing it, in either direction. Like a cannon. I think your build will be better then mine when I test it that way this weekend.
Opposing could also mean cross couple to the other winding.

You could get a package of garden wire and roll your own like I did with the GK4. Variable configuration of a programmable iron core. 8)

As a side note: I think Armagdn03 is ERfinder. Both sets of notes match up plus other specs.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 19, 2010, 06:28:34 PM
Two bucking magnetic fields create consequent poles.  This creates more torsion at the expense of angular velocity.
t

@Sparks,
The iron ring, once energized, keeps the precession going internally and indefinately. Same as Ed's PMH. On the PMH we see it when the keeper is seperated from the iron U and the LED flashes on. The magnetism is lost also.
The opposing pulse or abrupt stoppage of the angular velocity causes the energy to emit at a perpendicular angle.

@Wattsup,
The next setup will use the opposing bifilar configuration. The current setup has the Pri and Sec going in the same direction.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 19, 2010, 06:45:45 PM
@GK

Just got to my office. All weekend my internet at home is not working due to outside telephone line trouble and it should be fixed by tonight. I left all my notes at home but just wanted to say great work and thanks for your further investigation and also your technical explanation. I can maybe show an effect or two but being able to tech talk it to others is a real gift. Thanks.

Without internet all weekend I had only to work on this further. Even though I have already shown that the FTPU can show a 60 vdc voltage rise just with the toroid pri/sec while consuming mA's, I have still given the benefit of doubt to SM and made a new mock up with the outer rings. There is nothing special to report any more then before but I would say I am only at 10% of potential trials. There is also one pulse splitting into two lines, etc., that I have not tested, but will soon enough.

So you really think @Armagdn03 is @erfinder. Geez we have not heard from ErfyBaby for a long while. If this is true, then his recent posts should be reviewed a few times. Not that @Armagdn03 by himself does not deserve the same attention, well, you know what I mean. lol (Foot in my mouth.)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 20, 2010, 12:07:01 AM
In my tenure here I have had contact, training, posts, PM, email, skype with alot of heavy hitters that we all know. And now they are gone. If I had only known what I know now I could have focused on what was being passed to me and had deeper conversations. I am still putting patterns together and making realizations.

It all started with a simple patent 382282:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat382282.pdf

As a side note:
I realized how Ed was driving the castle.
1: In happens during a full moon when the water rises under the castle
2: He pulled out the iron rod from the door so it was suspended in air
3: He slid the long tube coil on the rod
4: He strapped a bottle coil on the front generator tray
5: He set a variable capacitor on the side generator tray
6: He wired the two coils in parallel
7: He hooked the vari cap in parallel to the two coils
8: He ran a wire from the engine crank axle of the generator tied to one of the piston arm sections
9: He ran the wire out to the place of 'Blow here' turnstile.
10: He hooked his headphones to the iron door to hear the resonance
11: He pulled on the wire to force the generator to spin and kept it going
12: He used a rubber hose to blow across the bottle neck

This is how he achieved the multilayer charge and this is how he rang the bell twice.
He could have done these things from the rocker. Then when he was done he simply rolled up the hose and the wire and put everything away. :)

Back to testing:
I have the coil setup as pulsing the primary then going into its secondary opposing then into the next primary and then into its secondary opposing. both primary directions are parallel.
What is interesting is when I have the resonant freq set at 104620.7 50% duty cycle with the pulse not engaged I click the engage button and the vom across the cap jumps to 2.5 volts immediately otherwise the vom reads .971v. I do have to let the cap discharge down. The scope p-p voltage never shows anything amiss. It shows 1.5v p-p. The scope is not attached by ground or probe. The probe is merely setting on the lead between the coil run and the high side driver.
The LED never lights.

It was Armagdn03 that told me the Fet makes a difference when high sided so the coil sits next to ground.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 20, 2010, 06:37:05 AM
Hello all,

@GK

Armagdn03 was right but for a TPU its wrong to pulse it in a high side manner. I tried it and had a lot of trouble. Pulse your coils in a "normal" way!! Drain to the coils and Source to the minus, trust me its better. Much better!!

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 20, 2010, 04:51:42 PM
Hello all,

@GK

Armagdn03 was right but for a TPU its wrong to pulse it in a high side manner. I tried it and had a lot of trouble. Pulse your coils in a "normal" way!! Drain to the coils and Source to the minus, trust me its better. Much better!!

Otto

Ok. That is an easy switch. The BEMF goes negative at a greater amplitude than the original pulse height. With the High side fet I am dumping the BEMF straight to ground so I have lost energy. I also will put a conduction control diode and not let the FET internal diode perform its function. I will keep the BEMF energy charge in the coil.


THANKS Otto!

In these small tests I am doing I see the effects at single stages of testing. Last night the obvious result was the voltage shooting up to a charge level very fast at a certain frequency. I assume it is the resonance. This next step will avert the dumping of the BEMF to ground.
In using Jason's software I can manually sweep frequencies from 1khz to 5Mhz till I see the meter shoot up. Then I run an automated sweep to find the exact freq. It doesn't matter at this point but it does allow for the testing in the band to watch for other effects i.e meter jumps, LEDS lighting, etc.
By attaching the scope the LED lights up and is brighter than when it shows during resonance. That is why no devices attached.
Which leads to a very profound realization: If you want to use attached devices then that is why you must start the testing with HV or current draw greater than 1 amp. I take a bow while the crowd cheers. And certain configurations could be setup as ground losses due to a conduction path that in our case the device has to float. The use of batteries is the starting point and is an obvious clue. Why would you use batteries then connect grounded equipment to the device? In Wattsup's tests he shows isolated meters and in some tests ungrounded sig gennies. You can not ring the bell by beating the ground with the clanger or burying the bell in ground. It has to swing.

To the bench!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 20, 2010, 06:46:44 PM
@GK

Good go'in. Can't wait to hear more. Also, I really liked your ED discussion and description of operation. I can see a potential movie, staring @GK as the mad replicator. lol

I have made my FTPU mock up with top and bottom rings using lamp wire and the outer CC as one wind on top going to one on bottom with Litz wire (my new Litz of 1650 strands should be arriving tomorrow), and I am using my center toroid with two pri and two secs. I will be testing this in many ways to see if there is any different effects using both dc pulses and sound card sine waves that I can adjust the phasing. I will try this then I will make another mock up ring but this time I will wind the CCs as two per ring, in bucking mode. So you would have a toroid pri and sec in bucking mode and then the ring CCs in bucking mode also. I am suspecting that the single CC wind per ring is causing some cancellation so this CC in bucking will let me see the difference and report back. Should be rather educational although is am sort of pissed off at one thing.

Since my last video that showed voltage rise to 60 volts using 9 volts input at micro amps, that is basically all that is required by anyone to replicate the SM FTPU video. So I am wondering what is the point in trying more FTPU tests. I think that video said it all. I mean what did SM really show in the FTPU video but voltage rise. The magnet is working a reed switch that when removed opens one of the outer lines and this causes an internal capacitor to slowly decline in voltage. Nothing new there as we see this everyday.

Also, what @otto mentioned about what I simply term as "positive pulsing" versus "negative pulsing" may be very true but not for the obvious reason and this is my continuous quandary in this world of EE. We are sort of stuck in the forgetfulness of the reality of electricity and the unreality of how we see it or are taught how to look at it. Our circuits show positive exits and negative enters but in reality, it is the opposite. So, when you pulse the negative, you are actually sending impulses into an empty circuit. When you pulse the positive, the energy is already in the circuit and only connecting the final distance. The first one has empty room for resonance, the second one has a full house for more immediate effects without the delay of circuit saturation.

I would really like someone to clarify this question cause each time I look at a circuit I am always second guessing what is really going on. Is this warranted. Are we all screwy in the brains for having accepted over so many decades and decades this wrong way of looking at circuits, to the point that we even forget we are looking at the opposite event in reality, but are wondering still how the contrary would work better. Sounds crazy  but I have a hard time accepting this total irresponsibility of the higher brains to have let this drag on soo long. Or is this part of their master plan? Hmmmmmm. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 20, 2010, 10:13:14 PM
@Wattsup,
I can't resist.
The bike pedal stroke is the same circumference as the rotation of the crank shaft. He could do it off his bike.
I am planning on going again 1:) to reproduce his coils on the wall and 2:) run the castle. There is a Walmart and Home depot down the street. All I have to take are my notes.

I like your answer to Otto. If I have a BEMF blocking diode between the coil and drain that will keep the saturation at full essentially creating the bell for the ringer. I also see this 'kept charge' as the interface to connect with the Earth's field.

I like this positive going effect better.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 21, 2010, 06:10:41 AM
Hello all,
@GK

you want a bell??

Then try to pulse 2 coils in opposite directions. And look for some almost hidden signals. But this works only with a load. Any load.

Otto

PS: positive pulses
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 21, 2010, 03:23:23 PM
Schematic for last test...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 21, 2010, 10:41:09 PM
@GK

Please let us know how those tests went if anything special.

I am posting two pictures of my new Litz wire of 1650 strands of 44 awg individually insulated wire in 5 bundles.

This is like incredible wire and I will be using it in the next FTPU tests as the outer ring. This will put to the test SMs analogy of magnet over 1 wire and what would happen if past over 1000 wires. This would also equal his statement that "wire is very important". Very expensive too.

I also have an idea about the frequency being relevant to the TPU diameter. If you take any wire length and put a scope on it, you will eventually find some frequency spikes just as the wire stands there doing nothing. What if the natural ring frequency is the frequency used in the TPU. Sounds crazy but if the TPU actually worked on what I would call a passive pulsing method that he managed to develop, then this could explain many things, like having two pulses without having any of the actual conventional pulsing components, and without the actual pulsing energy source. So if the ring is connected to a small low voltage transistor (not mosfet) base, is it possible for someone to pulse a base with mV's.

If you can remember on one of the LTPU videos, when SM took out his big magnet, he first spent several seconds passing the magnet over the outer rings, putting it right against the sidewall, then he quickly passed the magnet over the toroids as if to try and switch your attention away from what he just did over the outer rings.

Also, when he puts the magnet on the FTPU, he is also putting it right next to the outer rings but we concentrate on the toroid getting the field and not the rings.

Won't discuss the OTPU because it is the oddball out, but when he puts the magnet to the STPU and 6TPU, he again puts the magnet on the sidewall.

During the last two years, we have tried approaching all sorts of magnets near energized toroids and have never really seen any effect that would spell SM's effect. The only one I have seen so far is @gotolucs' test with a neo against a toroid, but even then the effect is not that obvious. So I am more convinced now that this cannot be required for the toroid, but for the ring to start some type of pulsing on a transistor base. Either that or the magnet is just a dud. Anyways I will investigate this soon with some small transistors.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 22, 2010, 05:37:35 AM
I had done a test with 2 neo eggs in the GK4 which has an iron core. They chattered like crazy and burned my thumb nerve because I grabbed them.

Jason had suggested a bifilar pair of copper and iron wire. If you put the magnet near that it becomes a magnetic field.

William Lyne talks in great depth about the electric house meter. Iron, copper, aluminum, weak magnets and how it is an overunity device since it is constructed in a peculiar way. I put aluminum plates on my my notched pvc coil and the edges shot energy.

Lit the LED, charge cap to 1.5vdc @ 100khz.
Lightning storm coming in...

@Otto,
Tomorrow night I do the dual opposing pulses.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on April 23, 2010, 11:15:36 AM
Hello all,

my PMs doesnt work so I will answer here to a member:

Im connecting the load between the minus from power supply and a point on my coils that gives me the best light.

my coils are somehow in series connected and there is NO; NO; NO high voltage!!!! Hopefully that is finnaly and for ever clear!!!

A long time ago I wanted to rectify the output of one of my TPUs, connected a 250V/40A bridge rectifier. The output from the TPU was a few kilovolts.

Result: in only 1 minute the rectifier was blown because of a veeeery high temperature. I didnt want to understand it and tried the same with another bridge rectifier and other frequencies.
Result: the same!

But when you have a "normal" voltage on the output of your TPU then there is no problem to rectify. Of course if you think you have to rectify the output voltage of a TPU.

And now we have the question how to connect the coils:
a parallel connection was for me always a bad solution. To pulse only the primaries is also a bad solution and so my sugestion is to pulse the coils in a mixed way: primaries and secondaries together, some coils in a CW direction, some in a CCW direction....a lot of possibilities.

Otto

PS: Im weekends off line

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 23, 2010, 08:46:12 PM
@Otto,
Thanks very much.
I will pulse opposing, like inverse parallel with a bridge on it.

@Wattsup,
I wokeup!
http://cgi.ebay.com/LITZ-WIRE-10-44-250-ft-/220437116031?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335313747f
Litz wire is an obvious choice for the center toroid device.
Expense is emphasized as in 'this is the choice of the wire' on the center toroid device.
He could get many seperate xfilars with one wrap. Once again 'VERY WELL HIDDEN'!

But I have one question that I dont remember being addressed before. The center toroid winding looks like it is embedded in a hardened goop. Like he took a ratshack spool, wound iron wire around it, wrapped the litz wire on it and then gooped the device and wiped it down to expose the out portion of the windings.


@all,
Major Bloch wall jacking this weekend!
I will attach a bridge as a load.
I wire as shown.

The magamp config is a very flexible setup.
The current iron core one is bucking. If I need a none bucking coil I whip out the GK4. And it has 3 layers for even more extreme configurations. AyEEEE!

We're getting close.
http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2010/04/21/30mar10_prom_304_big.jpg




Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 24, 2010, 06:30:39 AM
@otto

Thank you for your post. I have taken it into consideration for next trials.

@GK

Good go'in as usual. That's what I have been trying to show with my toroid build with 2 pri and 2 sec. Just with that I made the 60 volts FTPU show.

Today I did not do any testing. I finished my animation of the Voltage Grabber Circuit. The damn file is 17mb. It took 223 frames to change, copy and paste into my animation program. Anyways, I put it here.

http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Wattsups%27%20stuff/voltage-grabber-circuit-VGC/

Just click on the wattsup-VGC1a.gif file.

To do the switching, if it cannot be done electronically at a low voltage consumtion, imagine using a spiked drum like in those pianos that play music without the pianist. The protruding tips coincide with the opening or closing of the caps. Put that drum on a small wind mill to get it turning. Connect all your caps. You have something like that Testatika thingy. There were a lot of caps around that device of different sizes and there was a turning something there also. lol

The main relationship between the VGC and Understanding Electricity in the TPU is that you can use the same system in the TPU. Take two or more smaller TPU outputs, put it into just 2 or 3 caps then unload all at the same time to the final output. The VGC is showing it in a grander scale but you can have as many caps in each stage as you want.

Now if we can eventually make a small TPU like the STPU or 6TPU, then 8 of these would equal the LTPU. If SM put eight 6TPUs in his LTPU or four in the MTPU, then like in the MTPU, when he cut one out with a jigsaw he was left with three. If the MTPU was a quad, he would have had 90 degrees to cut into so he was absolutely sure to only be in one because he cut about 30 degrees out of the MTPU. Sneaky guy that SM. When SM cut the MTPU, by doing so and reconnecting it to make it work at a lower voltage output, he then proved that his device did not have to be in a circle to work. lol

My next tests with Litz wire will help determine this.

Regarding the Litz you showed I have some of that. It is very thin wire, only 10 strands of 44 awg. My last purchase is 1650 strands of 44 awg.

Maybe consider this one in the 10 strands type.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1-2-lbs-28-AWG-Copper-Litz-Wire-Type-1-10-38-AWG-STRAND_W0QQitemZ120513185684QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0f254794

But this one will be better I think. But again much more expensive. Damn Litz puts your budget to Fritz.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Litz-wire-660-46-for-crystal-radio-coil-Loop-anten-60_W0QQitemZ150429059561QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23064549e9

More soon...... the weekend is just starting.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 25, 2010, 06:41:41 AM
fixed the connections
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 27, 2010, 05:26:19 AM
After this weekends tests I have come to the conclusion that the system has to float. It cannot touch the grid and cannot be grounded. The energy simply disappears. Remove the cause of the sink and the iron core secondary raises back up to +32vdc. The voltage is probably due to the iron mass, windings and awg, and the length of antenna the circuit portrays. I have a FWBR connected to the second set of coils on the secondary. The voltage stays steady. There is is no ground connection, only a positive on the first set of windings which are not connected to the opposite set. Only coupled with the iron core with no other ground connection any where else. It looks like a 1 wire device with an ambient collection going on. An LED does flicker on when crossed the FWBR dc out! So the ambient charge is slow when compared to the draw rate. Put a cap in parallel and the charging presents a load. The put an LED across the cap and the LED shoots brighter than with out the cap, naturally. I can pulse the LED at a rate of 1/sec. The LED acts as a sparkgap.
The off switch has always been off. I disconnected the battery connections and the LED still fires.
I am very impressed. This next conclusion says that the iron core is in flux contact with the earth's field and the grid emminations.

In all of SM's vids he never connects any of his devices to any ground. When he runs the drill if he would have connected to a grid ground the drill would have stopped. Remove the ground and the drill starts up.
Wattsup showed something similar when the cap discharged and then charged right back up due to his connections.

I will now switch to the dual pulse protocol on the sport model to model an air core / stranded wire. My Litz is on the way. Splitting the Litz conductors in half give a bifilar run.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 27, 2010, 07:44:34 AM
@GK

I am really happy you are seeing some results. Yes the battery negative is not always required. You can use either nothing at all or in some cases I am using my very thick battery cable wire non connected and simply put the ground to that. This is sometimes giving brighter LED.

I will have to make a new video to show my new FTPU mock up with two 1650/44 Litz top and bottom rings onto which I have wound on each ring two 175/46 Litz CCs in bucking mode. The wind was one turn at every 1/4" or there abouts. I connected the top and bottom CCs as @gotolucs mode then put them in series and put only one connection to the PG. I managed now to get about 60 volts dc loaded onto a dioded cap off the rings that are in a special wind that is two complicated to describe so I will show it in the video.

So now I have shown that in the FTPU, I can do the 60 volts show with either the toroid or the ring/CCs. Next is too see any advantage in marrying them together but all this is telling me so much already about the TPU.

First thing is this,

When you look at the FTPU toroid, it is not the same as the LTPU toroids. There was a progression in SMs thinking. In his FTPU he only showed voltage because that is all he could show, like that is all we can show with a toroid that has two equal coils. He wound the toroid with equal number of turns and method. This is my main quandary right now to see if it is worth it or not to push the FTPU any further because I think I have done it and shown 60 volts with peanuts at micro-amps. In the OTPU, sorry to say but he cheated on the amperage otherwise he would have used simple bulb and socket to make the point 100% clear. Again his OTPU showed only voltage because his toroid again had equal winds.

It is only when he arrived at the STPU and 6TPU that we can now see some 1 amp or less with around 100 volts or more. This is where the big leap happened in SMs thinking, and I think I know what he did and then why this new changes made him produce a new center toroid when making the LTPU. He learned how to compress more of the energy.

SM says it is a conversion device. He did not say a transformer that would simply have just a primary and secondary. Step up, step down all without any gain because your are just trading volts for amps. He said a conversion device because there are more steps then a simple transformer. What I think is he is using low voltage pulsing to produce high voltage onthe outer rings, then he is using high voltage step down to produce a usable output. But the question is where the hell does this occur in the TPU and this pushes me right back to the toroid in the FTPU. The wires are not the same in the FTPU and LTPU.

We usually make our transformers with 1,2,3 or 4 coils. On toroids, we usually see 1,2,3 or 4 coils. All depending on how we want to step up or step down the volts/amps. But what if you go really overboard. Like as shown below. Both sides of the coil would look exactly the same and since the center had epoxy filler, you would never know how the toroid was really made. otherwise why take the time to make a filler an mounting on a base plate. His main secret was in plain sight and he knew that visually, know one could figure it out unless they made variations, etc.

The image below shows a left coil of 36 turns and on the right side you have 12 coils of 3 turns. I am showing the right winds going outside the toroid for clarity but in reality they will be heading inwards towards the toroid center. Now if you only just pulse the left coil, what type of juice will come out of the paralleled 12 coils of 3 turns each. As the flux turns around the toroid core, what effect would it have as it passes those smaller coils in parallel. That will be left to discover in the next moves because for me there is not really that many more variables to answer. If it works on a toroid, then his STPU and 6TPU will also use this method but in a different manner. @otto may be very right to say you need a core.

So more fun to come.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: stprue on April 27, 2010, 06:13:28 PM
@Wattsup

This sounds like a really good direction to move in!  I remember hearing SM mention running a magnet accross a long wire to get a large amount of voltage and then him comparing that by doing the same thing to thousands of of smaller wires.  This would be like the picture you posted with litz wire.

Very interesting!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 27, 2010, 07:04:19 PM
@w,
Way cool.
Your right side windings look just like Bruce's. I know that he used steel windings in the control coils. In your picture on the right side I am trying to figure out how and where the 2 windings that did not wrap around the 3 layers fully are hidden or where they wrap to in SM's pictures.
If SM made those and not using the blade terminal connections fits in with him hiding things.
With that I can see these little guys made just like yours and Bruce's with garden wire cores.
I will wind a 4 inch one in approximation to the GK4, GK3 and Mighty little.
3 layers using 3 horizontal turns of iron garden wire on each layer. 30awg vertical wound in 3 sections overlapping like in your right hand side section.
Same number of turns but differing lengths has got me thinking. Bruce used stranded copper cores with steel control windings. There he was able to get a magnetic element into his coils. Even though the windings are perpendicular he was able to create a pulsing magnetic toroidal field around the stranded copper core. Precession comes to mind.

With the difference of the magnetic field aligned with the core or in the control coils the pulsing magnetic field still expands and collapses across the perpendicular copper. The stranding also gives a slight angle to the perpendicularity so the flux can still be broken across a wire.

The really great news is I left the capacitor charging across the coil all night, again no power! Nada, not even a battery connection! Stuck an LED across it this morning and BAM! The LED popped! I didn't even think about putting a meter on it. I wonder what that the voltage was. I have 50vdc now.
This all points to major Bloch wall manipulation. A major inrush occurs when the circuit potential is released.

Also now I believe the ECD was just a build to show electrostatic energy and not anything one could pull power from. It is a copper core so with no magnetic capabilities the core field would vanish very quickly as in no latency or storage capability.


Attached:
Itty bitty iron cores of iron garden wire of 3 turns.
First layer, 4 inch diameter done with 22awg rat shack.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 28, 2010, 05:55:04 AM
3 iron core layers stacked and triple wound all the way around. 1st layer wound, 2nd & 1st layer, 3rd & 2nd & 1st wound.
Red is primary. Will put all in series as in to the primary then the 1st wind and to the 1st layer core then the 2nd wind and to the 2nd layer core, then the 3rd wind and to the 3rd layer core and out. This will fire like a 3 secondary Tesla coil combination pancake hybrid. It worked on the GK4 no reason why it shouldn't work with this one, the GK10. I will couple each successive coil with a BEMF blocking diode to effectively produce a charge pump.

This build took 5 hours. I can crank these out now. The core loops are wound around a duct tape roll and held in place with shrink tubing. 22awg wraps and stays in place. Would have like to use 30awg but too messy. This little guy should kick butt.

@Wattsup,
If I need to match your drawing specifically I can. But there are 1000 ways to skin a cat. This unit will do the trick. Small too! The wife likes that. Seems safer, ha ha! Should charge up by itself.

Update on iron ring:
It ambiently charges up to 125vdc! Now we know why the LED blows. With the meter left in place it only charges to 33vdc. The meter internals cause this. If I hook the meter up and let the ring charge settle down to 33vdc then the current isn't enuff to blow the LED but just light it. Very interesting build.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Magluvin on April 28, 2010, 06:01:42 AM
Looks good Killer

What ya gunna drive it with?


Mags
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 28, 2010, 07:54:59 AM
@GK

OK. OK.

Time to make a new ring configuration because the standard one does not make sense.

When you pulse a coil that is wound over a wire, the coil will have a south, a blotch and a north.

So you can wind a coil over that blotch wall to reinforce it.

But that next coil also has a blotch.

So you wind a coil over that to reinforce that one also.

The coils just go in series from the first to the last.

So imagine what will happen when the first coil reinforces the second coil that reinforces the third coil that reinforces the fourth coil that is wound over the center wire. How much south and north potential will be on that wire?

I will try a variation of this with a new FTPU build and see the difference between that one and the one I just made. lol
This will give a real point of comparison. I put a diagram of my next wind below. You see the black coil has two turns on top and one turn on the bottom. The red coil is two turns on the bottom and one turn on the top. The one turns are placed in the center of the two turns so that half the two turns at each end are not influenced. Will make this tomorrow and test it out in the same manner as before.

In the ECD, The CC primary and secondary are all wound together so two coils have big blotch walls that are not reinforced and all over the place.

So as soon as you wind one coil over another coil and those two coils are the same length, you are just doubling the blotch and not reinforcing it. By reinforcing it, I mean this will make the wire have the smallest blotch wall possible and increase the percentage taken up by the north/south forces.

SM said you wind one coil, then another over it, but he never said completely over it. lol

So in your photo above where you have the isolated iron core wind and have that complete coil wound over it, think of adding another coil over that coil but only half the length and have the new coils center be at the first coils center. Then on that second coil make another coil half of the second and so on for as many as you want. Then you can play with how to connect them in series. And you will be able to just pulse the first one to see what the difference is when you add another and another.

All coils have blotch walls and this is the weakest point in the coil because at each end the potentials are so concentrated to become true north or south fields or positive and negative potentials, it is harder to influence these areas with coil overs. So you are better off hitting the blotch wall, and the blotch wall that just gets hit will better reflect it to the coil ends or polarities.

More soon.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 28, 2010, 06:06:16 PM
@wattsup,
I see what you say here. I can add and add and add. Your last pic that shows the shorter and shorter coils is the Dollard, evgray, Tesla multipactor. As in multiple compaction at the Bloch wall section.
Also I can connect the 3 separate  iron cores in a mobius / vortext spiral. The combinations are numerous. I can add iron jumpers to close the iron rings.
The red primary is bollo-ed with that nylon connector. I can shift the primary along the circumference.
I will use this build as a base and add the overlay necessary coils.

It's small and fits on the work bench. That is a primary concern of mine. If the coils are as big as a drain pipe or manhole cover that draws negative attention from the unknowledgable. 'Big is bad' syndrome.

So for you guys reading this, here is the household political engineering: Keep the devices small and go to bed on time to reduce any suspicion. To a woman the 4" coil is very 'jewelry' like. If it gets to be the size of drill then problems occur. It begins to look like machinery or weaponization. Old PC cases also become very good shields to testing and hide the devices. The common cry is 'What are you doing with all those PCs? They don't even work!'. Wuhahahaha!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Magluvin on April 28, 2010, 06:32:43 PM
Killer
Are you suggesting that if someone builds this, that THEY are out looking for and able to detect if someone is running such a device?

Mags
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 28, 2010, 10:14:55 PM
I have fried a cable box, tripped GFIs and scrambled routers in other parts of the house.

The signature is very damning and outside of the normal spectrum.

Have not the previous men stood up? I don't think so. Only brave clandestine attempts can be made to deliver.

Killer
Are you suggesting that if someone builds this, that THEY are out looking for and able to detect if someone is running such a device?

Mags

I have the second coil made to spec for testing.
The iron core in the right side coil is mobiously connected in a vortex configuration. The core loops in layer 1 then jumps up to layer 2 then jumps up to layer 3 then jumps back down to layer 1. It is configured like a permanent magnet holder.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on April 29, 2010, 11:22:36 PM
Killer
Are you suggesting that if someone builds this, that THEY are out looking for and able to detect if someone is running such a device?

Mags
Might be but I took it to be GK's wife saver routine.   ;D    If these are really doing damage around the house though it would sound like possibly scalar energy getting loose.  Hopefully not though as I think that's a bit hard to shield. 
  GK,  in a recent post you said you were getting 125 volts out of a coil just sitting?  No pulse circuit hooked up?  While I saw SM's TPU stuff many years ago I just found a renewed interest here recently.  With all the big boxes of cable and wire I've got sitting around I think a TPU is a project waiting to happen here...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 30, 2010, 12:40:59 AM
Yes. I was refering to wife. The 4" set of coils are working models of 18" diameter version. The 18" models were too visible as in big is bad. You get the picture?: Big coils, boxes crashing, wall outlets vibrating...
She saw the big coils and blamed them without knowing. I removed them. Now I know why mad scientists live alone. The political shuffling is killing me. Anyway...

And yes I only have 3 fet driver boards hooked up. Dead! I tell ya! No battery connections and no instrument connections or grounds. I have been disconnecting everything to find the source. Probably just a big antenna. I place my isolated VOM on the bridge output momentarily just to see the 125vdc. If I leave the meter on it settles to 33vdc. So: meter off circuit the coil pops LEDS / meter on circuit the LED momentarily flashes bright and the voltage drops, remove LED the voltage moves back to 33vdc. Put the LED back on the 'Meter on circuit' and the LED momentarily flashes bright and the voltage drops. Like an ambient Joule thief. It is a rats nest of jumper leads.

I will youtube it and show the mess but will clarify the 'no connections' visually. Bolt told me 2-1/2 years ago to get on batteries. I have been off the grid in my experiemtns ever since. I even bought an isolated OWON portable scope/vom.

Why me, Lord? I just want a TPU! It is just a small request but I have to go to both ends of the universe and learn everything in the middle? Agh!

This is not a trick or fanfare play. I don't have time for games. This is just a byproduct of something else I was pursuing. As Alexander Graham Bell exclaimed "x*-34fgr!" when he got burnt by acid as he was trying to invent the telephone. Go figure. When the LED popped I exclaimed 'Ah, damn!' Then I researched the problem out to find it was something needed all along. Guess I'll go down in the history books as a famous inventor too. ;D

Might be but I took it to be GK's wife saver routine.   ;D    If these are really doing damage around the house though it would sound like possibly scalar energy getting loose.  Hopefully not though as I think that's a bit hard to shield. 
  GK,  in a recent post you said you were getting 125 volts out of a coil just sitting?  No pulse circuit hooked up?  While I saw SM's TPU stuff many years ago I just found a renewed interest here recently.  With all the big boxes of cable and wire I've got sitting around I think a TPU is a project waiting to happen here...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 30, 2010, 06:14:00 AM
I thought I would leave this previous text in place.
I found the slow leak / charge. I could not find it before. It is a ground loop. I disconnected everything and found a connection from the ground of the Controller board to the ground of the desk scope. The loop consists of the meter to the bridge to the coil to the fet driver board to the controller to the scope ground. The connect from the coil to the fet board is a positive connection. So before as I disconnected items the cap across the bridge output kept the meter reading stable. I have been duped by an allusive connection.

Many apologies are in order. Too many tests going at once on the bench. But honesty is better than prestidigitation.

I can continue on with the next tests more aware now of hidden enemies that lurk just under vision.

Yes. I was refering to wife. The 4" set of coils are working models of 18" diameter version. The 18" models were too visible as in big is bad. You get the picture?: Big coils, boxes crashing, wall outlets vibrating...
She saw the big coils and blamed them without knowing. I removed them. Now I know why mad scientists live alone. The political shuffling is killing me. Anyway...

And yes I only have 3 fet driver boards hooked up. Dead! I tell ya! No battery connections and no instrument connections or grounds. I have been disconnecting everything to find the source. Probably just a big antenna. I place my isolated VOM on the bridge output momentarily just to see the 125vdc. If I leave the meter on it settles to 33vdc. So: meter off circuit the coil pops LEDS / meter on circuit the LED momentarily flashes bright and the voltage drops, remove LED the voltage moves back to 33vdc. Put the LED back on the 'Meter on circuit' and the LED momentarily flashes bright and the voltage drops. Like an ambient Joule thief. It is a rats nest of jumper leads.

I will youtube it and show the mess but will clarify the 'no connections' visually. Bolt told me 2-1/2 years ago to get on batteries. I have been off the grid in my experiments ever since. I even bought an isolated OWON portable scope/vom.

Why me, Lord? I just want a TPU! It is just a small request but I have to go to both ends of the universe and learn everything in the middle? Agh!

This is not a trick or fanfare play. I don't have time for games. This is just a byproduct of something else I was pursuing. As Alexander Graham Bell exclaimed "x*-34fgr!" when he got burnt by acid as he was trying to invent the telephone. Go figure. When the LED popped I exclaimed 'Ah, damn!' Then I researched the problem out to find it was something needed all along. Guess I'll go down in the history books as a famous inventor too. ;D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on April 30, 2010, 01:16:53 PM
@GK

Would not be the first time that has happenned to me. I have to move my voltage meter away from the pulse lines because it can catch the pulse and send it directly into my cap tank. So very delicate effects have to even be cancelled to make sure what you are seeing is in fact what is being produced in the intended manner. lol

Regarding the last two coils you made and shown above, let me just understand.

The right coil in your above photo is a three iron 3 turn ring each wound over in one wind of 360 degrees, each then stacked all covered with a fourth wind over of 360 degrees. A GK331. I would not put the rings in mobius since there is no where for it to go. I would pulse the three outer ring coils and collect on the rings in parallel. I would pulse positive at the same side of three parallel coils but invert the 2nd one. Then I would put a tap on the fourth outer coil center point giving the outer coil three connection points to which each of the inner three coils other ends will go. The second coil should go to the outer coil center tap. The first and third ends could go either way.

The left coil in your photo is a one iron 3 turns ring wound over with 180 degrees, from 0-180 to the ring relation, then over coiled with four halfer lengths, all wound the same way, all sharing the same blotch center that would be in this case 90 degrees to the ring relation. A GK135, Need I say more on that one. Can't wait to play with one of those too.

Now to figure how to drive it with one frequency. That's gonna be fun. So, many ways, I agree.

On my end I wanted to post a photo of my last build before I do the biasing rings. At 7.08mhz, drawing 14.4 micro amps on one wire pulsed, lights up the 5 volts leds and load the dioded cap to 5.87vdc steady. When the led is removed the voltage rises to 50 volts or around. So this coiling is doing the same thing as the toroid was doing.

In this build two individual rings start at the top, go in opposing directions, come back and go down to the bottom ring in the same direction as they left the top ring, makes one turn each and comes out where they are connected together, so the output is the top two ring wires. The pulsed CCs are in bucking mode, in series as follows.

Pulse enters top right front, exits top right back,
enters bottom right front, exits bottom right back,
enters bottom left front, exits bottom left back,
enters top left front, exits top left back and just sits there open ended. lol

About finding ones signatures, would it not be harder to see a source in the city then if one was in the country. Would the city be a better mask.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on April 30, 2010, 07:17:23 PM
@Wattsup,
I went back and read the 1st post of this thread and the building faster than thinking struck at me. We have all built way too fast. But at this stage the builds are more intense in their geometry and are simple to throw together. Having said that then ponder this:
In my left coil, GK135 (the name will stick), the inner most coil (6"), could use a gap in the middle. This would model after Smith's and Kunel's where that is apparent. I Believe Tesla, Dollard, and EVGray did the same thing but used a spacer to build up the center so the outer primary sat farther out in diameter. That would be a good way to hide a technology. Nobody thinks about 'Rippin and strippin'. The mind just assumes there is a continuous wind and if someone asked or I said 'continuous' then no one would think to ask. And by hiding that simple little gap one could disable any further attempts. The gap gives a weak magnetic field. And I think it is mandatory. Also on your last pic of the 2 horizontal rings the weak magnetic field if horizontally between the rings.

The Bloch wall in space is the mandatory key because it takes too much energy to manipulate the Bloch wall in a magnet.

In the attached: the blue is the suspended primary, the red is the secondary and the gray is the weak magnetic field in the gap.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on May 01, 2010, 01:36:13 PM
...The gap gives a weak magnetic field. And I think it is mandatory. Also on your last pic of the 2 horizontal rings the weak magnetic field if horizontally between the rings.

The Bloch wall in space is the mandatory key because it takes too much energy to manipulate the Bloch wall in a magnet.

In the attached: the blue is the suspended primary, the red is the secondary and the gray is the weak magnetic field in the gap.


...It's important that you understand that these lattice cells never touch one another, and there is a reason why they do not. It is all part of the communication within the lattice. Energy transfer within the lattice also mimics physics at the smallest levels -- also being atomic structures that do not touch. It also mimics the most elegant part of your body -- the part that is responsible for your thinking -- for your memory -- for your remembrance, and for your reactions -- the Human brain. The synapse parts (the wiring) within that organ do not touch either. These are the ways of the physics attributes that transmit (or relay) energy. It is not new. Look for it, for it's everywhere...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 01, 2010, 04:11:52 PM
@GK @GK @GK

I had prepared a post but will not post it because I re-read your last post and I just clicked on something that may be a damn good answer to producing a moving field.

The biggest problem is how to make the field move inside a coil so that an outer wound coil can actually feel that there is movement in order to get energized. We usually pulse one coil and then  hit the resonant frequency and we get something out of the other coil but not much. We use AC transformers and even they have limitations because by alternating the polarities, all you are doing is switching the poles but keeping the blotch wall in the same location.

Based on the above, I think I am realizing what SM meant by pulse and apply a small voltage. The small voltage is a starting point to pre-energize the coil then you apply your pulse to it. That is OK, but we have tried this many time without any real good results. So what are we doing wrong?????????????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

What if the pulse is in the wrong location. What if the pulse should not enter the coil but be used to alter the coil.

What if you take a long core or a toroidal core. You wind one coil all around the core or toroid and you snip the coil at the center most point (as you clicked it in my brainiac with your post) and lengthen those two wires. So you now have two coils. When connected back together and when you apply a DC voltage, the field is long or complete over the toroid and well defined with a north and south ends and a generous blotch wall at 180 degrees. So then, all you do is redirect the two center wires to make two smaller half coils that will now produce four polarities and two small blotch walls at 90 degrees and 270 degrees to a toroidal relation.

Since last night I have dropped everything to get this point across and have made the diagram below to better explain it then my low level talks. So if you wind a coil over the first coils, you should get some great movement at low cost. So imagine a toroid with four inner coils, quads and you do this same thing on two blotch centers or even on the four blotch centers. What would the Lenz law say about this. I don't know but I think this has to be looked at extremely seriously.

In the diagram I am showing a simple relay switching. If transformers can work at 60hz, why not this. Or whatever way if possible to do with transistors. Whatever it is, it needs to be looked at ASAP. Guys, please copy this diagram and the post on your computers in case it gets removed. lol

We never know what can be a seed for thought. This is why we are all here.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 01, 2010, 06:47:55 PM
@Rosphere!, Wattsup!,
Everything is a clear as a bell. I studied constantly over the last two years to see the bottom line. In backtracking through what Grumpy posted he stated everything pertainent to this Bloch wall manipulation process. From subatomic kinetics to interface with the material structures.
The reason I posted the Bloch wall manipulation is this is the engine in all the designs and configurations, no matter what!
Even in the Joule thief where the BEMF reverses the flux flow instantaneous. The feedback coil  for the transistor base reads this impulse. Dollard expresses this emphatically in his 'Introduction to Dielectricity and capacitance' paper. And it is the key statement in the 'Cosmic lattice' paper.

My next build is 3 layers of bifilar, stranded lamp cord, with two coils on each wound in bucking mode. The BFG2000 was wound with 3 phase in compliance and not bucking, same with the dual control coils on each segment but they can be pulsed in opposition. But aside from that I want a model of true opposition or bucking because of the 90 and 270 degrees Bloch wall alignment. Those first itty bitty coils I wound months ago when stacked (like the last Wattsup photo) crashed my PC. Quite rudimentary and disastrous. But quite obvious in the approach and process!
I will be out of town May 5 to 19. I might be online. But tonight I will build this coil and see. I also believe many others don't have a clue as to what we are talking about.

The last diagram has been snagged.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 01, 2010, 08:01:22 PM
@ALL

This morning I went to my EE surplus and got some good micro relays DPDT 5vd that just snap into my breadboard.

Since it is a mechanical relay, I just wanted to see if this worked or not. At 60hz with a 1vdc supply to the coil, a single FTPU style ring is loading 4 vdc into my cap tank. If I go higher in hertz, everything drops. Also, if i go lower then 50% duty, everything drops. I am just a little shy from lighting my LED bank which is at 5 volts. But this is just great because it is only at 60hz. I can image if a transistor control could be made with up to 50% duty but going down to 10% duty, I am sure SM could have gotten his 60 volts at 5000 hertz.

We just need to make a circuit for this but I am not savvy enough for that. I get to miked up wit the source-drain-directions. Or maybe an H bridge will do it. I will find one on ebay while I test my other coils and toroids and even standard transformers, at 60 hertz they should perform the best. I have AC toroids with dual primary and dual secondary, that will be interesting to test.

@GK

If you are trying this, please, before you wind anything bucking mode, consider regular continuous mode instead. Doing this in bucking will work but it will depend on how you extract. If in a ring maybe it will be better regular mode so the back and forth blotch movement favors a particular direction. Anyways the combinations are limitless. Holy shit. Limitless and it works.

But notice in the diagram the applied polarity to the coil extremities does not change. This is what I mean by favoring a direction. Maybe the bucking mode will move in both. I tested it. It does work but not as good as the regular mode, meaning the long coils is just getting shorted, hen lengthened, then shortened, etc. It is not turning around like alternating current. I will make a video but not know with what I have is not interesting enough. He He He.

Shit how to do this faster.  *&&*?$%#((*?)*%*$*?%(&)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 03, 2010, 07:55:53 AM
Got 3 5" loops wound. Will put on dual serial control coils tomorrow night.
Life happens while we are doing other things.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 03, 2010, 02:38:28 PM
@GK

I asked @groundloop to please take a look at my circuit diagram above to see if there is any way of making a pulsing circuit that can go up to 10mhz. Or even 20mhz for my FG to pulse it.

I tried many coil schemes during the weekend with this method and the results are very good despite the fact that I am probably only getting 20% true results because of the low pulsing rate of my relays (1 to 100 hertz maximum). I need to do this with mosfets and maybe a p-channel and n-channel can be used for the left and right relay contacts but what to do with the center relay.

Man if I can get this to pulse at higher frequencies to "resonate" I think this will produce some great voltage and amperage on many of my coil builds.

More soon.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Groundloop on May 03, 2010, 08:17:04 PM
@wattsup,

I have tried to design something but need the switch logic.
In what order do you switch the coils?

GL.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 03, 2010, 08:36:05 PM
@groundloop

It all happens at the same time.

At relay off only the center contact connects and completes the circuit for both coils in series.

At on, the center relay contact opens and the left relay contact closes and sends the positive to the green coil and the right relay contact closes also and sends the negative to the violet coil.

It is not like the H-Bridge since I am not sending power on the off mode, only connecting the coils together that already are connected on both ends to the power source.

Hope this helps. Thanks a heep for looking at this.

wattsup

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Groundloop on May 03, 2010, 08:38:50 PM
@wattsup,

Just to make sure, When the center relay is open then both the other two are closed?
(And opposite.)

GL.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 03, 2010, 09:07:38 PM
@wattsup,

Just to make sure, When the center relay is open then both the other two are closed?
(And oposite.)

GL.

Yes, that is correct.

When the center is connected (the two other are open) the two coils make one long coil. When it opens, it makes two coils but they need their corresponding polarities reconnected hence the two others close to supply the polarities.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Groundloop on May 03, 2010, 09:44:15 PM
@wattsup,

Check your email.

GL.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 03, 2010, 11:23:19 PM
In the last Schematic posted by Wattsup there would be a major difference in circuit operation by selecting relays compared to a soft switch / silicon component.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 04, 2010, 01:20:08 AM
@GK

I asked @groundloop to help in a circuit which he did today with thanks man.

The circuit will have three mosfets, 6 transistors, a control IC and caps and resistors, etc. I really did not think it would have been so complicated to make such a simple control but what do I know. I will make the circuit and test it out. It should be good up to 18mhz so this will be such a great tool to test with. Once the circuit proves OK, I will post the schematic since @groundloop prefers I do not post it before it has proven itself, which is a good way to go about this.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 04, 2010, 04:48:26 AM
a 50 nanosecond pulse @ 50% is 25 nanosecond on time with a 10 nanosecond rise and fall should do the trick. You gonna be able to get 5 nanosecond?
I was hoping to have the controller that Jason is building. It does 20megahertz. 50 nanosecond rise and fall time showed promise on the bifilar lamp test we did with his previous controller.

IST has a vid where he puts a magnet next to the core to raise the freq.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 07, 2010, 02:57:34 PM
@All

Just to let you guys know that I have been working on a potential control circuit with the great help of @groundloop. The problem of switching as shown in my diagram as shown above on this page by @GK is much more difficult then one would think. lol

It may be an omen, but this ties directly into the question I had asked on Post #1. Pulsing a coil is a dime a dozen. Switching them as shown above is another thing.

SM once said it took him a long time to work out the control circuit for his TPUs and this may be one of the reasons why it is so hard to do.

You can do it with relays but they will stop pulsing at around 100 hertz. So what to do if you want to go up to 20mhz when even a low 5000 hertz is very difficult to do.

Hopefully during the weekend we will see some advancement.

wattsup

PS:

In my Voltage Grabber CIrcuit, I am showing that in order to accomplish something like increasing voltage and amperage, you have to concretely attract, hold, multi-store, multiply, restore, multiply and restore again in order to have the energy "grow" in the circuit.

Anyone doing Free Energy research has to contend with this one fact. If you do JT then you are stepping across one or two of the stages in the VGC but you will still eventually have to use the VGC as a later stage. Whether you shuffle with 2, 3 or more caps then discharge them into a bigger one afterward, the system will still need this way of accumulating the amperage. Or find me another way that can concretely do this.

You can pulse a coil until the cows come home. But just pulsing will not do and finding a miracle pulse method will eventually require that coils be switched around otherwise you will never make a field move. It will just explode and implode over the same space and create a resonance radiant energy.

Now radiant energy is not bad because you can have 100s of smaller circuits catching it all and then do the same thing as the VGC. You can have one circuit catching some of the energy and use it to bias the rings. You can use another one to drive a pulse circuit. Etc. All these can be driven via radiant energy and each circuit would remain totally isolated form the others while working on the same core(s) or laminations.

Anyways, more soon.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 08, 2010, 10:35:55 PM
@All

I asked @groundloop if it is OK to put up the following circuit diagram he made which is what he is building for testing as I will be doing also. The diagram is not an end product grade since there will definitely be some changes. he also sent this photo of his circuit. Looks nice. Mine will definitely not look as nice as this. I will put up a photo once I make it for new version.

But this diagram follows pretty well what I had in mind, yes in my Simpletons' mind, lol, was to use not more then three mosfets, but we will see if it works out well enough to move a blotch wall and hence to move a field. The original circuit was not as elaborate and my tests were not showing good results, so hopefully this next diagram will be OK.

The basic function is this.

Pulse off, both coils are connected in series to make one coil all wound the same way. The coils should not be wound in bucking mode. At pulse on, the coils become two coils with their individual positive and negative potentials.

More soon.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Groundloop on May 09, 2010, 12:25:52 PM
@All,

Test of two coil switch circuit.

The circuit does not uses any current up
to 5,6 volt with no function generator input.
Above 5,6 volt I start to get a DC bias
to the gate of the transistors and the circuit
will start to use current.

With a low frequency input (12KHz) and with a
function generator signal of 20 volt, the circuit
starts to switch current at Ub 0,2 volt. At 1 volt
the current into the circuit is 1,7 Ampere. This is
with a low frequency.

At high frequency (5MHz), the circuit starts to
use current at 3 volt. At 4 volt the Ub current
is 1,6 Ampere. At 4,2 volt the Ub current
is 2,6 Ampere and the transistors and ultra
fast diodes starts to heat up a little.

The circuit runs at 4.0 volt with a Ub current
at 0,78 Ampere when tuned to the ferrite core coils
resonant frequency (in my case 1,53MHz).

I inserted a Ferrite rod into the coils. I then
added a 40 turn coil to the rod. Connected two
small light bulbs (2,5v / 0,2A) in series to
the extra coil. At no frequency from 25KHz
to 5MHz did I get any light in the bulbs.

The circuit seems to switch both the high
coil, the low coil and also the middle
connection between the coils when the Ub
voltage is lower than 4 volt.

I do not have a o-scope at home right now
so more testing is needed to verify the circuit
operation.

Attached is a image of my Ferrite rod coils and bulbs.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 09, 2010, 05:13:48 PM
@groundloop

Thanks for your great help in getting this circuit up and going. I made mine and put two photos below. It does not look like your since I am making everything on a terminal block and no soldering in case I blow things. Force of habit. lol

I am using two IRF840 (n-channel) and one IRF9540 (p-channel) and unfortunately my EE surplus place does not have those fast switching diodes but I will find them. For now I am using standard didoes but the circuits seems to work OK. I can see pulsing on both sides of the p-channel drain and source, something I could not do before so this tell me it works.

For me, this will open a whole new world of pulsing potential. I have been thinking of the optimal coil build for this pulsing method.

Once I have mastered the circuit usage I will make a video to show guys what this thing can do. More fun.

Thanks again.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Groundloop on May 09, 2010, 05:36:51 PM
@wattsup,

Great build! Yes it is smart to use a "rat nest" configuration when testing. I just blew one of
my mosfets and has to solder in a new one. :-) Just remember that if you want to switch at
high frequency then you need to keep those wires as short as possible. Also remember that the
maximum current you can switch is limited by the diodes used. Also, this circuit will start to
bias the transistors at around 5,6 volt (4 volt with signal input), so keep the Ub voltage at a
safe level.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 18, 2010, 02:58:11 PM
@Groundloop

Thanks for your e-mail and will post here an answer.

Been around just reading threads while I test this circuit.

Have tried it on a variety of coil configs but I think the pulsing is not working as it should. Putting my scope at the D and S of the P-channel mosfet, since this is where the main switch transfer to the coils will occur, I see both waveforms are pointing in the same direction, or, rising and falling together, but it seems to me they should be opposite. One should be rising and other falling.

Also, applying DC input does nothing to the circuit so this is telling me the mosfets are not pulsing the way they should.

I am getting the same led lighting results just with the FG positive (no negative connected - lol).

So there is something wrong.

I still ave not found a local supply of the BYV29-500 diodes but I did try a whole host of different diodes and this does in fact make major difference in output but still no pulsing of the mosfets. Diodes are very important.

I will have to make a video of this so you can get a real sense of how I am testing this.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Groundloop on May 18, 2010, 03:46:17 PM
@wattsup,

Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.

The first thing that pops into my mind is the coils. Have you tried to invert one of the
coils? This will invert the negative kickback from the coil. Also, how big are the coils.
Did you select coils that have a resonant frequency for the FG frequency you use?

>>Also, applying DC input does nothing to the circuit so this is telling me the mosfets
>>are not pulsing the way they should.

This is worrying. In my circuit I could "pump" enough power into the coils to
light up a small light bulb. (Must add that I needed low frequency and lost
of turns on the output coil.)

What DC voltage did you use on the circuit?

I do not have a o-scope at home right now but I will borrow one and test a little
more on my circuit this weekend.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 18, 2010, 05:07:57 PM
@Groundloop

Thanks for your response. Much appreciated and also all the work you put into getting this "starter" circuit. Starter because I think this will eventually become more complicated.

Although the initial idea of having two coils wound in the same direction with a switching point at dead center seems simple enough, it is actually more complicated then one would expect and kind of hard to grasp the overall concept of how these coils really act at their switching points.

You see, when the coils are connected in series it makes one long coil and the p-channel D and S are actually swimming in the coils blotch region where polarity is very difficult to define in absolute terms. Those D and S points need a definitive polarity to switch.

When the Gate has no pulse on it, the D and S are not connected just like the two n-channels are not connected, so in this off pulse, the two coils are not connected and cannot actually make one center blotch wall. When all the mosfets get a pulse, then all are connected and I think the p-channel is then acting like a master bypass canceling the n-channels attempt to bring new polarities to the switch point. So all the circuit is doing is connecting and disconnected the blotch wall without bringing new polarities to the switch points.

Man, this is very complicated because it is not like just making a specific circuit for a specific linear task. You need to have a more in depth understanding of what is happening at those switching points. I guess that is why mosfets are mainly used at the coil ends and not in the middle. lol

A question I have is..........

Is there a mosfet that works in reverse and I don't mean the D and S going from positive to negative or from negative to positive. What I mean is when there is no pulse, the D and S are connected, instead of being non connected at no pulse. Like in a normal relay has N/O and N/C contacts, is there a mosfet that can have one or the other, or are all mosfets made to work the same way. Always N/O.

What a freak out this is.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 18, 2010, 11:54:48 PM
...
A question I have is..........

Is there a mosfet that works in reverse and I don't mean the D and S going from positive to negative or from negative to positive. What I mean is when there is no pulse, the D and S are connected, instead of being non connected at no pulse. Like in a normal relay has N/O and N/C contacts, is there a mosfet that can have one or the other, or are all mosfets made to work the same way. Always N/O.
...

Hi wattsup,

The MOSFET type you need is called depletion mode MOSFETs, they normally conduct at zero gate-source voltage. One of the manufacturers is ixys.com and see some type of them here:
http://www.ixys.com/Product_portfolio/products_link.asp?framepage=ixyspower_contact.htm&framepage1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ixyspower.com%2Fstore%2FFamily.aspx%3Fi%3D3

for instance a 200V device has 0.073 Ohm D-S resistance at zero volt gate-source voltage, see http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/DS100260%28IXTH-T16N20D2.pdf

However there are some power JFETs (junction FET) that conduct at zero gate-source voltage pretty nicely. Probably rather expensive, I do not know prices. 
An advantage with respect to the above depletion mode MOSFET is that jfets do not have any body diode between the drain-source whic is an unavoidable "blessing" for power MOSFETs.
See type SJDP120R085 from semisouth.com,  data sheet is here:
http://www.semisouth.com/products/uploads/DS_SJDP120R085_rev1.0.pdf

Fig. 8 in page 4 shows drain-source resistance between  -1V to +2V gate-source control voltage, at zero volt it has 0.068 Ohm resistance.

This is an N-channel type jfet, it needs a negative gate voltage wrt its source to switch it off. (Data sheet says this range is -6 to -4V.)

Probably there are some other makes from others, if you search key words 'normally on FET'.  But not many.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 19, 2010, 12:40:26 AM
@gyulasun

Thanks for your post. It puts a good light at the end of the tunnel that I was considering today as being rather black and bleak. I will look up these components and see which ones are suitable for this type of switching requirements.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 19, 2010, 03:16:25 AM
Yes this makes perfect sense indeed.

P_Channel on positive side
Depletion Mode N-Channel on center
N_Channel on negative side

Tomorrow I will get some JFETs. Seems JFETs have been forgotten about by the  industry for quite a while. Wonder why? If they are normally closed, man oh man, thank you very much. Just wonder how fast I will be able to pulse them buggers and of course being true to the saga, how many I will toast before it works. lol

Added:
Interesting thread on JFETS.
http://www.designers-guide.org/Forum/YaBB.pl?num=1162476437/4
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 20, 2010, 07:33:21 AM
Well, I got some small JFETs model NTE-132 and will use them with some small n-channel FETs I have model MPS3904.

I already tested the JFET with a dc going through the S and D then to my LEDS via 5 volts from my power supply. Then pulsed the gate at 1 hz and can see on the scope that in pulse off, the led lights up. Man oh man, we'z gonna have some more fun now.

I am looking for JFETs the size of my IRF840s but have not found any yet. lol

Also, since I will be trying this one on my bread board because this JFET is so small, I decided to start winding a test coil (photo below) more ready for this blotch wall movement. So I took a wooden ring and wound the first layer, all wound the same direction with opening at 180 degrees. One side will get the power, the other side will be switched. On this layer, I plan on winding one wind of my 1650 strand Litz wire. This will provide the most amount of copper sites to catch the blotch movement.

More soon.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on May 20, 2010, 08:02:15 AM
@all

I am sorry to say this but from what i see a blochwall can be done with a Joule thief circuit , take 5 min build one , one transistor one toroid and a 1k pot . Find the first schematic you see on google , all i see you doing is complicating stuff and use big batteries .

Just do it if you didn't already , you can build one with a secondary on top or one over a collector type coil pure tpu fashion , have fun .

 :D

In the real tpu most important thing it the vibration , something has to be moving now is it relays insulated spark gap , real movement or movement of energy .

If its real movement then is it like a motor or speaker ...

If you make a simple magnet motor 1 battery one magnet and one coil , and prevent the coil from rotating then you got a speaker , then remove the magnet and replace it by another coil Making it a 2 coil motor(no magnet ) , having a magnet in the proximity of the coils will generate movement ...

Think about it !!!

Now how come you can make a resonant circuit from a cap and a inductor , but not from two inductor you can if you wind them properly .

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on May 20, 2010, 01:10:06 PM
@all

I am sorry to say this but from what i see a blochwall can be done with a Joule thief circuit , take 5 min build one , one transistor one toroid and a 1k pot...


The JT circuit is cheap and fun to play with.  Because of this, it may be some sort of key to our
ongoing OSFE efforts.

With just a few parts we get an oscillating circuit with voltage spikes multiple times higher than the
AA or AAA batteries we use.  We can light LEDs with 'dead' batteries.

I had not posted my earlier findings, for numeroIST reasons, but here they are:

1. two air core coils may be used, and the circuit still thumps
2. the air coils can be separated from one another and turned orthoginal to one another and the JT
circuit will still thump
3. bringing the coils back together from condition 2 in one orientation will increase thump frequency
4. bringing the coils back together from condition 2 in the other orientation will kill the JT
oscillations, (this is what happens when you wire your base coil backwards)

Good stuff.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 20, 2010, 07:10:18 PM
@Guys

If you are pulsing a coil, there is no blotch wall movement and there is no north and south able to stretch from one portion of the coil to two portions since it is only one coil, it is just conventional coil pulsing. Expanding and imploding a field but always at the same position over or under or beside a pick up coil, trigger coil, feed back coil, etc, is not new.

I have followed the JT thread although I have not posted there simply because I, like many, am only one person with my own limited time and have my other orientations. The amount of informational posts on the forum is getting very daunting and so one has to make a choice on usage of time. I am sure that when the JT guys hit on something really wild, we will all hear about it and I thank them for this in advance.

If with my tests, this can show a new and more unconventional way to transfer energy, then this will also be good for JT guys so we scratch each others backs. (a little lower, more to the right, ahhhhhhhhhh - lol).

If you take a TPU as a guideline, then you have to accept the fact that there is something happening that is simple but so far from our conventional methods that this one key will make all the difference and that one key can then be configured in many TPU designs as shown by SM. This is what I am looking for and to do that, you have to think and test out of the box. Like you are doing with your weaved coils. Like @Bruce_TPU is doing with his pancakes (what - no maple syrup).

When SM leaned over his LTPU and pantomimed with his hands both pointing to the other end of the LTPU with his hands together, then each hand followed its respective side of the outer LTPU and came back together close to him, this to me spells a dual coil pulsing. But dual coil pulsing is again not blotch wall movement. The movement can only happen if the one coil changes in its fundamental structure or winding while being pulsed. This is what I am trying to figure out and do and to my present knowledge, this is a new way to look at coil pulsing. So this falls in with looking out of the box.

I think the next stage after this has to do with coil resistance and knowing that electricity, if given the choice over two paths, will take automatically a proportional split into both paths but the one with least resistance will have more. That in itself is a great feat accomplished by two simple but different coils. Because if this, eventually I think the use of a center toroid will do away with two mosfets, leaving only the need for one mosfet in usage, but I am not there yet. I have the overall theory of it but not concrete enough to put it into technical words so I will just experiment these side issues first and this way it will help me to realize more the effect. lol

SM indicated;

- Knowledge of the coils.

How much coil knowledge does one need. I tried to ask one simple question on the post #1 of this thread but it seems the answer is not so simple. Where the answer is not so simple, it is worth investigating.

Coils on loops or toroids with added pick up coils, etc., etc., have been around since day one. So what kind of knowledge of the coil is required that we do not already have. That is what I am looking for and I will know right away when I find it because I have done so many that this gives me a good basis of comparison.

- Wire is very important.

Why is wire so important? A conductor is a conductor right? Wrong. There is a relationship between wire choice and frequency response. Did SM create a new type of wire. Don't think so. But in the thousands of wire types available, there is a mix of wire usage that provides the best coupling effect possible. If you follow again conventional transformer methods, then wire is less important because high efficiency is not a main criteria although we do know that doing the same with less copper means either cheaper prices or more profit for the makers. But it is still conventional.

What is getting clearer to me is pulsing should not occur in a multi stranded wire since the center most wires will be pulsing into the other wires that are also trying to pulse and this creates energy collisions even before they leave the wire, hence wastage. With only one strand, the pulse enters and freely exits the wire without being held back by more energized and pulsed wires around it. The action is quick, direct and unhindered. But this is still normal coil pulsing and cannot produce a moving blotch wall. So what will happen if you can both pulse and have a moving blotch wall. That is what I want to find out.

If you look at what @otto is doing, there you should realize that his design is not in the SM TPU method but more in @otto's own New Method (although I am sure he will humbly disagree) and he is getting some results and he may be just a hair trigger away from realizing even more. His design is totally out of the box. His build and driving method thinking is new. There is no other way to find a good mix.

As for using big batteries, lately I am only using one polarity. My FG is pulsing into one wire 16.5 volts in micro amps (not milli amps) with not even 2 volts actual applied, so I am not using big batteries. With this energy usage, I am lighting as many LEDS as I want and at the same time including one that requires a minimum of 5 volts to even start lighting up plus it is sending enough energy outward into open space that it is modifying the image on my TV that is 6-7 feet away. Does not seem such a bad thing to do with micro amps. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 20, 2010, 09:53:59 PM
All very valid points.

The event I will call the 'eclipse'. It has been done in air, metal cores, transformers, sparkgaps. We have all jacked the potential in some way and there are not many. We have all seen this event in some other fashion in our equipment, on the bench, or on our bodies. No?

Trying to see or explain the event only takes a cursory view of how it was done in the first place. This alleviates any complexity.
For instance:
The joule thief uses the event from a ferrite core.
The Bedinin motor uses magnet field shear.
The Gk4 produces the event in an iron core.
Magnacoaster, Telsa, Gray, Dollard produce the effect in air.
Bucking coil config.
Bottom line?: Where(core) and at what angles?
How it comes out is the topology configuration.

Take a look at the reposted picture. The gate lead length is before the Fet. In all the other configs we have seen the source and drain lead length is after the fet. And there have been some layouts where the Fets and inputs /leads have been in the field and next to the outputs / leads. With these layouts we have tried all the signal protocols / combinations known to mankind, No?
But in this configuration the gate is parallel with the source and drain.
In my efforts I have been 100% correct AND so has everybody else! No hierarchy intended. Each of us seems to get lost at the output stage because the attempts can only possibly go so far. Hence the mystery, confusion, lack of follow through or just a plain old brick wall. The explanations after that do not serve justice.

Why do I mention this?
After watching and achieving the event in many ways myself and seeing this latest picture I realized I was looking at the TPU driver, with the feed back.
The long leads enable an extension of the FET ringing into space and back to the gate.
The SM17 has only three horizontal loops in parallel in space. If I had the gate line out there also I have a feedback accepting antenna. See?

So...
What if there was a dual pulse protocol applied twice or once and the comp wave returning hits the gate antenna?

Mannix had posted the same long lead drive configuration last year using tubes. Oscillator on the right, driven tube on the left connected by leads across the page.
The rest of mankind keeps the noise off the gate. I posted this 2 years ago.
This also plays into the speile of the electronics in the middle. See?
It has been pretty clear in my book. But all the combinations are fascinating.

Say what? You attached a 3 foot unshieled wire to the gate of a fet and left it hanging in space!?!?!?! What are you nuts? LOL.

--giantkiller.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 20, 2010, 10:56:51 PM
@GK

Right on. Hey, you're back. Hope everything went well.

You see in that red square area, while I was doing pulsing tests I would put other coils with leds on them and they would light up at different frequencies.

Once I get this blotch circuit and coil done and tested I will revert with results. I have never tested any coil that could shift its center blotch wall while collecting off of a top wound coil.

When I did my first tests on my regular coil builds and did not see the effect, I was so so sad to realize I misunderstood the intended effect from the start. But then I realized the pulsing circuit was not doing the job and even though this meant spending more time on the circuit, at least the theory is not in the doldrums. lol

I cannot think of any other way for the FTPU to work with such crappy winds, it has to be the blotch shifting at 5000 hertz. It works with my relays at 100 hertz so it must work at higher frequencies if properly set-up.

I will know soon enough, good or bad, no problem.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 20, 2010, 11:17:29 PM
Everything always goes well. Thanks.

The area in red is a magnetic 'free for all' zone. This loop also happens in audio, water, and crystal.
Now instead of trying to achieve a comp wave just run the gate on the opppsite side of a drain run of the same coil as a magnetic amplifier.

It has to be simple since the winds are crappy. I.E. all the multipactor models are totally visually open.
Those center toroid thingys could have a few wraps of iron wire as a core.
So keeping this thing simple which would equate to small then that points to all the deceiving additions on all the units. I now digress: SM's explanations would simply be poetic license under an NDA. We can see the dance he does.


@GK

Right on. Hey, you're back. Hope everything went well.

You see in that red square area, while I was doing pulsing tests I would put other coils with leds on them and they would light up at different frequencies.

Once I get this blotch circuit and coil done and tested I will revert with results. I have never tested any coil that could shift its center blotch wall while collecting off of a top wound coil.

When I did my first tests on my regular coil builds and did not see the effect, I was so so sad to realize I misunderstood the intended effect from the start. But then I realized the pulsing circuit was not doing the job and even though this meant spending more time on the circuit, at least the theory is not in the doldrums. lol

I cannot think of any other way for the FTPU to work with such crappy winds, it has to be the blotch shifting at 5000 hertz. It works with my relays at 100 hertz so it must work at higher frequencies if properly set-up.

I will know soon enough, good or bad, no problem.

wattsup

There are no failures. Only opportunities to learn.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on May 21, 2010, 12:55:51 AM

If you are pulsing a coil, there is no blotch wall movement and there is no north and south able to
stretch from one portion of the coil to two portions since it is only one coil, it is just conventional
coil pulsing. Expanding and imploding a field but always at the same position over or under or beside
a pick up coil, trigger coil, feed back coil, etc, is not new.


Not new to you, perhaps.  New to others, definitely.  Especially to those of us that went the BSME
route because we failed to enjoy the concept of i = SQRT(-1)!

It is a fun learning circuit for folks like us.  Until I made several of them myself, with several
different reused parts, I assumed that a ferrite toroid was necessary.  Then crowclaw posted his air
coils.  I quickly replicated it, it worked, it cost nothing, and I learned something.

Then, by moving the air coils away from one another and then arranging them orthogonal to one
another, I learned that magnetic coupling of the collector-coil and the base-coil was not
necessary... and the other points I mentioned above.

So, instead of thinking about the JT as something to do with cores or coils, I am starting to see it
also as a branching of the positive charge carrier, (wire.)

One battery, two coils, & one NPN; four components and we have a simple {and possibly
self-resonating} arrangement for further testing and abuse.

It is a good conceptual exercise.  Instead of fearing the transistor, I see it as a switch controlled
by a wire, as in the JT circuit to make useful voltage pulses from one small battery.

When I get some time, I might attach two or more independent JT circuits to my air core stacks.
I'm thinking about it.

I might even try two NPN's in series with various 'delays' between them... pulse shaping?  Old hat to
you, I suppose.

More later, got to go now.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 21, 2010, 01:59:00 AM
So keeping this thing simple which would equate to small then that points to all the deceiving additions on all the units. I now digress: SM's explanations would simply be poetic license under an NDA. We can see the dance he does.

There are no failures. Only opportunities to learn.

It is tempting I know. I had prepared a long post on that but never posted it because I want to think there is more to this then what I already know and had shown just with the toroid or the outer rings.

Here is the outer coil wrapped

@Rosphere

Just saw you post so will read it tonight after the Hockey Game.
Montreal 2 - Philly 0
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 21, 2010, 05:33:13 AM
I can say that I had 2 basic setups for all my configs. The most precise way was with Jason's SSR boards and controller with software. This allows access to the effect through precise control. The other way is mosfets clipped to a heat sink driven by 555s. Both ways produce but the loose fets way can be twisted up into the circut to cause horrendous noise and chatter. The gate leads are long.  ;) The SSR boards are finely designed to keep the noise out thereby not having the gate affected except by the control signal.

The secret is the gate being affected. This is the simple answer to all the other ways to get the coils to snap into some kind of non standard action.

In one test I injected 43khz and the coils sang at 5-12mghz. This setup used the loose fets.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on May 21, 2010, 01:18:20 PM
@wattsup

I bet you could pulse your open end circuit with a joule thief diode at the collector you will get 16 volts in micro amps you need . You adjust the freq with a pot at the base or make a tuned tank from the base coil and cap.

If the freq is not high enough us a magnet on the core .

Bloch what ever just change the winding direction at mid point in the coil ...

Any way that is how i would do it , and most likely will .

I however don't think that the middle of a magnet is equal having 2 magnet force , unless it is a special magnet like the ones in hard drives that are actually two magnets stuck together .


Big win last night , here in HABStown people are nut if they win the flyer's series its gonna go up in smoke , and we are not even at the cup .

Mark

I have learn so much for the simple jt , no 555 when you have one don't forget to count it the energy need of the device.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on May 21, 2010, 01:55:35 PM
@wattsup

I bet you could pulse your open end circuit with a joule thief diode at the collector you will get 16 volts in micro amps you need . You adjust the freq with a pot at the base or make a tuned tank from the base coil and cap.

If the freq is not high enough us a magnet on the core .

Bloch what ever just change the winding direction at mid point in the coil ...

Any way that is how i would do it , and most likely will .

I however don't think that the middle of a magnet is equal having 2 magnet force , unless it is a special magnet like the ones in hard drives that are actually two magnets stuck together .


Big win last night , here in HABStown people are nut if they win the flyer's series its gonna go up in smoke , and we are not even at the cup .

Mark

I have learn so much for the simple jt , no 555 when you have one don't forget to count it the energy need of the device.

Shifting between those embodiments from those two pictures is what I would do.A wall in the middle which once is there and then disapears...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on May 21, 2010, 09:15:07 PM
Glad to see you back GK.   Here is something possibly relevant to the TPU I just found in an ebook by an unknown author. 
"Any transformer can be converted to OU device if taken to resonant or semi-resonant Easer (Electrical Amplification by Secondary Emission of Radiation) states.  Secret is right pulse intensity and length to excite the coil or and core to high energy electron active states and proper capacitor value for this energy to slide in logarithmic curve into a capacitor as a voltage potential.  Extraction is quite simply done in its blanking period, non-reflective to source as Easer mode is attained.  Temperature goes DOWN as pulse excites the CORE to sautration states, the collapse of the field transfers thermal component (and part of the time-space tensor) to energy potential into capacitors.  Now you have the secret to ZPE.  In a sense it is a "magnet-atomic resonance".  Quite interesting to note OU is there all the time and the mechanics to extract them are not really that complicated."
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on May 21, 2010, 09:24:59 PM
I'm stunned.Not everything is clear to me, however : is it converting time to energy ? Not good then because everyone standing nearby will soon become old man. ;D
I agree that a correct pulse can do secondary emission (radiant energy) .
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 21, 2010, 10:54:58 PM
Thanks.
Another curious parameter is the 2 coils are placed at 90 degrees to each other. This has appeared in multiple places. The Cosmic Lattice document stated this as a gift to the ant hill but that it has not been utilized correctly.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5793.msg130992#msg130992
Quote
Here's how it works. Two magnetic fields together, postured in the correct way -- a way that is very three-dimensional in your thinking process -- will create a "designed magnetic field" that is very specific. It's one you have never seen, and does not exist naturally. Start with trying many magnetics fields, postured against one another -- of unequal force and pattern, and at right angles. Don't make any assumptions. Think freely. Done in the right fashion, these two fields will create a third pattern, which is unique and is the product of the original two. This third custom created pattern is the one you what to deal with, and is the one that has the potential of manipulating the lattice. Once you have created it, you will know of its special qualities by how dramatically it changes the physics around it. It won't be subtle in its exposition -- believe me. You will know when you have it.
Time is heavily portrayed also.

Glad to see you back GK.   Here is something possibly relevant to the TPU I just found in an ebook by an unknown author. 
"Any transformer can be converted to OU device if taken to resonant or semi-resonant Easer (Electrical Amplification by Secondary Emission of Radiation) states.  Secret is right pulse intensity and length to excite the coil or and core to high energy electron active states and proper capacitor value for this energy to slide in logarithmic curve into a capacitor as a voltage potential.  Extraction is quite simply done in its blanking period, non-reflective to source as Easer mode is attained.  Temperature goes DOWN as pulse excites the CORE to sautration states, the collapse of the field transfers thermal component (and part of the time-space tensor) to energy potential into capacitors.  Now you have the secret to ZPE.  In a sense it is a "magnet-atomic resonance".  Quite interesting to note OU is there all the time and the mechanics to extract them are not really that complicated."
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 22, 2010, 04:48:44 PM
Two JFETs blown.
Just getting the knack of them.

I just bought some of these off this Ebay seller - dirt cheap:
PN4416A N-Channel JFET High Freq Amplifier LOT of 100
PN4117A N-Chan JFET General Purpose Amplifier QTY 100
PN4118A N-Ch JFET General Purpose Amplifier LOT of 100
TIP32C PNP Power Transistor 100V 3A LOT of 25
DIODE MUR810 RECTIFIER 100V 8A TO220 LOT of 10

One of the links is here;
http://cgi.ebay.ca/PN4416A-N-Channel-JFET-High-Freq-Amplifier-LOT-of-100_W0QQitemZ370203831627QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5631de2d4b

Pdfs are included below.

Is it possible to use 5 to 10 of these JFETs in parallel to increase the handling capability because I would like to still use the IRF840 and the IRF9540 on the poles and use some of these in parallel in the center?

@Rosphere

One thing I (and others) have been bitching about for a long time is the diode in the mosfet. These JFETS do not have the diode. So depending on the design the flyback should now move freely back to source.

Is it possible that forgetting about JFETs is exactly what some would want. We don't use tubes anymore and soon JFETS could be a thing of the past. Why??????

Yes Yes, Mosfets are much better. Yeh, they fizz or pop more loudly when they blow. lol

Caps discharge on connection. Inductors discharge on disconnection. When used together, at the on pulse the cap discharges into the inductor, then at the off pulse the inductor discharges into the cap and that interplay produces a resonance. But when the Mosfet has that internal diode, part of that resonance is surely killed because there is no return possible to source which is an integral part of the play. I guess that's why they like Mosfets because once the energy passes it, there is no going back. Total consumption or waste is the only option.

Also, if some guys doing JT are using a diode in there, then you need to test your circuits with different diodes because each one will give you a result, some way better then others. Way way better. Incredibly better. You could be testing your device but not knowingly seeing results that are mediocre just because of the diode choice.

Anyways, back to the bench.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 22, 2010, 04:58:11 PM
Just thought about this also.

With these JFETs having no internal diode, I can test small scale Tesla Ozone Patent methods. The JFET should be able to be used to create a small short circuit to replace the rotary switch. Hmmmmmmm. Another avenue for more fun.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 23, 2010, 12:28:22 AM
...

Is it possible to use 5 to 10 of these JFETs in parallel to increase the handling capability because I would like to still use the IRF840 and the IRF9540 on the poles and use some of these in parallel in the center?
...


Hi Wattsup,

Yes it is possible. Unfortunately the jfet types you refer to are small signal types, this means a few mA (between 2-20mA) max drain-source current and 20-30V max drain-source voltage. By connecting several ones of the same type in parallel, (drains to drains, sources to sources, gates to gates) you can increase drain source current handling but not voltage of course.
These types have a rather high drain-source resistance, they are not designed directly for switching purposes. Of course you can use them as a switch in a circuit that considers this high channel resistance but in a resonant tank circuit this is not easy if possible at all. 
You can check with an Ohm meter the drain-source resistances of your jfets: choose any one of them and connect its gate to its own source directly and measure between this common connection and its drain.
What you will see on the meter it is the ON channel resistance at zero gate-source voltage and at about 2.5-3V drain-source voltage what your Ohm meter possess between its probes in that measuring range.

The Data sheet for instance for the PN4416A type says IDSS ranges from 5 to 15mA measured at 15V drain-source voltage, this current defines the ON state channel resistance: if it is (suppose) 10mA for a particular device, then rDS=15V/10mA=1.5kOhm!  not a friendly value in a high Q tank circuit...   and if you connect 20 of them in parallel, you still will have a switch with 1500/20=75 Ohm ON resistance (if all the 20 jfets had the same 1500 Ohm channel resistance which is the case only if you select them!).

For a hefty and good jfet switch you may have to resort to the type I gave earlier, probably expensive, but it has 1000V VDSS and several Amper IDSS and a channel resistance of  about  .07-.08 Ohm.  It is a normally closed switch (with zero gate-source voltage.

There is a solution to get a normally open switch from two power MOSFETs connected in series, see Figure 6 in Page 5 of this application note: http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-1017.pdf     
Because the PVI device (PhotoVoltaic Isolator) driving the common gates is rather slow in switching speed (only max. some hundred Hertz) you can use a small audio transformer or a pulse transformer to control the two MOSFETs by faster pulses. (The transformer's coil DC resistance would help discharge the gate-source nF capacitance, together with a few kOhm parallel resistor if needed.)
If you settle for  .1-1A current and 50-150V voltage, then you can get higher speed (some hundred usec) from solid state relay devices that include the series MOSFET pair and the PVI device in a single case, see here:
http://www.dionics-usa.com/product_index_2.htm  and there is a comparison chart here: http://www.dionics-usa.com/PDFs/relay_comparison.pdf  They have normally closed switch types too.

But in case you build your own series MOSFET switch with pulse transformer to drive, you can get the highest speed. And you can choose the switch parameters like ON channel resistance, max drain-source voltage and current, the speed is limited only by the pulse transformer.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on May 23, 2010, 05:00:25 AM
Or..use bottles as per the inventors advise
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 23, 2010, 06:03:56 PM
Device design topology #1
Tubes: Large polarized electron cloud.
Ferrous cores: Large polarized electron/flux reservoir.
Large copper loops: Large polarized magnetic/flux reservoir.
Eclipsing magnetic fields: Polarized magnetic/flux field manipulation.

Device design topology #2
Bipolar solid state: Minute nonpolarized electron flow.
Field effect solid state: Minute magnetic junction.

As one can see the solid state is not the environment to achieve the correct manipulation and has no volume for feedback. The design can not hope to achieve what the feedback is used for when dealing with such a small area. The configuration that works is a circuit that includes the topology for feedback of volume.

The device has characteristics of fast switching, emissions, and feedback, amplification. The amplification is inherent via the topology of the configuration. The feedback is achieved impressing upon the volume of usable electrons or flux. The fast switching is achieved by Bloch wall manipulation and no other way(The spark gap achieves this quite easily). The electron position or angular placement in space is the key factor and not at some junction or flow point where there is not enough volume for control.
Attempts at component control will only lead to extensive component research, purchasing and testing. The results happen in space and not at the component level.

This is what Spherics and Erfinder were driving at. I refer to the Atomic bomb tower setup by Spherics and the Telsa Ionizer patent and circuit description by Erfinder.

Or..use bottles as per the inventors advise
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 24, 2010, 03:59:08 AM
The Bloch wall would be moving around circumferrally at the same speed as the snake biting its tail. I believe it is moving faster than our current bench equipment can measure.
A charged iron ring is active as long as it is in a ring. Break the ring with an LED across it and you get a visual discharge. We know this. I was promoting all topologies as a mix. I was making the feedback the primary concern and stating where it lies with each of the topos. I am setting up a build right now with a gate and drain lines going through a ferrite ring. Drain line will then go to a larger horizontal loop.
The idea is to use solid state and to create a layer for feedback because SS doesn't have the cloud or flux field to communicate to.
I noticed that SMs tpus come in 2 types open and closed. The open ones don't show a horizontal run with a vertical run wrapped around it or have I fallen off the turnip truck? The closed ones have layers(maybe) but definately have an outer winding.
Wattsup has pictures of multiple tpus with the center toroid thing. I am going to put my drain and gate line magamp in that position and then in the center of a horizontal loop. This gives 2 layers of feedback of which I can alter the connection directions to play with.

Builds we all have done.
Builds we would like to try.
Builds that produce some effect.
Specifications, common and uncommon.

This is alot of information to grasp and utilize over the length of time for this involvement.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 24, 2010, 05:32:03 AM
You have an iron horseshoe and a steel keeper on its end. A wire wrapped around a place in the iron. You tap a nine volt battery to the coil and the keeper stays forever. Have you ever seen anything read the activity that is keeping the keeper bound? If you have then there is OverUnity to a 'T'.

Back to current setup:
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: slapper on May 24, 2010, 06:56:15 AM
Can't remember if GK posted this but someone on this forum did:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3dXCsyBC4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3dXCsyBC4)
Good refresher material.

Take care.

nap
Title: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on May 24, 2010, 08:56:26 AM
  To GK and all:  Greetings from Costa Rica
   Here is a picture I took of a diagram of the generator coil set up for the Magnetic Vortex Wormhole Generator  (attachment).
 I have not seen this design replicated by anyone. It seems like an interesting concept. It was taken from a patent application by John Quincy St.Clair. patent #US2003/0197093 A1  Oct. 2003.
  It shows two bucking torroid coils wound on a single wire. The smaller torroid coil is 1/3 the size of the bigger coil and wound in reverse  This is supposed to cause a vortex or magnetic wormhole, and alow energy to come into the generator from the aether. Thus imitating what naturally occurs in thunderstorms.
Reminds me a bit of the later double and triple torroid coils made by SM. They may have been wound in reverse also, like bucking gyros, to cause the most magnetic field disturbance or disequilibrium possible.
                                     NickZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 24, 2010, 04:59:07 PM
All I'm saying is; Solid state works fine as long as you understand what
it's limitations are and modify the circuit accordingly.  Like the internal
diode of a MOSFET.  Either bypass, or add an fast external reversed to
eliminate it entirely....  Where's the problem?   Here's a simple clue that
everyone knows, but NO-ONE wants to admit.  Why are the original 1
diode radio tuners always spec'd with a germanium diode?  If you can
answer that without falling into the "Lower voltage drop" excuse, then
you have it, in a nutshell.  The same circuit can work fine with a silicon
diode, but the circuit changes a little.  I actually had to play with this
for a month to truly understand the differences, and what I could ignore,
and I STILL can't explain it in normal EE ways.  To try, using the info
that I have learned around here, would make me sound like a crazy fool.

Bottles (Tubes) DO have certain advantages in this area of work, please
don't get me wrong, but if you understand why, then SS devices will
work quite well.  Give me a few more weeks and I promise I'll lay some
real data so you can verify what I am saying.  (I'm slow these days...)

@Loner

But as soon as you put a diode across the mosfet, you just changed the circuit completely because the mosfet cannot do the  real true cut off because the reverse potential will still be available from the bypass. If you pulse an inductor, on the off the reverse diode will still make the connection so the inductor cannot discharge. Hmmmmm.

Regarding the "bottle", I was wondering what @Mannix meant. Thanks for clarifying that.

@gyulasun

Thank you again for your information which is giving this major neophyte some direction. I will contact IXYS to see if I can buy from them directly some of their bigger JFETs. So the best ones should have the lowest ON resistance, which is logical since we want the pulse pass the JFET and do the work to the coils and not to the component. I would never have thought of that myself.

That PVI is really interesting. Seems to be a good analogy for tube function given the led transfers to the opto. And the way it simplifies circuit design is just tremendous. Can there be a use for this in a TPU. My only hold back is that there is still an internal diode that will kill flyback. Interesting that they are actually using a JFET to have the N/C function but have added a diode in there also. For me, a good strong JFET will be the best way for now.

Until I get more JFETs, the one I found locally and am using now is a low quality model NTE132 and I am putting the pdf below. Just from the pdf I had a hard time figuring out which was the gate.

In my previous post I said mosfets fuzz and pop better. I take that back. Twice these JFETs scared the crap out of me. Man what a pop. They just split completely open. Too high a voltage and amperage going through the D and S. The JFET I have is definitely not a match for the NPN and PNP I am using on the outer poles. Hmmmmmmmmm.

OK, one of my problems I think I am not understanding is the negative voltage required on the JFET gate. How do I get a negative voltage from my Frequency Generator? I tried connecting the negative lead to the JFET gate but it does not seem to do anything. Can't see anything on the scope either.

SM indicated that the DC output also had an AC hash. Could that AC hash have been a requirement to negative pulse a JFET? If this blotch wall eventually works, it will also produce an AC hash since the blotch wall will be moving back and forth along the same inner collector ring.

Or, is it possible that SM found a way of using the center toroid to separate an incoming DC pulse into a positive and negative pulse in order to run two types of gate requirements. As shown above by @GK, (can't believe he posted this while I was making this post last night but did not finish it until just this morning) being one step ahead of me. Ya Man.

@GK

Yes, lots of info to muddle with. Does not make it any easier. And yes, I have also been seeing pulses on my scope but even with my 60mhz capacity scope, I could be pulsing only at 50k and still not being able to see the waveform on the scope because it is to fast for my scope.

Anyways, I will go again today to my EE supply and try to find some more JFETs while I order the bigger ones. Maybe @Groundloop has managed some advancement on his end but let me tell you this blotch wall pulsing movement thingy will not be easy. You can't use a mosfet in the center because they require a polarity, but what polarity is available in a blotch wall? The only thing that really makes sense is a JFET, but they are getting rare and you will need the stronger ones otherwise you will be making JFET popcorn.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 24, 2010, 05:50:37 PM
@Nikz
I originally read that patent 3 years ago. But now after reading Lyne, Laviolette, and T.T. Brown the grasp is child's play. Thanks I needed to see it again.

@All,
The bucking now appears in 3 places, in a ferrite ring, in air or in a conductor.
The bucking field in air produces RE across space which immediately sinks to any metal in the area. The TPU copper collector is named after this. That is why 90degree coupling works.

My current magamp is wired in bucking mode meaning 2 winds in opposite wrapping directions over the ring, like mirrored. The patent items L & M are wired complimentary but driven oppositely. So this presents an opportunity to wind another one quickly for further comparisons. I can use iron wire to crank these out. The patent item J is wound complimentary or continuous with a cut half way.

Once again the abruption is caused in the circuit(like Groundloop's), the ring, or air. The ring and air represent the best places while the circuit needs special components because something in the substrate gets in the way. So in Air or ferrite gives the least resistance and puts us in the realm of effect generation according to Telsa's methods.

Another method of abruption is shown in Lee Crock's circuit (http://www.keelynet.com/mexistim/nexcrock.htm (http://www.keelynet.com/mexistim/nexcrock.htm))
and patent 4874346.

Also a ring playtoy. This is awesome!
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/TangentTwoCirclesI.shtml (http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curriculum/Geometry/TangentTwoCirclesI.shtml)

I stand on the shoulders of those greater than I and am very grateful to them.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 24, 2010, 07:09:00 PM
.....

@gyulasun

Thank you again for your information which is giving this major neophyte some direction. I will contact IXYS to see if I can buy from them directly some of their bigger JFETs. So the best ones should have the lowest ON resistance, which is logical since we want the pulse pass the JFET and do the work to the coils and not to the component. I would never have thought of that myself.

Hi wattsup,

I did not write IXYS manufactured JFETs, I wrote they make depletion mode MOSFETs (they conduct nicely with zero gate-source voltage).
Power JFETs are made, among some others, by Semisouth and I referred to this JFET type from them:
http://www.semisouth.com/products/uploads/DS_SJDP120R085_rev1.0.pdf


Quote

Until I get more JFETs, the one I found locally and am using now is a low quality model NTE132 and I am putting the pdf below. Just from the pdf I had a hard time figuring out which was the gate.

In my previous post I said mosfets fuzz and pop better. I take that back. Twice these JFETs scared the crap out of me. Man what a pop. They just split completely open. Too high a voltage and amperage going through the D and S. The JFET I have is definitely not a match for the NPN and PNP I am using on the outer poles. Hmmmmmmmmm.

I wrote to you they are small signal JFETs, designed for max 25-30mA drain current and 30-35V drain-source voltage, exceeding these limits lead to ruin them, so do not put them into a circuit where the peak current or voltage limits are exceeded.

Quote
OK, one of my problems I think I am not understanding is the negative voltage required on the JFET gate. How do I get a negative voltage from my Frequency Generator? I tried connecting the negative lead to the JFET gate but it does not seem to do anything. Can't see anything on the scope either.

The negative gate voltage for an N channel JFET is meant with respect to its source electrode. So if you think of a normal DC voltage like comes from a 9V dry battery, then the positive polarity of the battery is connected to the source of the JFET and the negative goes directly to the gate electrode: then the JFET immediatly switches off, no or very little current can flow via its drain-source path.
If you think of a pulse to control the JFET, you need a generator that gives a negative polarity pulse voltage with respect to its ground output. Seeing this on a scope, the scope probe crocodyle clip goes to the generator gnd output (BNC socket outer metal rim) and the probe pin goes to the generator 'hot' output (BNC socket middle center) and you have to see all the waveform BELOW the scope zero line on the display, in the negative direction.  IF you have an inverse output on your pulse generator, then normally it does not make a negative output from a positive one, unfortunately. Check it with a scope as I have described.
If you generator is not able to give a negative polarity output voltage, than you have to make a circuit with dual supply voltage (negative and positive) with respect to the common ground so that the output could go down to negative (below the zero voltage common ground). This is similar to certain operational amplifiers that need a pos and neg supply rail for working correctly and any voltage is referenced to the common point of the supply between the pos and neg. 

Quote
SM indicated that the DC output also had an AC hash. Could that AC hash have been a requirement to negative pulse a JFET? If this blotch wall eventually works, it will also produce an AC hash since the blotch wall will be moving back and forth along the same inner collector ring.

Or, is it possible that SM found a way of using the center toroid to separate an incoming DC pulse into a positive and negative pulse in order to run two types of gate requirements.


Because I have no idea how SM TPU works I cannot comment your above thoughts, sorry. All I did was trying to ease your switching problems you face with 'normal' MOSFETs.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 24, 2010, 08:21:52 PM
@gyulasun

Phew......... you are very right I got the companies mixed up. I will contact SemiSouth to purchase some of the following;

SJDP120R085 - Normally ON (That's the one I need in the center)
SJEP120R063 - Normally OFF (Never saw this one, will try to use it as a bidirectional NPN and PNP replacement.)
Pdf's are included below.

Also thank you for explaining how to negative pulse. It is much more clearer now but I will still have some learning curve and probably blow a few more JFETs.

Could you also please read what I will mention to @GK because I think there could be another way to pulse the coils.

@GK

What if SMs pulsing is done with a thermistor. SM kept on saying even insistingly that the devices get somewhat hot. Always hot, hot, hot. Maybe he was trying to tell us something. Remember he checks the OTPU heat with his fingers before he lifts it up. So what if he is using that heat to his advantage by finding the perfect thermistor that can cool off very very quickly in series with a properly designed coil that brings the heat up inside the thermistor. It would cut off, cool off, then connect again and re-start the cycling. No mosfet, no transistor, no pulser, nothing but a thermistor. That would equate with his statement that there was no mass circuitry in his devices. He also insisted that TPU builders use an overload cut-off in case the device went to overdrive. Could a thermistor offer such protection at the same time as offering a pulsing medium.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on May 24, 2010, 08:40:39 PM
@wattsup,
He was driving them wrong. It is not amperage at all.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg242361#msg242361
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 25, 2010, 12:08:08 AM
Hi wattsup,

Regarding thermistors I do not think they are even moderately fast devices, I cannot really imagine them for switching purposes in connection with LC circuits, rather they are mostly used for sensing heat. They have a so called thermic time constant measured in seconds and you would need a switching speed at least in the some hundred nanosecond range or even quicker I think. Thermistors reduce their resistance if the temperature they sense starts increasing, so when in series with a coil if they cool down their resistance would increase.

There are other passive devices like varistors that behave as an open circuit below a certain voltage amplitude and in case the voltage goes up suddenly beyond that amplitude then the device immediatly goes into a short circuit. (Almost like a Zener but the Zener tries to keep the voltage at the Zener voltage level, while the varistor loads down the voltage with a dead short when fires.) They are used mainly for transient voltage suppression to protect against overvoltage spikes and are made for wide voltage ranges, see this link chosen at random:
http://www.ventronicsinc.com/metal_oxide_varistors.htm  They are much much quicker than thermistors but they are not as quick as the above JFETs or 'normal' MOSFETs. If you wish to use varistors you have to think how it would serve best with its shorting property over a beyond voltage level. When the chosen voltage level does not exist any more between the two points the varistor is in parallel with, the varistor will become an open circuit again, ready to fire when voltage level gets increased again.
If you think this behavior is good for the TPU or for your purposes than consider using it, they are not expensive.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 25, 2010, 02:16:48 AM
@gyulasun

Thanks again for your information.

I looked up varistor and am putting an image below. It is rather incredible to see that these resemble a standard capacitor which can be plainly seen in the FTPU video, and, which I had pointed out on many occasions in the past as being located behind the center toroid. But now I realize they could easily have been one (or more) varistors. So this then becomes another avenue that must be tested.
Title: SMS overheat problem
Post by: sparks on May 25, 2010, 02:27:17 AM
  Tesla worked out a pyrloric generator.  The fire heated an iron core with tubes running through it.  At the ends of this core he wrapped some coils around it.  The core completed it's magnetic circuit through a horseshoe magnet.  The fire after passing over the core continued on to heat water in a boiler.  The steam from the boiler was intermittently caused to flow through the core of the generator.  This steam cooled the core and in so doing allowed the permanent magnet to cause the magnetic flux to establish in the interior of the output coils.  The changing magnetic field within the coils would cause the generator to put out upon dropping below the curie temperature of the core steel.  The steam was shut off and the thermal agitation of the core from the heat scource would destroy the magnetic flux of the core and the output coils would put out again.  Then the steam cooling more juice.  The fire heating more juice. Now say he takes the output of the generator and replaces the fire with resistive heating.  Remember only 1/2of the output is from the heating the other 1/2 is from the cooling.  So if 1/2 of the power is put into heating the core then whatever can be done to cool the core supplies the rest of the story.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on May 25, 2010, 09:23:45 AM
Varistors are fine, what sparks are describing is also fine.That's how we return back into parametric resonance oscillators  ;D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 27, 2010, 01:34:09 AM
Holy cow. I just got a response from SemiSouth for those two JFETs. I quoted the response below.

Quote
Below please find the information you requested:
10 qty of SJDP120R085 = $28.47 each with a lead time of 3-5 weeks upon receipt of your purchase order
10 qty of SJEP120R063 = $51.84 each with a LT of 8-10 weeks ARO.
Payment options:
Credit Card – if you pay via credit card, below is the  information we will need to process your order
- Type of card
- Name on card
- Account #
- Expiration date
- Code on back
- Zip code of billing address
Please note that this email quote is good for 30 days.  Let me know if you have any questions.
Unquote

Why are these JFETs so expensive. Probably because they can do things that no other components group can do. I planed on ordering 10 of each but now I will have to go back and ask for just a few of them and hope I do not blow them. 50 bucks per 63 for a normally open JFET. Hmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 27, 2010, 01:17:38 PM
Hi Wattsup,

Well, I had thought of them as expensive components.  (And if you order less than 10 qty, the price may go up even higher for a single unit.)

I think you can "make" a normally open FET from the cheaper normally ON  SJDP120R085 type by using a ground independent voltage source like a battery (either a dry or a rechargeable).  Because you can bias the gate-source with the battery voltage by connecting it across the gate-source via a series resistor, with the appropiate polarity.

I think this as good for mainly test purposes, it will behave as if it were a normally open type and you have to control its gate-source with an input voltage that takes the FET to the ON state, whenever your input pulse defeats the battery voltage bias.  Very little current is taken from the battery.  The simplest control would be via an audio or a pulse transformer but a capacitive coupling can also be considered. In fact a 1:1 to 1:2 or max 1:3 transformer would be useful, working in the frequency range you would wish to operate the JFET switch, this may involve a wideband transformer which again may be expensive, so the capacitive coupling is more attractive.
If you need to see such a schematics, I can draw it if you wish.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 27, 2010, 01:45:15 PM
@gyulasun

I will call them today to see if I can work something out with them for less quantity. Also their delivery delay is long and tells me that for them, this is a very new JFET production.

I don't know anything about SS component product launches but I could maybe presume that prices are always higher on the outset and should go down as their production increases.

But the idea of having such a non-dioded on/off switch being able to go up into the mhz range is so tantalizing that I will most certainly order some of those, maybe not 10 of each. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 28, 2010, 05:52:24 AM
Today I spoke with SemiSouth and ordered two of each. Those prices are unfortunately their retail price for quantities under 100. Above 100 u nits and price drops 40% and above 1000 units price then drop over 50%. But still it is expensive.

They told me the 63 model is their best seller but would not indicate the type of devices using it. For sure these must be expensive circuits if only one component can cost so much. Must be because they work.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 28, 2010, 03:42:07 PM
Hi wattsup,

I have just found this link and you may consider this normally OFF power JFET too: SJEP170R550    It has about 0.5 Ohm ON resistance when conducts and 1700V drain -source breakdown voltage. Here is the link I noticed it:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/163776-zhou-fangs-sales-thread-parts-you-always-wanted-but-hard-get-they-here.html  and the data sheet is here:
http://www.semisouth.com/products/uploads/DS_SJEP170R550_rev1.3.pdf

Also on that DIYAUDIO forum they mention the SJEP120R100, also normally OFF JFET, with 0.1 Ohm resistance and 1200V breakdown voltage, data sheet is here:
http://www.semisouth.com/products/uploads/DS_SJEP120R100_rev1%202.pdf

The guy uses paypal and orders above $50 are free shipping from Singapore.  Delivery time 7-8 working days.

The DIYAUDIO guys in the forum consider FET parameters from audio power amplifier output stage points of view, you wish to use them for switching. From this respect the input and output capacitances and ON channel resistance what counts, gM transconductance not so important.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 29, 2010, 01:21:54 AM
@gyulasun

Thanks for your information. SemiSouth said they will ship ASAP so I think for now I will wait till these arrive for initial testing.

Incredible that these JFETs are used in audio. Must be high end audio systems. SM was an audio guy also and he did express the fact that his audio produced pure signals, so this just may be the way to go.

I will start very carefully because the prices for these are rather extreme. I will surely need your help when the time comes to make sure I set these up correctly for testing.

I just got notice that my order for a good 200 standard JFETs has arrived at the post office. I will use these in parallel and do some testing while I wait for the SemiSouth JFETs.

My main way of pulsing is using my FG which is a HP 8111A. It goes up to 22mhz, 16.5 volts but very very low amperage which is a good thing.  A copy of the manual is available on my ftp OU site located here;
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Equipment%20Manuals/

The FG goes to the gate but I then use my power supply on the source/drain line to pulse the required power into coils, etc.

So I can't really put the positive of the FG on the source and the negative in the gate, since the positive is connected to my power supply. Man why is EE so complicated. Can't it work like regular plumbing. lol Just jokin.

Thanks again for looking out for these JFETs.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 29, 2010, 04:47:35 AM
This is neato.
http://www.firstwatt.com/j2.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 29, 2010, 02:34:26 PM
...
I will start very carefully because the prices for these are rather extreme. I will surely need your help when the time comes to make sure I set these up correctly for testing.

The most important thing to see perhaps is power dissipation in the switch (i.e. in the JFET, MOSFET etc):  if you have a coil you place in series with the drain (or source) electrode of a FET, you HAVE TO consider the possible maximum current drawn from your power supply when the FET is switched ON. 
How can you figure out the maximum current? 
First by simple Ohm's Law.  You have a coil with ,say, 1 Ohm DC wire resistance and you use ,say, 12V DC supply. When your FET is ON, and suppose it has a 0.1 Ohm ON resistance, the current will be 12V/(1+0.1)=10.9 Amper. (I neglected your power supply inner resistance which also in series with the coil and the FET and I considered it as zero.)

Now what power dissipates in this FET? Still using a static state (you do not pulse the input yet and the FET is ON continuously) the voltage drop between its drain and source electrodes is 10.9A*0.1Ohm=1.09V and the heat dissipation in the FET will be 1.092/0.1=0.118W This 118mW will heat the FET, no real need for a heat sink to the FET body in case of a TO220 or similar casing.
Of course when you use AC pulse control for the FET switch, the current flowing via the coil (and the FET) will depend on the duty cycle and the frequency so power dissipation surely decreases with respect to the above static case, I used the example to show that the FET you happen to use must be able to handle the 11 Amper in the given circuit parameters.

Now you understand that in case your FET has a 10 Ohm ON resistance instead of the 0.1 Ohm, then the maximum current will be 12/(10+1)=1.09 Amper, using the same 1 Ohm coil and the 12V supply voltage. But the FET dissipation INCREASES because the voltage drop across the drain-source will be 1.09A*10Ohm=10.9V so the dissipation in the FET will be 10.92/10=11.88W  now this is a serious heat that would quickly make the FET tost soon, a decent heat sink is strongly needed. BUT the best to avoid using a FET switch with 10 Ohm ON resistance in this example circuit I used with the 1 Ohm coil.

And now, after the current handling consideration, there comes the drain-source maximum voltage consideration for the FET. Because the coil is in series with the switch, the switch-off instant imposes the voltage spike across the switch so you have to use at least a 300-400V FET or even higher, not ruin it at the first switch-ON.
The induced voltage when the current is switched off in a coil depends on how suddenly you switched it OFF, how much current was flowing in the coil and what self inductance the coil has. Vi=L*dI/dt  where Vi is the induced voltage, L is the coil inductance in Henry, I is the current change and t is the time under which the switch-off happens. 
If you have L=100uH I=1A t=1us then Vi=0.0001*(1/0.000001)=100V spike.  If you have a faster switch with ,say, 100ns OFF time, the spike willl be 1000V!  AND YOU WILL HAVE a fast switch because your HP generator and either a MOSFET or the JFET is able to switch ON or OFF around 100ns or even quicker.

Now it is obvious you may wish to start any such switching test with the smallest power supply voltage possible, say, starting with maybe 2-3V DC instead of the 12V or whatever, to keep the current first at a low value, thus everything within safe parameters.

Quote
I just got notice that my order for a good 200 standard JFETs has arrived at the post office. I will use these in parallel and do some testing while I wait for the SemiSouth JFETs.

Now you may have some info how to NOT toast them.  When a lot of them is in parallel, maybe it is then not the current that ruins them but their 25-30V drain-source maximum voltage... 
Though you have to consider current too because if 10 of them in parallel have ,say, the 10 Ohm ON resistance and you use them in the above example with the 1 Ohm coil, then the 1 Amper current from the 12V supply will drive 100mA through in each, (10 times 100mA=1A) and these small signal jfets cannot handle 100mA but maybe 30-40mA maximum each, depends on their type of course.

Quote
...
My main way of pulsing is using my FG which is a HP 8111A. It goes up to 22mhz, 16.5 volts but very very low amperage which is a good thing.  A copy of the manual is available on my ftp OU site located here;
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Equipment%20Manuals/

The FG goes to the gate but I then use my power supply on the source/drain line to pulse the required power into coils, etc.

So I can't really put the positive of the FG on the source and the negative in the gate, since the positive is connected to my power supply. Man why is EE so complicated. Can't it work like regular plumbing. lol Just jokin.
...

You have a very useful function generator indeed. It can give out negative or positive or symmetrical polarity waveforms which are very useful. For your N channel JFETs the negative polarity is the one needed because all the waveform is UNDER the zero voltage line.
In case of the FG the output voltage is defined with respect to the BNC socket 'outer metal ring', let's name its metal cylinder as the zero voltage point. And the BNC socket's middle point in the center of the cylinder metal body gives out the polarity (and amplitude) with respect to the zero point.
I mention these so that you can think of them correctly when you mention polarity in case of a power supply. What you sound to call positive at the FG, it is the FG's BNC output metal cylinder, the zero voltage or ground level point, ok?  And you can connect it to the source electrode of the JFET (or MOSFET), no problem if your power supply's negative polarity is also connected to it.  And the FG's center pin of its BNC output can go directly to the gate electrode of the JFET (or MOSFET) because the polarity of this pin can be chosen from the FG's front panel button, Output Mode Selection shown in Page 41 in the PDF file  ( http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Equipment%20Manuals/hp-8111a/08111-90002.pdf ).  (The Complement mode simply means the 'phase' of the output pulse is changed: where there was zero voltage, it changed to max amplitude and vice versa.)

And your power supply's positive output can go to the drain electrode of the FET or MOSFET (via a coil), its polarity has nothing to do with the FG's output polarity, you know that.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 29, 2010, 08:39:09 PM
@gyulasun

Thanks again for your teaching. I will keep these posts handy for continuous referencing. I never used those sym buttons before.

Today I replaced my el cheapo JFET and used three PN4416A in parallel, with a NPN on the positive and on the negative sides of the coil circuit. I put the negative of my FG to the base of the JFET and the positive of my FG to the base of the 2 NPNs. Passed my power supply through the circuit and bingo, when I put my two scope probes on the source and drain of the JFET, I can now see them pulsing in opposite directions so this tells me the pulsing is now working.

So I tried pulsing my new toroid coil with the moving inner blotch wall and sent the outer coils to my dioded capacitor tank and this is not giving me what I was expecting but it is showing me something else. This type of coil will require a very new outer winding method that I will do today and report back soon. The one coil outer winding is not working. But the pulsing is working and the 3 JFETs are holding their own very well. Hallelujah, so I can still play with this on other coil builds while I wait for the bigger JFETs.

But from what I have seen, any moving blotch wall will require many outer coils of less winds so the travel can be more complete over each outer coil. I will show this effect soon.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 29, 2010, 09:32:57 PM
Wattsup,  did you mean this schematic here from Groundloop?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8185.msg240769#msg240769

and you use two NPN bipolar transistors instead of the two MOSFETs? If so, then some modification may be needed in the schematic perhaps?

Just for me to understand your description better, with the least puzzle, ok?
I am not fully in your picture I am afraid...

Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on May 31, 2010, 04:26:18 PM
@gyulasun

Yes the basic circuit is the one you showed but with some changes. But this is not important for me right now since I want to explore more the effect it is giving, or not giving, even with more changes.

Also, I want to take some time and test the Tesla Ozone Patent by using 4 or more of these PN44116A's JFETs in parallel. This means I have to make a short circuit via a high impedance coil going to the negative but just do it with a very small voltage to start and I will report the results. Lucky I have 100 of these JFETs. lol

The most important thing for me is I now have a JFET that can open and close very fast and that does not have an internal diode.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on May 31, 2010, 07:52:15 PM
...
Also, I want to take some time and test the Tesla Ozone Patent by using 4 or more of these PN44116A's JFETs in parallel. This means I have to make a short circuit via a high impedance coil going to the negative but just do it with a very small voltage to start and I will report the results. Lucky I have 100 of these JFETs. lol

The most important thing for me is I now have a JFET that can open and close very fast and that does not have an internal diode.

Thanks, ok.
However, you cannot make that short circuit with PN4416A jfets because they have typical ON resistance (at zero gate-source voltage) of about 1-2kOhm each. And if you parallel ,say, 5 of them, you would still have between 200-400 Ohm ON resistance between the drain-source electrodes, far from a short. I repeat this just for to be aware of. 
And as soon as the voltage difference between the drain-source exceeds about 35V (DC or peak to peak AC), the 5 jfets will probably be ruined.
So just be careful.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on May 31, 2010, 08:23:09 PM
Something is weird with LC circuits. If I have properly constructed mechanical pendulum in action it can run many minutes,but LC circuit without power stops immediately. Looks like power source and mosfets are the case why this happens. I need to think how to use fets only to overcome resistance of circuit and use power source only to make initial push to the circuit.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 01, 2010, 12:52:16 AM
Something is weird with LC circuits. If I have properly constructed mechanical pendulum in action it can run many minutes,but LC circuit without power stops immediately. Looks like power source and mosfets are the case why this happens. I need to think how to use fets only to overcome resistance of circuit and use power source only to make initial push to the circuit.

Yes,  Power source can "ruin" the resonant Q of an LC circuit because a decent power source (usually a battery or a mains power supply) has a very very low output impedance. MOSFETs (or bipolar transistors or jfets etc) used as a pure switch also can only add loss to  LC circuits.
Here is a Java applet for resonant LC circuits where you can adjust L, C and the series equivalent loss resistance of the parallel LC tank circuit:
http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/osccirc.htm 

If you use the 500uF, 5H values and zero series resistor value (a loss-less LC circuit) you get undamped oscillations. If you introduce any small higher than zero loss resistor, then you get damped oscillations which eventually reduce to zero (input energy dissipates in the loss resistor such as like wire resistance, core loss if any and capacitor dielectric loss).

So if you use different value loss resistors, you can compare the 'ringing' time for the different loss values, and maybe compare them to the mechanical pendulum's running time.

If you want to use a MOSFET (or any other active device) to overcome the loss of the LC circuit, then you have to build it into a circuit which makes the active device to 'simulate'  ,say, a 'negative' resistor. 
This can be achieved by building an oscillator around the LC circuit from the active device or bias it like for instance Naudin shows here:
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cnr/negosc.htm 
However, to do so involves using an energy source to maintain the oscillations, unfortunately. So this way of making and maintaining oscillations in LC circuits does not seem to be OU, unfortunately.
(The best oscillator shown in this Forum consumed 3-4uA current from a 3V battery at 5-10kHz frequency and used a MOSFET, it was built recently by Luc (gotoluc).
(I think there are possibilities in parametric circuits.)

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 07, 2010, 01:04:53 AM
Something else really weird happened during this weekend of testing. Since I am only blowing those PN4416s (12 blown so far but I will stop), I decided to do some other tests with my toroid that has the dual primary over my dual secondaries.

I tried this both in standard bucking or in @gotolucs mode the effect happens the same. I wanted to see what would happen if I cut the power to the toroid from both ends at the same time. So..........

I put the positive of my power supply to the drain of an IRF9540 PNP mosfet and sent the source to one side of the primary. The other end of the primary went to the source of an IRF840 NPN mosfet and the drain went to the power supply ground. Both gates were in parallel and connected to only the positive of my pulse generator. The secondary which was also either in bucking or @gotolucs mode were connected to my capacitor tank via a 1N5817 high speed diode. I put my LED bank on the cap and my volt meter.

I put the power supply at 5 volts and set the pulse generator to 16.5 volts. When I got to a resonance of around 3mhz, the LED lit up supper brightly, the amps on the power supply read like .01 to 0. The FG amps was again micro amps. But the DC voltage meter on the cap tank read 0 volts. WTF is going on here. I was totally puzzled as to why it read 0 volts since this is the first time that has happened. Then I put the capacitor volt meter on AC and it read 9 volts.

So the toroid primary pulsed from both ends is producing strictly AC. Enough so that I changed the LED for a small 130 volt 11 watts rated bulb and the filament lit up semi-bright, something I could never do before. I wonder if this is enough to light up a vacuum tube cathode. I think so.........

I was always wondering what SM said about the AC in his devices. Where the hell could an AC come from in a DC pulsed device. Now I see it could come from the center toroid in bucking mode when pulsed from both ends. I cannot explain technically why it is doing that but it does. I tried at lower frequencies and to my amazement it still worked from 2khz to 10khz as if it had a large bandwidth there that kept the effect going.

I will have to document this more precisely during the week.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on June 07, 2010, 07:13:08 PM
wattsup, sounds like some interesting results.  It's somewhat hard to tell what's going on voltage wise even with the AC setting if the frequency is too high for the DVM and most of them don't go that high.  Did you look at this with your scope?  It looks though like you have an effect to dig deeper into.  Good work!  I'll have to leave it to some of the smarter ones here though for a possible explanation.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 07, 2010, 08:14:37 PM
well, isn't pure LC resonant wave an AC wave ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 07, 2010, 09:54:02 PM
...
I put the positive of my power supply to the drain of an IRF9540 PNP mosfet and sent the source to one side of the primary. The other end of the primary went to the source of an IRF840 NPN mosfet and the drain went to the power supply ground. Both gates were in parallel and connected to only the positive of my pulse generator. The secondary which was also either in bucking or @gotolucs mode were connected to my capacitor tank via a 1N5817 high speed diode. I put my LED bank on the cap and my volt meter.

I put the power supply at 5 volts and set the pulse generator to 16.5 volts. When I got to a resonance of around 3mhz, the LED lit up supper brightly, the amps on the power supply read like .01 to 0. The FG amps was again micro amps. But the DC voltage meter on the cap tank read 0 volts. WTF is going on here. I was totally puzzled as to why it read 0 volts since this is the first time that has happened. Then I put the capacitor volt meter on AC and it read 9 volts.

So the toroid primary pulsed from both ends is producing strictly AC. Enough so that I changed the LED for a small 130 volt 11 watts rated bulb and the filament lit up semi-bright, something I could never do before. I wonder if this is enough to light up a vacuum tube cathode. I think so.........

I was always wondering what SM said about the AC in his devices. Where the hell could an AC come from in a DC pulsed device. Now I see it could come from the center toroid in bucking mode when pulsed from both ends. I cannot explain technically why it is doing that but it does. I tried at lower frequencies and to my amazement it still worked from 2khz to 10khz as if it had a large bandwidth there that kept the effect going.

I will have to document this more precisely during the week.

Hi wattsup,

If I understand correctly your circuit description, I would suggest to replace the p channel MOSFET drain with its source electrode ( its source electrode ought to connect to supply positive) and also replace the n channel MOSFET drain with its source electrode (its source electrode ought to connect to the supply negative), ok?  And repeat the test.  Maybe you will find the same behavior as before but then the FETs would receive correct DC polarities.  Please double check your setup with respect to your above circuit description, I can reflect on only what you describe.
(A p channel MOSFET must get negative supply voltage at its drain electrode with respect to its source, an n channel must get positive voltage  at its drain with respect to its source.) 

If you achieved resonance in the secondary then you must have some form of AC voltages in that LC circuit developed, don't you? (At resonance, an LC circuit always tries oscillate in sinusoidal form, even when excited with pulses;   forest also refers to it.)

Did you connect the pulse gen negative to the supply negative too?

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 08, 2010, 08:16:33 PM
@wattsup,
This is schematic of a test you just did.
Muy Importante!

The gates can be fired together or by 2 different pulse sources.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 08, 2010, 11:48:45 PM
Yes, I also thought of this schematic, after his text description.

I tried to correct as I think these P or N channel MOSFETs prefer getting DC polarities across their drain and source electrodes. Maybe they work in this particular setup with their drain-source electrodes mixed up, I never used them in reverse.  But if wattsup indeed mixed the electrodes up then the FETs body diodes were immediately get forward biased, when he switches on the 5V supply and those diodes effectively would short the drain source electrodes, regardless of the gate control voltage, so I am puzzled how they could have been controlled from the FG.  This is why I wrote, I can reflect on what I read as a circuit description.

Respectfully,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 09, 2010, 01:18:24 AM
@GK and @gyulasun

I had described my connections correctly and thank you for your explanation which I followed also to realize the way I connected the PNP was in reverse so actually, when I removed the pulse to the PNP gate, it did not change anything, yes because of the internal diode. So now I connected them as you have recommended. Also, before I was sending the FG positive to both gates, now I am sending the FG positive to the NPN gate and the FG negative to the PNP gate. The life of an EE neophyte is not easy.

So now I go from the power supply positive, to the PNP source, PNP drain to the primary, other end of primary to the NPN drain and NPN source to power supply negative.

Amazingly the best results with this set-up is almost smack dab at the 5000hz. I totally freaked when I saw this.

Off the secondary, I figured out something very weird. My capacitor is a non-polarized motor starter type. So on one terminal I put one end of the secondary, on the other cap terminal I put three diodes with their other ends open so my other secondary wire can go to any one of them to see the differences in what the volt meter reads. The volt meter is right on the cap terminals.

Now when I put the secondary through a 1N5817 diode, I am getting AC up to 9 volts and on DC it reads around .08 with my LED bank lit up. When I remove the LED the voltage rises to around 15 volts AC.

When I put the secondary through a 1N4984 diode, I am getting DC about 8 volts and on the AC it read around .6 volts with my LED lit up. When I remove the LED the voltage rises to around 14 volts DC.

I will have to make a video on this, but I want to test a few more things.

What if I go PNP to an outer ring to primary toroid to another outer ring then to NPN. Those outer rings would be on the input and output of the primary toroid being pulsed at the same time and if there is any AC happening, this would produce ring fields in two directions. I would like to see how another coil over the rings would react to this. I will try this tonight. More to come.

Added:

Oh yeh, last night I connected the secondary output to the cathode of a 6X8 vacuum tube and it lit up. This tube however has the wrong specs that I need so I will look for another one in my box of tubes and try it out, then measure voltage off the plate.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 09, 2010, 03:21:54 PM
....
I had described my connections correctly and thank you for your explanation which I followed also to realize the way I connected the PNP was in reverse so actually, when I removed the pulse to the PNP gate, it did not change anything, yes because of the internal diode. So now I connected them as you have recommended. Also, before I was sending the FG positive to both gates, now I am sending the FG positive to the NPN gate and the FG negative to the PNP gate. The life of an EE neophyte is not easy.
So now I go from the power supply positive, to the PNP source, PNP drain to the primary, other end of primary to the NPN drain and NPN source to power supply negative.
...

Ok wattsup, now what I do not get is why you connect the FG negative to the gate electrode of the N channel MOSFET?
Do you find significant difference between:
connecting the FG negative to the power supply negative and the two gates of the MOSFETs are connected together   OR
as you wrote the FG negative goes to the gate of the N channel MOSFET?

I think the preferred method would be the FG negative i.e. the zero ground point of the FG would be tied to the negative pole of the power supply.

One would think there is a difference in the switch on and mainly the switch off times of the p and n channel MOSFETs... that could play any  role in the switching actions?  It is sure there is a difference in their reaction time.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 10, 2010, 02:15:34 PM
Hi @gyulasun;

Well what I indicated is the positive of the FG is going to the gate of the NPN or N-Channel mosfet and the negative of the FG is going to the PNP gate or the P-Channel mosfet. I think you may have understood that in reverse.

The reason I am (was) doing this is mainly due to how I understand the specs on these two mosfets (IRF840 and IRF9540). The PNP IRF9540 specs, when I look at the Gate to Threshold Voltage says minimum -2 to maximum -4 volts. So I thought the gate of the PNP needs only a negative voltage source. On the NPN IRF840 the same spec says +2 minimum to +4 maximum. So this is why I connected the FG in that way.

But to tell you the real fact is that I do not really understand the specs but just the rudimentary overall usage, which can be wrong in any or every case. But this has never stopped me from doing tests and observing effects.

One of the problems I have is when you say to put the negative of the FG with the negative of the power supply. I had been pulsing mosfets with only the positive of the FG and it has worked in the past so this is why I never used it. OK I will do as you say.

OK, I did as you say. I made some other minor changes too and the AC and DC effect is no longer there. Only DC output. But I found some great results.

I made a video of the current set-up as shown by @GK diagram, simply because I am getting very good voltage output that I have never seen before. The video is located here.

The video is located here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfhbeNFJM5s

If there is one thing I would like to tell other TPU researchers that have circuits with one or more diodes, YOU HAVE TO TRY THE CIRCUIT WITH SEVERAL DIODE TYPES. In my last tests, if I only used the same diode all the time, I would never see these results. You could think the circuit you made is not working as you want, but just changing the diode can make all the difference.

I will reproduce the AC/DC effect again using different diodes and make another video during the week.

In this video when I increase the applied power supply voltage, the output voltage was increasing proportionally meaning that this is perfect for a device that would have to run with gain.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 11, 2010, 12:25:40 AM
Hi @gyulasun;

Well what I indicated is the positive of the FG is going to the gate of the NPN or N-Channel mosfet and the negative of the FG is going to the PNP gate or the P-Channel mosfet. I think you may have understood that in reverse.

hi Wattsup,

Yes, I mistyped it, sorry for that.


Quote
The reason I am (was) doing this is mainly due to how I understand the specs on these two mosfets (IRF840 and IRF9540). The PNP IRF9540 specs, when I look at the Gate to Threshold Voltage says minimum -2 to maximum -4 volts. So I thought the gate of the PNP needs only a negative voltage source. On the NPN IRF840 the same spec says +2 minimum to +4 maximum. So this is why I connected the FG in that way. 

I see. Normally when you use a voltage source (battery, mains, generator) then you always consider two poles (when it is DC) or two points (when it is AC) between which you understand the amplitude info of the voltage source like a 9V battery or 120V mains voltage etc.  You always measure voltage between two points, not one point in itself, right? 
This is so with the gate voltage in case of MOSFETs, they do not state in every point of the data sheet that it is meant between the gate AND the source electrodes or with respect to the source electrode of the MOSFET BUT they mean it! Gate threshold voltage is always meant with respect to the source electrode of a FET. And in the data sheet there are Figures showing recommended measurements setups how they mean a specific data.

Quote
One of the problems I have is when you say to put the negative of the FG with the negative of the power supply. I had been pulsing mosfets with only the positive of the FG and it has worked in the past so this is why I never used it. OK I will do as you say. 

Thanks. It can work with only the positive of the FG but two things are involved with it: it may work erraticly and you will not have any idea of something happened due to the circuit properties or due to an erratic MOSFET switch on or off (for instance the gate-source self capacitance has no possibility to discharge correctly because the gate is floating with respect to the source electrode), the other thing is you may also input spurious frequencies you are also not aware of, (the gate electrode has a MegaOhm input impedance at low frequencies like 50 or 60Hz mains and you always have field strength from the mains in a room or lab etc that can modulate the input frequency coming from the FG.
It is true an FG has a low output impedance (pure 50 Ohm) but if you use a ground independent circuit with a battery as the voltage source (not a power supply fed from the mains like the FG) then chances are the gate is still unterminated (it cannot 'see' fully the FG's output) so it can remain at high impedance, hence can pick up 'waves' as 'foreign' voltages and you may not be aware of it.

If you used only the positive output of the FG so far for driving mainly N channel MOSFETs and you found your MOSFET was switching as you expected then probably you used power supply as the DC voltage source to feed the drain-source electrodes, hence chances were the negative supply point was enough 'low impedance' point via the mains network from the FG's negative output or vice versa so the gate-source path had good chance for normal operation. Not so in case of operating from a battery, then the path for the low impedance route is missing via the mains network, unless some other measuring instrument's (scope etc) negative point brings it to the source electrode of the MOSFET or JFET.

If you study any schematic that includes a MOSFET or JFET you find that the gate-source electrodes always have a DC path between them: either a resistor or a coil or a transformer's coil, these DC conducting components insure the gate-source capacitance can discharge (the RC time constant is important of course).  If the DC path is missing (and it can be missing if you use only the FG's positive output), then the control of the gate may become erratic.  See for instance Groundloop's schematic for the two coil switch shown earlier, the 2 kOhm resistors are between the gate-source electrodes. (In case of using an NE555 timer for controlling a MOSFET directly, the DC path between the gate-source is insured by the 555's inner circuits but then you have to connect the 555 negative supply point with the N channel MOSFET's source electrode too, right?

Quote
OK, I did as you say. I made some other minor changes too and the AC and DC effect is no longer there. Only DC output. But I found some great results.

Thanks for showing the video, nice job.  I cannot judge if "the AC and DC effect is no longer there"  result is good or bad but it is ok you found some great results.  One thing is sure: if you apply correct methods for serving the MOSFETs (or any other device) then the MOSFETs will operate as they are destined to and you can depend on their performance and focus on the effect of the now correct switching.

RE on your finding the different diodes behaviour:  the so called reverse recovery time is the important data here for them, trr, and there are big differences between the types of course.  So called fast or extra/super fast recovery diodes are preferred for capturing voltage spikes from the collapsing magnetic fields, trr should be in the 20-30 nanosecond range or even better.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on June 11, 2010, 08:41:31 AM
Hello all,

what a mess here!

GK is trying his best with tinned wires and wattsup is trying his best with a PNP/NPN MOSFET combination.

Now, if you would stick your nice brains together you would have great results.

Oh, almost forgot to say that the "wattsup combination" is to be made with little MOSFETs as driver MOSFETs for the biiiiig output MOSFETs.

Nice weekend, see you on Monday with hopefully new results.

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 11, 2010, 05:55:31 PM
@Otto,
Ha Ha.

@wattsup you take the right side I'll be on the left and maybe one thought will emerge. Ha, Ha.

@all,
I have AOP605s on the way. These will drive my irf840s in a push pull type operation from a 555.  ;D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 11, 2010, 05:56:28 PM
@All

I put up a new short video located here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUH4uIbvRBo

@gyulasun

Thanks a heep for coaching me through this. I see now the error in my ways. I won't promise not to make more errors even intentionally (just to see the effects - lol). One of my breadboards looks like a cratered moon surface so I am used to it.

I thank you for your kind patience.

@otto

I answered you in @GK's thread.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 11, 2010, 07:30:48 PM
Remove your watch and rings in further tests. These items make you a better antenna, an electric fence, lightning rod.

@All

I put up a new short video located here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUH4uIbvRBo

@gyulasun

Thanks a heep for coaching me through this. I see now the error in my ways. I won't promise not to make more errors even intentionally (just to see the effects - lol). One of my breadboards looks like a cratered moon surface so I am used to it.

I thank you for your kind patience.

@otto

I answered you in @GK's thread.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 11, 2010, 08:28:48 PM
otto,

How it is possible that a coil properly managed release kind of electrostatic-like field instead of EM wave ? Is this a beta radiation ? have you ever measured using geiger meter ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on June 11, 2010, 09:56:24 PM
@All

I put up a new short video located here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUH4uIbvRBo

@gyulasun

Thanks a heep for coaching me through this. I see now the error in my ways. I won't promise not to make more errors even intentionally (just to see the effects - lol). One of my breadboards looks like a cratered moon surface so I am used to it.

I thank you for your kind patience.

@otto

I answered you in @GK's thread.

You've probably already seen this but it sounds like what GK just mentioned in other thread may explain why your voltage went up in your last video when you disconnected the ground lead on the FG.  It does sound like results will be much better if everything is isolated from any grounds which all normal equipment will have if plugged in the wall. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 11, 2010, 10:14:20 PM
@All

I put up a new short video located here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUH4uIbvRBo

@gyulasun

Thanks a heep for coaching me through this. I see now the error in my ways. I won't promise not to make more errors even intentionally (just to see the effects - lol). One of my breadboards looks like a cratered moon surface so I am used to it.

I thank you for your kind patience.

@otto

I answered you in @GK's thread.

Hi Wattsup,

I have just watched your 2nd part video and you demonstrated how bad a piece of advice I gave to you when I was suggesting to connect the FG's negative output to the negative pole of the power supply: I deprived you from several tens of Volts....  but fortunately you realised this by disconnecting the negatives and regained the lost voltage.   :) ;D :)

I cannot give a strait explanation for this "loss"  maybe the lack of the connection somehow modifies the falling edge of the pulse and makes it falling quicker, a qiucker switch-off can explain the increasing regained voltage from the collapsing field. (The quicker you switch the current off, the higher the pulse amplitude becomes.)  Now, why the switch-off improves? good question...

One thing is sure: in pulse technique the shorter cables, wires are used the better and dependable the results are.  I mean the too long wires leading to and from the gate current meter to the gates, this is one thing. Another thing is I cannot figure out what discharges the gate-source capacitances when the gates have no direct closed DC path via the the FG's 50 Ohm output when you disconnect the negatives.
You are very lucky having that HP FG, it has a very sharp rising and falling edges and high output amplitude, this is a big blessing for you because if you were to use the bipolar type NE555 timer IC for generating the pulses, you would be settled with some hundred nanosecond rising and falling times (NB: the CMOS LMC555 or TLC555 has a much better rising and falling times at their output than the bipolar version has).  Then you would be forced to use high speed MOSFET drivers Otto referred to between the 555 output and the power MOSFET switch gate (negative point of the 555 and the n channel MOSFET source electrode are to be connected  ;) ).

So all I wish keep up your excellent and steady work and practice makes perfect.

Hopefully Otto will not find this a mess... ("What a mess" he wrote after my previous long ramblings  :D )

rgds,  Gyula

EDIT Just read GK's thoughts on using totally ground independent setups, I agree this can explain your voltage rise too (maybe the scope you used between the drain-source electrodes insured a better negative connection and using a second negative connection already created a ground-loop with the existing one).
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 11, 2010, 10:19:41 PM
I have taken Otto's responses like that means 'just the facts, minimize, focus with just the pertainent, reject the noise'.

I have seen this in myself and most others here and that is if you have 5 things to focus on the focus usually goes to the apparent and not the hidden or obscure. And down the rabbit hole we go. This is one of Grumpy's pet peaves. How quickly we get lost...

Even though wading through the boastings and postings takes time it still feeds the knowledge.

@wattsup,
I have built a 3 freq 555 based timer box with a potentiometer for timing and width. Then put the timing capacitor connections outside the project box for 3 Elenco capacitor selection boxes hookup.
I'll take a pic and posted tonight.
I also have a box based on 3 xr2206's for square, triangle and sine waves. Both of these drive fet gates.
Also using a fet to drive a fet would enable the second fet to slam change really sharp because ofd the hard on and off transistion.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 11, 2010, 10:26:05 PM
Thanks GK,  I did not really mean it...   :)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 11, 2010, 11:08:00 PM
You lost me on this one. No problem though.

Thanks GK,  I did not really mean it...   :)

All have given input over time to get us at this point to nail this down. Now we have minimal amount of patterns, facts, patents, people and threads. And that equates to speed.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 11, 2010, 11:44:05 PM
You lost me on this one. No problem though.

All have given input over time to get us at this point to nail this down. Now we have minimal amount of patterns, facts, patents, people and threads. And that equates to speed.

Earlier I mentioned Otto notice on the mess and you gave explanation what he meant and I responded I did not really take it on me. That is all...

Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 14, 2010, 04:04:30 AM
Something is screwy in Camelot.

I can't redo what I showed in the last video.

I made a small change in how the mosfets are held but no changes to the circuit diagram. Everything is the same, everything, and now no more effect at 800 volts. Shit. I'm getting the 340 volts I had in the first video.

I have been trying to redo it all weekend. I looked back at the video so many times but just can't figure it out.

Why did I do the change? Because I noticed on the terminal block that I used to hold the mosfets together required that I bend the mosfet terminals so much but even then the gate of the npn was not solidly held by the terminal block screw because the copper lead (with the red tape) was there also. So that mosfet gate terminal was a little loose during the demo even though it worked. Seeing this looseness, I decided to fix it and now the effect is gone. Vanished. WTF, is it possible that with the mosfet gate terminal loose this caused at 300 volts level enough miniature sparking that it jumped up to 800 volts.

The answer to the following question would help me realize what went wrong.

So, during the changeover, I also changed the mosfets, same models, but new mosfets. So I am wondering about mosfets. During their useful life, can they gradually change or degrade in their output specs, or, do they work like they work until they just blow.

Anyways, like I said, something is screwy in Camelot.

wattsup
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: darkspeed on June 14, 2010, 04:31:42 AM


sounds like you may have changed the capacitance on the gate - thus changed the switching time
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: darkspeed on June 14, 2010, 04:32:51 AM
.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on June 14, 2010, 04:45:23 AM
Ackkkk!  Hate it when stuff like that happens.  If you have more Mosfets it sounds like it would be worth changing them out maybe one at a time to see if one of them is bad.  Other than that it sounds like maybe you had hold of PFM for a minute, turned your back and lost it   ;D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 14, 2010, 08:19:02 AM
  Guys: 
   I was just watching IST's last videos and I do belive that he may have hit on something.
  That is:   That it is Not the Coil Design of a TPU that is of main importance, as almost any wire coil can be shown to work, although coil-tuning useing different coil types does improve the effect.  BUT, that the SECRET lies in the way the coil is wired so that the Output is being FED-BACK into the Input, and thus making the device run with gain. 
   He has shown the effect by first using a 12 volt battery,
to charge a big capacitor, and pulse a coil,   then with no car battery, just a big charge holding capacitor, previously charged, to a pulse coil, that will start and maintain itself running, and finally shows how with even no capacitor the coil (by itself) will self run once started, and charge a battery at the same time. 
  Is this too good to be true?   His proof of concept videos are out and can be seen by all.
                                      NZ
 
                                                                 
                                                                       
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 14, 2010, 09:15:38 AM
  Guys: 
   I was just watching IST's last videos and I do belive that he may have hit on something.
  That is:   That it is Not the Coil Design of a TPU that is of main importance, as almost any wire coil can be shown to work, although coil-tuning useing different coil types does improve the effect.  BUT, that the SECRET lies in the way the coil is wired so that the Output is being FED-BACK into the Input, and thus making the device run with gain. 
   He has shown the effect by first using a 12 volt battery,
to charge a big capacitor, and pulse a coil,   then with no car battery, just a big charge holding capacitor, previously charged, to a pulse coil, that will start and maintain itself running, and finally shows how with even no capacitor the coil (by itself) will self run once started, and charge a battery at the same time. 
  Is this too good to be true?   His proof of concept videos are out and can be seen by all.
                                      NZ
 
                                                                 
                                                                     

Can you post link to that video ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 14, 2010, 12:49:45 PM
Something is screwy in Camelot.

I can't redo what I showed in the last video.

I made a small change in how the mosfets are held but no changes to the circuit diagram. Everything is the same, everything, and now no more effect at 800 volts. Shit. I'm getting the 340 volts I had in the first video.

I have been trying to redo it all weekend. I looked back at the video so many times but just can't figure it out.

Why did I do the change? Because I noticed on the terminal block that I used to hold the mosfets together required that I bend the mosfet terminals so much but even then the gate of the npn was not solidly held by the terminal block screw because the copper lead (with the red tape) was there also. So that mosfet gate terminal was a little loose during the demo even though it worked. Seeing this looseness, I decided to fix it and now the effect is gone. Vanished. WTF, is it possible that with the mosfet gate terminal loose this caused at 300 volts level enough miniature sparking that it jumped up to 800 volts.

The answer to the following question would help me realize what went wrong.

So, during the changeover, I also changed the mosfets, same models, but new mosfets. So I am wondering about mosfets. During their useful life, can they gradually change or degrade in their output specs, or, do they work like they work until they just blow.

Anyways, like I said, something is screwy in Camelot.

wattsup

Hi Wattsup,

My guess is also the loose gate connection earlier gave the high voltage as a present for you becaue it may have introduced extra speed switching time you would not normally get with even such excellent FG pulse rise and fall times your HP has.  (induced voltage Vi=L*dI/dt where L is the coil inductance, I is the change in current and t is the time during which the current change happens, so the smaller the time is the higher the induced voltage you get)

Regarding the possible change of parameters in MOSFETs, if the absolute voltage and current ratings are not exceeded, they normally do not change.

(Recall what I wrote earlier on the max peak current when you can judge the max current by Ohm's law as the supply voltage divided by the coil's DC resistance, this is why it is better to start with 3-5V DC supply voltage instead of the 12V or higher, especially if your coil has a thick wire (obviously to reduce copper loss). Just as an example if your coil has only a  .3 Ohm resistance and your power supply has about .1 Ohm inner resistance and your MOSFET also has 0.1 Ohm ON resistance each (N and P channels in series), then the peak current can be at 12V supply voltage 12/(.3+.1+.1+.1)=12/.6=20A! what can only be less because of the duty cycle less than 50% etc but what I stress is you can easily approach the limits for max drain current of the different types of MOSFETs. And once you exceeded it, the MOSFET may get a damage inside.

Another data to observe is the max drain-source voltage: you have had over 800V DC collected in the capacitor, this means at least as high peak AC spike across the drain-source what the MOSFET must resist. I think you surely exceeded the 500V maximum limit the IRF840 is able to handle, though here we have to consider the series n channel IRF9540 has about 100V max VDSS rating! added to the 500V, so you still exceeded the max voltages for BOTH!  So it was a wonder your devices handled the 700-800V peaks at all....

However you changed the old FETs to new ones, now you get about 340V,  so what remains as possible explanation for the over 800V induced voltage is the loose gate contact...    (by the way, earlier I did not realize the IRF9540 has only a 100V max drain-source voltage rating, otherwise I have already warned you about it).

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 14, 2010, 12:54:32 PM
Ditto...

Can you post link to that video ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 14, 2010, 03:16:00 PM
@gyulasun

OK, thanks for the explain as usual.

I decided I am not going to spend any more days trying to hunt this effect again and will live with the present output available and work from there, otherwise I risk spending more time for nothing. I just wanted to report the problem right away so guys do not think this or that.

I have another question since my questions help me to advance to next steps. If you have one pulse generator source and two npn mosfets with their drain and source in parallel, is there a way to pulse one gate directly from the PG and then the other gate is also pulsed from the same PG but at a lower pulse rate using a capacitor/potentiometer setup.

I know you are not that familiar with the SM TPUs but in his biggest unit, he is only using one pot and we are certain he is using at least two frequencies in his coils.

@GK

Nice coil you made on your thread. You may try to add a center tap to the outer coil.

You know when we start looking at effects then get drawn into one direction for some time, often forgetting about the previous effects or even more the previous second and third trials, some time ago I was doing specific pulsing with the center ring just biased to north polarity (since in the northern hemisphere we are all swimming in the south polarity), that is when I blew my HP 214B pulse generator. My beautiful beast is no more.

I am heading back into that direction for a little while just to get that effect again and master it so I can teach others about it. I am sure it has something to do with the TPU otherwise the STPU and onwards could not have done this via straight mutual induction. There has to be a common method to work a purely biased loop. I think I know how now but will test and report back.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on June 14, 2010, 05:14:40 PM
Ditto...

May be this one?  http://www.youtube.com/user/IST814#p/u/40/5DEDo1dr7og
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 14, 2010, 05:35:21 PM
  GK and All:
   This is one of them that was posted on the 9th of this month,
but I did see various other new ones where he is explaining mode of operation.  You can start with this one:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueYaXL9aUoY&feature=related
  I was 1pm this morning when I finished viewing them, I'll see if I can come up with more of them.
                                                   NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 14, 2010, 05:58:25 PM
@NickZ

Just look in your browsers' history feature. It should show which URL you visited during the last few days.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 14, 2010, 07:07:28 PM
May be this one?  http://www.youtube.com/user/IST814#p/u/40/5DEDo1dr7og

In that video of ISTs, the only problem I have with that demo when you are showing 10 volts on the meter rising in .01 volt increments with the volt meter permanently on that high microfarad capacitor, it could be the volt meter that is charging the circuit.

To do a good demo, in this case, you need to take a volt measurement, then remove the volt meter for xx minutes, then take another voltage measurement. This is done to disqualify the possibility that the volt meter is charging the system. His circuit may in fact be working the way he says but I cannot be absolutely sure of that because he leaves the meter on all the time. I have seen this myself with so many tests that now, when I do small voltage and especially small voltage rise tests, the meter has to be removed from the system for at least 99% of the time. But I would have liked to see a circuit diagram to test it myself. Hmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 14, 2010, 07:11:54 PM
   e2Matrix and All:
   Yes, that was one of the videos where he (IST) explains about using the device's own output to feed-back unto themselves, in order to run with gain.
  Now it seams like his newer way of controlling the unit, so that the running gain doesn't take off on itself and self destruct the device. Is by using the smallest AAA battery as a source, so that the input is as small as possibly, and thus in some way limits it, and by using that approch, avoids it from self destructing. Instead producing much higher voltage, and current by pulcing the coils magnetic field aided by a big Neo magnet.. Can also be upscaled to any useable size. 
  Main point is: A device will runs with gain, because the output is fed-back to the input.  That may be the secret that SM had mentioned, but  never really specified as to just how to do it.  The missing link?  I think that may be what IST is telling us.
      NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 14, 2010, 07:39:33 PM
  @Otto:
     I did notice a little black box (occilator circuit, potenciometer, and on/off switch?) that is used by IST in his later videos when testing his newer Ali coil design.  May be similar to what you had noticed with the occilators, as also being very important.
   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 14, 2010, 09:30:29 PM
  All: 
   Although this video is predated to IST's last ones, it may best explain and demostrate the current funtionings of his working TPU set-ups.
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DEDo1dr7og&feature=related

   @Watsup:
      Hopefully he will see your suggestions and comments, and will disconnect the meters, during the next test charge up time, and reconnect them back up later, thus showing the difference when no meters are on.  In anycase, it looks promising:
Feed-back occilations From the Secondary back to the Primary, bucking against the Earth's Magnetic Pulse, and running like crazy. He Does Have -Overload protection-.
 In one of his newer units,  he's connecting only one AAA to the primary of a florescent tube balast, then... we'll see what happens, next.   I had to go to sleep.
                                                        NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: FatBird on June 14, 2010, 09:34:28 PM
IST,  Your video demonstration is just about worthless without a schematic.

Without a schematic, the only thing we see are a bunch of wires & parts while the camera is shifting back & forth.

If you don't know how to draw a schematic, then please show us a wiring & parts diagram.


Thank you.

.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 14, 2010, 10:41:43 PM
...

I have another question since my questions help me to advance to next steps. If you have one pulse generator source and two npn mosfets with their drain and source in parallel, is there a way to pulse one gate directly from the PG and then the other gate is also pulsed from the same PG but at a lower pulse rate using a capacitor/potentiometer setup.

I know you are not that familiar with the SM TPUs but in his biggest unit, he is only using one pot and we are certain he is using at least two frequencies in his coils.
...

Well, by connecting two MOSFETs in parallel by their drain-source and controlling them different frequencies is possible and used solution for mixing frequencies.  However if you are a 100% sure there was one PG, then you can make a different frequency from the single PG frequency by multiplying or dividing it before inputting it to one of the gate electrodes. This may mean 2x  3x etc multiplication and this solution does not need a cap + a potmeter unless the potmeter controls the amplitude of one of the inputs, if this makes sense here.
There is another possibility for using a cap + a pot when you integrate the output pulse of the PG by an RC component pair: you can delay the second MOSFET switch-on time by integrating the PG's output pulse, see this link how: http://hobby_elec.piclist.com/e_ckt2.htm   But this is the same frequency, except the switch-on happens a bit later than for the first MOSFET, the delay could be varied by varying the R value. Maybe this delay can also cause some effect...
I have to leave for about 8 days, will be back next week on Friday or so.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 15, 2010, 12:19:19 AM
   @FatBird:
    I was just looking at this video by IST, and thought about you, (asking about the IST circuits), so maybe this video helps, as it openly shows the the components used -2N3055, resistor, diode, etz...   Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2mK1yJcRA4
   I thank him for showing us what he found.  I feel that there very well could be something to it all, 
  We slow ones, just take longer to get it.   
  I honestly did not sleep last night thinking about it.
  "No rocket science. No complicated circuitry".
   Seams to work, so far.
                                   NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 15, 2010, 01:35:49 AM
@gyulasun

OK I understand what you mean and guess I will have to watch out when I test this. Thanks again and see you back.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 15, 2010, 06:57:37 AM
  Guys:
    IST, showing proof concept Ali coil, without a capacitor, charging a battery and self running. 
  This will be the last video that I post of his.  My thanks to  IST.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B1OeFPtk4k&feature=related
                         NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 15, 2010, 07:42:02 PM
    @ All:
     My only conclusion of what might be happening in the TPU Devices after years of studying the subject, and watching thousands of videos from all over the world, and my failed attempts collecting dust in the closet, is that: We don't really know what is going on,  yet. 
  Are we getting closer to a working magnetic, solid state, non moving device?  At least, we're seeing what doesn't work. There's hope,  Alot!
                        "The poetic justice of stumbleing"...
   
   I will continue in my faithful search, with the idea that there may be more to this than what test instruments can pick up, or tell us, and that there may also be more than just electrons coming in from the Aether.
            NZ
                 
   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 15, 2010, 09:08:10 PM
http://www.rexresearch.com/plauson/plauson.htm

Now PLEASE explain me why magnetic loop antenna is electrically much longer then physically ? The rest is simple - we are like bird on HT wire when locally there is so small difference of potential then we don't see it exacept when something create lightning sometimes...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wings on June 16, 2010, 09:12:25 AM
http://www.rexresearch.com/plauson/plauson.htm

Now PLEASE explain me why magnetic loop antenna is electrically much longer then physically ? The rest is simple - we are like bird on HT wire when locally there is so small difference of potential then we don't see it exacept when something create lightning sometimes...



because "standing waves is established along a closed path"

Patent 4622558

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=sgAGAAAAEBAJ&dq=4622558

"An electrically small, efficient electromagnetic structure, that may be used as an antenna or waveguide probe, having an electromagnetically closed, velocity-inhibiting conducting path, for supporting a standing, inhibited-velocity wave in response to the flow of an electrical current through the...
Inventor: Janes F. Corum"

see also :

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100059692.pdf
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Hoppy on June 16, 2010, 05:54:13 PM
Hi Nick & all,

A into the TPU has  almost become a religion. I remain fairly convinced that the whole SM episode was a very clever scam but we may never know for sure. As you say, at least we are seeing what does not work and that is progress. Hat's off to all those who have laboured to discover the secret.

Hoppy

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on June 16, 2010, 06:37:19 PM
Hoppy,  It appears that a number of people here have built TPU's that have shown OU.  Some are well documented in video and writings.  I think some others have built successful ones and are continuing to refine things with them but they may not be screaming to the masses that they 'did it' because of the dangers involved in this unit.  I still plan on giving the TPU a try at some point. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Hoppy on June 16, 2010, 07:35:41 PM
Hi e2matrix,

That's great news! I've not come across these replications and supporting data sets. Can you please name those that have claimed OU, so that I can backtrack and find their posts?

Hoppy

Hoppy,  It appears that a number of people here have built TPU's that have shown OU.  Some are well documented in A and writings.  I think some others have built successful ones and are continuing to refine things with them but they may not be screaming to the masses that they 'did it' because of the dangers involved in this unit.  I still plan on giving the TPU a try at some point.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on June 17, 2010, 02:23:29 AM
I believe there is a message thread in the SM subforum titled 'successful tpu replication' or something similar.  You'll find some in there.  I think otto, Jason O (don't know his exact user name here but dig around and you'll see his setup) an possibly agentgates (but I'm not clear on that story) as well as a couple others I won't name because I don't think they want the attention or questions (for reasons I stated in my last message) but I'm fairly sure they have had some OU with their setups.  I think some others have also claimed success but I'm skeptical of some of them.  I haven't even begun to get through all the TPU message threads so there may be more.  I also had thought this may have been a scam as I heard about it well over 10 years ago and while it sounded great at first their was some serious debunking be put out about SM so I thought 'just another scammer' but now I think there is enough evidence that I plan on giving it a try sometime. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 17, 2010, 04:13:48 AM
What's rain?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPB1sSh7yWw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2fF9aSEeVo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNe73Y-T5Hc&feature=related

He says nothing that has not already been proven:
And he is using a battery like a capacitor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaCk0jK--8s&feature=related
Bearden's meg is the same thing only the core rocks back and forth to do the switching very fast. Kapeesh?
The TPU fires in a circular core so the secondary bemfs into the primary causing a reverse firing. The ring oscillates forward and backward. Comprende'

youtube: bill muller.
google: bill muller

Same as it ever was...

--gk.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on June 17, 2010, 07:10:26 AM
Hello all,

I see that my name is mentioned. Yes, the ECD is a very good device but has to be pulsed in another way. As I cant get the needed parts I dont want to talk about how to do it. I dont want to guess or mislead the people.

Otto

PS: I can only read my PMs but not answer because something is wrong.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Hoppy on June 17, 2010, 09:35:02 AM
@ e2matrix

Thanks for the lead.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 17, 2010, 08:55:42 PM
   @Gk, Otto, & All:
   I see that we are now a closer knit family, as a couple of other related threads appear to be gone, for now.  Any ways, Otto I share your frustration in getting your parts.  But, while You're waiting...         and anybody else that might be interested:
  I wanted to share my observations: So,please...
  First:
  It seams that the primary coils can be made or formed in various working shapes and sizes, and that all coils or even just a tight wire, can be pulsed, and a magnetic field detected, and later harnested and rectified as usable energy.     
  Second:That a trifilir coil, or bifilar coil might be able to some how replicate the intermodulation effect that was mentioned by SM in his (three intermodulated frequencies) lastest designs.
  My point is that a similar effect may be achieved using only One main pulse, connect to One big Trifiliar wound coil that has Three Different sized wires, trifiliar wound on a single coil, as some guys are working on now.  Further connect with a secondary coil attached on top or (below) the primary coil,  that is in part redirected back to the primary source circuit,  and further adding strenght to it's own field strenght. 
  Third: That the primary coil can be pulsed through an occilating circuit, and the on-off, or back-and forth pulse that is created by occilations using the 555, or 2N3055 design can be used to feed-back from the secondary back into the primary. Thus creating a resonatiing snake bitting its tail effect. In which case a Capacitor may not be totally essential in this part of the circuit,  if there is a single self charging battery to start the unit, or to avoid the battery (if not wanted), by using a big self charging capacitor to start and run the device by itself.   
  As mentioned earlier, the only way that I can see that a solid state device with NO moving parts,  ever starting and running without an extenal power source is: that it has to have a battery (however small), or a capacitor, to start, regardless of coil design.   There are many ways to get to the same effect.
Self running with gain...  to  feed-back the first kick to the Earth's magnetic field as it forms the negative wormhole constant, that pushed Aether energy into our coils from the surrounding space. Which is then by resonace picked up by the coils,  (like sound waves breaking a wine glass),  and this resonance further causes an amplification of the frequency, from the original pulse that was sent.   
   Any ways, that how I see it.
    I does look like the TPU is nothing but a Big Joule Thief,
 after all.
  Or am I on the wrong path? If so, please kindly direct me.



Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 17, 2010, 11:10:15 PM
Bingo!

The multiple layered control coils act as a magnifing transmitter or xfilar pancake coil. It is run from outside to inside to compress the last couple turns into a electro nuclear transmission event. Now apply a very fast pulse like a low conductive, high speed shock wave from a cmos switch event gated to a Mosfet. See the 'mos'? All we did was magnify the transition event. Now look at the field compression in the center around the stranded core and the vortex in the center of the ring itself acting as a feedback storage or echo.


Breaking Benjamin: 'Blow me away' or Joe Satriani: 'House full of bullets'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvLfL2z64QY&feature=related
Quote
They fall in line
One at a time
Ready to play
I can't see them anyway
No time to lose
We've got to move
Steady your hand
I am losing sight again
Fire your guns
Its time to run
Blow me away
I will stay unless I may
After the fall
We'll shake it off
Show me the way

Only the strongest will survive
Lead me to heaven when we die
I have a shadow on the wall
I'll be the one to save us all

There's nothing left
So save your breath
Lying and wait
Caught inside this tidal wave
You're covers blown
No where to go
Holding your fate
Knowing that I will walk alone
Fire your guns
Its time to run
Blow me away
I will stay unless I may
After the fall
We'll shake it off
Show me the way

Only the strongest will survive
Lead me to heaven when we die
I have a shadow on the wall
I'll be the one to save us all
You wanted it back

Only the strongest will survive
Lead me to heaven when we die
I have a shadow on the wall
I'll be the one to save us all
Save us all
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 01:17:41 AM
     @Gk and All:
      To Focus and Compress the kick pulses inwardly possibly using a magnetically reflective dome on top and bottom, may have some advantages. So, resonant gains are not dissipated into space, instead are mirrored back to some degree. Like a magnetic implosion, creating a perpetual negative spring constant. That is contained within the dome or sphere,
therefore less likely to affect everything around the devices.
                                                                              NZ

                                                                           
                                                                                         
   
                                                                     
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 18, 2010, 04:49:22 AM
Timothy Thrapp has a dome and a sphere.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 06:10:31 AM
    2all:
        The magnetic shield idea or more precise to call it an inverse reflector of sorts,  needs to be tested. But my possibly naive feelings are, that there is as much magnetic flux from the Aether inside the dome or sphere, as there is outside of it.  As the Aether is not dependent on matter. But, once we have modified Aether energy, by passing though capacitors, it is no longer Aether, but something else. And maybe the reason it does not always show up on the scope, even though batteries can show a +  gain,  sometimes even volts also won't register.
  My concern is for the safety of everything around a device like that.  As it has been shown that some UFOs when landing on earth can leave the ground not only burnt like glass, but nothing grows there again.  They are seen mostly in the form of a flying disk or spheres, also.  Why is that?
   Yes, I know there is a difference, but...We may be working with the same energy, ultimately, just as one candle light flame comes from same source as a big fire.
  We need to stop burning things, anyway, before it's too late. We are not cave men, and there should be a law. He he, ha ha
                                                     
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 07:22:16 AM
  Gk:
    Great call. I saw his video a couple of months ago when it first came out, but I had forgotten about it.  Thanks for remembering.
  It is the closest thing to what I'm working towards yet, and they are available for questions, maybe,     not like some folks....
  For those who have not seen it,  enjoy.   
  http://www.youtube.com/user/wits2014#p/u/1/9RO6AXftkDg
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on June 18, 2010, 07:33:23 AM
This is not addressed at anybody in particular, but I was just browsing these threads again and I feel like saying that nobody will discover and replicate a TPU because there is not enough accurate information, and the information we do have doesn't carry across too accurately either.

This effort is like interpolating with a few shifting data points, and we each see a different phenomena at work and cherish our own theories.  We will even be arguing when somebody does seem to "replicate" something that resembles the TPU because we don't know what a TPU is exactly, but the folks that pay attention to details and have their feet firmly grounded in reality will know what to look for.

So, having said that, the TPU's as claimed by Steven Mark, the inventor, ARE NOT FREE ENERGY devices!  They extract energy from the earth's magnetic field , from a particular frequency, because they are tuned to it. See his first video and listen to what he says. 
Also, knowing where SM tested the devices and checking out the area surrounding this so called "mansion", it becomes quite apparent what frequencies he was dealing with.

The frequencies are so low that they fall within the hearing range of the human ear, and that's what we hear in some of the videos.  The phenomena to research is acoustic resonance and coupling to magnetic loops.

Let me make it a little simpler.   The TPU's are high Q vibrating rings!  They vibrate, get it?  Just like a guitar string vibrates, or like a drum vibrates or a bell or tuning fork.

Why do they vibrate?   Because there is a magnetic field oscillating around them which induces a current in the ring, AND,  WHEN A MAGNET IS BROUGHT CLOSE TO THE RINGS, THE CURRENT NOW PRODUCES A FORCE ON THE RING.  Now we have effectively created a transducer of magnetic energy to vibrational energy, but obviously we need the correct diameter ring so it can resonate with the magnetic frequency.  That's where some of the magic that SM was talking about comes in.   I won't talk about that because few people understand it and I will just be wasting my time.

Here's a simple "TPU" like device that you can build and extract energy from a magnetic frequency, like the PLH frequencies which he undoubtedly used.

Set up a thick guitar string between two posts and close the loop, i.e. connect the ends with a wire so an electric loop is formed.  Make sure to use thick wire for low resistance.  Now bring a magnet close to the string and adjust the tension until it resonates.  You can use a transformer to step up the voltage which is flowing in the loop.  This is essentially the same receiver phenomena as the TPU but it's not quite a TPU because it's not circular geometry like a ring which begins to resonate and propagate circular waves round and round it's circumference, the "turbine" effect he was referring too.   This is what causes the apparent DC current.

so acoustics and magnetic phenomena, keep that in mind.

EM

P.S.  this is what I'm talking about essentially.  The external magnetic field has a particular frequency, which induces an AC current in the conducting ring or loop, etc, and this current when flowing past the strong static magnetic field of the magnet, produces an oscillating force on the ring that causes vibrations.  When the frequencies are right the ring will vibrate quite intensely.  So as an analogy, the magnet and the induced current become the "hammer" that strikes the "bell".
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on June 18, 2010, 12:03:00 PM
Hello all,

@EM

can you send me a mail? so I can see your mail adress?

My mail is osabljaric@kbd.hr

Otto

PS: my PMs dont work
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 05:25:46 PM
  2 All:
     Along the same line as the previous video, but with more detailed information.  This tested and prooven unit is the best example so far, of what the SM thread can be working on.  Uses a toroid coil, a start and run capacitor, no batteries on this one, no external power source, and does NOT heat up, runs for as long as needed. The device will output some mayor watts, and it's portable. What more could one ask for. May even be for sale soon.  I'm sure that by now more advances have been made. Uses the dome (as being essential), but mentions that the sphere is the best way to go. 
 I did not copy their inverse reflector shield idea, it just came to me.
  Their working ideas come from Tesla, Keely, and Henry Moray, in case you're wondering... 
    The original working units were made back in 1993.
    Thanks to GK, for bringing it to our attention.  A must see....
  http://www.youtube.com/user/wits2014#p/u/17/f5WKz_gf1u8
                                                                              NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 06:16:23 PM
  @EM: 
     When anybody says that the SM type EM generator will NEVER be replicated...  I would have to say,  think again.   
     We are in good hands, and we have as long as needed to get it working.  You, my friend we see...
                                                   Nick
                                     
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 18, 2010, 06:21:22 PM
Possibly this shape too?

T.T.Brown says so...

Lets review the specs:

Internal power supply, small reactor with amplification, floating ground, reflective coverings, electrostatic production from HV.

Simply a stun gun with the last stage of a grand configuration, reflecting gravity.  ;)

Steering is simply done by moving the center control off center a little, like the offset center toroids in the SM17.

Two fields at oblique angles producing a formerly unknown effect. P2.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/occultether/occultether.htm

EM's statements are very valid. Even more so if the viewer changes their reference ever so slightly.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: frii143 on June 18, 2010, 06:41:17 PM
EMdevices have you seen the this is a wind generator that viberates with light winds. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/solar-wind/4224763

When you mentioned that TPU use viberations I thought of it. I no it doesn't have anything to do with your work but its interesting anyways.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 07:40:15 PM
  Guys: 
   While I was watching videos, this is what my daughter came up with...  she says that she is waiting for the wiring diagram.
   I thought that you might like to see it now,  though,  so,
here it is:  Picture Below.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 18, 2010, 07:42:45 PM
@Nz,
She has a sharp mind to 'Interface dreams to reality'.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 18, 2010, 07:59:19 PM
  2All: 
  She said that it was a secret, not to tell anybody.    If she only knew...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 19, 2010, 03:52:36 PM
Timothy Thrapp has a dome and a sphere.

Yes, that is interesting. I posted something relative to that a week ago on the overunityresearch web site located here;
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=297.msg3664#msg3664

@EM

Thanks for your post. I get the message. But you know we have to do so many peripheral tests just to learn about effects and how they interplay with each other, Yes, SM's HV tower neighbors may have an effect on his devices. But even then, we are still learning about effects. I need more time to think about your post.

@All

I have been pondering about coils/rings and thinking WTF have I not tried yet and the list is getting smaller and smaller. I have pulsed rings and coils in so many ways and I was trying to think of a way I have never pulsed a coil. I think I found one way that will be my next trials as shown in the diagram below which is in line with the blotch wall moving idea. But in this case you do not move the blotch wall. You just stop the ring at the coils blotch wall so the blotch is not even on the ring, or less of the blotch is on the ring.

As you can see in the diagram below which can be configured in many ways, the idea is to have two rings of X turns or even two loops. The two impulse coils are wrapped so that the one coil jumps from one ring to the other at the blotch wall. This will give you four pulsed polarities onto two rings and NO blotch wall actually passing over the rings. Now if the connections can be tested to provide maximum forward movement either each ring have a north and south in same direction or inversed, or one ring gets two norths while  the other get two souths, well, this I have never tried before. I have never done this before so some tests in this direction are next. I just wonder what the effect will be on a ring that gets pulsed by two half coils without blotch walls.

@otto

I saw your posts with thanks. I will try to put it together as best as I can understand it. But please look at the diagram below as it may give you some ideas for the ECD coil/ring relations since the ECD is using three CC's that include north and south sides but also include a blotch wall on each.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 19, 2010, 06:28:32 PM
   Guys:
    I have been studying the Dome and Sphere Devices , created the Ministries, and I can see that they are not providing much info on what is inside their dome, or how it Really Works. Unless you join them and hear the Word, also.  As I have already heard the Word, a long time ago, it' back to Keely or Moray for me.  The fact that the small dome works better than anything else,  so far, and can be built to any size needed, with massive current, that will even start a car, will keep me plugging along to find its secret means of operation.   Any ideas on obtaining more info on that technology are welcome.
    The Big JT boys (and girl), seem to be working towards an up-scale of their devices, which also appears to bring us all closer together. In an effort to point anybody interested in that direction I mention this video below:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=maRF1nw0J2Q

   Lidmotor has been able to light at least one CFL, while charging a battery.  This to me looks like energy production from its own source, and not from an external input.  Don't know if it could be called OU, but who cares,  so long as it's lighting our way to more and better concepts.  Using only two small 12v batteries, one 2N3055, a diode,  a pot or two, and of course, the trick of it all,  is his specially wound trifiliar coil.   He explains his coil procedure well and offers a full diagram, not like other devices.  It's an interesting combination of several peoples efforts. 
  It occured to me that...
  I in order to graduate from the -University of Energy and Light-, 
one may need to start at 1 st grade.
  That's like... me.     But, I feel like I'm still in kindergarden.
                                                                         
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 19, 2010, 08:44:48 PM
  Gk, Wattsup, & All:
        While I was looking at the reference that wattsup made in the other forum, about the domes and such, again my daughter got into my stuff, and came up with this.  Although it can't fly, we did get a current weather report emanating out of it.  (See Below)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 19, 2010, 09:15:09 PM
This is especially for wattsup,otto and giantkiller

Do you have any program or tool to draw Bloch wall ? I'm really really interested in seeing Bloch wall for one small magnet put inside one pole of huge magnet so that it sinks in only one pole field (N or S) of that big magnet. I know you understand how important it could be...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 20, 2010, 01:24:01 AM
@forest

Sorry but I don't really understand your question. You can maybe expand on it a little more.

My definition of Blotch Wall may not be the same as @GK's, and I think @otto is not to concerned about it these days. I am talking about that area of a coil that shows no polarity. Your compass will point to the north and south ends but in the center, it will just stay half way. That area is the blotch wall.

The idea of the diagram above is to use only the active parts of the two coils which are the north and south polarities to move energy in the ring. In essence this would make four active monopoles.

You see, in the conventional set-up you have a coil wound over a conductive ring. You then pulse the coil and move energy in the ring, that energy has to always pass the blotch wall section of the coil and I am thinking that may act as a sort of breaking point that the coils' induction to the ring has to overcome continuously.

In a magnet rotor generator, you can get great amperage output but the difference there is that you have magnets that are either north or south oriented towards the stator coils. The stator is never exposed to the magnets' blotch wall. This is the basis of my next tests. I have done enough coil/ring tests that if there is anything out of the ordinary, I will see it soon enough.

More to come........
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 20, 2010, 01:25:55 AM
@NickZ

Nice photo. Maybe if you plant some small transistors they will grow into big fat mosfets. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 20, 2010, 04:28:12 AM
  @Wattsup:
     Thank you for your comments, first time you've answered me.
I thought that that would work. I will let my daughter know that she needs to water it.  We'll let you know, if that works any better. 
  As I am now a Jr. Member here, instead of newbie, I will try to respond to your 1730th post, concerning the -Block Wall-: 
  Well,  I really didn't even know it existed, as I've never seen it. But, my previous suggestion was in viewing the Lidmotor video, as he has done what possibly nobody else has done so far, with a very simple circuit. And is showing in his 243rd video that a bifiliar coil with a seconday coil wound on top of the same coil, will work, if wound correctly.  That was my point in mentioning it.  It does not output the kind of amps that Timothy (MITTS) is talking about, but it's a start.
     Otto mentioned that he may be able to respond if you e-mail him at the address that he has provided.  Or, maybe since he had such a good time, he might be on a permanent vacation,  like me, as I can't afford to work, anymore.
   Glad you liked my last picture.  More updates on that later. 
                                                                                       NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on June 20, 2010, 05:48:04 AM
@all

I made a drawing for you guys , i forgot to include the core coil and it timing ... 1 2 1 2
     3    3
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 20, 2010, 06:32:36 AM
@Forest,
I know you've seen this before. It has all the devices in it.
SM stated 'weak magnetic field'.
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Patents/DE3024814.pdf

Magnacoaster is doing same thing.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 20, 2010, 07:24:15 PM
    Guys:
   I have a question! 
   It is the same to have an oscillator resonator circuit, that is just turning the pulse on/off, or,  is it really more important to have the whole magnetic domains oscillating from positive to negative and back to positive again, to reach the desired effect?
  My feelings are:  that it's not enough to just turn it off and on, regardless of using AC, DC, high voltage, or a minimum of low voltage.    And that also,  with a Minimum magnetic pulse the whole magnetic domains will entirely shift and oscillate,  and will do the trick, with any coil, possibly thanks to the magnets.   What do you think?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 20, 2010, 07:47:18 PM
I will ask again : when two magnets are close together N to N pole  - is there a Bloch wall between them ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 20, 2010, 09:23:43 PM
No,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_wall. It happens in a domain volume of magnetic matter.

And there has to a reconnection of broken flux lines to achieve the 'reading' process. The spark gap causes a huge misalignment in domains. The realignment is the process that creates the retrievable energy.

I will ask again : when two magnets are close together N to N pole  - is there a Bloch wall between them ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 20, 2010, 10:04:40 PM
I will ask again : when two magnets are close together N to N pole  - is there a Bloch wall between them ?

No there is not. There will only be a repulsion zone and the two blotch walls will still be in the center of each magnet, between the north and the south.

    Guys:
   I have a question! 
   It is the same to have an oscillator resonator circuit, that is just turning the pulse on/off, or,  is it really more important to have the whole magnetic domains oscillating from positive to negative and back to positive again, to reach the desired effect?
  My feelings are:  that it's not enough to just turn it off and on, regardless of using AC, DC, high voltage, or a minimum of low voltage.    And that also,  with a Minimum magnetic pulse the whole magnetic domains will entirely shift and oscillate,  and will do the trick, with any coil, possibly thanks to the magnets.   What do you think?

The AC is a sine wave that "gradually" changes direction in the "two" wires it is connected too. You would require a DC sine pulse reserving to equal the AC, or almost. Pulse a coil to make a magnets field shift will be very energy intensive.

@MK1

Nice diagram. Just last night before I saw your post I was doing some field polarity mapping of one of my toroidal coils that has just two bucking coils. Yours shows four coils in bucking mode with four more wound at the blotch walls of the first ones. I don't know what effect that will give.

I can tell you that in a bucking coil with two coils, if you apply a steady DC power to it, the polarities will be starting north on first coil, to finish south on first coil then jumps to south on the second coil to finish back to north on the second coil.
If you reverse the power supply those fields will reverse also. But you will never be N S N S. It will either be N S S N or S N N S. I was surprised to see this because where the positive and negative are connected you would expect two polarities but in fact there is only one.

Hmmmmmmm. So if you put a H-Bridge on a bucking coil you will get a very strong shift of the polarities because each side is double the same polarity.

Anyways, if you test that out please let us know what the result is. I may try it myself some time but right now I am up to my neck in tests.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 20, 2010, 10:17:26 PM
  Forest & GK:
    As I couldn't open your block wall link, I sent this one instead:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_wall  it worked for me.
   I would also agree with GK, and mention that although there is a dipole to everything, it is really only one current force. If interested I can explain.
  My idea of a block wall is the area between the + and - where no magnetic forces are present.  Block wall terminology can be somewhat confusing. 
 
    I know that my previous question concerning magnetic domain reversals may not be very easy to answer, but, if anybody wants take a try at it, please do, as I have more to say about it , but would like to hear your thoughts, just in case they resonate.
                                                                        NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 21, 2010, 12:37:29 AM
  2 All:   
  Check out this pic of the Keely type sphere.   Vibrational Physics.
   All I can say is... WOW.  sure looks good, but I'll bet it can't pick up the weather report, though.
 
 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on June 21, 2010, 05:53:13 AM
  If we collect rf currents on thousands of antennaes and convert the rf currents to power the primary oscillator.  From where would the energy come from to overcome losses in transmission of the power between the primary oscillator and the receiving oscillators and then back again.  The only place I can see it coming from is the restorative energy of the field.  If a core is magnetized and remains magnetized then we would be in trouble.  The energy density would be forever altered in that core.  This is not the case.  The core only retains it's state of magnetic permeation for a defined interval.  Eventually the magnet is destroyed by themal agitation of the atoms involved and you got yourself a little thermal to electrical conversion. By creating the secondary core permeation by use of rf the primary is uncoupled from the secondary.  The events are displaced by time and space.  The secondary currents do not effect the primary core magnetization parameters.  The secondary currents do not effect the impedance of the primary.  The primary can run as if it is choked and drawing very little current but transmitting emwaves.  The receiver then collects the waves in such a manner as to create a current that flows through the magnetizing winding.  The output winding experiences the changing magnetic field and outputs a voltage.  This ouput winding is close coupled magnetically to the receiver winding.  The core material has flipped its domains in response to the primary or middle winding currents.  The output winding has produced an emf in response to the changing magnetic field produced by the rf induced current.  There is a power transfer of say 80percent from transmitter to receiver to ouput.  Now the core material isnt feeling the rf currents anymore and is in an unnatural state.  The ambient energy says your way too ordered and must return to chaos.  The magnetic core domains begin to breakdown until they return to the ambient field conditions.  This magnetic field change is driven from energy of the field not of the primary.  It delivers another 80 percent of the intial energy used by the transmitter.  Thats 16o percent.  Every cycle.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wings on June 21, 2010, 09:48:26 AM
@Forest,
I know you've seen this before. It has all the devices in it.
SM stated 'weak magnetic field'.
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Patents/DE3024814.pdf

Magnacoaster is doing same thing.

similar to kunel patent

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/EVGRAY%20research%20-%20Vibrator%20circuit%20By%20Gary%20Porter.pdf


Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 22, 2010, 12:03:55 AM
A fast switching is a good start whether in solid state or queching. Either way you are to 'get out of the way' as quick as possible to let the natural or physical forces slam it shut. That's all there this to generating it. Now when that closes on a coil the inductance / impedance skyrockets (cannon balls).
Another coil in the vicinity to read that activity. The bucking config then increases the activity.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: darkspeed on June 22, 2010, 12:26:24 AM


So Chef why did you disappear?

There is a lot more to the ground plane blocking rotation based on polarity i was going to show you.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: darkspeed on June 22, 2010, 12:43:29 AM
Sorry, I don't like  places, where peoples got messages after posting, from the admins, to remove, what they said, and think, let it be anything. I know in this case, it was nothing serious, but if that  happens, who knows who read you privat messages, privat chat logs, etc., and what would be the next censored post  :-[

wow must have missed that - did they ask you to remove something technical or just an off color comment?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 22, 2010, 01:18:46 AM
@Loner

I am not qualified enough to answer your questions but I would imagine everything is relative to what is being used to produce the RE and to capture the RE. Everything has its own frequency response and trying to produce a set standard may be difficult.

Good question though.

@Chef

Man oh man I like that spiraling. Especially inside the coil. Was that coil being energized or pulsed or  just open or short circuited. Have you ever tried using a good sized toroid coil with a bucking winding around that tube, or, even a pancake coil just to see the reaction. Pretty nice to see the effect live. Thanks.

@All

Very curiously I tried the previous diagram I posted with a stranded copper loop and a outer coil wire of "I think" aluminum or tinned. It is the first time I have ever pulsed something that did not even give me anything on the secondary. There is a slight coupling but very slight. Almost dead. I will try it with more different wire types and also adjust where in the blotch or just out of the blotch wall the wires come out. I think this is a good omen that when I hit the right mix, it should work great. Just have to better understand the parameters.

I asked a question on the Tariel Kapanadze thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7679.msg246130#msg246130
I wonder what the answer would have been.
Two Earth grounded potentials on a coil. Could that produce a North singular polarity? That would be great if you knew how to pulse it without destroying the polarity? Put that with Earth's South polarity and you have the two ingredients for further coupling. But maybe that is tooooooo easy.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on June 22, 2010, 03:24:31 AM
Notice that  the spiraling has a self-canceling effect since it accelerates on one side and then decelerates on the other side.   This is all well-known, but still an excellent clue.

dV/Dt isn' a good way to look at it.   150 million volts per second just doesn't sound right.   Look at the rate of change and the peak voltage.  You want a lot of voltage and a fast rate of change.  The popular term "stop the current" is true to some degree, but is a poor statement as you can't and do not need to stop it, only restrict it and slow it down.  The aspect that you want preceeds the current and is a well-known occurance by another name.

RE really isn't the mystery that everyone makes it out to be and anyone that perpetuates the "mystery" is is full of crap.





Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on June 22, 2010, 05:06:52 AM
Thanks to all!

I will qualify my Question a bit, just for the clarity, but I am now sure that this one will have to be answered by experimentation.  The dV/dt I'm talking about, better known as rate of change, is the ONLY value I wish to spec out, for the time being.  (I'm really into baby steps on this one...)

This value, at some level, will be fast enough to produce what I will call the "RE Effect".  Once the "Base" minimum is known, then adding an inductance, instead of a simple block of copper, will be much easier to determine other effects.  There are THREE areas I'm looking at.  (Very simple, but...)  The initial Rise, where I expect effect # one.  The "Steady state", where current has started to flow, and standard electrical rules begin to apply.  This is just to mark it happens.  Second, the Fall, where there are two aspects.  The speed of the fall will have TWO separate effects.  One is the fall, due to the initial "Rise" and the other is the fall from the steady state "Current".  THESE TWO are what I need to define, as there seems to be a lot of confusion as to what the differences of them are.  (For me, at least...) At this point, I don't even know if the rise and fall time requirements are the same!  (All this assumes Minimal Inductance, to simplify the experiment as much as possible.  I.E.  Max 1/2 Turn.  Any more than that and all the basics for normal current start playing on my head and need to be accounted for.  This seems simpler to me, for now.)

GK, good Magnetic concept.  I'm starting to question if the "Initial" pulse, before "Current" flows, has normal Magnetic Effects.  I will keep what you mention firmly in the back of my head for addition, once the basics are within my grasp.

Wattsup, that is interesting, but I can't wrap my head around that one.  I would only be able to see that N-N magnet with a true dipole current that was previously modified to remove "Normal" current.  I Can wonder, though.

OK, I've blabbed enough.  Thanks for the input.  (Loved the spirals!  One day the light bulb may light in my head, but not yet....   Yeah, I'm slow.)

(If I ever get "Useful" results, I'll post the prints, part spec sheets, etc.  I don't feel the need to clog things up with my useless junk.)

Loner, there are very few people that can answer your questions.  Most just do  not know the correct answers, more are not at will to discuss it, and the last couple of people aren't here. 

See, the little RE thing that Tesla discovered is the masterlink of the chain.  Without it, you got nothin'.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Qwert on June 22, 2010, 06:39:24 AM
Quote from: NickZ link=topic=8185.msg245664#msg245664 =1276874746

    Thanks to GK, for bringing it to our attention.  A must see....
  http://www.youtube.com/user/wits2014#p/u/17/f5WKz_gf1u8
                                                                              NZ
NickZ, are you out of your mind??? This is a SCAM!!!!!!!!!! What is this video about? It presents, like the accompanying web-site, only good wishes, and... asks to contribute! An attempt to join ends up with a denial... maybe except that mentioned contribution.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 22, 2010, 08:06:11 AM
I see you are starting to grasp how easy it can be.
First rate of change - Faraday law of induction allow us to use weak field faster to get the same effects as using strong field slower.
Earth field is weak.Earth field is huge and device  is in area of one pole. Now, two N N or two S S magnetic poles push themselves away.If you see magnetic field lines seems to be squeezed.
We put small magnet inside huge one pole Earth magnet and preferably one pole should be inside and OPPOSING pole outside pushing away Earth field (bow shock).You can do it fast or slow , not matter - this is when we have to put energy (doing is fast means  smaller energy is needed). What is important is very abrupt collapse of our magnet so Earth field will reconnect.And there is inertia with every energy and mass so it will be longitudinal wave of contraction and then opposite like heart beating.You have to have device in resonance with that and form open path separate from original power source, open path connected to Earth electric subsystem - here is flowing high frequency radiant energy,between positive air and negative ground.Recreating lightning using radiant energy (electromagnetic pulse) to generating displacement current in Earth capacitor.

That's why I asked to show magnetic field around small magnet placed inside huge magnet pole.Now you see that problem is two-kind :
- a method of generating radiant energy
- optimal coils embodiment to have smooth field having one pole inside surrounded by other pole (and opposite to Earth)

No more theory  ;D I did found it the simplest possible.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 22, 2010, 05:38:41 PM
@Qwert,
I never implied 'taking the dirt to market'. I was merely advancing the cause by harvesting the nuggets. Whether Witt has it or not doesn't matter. What is being shown is not far off from where our focuses are. Agreed?

NickZ, are you out of your mind??? This is a SCAM!!!!!!!!!! What is this video about? It presents, like the accompanying web-site, only good wishes, and... asks to contribute! An attempt to join ends up with a denial... maybe except that mentioned contribution.

@Forest,
I totaly agree with you. Not that you need that but the many ways this explanation becomes available makes it safe for all.

@Loner,
'DITTO!'

@All,
For anybody that has been at this while, besides the huge amount of information that we all have accumulated, you should have a tidy little file of pertainant facts, no? Probably a specific set of instructions if looked at the right way...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 22, 2010, 05:41:08 PM
   Qwert:
     I was refering to the device,  not about their organization.
  More people than just you have questions concerning how MITTS goes about their bussiness. They say that they have 50 people working on their devices.  But, from the looks of it, since 1993 they have not done anything with that particular dome shaped device.  It's too bad! I do share your thoughts. Although not about me.
   
  Besides the videos made by SM, and a couple others, there have been no other devices like that one, shown anywhere...   that will even start a car.  But, I do feel that there are other devices like that, that already exist and that may even work much better than what has been shown to date.  MITTS's dome looks like its been in the closet for 17 years. But unfortunately, MITTS or anyone else is not putting all their cards on the table, for free.
               NZ
 
                                                                               
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 22, 2010, 08:03:59 PM
  Guys:
   The MITTS's dome device is based mostly on John Keely's principals of harmonic and inharmonic frequency manipulation.
They explain that for only a split fraction of a second, the two unlike frequencies that are thrown at a device can cause the proton and the electron of the atomic structure to separate, and thus liberate energy that can be harvested in the form of usable DC electricity.
    I thought that I would pass that along, in an effort to remind us that even SM mentioned something similar,  but in his own way of putting it.
  So, perhaps keep the harmonic and inharmonic working principals in mind.  Although they are mostly refered to for musical purposes, there can be other forms that use that technology as shown by the Dome device, as well as other devices, that can utilize the same principles to create very powerful electric current,  with some mayor amps, to boot.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 22, 2010, 10:57:54 PM
Read this and you will know:
http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Laws-Never-Before-Revealed/dp/1572820039

2 good links:
http://www.svpvril.com/
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1270-dale-pond-basic-principles-svp-john-worrell-keely.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on June 23, 2010, 05:11:56 AM
    Here in Southern Florida it is 90degrees F at 9am.  Imagine taking a propane torch and raising a cubic mile from 89 degrees to 90 degrees.  Yet by 3 oclock 100,000 cubic miles will be heated 5degrees.  That includes all the water latent heat as it changed phase to steam.  Countless atoms are moving colliding accelerating deaccelerating.  Mostly because of infrared frequencies stimulating water.  I dont know how many joules equates into a BTU butwe got plenty of joules round here.  Just the vertical lift of a single cloud is an astounding display of power.  Think of taking a swimming pool and heating it enough to turn it into steam with an oil burner.  Steam that is of low enough density and high enough kinetic energy to go up a stack 5 or 6 hundered feet.  Lots of barrels of oils.  There are nightly lightning events.  My point is that direct thermal to electrical energy without reliance on chemical potential energy has got to be doable.  I really believe that when an atom is ionized the kinetic energy of that atom is transferred to the liberated electron.  As Chef clearly demonstrated ionized atoms and electron movement is controllable by use of an external magnetic field.  Electrons and ionized cores do not move the same way in the presence of a magnetic field.  Tesla would quench  spark gaps by use of magnetism.  If one does the math the binding energy of an electron in an outer valence shell of many elements can be far less than the kinetic energy of the bound electron depending on the temperature of the atom.  All that is needed to convert thermal energy into electrical energy is not the antiquated turbine or piston.  It is the radiation of an ionizing frequency upon matter in motion within the presence of a magnetic field.  The plasma electrons will act as a group or create a force as they will be moving in the same inertial frame.  This creates an electrical monopole of high density.  This moving polarized electrical field is a force field.  It will exert an electrical pressure upon whatever it encounters.    Capacitive coupling a target plate to an antennae that is either focused or coaxial with a receiver is the only way I know of to use electrostatic induction.   I am going to checkout electrostatic speakers more closely because I betya SM did.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on June 23, 2010, 01:25:52 PM
   Just want to add that the energy of the individual electrons is totally dependent on the wavefront of the transmission.
The intensity of the transmission will determine the total number of electrons or what plasma physicists call the heat of the plasma.  It is confusing that they use this term as it refers to the number of ionized atoms in a field compared to the total number of atoms present.  Not related to the kinetic energy of the individual electrons acting as a force.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on June 23, 2010, 04:25:56 PM
interesting

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 24, 2010, 07:54:31 AM
  Guys:
   When is a Joule Thief not a Joule Thief?
   Giant 15 pounder +,  that's when...
   http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments=1&v=ksy3TXfDFYo
   If anyone sees a follow up on this video, please post it.
    Thanks,
              NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 24, 2010, 07:58:55 PM
Ursa Major(20lbs) and Ursa Minor(6lbs) - 2007

Both iron pipe core.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on June 25, 2010, 12:53:23 PM
  I believe if you take a slow dc rise and fall and send it to two coils whose impedance is just a little different the resulting current downstream of the two coils will contain a very steep transient signal as the power is phase displaced.
SM referenced this phenomenon when he spoke of two vacuum tube cathode supply transformers presumably supplying two different vacuum tubes which were operating on a common anode bias.  Others who know alot more about electronics then me might help you out with this.  I do know Tesla used this to get his single phase motors to create a moving magnetic field.  One set of coils is across the line while the other set of coils has a capacitor in series with it.  The current flows at different times in the coils due to the different impedances and the magnetic field "moves" across the rotor conductors.  The rotor conductors acting as a transformer secondary generate a current that lags the pole shift and the rotor magnetic field is observed by the stator magnetic field and around and around she goes.
















Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 26, 2010, 02:37:35 AM
@sparks

Just wanted to say that your last few posts are real duzzies, especially the one about the oil spill. Bunch of bastards still can't figure out how to suck up that oil, they never will without a proper cover tank. If you ever speak to them, tell them to take a look at my tank design located here;
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Wattsups%27%20stuff/Gulf-Oil-Spill/OilSpillSolution2a.jpg
Bunch of pricks. Sorry but..........

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks a heep.

@Loner

I won't go into a long explanation. You have brought up some very good points to think about. Just keep on digging and let us know what you get, as we all.

Maybe there is one thing though that really stands out. Please stop denigrating yourself. It is unbecoming. Besides, I reserve that right for myself. lol. Just jok'in.

@all

Well I just got my JFETS. You can see the two on the left are the JFETs and then going right from these two is an IRF9540 and an IRF840. Hmmmmmm. I wonder if size does really matter. lololol

Also, I put up a photo of what I have found very convenient to hold my mosfets and Jfets. It is basically an angled three point terminal block that ends with three pins. On these pins I took a standard multi terminal block, cut them in ones and ground down the edges so they can fit on the blue pins. Connections are quick, easy and in case I blow a mosfet, changing is no hassle.

So I will now try out the blotch wall movement idea I had a few pages ago and report back with the results. Now these JFETs are very expensive and I am wondering if I should take up some JFET Insurance. lol

Hope @gyulasun gets back soon cause I will surely need some of his guidance. Meanwhile I will take things very slowly.

Happy Micheal Jackson Day to all. lol
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: darkspeed on June 26, 2010, 07:48:13 AM
You could also use these

MOLEX 10-18-2031

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Molex/10-18-2031/?qs=O8h8snhV7CofxxmQyCSnaw%3D%3D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on June 26, 2010, 07:55:46 AM
  I hate going to the pumps.  I have about had it with my rolling oil burner.  I'm gonna make myself an electric bike using a treadmill motor and a battery.  I figure the boss will let me charge up the bike as long as I put one of his stickers on the motor.  It's a 2o mile commute a day but I could use a little exercise charging the batteries up with some bio power.  Then when the crunch is on in the morning I can just jump on the bike and get my rear in gear to work.  Basically displacing the work to cooler and more comfy conditions than the road allows.  I am told I snore alot so I figure if I hookup a transducer to charge the electric bike Ill be good to go just by sleeping.   :)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on June 26, 2010, 07:07:06 PM
Hi Sparks,

You might like the open source solar vehicles on this site.
http://www.solarvehicles.org/

The designer, Jeff Dekzty, has great enthusiasm for his designs.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 26, 2010, 08:47:47 PM
@All

OK. One of the main criteria of the TPU is to run with gain. Now to run with gain, or gain with run, there must be a place in the TPU to run an event that can accumulate gain.

The electron potential to do this is already present in the copper conductors, capacitor plates, battery materials, inductor cores, spark ignitions, switches and more.

But in order to run with gain, any system has to know when it is overstepping its bounds in a way that could be adverse to the intention of the systems' gain requirement.

I have thought of an analogy to explain an angle of this gain question based on my experience in water treatment.

If you consider a tall tank (5 feet high by 10 inches in diameter) 1/4 full of sand with a water pipe entering from the center bottom and exiting the center top, and if you consider that if the water flow can hold the sand off the bottom, that is the equivalent to a TPU maintaining or holding up a gain state, then you need to find the right flow rate. Now if you provide a steady fast water flow rate, you will just punch a center hole through the sand and enter the top void but most of the sand will not lift. Provide a steady slow flow and the sand will just sit there. What you need to do is pulse it at a medium flow rate, but not all the time. You need to stop sometimes to let the sand turbulate back downwards then you start again. Slowly, but surely most of the sand will stay off the bottom. But again, you need a pulse, you need it to stop, then to start again. Any constant flow rate will not work. It has to fluctuate otherwise the sand will find the weakest areas to fall back to the base.

Another way of seeing this is when you use a pulsating garden sprinkler system. The main frequency is the steady water pressure applied to the sprinkler, and the chop frequency is the cutting on and off of the applied water pressure. This could be the cannon into cannon analogy.

This may be the requirement for the TPU also. If you pulse at 500,000 hertz and 5000 hertz so that at each 5khz "on" time of the cycle, it is pulsing at 500khz, this is what I mean. Not putting two frequencies together. But more like putting one frequency then chopping it up. The highest frequency will provide the resonance undertone (or overtone) and the chopping frequency will provide the proper nullification because from null to on you get the greatest potential rise, compared to when you remain on all the time.

In the LTPU there is only one potentiometer plainly visible. If the LTPU had a set high frequency pulse, then the pot could be used to regulate the chop frequency.

The question I have is how can this be achieved in circuit terms because I think this is where we can find both resonance and turbulence. You see when we pulse a coil, it creates a wave inside the coil wires. But like any other wave, some of that wave will move backwards once it reaches a resistance point. Our coils and circuits are full of these resistance points even thought we are not using specifically a resistor. So this waving around will move backwards and can then create bottlenecks in the flow of energy. By chopping up the main rider frequency, you are sort of resetting the potential for backward waves as well as for over saturation to clog up the conductor. Does this make any sense at all and if so, how can this be done in circuit terms. I don't want to have two frequencies. The highest frequency can be set and the lowest frequency can be 1/100th of the high frequency so with one main frequency, we need to make the second chop frequency, with a pot on the second to do some finer adjustments.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: BEP on June 26, 2010, 09:29:01 PM
@wattsup,

Just a friendly note:

You've posted some nice pics of your devices and mounting method. I hope these devices spend all of their time with the leads shorted using conductive foam or some other method. Static charge, far below what you can feel, will instantly destroy many devices, especially JFETs.

Do yourself a favor and cut a small piece of conductive foam for mounting on the leads until your circuit is ready for power.  ;)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on June 27, 2010, 04:19:09 AM
@Wattsup

   On an off topic comment your fluidized bed description of a conductor got me thinking about the gulf. If they could get a condom on that gulf mess and inject granular activated carbon to make like a mile long fluidized bed of gac alot of the oil could be adsorbed by the charcoal.   They then burn/reactivate the charcoal and reinject the gac into the plume riser.   The thermal energy of the reactivation used to do useful work like turning co2 and water back into sludge and pumped back into the ground where this gooey smelly sticky black shit belongs.  Dead and buried.  Make a new planet called shitball and fire it off towards the sun.  I dont care get it the fuck out of here.  There could be a competition among the energy titans to see how fast a planet could be produced.  You could form the planet into a ball and they could have a soccer game to see which company can get the most pollution burnt up in the chrona of the Sun.  The winner of the competition could be called king corporation and awarded a trophy including but not limited to a big gold bowl and any number of whoes for the executive officers of the corporation.  It would be organized so there is a shitball planet tournament.  Televised as high tech rockets push large black tar balls towards the sun.  Gaming rights could be controlled by the state and large auditoriums set up to watch the shitballs turn into flares 92million miles away.  Give all the corporate guys team uniforms and mascots.  Cheerleaders the whole nine yards.  You could have some microorganism name as the Teams tittles.  Like sprialcooccusnimbiusdoofus team pulls into the lead with 90million metric tons of pure black goo heading straight for solar maximus.  Following by a parsec is viralmenindirtyunderwear with 200 metric tons of sulpherdioxide as the two leaders enter the turn at mercury's gravitational well.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on June 28, 2010, 12:35:34 PM
...
Well I just got my JFETS. You can see the two on the left are the JFETs and then going right from these two is an IRF9540 and an IRF840. Hmmmmmm. I wonder if size does really matter. lololol

Also, I put up a photo of what I have found very convenient to hold my mosfets and Jfets. It is basically an angled three point terminal block that ends with three pins. On these pins I took a standard multi terminal block, cut them in ones and ground down the edges so they can fit on the blue pins. Connections are quick, easy and in case I blow a mosfet, changing is no hassle.

So I will now try out the blotch wall movement idea I had a few pages ago and report back with the results. Now these JFETs are very expensive and I am wondering if I should take up some JFET Insurance. lol

Hope @gyulasun gets back soon cause I will surely need some of his guidance. Meanwhile I will take things very slowly.
....

Hi wattsup,

You have a good mounting technic with the MOSFETs it seems, though the size of the heat sink may prove to be small in higher wattage cases when dissipation of the JFETs is over some ten Watts, watch out carefully for sensing heat on the body of the sink with your fingers and take time breaks in testing to allow for cooling down, maybe use a small computer ventillator.

Now heat hence overdissipation is you main enemy, not overvoltage or current. (I say this because you now have over 1000V breakdown voltage devices with over 20-30A current capability if I recall their data correctly.)
Always start with small voltage from your power supply, start with 5-6V DC and increase it gradually and check heat dissipation on the sink.
It is up to you using a single wire from the "positive" output from your FG or you use its "negative" wire too, connected with the negative polarity of the power supply. (Normal EE practice is connecting them.)

Good luck and if you have a question or two, please try to describe the setup you just use, preferably with a schematic if possible.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 28, 2010, 03:02:54 PM
@BEP

Thanks for the heads up. I am always touching the grounded chassis of my instruments to ground myself. But I will try and find some of that foam you talk about.

@sparks

I don't think they will go for it. But once we have perfected an anti-gravity shield, we can always scoop up the oil and send it to the sun ourselves. As long as we do not catch a whale while doing it, like in Star Trek. lol

@Loner

If Stan was doing it, then he's the Man.
I have all ready started testing this with two IRF840 mosfets.

@gyulasun

Thanks for checking up on me. I will keep you posted. I plan on starting to use them within a few days. I have some other tests to run with this other set-up and will start the blotch movement tests afterward.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 28, 2010, 05:21:57 PM
@Sparks,
Let the games begin.
I say 'begin' because know that it has already begun is depressing. I hate missing the boat only to fight out later the getting a clue has a cost of extreme measure.

--40 love.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 28, 2010, 05:23:40 PM
Heterodyning. Same as it ever was. The only difference is at what moment do you need the eclipse?

Wattsup, I hope you realize that is "Exactly" what Stan Meyers circuit for the HHO generating VIC circuit does.  Two Frequencies, one (The Higher) switched on and off by the lower.

Interesting, Isn't it?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 28, 2010, 09:35:54 PM
Sorry for  topic but if we would find the correct mosfet or other electronic switch then we  loose time for preparing for expected big solar storm in 2012. :(

It is important to find how to replace such electronic switch.
Rotary spark gap may be too slow.Can we make special vacuum or inert gas tube spark gap aka tube-mosfet ? If so then how ? Just two carbon or metal electrodes with ball ends all surrounded by metal sheet ? Maybe that was the case for Edwin gray switching element tube ? Can we scale up mosfet into such electrostatic grid switching element tube  PLEASE !? Any ideas ? :o Time's up.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 28, 2010, 10:05:51 PM
Final answer:
It is not that we want to turn on or off the coils to a level. This does nothing. It is the switching or transitioning between the levels. We have seen this process too numerous times to mention. Cmos does this incredibly fast albeit low power. But trigger a tank repeatedly and you get the virtual spark gap you all are looking for. All other attemps are just another doorbell circuit with inherent failures. The Cmos switching will also create the generation of electrostatic potentials. We don't apply HV, we create it. Stun gun anyone? This has been the attempt, the goal, the process all along by me. While building I have been lurking and accumulating the knowledge of the process. This is what it is. There are no other processes only other methods and we have seen them all. If you need to turn motors or see spark gaps then it is about time for you to take the next step and graduate from the mechanical processes to the high speed electrostatic. You can still hit a coil with a mechanical method but the speed of repeatability causes the final process. That is why the quenched spark gap looks so appealing for it is not the hit but to shorten the timing between the hits. Not bang, bang, bang but bing bing bing. And Baddaboom, thank you.
You want fireworks? Run a frequency in one coil and hit the parallel coil with a stun gun. You shake the shit out of the lower frequency. This rocks the domains out of whack only to have them return with a vengence. Can you say BEMF, magnetic bias, magnetic shear, Muller, Bedini? This is the process. It is in the videos. Mine and others. You wanted the secret? Well here you go... Ever wonder why capacitors can overcharge? They keep absorbing the high speed charges. That is why you see the slow speed dc create slow speed charging. I take the GK4 and put a diode / cap charging stage on it. The cap accepts the fast charge before it has a chance to fly off. Seems as though the faster the energy the more empty the cap is...

This is very simple to do. In fact so simple that you will harm your equipment and yourself before you figure it out. LOL.  ;D

Now go back and review what IST was spouting. He was and is correct all along.

When we mine for gold we don't take the dirt to market. We only take the nuggets.

Sorry for  topic but if we would find the correct mosfet or other electronic switch then we  loose time for preparing for expected big solar storm in 2012. :(

It is important to find how to replace such electronic switch.
Rotary spark gap may be too slow.Can we make special vacuum or inert gas tube spark gap aka tube-mosfet ? If so then how ? Just two carbon or metal electrodes with ball ends all surrounded by metal sheet ? Maybe that was the case for Edwin gray switching element tube ? Can we scale up mosfet into such electrostatic grid switching element tube  PLEASE !? Any ideas ? :o Time's up.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 29, 2010, 12:58:57 AM
giantkiller

I see it from other point of view, that's why I must rethink what you said.
I know that it's all about method of switching but currently the only switching devices I know are mosfets,vacuum tube,spark gaps,rotary spark gaps and a few others. All except spark gaps and maybe rotary spark gaps will be unusable after solar storm disaster (vacuum tubes will run only to the point of destruction, but could be possible to make them from scratch?)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on June 29, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
Solar storms, as far as I know, are detrimental to our circuits only if they are connected to the grid or if they are autonomously operated. I think our grid systems are all connected to an advance warning system comprised of several satellites that are between Earth and the Sun and this gives us something like 120 minutes to unplug our devices. People in planes over the ocean will be in dire straights if they cannot land quickly.

Now if that is not the case and our circuits start blowing from ambient overload even if they are totally unplugged, then circuits would be the least of our worries because we should be toast by then. Also, I don't believe in 2012 end of the world stories. 2012 will come and go.

Then the subject switching, well you could say it is like constructive bitching. You are continuously in an argument with the coils on how its best to drive them. But the coil wants more then a frequency. Guys are using very good frequency but you also need a good duty range and a voltage range to do any meaningful tests.

I have seen builds resonate at no frequency if the duty is not between 10-15%, while others worked only at 52%. One recently worked only at 61%. Imagine just for the frequency and duty, how many combinations you can have.

Now add in the voltage setting. I have seen builds work only at 4 volts input, at 4.5 onwards or 4.0 and below, nothing happens with either the duty or frequency settings. Voltage can either tickle, nourish or drown an effect. Knowing the three effects means you can use them to your advantage.

What this means is if all the guys doing tests could control these three parameters at all times to realize effects, you will be learning so much about all forms of coils, rings, toroids, transformers, inductors, capacitors, etc., all that harbor the electron potential.

If you are stuck at 50% duty circuits then there is a 99% chance that you are missing the boat even before you start. And that is such a damn shame cause we could be learning much faster globally with better tools.

I am thinking that eventually if some guys have the proper tools, then others that make builds but have limited means to test them can just send them to those that do have the tools. I can only imagine all the builds that are just lying around doing nothing because guys have tested their limited ways and deem the build as non-responsive when in actual fact, only 5% of the variables were tested. Anyways, maybe just another dream and I better wake up.

But you can make any coiling scheme, one coil or five (or more) different coils in series or in parallel or in a mix of both. There will always be a frequency/duty/voltage setting to make them all resonate together. That's the beauty of it all.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Gobaga on June 29, 2010, 03:26:36 PM
All should go back and read the last few posts of "Sparks" where he talks about electrons and energy.  He practically explains the entire process in a few choice words.

Solar flares are interesting for how they are produced and how they effect our devices.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: ElectricGoose on June 29, 2010, 03:41:46 PM
I'm with Wattsup on this one....any talk of 2012 is just plain mentally deficient.  2012 will come and go and then the next worrisome internet conspiracy will start up because some crazy Archaelogist told his nephew's cousin's best friend poodle who happens to twitter a lot that he dug up a rock that looks like the 5th coming of Hitler.  LOL....oh man...people are so weak minded it astounds me!  Not to mention that the information available on the internet (about even 'reliable' things) is so diluted and '1 million hand', you don't know where it started.  It could be a colossal joke.  I know when it comes to circuits and coils, I have come across sites that supposedly swear by the validity of the schematic.  Later, I have discovered it doesn't either work or something is at least half backwards and needs altering.  Yet people will believe 2012 and Aliens going through the rubbish bin (and I'm not talking Mexicans).
To all you 2012 believers out there...has it ever occurred to you that the guy who originally chiseled that Mayan calendar had to end it somewhere!!!?  What was he supposed to do, keep chiseling until the day he dies and then hand the chisel to his son and say "keep going boy, the future generations will worry if we stop it on 2012"?!!  ROFLMAO.

All too funny.

Regards
E-Goose
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 29, 2010, 05:17:25 PM
That patent 723188 (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat723188.pdf) clearly shows 2 coils tuned to 2 different frequencies driven by 1 rotor producing 2 spark gaps. The Door bell circuit is also in there.
Figure 5 shows 1 coil driven at each end with 2 frequencies.

Sm states: 'I turn on frequency 'one' then turn on frequency 'two'.'

There is a tube that produces immense RE created by a husband and wife team. Marco headed down this path. Correa tube. http://www.rexresearch.com/correa/correa.htm.
And I draw the readers attention to this paragraph:
1. Overview of Longitudinal Electrodynamic Interactions and Anomalous Cathode Reaction Forces in 20th Century Physics ~
Science fiction and conspiracy all wrapped into one. But this is real and written in history.
Quote
In the mid-eighties, Prof. P. Graneau and his group showed that electrodynamic explosions induced by kilovolt pulsed ion discharges in pure water were greater by three to four orders of magnitude than expected by established theory

--mentally deficient...


@Forthosewhochoosetomock,
Love thy neighbor as thyself. For when we open our mouths in contempt we spew what is inside.

Jesus stated: 'Cast not your pearls amongst swine' meaning
'The ignorant hold onto their ignorance as their greatest possession'.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 29, 2010, 06:36:27 PM
   ElectricGoose:
   Has it occurred to you that You might be wrong?
   People might just be letting You know something, so that You can prepare, while there's time.  IF that matters.
  Don't you feel it coming?  I Do.   Is it just my imagination... ?
  Then why is the megahertz frequency and magnetic balance of the planet changing? Why is there such massive studies being done concerning our Sun, now? Special satellites to watch the Sun, and other planets, all that money being spent, your money, during a broke economy, that is being kept alive,  artificially.
  The Mayans people had Star Charts with over 400 planets and star systems, they had no telescopes, nor needed any.  All BS?
  Of course, there are those that are using  the domesday call to their benefit, but,  don't be fooled by them.
  If you wait to see what happens, there may not even be candles left to light.   It's up to you, and everyone else,
 just letting you know,  that there may be more to it...
  I have spent half my life studying the on going and upcoming changes, and,  I do hope that You are Right, and Nothing happens, but I'm not counting on that... as I feel it in the air,  already.
              NickZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 29, 2010, 07:35:55 PM
NickZ

Good point.I also hope that nothing happen in 2012.The truth is there are just too many predictions to trrow away them:
- solar storms
- dark rift
- asteroids
- Nibiru
- precession cycle ends
- possible change of precession axis
- pole shift
- Nostradamus,Apocalypse and other  prophecies

Hmm... some of them are fake but all ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 29, 2010, 07:39:49 PM
When one gathers up all the nuggets it produces a golden idol.

Without courage, wisdom bears no fruit. Without wisdom, knowledge has no value. Without knowledge, the ignorant reign.

For the last 2 years I have been intently pondering the P2 patent and its implications. This patent embodies the effect that so many other attempts have strived to produce or show. My current coil is 3 layers on a stranded copper core. This configuration lends itself to the bifilar pancake model and its processes. My current configuration is pulsing this from the outside layer to the middle and then to the inside layer, wired around in series. Another configuration is pulsing only the outer and inside then stun gunning the middle layer. These two configurations use 1 frequency to start but I will add other frequencies on going in seperate layers.

Another way to look at the P2 patent is to see the pancake sitting between the highest and lowest potential then using an exciter in the middle somewhere(tuned) in that potential. The pancake becomes the transmitter and receiver. The pancake winding is actually a very long wire held in space but taking up very little space as possible.

@forest,
Pole shift. Alot of people don't like this. But I give you the strangest of strange: On Google earth go to Hawaii. Follow the chain of islands west to the oblique turn. How did that happen? Now follow that older leg up over the planet and you end up crossing right over Aubury / Stonehenge area. Now twist the planet so that the older leg of the Hawaiian chain becomes the new equator. Viola! Stonehenge now sweeps across the sky pointing directly at the Tropic of Cancer. Same a Giza and Chichen Itza does now.
We are but ants on a hill scurring about trying to get our precious cargo down the hole.

@all,
Quote
More recently still, G. Spence has patented an energy conversion system exploiting the electrodynamic mass ratio difference of electrons and ions in a magnetic separator and accelerator chamber having a basic analogy with Aspden's patent (24), but utilizing a different technique for the centripetal capture of the accelerated charge carriers, as based on a modification of the betatron principle that employs an homogeneous magnetic field (60). Spence's device, however, suffered from periodic breakdown, usually after several hours of operation, owing to problems believed to be connected with the thermionic ion-emitter guns (61).

During the same decade, investigation of externally pulsed electrodynamic anomalies in Russia was in full swing, with the objective of harnessing a new source of power (62) and, in 1989, the Novosti Press Agency released news of Prof. A. Chernetskii's design of a plasma reactor that operated with a "mysterious" regime which was termed by Chernetskii the "self-generating discharge", and which appeared to serve as a source of overunity energy, as it allegedly played havoc with the one megawatt substation driving it (63).


Wilhelm Reich mysteriously died in prison. Another dead scientist.
Quote
Reich was living in Germany when Adolf Hitler came to power in January 1933. On March 2, the Nazi newspaper Völkischer Beobachter published an attack on one of Reich's pamphlets, The Sexual Struggle of Youth.[5] He left immediately for Vienna, then Scandinavia, moving to the United States in 1939. In 1947, following a series of articles about orgone in The New Republic and Harper's,[6] the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) obtained an injunction against the interstate sale of orgone accumulators. Charged with contempt for violating it, Reich conducted his own defense, which involved sending the judge all his books to read and arguing that a court was no place to decide matters of science. He was sentenced to two years in prison, and in August 1956, several tons of his publications were burned by the FDA, arguably one of the worst examples of censorship in U.S. history.[2] He died in jail of heart failure just over a year later, days before he was due to apply for parole.[7]


@electricgoose,
Riddle me this:
In the Ball court at Chichen Itza contestants are to get the 11lb ball through a hoop 20 feet off the ground using only their hips and no other body parts. If this is futile then hows come the game lasted hundreds of years?
I portend it is antigravity.

nuff said?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: ElectricGoose on June 30, 2010, 03:00:45 AM
@electricgoose,
Riddle me this:
In the A court at Chichen Itza contestants are to get the 11lb A through a hoop 20 feet off the ground using only their hips and no other body parts. If this is futile then hows come the game lasted hundreds of years?
I portend it is antigravity.

nuff said?

GK

Greetings.  I have high regard for your head down/hard work attitude but I fear you have got me wrong on this one.  Whilst I will humbly stand corrected and acknowledge "one should not mock" for this is 'low brow' and very un-Christlike, I tend to be a straight shooter and don't mince words.  My intention was that folk should look at everything in balance rather than being swept up in the hype (internet or otherwise) because we as humans are one of the worst 'herd' creatures out there.
In reference to your other comments, I may be interpreting them wrong but are you under the assumption I don't believe in the TPU or antigravity/similar technology?  If so, I VERY much believe, therefore I am unsure what your last question to me was about.  Obviously the originator of 'the game' you mention knew the solution to it and just because it is not obvious to 99.9999% of the mortals on the planet does not mean one does not exist.  I am all too aware of this as my own experiments have shown.
I thank you for your calm approach and informative posts.

@NickZ
It's not that I don't believe in 'something coming' (Armageddon of sorts if you wish), because here again, I DO.  I just base my beliefe on a more scientific and methodical approach of intensive research rather than 'internet hype' based on one stone calendar which just so happens to end on 2012.  The Bible tells us at Ecclesiates 1:4 that "A generation is going and a generation is coming but the Earth is standing to times indefinite".  The Creator made this Universe and all in it as precise as a Swiss movement, with protections in place so that it will be here forever.  The only bag of nails in the cogwork is imperfect man who pollutes, war's and destroys all that is beautiful.  However, here again, God promises that this will be rectified and an 'End' to this System of things will come about in order to bring peace and harmony.
It was not my intention however to have a religious discussion, but merely clarify my earlier post.  Everyone has there own beliefs.

Peace to all.

Regards

E-Goose
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2010, 04:34:08 AM
@EG,
Seems to me that antigravity is the only answer. Anyone who has stood in the ballcourt has the same assumption. It is a preposterous game without AG. The glyphs even show players floating about.
I do agree about the sheeple.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=bea3cf7da028ed6cf25ab236fab79c59&topic=5793.msg130992#msg130992
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 30, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
If Earth rotation axis would change then Earth of course will be in place only some lands submerged and some emerge again (Atlantis).
Asfor TPU : there is Borderland video about longitudinal transmission. Bulb is lighted and aluminum foil attracte strongly to it.Bulb is transmitter and converter ,foil is receiver and displacement current generating around.Now it's needed to make a better transmitter without conversion to light and better receiver or a few in space around .
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on June 30, 2010, 01:41:17 PM
      @All:
       The thousands of the indigenous people that were living in the Mayan countries, are not found buried there.  So, where did they go?  And how?  Think about that one for a second.
    We are now seeing  some of the consecuences of the
 -9 Mayan Profecies-  as they have already started.
    Ultimately the purpose of the upcoming change is one of improvement, if we live to see it.  We are being flooded by  negative things like the 2012 movie etz... but we don't get the whole picture yet.   Things may get worse before they can get better.  But, they will get better,  that is the plan, and the point of it.  Not the end of the world,  but the end of TIME (zone), and the starting of a new one. Hopefully Free from the oppression that we have been having for thousands of years, as we have definately been manipulated.
It may also be time for us become part of the rest of the universe that we have been excluded from. Time will tell, but in the meantime, it would be still be good to have our own source of electric power.  If we just wait to see what happens, there may not even be candles left to light, but I'll bet that at that point, more than one true working invention will "just happen" to come our way.  I sure don't think much of the patent office, as it now is functioning.  When Teslas patents were given there was less BS than now.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 30, 2010, 05:02:02 PM
hmm...hot to tell this ? maybe using Don Smith words : "it is looking right at your face"
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on June 30, 2010, 05:21:22 PM
…The wire was then worked for about two hours without the usual batteries on the auroral current, working better than with the batteries connected. This is the first instance on record of more than a word or two having been transmitted with the auroral current…(Washington Daily National Intelligencer, Tuesday, September 6, 1859).

Is that really off topic ? Doubt so.

All device working almost in concordance with NATURAL LAWS will be still working while all electrical will be DEAD and could even  explode.Open path method is natural but yet we didn't learned how to make them fully without electrical olscillator running on "normal" current as a primer.That's I worry about to preserve.
When Sun align itself at the short "blade" of galactic black hole center inside a mess called dark rift I pressume it will shield Earth from that radiation and we will be safe but then pull action and releasing it will create big solar storm whcih induce large magnetic storms in our magnetosphere. This is "soft" guess.
If alignment would be against our Earth and sun couldn't be a shield then I can't imagine it.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2010, 05:47:43 PM
One could take all the effects of any physical concerns and put them in a thread called 'Eclipse event'.

My first vision was very interesting this morning. I have been pondering matter disassociation seems like forever since reading Dale Pond's book on Keely's Sypathetic vibrational physics. Then I realized a simple example: Effervesent denture cleansing. The process exersizes the minute molecular gap space between the 2 distinct materials i.e. the atomic denture material and the atomic foreign material. But the space is molecular. Wow. I never saw it this way before. There is no scrubbing going on.
This process takes advantage of sympathetic vibration. The molecular wavelength is longer than the atomic wavelength. The transmission of waves from the very small effervesence is like microwaves stressing the molecular bond of the gap thereby releasing the bond between the 2 materials. A stain is merely a minute particulate attachment.
Therefore when Keely disassociated gold from quartz in a matter of seconds portrays the simplicity of turning lead into gold or anything else. Makes the food replicator in Star Trek seem like child's play by focusing waves of differing potentials, angles, and frequency protocols from a database of parameters.

I always wake up on the wrong planet.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on July 01, 2010, 01:37:50 AM
  Gk and All:
   It would be good if the Keely group could make their Sphere spin forever, but with all there ingenuity they can't, or maybe it's more like that they won't.   
  Their  Sacred Science site:    http://www.svpvril.com/
                                  NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on July 01, 2010, 03:17:39 AM
      The magnetosphere shields us from coronal mass ejection or solar wind.  We appear to be in some magnetic field shift reversal whatever.  The shields are down and the Sun doesnt seem to care.  The grid transformer primaries are designed to be coils of high selfinduction.  This way the currents are minimized so as to enable a small current passing through many turns to convey power to secondaries with many amperes passing through relatively few turns.  If you have a magnetic amplifier your DC signal amplifies the AC bias by controlling the core magnetic permeation.  If every transformer core primary on the grid sees a saturated magnetic core due to a large DC current being generated by incoming moving charged mass they act as magnetic amplifiers and the impedance drops and the current flows.  Before this happens they will  pull the plug.  The only lights will be from the ionosphere with auroral events happening all over the place.  The magnetosphere could be in such a state of disarray that the cosmic mass make it all the way to the surface.  Talk about global warming. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 01, 2010, 05:11:46 AM
It is not supposed to spin on its own.
See the 3 little rocks under the horn outlet of the http://www.svpvril.com/Altea/Altea.html? That is the working end. The device is pointing down.
I refer to the 3 rocks as a clue to 'disassociation of matter'. You can see 2 handles, 1 on each side. The conical shaped supports are horns leading to the ring that has the strings attached.
The pipe organ sends focused frequencies down those horns onto the ring. The strings vibrate feeding the resonant sphere and sends waves out through the center of the ring to the target of choice. There are all kinds of frequencies happening here.

  Gk and All:
   It would be good if the Keely group could make their Sphere spin forever, but with all there ingenuity they can't, or maybe it's more like that they won't.   
  Their  Sacred Science site:    http://www.svpvril.com/
                                  NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on July 02, 2010, 01:57:01 AM
  Gk:
  Obviously,  you've read more about it.
But then what do they mean when they say?...
"Achiving Vibratory Rotation is our focus",
but we have not yet achieved continuous rotation.
  Is that like? It definitely spins, but does not spin indefinitely?  I admit that I'm confused!
  In anycase that sphere aparatus may have a whole different working principle than the MITTS dome, which hits closer to home with me, and we don't even know how that works yet , and they aren't telling. Unless you pay to play, or pray to play, boy,  I am confused.  Any ways, maybe those little rocks don't dissapear, but the person playing the horn does. Or is that what you meant by Target of choice?
                         NZ
 
                                                     
 
                     
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 03, 2010, 02:17:40 AM
The device is a pipe organ in sense. The sphere keeps the waves contained. The rocks are the target of choice.
The innards spin being played like a whistle tube like when one blows across the top of a bottle.

Keely grew up as a pipe organ air pumper. He recognized the importance of the crystaline body of the granite church building and its resonant qualities. Air can be stored and released variably like a water rocket uses water as the flow control.
http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/BottleRocket/about.htm

  Gk:
  Obviously,  you've read more about it.
But then what do they mean when they say?...
"Achiving Vibratory Rotation is our focus",
but we have not yet achieved continuous rotation.
  Is that like? It definitely spins, but does not spin indefinitely?  I admit that I'm confused!
  In anycase that sphere aparatus may have a whole different working principle than the MITTS dome, which hits closer to home with me, and we don't even know how that works yet , and they aren't telling. Unless you pay to play, or pray to play, boy,  I am confused.  Any ways, maybe those little rocks don't dissapear, but the person playing the horn does. Or is that what you meant by Target of choice?
                         NZ
 
                                                     
 
                   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on July 03, 2010, 03:44:22 AM
  Gk:
   So, the original purpose of the funded 6 million dollar project to develope the Keelly sphere, was to disassociate rocks? How bout that!
  So, They played the organ in the granite chuch, and then what happened?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 03, 2010, 05:51:57 AM
Keely did disassociate quartz to retrieve gold in the mined out mines in San Fransisco. It is in the book.

If you ever been in a large stone church or cathedral then you know the sound. That is where Keely got his inspiration. He also realized the heterodyned sounds spin.  When I was 12yrs old we kids would get tours in the old church that I was a member of. The organist mentioned that there were chords at certain volumes that were not permissible because of the harmonics. The church was granite. The pipes were mounted up in oak balconies and this building rocked. He played some of them at low volume and you could feel the slow rocking inside you.

If you read any Shaumberger then you know he too talks about vortexes.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 04, 2010, 08:09:53 PM
@all

I have been testing many variances of the ring and coil set-up while also investigating again the FTPU and OTPU videos. The rings on the FTPU contradict the ring of the OTPU. The FTPU has outer coils wound on rings. The OTPU has coils wound on one large bulkyg ring. It is obvious that the 4 OTPU coils are really not enough to impart any serious transfer to the large ring for the ring to be used in any way useful to the OTPU. But then why would the FTPU have coils wound over those wire rings while the OTPU is obviously not using the large ring for anything but having a structure to lean against. And then it hit me.

The FTPU rings are not being used either. They are just a medium onto which the outer coils are wound to stay in proximity to each other.

Then looking back at the OTPU rings, I can now confirm each of the four coils are dual wires of 7 turns, making 14 total turns that are visible per coil, but in reality they are 7x2. Man oh man. This makes so much more sense now. The double wires of 7 turns makes 28 turns total per wire. If I remove the outer rings from the FTPU equation, you can consider that like the OTPU the FTPU outer coils are two wires turning in proximity to each other and any impartation being perpendicular would hit the next coil turn.

When SM says the FTPU is basically "put together with bailing wire" it would seem that the bailing wire is used to provide a circular structure onto which the outer coils are wound in dual wires, or bifilar. If the outer coil was wound over a useful inner ring, there would be only one active continuous surface point between them. But if the outer coils are actually two coils wound one next to the other in bifilar, then this provides two active continuous surface points for mutual impartation.

Now let's say your main object is to pulse the center toroid. Pulsing directly onto the toroid is one obvious way, but if you are looking to generate a very erratic pulse, you send your pulse through the outer coils first, then into the toroid. The pulse enters the outer coils where each wire is wound from opposite directions going 360 degress around the inner bailing wire ring. So each part of one outer coil is next to each part of the other outer coil. Now when that pulse enters and turns around each outer coil, there will be an effect of mutual induction that will be imparted back and forth between the two coils and when the two coils exit and meet at the entrance of one half of the toroid, the pulse and its energy could be increased.

Now do the same thing with the bottom outer coils and enter from there to the other half of the toroid and you will have a very energetic pulsing method, much more intensive then if you were pulsing directly into the toroid itself.

Some will then indicate that we already get the coupling effect with outer coils and inner rings, etc., but this is only a normal result when finding the right resonance frequency for the total coil structure. But it does now provide the output results we are looking for. This is why there has to be another angle.

So now I have a new basis for some more tests. No more inner ring. Just bifilar outer coil, wound same way and/or wound in opposite directions will cover both possibilities for testing.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 04, 2010, 10:23:58 PM
@WU,
Put a picture or drawing in here?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 05, 2010, 02:15:33 PM
@GK

Here is a diagram of the general idea.

I don't want to go into too much details before I start doing some tests.

OK, one question. If you had a choice of ring material but did not intend to connect the ring to the TPU circuit, so no taking an output or even gate voltage,  what material would you choose. Maybe aluminum would be the best choice so it does not impart or pull away any of the outer coil mutual activity.

@All

- HELP NEEDED -

If we really really want to learn about the TPU demos, someone has to do some major homework. Just take a black background. Put a lamp with a 60 watts bulb 1-2 feet away from the black back ground. Take a photo from 4-5 feet away at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, up to 130 volts AC or as high as you can go, then do it again with DC using a rheostat and bridge rectifier. Always use the same distance and camera angle. Then put a 100 watts bulb and do it again, then take a 150 watts bulb and do it again. The amperage should also be recorded per picture. You don't have to do it all at once. BUT WE NEED A DEFINITIVE BULB BRIGHTNESS DATABASE. I don't have time to do it. The OPTU used 60 watts bulbs. Or make a video per bulb wattage and stop for 3 seconds at each voltage level showing the voltage and amperage readings. Either way, it has to be done with both AC and DC.

This is a major undertaking and whoever does this will provide a set basis for all videos and especially bring some irrefutable proof to what I have suspected since a few months regarding the SM TPU demos. Also it is best if it is not me that does this because some may question my impartiality because once this is done, some shit may hit the fan. You can't cheat the natural physics of the bulb. This way we will be able to compare the bulb brightness when SM connected the OTPU bulbs to the wall socket, then to the 92.1 vdc supply of the OTPU and compare. Also, when SM had the STPU bulb already plugged into the wall socket and then onto the STPU itself. Etc., etc.

Any taker(s), please confirm on this thread so others do not duplicate your work.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on July 05, 2010, 02:30:36 PM
wattsup, why ?

just close loop and power 60W bulb  ;D
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: FatBird on July 05, 2010, 03:16:51 PM
IMHO, I think your diagram is the closest thing I have seen to the real operation of the 17" TPU.

MOST (like GK) are deceived into thinking there are circular, concentric windings.  The close up photos prove otherwise.

The Big Question is what connects Point B to G, & what connects Point C to F?  I suspect Caps do.  Notice the 2 Big Yellow Caps SM used.

What is it called when a Coil is in series with a Cap?  The answer is a Series Resonant LC Circuit.  Hmmmmmmmm.
.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 05, 2010, 03:49:25 PM
@forest

Why what? Why a database? Well because we spend 90% of our time making devices that light up bulbs and we don't even have a referenced database of bulb wattage ratings being lit a various voltage/amperage levels.

We see hundreds of videos of so many guys but more often then not guys will not give out voltage and amperage readings. Case in point is the Tariel Kapanadze thread. Just try and look at a 150 watts bulb being lit. Just one bulb. Or the SM videos and I could go on and on. If you want to understand the electricity in the SM TPU, the only real expression of the TPU electricity is given in bulb brightness.

The bulb does not care about frequency or voltage. Whatever is applied, the bulb will break it down to its lowest common denominator and produce light at that level. That light should have a reference database so guys can compare apples to apples.

@Fatbird

That is the center toroid only.
Here is a main LTPU mapping diagram I did a long time ago.
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Steven%20Mark/wattsup-tpu/
Click on the SM17-WD-1.jpg link.
For the diagram legend, click on the SM17-WD-1.txt link.

The diagram does not include the outer coil windings for obvious reasons. It is only a diagram of what is visible.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on July 05, 2010, 07:05:00 PM
@GK

Here is a diagram of the general idea.

I don't want to go into too much details before I start doing some tests.

OK, one question. If you had a choice of ring material but did not intend to connect the ring to the TPU circuit, so no taking an output or even gate voltage,  what material would you choose. Maybe aluminum would be the best choice so it does not impart or pull away any of the outer coil mutual activity.

@All

- HELP NEEDED -

If we really really want to learn about the TPU demos, someone has to do some major homework. Just take a black background. Put a lamp with a 60 watts bulb 1-2 feet away from the black back ground. Take a photo from 4-5 feet away at 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, up to 130 volts AC or as high as you can go, then do it again with DC using a rheostat and bridge rectifier. Always use the same distance and camera angle. Then put a 100 watts bulb and do it again, then take a 150 watts bulb and do it again. The amperage should also be recorded per picture. You don't have to do it all at once. BUT WE NEED A DEFINITIVE BULB BRIGHTNESS DATABASE. I don't have time to do it. The OPTU used 60 watts bulbs. Or make a video per bulb wattage and stop for 3 seconds at each voltage level showing the voltage and amperage readings. Either way, it has to be done with both AC and DC.

This is a major undertaking and whoever does this will provide a set basis for all videos and especially bring some irrefutable proof to what I have suspected since a few months regarding the SM TPU demos. Also it is best if it is not me that does this because some may question my impartiality because once this is done, some shit may hit the fan. You can't cheat the natural physics of the bulb. This way we will be able to compare the bulb brightness when SM connected the OTPU bulbs to the wall socket, then to the 92.1 vdc supply of the OTPU and compare. Also, when SM had the STPU bulb already plugged into the wall socket and then onto the STPU itself. Etc., etc.

Any taker(s), please confirm on this thread so others do not duplicate your work.

Regarding bulb brightness I agree there is way too much 'oooh ooh it lights the bulb! and it's bright!'  that goes on :D   I think the easy way to get better data on this is not so difficult.  For around $15 to $20 you can get a nice digital Lux meter on eBay (including shipping).  Standard is usually to measure light intensity in Lux at 1 meter distance.  What looked the same to your eye in the past will be clearly shown as different on the Lux meter if there is any difference at all.  Having used such a meter in testing high power LED flashlights it is very surprising at times what the numbers show.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 06, 2010, 07:01:56 AM
Guess i am deceived.

The center toroid thingy windings look very similar to the big windings on the open tpu.

The original SM17 was horseshoe shaped. Don't bother looking because that video is gone.

There are many winding configuration that SM showed.

My GK4 and 3 other type configurations are wound in segments, bifilar in pairs or triplets or in concentric layers, full wraps and segments Just Telsa's patents showed.

I guess the pancake coil is in segments too?

There are many configurations but only one process.

OR was this a test?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 06, 2010, 08:28:37 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

no ALUMINIUM!

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2010, 02:20:44 AM
@All

Hello everyone. During the last few days I have been doing some new testing in various configurations I mentioned previously. There are some very very interesting effects to discuss in the coming days.

Now there is one thing though that has been bugging me for days now, and that is the question of the light bulb intensities in SM's OPTU video.

So I decided to put current tests aside to test something very simple but will need help to set-up the proper circuit to test SM's famous 91.2 volts DC power output on those two bulbs and see exactly how bright a bulb should look with that much energy.

I know that when you have a DC voltage output, that the AC equivalent is always lower but I don't know what the formula is. You see, when SM plugged his bulbs into the wall socket to show them lighting off the house mains, he was getting 110-120 volts AC on those bulbs and the bulbs are supposed to light up to their maximum ability based on that mains power input. He then plugged them onto the OTPU that supplies 91.2 volts DC. So here are some of my questions

1) What does 91.2 volts DC equal in AC terms.

2) If the answer to #1 is less AC then what is available from the mains supply, should the bulb light up less or more then when it was plugged into the mains supply versus when it was plugged onto the OTPU.

3) When the second  bulb was connected to the OTPU the voltage reading of 91.2 vdc did not even budge by a 0.01 vdc. As if the OTPU was impervious (or invisible) to the applied load. Is this normal?

What I would like to do is plug a 60 watts bulb into the mains supply and take a picture. Then set-up a circuit that will provide either 91.2 vdc or the AC equivalent then plug a bulb and take another picture. Then I will compare these two pictures with image grabs I have of the OTPU bulbs that I have included below.

So my next question is what is the best way to set this up. I have AC transformers, bridge rectifiers and the like, but would need a circuit diagram from anyone in the know to show if I need any caps or resistors, etc.

The image titles explain when the image was grabbed. Just in these images there is a great inconsistency with what we expect in reality. I'll have to post more posts because the "more attachments" feature does not work and I have several images to post.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2010, 02:21:47 AM
More....
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2010, 02:22:39 AM
More....
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2010, 02:23:43 AM
And last but not least..........
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 16, 2010, 06:09:38 AM
A good rule of thumb is r.m.s.(root, mean, square) of 63% of the A.C. peak to peak to get the rippled D.C.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: MrMag on July 16, 2010, 10:38:15 AM
A good rule of thumb is r.m.s.(root, mean, square) of 63% of the A.C. peak to peak to get the rippled D.C.

RMS voltage is .707 of the peak to peak voltage. Also, the power coming into your house is the already measured as RMS voltage. This is the reason that when you rectify it, the DC voltage is higher.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: teslaalset on July 16, 2010, 01:59:09 PM
I know that when you have a DC voltage output, that the AC equivalent is always lower but I don't know what the formula is. You see, when SM plugged his bulbs into the wall socket to show them lighting off the house mains, he was getting 110-120 volts AC on those bulbs and the bulbs are supposed to light up to their maximum ability based on that mains power input. He then plugged them onto the OTPU that supplies 91.2 volts DC. So here are some of my questions

1) What does 91.2 volts DC equal in AC terms.

120 Volt mains means 120 V RMS.
So with a sinus shape voltage in mind, 120 V can be compared with 91.2 DC directly, so 91.2/120v equals 83.4 %.

2) If the answer to #1 is less AC then what is available from the mains supply, should the bulb light up less or more then when it was plugged into the mains supply versus when it was plugged onto the OTPU.


Answer is obviously: less when plugged into the TPU compared to mains (see the percentage above)

3) When the second  bulb was connected to the OTPU the voltage reading of 91.2 vdc did not even budge by a 0.01 vdc. As if the OTPU was impervious (or invisible) to the applied load. Is this normal?

If the internal resistance of the power source is very low, this is normal.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 16, 2010, 02:23:29 PM
Thanks guys.

So if I understand this correctly from both your posts, @GK says the DC voltage produced is 63% of the RMS AC available from the wall outlet and @MK says the 110-120 VAC in the home is already in RMS.

So relating this to the OTPU output of 91.2 VDC, this would equate to (91.2 x 0.63) = 57.456 VAC being applied to the bulbs by the OTPU. Is this correct?

And, if this is correct, can you then go back and look at the bulbs being lit by the OTPU compared to the bulbs being lit off the mains and say that the bulb brightness is consistent or not consistent with this reality.

Then explain how the voltage on the OTPU did not even budge by 0.01 volts when the first then the second bulb was connected. So how is this possible that the bulbs are brighter (in my opinion) or at best just as bright.

I am doing this exposure in small steps because I realize the ramifications are rather dumbfounding. I am just letting the facts speak for themselves, as we all should, when doing SM TPU demo investigations. When I do the final bulb comparison pictures, this reality will hopefully be more evident.

@teslaalset

Thanks for your reply. I am not sure about your answers for #1 but I think @GK answered it already. I agree also for #2. Then for #3 I am very perplexed and guys doing TPU experiments know already what it means to not even have a 0.01 volts fluctuation when connecting a first then a second bulb.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: teslaalset on July 16, 2010, 02:27:55 PM
A good rule of thumb is r.m.s.(root, mean, square) of 63% of the A.C. peak to peak to get the rippled D.C.

@GK
Our replies just crossed each other.

My understanding:
120 V mains means 170V peak voltage (have a look at an oscilloscope picture of the mains voltage)
This means 120 V mains AC can be directly compared with 120V DC
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on July 16, 2010, 03:26:20 PM
@MrMag

you wrote:

"RMS voltage is .707 of the peak to peak voltage."

Sorry, this is not so.  The correct answer is RMS voltage is .707 of the peak voltage (not peak to peak, only peak). I agree with the rest you wrote.

The same mistake is from GK: he also wrote one 'peak' more, so his answer correctly is:
"A good rule of thumb is r.m.s. of 63% of the AC peak to get the rippled DC."

I can fully accept what teslaalset wrote. 120V AC mains voltage is meant its RMS value and this gives an equivalent 120V DC voltage.
The 91.2V DC voltage measured at the output should give less brightness from a bulb when compared to the 120V AC brightness,  83.4% if you take the 120V AC brightness to be 100%.

rgds,  Gyula

PS: here is a link on comparing RMS, peak, peak to peak and average values, go down nearly to bottom:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/3.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on July 16, 2010, 06:22:23 PM
For what it's worth I used to have some small washer like stick on diodes made for putting on light bulbs (the base of the bulb so it would fit between the center contact on the bulb and the one in the socket).  They ran the regular tungsten bulbs at a light level that was probably 60-80% of the brightness they had on AC.  These were single diodes. 
  wattsup,  it sounds like you are having some interesting results.  I look forward to hearing more!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on July 16, 2010, 08:24:15 PM
....
I know that when you have a DC voltage output, that the AC equivalent is always lower but I don't know what the formula is.

You see, when SM plugged his bulbs into the wall socket to show them lighting off the house mains, he was getting 110-120 volts AC on those bulbs and the bulbs are supposed to light up to their maximum ability based on that mains power input. He then plugged them onto the OTPU that supplies 91.2 volts DC. So here are some of my questions

1) What does 91.2 volts DC equal in AC terms.

2) If the answer to #1 is less AC then what is available from the mains supply, should the bulb light up less or more then when it was plugged into the mains supply versus when it was plugged onto the OTPU.

3) When the second  bulb was connected to the OTPU the voltage reading of 91.2 vdc did not even budge by a 0.01 vdc. As if the OTPU was impervious (or invisible) to the applied load. Is this normal?

What I would like to do is plug a 60 watts bulb into the mains supply and take a picture. Then set-up a circuit that will provide either 91.2 vdc or the AC equivalent then plug a bulb and take another picture. Then I will compare these two pictures with image grabs I have of the OTPU bulbs that I have included below.

So my next question is what is the best way to set this up. I have AC transformers, bridge rectifiers and the like, but would need a circuit diagram from anyone in the know to show if I need any caps or resistors, etc.
...

Hi wattsup,

The answer for your puzzle in bold above is the peak value of the AC voltage, if you rectify 120V AC with a diode bridge and use a puffer capacitor at the bridge output, then the unloaded DC voltage output is 120V*1.41=169.2V so if you would use only 85.1V AC input to the diode bridge (either from a transformer or from a Variac) then you would get 120V DC voltage across the puffer capacitor in the unloaded case.  (I did not consider the bridge diodes forward voltage drops (minimum 2*.7V=1.4V in case of Si diodes).  And when you introduce any load across the puffer cap, the losses appear right on, AC voltage drop due to the transformer or Variac copper resistances and some forward DC voltage increase across the diodes, the heavier the load, the bigger these losses become of course, so that you have to turn up the Vriac with a few volts more above 85V to get an exact 120V DC output across the load (like a bulb).

I found a schematic on this at random on the web so that no need for drawing: http://www.arabteam2000-forum.com/uploads/monthly_08_2009/post-132119-1250699337.gif

The AC generator symbol can represent either a Variac or a 1:1 mains transformer, both would be the best. The Variac could connect directly to the 120V mains voltage of the wall, the Variac output could be connected to the primary coil of a 1:1 mains transformer and the diode bridge could be connected to the secondary output coil of the transformer.
For the puffer capacitor, you could use as much cap values as you may have at hand, the working voltage rating of the cap should be a minimum of 200V to handle the peak 161V or so and try to use at least a 330 or 470uF electrolytic or even more if you happen to have more to connect them in parallel. This way the ripple voltage can be kept at a minimum and your DC voltage will be 'cleaner' when the 60W bulb shines from the 120V DC output.

A notice on your question 3:  indeed a bit strange the output voltage did not drop down to say 91.1 from the 91.2V: it all depends on the THICKNESS of the output coil wire SM used, if it was a high enough gauge so that the copper resistance was in the milliOhm range, then the voltage drop could have only be measured by 4 or 5 digit DMM resolution, so it could be normal what SM showed with the 3 digit DMM.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 16, 2010, 09:15:14 PM
'Pressing one wrong button can precipitate our end'. LOL
Thanks and sorry. The fingers fly faster than the mind sometimes.

@MrMag

you wrote:

"RMS voltage is .707 of the peak to peak voltage."

Sorry, this is not so.  The correct answer is RMS voltage is .707 of the peak voltage (not peak to peak, only peak). I agree with the rest you wrote.

The same mistake is from GK: he also wrote one 'peak' more, so his answer correctly is:
"A good rule of thumb is r.m.s. of 63% of the AC peak to get the rippled DC."

I can fully accept what teslaalset wrote. 120V AC mains voltage is meant its RMS value and this gives an equivalent 120V DC voltage.
The 91.2V DC voltage measured at the output should give less brightness from a bulb when compared to the 120V AC brightness,  83.4% if you take the 120V AC brightness to be 100%.

rgds,  Gyula

PS: here is a link on comparing RMS, peak, peak to peak and average values, go down nearly to bottom:
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/3.html
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on July 16, 2010, 10:08:07 PM
Hi Loner,

Well, the regulated output may make sense and can explain why the output did not drop for an additional load, besides my heavy wire hint above. Elsewhere in the forum member 'bolt' mentioned magnetic amplifier in connection with tpu if I am not mistaken and such circuit can easily include feedback/control means IF this is the case indeed.

The filament in a bulb can indeed be considered as a coil and although I have never measured any bulb's self inductance yet, I estimate it has quite a low value, from some hundred nanoHenry to a few microHenry maximum, depending on the make and the power rate of the bulb.  So at 50-60Hz it is negligible and with increasing frequency it surely increases its inductive reactance, though at 5kHz it may still be relatively low: if it has ,say, 3uH filament inductance together with the inner wire connections, the inductive reactance 2Pi*5000*.000003= .094 Ohm and would have 1.8 Ohm at 100kHz, this latter could already modify results.

So these are valid details and it is good we speak and consider them, to ease confusion;  (maybe you could tune the inductive reactance out with a similar reactance value capacitor if your frequency is steadily as high as 100kHz).

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on July 17, 2010, 01:37:07 PM
Hi Loner,

I agree the resistance change of a bulb is nonlinear, so it is very easy to get fooled by them. I think it is best to use high power non-inductive resistors instead, unless you have a 'calibrated' eye for comparing brightnesses between two similar bulbs, one of them is run from a known input power, the other one is run from the device to be measured (or you use a dependable lux meter to compare).

Non inductive power resistors are available from several sources, here is one searched at random:
http://www.alliedelec.com/resistors/passive-components/?N=4294790368+4294818356

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on July 18, 2010, 10:03:42 PM
   Guys:
    In case you haven't seen the prototype that Itseung has come up with, check the 6 inch toroid JT with a secondary that he is using for tests.  It goes along with the same idea I had of using a working unit to as a model to experiment and build on.
                                                                            NZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on July 27, 2010, 10:31:51 AM
The real thing is.....

Tuned

amplify V.

charge caps

then discharge sequentially.

note: we only need volts to energize a caps  ;)
 ;D

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on July 27, 2010, 01:09:52 PM

note: we only need volts to energize a caps  ;)
 ;D

Hi Tito,

Unfortunately, to charge up a cap, you do need current too.

Please study this link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capchg.html

I wonder what is your OU device COP number is? Have you estimated it?
COP=output/input

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 30, 2010, 02:22:35 AM
@all (This will be a long post)

I took a little more time to get this post as complete as possible, with hopes that it will put us all back on a realistic TPU track without taking away any of the real accomplishments of SMs OTPU device.

I put up a video of the bulb brightness versus applied DC voltage using two 60 watts bulbs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3uICYap92g
I will do another one using a 100 watts bulb because SMs other videos use that bulb format. (apparently but...)

Since the only real reference of any energy production in the SM TPUs has to be extrapolated from the brightness of the bulbs versus the shown voltage readings, I really needed to do this as a point of reference.

In my above video, when you look at a 60 watts bulb driven at 120VAC and another bulb driven at 91.2VDC, there is a definitive difference in brightness. If you look at the bulb at 91.2 VDC in real life, it has a definite yellowing whereas in the video you cannot see this yellowing, but, you can see the bulb brightness is lower and the peripheral reflections are less bright as well.

So, of course it is very difficult to make any 100% conclusion from his videos simply because any video of a bulb will never equal what you actually see in real life. But given that in the OTPU video SM plugged his bulbs into the wall socket before he plugged them onto the OTPU, this does give us some video basis of comparison to my video results. This mixed with the endless hours of studying the videos and the mannerisms in order to find flaws in the procedural logic and considering the dynamics of those times regarding discovery, business, government and MIB stories, I think the following is as close as anyone will get to the actual facts, otherwise it would have to come from SMs own future admissions, but don't wait for the last one.

So....... based again on this information, at the risk of sounding repetitive, given that from what I can see on the OTPU video as per the image grabs that were provided in previous posts, it would seem very definite that the brightness of the bulbs off the wall socket and off the OTPU are one and the same.

Now, this does not concord with the obvious expected differences given the different voltages applied, so, in actuality, they were the same brightness and hence the energy came from the same source that could only be from batteries hidden inside the lamp bases, or, a battery/inverter/loop-back system again inside the lamps.

Also, possible is that the OTPU itself then takes that lamp based battery power (hence hot coils) and pulses it so the bulbs stay bright but the battery juice depletion is the least possible. This extends the battery life to limits above standard battery technology. Like he said. Hmmmmm. He did mention the word battery many times. But there is more to consider here.

Our collective responsibility regarding SMs TPUs is to wean out as much observational information as possible and the bulbs just don't lie.

So in general, what I am beginning to concretely understand from the OTPU is that SM produced a higher voltage output (91.2) then he made for the FTPU (62 vdc), but this again is only voltage, like he only showed in the FTPU video. The OTPU only produced voltage and so when he put his meter on the OTPU speaker terminal outputs without the bulbs connected, he showed a reading of 91.2 VDC. This gives you the false impression that the bulbs are being run by the OTPU.

SM reinforces this impression or illusion by first plugging his bulbs into the wall socket. Funny though he did not leave both of bulbs lit off the wall plugs. That is because the top plug was still connected to the mains and he only shorted the bottom wall plug. He plugged the first bulb on the bottom wall plug, then he almost plugged the second bulb on the top wall plug but stopped dead in his tracks, removed the bottom one (throwing it aside) and plugged the second bulb again into the bottom socket. This manouevre in itself betrays his demo outright. He connected both of them on the OTPU plug box but did not do it from the wall plugs. Why??????????? Also, the way he manipulated the lamp cords was indicative of someone knowing those lamp cord plugs were live and if he touched the plug pins, he could get a shock. So he needed a shorted plug to do his demo because the lamps had batteries in them and by shorting the bottom plug, this connected the batteries and bulb internally and gave the plug realism when he pulled on the cord and the bulb went dead. Almost perfect but not quite enough.

(Trivia) In the 6TPU video, this time SM put a small night light in the top wall plug to not make the same mistake again. But that was for another reason. lol

Next he connected them one after the other onto his blue plug box that was connected to the OTPU. This time both lamps were plugged onto the plug box. Now in this case, I do not think the plug box was shorted. The short was right at the OTPU output that also looped through the outer rings. That's one reason the outer coils started getting hot. The bulb output of the OTPU is curiously not located at the same location as the output going to his volt meter. Why go through all the pains of having two dedicated outputs as per his speaker terminals and another output going to the plug box. Because both lines were not connected together at all. He could have easily put the meter onto the plug box to measure his output voltage but he did not. Then after the video he made a shorter video and this time he plugged the bulbs directly onto the OTPU output that went to the plug box, but this time without the plug box, saying "some may think the plug box is tricked", but this was a diversionary tactic on his part trying to pull your focus onto the plug box and away from the fact that his OTPU output was simply a short circuit for the lamp base hidden battery pack that lit the bulbs. Again I know this sounds repetitive but the angle has to be seen from many sides.

Now, some may say this is total blasphemy. But this is not total blasphemy, it is total reality. The reality is that because of the OTPU limitations, SM had to orchestrate his demo in this manner since it fits perfectly with the fact that the OTPU produced voltage but never produced enough amperage to light them bulbs. So SM had to find another way of letting you believe  the OTPU could produce sufficient output to light two bulbs, without the OTPU even varying in output voltage by 0.01 volts. Not even a flicker. If you took 10 fully charged car batteries in series and plugged one bulb onto them, you would see a voltage variation, then plug another bulb in parallel to the first and you will again see another voltage variation. Why would it not do it with the OTPU. Not even a miniscule variation. Some say it is a question of resistance. Sorry but resistance or not, you still have to have 60 watts then 120 watts of power available at the output but the real output would have had to be much higher then that for the voltage to not move. The only plausible answer is the bulbs were not connected to the OTPU output that was feeding the volt meter. The volt meter never saw the bulbs.

So here is my "official" observation of the OTPU.

SM first built the FTPU but it could not produce amperage. That is understandable given the limited amount of wire in the device and this concords very well with my own tests of FTPU mock-ups. So SM made a video and only showed voltage. This got some investors interested enough to put up some cash for a piece of the future action. But then, since SM was now in the company of investors, he was no longer a free researcher, but was continuously under the scope of others that had obvious expectations. SM knew this and came up with the OTPU video. Even though the video was 50% faked, that 50% was very difficult to prove. Any time someone wanted to check the OTPU all he had to do is put a volt meter on it and show it produced 91.2 vdc. If anyone asked him to plug a bulb on it, he would have simply made some type of excuse and the voltage reading would have been all the person would get. His biggest excuse was the 20 minutes life span due to heating. This gave him total latitude in how he could make more excuses for any operational limitations and one more reason to keep up the research and the required dollars.

(Trivia) The OTPU was the only device where SM kept the volt meter on while he applied a load. All other videos had the meter removed before applying a load. This change in modus-operandi is understandable because now SM was using light bulbs on small stands (except the 6TPU where the lamp was tall but thin (could still harbor batteries to assist the 6TPUs output) and this time the lower wall plug was not shorted but supplied a dc power source. But here we are getting ahead of ourselves so back to the OTPU.

My reasons for looking into this question are not to find SM as a downright fraud. I already went through that stage. It is only to put the reality into the devices. If I want to build an OTPU, why should mine have to really light up two bulbs when his was obviously using many batteries. Why should we keep the OTPU design as a solid reference for lighting up bulbs when his did not do it in reality but only after using outside means. Why should we spend another one or more years breaking our heads on such a design when it never did what he purported.

Here is a list of reasons why the OTPU cannot be deemed an authentic and irrevocable portrayal of its real power output.

1) SM could have used standard bulb sockets but decided to use lamps with bulky bases. You can see it in the way he moves them, the amount of stress on his fingers, the sway of the lamp all speaks heavy battery pack.
2) SM consciously always plugged the bulbs into the same lower wall socket.
3) SM connected his volt meter onto a specially located round speaker terminal when all he had to do is connect it just like he connected the FTPU, right at the output wires.
4) When SM plugged the first and second bulbs to the OTPU, the voltage on the OTPU connected volt meter never budged as if the meter was on a totally separate and/or isolated circuit from the bulbs.
5) The brightness of the bulbs off the wall socket and off the OTPU are the same.
6) The OTPU build included scrawny outer coils that are obviously not enough to produce the amperage and wattage required to light those bulbs, but enough to produce a 91.2 vdc at microamp output as reactive energy that could not do anything more then make those bulbs flicker at best.
7) SM then made a shorter OTPU video removing the plug box, knowing perfectly well that his short circuit was at the OTPU output.

From all the above and many more hours and hours of video observations, one can clearly understand a given time-line in the progression and maturation of his TPU designs. When he made the FTPU, he may have managed to produce a device that could provide 62 vdc on a volt meter but since it was a reactive power output, it could not handle any real loads. This would explain why he never put a light bulb on the device. This may sound mundane for many of us doing OU research since we have all produced devices that can do the same thing. But what I think is special in SMs case is that he did this with either no battery power or more likely using a small battery as a seed. So the actual FTPU accomplishment at best was producing a reactive output with no energy input. The 60 volts reactive power was maybe enough to light an LED to mid brightness but even then, this would have been a considerable achievement for any man to grasp. His volt meter did not know 91.2 vdc had or had not any amperage. But it sure looks impressive. This is basically all we should be shooting for. Light an LED with no input power. That would be step #1 towards the TPU reality, because then you stack them by threes to tens.

Now just the FTPU demo alone is a major coup and I am sure SM realized that from this first device, working without any battery input, he could attract some serious investors that would understand the devices potential. But once he had investors, the game changed, money was flowing but expectations grew proportionally to the amount of dollars invested. SM was under pressure to show something more substantive and his second video being the OTPU was the result of SM using his knowledge of producing reactive power from zero input, but he had to show some bulb lighting otherwise his investors would have either pulled the plug or thereafter been much more inquisitive of the real accomplishment. I do not think his investors ever really knew what the TPUs true accomplishment was or what was its limitations. The investors had engineers that see a video and say "in order to light them bulbs, you need amperage and voltage" and "he's got them both". Man oh man.

So now SM makes the OTPU video, knowing full well that the OTPU could only produce reactive power. OK, I am calling it reactive just to honor The Buzz. Just for the record, in the OTPU demo as well as all the other demos SM could have used standard 120vac bulbs or he could have used tricked 12-24VDC bulbs with 120VAC printed on them. I would have to do another test with DC bulbs but in the next TPUs, it would have been more logical for him to trick the demo with DC bulbs.

Again, at best the OTPU was producing this reactive output from zero volts input, to be able to produce 91.2vdc output as reactive or not, is a grand accomplishment and I do not want to take this away from SM one bit. But at this stage, SM could not openly explain the OTPU limitations even if the basic crux of the device was grand in itself, SM had to show the lights. This is why he decided to use bulky lamps with batteries, a shorted lower wall plug, two power outputs on the OTPU, one showing the reactive power on the volt meter and we thinking the second output that he plugged to the plug box had the same power and lit them bulbs. But they did not and that was the game. Show the device not connected to the bulbs and making 91.2 vdc, then plug the bulbs and you will automatically equate that the OTPU lit the bulbs. Smart, smart, very smart and smart again. But the bulbs do not lie.

I can accept all of this because it meant he then came up with the STPU. This is where the multiple wires and magnet analogy comes in. The paralleling of the real "useful" parts of the OTPU/FTPU design. Paralleling because the only immediate answer for SM would have been to make ten FTPUs in parallel driven the same single way. Whatever, it had to be paralleling as this would increase the amperage and maintained the same voltage. Also, if pulsing at high enough frequency, this will permeate the parallels with very little loss.

This shows how SM grew with his designs. The reason we need to just accept the fact that SM had to use some ruse in all his videos and part of that ruse was the two way flip in the OTPU. The STPU had some also but I can't talk yet cause I need to do a video of bulb brightness with 100 watt bulbs. Suffice to say that again, small design but the voltage reading and bulb brightness do not concord. SM is trying to make us think we are looking at 120vac reference, when it is not. Why did he "need" to show a bulb. Well.........this would increase commercial value by multiples, to show our every day light bulb being lit. The brighter he could make the bulbs in the video, the more dollars it could bring in. In a way, it's sad to have to live under such conditions. But, the STPU end of the design is brilliant just to make the output that is now less reactive given paralleling of the design into a compact toroid form.

So then you would ask, why make the STPU lighting one bulb when you already had the OTPU lighting two bulbs. And again, the answer has to be, because the OTPU was only 1/3rd real. The STPU was 2/3rds. The 6TPU was also 2/3rds real. The MTPU does not count for anything. And the LTPU was again 2/3rds real. I will have to get into the other devices in time but from where I stand today, I can now in clear conscience confirm that SM faked his videos not to fake his discovery, but to enhance it. His discovery was shown in the voltage readings but never shown in the bulbs lighting. Talk about hiding the discovery, how better can you do that?

I think what the final result on what I am trying to say here is simply this. SM was in the same damn boat we are in right now. We can make reactive power any day of the week (I recently made 800 vdc) and this is what the OTPU really showed. If we can make an abstraction between what SM intended as trickery with his OTPU demo and the real powers involved, this gives all of us a real basis to then consider the other TPUs in a more realistic light (pun intended).

You see, I don't think SM was so stupid to have faked his videos for reasons of greed per say. He did discover something that was evident in the FTPU. That small effect was in that device to start. But again, even thought that effect was tremendous in its own right, he had to start making embellishments and because of this, he started to become more and more of an expert at the art of deception then on the real discovered effect. Also, all these tactics he used in his videos was perfect for him and his main reasoning would be, the more I cover up the design and workings, the safer my discovery will be well hidden within all these actions. This puts some sanity in the madness.

When you go to see David Copperfield do one of his amazing illusions, you know you will see an illusion. You expect you will see an illusion and yet, right when the final act takes place, you are still in amazement at the grandeur of the moment. Yet you know deep inside that it is faked, tricked, manipulated, but regardless, you are amazed because you don't know how he did it. This is part of what we have been witnessing from SM videos. If David Copperfield made a TPU video, you will expect and look for the trickery. But since this is SM doing it, the inventor of this grand TPU, we let down our guard and let SM permeate to the ultimate level of believability. And this has cost us dearly because all we are really left with is this feeling that we have just witnessed the salvation of the world that is one grasping effort away from becoming a reality. But unfortunately, I can now explain the function/trickery of all of SMs designs, even the LTPU.

Just think of this on the LTPU. 800vdc, ??? amps, 10 x 100 watts bulbs = leaves how many watts to drive each bulb???. Then look at a 100 watts bulb driven at that voltage/amperage/wattage and tell me what you see. I will show it soon enough. lol

So for me, the quest for a truly working TPU is not over. But now I have freed myself of the tangling web of lies on which I had based my initial efforts and will now go into wattsup-mode. If anything we come up with in the near future is in any way SM related, then good for him, but I doubt it. In my book, SM was just as smart as anyone here doing OU research. He only pushed it to a level that none here would both legally risk and morally stomach.

Last thing. I am very very sorry for this post may hurt some members here. When you follow the evidence, you have to accept the outcome. Let the evidence speak for itself. I know it hurts, but better to get real about it now then to realize this in a few more years. Whatever you guys work on is your own works. You do not spend your days and nights figuring out how to trick a video or some investors that are only led by their greedy noses.

Just realize this. There is no way in heaven or hell that a scrawny built OTPU will produce 120 watts and light up two bulbs. There is now damn way this is possible without resorting to some form of trickery. If you consider what Jack Durban has said a long time ago, and when you consider which of the two, Jack or SM, has worked years and years to achieve an honorable, trustworthy, productive, sought after and intelligent reputation, why would he put this on the line and risk libel or slander based on what he said on open radio about SM. Guys, we have to wake up. SM may have found something but it was small. His ego blew it up to what we have seen in the videos. The guys in his videos were totally mesmerized and most did not know their ass from their elbow about the technical. SM was in the same boat we are in, but in actual fact, we are in a much better boat because we have not wasted time resorting to producing fakeries. We have been learning with the real stuff, the real effects and together, we will make the future of the world a better place. We just have to believe in ourselves and stop being fed false hopes and especially faked videos. All of SM videos were faked to enhance the effect. The voltage we saw was real. The amperage we saw was not real, or partially real.

All the best.
Now, @Mk1, I can get back to the bench. Also, thanks to all those that replied on @GKs thread.

wattsup

PS: Hopefully, the next time you look at the OTPU video, you will see it in a new "light".
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: kooler on July 30, 2010, 04:54:29 AM
@wattsup
great post
the first time i saw the big tpu unit light the 10 bulbs on the 24awg test leads i knew there wasn't any current running thru the bulbs.. 830 volts at 10 amps would have smoked the leads...
plus on the smaller tpu's those small plasma sparks on hook up are more like 1kv at a few ma's
we all know that if you want to trick a clamp meter just run high volts thru the wire..
i once got excited cause i thought i built the tpu but, otto showed me that i built one of floyd sweets devices..
so i am still working on this..
i hope i did not stray to much..

robbie
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 30, 2010, 08:26:48 AM
Hello all,

@wattsup

Im speechless.

I cant read your post a second time because you wrote a lot of .......I have to be nice!

If you allow a little advice: forget the videos and concentrate on your coils. Learn, learn and again, learn.

From your previous posts I know that youre very clever and able to work and learn and I really dont understand why you wrote this post!

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on July 30, 2010, 08:36:36 AM
@Wattsup

Great post !

Thanks !

@otto

Don't be so quick to judge ... either way we can make it !

With hybrid power , basically mixing AC and DC in the magnetic domain is the key to the tpu !

@all

Look at this video , take note of when he speaks of the role of the current and the role of the voltage in the output wave , this should be enough to Make you think !

No one ever said the tpu was a OU devise , its a conversion device at best
And included in the battery category.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UneWw5w890&feature=related
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on July 30, 2010, 09:07:31 AM
Very well written .
The gyroscopic action is confirmed by any body who has held the device.

The washboard effect had never been replicated.
The engineers reports would not exist as they do.

A friend of mine has a similar perspective to you and he is still my friend.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 30, 2010, 10:05:38 AM
Hello all,

@MK1

I would never dare to judge anybody but I cant agree with @wattsup! Sorry!

I SEE on my workbench that he failed in some points in his statements.

And yes, AC and DC is mixed in a TPU but we know this from Lindsays first posts.

@Lindsay

it seems that only a core can cause a vibration of a TPU.

I used a lot of cores and only cores with a magnetic metal gave me the needed vibrations and this would mean also the gyro effect.

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on July 30, 2010, 10:47:04 AM
Hi Tito,

Unfortunately, to charge up a cap, you do need current too.

Please study this link:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capchg.html

I wonder what is your OU device COP number is? Have you estimated it?
COP=output/input

Thanks,  Gyula

yes i agree but sometimes coil charge up caps very fast, i mean extremely fast!

i am getting input first in a battery but using it only as an starter cause the antenna is included in the tpu.

i think cop measuring is not needed anymore cause its surely OU!

revealing................  ;D 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on July 30, 2010, 10:59:06 AM
@Otto

Maybe like a speaker type oscillator , probably less prone to loading ...

Not unlike a 2 coil dc motor , but with vertical action only ...

I will even make you a drawing , just because i am nice .

I don't like it because your opinion is really valued by many people around , and you can easily dictate the direction of the work done and to be done .

People should be free to waist there money on there own experiment .

In the end a opinion is just that a opinion and by definition is part of the holder .

If you succeed great , but i have seen many following your progress for years , and helping as best . what you got to show so far only a opinion .

The tpu is only a high freq generator low power just to raise the volts and a mag amps that is all , no one even built it . we just want security well the idea of if not electricity .

There is enough mag amp patent (magnetic field current amp) around all between 1945 and 1960 all agree .

if you can generate high volts from nothing and raise the current from nothing .


Ok the drawing , rigid holder ring , rubber ban 2 coils or one ...

Powered off freely moving the coils will induce a current that current can be induced back in the second coil creating motion and vs versa , so quite effective system.

Pulsing the coil will generate movement from the coil , the addition of other magnet on the outside may be need to generate movement.

This is a oscillator and a great one for that ...

It works from as low as 1.5 volts generate high voltage , i use a jt circuit ...

Then those spikes of high voltage high freq are just perfect to mix with dc current in magamp ...

if you have questions ask ...

also 2 coil motor same basic idea sorry can't find video. I believe there is a moving generator version of the magamp called . amplidyne

i should have been a engineer ...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 30, 2010, 12:13:11 PM
@MK1

dont complicate it! A 555 and some parts around it will do the job. Almost nothing special untill you start to measure around such an oscillator. Of course powered with a battery.

There was a long time ago a message, when I made the ECD, that I should "dictate" so to say the direction of our research. That Im the leader.

Im not a dictator nor a leader and all the fine people here can explore and work what they want!! We all are free. I hope at least.

You said the TPU is only a high frequency low power device. This showes me that you dont have any idea about the TPU!

The TPU is a HF device but the output power is only restricted with the diameter of the used wires in the coils. Now imagine that!!

It seems that this Friday is a "black day" in the TPU research and some people have already switched OFF their brains.

Otto



Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on July 30, 2010, 12:34:33 PM
@otto

You are a very funny guy , you told me you needed motion , i gave you motion , now you tell me it should be static , lol , make up your mind ...

Didn't i say that about high freq high voltage ? 100 volts is high for me ... i will make it from 1.5 v  :o

Well sorry , i will have a look at it ...

When you make comments about others or ridicule others by your acting and reaction , you effect others and more than you reckon , if you are great be greater , if you got something to share make it simple so everyone not following would or understanding would clearly show there card and intent ...

By your reaction at my suggestion , i see either you are unwilling to take the time to think about it , know it is logical and wright yet still try to buries it , by ego or else , or plain dumb ... i may work its charm on others ,but not here . Illogical response are from people under stress , tying to hide things , or bad reader ... those are facts . Did you look at it ?

I will however not make that judgment , but i see it .

To conclude its so simple then show it otherwise you are no better then IST.

I will agree it is simple ! I am tying to show it ! we will see who first .




 

 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 30, 2010, 12:53:40 PM
MK1

sorry, I dont get it. Motion, static?? What are you talking about?

100V are really not a high voltage but 1kV is a high voltage.

In the past I made the ECD and only a few people have rebuilded it. I posted a docu where I re3searched the particles, nobody reacted. I made a video about a special oscillator, nothing.

Yes, I know what people want: a finnished TPU and so they will only ask for the price and dont have to  waste their time and money for a device that is only low power as you said.

Yes, Im under a heavy stress because I still, like 3 and more years ago, I see only a lot of bla, bla and no test results, no drawings....I see only a lot of speculations, guesses and Im asking myself why I should jump out with something usefull when others are only wasting their time here.

The final question is: do we really "deserve" such a device like a TPU???

Thats all from me because Im from Monday on a nice vacation working on my TPUs.

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on July 30, 2010, 12:56:40 PM
Hello all,

@wattsup

Im speechless.

I cant read your post a second time because you wrote a lot of .......I have to be nice!

If you allow a little advice: forget the videos and concentrate on your coils. Learn, learn and again, learn.

From your previous posts I know that youre very clever and able to work and learn and I really dont understand why you wrote this post!

Otto


How was that helpful the guy spent 3 days working on it , you call it shit .

Don't care to enlighten him or anyone else for that matter , i have a hard time seeing , how helpful you are .

How would you like someone treating you like that ?

We will find out ...

We are at a point in history where we will have to take control , and build the future , what is your contribution belittling your colleges or be the big innovator , you imagine being . You have been at this too long you failed .

No one is bettered by listening to you , that is all , so how do you like it !

That is it go complain to Stefan ...   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on July 30, 2010, 01:10:53 PM
MK1

sorry, I dont get it. Motion, static?? What are you talking about?

100V are really not a high voltage but 1kV is a high voltage.

In the past I made the ECD and only a few people have rebuilded it. I posted a docu where I re3searched the particles, nobody reacted. I made a video about a special oscillator, nothing.

Yes, I know what people want: a finnished TPU and so they will only ask for the price and dont have to  waste their time and money for a device that is only low power as you said.

Yes, Im under a heavy stress because I still, like 3 and more years ago, I see only a lot of bla, bla and no test results, no drawings....I see only a lot of speculations, guesses and Im asking myself why I should jump out with something usefull when others are only wasting their time here.

The final question is: do we really "deserve" such a device like a TPU???

Thats all from me because Im from Monday on a nice vacation working on my TPUs.

Otto

Static means motion less , motion means moving .

You see the coil is moving in a field each time you send a pulse in the coil .

pulse coil = movement  . The movement induces current back in the coil .

It works like a speaker , that you would try to make a transformer with .

A loudspeaker you know ... coil in a magnetic field reacting by moving up and down to the signal of the amp ...

Same here 2 coil air core , 555 or JT for simpler construction .
Put a magnet near the coils and one in the middle .

The coil will move to the pulse , you could stick extra coils to generate from the movement , this only for generating higher voltages starting at 1.5 volts.

You keep the radiant spike and mix it with dc current but inside a magnetic core , they are not electrically connected . that is the magamp part .

I got some plans for 2 or 3 stages magamp ...


Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on July 30, 2010, 06:40:14 PM
wattsup,  Thank you for all your contributions here.  What you have stated in your post is your reality.  If this was a court room and it was being presented as evidence I do believe a good lawyer could tear your evidence to shreds.  I'm sorry I don't have the time to explain why I think many points are not correct or that some incorrect assumptions have been made as well as some wrong conclusions.  I'd rather spend my time building.  And in my reality the TPU is still a potential high power source.  Just one or two points I will mention as an example of incorrect conclusions.  One regarding the outlets.  I've got a few outlets in my house where the lower outlet of the two is a real problem to get a plug into.  Something inside is probably bent.  That's just one reason I can think of he may have gone for the other outlet and I've experienced this in a number of outlets over the years.  I've even had some where the little bridge inside is broken that feeds power to the second outlet so one may have even been without power.  Another assumption on the voltage needing to be lower as a second bulb was added.  I've seen negative (cold) electricity demonstrated in person.  I even helped set it up.  Added more load and the voltage goes up.  I shorted a wire across a light bulb and instead of it getting dimmer or going out it got brighter.  So the assumption that voltage would go down does not apply in that case.  And neither would it apply if he had a voltage regulation circuit which would hold the voltage under increased load.   There are a lot of assumptions and while I have no way of proving you are incorrect I don't believe you have enough evidence to prove you are correct without having SM's TPU and circuit in your lab.  That is my reality.  Yours may be different and that's okay.  At some point I hope to prove my reality is valid.  But that does not mean yours in invalid.   Cheers 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on July 30, 2010, 06:45:44 PM
MK1

sorry, I dont get it. Motion, static?? What are you talking about?

100V are really not a high voltage but 1kV is a high voltage.

In the past I made the ECD and only a few people have rebuilded it. I posted a docu where I re3searched the particles, nobody reacted. I made a video about a special oscillator, nothing.

Yes, I know what people want: a finnished TPU and so they will only ask for the price and dont have to  waste their time and money for a device that is only low power as you said.

Yes, Im under a heavy stress because I still, like 3 and more years ago, I see only a lot of bla, bla and no test results, no drawings....I see only a lot of speculations, guesses and Im asking myself why I should jump out with something usefull when others are only wasting their time here.

The final question is: do we really "deserve" such a device like a TPU???

Thats all from me because Im from Monday on a nice vacation working on my TPUs.

Otto

Otto,  I understand what you mean but in most cases people do not have unlimited funds or time to build experiments.  So most people want to know as much as possible about a circuit or concept before putting the money and effort into it.  Other people though just like to tinker regardless of the outcome.  I'm sure many people feel like they are just playing the slot machines in Las Vegas when it comes to building circuits.  You pour money in, pull the lever and you just might have a winner.  Or you've just thrown away another wad of cash.  So if we talk and share here enough to be fairly certain we'll see four sevens there will be a lot more building going on ;)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: FatBird on July 30, 2010, 07:36:21 PM
@ WattsUp,  Sorry, but I honestly thought you were a lot smarter than that.  How about explaining:


1.  When SM handed the TPU to the elderly man, the man said NOISE & VIBRATION.  How do you explain that?

2.   Why did SM say “These things have GYROSCOPIC ACTION” when he took the TPU back.

3.  What about the shuttering WASH BOARD effect when the numerous WITNESSES slid the 17” TPU back & forth on the table?  Were these guys just “faking it”, & in on the plot too?

4.  How do you explain SM lighting up TEN 100 Watt light bulbs IN SERIES, in front of that group & then CUTTING the TPU apart to show NO BATTERIES?  How did he fake that one?

5.  Were the Cal Tech (California Technological University) in on the “plot & cover up too”?  The professors wrote SEVERAL MARVELOUS REPORTS about SM’s POWERFUL TPUs.  Were these electrical & physics engineering PROFESSORS stupid and were “hoodwinked” too?  LOL

6.  What about SM striking that BIG flaming arc using his 17” TPU.  Was that faked with a couple of 9V batteries too?

7.  What about the Cal Tech Professors doing EXHAUSTIVE TESTS & REPORTED that SM demonstrated the TPU POWER by blowing OUT a HEAVY DUTY 50 AMP CARTRIDGE FUSE?  Was that faked too with a few 9V batteries?  ROFL.

8.  Why did UEC Corporation buy out SM’s TPU inventions, & give SM a LIFETIME PENSION  if they were all fakes?

9.  And finally, what about the FBI seizing all of SM’s TPUs & threatening to send him to PRISON for communicating TPU information on the Web.  Was all of that about FAKE TPUs?

===========================================

Excerpt of the Cal Tech Professor’s Report:


The first unit was roughly shaped like a large donut. It measured approximately 4.72” across with an inside diameter hole of 3” making a core width approximately 1” thick.  The unit was exactly 2” tall, resembling a toroid. I did not measure the weight however the unit was extremely light when held in the hand.

Mr. Mark connected the unit directly to a 100 watt 120 volt incandescent light bulb and caused the unit to operate. It did in fact illuminate the incandescent bulb quite brightly. I measured the
voltage at 137 volts D.C. exactly, (ObS). See note*

The second unit was again toroid shaped with a large hole in the center. It was approximately 15” at the outside and 13” inside with a core thickness of approximately 1”.  The unit was 4” tall. The unit was not measured in weight but could be easily lifted with one hand, (ObS).

I asked the inventor if this was the limit of the unit and he replied, “no way.” He provided a quick blow fuse rated at 50 amperes.

With two large electrical clamps and wiring, he shorted the fuse across the output terminals of the toroid and destroyed the fuse, (ObS). There was only a slight flickering of the ten incandescent bulbs as observed although there was a tremendous discharge of sparks from the output terminals of the toroid unit.

The inventor then gave me the fuse for examination. It was warm to the touch and smelled acrid, (ObS). It was a large 240 volt AC air conditioner disconnect fuse and designed for severe service duty, (OsS).

The inventor’s claim that the large toroid output terminals were at lethal potential was no longer in question. The time was 11:20 AM when the inventor removed the small toroid unit from operation because of heat build up. I examined the small toroid unit and it was indeed quite hot to the touch.

.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 30, 2010, 08:14:36 PM
Now guys....
Drop the authors and pull out the nuggets.

Noise and vibration? 2 transformers rattling each other side by side.
Gyroscopic? heavy magnetic banging.
Large sparks? Only a stun gun type circuit can do this off a small power source. Electrostatic. If the size of disruption and close proximity were conduction then SM would have blown his arms off right there.

Back to the lab! Muwahaha...

Progress report and TPU bootcamp video on the way.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on July 30, 2010, 08:26:36 PM
Now guys....
Drop the authors and pull out the nuggets.

Noise and vibration? 2 transformers rattling each other side by side.

or one transformer and a particle gun working in pulses  ::)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: penno64 on July 30, 2010, 10:43:18 PM
How come no one mentions the youtube video where emdevices drives to the place where SM lived.

What about the power lines shown in that video

Penno
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on July 31, 2010, 12:39:28 AM
  @ FatBird:
      Thanks for all that... we needed to hear it, also.  From the side of those who think that it is possible,  and not just BS.
                                                                              NickZ
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 31, 2010, 12:40:24 AM
@FatBird

Now your talking pertinent points. Let's look at these one by one as per your numberings.

1) Just take any magnet and put it near a pulsing coil or toroid coil and a reed contact. You will hear the reed and feel the gyro-shmyro effect. Big deal. All a distraction. SM always put a magnet on his devices except on the 6tpu that had a toggle switch. How else do you expect him to turn the thing on without some type of switch. When he finished the STPU demo onto which he put a magnet, he then turned the STPU over just before he walked to the LTPU to do that demo. Why did he turn over the STPU?

2) Of course it will have a gyro action because any independently non-secure object that has a pulsating coil and a magnet will create that effect. You can try and stop the vibration as much as you try it will not work.

3) First of all the LTPU in that video was on a towel so it could slide. Again magnetics and pulsing coil, nothing more. You guys are reading to much into that gyro thing. There is nothing new about that.

4) First of all he showed 800 vdc, XXX amps. At 1 amp, thats 800 watts or on 10 100 watt bulbs thats 80 vdc per bulb or 80 watts per bulb. Now look at a 120vac 100 watts bulb that's plugged into the regular wall plug. Look how bright it is. Now apply 80vdc to the same bulb and see how bright it is. Now compare that to his 10 bulbs. Totally different. So how is that possible???? Guess. 800 watts of lighting bulbs would have rendered that room totally illuminated. The brightness in the video was far from that. That's the way he does it. Illusion.

5) Those reports are so lamely, written with nothing but impressions. No amperage/voltage was taken while loaded. Nothing in the scientific method was used to determine anything with absolute certitude. Wonder why???

6) I had already proven that the LTPU has a raised center platform and given the gained height it could harbor about 200 9v batteries. Would you like to see how much spark you can get with that many batteries. Now use that energy in a pulsing method and the sky is the limit.

Regarding cutting the MTPU, if you build a battery loaded LTPU, would you know where to cut to not touch the batteries. Question: Who made the cuts??????

7) See #5 and #6.

8) Because UEC got paid also to shut up, so there was enough money to go around.

9) No one at the FBI new their asses from their elbows about the TPU device. They all really thought it was real, they paid shut up money and took off with the devices. But no one in the FBI or elsewhere will have enough brains to start up SMs devices and make them work. They will just rot away on a shelf somewhere or have already been destroyed, either way, I am sure it is to SMs greatest pleasure to not have to dig them devices up and explain everything. Ha. What a deal he got. Fake OU and get paid for life. That could be a best selling book.

That covers your questions. If you have any more relevant ones, please let me know.


@e2matrix

My reality is to find the truth and from what I can honestly observe of not only the SM videos, but the SM story, the SM person, his character, just listen to what he said to Jack Durban on his answering machine and you will get some idea of the most recent SM.

SM would not leave a bad plug in the wall too chance. He is too much of a control freak to leave a bad plug in the wall. He would have changed that plug and modified the new one accordingly. Also, just ask your self why SM almost always first plug bulbs into a wall socket. Why would you do that?

If I modified one of my wall plugs to receive a direct DC source from a power supply, let's say 24vdc, and instead of putting a AC bulb I plugged a DC bulb into that same wall plug and you can see the bulb lighting up, what would you think???? Printing 100watts on a bulb is childs play. I would show you the bulb after I unplugged it and you would think this is a real 100 watt bulb he is plugging onto the TPU. lol

About the voltage being lower when plugged with first and second bulb, man, come on already. You can't even do that with car batteries without seeing a voltage change. Not even a .01 volt change. No way.

@otto

I understand what you are saying and this was one of my greatest concerns that because of this post, you will think I am not a true TPUer. Sorry if you would think that and regardless of what you may think of me, i can only have the greatest admiration and respect for you. I am sorry again and hope that you saying this is a Black Friday, may be more a White Friday with all trying to bring to light so many of the inconsistencies of the SM TPU.

Just know that I have not stopped my TPU research. The post I made is just part of the research to delimit what was actually accomplished and what was not. This is part of the process. For me, SM produced reactive output and very possible he did it without any input energy. But that is all it was. The rest was all a ploy to maintain his standing because if he only showed a device producing reactive power that was very limited in what it could actually do, even without any input power, what is the commercial value. Hmmmmmm. For you and me, just making a reactive non-input device would be the top of the world regardless of any monetary value, but for SM, that was not enough. Hence all these well orchestrated and totally controlled videos. Sorry again.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on July 31, 2010, 01:17:54 AM
Hopefully, no one will be discouraged by the latest empty claim that the TPU is fake and that the power comes from batteries or powerlines.

Can anyone here explain how a moving magnet induces current in a piece of wire?  If you do not know how a simple magnet and a wire interacts to induce current, then how can you ever hope to figure out any alternative energy device?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: powerunlimited on July 31, 2010, 01:28:38 AM
Great post wattsup,one thing the SM videos were  made in 1997 or 1998 and the video cameras response is different than todays video cameras,I` know this for a fact as ,I have a sony camcorder made in 1998 that works.
The video response will effect how the light bulbs look,
remember too the videos were a come on to lure suckers(investors) in,as to the character of SM your right on target.Is the TPU real ,unknown,50/50 chance real or fake.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on July 31, 2010, 03:33:33 AM
@wattsup,   

thank you for taking to time to do the light bulb demonstration and to contemplate the TPUs.   I like your energy and your detective work...

now that I buttered you up, it's time for your spanking ....  :)


1)  In the OTPU video,  SM says the bulbs are not lit quite as brightly when powered by 91.2 volts DC or whatever.   Did you miss that?

2)  Are you familiar with the exposure function on your camera?.  Play with it and freeze it at a particular value.   You see, cameras automatically adjust the brightness, and if it wouldn't be for SM saying the bulbs are not as bright, I never would have guessed it from the video, they look just as bright to me.  It's the camera adjusting itself.  Your video is a side-by-side comparison of a bright bulb next to a dimmer bulb, so naturally the camera exposure is going to adjust after the brightest object in the scene, thereby making the other bulb look darker.



@all,

make no mistake, the Steven Mark videos demonstrate real power that is induced into the devices by a magnetic field frequency(s) as he claims very clearly in the first video.     I know what magnetic field is responsible, and I don't have to repeat myself, I think you all know my position very well.   

EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 31, 2010, 03:54:08 AM
All of the TPUs are air megs (refer to Bearden).
I too put neos in the TPU and produced vibration. No big deal.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on July 31, 2010, 03:54:41 AM
I think whatsup is trying to put things in perspective for him self and possibly find agreement from others.

It is a shame that he did not consider for one moment how the person whom  he does not know would fell about that.

None of the videos were made to put on the internet . If he read the story in full he might just apply some of it to the human aspects of it as it was not intended that a monkey diagram would be made available.

I spent my latter youth flying things that surely should not fly in the minds of those with no lateral thought  ..back then..now they are everywhere.

The number of stupid questions I had to answer back then was amazing.

Is it safe ? ... no Im dead and you are talking to a ghost

Is it legal?  Oh shit, I forgot my lawyer

How do you steer it ?  By learning step by step

Is it easy to fly ? Yes for me it is very easy ..you will crash if you begin at this point that you see me at now

Do you need a license?.... would you write me one please??!!

And the worst, and the best of all. "That looks like way too much fun to be legal!"


You have all been given good clues but so few are doing anything with them.

Otherwise all of your workshops would be full of electron tubes and clean hv supplies .

you would not complain just because you cant make one like in the video

I think that it is unlikley that many grasp the importance of the bits of jigsaw puzzle that have been given , let alone actually do something other than make up their own story.

This is not meant as criticisim because putting more wood on the fire serves no purpose but to enrage those who actually know for sure how wrong they are .
On that score 100% success is to whatsup, intended or not

NONE OF THE VIDEOS WERE EVER MADE FOR MASS DISTRIBTION

The uec video was however allowed to be posted.

Thats said .......


Its amazing how just when things are comming to a centre of focous ..this kind of bomb is dropped
Perhaps we are being controlled?

.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on July 31, 2010, 05:02:11 AM
This is a quote from someone who has witnessed similar device to Steven's TPUs, perhaps the small one he built:



The first model consisted of a ring magnet less then three inches in diameter. Around the magnet were coils rigged as only he knows how to rig them, and another set of coils pass through the center of the ring.
...
The second model is built around a ring magnet, the outside of which is seven inches and the inside is six inches.
...
It is the inventor's theory that his machine draws its energy from the earth's magnetic field.



any guesses who it is?

EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on July 31, 2010, 05:09:59 AM
@all,

make no mistake, the Steven Mark videos demonstrate real power that is induced into the devices by a magnetic field frequency(s) as he claims very clearly in the first video.     I know what magnetic field is responsible, and I don't have to repeat myself, I think you all know my position very well.   

EM

Still waiting to see someone demonstrate a decent degree of powerline induction at the same distance Steven was from those high tension lines.   Demonstrating the rotating compass as well would be an added treat.

You have all been given good clues but so few are doing anything with them.

you would not complain just because you cant make one like in the video

I think that it is unlikley that many grasp the importance of the bits of jigsaw puzzle that have been given , let alone actually do something other than make up their own story.

This is not meant as criticisim because putting more wood on the fire serves no purpose but to enrage those who actually know for sure how wrong they are .

Perhaps we are being controlled?

You bring up some very good points, Mannix.  Steven and others have given more than enough information to succeed, but what has everyone done with it?  As a whole, all you have done is fight amongst yourselves, gloat, argue, and talk the idea of the TPU to death. 

Souron painstaking worked his way through Steven's clues and even posted some of the best clues ever, such as his image with the sun, earth, and tpu.  Practically a "how to" guide.  All to no avail.

Someone called spherics gave plans for a tetrahedral device, but it appears no one bothered to build it or even experiment along the lines of what he spoke of.

Some were off to a good start, only to get disillusioned and spin off along tangents.

Oh well, someone will figure it out eventually.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on July 31, 2010, 05:14:29 AM
This is a quote from someone who has witnessed similar device to Steven's TPUs, perhaps the small one he built:



The first model consisted of a ring magnet less then three inches in diameter. Around the magnet were coils rigged as only he knows how to rig them, and another set of coils pass through the center of the ring.
...
The second model is built around a ring magnet, the outside of which is seven inches and the inside is six inches.
...
It is the inventor's theory that his machine draws its energy from the earth's magnetic field.



any guesses who it is?

EM

how is the magnetic ring polarized?

what is the orientation of the coils?

The energy does not come from the earth's magnetic field, but it may allow it to work.  The difference is lack of understanding about the coils and how they interact.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on July 31, 2010, 05:17:23 AM
All of the TPUs are air megs (refer to Bearden).
I too put neos in the TPU and produced vibration. No big deal.

By now, anyone trying to build a TPU knows that the MEG and the TPU are entirely different and that Bearden's endless rants about dipoles and conjugation will not help you build a TPU.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 31, 2010, 05:41:37 AM
I truly beg to differ:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg250549#msg250549 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg250549#msg250549)

Current progress is I have the drivers partially setup and am continuing to work on them this weekend.
I am trying to take this a step further. This new model is a version of the GK4 from the past but a little more refined. I see in this build the process is a somewhat closer to using just the coil activity. The process is what is important not the build itself. There are some new factors in this and a compilation of previous specs from others including Steven Mark, Spherics, Sauron and Bolt. One could almost surmise they are the same person. But that is another thread.

I hope that what I posted will be of use. I have only built from the mined nuggets.
Up to this point I thank everybody and their knowledge sharing. For without it we are one hand clapping in the dark.

--giantkiller. I press on...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on July 31, 2010, 06:33:03 AM
I truly beg to differ:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg250549#msg250549 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg250549#msg250549)

Current progress is I have the drivers partially setup and am continuing to work on them this weekend.
I am trying to take this a step further. This new model is a version of the GK4 from the past but a little more refined. I see in this build the process is a somewhat closer to using just the coil activity. The process is what is important not the build itself. There are some new factors in this and a compilation of previous specs from others including Steven Mark, Spherics, Sauron and Bolt. One could almost surmise they are the same person. But that is another thread.

I hope that what I posted will be of use. I have only built from the mined nuggets.
Up to this point I thank everybody and their knowledge sharing. For without it we are one hand clapping in the dark.

--giantkiller. I press on...

I see you are still riding the GK4 wave, which hit the beach a long time ago.  The build is very importante.  You can not just throw a bunch of coils together and hope it works. 

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on July 31, 2010, 06:55:19 AM
@Sigma16,
Show us then and excuse me if I enjoy what I do.

Post the documents you refer too.

And OBTW there are 3 Spherics builds in progress. The bad ecomony has taken its toll on those builders. I empathize with them and do not push. The people that have been here long have lives and other responsibilities. It is a tangible connection to normality that is so desperately needed with the TPU addiction.

You do not know who or what is finished.

I sense another slugfest approaching. There have been way too many with no positive outcome and only dismembered egos.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on July 31, 2010, 08:23:42 AM
why vacuum tubes are important ?
answer in simple terms please !

is that because of switching speed - sharp rise and fall edges without noise ?

coils interactions : why we do not understand it ? maybe BECAUSE we don't see this type of interaction when not using vacuum tubes and correct timings ?
we see only magnetic induction, but I saw something (electrostatic induction?) when you break LC oscillation using precisely  nano or picoseconds break without distortion or slow falling slope
it looks like that common electrostatic tension visible around HV lines now dramatically spread around in spherical shockwave
is that what we are looking for ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mannix on July 31, 2010, 10:51:46 AM
why vacuum tubes are important ?
answer in simple terms please !


Because the inventer said specifically that it was much easier with them. 

I will return to my cave now and watch all the ss smoking
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on July 31, 2010, 03:54:57 PM
Post the documents you refer too.

Documents?  I never referred to any documents.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 31, 2010, 04:22:23 PM
Hello all,

@wattsup

I know that you are a real TPUer. A very clever one. And I enjoy every time you wright a post - of course not that from "black Friday", ha,ha.

You mentioned reactive power.

Can you tell me and all the people here what reactive power is? Just to clarify a little bit.

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on July 31, 2010, 07:13:29 PM
@otto

Thank you for your question which is pertinent.

We have all been playing around with reactive power. It is higher voltage output that anyone here can make like the guys in the JT thread. I made up to 800 volts with just a center toroid, 1500 vdc with the Tesla Ozone Patent. High voltage but very low amperage. When you put a real load on this output it will show a few volts only, remove the load and voltage jumps in the hundreds. Consumption is micro amps.

The OTPU is two systems that are totally non-connected. One system is in the OTPU so without the bulbs connected to the OTPU SM could show voltage of 91.2 vdc. But this is reactive power and cannot do anything useful besides making your volt meter read an output. Then he connected his battery driven bulbs, possibly even DC bulbs that he used with printed 100watts on them. The batteries, maybe 12-24vdc lit the bulbs from one side, and the reactive power of the OTPU showed the voltage as 91.2 vdc. This I am now totally and irrefutably convinced this is the way SM did his OTPU video. I also know how he made his other videos.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/12-PCS-A19-LOW-VOLTAGE-12V-DC-LIGHT-BULB-50W-FROST-/110555756042?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bda2f60a

@all

SM said he went to great lengths to ensure his videos were done in a way so as to show the power output of his devices and leave no doubt. What great lengths? Great lengths means you put a voltmeter and an ammeter and a scope on the output before and while you apply a load. It means you put your voltmeter and ammeter on the wall plugs before you plug the bulbs and while you plug the bulbs.

Did he do that? No. Never. Not once. The great lengths for SM means he did everything possible to make a video "à la David Copperfield". So this means anything and everything is legal terrain to fool you into thinking what you think you see is reality. This is the level of his great lengths.

Regarding the bulb brightness with 1997 cameras, any of that possible compensation would have been evident in all the video and not just on the bulbs. The camera cannot distinguish or modify the brightness of only one part of a frame, it will modify the whole frame. 800 watts of bulbs being lit would have blinded everyone in that room. If the camera compensated for the brightness, then everything else would have been totally black. But it would not have blinded them if the bulbs were only 12 or 24 volts pulsed DC with 200 9vdc batteries under the hood, of course you see 800 volts but again that is reactive power output on the voltmeter, but the bulbs are really only need 12-24 vdc. That's why he never connected the voltmeter while there was a load.

Question: I have one output that is fed both a 12vdc of 2 amps and a reactive power of 110vdc at micro amps. What will the volt meter read???????? What will the bulb receive??????

The STPU was almost melting away. What coil will still perform his function while it is melting away? There has to be a stable driving force for that to happen. Just like the 6TPU. It is loaded with batteries but not to drive a real 100 watts bulb. He takes a DC bulb, puts it on the tall thin lamp stand that is now plugged into the wall socket. This time SM cannot hide batteries in the stand. So he modifies the bottom wall plug again. This time he puts a small bridge rectifier in the wall plug with a resistor to bring down the output of the bottom plug to 12-24vdc. You and I see the bulb is plugged into the wall so we automatically think it is getting 120vac at 100 watts. We take a mental snap shot of that brightness for a mental comparison when he plugs it onto the 6TPU. He puts the voltmeter on the 6TPU and reads 121.8 vdc or around there. But again this is only reactive power. If the 6TPU was really putting out only 12vdc or 24vdc, would you need an inverter to run a TV or a drill? Hence that inverter video.....

Anyways, I did not post this information to start a war. That was really what I was afraid of. Are TPUers ready to look at the facts, the cold hard facts. Maybe not yet and I am sorry then to have jumped the gun. Can you treat this in an impersonal manner and not attack each other and not make childish claims that "I am bitter that I did not make a TPU". I am not bitter at all. I have done many tests and have a good idea on how to go forward but it is not because of SM. It's thanks to all of you. The realization that SM has used two power methods to do his videos fits perfectly into his video methodology and is only a greater clarification for me to move forward. Where SM failed, we will now move forward and succeed without relying on his design parameters that were only good to produce reactive power. Technically we are much further advanced then SM ever was. The only main difference is we are honest about what we do and how we do it and also about the results we get. We don't go around faking videos or results. We don't take this effort as a David Copperfield type fake-o-rama where anything and everything you can do to fool people is all right.

Sorry again to have ruffled some feathers but I am sure you will all be back in the sky soon enough. I will now stop posting anything new about the SM TPUs and return to our regular programming.

Maybe one last thing. If you think I am pleased to have had to post this, then you are definitely mistaken. It would be very easy for me to just bury this info and forget about it, hoping that regardless, guys here will eventually find another angle that has more promise then following so many SMnitudes. But I thought if it does not help some on the forum, it may help others that are always hanging around but never post. Proof of this is a note I took down just before posting. Before my post there were 31190 views of this thread. Since my post there are now 32707 views. Surely those that posted here since were not the only ones reading this thread, so, to all of you out there in TPUdom and this goes for me also.................. back to the bench. There is more work to be done. For me, the SM TPU saga is now solved. Using the methods outlined, anyone can now replicate how SM did his videos right down to a "T". Very easy to do.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on July 31, 2010, 08:26:35 PM
I don't think we have to use tubes because of SS's are smoking in these circuits. I have problem with SS  switches when there is already DC current flowing in the secondary, when a pulse hit the primary. In these cases, when you scope the gate you will see a lot of noise. But when I use tubes, all the noise disappear, and the control frequency's are clear as it should be.

There must be over 1000 patents which have OU potential and a hundred patents anyone of which if built and tested on a grand scale like the dozens of OU motors would have created world changing events. Due greed, corruption and just big egos followed by suppression many of these OU motors and devices remain hidden away or museum pieces.

OU is not a pipe dream its always been here. If you doubt that then you need to go back to basics and start to read Teslas work.  Its only the method which leads to OU.  OU starts with the most simple form of energy which is lightning otherwise known as static.

TO suggest SM TPU is fake is total BS. It certainly doesn't extract power grid energy nor is it powered by some microwave beam.  These ideas are dream't up by those that can not appreciate that devices which create the conditions to allow energy transformation have been around for a very long time. Not forgetting the TPU was used and tested in many many locations including several States, Oz and NZ that I know of oh, and up in a plane. So no time to frig these locations with hidden batteries and specially crafted lamp holders.

Not only is there the TPU to consider but recently Kapandze. Now if this is a trick box that doesn't work I be more then happy to take one!

I seen and read too much to think otherwise. To me OU is no different to having access to air or water....they are naturally occurring commodities.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on July 31, 2010, 10:38:42 PM
@wattsup

again a question:

OK, reactice power is useless. But what if you would use a combination of reactive power AND lets say 24V from a battery? Or 12V?

Otto
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on July 31, 2010, 11:37:45 PM
For everyone's information:

1)  the joule thief is not an OU device
2)  Tesla coils are not OU devices
3)  there are no OU devices!  ( only receivers of energy).

Stop living a fantasy and build a coil to receive energy. Lester Hendershot, Hubbard, Steven Mark, TESLA, Henry Moray, and a bunch of others have done it,  can you?

BTW,  The quotes I posted earlier were from 82 years ago, newspaper articles about the Hendershot device, makes you wonder doesn't it?


EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 01, 2010, 12:16:11 AM
@bolt

SM could go anywhere he wants with a 6TPU loaded with batteries and a 12vdc bulb printed 100watts. Anywhere he goes, he will be able to show a reactive voltage reading of 121vdc off the TPU, then remove the voltmeter and plug the dc bulb and get good lumens. From the same output terminal he shows higher voltage but really drives at lower voltage. You would never know the difference.

I am bringing here a perfectly well thought out explanation of how SM did his videos. This is based on a few years of complete analysis of every little part of his videos, every action, every effect shown. I took a good two months to formulate this explanation in order to cover as many of the angles and especially the progression from one TPU to the next.

So @bolt, I understand your apprehensions perfectly well because I deal with them every day myself, even now. But, don't tell me the only ideas you have for OU come from the TPU. The idea should come from @bolt, or @GK, or @otto, or @wattsup, or yes, yes, @IST or all other members here that i have not named but are here beside us. Or Tesla. But if we keep this SM TPU thing, we are destined to turn around in circles.

Question: Why can the elephant survive by not eating more then a mouse. Answer: Because the mouse is in a very realistic elephant suit.

If you don't know about the suit, then you will be breaking your head for years trying to figure it out. Everything you try will not fit. You can open up the World Center for Elephant Nutritional Studies and work there for decades. You will never figure it out. Oh but you will definitely come up with some great theories, all to no avail. But great theories they still are indeed. This is the quandary we are in with this SM TPU business. We accepted low quality data and held it up to the highest pedestal as cold hard cash. But every year we are more and more short changed. The more I test, the more I realize this is not true, the more I realize a few turns of wire will not produce real useful power. The more I study the SM videos the more I see and realize there are major discrepancies and all these point to only one thing. SM in reality is David Copperfield. Just jok'in but you get the drift.

@otto

I have done that mix for days and days. The 24vdc with greater amperage will take over the whole circuit function. The reactive power will only make a tickle on that type of set-up. But when you put your voltmeter on the output you will see 100 or more vdc. But when you apply a load you will see the 24vdc plus maybe a 3-5vdc added by the reactive power making about 27-30vdc.

That's why SM never keeps his voltmeter on the device when loaded otherwise you would see the voltage drop to the true RMS output of the device because it is now under load. He did keep the voltmeter on the OTPU because each of the two bulbs had their own power source. Thus there was no reactive/dc output mix but two separate outputs being shown.

The only real TPU is the FTPU. It produced 62vdc of reactive power for the voltmeter. if it had produced real power, SM would surely have put a bulb on it to show the real output. But he did not. Exactly how I have found it to do the same thing in my tests while consuming only micro-amps. It was these tests that started me on this road to realizing how SM did his videos. We always looked for either "real" or "fake". But we never considered the TPU could be half-real and half fake. Once you do that, all the pieces fit perfectly into place.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: EMdevices on August 01, 2010, 12:44:28 AM
Making power receivers at higher frequencies is easier then at the lower TPU frequencies of 5kHz, and even though the low frequency energy is more widely available, high frequency "hot spots" are still around in the AM broadcast band.

So,  if you really want some good ol' high frequency "free energy" then try looking up an AM radio station near you.  In the US use   www.fcc.gov

Here's one station and it's printout to show you how strong the signal can be at 1 kilometer away, around 2.6 V/m RMS.   If you were to built for yourself a 1 m antenna and feed the signal to a resonant tank with a Q of around 80, you could be receiving around 200 Volts easily.  If you build for yourself a tuned loop, due to the fact that magnetic induction takes advantage of frequency to boost voltage, you could have much better results.

So leave the low frequency tuners alone, they're for the experts.  ;)

EM
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 01, 2010, 03:11:19 AM
@bolt

SM could go anywhere he wants with a 6TPU loaded with batteries and a 12vdc bulb printed 100watts. Anywhere he goes, he will be able to show a reactive voltage reading of 121vdc off the TPU, then remove the voltmeter and plug the dc bulb and get good lumens. From the same output terminal he shows higher voltage but really drives at lower voltage. You would never know the difference.

I am bringing here a perfectly well thought out explanation of how SM did his videos. This is based on a few years of complete analysis of every little part of his videos, every action, every effect shown. I took a good two months to formulate this explanation in order to cover as many of the angles and especially the progression from one TPU to the next.

So @bolt, I understand your apprehensions perfectly well because I deal with them every day myself, even now. But, don't tell me the only ideas you have for OU come from the TPU. The idea should come from @bolt, or @GK, or @otto, or @wattsup, or yes, yes, @IST or all other members here that i have not named but are here beside us. Or Tesla. But if we keep this SM TPU thing, we are destined to turn around in circles.

Question: Why can the elephant survive by not eating more then a mouse. Answer: Because the mouse is in a very realistic elephant suit.

If you don't know about the suit, then you will be breaking your head for years trying to figure it out. Everything you try will not fit. You can open up the World Center for Elephant Nutritional Studies and work there for decades. You will never figure it out. Oh but you will definitely come up with some great theories, all to no avail. But great theories they still are indeed. This is the quandary we are in with this SM TPU business. We accepted low quality data and held it up to the highest pedestal as cold hard cash. But every year we are more and more short changed. The more I test, the more I realize this is not true, the more I realize a few turns of wire will not produce real useful power. The more I study the SM videos the more I see and realize there are major discrepancies and all these point to only one thing. SM in reality is David Copperfield. Just jok'in but you get the drift.

@otto

I have done that mix for days and days. The 24vdc with greater amperage will take over the whole circuit function. The reactive power will only make a tickle on that type of set-up. But when you put your voltmeter on the output you will see 100 or more vdc. But when you apply a load you will see the 24vdc plus maybe a 3-5vdc added by the reactive power making about 27-30vdc.

That's why SM never keeps his voltmeter on the device when loaded otherwise you would see the voltage drop to the true RMS output of the device because it is now under load. He did keep the voltmeter on the OTPU because each of the two bulbs had their own power source. Thus there was no reactive/dc output mix but two separate outputs being shown.

The only real TPU is the FTPU. It produced 62vdc of reactive power for the voltmeter. if it had produced real power, SM would surely have put a bulb on it to show the real output. But he did not. Exactly how I have found it to do the same thing in my tests while consuming only micro-amps. It was these tests that started me on this road to realizing how SM did his videos. We always looked for either "real" or "fake". But we never considered the TPU could be half-real and half fake. Once you do that, all the pieces fit perfectly into place.

Basically what you are saying that if the TPU is fake then you have to dispute virtually all the other OU devices and declare them all fakes. The TPU is real. I know all about the VARS and i know how to convert VARS to WATTS and i also know how to drive the TPU with just a few milliwatts without so much as a fet bang anywhere. I know the configuration of the mag amps and exactly what they are used for and how it works. I know what the magnet is for and exactly how it works to correct the b field bias.  I know how to wire the coils and provide circulation magntitc fields. I have posted all this over and over in my prior posts.

The 5Khz clock runs the magamps is standard in all his devices. Because it runs the magamps it appears on the DC o/p as "5khz mush".

The sub sections i described i have tested individually and or seen others perform these test. What i have never been able to do without funding is full TPU reconstruction but every single part of the TPU is already crossed referenced with known prior art in the OU world. Every statement SM made is true and i can cross reference it with something else as anecdotal evidence he is not a scammer.

His clues really were trying to give everyone the best possible chance.  In fact i never seen anyone make a TPU on here yet not even close. They are all power FET coil bangers and not tuned and not stacked 3 layers high either and i certainly never seen anyone use mag-amps and bias it correctly which is pretty essential to the operation of a TPU becuase it controls the entire inductance and tuning of the device. When you get this right it will start with just one sweep of a magnet over the coils.

I will tell you something else  the answer to the TPU wasn't in the TPU its impossible to reverse engineer something off a video while all the circuits remained hidden. Look at Kapagen it was only  microwave oven transformer in a blue box and a coil of wire yet very few guessed what it was or even how it was wired looking at a passing vid shot.

The answer was in everything else. There are glimpses of the TPU in dozens of patents going back the last 100 years.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on August 01, 2010, 04:18:06 AM
Hopefully, no one will be discouraged by the latest empty claim that the TPU is fake and that the power comes from batteries or powerlines.

Can anyone here explain how a moving magnet induces current in a piece of wire?  If you do not know how a simple magnet and a wire interacts to induce current, then how can you ever hope to figure out any alternative energy device?

The distribution of charge carrying mass forms a lattice within the magnet.  The charge carriers have what is known as a virtual particle stream to support their state of charge.  When you move the charge carriers you alter the virtual particle streams and this change in the vps resisted by the mass of the free charge carriers in the conducting wire give rise to free electron motion.  Along with this motion is carried the charge which of course alters the vp flow wherever it goes.  If the electrons are caused to accumulate in a metal that sets up a high velocity current between a metal lacking electrons we have a condensed vps of high velocity.  Like anyother liquid an increase in velocity is accompanied by a decrease in pressure.  The casmir effect Aharanov Bohm effect  Teslas longitudinal electrostatic induced waves all point to a viscosity of the vacuum in other words there is something there that is sticky, It is not only sticky it is boundless.  The mathmatics of particle physics had to be normalized.  This created the vacuum.  The vacuum is the absence of particles so in their mathmatics dealing with force arise virtual particles.  In all reality it is a virtual liquid.  Maxwell recognized this included it in his math but Heaviside was all about getting something workable into the hands of engineers and electricians ASAP to get this electric age on the road and didnt really care about what Maxwell was saying.  There was no preoccupation with a dwindling supply of fuel at that time it was a matter of moving the fire to the edge of town and getting clean electricity into town.  Well the fire is still on the edge of town except for the oil burners scurrying to and fro stinking up the place.  The stored sunshine is getting harder and harder to find so why the fuck are we not converting heat into electricity.  This preoccupation with sunshine is ridiculous.  The reason it is happening is that it takes up room and is made from sand.  The sand is melted to form crystals which requires the infusion of heat from the dwindling supplies of fossil fuels.  The energy used to melt the sand install and ship the panels will never be regained.  Why do you need a solar collector when water vapor
has already done the collection for you.  Stanley Myers water was not cold in his cells.  It has a definite amount of kinetic energy associated with mass in motion.  As the temperature in the cells go down the law of thermal dynamics says that heat will travel into the cell.  What is the big deal with electrostatic cooling.  They know that electrostatic cooling of a device will result in the device becoming a heat collector.  They know that the electrostatic cooling of open air can convert megawatts of energy directly from the atomosphere.  Not weak ass temperature differentially driven currents like thermalcouples just conversion of molecular motion into electron motion.  No control at all on where you set up your converter.  The crop circles have eleagantly portrayed water molecules showing the vibrational modes of the water molecule.  Why would someone even bother showing water molecules terrestrial or extra.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 01, 2010, 05:15:25 AM
So my response is in reference to my current build:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8227.msg250549#msg250549

It has a iron core.
It has 3 layers, albeit in the concentric fashion.
It has control coils wound full circumference of the collector.
The collector leads exit apart from each other like in the very early diagram.
It has 3 frequencies.
It has floating ground.
It is driven by micro amps.
It uses a 9 volt battery.
It is switched with the highest of transitions. Only the rise and fall of the input pulse.
It has the same qualities of a magamp but in layers not segments.
The circuit sits in the middle like all of SM's TPUs.

So where does this not add up?
In other words in defense of Wattsup and Bolt, Bolt says we haven't done enuff, Wattsup say there is too much in the wrong direction.
I have taken a different stance. I have tried to put it all in perspective and put the best nuggets on the scale.
@Wattsup, what about the gyroscopic action? A pager motor performs the same trick. I put one in the motor driven hand I built for tactile feedback. We didn't want it too fast or it would buzz. But at the right slow speed while the user would grip something and sweep the hand with an out stretched arm the pulsing felt like harmonic waves up the arm. Thump, thump, thump. Just thought I throw this in here.
If the TPU is a fake how does one explain the large spark demo by SM? What, he built a large stun gun to fake the public?

Back to the speille.
For the list I gave and the post in my thread as reference: what could be missing. I have seen the items on the list hammered into the ground one by one. Seperately they don't do squat. But together we get the choir singing with the orchestra, no?

Through all this we have learned a great, great deal. Enough so that the rest of society looks at us like we are nuts, they don't understand, Or their jaws drop in amazement. No? And when you mention the whos who on the project from extensively educated to the dead greats, the listeners are in awe. There faces light up with the inconceivable right in front of their minds. They see hope.
All the devices that Bolt mentions are undeniable. We have seen them, picked them apart, built small subsets of tests, and show the results.

I mentioned the air meg(to many this is an inconceivable concept). I stand my ground on this. Fields ping ponging back and forth or up and down. How else could the coils work? We have had to read through alot of stuff. But the nuggets all make a bigger idol. Irrefutable.

If somebody wants to disagree they had better not be a newbie is all. And I will listen.

I am supposed to be on the bench right now but am here.
@wattsup,
Don't burn out.

p.s. picture from history
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on August 01, 2010, 06:44:21 AM
  @Bolt and All:
   Thanks for bringing up the positive side to this TPU thread. Isn't that why we are here. We had faith in what we saw, and what was shown in the videos?  With the hope that much more would be forthcoming...
   I agree with your view point on the fact that NOBODY has made an exact replication of any the SM TPUs, but instead all known builders have made their own versions of it.  Why is that?  Not even one device, just like his.  In ten years...
  Bolt, please explain a bit more about the exact working function of the passive magamp idea, as it relates to the TPU.  I for one am very interested in the passive working aspect, using no solid state components.  But, I still don't quiet get the way it works with the TPU.  It also appears to me as what may have been used instead of the current transistor-mosfet switching pulse idea. I'm wondering why you have not made one yet? There doesn't seam to be much cost to it.

   SM devices were pretty rough and simple, especially the first ones.  But they worked!  That's the point!  That's why we are in this thread.

  If anybody can duplicate (to the tee), an exact SM device as shown in any of the videos, to prove that they were Faked, please do so.

  Batteries, power lines, radio stations,   That's in the Fake TPU Thread.
  This is the Real TPU thread = "Understanding electricity in the TPU".
   The best way to stimulate action, is to say that it will never work.
                                                                                     NickZ
 
                                                                       

                             
   
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on August 01, 2010, 07:27:22 AM
@all

Magamp : first you need a saturable core , a AC source and a dc source .

You take the AC and connect one lead to two transformers the coils need to be in series and out of phase so the output reads 0 v , and connect the second coils of transformers to the DC with a potentiometer , the phase of the DC coil is also really important test all possibility , as you apply the DC the Ac will start to go trough ...

The load is connected between the AC lead .

You can do it without diode for less gain but that is called a saturable reactor , and with diode its a magamp .
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on August 01, 2010, 07:44:27 AM
In consideration of some recent discussion I was recalling what Bob Boyce had experienced in some of his toroid construction similar to SM's.  Bob knew of SM's work and found first hand some of the extreme danger of what may happen if everything is tuned 'exactly right on' rather than being off a little.  That was the experience of a lightning strike.  I believe this happened twice IIRC.  So are we to assume Boyce was also faking a lightning strike? 

   In checking back through one of Boyce's documents I also found some tidbits I think might be worth restating here.  These are all quotes right out of his work:

"While working as an engineer for a govt. subcontractor, I became aware of a problem with a switcher power supply, that under certain temperature and load conditions would go into over unity operation.
Sometimes these would fail in a big way and totally destroy the load. Way more damage than the power source to the power supply was capable of delivering. The power supply board used an onboard toroidal inductor, wound with Teflon insulated silver plated solid copper wire on Honeywell powdered iron cores.
--------------
I do not like to use ferrite or laminated iron cores. With the high permeability, they can only be used at very low frequencies and very lower power densities.
 
Yes, one of the "features" of this power source is that it seems to adapt to the load, within reason of course. Load impedance is fairly important to getting maximum output, due in part to the HF portion of the energy riding on the DC output. Momentary shorting of the output does result in a plasma-like discharge arc.
 
From what I can see, they do look to be very similar. The primary differences that I could see are core material and number of poles. It sounds and looks like SM used stranded copper wire and 4 poles, while I use powdered iron and 3 poles in my current device. Otherwise, both seem to build up a swirling electromagnetic vortex during operation.
----------------
 
I have used other core materials with varying degrees of success as well over the years. I started out with laminated iron cores on the 2 phase devices in the mid 80s, and progressed to air cores on the 3 phase devices in the early 90s. One of the first units I tried 3 phase on was a Seike "g-strain energy absorber" that I had connected to a hand wound 3 phase air core torus coil. Talk about uncontrolled operation! But I kept at it, unaware of the dangers. Since I was no longer doing the hydroxy gas research at that time, I was obsessed with trying to replicate Tesla and Moray research on a shoestring budget. After my lightning strike injury in 1995, I mothballed that line of research until I had the time, energy, and funds to continue. I refused to apply this 3 phase design to practical application until the control issue could be solved.
-------------
 
The material is important for a several reasons.:
 
  1. The material directly impacts the highest frequency that can be applied. 
  2. The higher the frequency used, the greater the energy density. 
  3. Since there are bias fields applied, we want a material that will not saturate. 
 
Laminated iron and ferrite fail all 3 of these criteria. Air cores require too much copper for a given frequency. The low permeability of a powdered iron mix is best. So the chosen mix plays a large role in how much copper you will have to wind on it. Since we don't want overlapped layers for any of the windings."
 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 01, 2010, 10:14:27 AM
"Gyroscope

A small heavy wheel or top rotated (usually electrically) at high speed in anti-friction bearings. Any alteration of the inclination of the axis rotation is resisted by a turning movement (gyrostatic moment). It is therefore used as a compass, as a controlling device in aircraft and torpedoes, and, in large sizes, as a ship's stabiliser.

Chamber's Technical Dictionary W. & R. Chambers, Ltd."

Correct me if I'm wrong but the essence of gyroscopic action is opposing to any force trying to change place when gyroscopic action occur so it appear like dynamic inertia.
I don't see how it can be faked with any motor inside TPU.Vibration sureley can be faked but not gyroscopic as I see it.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 01, 2010, 10:42:51 AM
giantkiller

I saw your videos.Very nice !

Almost as I thought
That rotation of field is something which makes DC but I think it is required because TPU is ground-less  and contains too little free electrons so they need to be treated harder then a lot of electrons from reall ground
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 01, 2010, 12:36:47 PM
"In other words in defense of Wattsup and Bolt, Bolt says we haven't done enuff, Wattsup say there is too much in the wrong direction."

GK your designs, knowledge, total commitment and thinking have led you on a journey. You have learn t a lot more then a TPU could ever teach you while at the same time learning all the ways NOT to build a TPU. In fact you recall only few weeks ago SM came up on the forum and he said to you "At last someone REALLY thinking never seen before in 10 years and getting so very close to making the TPU" He made some comment about a TPU/Don Smith hybrid.

Anyway the reason for the lightning strikes is because to make a 1000w device going to need about 10KVARS the electrostatic field will run out thousands of volts in circulation. The field of the TPU is extremely negative and can attracts a positive charge straight out of clear blue sky.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: FatBird on August 01, 2010, 04:16:01 PM
SUPER NICE Build GK, especially the Ferrite Toroid that AUTOMATICALLY knocks the "JUICE" back & forth between the windings.

However, I still think you are "deceived" LOL, thinking there are concentric, circular windings, because none of SM's videos show that.

Just trying to help out with my observations sir.
.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on August 01, 2010, 05:23:04 PM
Hello all,

@wattsup

with this useless reactive power and 24V or 12V from a power supply Im powering 3 oscillators, a 100W real bulb, my coils, feeding this back to the battery.....with this useless reactive power I charged last summer a 12V/45Ah car battery. The battery I bought a few days erlier and it was used only a few times with my coils. It was totally discharged because my coils needed a lot of current from this battery. So I wanted to try this reactive power to maybe charge the battery. Result: in around 10 minutes was the battery full charged. I could see the voltage rising and the current dropping. But. As it was a little bit a fast charging I have destroyed the battery.

So, dont say this reactive power is useless.

You have mentioned a lot of times the open TPU = OTPU.

I worked yesterday all the day long on this TPU. As I forgot how many turns the original has, I made 4 x 11 turns. Maybe to much turns?

Ever tried to pulse such a TPU? Ever tried what and how SM did it?

My results??

HA! Im alive, my MOSFETs are OK, my equipment is OK.....

And Im on a very nice vacation not to reach.

Otto

PS: almost forgot: in a OTPU is also a high voltage or in other words, there are also high speed particles!!
But no coil longer then 2 feet = 60 cm.

In short, Im using a combination of 12V and the reactive power.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 01, 2010, 07:17:14 PM
@bolt

I have the deepest regard for your opinion as I do every other member here. Please understand one thing. There is a big difference between a device that is totally faked and half-faked. I am using the word "fake" because it gets to the crux of the matter. I know I will have to repeat this many times before it sinks in given that we have been on this for several years now.

Tonight, if you discovered a method of producing continuous reactive power output that can be "re-condensed" enough to feed back to the circuit in a loop, and all you need to start it is a small 3vdc lithium computer battery (3LCB), but for all intents and purposes this energy production is not enough to produce any meaningful work but is enough to loop onto itself indefinitely, what would you do? In SMs case, he produced what I call today an FTPU. The FTPU truly portrayed what SM wanted to show. Continuous voltage production. That's all he discovered so in the FTPU video, that's all he showed. One small effect turned on itself to feed itself. This was a very important discovery indeed and I would be the last one to deny this. The point is though that SM got caught up in his greed for more money. You do not live in a $5000 per month mansion without having some level of urgency on where the next buck will come from. You have already established your credibility with the money guys so now it's only a question of how far you are willing to go to keep that money rolling in. This was SMs pattern of life since years prior. Doctor Phil says "the past actions will depict the future actions". So.....what else could we have expected.

Any time SM showed a voltage reading, he was showing a stabilized reactive power loop. Any time SM showed lighting bulbs, he showed direct battery power that could have also been pulsed to slow the battery depletion. At 50hz or more, you would not know it. The reactive power side could have also been used to create the battery side pulse. In the STPU and 6TPU I am now convinced he was now using DC bulbs that where pre-printed with the 100 watts rating and he used trafficked wall plugs with a bridge rectifier and resistor. He did all this because there was no other way for him to preserve his standing.

If SM was first hired by a government institution or university that gave him a steady good salary, no stress, no expectations, no expected monetary returns, no expected minimal power output levels, and providing him with all the equipment and assistance he needed, just do the R&D and see where it goes, then SM could have been the next Tesla. He blew it once he decided "now, how will this be profitable for me, me and me". As soon as he went with investors, SM was now a cooked goose. He wanted to both protect his "little" discovery and capitalize on it as much as possible. SM was not at the pinnacle of worldly altruism. It was him first, him always, him forever. Until the gavel fell and crushed his dreams. Now he is limited to a life of quasi-monastical seclusion. And that little discovery is now under a shit load of lies and deceits.

To understand the electricity in the TPU, I had to first strip off the layers of crap to get down to the real matter at hand, the real primal discovery that has been lost in all his fancy and masterful shuffling. That took a good two years of looking at his devices from all angles until one day it clicked. Not fake or real, but half fake and half real. Then the pieces started to fit.

If I have to repeat this 100 times, I will because my only "agenda" is to liberate you guys from the irrationalities of the SM TPU so you can concentrate on what really matters. I did not make the SM videos. I did not make the TPUs the way they are. I did not come on the forum to say all these SMnitudes. SM did. I only tested the many forms of the TPU and accumulated results and all say, reactive power. The coils say reactive power. The designs say reactive power with hidden batteries. The larger the unit, the more batteries.

Why did SM hire Jack Durban if he already had all the answers. Because he did not. SM knew he was using many batteries and he hired JD to see if he could come up with a way to use none, or at best, far less batteries. But that proved unsuccessful since SM had no choice but to keep the true reason of lighting them bulbs with batteries under his own control and knowing. Why the hell would you hire someone if you already have the answer? Does not make any sense at all except if you know the device is half-real and half-faked and you are looking for a way to shift the percentage more to the real side.

@otto

Do you realize that what you just said is exactly what I have been trying to explain here. Now keep the reactive power but replace your power supply with batteries in a lamp and you have an OTPU. I know already you are using a good 24 vdc and some good amperage in your tests to light those bulbs. But you are an honest camper and you openly say that you are using a power supply. SM is attributing all his videos to the Earth Magnetic field always saying "there is no battery capable of producing the effects you see here". But he makes us think he is running it at 121vdc when in reality he is running it at 24vdc or 12vdc and lighting DC bulbs. When you put that into a new equation, the 20 minutes limit that he put as an excuse of overheating becomes more explainable reality.

You are using your set-up as it is today to light those bulbs. But you are not happy with the results because you still need the power supply and you are comparing this to the SM TPU thinking SM is not using any power supply so how is that possible. So you continue to break your head to try and advance in this line of thinking. This is where the crime is occurring in what SM put forth. He is leaving us with all these lies and just letting us grapple with the advent of making a device that resembles his devices but in our case, ours has to work without batteries or a very small amount, when his devices were loaded with batteries all along, except the FTPU.

I hope I am not going to be banned from the forum because of what I am trying to explain to you guys.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 01, 2010, 09:18:05 PM
The distribution of charge carrying mass forms a lattice within the magnet.  The charge carriers have what is known as a virtual particle stream to support their state of charge.  When you move the charge carriers you alter the virtual particle streams and this change in the vps resisted by the mass of the free charge carriers in the conducting wire give rise to free electron motion.  Along with this motion is carried the charge which of course alters the vp flow wherever it goes.  If the electrons are caused to accumulate in a metal that sets up a high velocity current between a metal lacking electrons we have a condensed vps of high velocity.  Like anyother liquid an increase in velocity is accompanied by a decrease in pressure.  The casmir effect Aharanov Bohm effect  Teslas longitudinal electrostatic induced waves all point to a viscosity of the vacuum in other words there is something there that is sticky, It is not only sticky it is boundless.  The mathmatics of particle physics had to be normalized.  This created the vacuum.  The vacuum is the absence of particles so in their mathmatics dealing with force arise virtual particles.  In all reality it is a virtual liquid.  Maxwell recognized this included it in his math but Heaviside was all about getting something workable into the hands of engineers and electricians ASAP to get this electric age on the road and didnt really care about what Maxwell was saying.  There was no preoccupation with a dwindling supply of fuel at that time it was a matter of moving the fire to the edge of town and getting clean electricity into town.  Well the fire is still on the edge of town except for the oil burners scurrying to and fro stinking up the place. 

Thank you sparks.  It is refreshing to see a single person that actually "gets it", even if you do not saturate this thread with longwinded pointless posts and coils of wire that look pretty but do nothing.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 01, 2010, 09:26:25 PM
"Gyroscope

A small heavy wheel or top rotated (usually electrically) at high speed in anti-friction bearings. Any alteration of the inclination of the axis rotation is resisted by a turning movement (gyrostatic moment). It is therefore used as a compass, as a controlling device in aircraft and torpedoes, and, in large sizes, as a ship's stabiliser.

Chamber's Technical Dictionary W. & R. Chambers, Ltd."

Correct me if I'm wrong but the essence of gyroscopic action is opposing to any force trying to change place when gyroscopic action occur so it appear like dynamic inertia.
I don't see how it can be faked with any motor inside TPU.Vibration sureley can be faked but not gyroscopic as I see it.

That is because it isn't fake. 

Funny how the people posting the good stuff are ignored and the people posting crap are cheered and congratulated.

Take a look at the forces created in a gyroscope.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 01, 2010, 11:48:00 PM
"Tonight, if you discovered a method of producing continuous reactive power output that can be "re-condensed" enough to feed back to the circuit in a loop, and all you need to start it is a small 3vdc lithium computer battery (3LCB), but for all intents and purposes this energy production is not enough to produce any meaningful work but is enough to loop onto itself indefinitely, what would you do? "

You have no idea how close you are but you dismiss what you actually see. You have been taught reactive power is meaningless yet it IS THE GRAND MASTER KEY TO ALL THESE OU DEVICES!

OU becomes from energy transformation while OU = RF as a simile. The TPU is just a huge reactive power generator they are all the same. I don't care if it  a MEG or Kapandze or a TPU or a Joule Thief a Rotoverter 3 phase motor in RV mode.

Electricity is NOT electrons they get moved as a by product.  Its the very reason why volts and amps are able to lead or lag as they travel at different speed due to the mass. Even Don Smith spelled this out very carefully and quoted his devices in KVARS often 10KVARS or 100KVARS devices. Current is a byproduct of waste. Volts are joules potential,  See Newman motor he runs that iron beast on 30 odd volts of PP3 batteries.

Only mA required to move the Newman motor because reactive power translates to intense magnetic flux this the the electrostatic stress transformation. Without this non of these OU devices could exist or even be conceived.

You want proof? Fine take a normal transformer and load the O/p with a large series choke and a cap. Tune the inductor and or cap to create a perfect out of phase condition. The i/p power is almost zero amps apart from some leakage. Now put a 500 Watt lamp in series and the lamp will light. Re-tune the LC to correct for lamp impedance. The 500 watt lamp is now fully lit. THe volts drop accross the bulb is under 12 volts yet this is a 240 volt bulb.

The i/p watts is leakage in practice maybe 3 watts. The bulb is fully lit! HOW??? this experiment done hundreds of times. RE will power the bulb under standing wave condition. A standing wave condition is a Scaler Wave. The bulb work under water and you wont get a shock.  Tuning is a real pig you might have to spend half hour getting tuning perfect even moving  the lamp wire will knock it off tune but it works.

What you are seeing if you do this is Radiant Energy powers the bulb at Zero Point Nodes its the key to all these circuits. All they are doing is creating VARS yes even Bedini is power factor correcting the RE charge going into the battery.

Now at some point SM knew this one only has to read Tesla to understand you only have to create precursor conditions to tap radiant energy. Its no big deal its been done thousands of times. If you think SM would go out of his way and have 12 volt lamps re-stamped with 120 volts or modify lamp holders filled with batteries i'm sorry you wasted so many years and not once found that VARS create OU conditions.

Here is another example. Take a 3 phase motor 5hp motor its normal idle current is 6 amps at 120 volts.= 720 watts! In RV mode that motor will run on about 10 watts. Measure the reactive power. It has 1.5KVAR in circulation. The KVAR circulation is creating one hell of rotating magnetic field from the RE entering and powering the motor. Its NOT running on 10 watts that is the leakage current required to maintain resonance. Like the scaler light bulb its pure RE powering the motor.

The motor runs ICE cold sometimes frost will cover the case due to RE. YES i have seen this myself not ice as some have under critical conditions but covered in condensation and cold to touch.

If you want more examples let me know I  can show many many RE experiments.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on August 01, 2010, 11:48:48 PM
Hi wattsup,

I cannot recall which TPU was used when SM run the small television receiver on the table: at that occasion the batteries hidden in the TPU supplied the TV set?  MAybe for a few minutes they could...  Your opinion on this?

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 12:04:59 AM
Hi wattsup,

I cannot recall which TPU was used when SM run the small television receiver on the table: at that occasion the batteries hidden in the TPU supplied the TV set?  MAybe for a few minutes they could...  Your opinion on this?

Thanks,  Gyula

There is a training process OU researchers go thru.

1) is OU real or not maybe not but have an open mind

2) tried for 10 years so fk it, I cant do it so must be all a big scam

90% of people never move beyond this point................................................

3) One day you see something for yourself and you are now awakened and realize OU was there all along right under your nose

4) now no longer doubt OU in its many forms not just one, its only the method of extraction that requires advanced levels of fact finding and increased knowledge and finding ways to make it even better.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: gyulasun on August 02, 2010, 12:21:22 AM
...
You want proof? Fine take a normal transformer and load the O/p with a large series choke and a cap. Tune the inductor and or cap to create a perfect out of phase condition. The i/p power is almost zero amps apart from some leakage. Now put a 500 Watt lamp in series and the lamp will light. Re-tune the LC to correct for lamp impedance. The 500 watt lamp is now fully lit. THe volts drop accross the bulb is under 12 volts yet this is a 240 volt bulb.

The i/p watts is leakage in practice maybe 3 watts. The bulb is fully lit! HOW??? this experiment done hundreds of times. RE will power the bulb under standing wave condition. A standing wave condition is a Scaler Wave. The bulb work under water and you wont get a shock.  Tuning is a real pig you might have to spend half hour getting tuning perfect even moving  the lamp wire will knock it off tune but it works.

Hi Bolt,

I wonder what you describe above, can it be considered what is called in conventional el. engineering as a series LC transformation to a parallel LC by a matching network which is a transformer in this case?
Thus the impedance seen by the mains becomes high and the normal loading from the primary coil cannot take place towards the mains. And of course huge reactive current flows in the secondary coil and if you do this test with a 60W bulb, then you "ruin" the series LC circuit loaded Q with its much higher resistance. Is this involved here?

You would not get a shock from the 500W bulb because it would have only the 12V AC across it as you say and the transformer makes it safely ground independent from the mains...


Quote
If you want more examples let me know I  can show many many RE experiments.

Yes, please do describe some more if you can.

Thanks Gyula
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 01:14:44 AM
Hi Bolt,

I wonder what you describe above, can it be considered what is called in conventional el. engineering as a series LC transformation to a parallel LC by a matching network which is a transformer in this case?


Oh boy you are getting close. OU as a transformation is achieved using conventional RF engineering to create the desired effects.

This is why RF engineering is required to tap RE but an electrical engineer calls it power factor correction! Whats the difference? None only the frequency changes.

Lets take something simple........ Mmmm Joule Thief. Whats REALLY happening to make this pull RE and it does depending on build skills. The battery is pulsed into a bifilar coil which has unusual properties. The magnetic field created by one winding is therefore equal and opposite to that created by the other, resulting in an electrical flux field of zero (i.e., neutralizing any effects in the coil). In electrical terms, this means that the self-inductance of the coil is zero while the actual inductance can be seen as near infinite. The result is the pulses sent by the transistor end up seeing an infinite VSWR or electrical terms the Power Factor is ZERO. This allows the voltage to climb unhindered  as the current is now out of phase. This is NOT a transformer stepping up the voltage.

Now we have a condition of say 50 to 100 volts and 50mA in the tank as VARS. This creates an electrostatic field and the radiation is no longer hertzian but longitudinal. RE can only enter a system at the NODE points which is why is called Zero Point Energy. The ambient gains come about as the voltage increase is potential Joules all explained in Don Smith vids and papers. The tank acquires excess energy under these conditions and only requires some of it to be siphoned off WITHOUT breaking the resonant dipole.  How? Easy.. use RF book principles to match the load to the source.

This means if you just connect a lamp on here you kill the dipole so don't go just putting a diode on without RF matching. This is why some have realized by using transformer cores and matching the impedance alike IF transformers and tuning carefully to desired loads a COP>3 is quite easy to achieve. That said when you have just 100mW OU its such a small amount of power on the Joule  Thief its dead easy to LOSE this gain. So you can light up an LED for a week or Xmas tree light for few hours on one AA but what else of practical purpose? NOT MUCH you wont save the planet with this nor power your house!

 So the answer is scale up everything 1000 times bigger. Use a BIG coils, with a good drive of say 50 Watts. Get 10,000 VAR on the tank, really crank up the volts and make the coils scream. NOW you have a 1000 watts OU! and you wont miss-place it and measurements then become an In your Face reality.

Dr Stiffler is nothing more then a wideband RF oscillator feeding the o/p into an inductor to create a VSWR 1:100000 or trashed power factor. Transmission is now longitudinal and has some very unusual effects. First it generates some interesting powerful magnetic fields which allows COPIES for free. This is only a 500mW device can you imagine a 500 watt device with 25,000 VARs?

Hope you are just starting to see the bigger picture.:)

A bit more......

Don Smith started out with this a built the 5 coil tower he realized that one only needs to produce plenty of VAR's in one tank and the actual watts drive to do this may only be 10 or 20 watts. The power factor was trashed and he forced the VSWR to INFINITE to create voltages of 100KV with several AMPS in circulation.  WOT? How the fk did he do this? How can a 70 Watt NST transformer become 500KW. Well its easy when you know how:) This is how he claimed and quite rightly so his devices are rated at 500KW etc.

Very very few builders knew this they are all tuning to conventional RF thinking the coils will work at tuned in phase 20 Mhz or whatever WRONG!!!!!!!!

I tell you more later..

Its an electrostatic device where one TX will produce identical magnetic copies in the RX's
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 02, 2010, 04:44:41 AM
Interesting...
Quote
Its an electrostatic device where one TX will produce identical magnetic copies in the RX's
The assumption I had been working on is the electrostatic part. I have always thought that the simplest way to get this is a stun gun. The lower potential of this device needs a closer pole. The Tesla coil has the other pole at quite some distance. Correct? I had always seen the stun gun as a simple way to achieve this. Am I incorrect in this approach?
The reasoning is so: When the gun fires the shock is seen in other coils. If it is a tank it rings at that resonance. Therefore we have cheap copies. The ringing speed is your choice. When I saw the SM17 shoot sparks and knew Tesla did also I just put 2 and 2 together. But this connection happened so early in this TPU game I thought I couldn't possibly be correct per all the other posters. I just didn't have the explanation recently put forth here. I am a digital and software engineer. To implicate a stun gun threw me into left field as far as training goes. But the electrostatic stays stuck in my mind. Moaby told me 'no stun gun'.  So I dove into TTBrown. Lo and behold I did things to two houses I never thought possible. But... These things were disturbing and dangerous. So I look farther and deeper before trying too many other mind boggling escapades. The wife gets pissed when I blow shit up. I sit back and realize that is what I do and would like to perform further tests at a less catastrophic level.
When I did the copper and steel coil resonance and saw what that did I thought 'this is a micro engine'. Lets step it up with electrostatic configuration. The GFIs chatter in the house hit from behind. I thought 'WOW'. How do i transfer this to usable power if I can rock the grid?

So I would like to buy a vowel at this point because buying more parts or equipment only spells more trouble from where I sit.

I see the stun gun as an E core magamp.

In other words: I keep finding things out other than the TPU.
I gotta go play my guitar for a bit right now. Its safer...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on August 02, 2010, 08:17:56 AM
Let us not forget the genious of Tesla.  His power transmission scheme was pure genious at work. The mathmatics I present below comes from his simple device where he describes millions of horsepower stored in his tanks while the mains were only circulating thousands of horsepower.  A gain of a 1000.   Look upon a system circulating reactive energy as a time storage unit.  Say we can run a system at 1 megahertz and input 1 microwatt per cycle from some electric field.  At the end of 1 second we have stored in the tank 1 watt. With losses we are reduced to .6watts in the tank.  Every second we are storing up .6watts.  At the end of 24 hours we will have stored up 51.8 kw.  This will allow us to run a load of 2.15 kwperhour.  Or little under a three horsepower motor non stop.  While we are running this load we are adding to the tank so the tank never drops below 51.8kw stored.  Now if we just input 1watt directly into the load.  We would be running a 1watt lightbulb for 24 hours instead of a 3horsepower motor for 24 hours.  Sounds unbelievable but the reason this is possible is that the tank does not resist the input at all.  While the load resists the discharge of the tank.  Storing 52kw is crazy and dangerous and only used as an example.  You only need to store enough to take care of surge loads like inverter capacitors charging.  When SM powers up his tripplite it clicks on and off.  Obviously the discharged capacitors in the tripplite were overloading the capacity of the tpu.  Tesla tells us how to do it .  His generator is ringing his spark gap  the equivalent of two avalanche diodes in parallel.  When the tank capacity is greater than the generator capacity the energy gets kicked back into the generator. This is how he burnt out the one in colorado springs.    It was night time with minimal loads on the line in the town.  No place for the excess energy building up in the tank to go.  SM warns about it also.  You tune that tank dead on balls to the input frequency and the reactive energy power factor corrects you got yourself one big old problem.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: MACEDONIA CD on August 02, 2010, 12:05:06 PM
@sparks yes is true i thing but how what diode youwhill put in the circuits of nikola tesla ....  in your  1mhz one watt generator in to your tank .... <speed is energy  but .. how you whill tank all hat energy fromyou speed 1mhz generator THIS IS THE WORLD BIG MYSTERY ... WE KNOW THAT SPARK 
IF WE SOMEHOW ABLE TO BACK IN THE PAST AND ASK Nikola Tesla THEN WHILL BE KNOW HOW TO  MAKE if you turn auround and see is it immposilble ,LIKE FREE ENERGY  ::) ::) ::)       :( :( :(
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 01:31:43 PM
Let us not forget the genious of Tesla.  His power transmission scheme was pure genious at work. The mathmatics I present below comes from his simple device where he describes millions of horsepower stored in his tanks while the mains were only circulating thousands of horsepower.  A gain of a 1000.   Look upon a system circulating reactive energy as a time storage unit.  Say we can run a system at 1 megahertz and input 1 microwatt per cycle from some electric field.  At the end of 1 second we have stored in the tank 1 watt. With losses we are reduced to .6watts in the tank.  Every second we are storing up .6watts.  At the end of 24 hours we will have stored up 51.8 kw.  This will allow us to run a load of 2.15 kwperhour.  Or little under a three horsepower motor non stop.  While we are running this load we are adding to the tank so the tank never drops below 51.8kw stored.  Now if we just input 1watt directly into the load.  We would be running a 1watt lightbulb for 24 hours instead of a 3horsepower motor for 24 hours.  Sounds unbelievable but the reason this is possible is that the tank does not resist the input at all.  While the load resists the discharge of the tank.  Storing 52kw is crazy and dangerous and only used as an example.  You only need to store enough to take care of surge loads like inverter capacitors charging.  When SM powers up his tripplite it clicks on and off.  Obviously the discharged capacitors in the tripplite were overloading the capacity of the tpu.  Tesla tells us how to do it .  His generator is ringing his spark gap  the equivalent of two avalanche diodes in parallel.  When the tank capacity is greater than the generator capacity the energy gets kicked back into the generator. This is how he burnt out the one in colorado springs.    It was night time with minimal loads on the line in the town.  No place for the excess energy building up in the tank to go.  SM warns about it also.  You tune that tank dead on balls to the input frequency and the reactive energy power factor corrects you got yourself one big old problem.

Not quite but close enough. The entropy loss is 38.2% but the stochastic gain is 161.8% you can see even with a loss i can cover it with gains. So the bigger my slush fund (VAR Tank) the more i can take out of it while the % of the total remains very small. Typical conversion rates are 10%-20% of the VARS can be converted back to watts using standard RF conversion and matching practices is a good rule of thumb.

So i use RF principles to capture OU as RLC leads to overunity. In simplified format RE=RF because that is how you go about capturing it. RF application applies from 1Hz to 10 Thz it matters not the application and method remains the same. So you can see it doesn't matter if its a Newman motor running at 4Hz or HV electrostatic Air caps running at 5Ghz+ as casimir effect where the ambient wavelength is the width between the capacitor plates running RLC in high VARS as shown by Don Smith the ambient supplies the excess and i can take out what i need for FREE as it undergoes conversion from electrostatic to magnetic. Note the magnetic runs diametric to electrical flux. As part of the RLC tank i take requirements using either diametric Cap thru the L OR an L via the C to capture Radiant Energy.

Here is a T Bearden warning "Don't break the Dipole" if you want OU.

I talk about polarity later as RE captured is highly negative respect to real earth as it attracts a positive ambient charge. (lightning is positive charge at top of clouds.) The TPU warning is due to lightning strikes from clear blue skies.  You think this is BS then speak to Bob Boyce about it. Yes if you run your device as rotational magnetic flux using a PolyPhased VAR pump (TPU to you)  then watch out over 25KVAR!!! Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh fking BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your dead.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 01:53:31 PM
Still don't understand? read my posts its all there for long time OU is a commodity as real as water and air. You want a 10KW thing for you house fine send the money i make it for you.

Im so fked off when saboteurs run around debunking everything when we don't have an energy problem we are an iron ball flying thru space covered in tetra watts per square mile and covered in a huge magnetic flux nor even lack of information to build something.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 03:07:30 PM
That all sounds very good! It look like, you have all the knowledge to produce a working device, but I as understand you don't have the necessary equipments and parts.

I think that should be not a problem, if you really want to help, and spread the knowledge, here are many peoples who already have the necessary things, you just have to come clear, will you share, and help, or not.

Or am I wrong?

I tried for years lots of us have given away volumes for free. Nothing happens so only funding will change things. People moan they want OU but not prepared to make a small investment. I need 25k to fire up a lab and buy parts. Its NON negotiable and only no strings donation. 25k is dirt cheap its not even 3 months wages for a good RF engineer.

Quite a few wealthy people hang around here and do nothing they are only leaching to try and patent it which will lead to another multi million dollar fk up. You can't patent Gods Free Energy if you want to live. Many have died trying or the very least the wish they were dead after the MIB stripped them off all assets.

So i will give HUGE Hints but im not going to publish a full parts list with Rat shack part numbers, ready made PCB's just because too many lazy to try even if they have the money.

Then if you REALLY want it then send me the money. I will make it send you the device and open source everything. You get what you want I protect myself by open source.

No Underground secret labs, no NDA's for lame piece of shit like Orbo or Searl!!

It taken 10 years to develop the Joule Thief but in only in last few months has anyone tried to take it over 100mW! Now That Chinese guy seeking funding to increase it to 1000 watts but read his notes everything I said about VARS RF and OU is absolute true as he reports his real workshop findings!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 03:08:03 PM
.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 03:29:09 PM
I don't think so anyone will give you 25K " NON negotiable and only no strings donation" here, and honestly I don't really see, why is that necessary...

Maybe you are at the wrong place, if you seek money here for your researches.  ::)

Im not seeking,  im providing a solution. If you dont have angel sponsership status then fine it doesnt apply to you. You say its not necessary but nothing happened yet has it? Except Chinese got a little bit of funding and bench proven what i state is true but they also need more to get 1000 watts Joule Thief. Last i read they were up to around 50 watts OU COP>5.

 You know how many people brag and state "I give a million bucks for an OU device" Fine put your money where your mouth is and I only need 25k.

You know why? Because they WANT it ALL for themselves...greed, greed greed as usual. Anyway no point discussing this further anyone serious knows how to reach me via PM no big deal.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 03:49:18 PM
I don't see why are you different in that scene. From my viewpoint you except 25k from somebody, without any proof you can do it, what you claim, and you want the money as NO strings attached.  :o

Come on Bolt! Is that sound funny just for me?  :D

People make donations all the time except mostly goes to really stupid ideas like Save the Polar bears or The Sports and Arts foundation or what about the  Bill & Bush Clinton Haiti fund!! here you go $500,000 check!! Do they ask and see receipts for every cent spent? No of course not its a donation. Lucky they don't if sent to Bill Clinton cos none of it gone to Haiti:)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 02, 2010, 05:00:36 PM
Wow!  There is so much disinformation that I don't know where to start.

Joule Thief is not an OU device and it is impossible for a joule thief to create radiant electricity (RE).  JT's operate in well known electrical engineering parameters and none of it is abnormal, mysterious, or even that interesting.

SM stated that you could build a TPU with a few dollars (far less than $25k) and a couple hours of your time.  All it takes is knowledge of the coils and how they interact.  He never said you need a lab full of equipment.

Reactive power is not some sort of free energy source.  If all of the reactive power became real power you would still not have something for nothing.  There is no mechanism of gain there, only the misunderstanding of people who talk too much.

The following should be read by anyone thinking reactive power leads to OU:
http://www.energymanagertraining.com/announcements/EE08_result/C.Jayaraman(1).pdf

(The beer mug analogy is my favorite.)


Wattsup:

You mentioned that a magnet vibrates with any coil that is pulsed.  Next time you encounter this, try to determine if the strength and shape of the magnetic field changes.  It does change but you will have to determine in what way.  Do not assume that it is meerly an interaction between the magnetic field of the coil and the magnet.  If the coil is producing RE, then the interaction is different.  You may want to explore this from behind some sort of protective barrier since the magnet can come apart.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 02, 2010, 05:36:09 PM
sigma16

Interesting comment. I have always thought why Tesla spent so much time analysing hypothetical ring floating around Earth equator. I tend to visualize magnetosphere as a fluid and in fluid me can make various distortions or whirls....Once broken energy is released maybe at slower rate.
Something related to building a dam on river. RE looks to me like broken dam effect.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: FatBird on August 02, 2010, 06:35:11 PM
@ Bolt,   The motor runs ICE cold sometimes frost will cover the case due to RE. YES i have seen this myself not ice as some have under critical conditions but covered in condensation and cold to touch.

If you want more examples let me know I  can show many many RE experiments.

======================================================================

Thank you for the SUPER GOOD posts about RE stories, especially about Bob Boyce & Roto Verters.  Per your offer above to post more, please post more RE related stories.

Meanwhile, here are 2 stories I find very interesting:



Ron told me that when he was running his electric car his neighbors car had a bad battery and he removed one from his electric car and gave it to them. the alternator on the neighbors car went up in smoke after an hour of driving.  it was more than likely running at full field trying to charge the battery.

We did not use a motor and i believe that is the secret to getting it to self charge. Ron told me he ran his car for months without charging the batteries.

He also told me a strange story that after running the car for a few hours when setting at a stop light the other cars around him all stopped running.  he called it some sort of energy field he thought it was creating. he also told me that his neighbor could not get out of her mobile home one day when he had the motor running and the car in idle for a few hours in is driveway, she yelled for help and when he went to help her it was like walking through air as thick as sand and it took almost all his energy to get to her.  After that he stopped the project to think about what was happening.

=======================================================================

Imagine an electric machine having no electrical input itself and which, when started on no load by a drive motor and brought up to speed (3250 rpm), thereafter runs steadily at that speed with the motor drawing a little extra input power with a time delay rate of about two minutes.

The machine rotor has a mass of 800 gm and at that speed its kinetic energy together with that of the drive motor is no more than 15 joules, contrasting with the excess energy of 300 joules needed to satisfy the anomalous power surge [to spin up from rest].

Imagine further that when the motor, after running five minutes or more, is switched off and the machine is stopped, you can restart it in the same or opposite direction and find that it now has a memory in the sense that it will not now ask for that 300 joules of excess input. 30 joules will suffice provided that the time lapse between starting and restarting is no more than a minute or so.

This is not a transient heating phenomenon. At all times the bearing housings feel cool and any heating in the drive motor would imply an increase of resistance and a build-up of power to a higher steady state condition.

The experimental evidence is that there is something spinning of an ethereal nature co-extensive with the machine rotor. That 'something' has an effective mass density 20 times that of the rotor, but it is something that can spin independently and takes several minutes to decay, whereas the motor comes to rest in a few seconds.

Two machines of different rotor size and composition reveal the phenomenon and tests indicate variations with time of day and compass orientation of the spin axis. One machine, the one incorporating weaker magnets, showed evidence of gaining strength magnetically, as the tests were repeated over several days.

.







Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 06:45:09 PM
"Wow!  There is so much disinformation that I don't know where to start.

Joule Thief is not an OU device and it is impossible for a joule thief to create radiant electricity (RE).  JT's operate in well known electrical engineering parameters and none of it is abnormal, mysterious, or even that interesting.

SM stated that you could build a TPU with a few dollars (far less than $25k) and a couple hours of your time.  All it takes is knowledge of the coils and how they interact.  He never said you need a lab full of equipment.

Reactive power is not some sort of free energy source.  If all of the reactive power became real power you would still not have something for nothing.  There is no mechanism of gain there, only the misunderstanding of people who talk too much.

The following should be read by anyone thinking reactive power leads to OU:
http://www.energymanagertraining.com/announcements/EE08_result/C.Jayaraman(1).pdf

(The beer mug analogy is my favorite.)"


Joule Thief can be an OU device it puts out more then it requires to run it. I call that OU.  It doesn't MAKE RE it captures it and converts it....big difference!!!!!!!!!

Second did you see SM's lab? That is EASY 25k worth in todays money. Not just the lab equipment but parts too. I can order a little shopping list of parts and it will run up several K just filling up component racks. 25k is dirt cheap.

 Without a full RF lab it cant be done which is why not many kitchen table builders have got very far. He also said that unless you have like 20+ years EE/RF tech experience you probably wont even get close.... and he is right after 5+ years on here only 2 or 3 got very close but not quite close enough.

While its true the finished product may only cost 39.99 in parts the precise component makeup cost a bit more in R & D.

One only has to look at a cellphone to realize that cheap PAYG that cost 9.99 actually cost 25 years a few million man hours and $500,000,000,000,000 to get you that 9.99 cellphone.

Look here they are right on the money he knows exactly how reactive power creates REAL watts. I put my notes in here between his statements.

cut...
ltseung888

   Re: Pulsed DC Transformer with Embedded Magnets
« Reply #493 on: July 20, 2010, 12:33:46 AM »

    * Reply with quoteQuote

Improvement and Demonstration on July 19, 2010


We tried the three layer toroid.  The first attempt was to put the Joule Thief at the lowest layer and two transformer type windings as two top layers.  There were some improvements but the top most layer showed significant decrease in induced voltage.


We then put the Joule Thief as the middle layer.  To our greatest delight, the Output shot up.  The continuous Output Power was 56 watts.  The steady AC Output Voltage was 14 Volts even though we varied the load – resistors and LEDs.  The Input Power from the 1.1V AA battery was less than 0.4 watts.  That gave us a COP of greater than 160.

Load tank should be positioned in the Center of a VAR tank where joules potential converts more readily to amps as a center tap dipole. ..See Tesla transformer coupling papers. Read Don Smith.

It looked like we could get closer to resonance and extract much more lead-out energy with the new arrangement.  In a few days, our Output Power increased from a few watts to over 50 watts.  Our team is extremely optimistic in producing a 1KW lead-out energy device in the very near future. The following are a list of possible areas of further research.

1.   Size of the Toroid – Bigger appears to be better.  TRUE more aperature area for Radiant energy
2.   Number of turns of wire in the Toroid – More appears to be better. More wire in bifilar better chance of creating near perfect canceled flux and high reactive VAR values.
3.   Core material of the Toroid – No concrete data to show direction yet. Cores of higher permeability create more OU.
4.   The use of capacitors in the Joule Thief – appears to help 
5.   The transistors in the Joule Thief – the larger ones appear to help More drive the better.
6.   The LCR circuit in the Primary of the Joule Thief – tuning helps  Standard RF application leads to more OU
7.   The LCR circuit in the Secondary of the Joule Thief – tuning helps DITTO
8.   The LCR circuit in the Secondary of the Transformer – major factor CORRECT impedance matching as RF tuning to max high impedance to low impedance load.
9.   The number of turns of wire in the Secondary of the Transformer – important to connect the right way – mixing clockwise and anti-clockwise will lower output. Correct RE is polarized.
10.   The use of thin copper wire appears to be much better than the lamp wire. Only because more wire leads to greater inductance. The Q is  increased dramatically with thick windings.
11.   Use of Signal Generator instead of battery – can vary frequency.
12.   The lower the frequency, the higher the lead-out energy (results so far).
13.   Higher L and Higher C values appear to lead-out more energy. Increases VSWR and provides more VARS within device parameter.
14.   The Pulsing can either be AC or Pulsed DC. Pulsed DC should be slighty better.


15.   The present Joule Thief and Transformer arrangement appeared to have build-in feedback mechanism.

Device will work much better as CLASS C.
16.   The Output is capable of recharging batteries now.  We can already demonstrate Battery A recharging Battery B and vice versa.  A few (6 LED lights) could be on all the time.

Yep sounds simple enough.

The chance of our team producing a 1KW lead-out device for the poor countries within three months is excellent.  We want to share everything so that products can come out quickly to benefit the World.

Best of luck and you are on the right track!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 02, 2010, 07:20:08 PM
Not only are you alliterate (google that one), but you are also a total idiot.  JT has nothing to do with RE is any way shape or form.  It can not recieve it or make it or anything between.  JT is not OU and is impposible to make OU.  If you think it is OU, then you are a fool.

SM's lab was for audio work.  He just happened upon the effects that allow the TPU to work. 

Good luck with your JT.  Can't wait until yor magnets stop working...LOL!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on August 02, 2010, 07:41:46 PM
Did anyone looked at the type of waves the jt is outputting from the secondary ?

I remember Jeanna making a Hairpin circuit , at lower voltages and no spark gap ...
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
@FatBird
@ Bolt,   The motor runs ICE cold sometimes frost will cover the case due to RE. YES i have seen this myself not ice as some have under critical conditions but covered in condensation and cold to touch.

If you want more examples let me know I  can show many many RE experiments.

======================================================================

Thank you for the SUPER GOOD posts about RE stories, especially about Bob Boyce & Roto Verters.  Per your offer above to post more, please post more RE related stories.

Well the Truth stands on its own merits and those that wish to listen and learn will be enlightened and im still learning so i listen. The rest..well im not here to change those with their heads stuck up their ass. LOL

 Its a shame it looks like the Chinese are going to get an SS OU device very soon. Can you imagine the power they will have over the rest of the world when the stick two fingers up at the US and no more need for oil?? (not for energy anyway) The rest of us still living in the dark ages.

Meanwhile, here are 2 stories I find very interesting:



Ron told me that when he was running his electric car his neighbors car had a bad battery and he removed one from his electric car and gave it to them. the alternator on the neighbors car went up in smoke after an hour of driving.  it was more than likely running at full field trying to charge the battery.

We did not use a motor and i believe that is the secret to getting it to self charge. Ron told me he ran his car for months without charging the batteries.

You talking about Ron Brandt?? Sounds like it.

He also told me a strange story that after running the car for a few hours when setting at a stop light the other cars around him all stopped running.  he called it some sort of energy field he thought it was creating. he also told me that his neighbor could not get out of her mobile home one day when he had the motor running and the car in idle for a few hours in is driveway, she yelled for help and when he went to help her it was like walking through air as thick as sand and it took almost all his energy to get to her.  After that he stopped the project to think about what was happening.

I feel like that some mornings when i try to get out of bed LOL

I know a bit about this stuff but 99.99% of people here cant even grasp basic RE capture let alone the other "features" that come with it.  He must have gone over 100KVAR which creates time anomaly which actually spreads out like a very slow moving pond ripples. The warning signs are a purple haze starts around the device and batteries. It gets bigger and you don't really want to be inside it.:)

 When one starts messing with RE you enter a dimension where everything begins to slow down including light itself and gravity. It ISNT really but when he tried walking he was not actually in this 3D anymore. If someone was to watch him from outside some distance away he would be speed-ed up and running at much higher then normal speed but for him everything was condensed as a time compression wave.  The 2 mins of his activity to get out of the car and get to her door was energy compression where both time and gravity were compressed from 20 mins to 2 mins. To him everything would have felt REALLY slow and heavy as hell in his time he would have struggled and it took him 20 mins of his time to reach her.  No wonder he stopped his experiments think i would too. Leaving his car running for hours would have built up a nice portal.

This is the basis of UFO. Due to the RE propulsion systems inside they are not operating in our dimension. When they make a right hand turn if you are on board the turn is really slow like a boat. Out side the turn is made 90 degrees at 10,000 MPH.  Time and gravity are only relative.

This goes back to Philadelphia experiment where people were teleported yards away and their own body mass actually became part of the local time and physical fabric. Arms and legs were embedded in the ships steel hull.

The TPU is not just a free energy device its MUCH MUCH more to do with anti gravity and time compression. I don't disbelieve SM when he said all hell will break if it falls in the wrong hands and they know how to invoke some more features.

=======================================================================

Imagine an electric machine having no electrical input itself and which, when started on no load by a drive motor and brought up to speed (3250 rpm), thereafter runs steadily at that speed with the motor drawing a little extra input power with a time delay rate of about two minutes.

The machine rotor has a mass of 800 gm and at that speed its kinetic energy together with that of the drive motor is no more than 15 joules, contrasting with the excess energy of 300 joules needed to satisfy the anomalous power surge [to spin up from rest].

Imagine further that when the motor, after running five minutes or more, is switched off and the machine is stopped, you can restart it in the same or opposite direction and find that it now has a memory in the sense that it will not now ask for that 300 joules of excess input. 30 joules will suffice provided that the time lapse between starting and restarting is no more than a minute or so.

This is not a transient heating phenomenon. At all times the bearing housings feel cool and any heating in the drive motor would imply an increase of resistance and a build-up of power to a higher steady state condition.

Yes because the motor was running in zero point resonance and collecting RE. It creates a real depression very much like a tornado funnel. 3 phase motors will do this very easy as they create a rotational magnetic field under the right conditions.

The experimental evidence is that there is something spinning of an ethereal nature co-extensive with the machine rotor. That 'something' has an effective mass density 20 times that of the rotor, but it is something that can spin independently and takes several minutes to decay, whereas the motor comes to rest in a few seconds.

Two machines of different rotor size and composition reveal the phenomenon and tests indicate variations with time of day and compass orientation of the spin axis. One machine, the one incorporating weaker magnets, showed evidence of gaining strength magnetically, as the tests were repeated over several days.

I know someone that runs his house on OU device but he says he has to keep it low power. Already magnetic standing scaler wave has expanded from his house some 300 yards.  The more you  ask for the more you get there is no limit to the energy on tap and yes it does have a memory effect.:)

No its not the X-Files :)

.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Omnibus on August 02, 2010, 08:51:18 PM
@poynt99,

I'm posting this here because I found out by chance that you're participating in this thread. I was very impressed by your modeling of eOrbo E-t curves but I wasn't able to participate in the discussion because I'm banned from that forum. Recently I had carried out some experiments which I posted in the Steorn thread here and finally I was able to pinpoint the real cause of the OU in electrical systems. At that, it was found that OU is inherent in the electrical phenomena under certain conditions. Same thing was established regarding the so-called 'cold fusion' in electrochemical systems. These two findings, together with the conclusive determination that the magnetic propulsor produces excess energy are the firm foundation to conclusively reject, based on rigorous scientific basis, the universality of the principle of energy conservation. We've been discussing this with some very worthy individuals such as @Omega_0, @teslaalset, @gyulasun, @broli etc. but I always felt your presence in these discussion was sorely missed. Now, I see the efforts by Rosemary Ainslie, efforts I haven't been aware of, as well as the studies in this thread and several other important threads. It seems to me all these efforts should be consolidated so that we can sift the wheat from the chaff and have all these efforts finally set on a proper scientific basis with the aim to become part of mainstream science. I'd be much interested in hearing your take on that.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 09:02:14 PM
@poynt99,

I'm posting this here because I found out by chance that you're participating in this thread. I was very impressed by your modeling of eOrbo E-t curves but I wasn't able to participate in the discussion because I'm banned from that forum. Recently I had carried out some experiments which I posted in the Steorn thread here and finally I was able to pinpoint the real cause of the OU in electrical systems. At that, it was found that OU is inherent in the electrical phenomena under certain conditions. Same thing was established regarding the so-called 'cold fusion' in electrochemical systems. These two findings, together with the conclusive determination that the magnetic propulsor produces excess energy are the firm foundation to conclusively reject, based on rigorous scientific basis, the universality of the principle of energy conservation. We've been discussing this with some very worthy individuals such as @Omega_0, @teslaalset, @gyulasun, @broli etc. but I always felt your presence in these discussion was sorely missed. Now, I see the efforts by Rosemary Ainslie, efforts I haven't been aware of, as well as the studies in this thread and several other important threads. It seems to me all these efforts should be consolidated so that we can sift the wheat from the chaff and have all these efforts finally set on a proper scientific basis with the aim to become part of mainstream science. I'd be much interested in hearing your take on that.

"At that, it was found that OU is inherent in the electrical phenomena under certain conditions. Same thing was established regarding the so-called 'cold fusion' in electrochemical systems."

Well i been trying to say this for years but you are wasting your time here its like talking to the Muppet Show! Hahaha. 


If you want the conditions i make it really condensed version.

OU = RF under RLC. Gain is 161.8% stochastic. You only need to cover entropy loss to see the gains and don't be greedy there is plenty left for looping:)

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 02, 2010, 09:17:48 PM
Bolt,

Everything you posted is "hearsay".  No valid tests.  No proof.  To make matters even worse, most of the people with a device they can not explain, have no freakin' idea how it works, make eronious measurments, and saturate the entire realm of alternative energy with their BS.  You are correct that greed factors in, but so does lack of understanding.  At least the men that made the MRA had the sense to have it tested and it was invalidated by Puthoff's group.  Where is the VTA now?  What about Grey's tube?  Moray's tube? Let's not leave out Bearden's MEG, Gunderson's ring, and Thane Heins' motor.  If RE is so easy then then there should be new devices all around us, but they aren't because no one that understands it is talking about it.  Everyone who is talking about it is repeating all the BS that everyone else already thought up to sell videos, books, and worthless plans.

Put a magnet in an RE field like I told wattsup to do and you will quickly find out that you don't know squat.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 02, 2010, 09:21:03 PM
"At that, it was found that OU is inherent in the electrical phenomena under certain conditions. Same thing was established regarding the so-called 'cold fusion' in electrochemical systems."

Well i been trying to say this for years but you are wasting your time here its like talking to the Muppet Show! Hahaha. 


If you want the conditions i make it really condensed version.

OU = RF under RLC. Gain is 161.8% stochastic. You only need to cover entropy loss to see the gains and don't be greedy there is plenty left for looping:)

The gain can easily be over 1:1000

You should know that Mr. "RE" Xpert
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Omnibus on August 02, 2010, 09:31:56 PM
"At that, it was found that OU is inherent in the electrical phenomena under certain conditions. Same thing was established regarding the so-called 'cold fusion' in electrochemical systems."

Well i been trying to say this for years but you are wasting your time here its like talking to the Muppet Show! Hahaha. 


If you want the conditions i make it really condensed version.

OU = RF under RLC. Gain is 161.8% stochastic. You only need to cover entropy loss to see the gains and don't be greedy there is plenty left for looping:)

That's interesting. Do you have anything written that sums up the idea?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Omnibus on August 02, 2010, 09:35:35 PM
@sigma16,

Quote
If RE is so easy then then there should be new devices all around us, but they aren't because no one that understands it is talking about it.

This isn't a scientific argument.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 02, 2010, 10:25:35 PM
@sigma16,

This isn't a scientific argument.

Is there a point to the comments you have selected to comment on?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Omnibus on August 02, 2010, 10:50:56 PM
@sigma16,

If you want to see the point I'm making, read the whole citation:

Quote
If RE is so easy then then there should be new devices all around us, but they aren't because no one that understands it is talking about it.

The fact that there are no new devices around us isn't a scientific argument proving that the phenomenon such devices are supposed to be based on is not a real phenomenon. There are no devices around us based on Compton effect or Davisson-Germer effect to name a few and yet these are real phenomena. Utilitarianism, the need to see devices in stores or have them at home to cut your utility bills, can never qualify as a scientific argument serving to prove as to whether or not a phenomenon is real.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Trastos on August 02, 2010, 11:04:55 PM
Hi Sparks,

You might like the open source solar vehicles on this site.
http://www.solarvehicles.org/

The designer, Jeff Dekzty, has great enthusiasm for his designs.

WTF?
http://biomod.multiply.com/photos/album/131/Mag_Amp_Gen_I_-_IV

WTF again but in video?
http://biomod.multiply.com/video/item/17/Mag_Amp_Gen_W1

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 02, 2010, 11:13:57 PM
@sigma16,

If you want to see the point I'm making, read the whole citation:

The fact that there are no new devices around us isn't a scientific argument proving that the phenomenon such devices are supposed to be based on is not a real phenomenon. There are no devices around us based on Compton effect or Davisson-Germer effect to name a few and yet these are real phenomena. Utilitarianism, the need to see devices in stores or have them at home to cut your utility bills, can never qualify as a scientific argument serving to prove as to whether or not a phenomenon is real.

Omnibus it doesn't matter what you provide as citation they just ignore anything of value just because its beyond their comprehension. I laid out several RE OU experiments using off the shelf devices but it means nothing. They wont believe it till its on the shelf in Walmart.

I personally know of looped free running motors and i seen enough myself to know Radiant energy is a real as water and air. Its not the lack of information that is the problem its mindset and the ability for those that can be bothered to actually try for themselves basic experiments. I already posted plenty.

I see you mentioned chemical OU reactions alike endothermic. Maybe you like to look into Atomic Hydrogen as cold fusion process where diatomic H2 is "lifted" by HV charge to a highly reactive state of hydrogen. When its allowed to "burn" in the absence of oxygen it decomposes back to diatomic H2 and releases an enormous amount of energy.  The process is >COP 15

The H2 is then simply looped through scrubbers reused as closed loop gas system like a freezer. However the process is very much open loop process for ambient energy extraction.

There is no need to make electrolysis for cars and make fresh HHO.  H2 is loop-able and so a few liters of gas will last for thousands of miles.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 02, 2010, 11:42:54 PM
@sigma16,

If you want to see the point I'm making, read the whole citation:

The fact that there are no new devices around us isn't a scientific argument proving that the phenomenon such devices are supposed to be based on is not a real phenomenon. There are no devices around us based on Compton effect or Davisson-Germer effect to name a few and yet these are real phenomena. Utilitarianism, the need to see devices in stores or have them at home to cut your utility bills, can never qualify as a scientific argument serving to prove as to whether or not a phenomenon is real.

You misinterpreted my statement because you felt like jumping into the middle of the fray without bothering the read the entire exchange.  I know it is real, and on that point, bolt and I agree.

What is the Davisson-Germer "effect"?  They performed an experiment that showed the wave nature of electrons. 


I laid out several RE OU experiments using off the shelf devices but it means nothing.

Describe one of these experiments.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 02, 2010, 11:48:08 PM
@Trastos,
This looks like BEMF harvesting using a magamp type pickups.
I emailed the guy for the opensource schematic. We'll see if he responds.

@All,
For what it is worth I am reading all this and then pursuing the previous posts mentioned.

I dare not say more for fear of becoming techno-chibble. Goes good with beer.

Let me throw this in as a question. When I did the three frequency audio test Bolt laid out and when the house was rocking I could feel the harmonic waves sloshing back and forth. I interpreted this as the same fedback loop that the rotovertor feels but in a different media. Could this be right? With this 3 freq device I can feel jumbling going on in the body which leads to sickness. If I do this in magnetic fields is this the quantum pressure that leads to RE?


WTF?
http://biomod.multiply.com/photos/album/131/Mag_Amp_Gen_I_-_IV

WTF again but in video?
http://biomod.multiply.com/video/item/17/Mag_Amp_Gen_W1
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Omnibus on August 02, 2010, 11:51:33 PM
@bolt,

Quote
I personally know of looped free running motors

Who's done that? Care to post a link? Also, that business with the HV H2, where's the evidence?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 12:09:27 AM
@bolt,

Who's done that? Care to post a link? Also, that business with the HV H2, where's the evidence?

Hey aren't you the "omnibus" that thought he had an OU transformer and it turned out to be measurement error?

Wasn't there a good lesson about "parallel capacitance between the windings"?

Yet you talk of being "scientific".
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 12:10:19 AM
"Where is the VTA now?  What about Grey's tube?  Moray's tube? Let's not leave out Bearden's MEG, Gunderson's ring, and Thane Heins' motor.  If RE is so easy then then there should be new devices all around us, but they aren't because no one that understands it is talking about it.  Everyone who is talking about it is repeating all the BS that everyone else already thought up to sell videos, books, and worthless plans.

Put a magnet in an RE field like I told wattsup to do and you will quickly find out that you don't know squat."

You know what happened to Sweet VTA it worked seen by many people at his house even John Bedini was there and the vid is on Google Vids. Sweet went to the US government with his device they were not interested. He pushed them more and got a warning letter. He pushed them more and the MIB came round and threatened him. His device absolutely worked no doubt about it. Some say and this IS hearsay they Sweet died due to something that caused him to get an extremely rare fast growing brain cancer because Sweet threatened to go public.

The "tubes" work splitting the positive etc and extracting RE has been replicated many times. Most recently a guy in the Philippines has a prototype car running off the patent. The MEG works but its too expensive to replicate due to special materials and the low power o/p All the special magnet motors end up in museums and mothballed as they cost 100k+ in special machine parts. No one will take the chance anymore with special motors.

Thane never had OU device that really is a fk up. He never showed properly the i/p readings to his DC grinder motor. What really happened was his high voltage coil went into a high VAR condition which allowed the current to go out of phase when it hit around 2000 rpm.  With no in phase coil current there is no LENS, you only have a lugging LENS issue with in phase current. The answer is easy. Put the amps out of phase - no more lugging. Not just me suggesting this cited in dozens of patents. So with no drag his motor speeded up. Thane thought his motor was going OU. Basically all the hardware to divert the flux path was complete nonsense.

While the coil started to produce OU within itself and he did get some nice meter o/p readings it was never enough to cover the unknown i/p , motor power. NOW had he used a 3 phase motor running in RV mode using just 10 watts and measured so we can all see the i/p and THEN use HV coils as high impedance reactive mode to null out the LENS then he just might have got an OU motor running.

I'm all ears you got interesting info on magnets in RE field then I'm listening!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 12:15:56 AM
@bolt,

Who's done that? Care to post a link? Also, that business with the HV H2, where's the evidence?

I cant discuss the motors its private email these people don't want to go public. They are happy running their lights for free. Last person who went public looping motors had has house and lab/workshop burnt down after being hit by a rocket from a black helicopter. Yes this was in the US 3 and 1/2 year ago.

For Atomic Hydrogen start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_hydrogen_welding

here

http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/AtomicH/atomicH.html

and here

http://www.cheniere.org/misc/a_h%20reaction.htm
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 12:18:42 AM
@Trastos,
This looks like BEMF harvesting using a magamp type pickups.
I emailed the guy for the opensource schematic. We'll see if he responds.

@All,
For what it is worth I am reading all this and then pursuing the previous posts mentioned.

I dare not say more for fear of becoming techno-chibble. Goes good with beer.

Let me throw this in as a question. When I did the three frequency audio test Bolt laid out and when the house was rocking I could feel the harmonic waves sloshing back and forth. I interpreted this as the same fedback loop that the rotovertor feels but in a different media. Could this be right? With this 3 freq device I can feel jumbling going on in the body which leads to sickness. If I do this in magnetic fields is this the quantum pressure that leads to RE?

Let me put it this way when Tesla did the same thing he shook his entire aprt building the neighbors run out in the street and Tesla told them it must have been an earthquake. LOL
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 12:30:48 AM
Thanks Bolt,

So let me add this then:
When I did the steel and copper resonance build the only thing I can think of is the Rotovertor. 2 bifilar coils sittng at 90 degrees to each with 43khz in, ramping up  and then 12MGHz out looks like harmonic ringing on its own. 2 devices singing back and forth.
Don't want to detract from current thread.

Anybody answer me this then. RE appears when the pressure builds from the harmonic ringing and it depends on the platform used(like electronic). Else disassociation, cracking, vibration appears in hard matter. Pipe organs sing.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 12:32:17 AM
Hello Chef,

Hendershot rocks!  ;D

Have you compared the field structure of the Hendershot generator with those of the Spherics Tetrahedral TPU?

Both are described with the term: "Ether Vortex Generator" or something along those lines.  The tetra is probably much easier to replicate as the effects are directly produced.  Based on all the tales of tuning the Hendrshot coil, I'd guess that it is difficult to get the effect reliably.

I'll have to give the Hendershot a go, get rid of the basket weave coil and use artificial fields.

The capacitors are pure genius.  Do you see?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 12:36:18 AM
Or set your fields at angles to each other. The Rodin coil has many, many nodes like this.

Hello Chef,

Have you compared the field structure of the Hendershot generator with those of the Spherics Tetrahedral TPU?

Both are described with the term: "Ether Vortex Generator" or something along those lines.  The tetra is probably much easier to replicate as the effects are directly produced.  Based on all the tales of tuning the Hendrshot coil, I'd guess that it is difficult to get the effect reliably.

I'll have to give the Hendershot a go, get rid of the basket weave coil and use artificial fields.

The capacitors are pure genius.  Do you see?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 12:53:38 AM
Thanks Bolt,

So let me add this then:
When I did the steel and copper resonance build the only thing I can think of is the Rotovertor. 2 bifilar coils sittng at 90 degrees to each with 43khz in, ramping up  and then 12MGHz out looks like harmonic ringing on its own. 2 devices singing back and forth.
Don't want to detract from current thread.

Anybody answer me this then. RE appears when the pressure builds from the harmonic ringing and it depends on the platform used(like electronic). Else disassociation, cracking, vibration appears in hard matter. Pipe organs sing.

Yes its all resonance i cant explain precisely how it works in materials that is more Keely work and i don't fully understand it to give any more then a passing comment but in electrical modes i am more familiar. You can use a Hendershot device which is just 2 coils and caps as an oscillator again it all about taking  the source converting it out of phase. Ramp up the VARS to a really high level then impedance match the tanks to the load source with careful tuning. Hendershot would take up to 30 mins sometimes messing about tuning it was a very unstable device. It had NOTHING to do with special basket weave coils or a magic doorbell buzzer.

Im sure you read a lot more about Keely then i have but i know water goes unstable and can literally explode if you hit the 3 magic spot frequencies. The guy in OZ i think has a Keely water heater uses a piezo to generate like 25Khz and the water boils using just around 15 watts in a cup. Then there is our beloved Mr Thrapp he has one too that boils gallons off a 9 volt battery but im told he did this using hidden microwaves from the next room.

My answer to that is it would take at least 8 microwave magnotrons pointing on that copper ball would send 8Kw bouncing all over the house and everyone in that room and maybe the house would have had eyeballs bursting and blood pouring out of their ears. So who knows about that thing.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 01:08:33 AM
You know what happened to Sweet VTA it worked seen by many people at his house even John Bedini was there and the vid is on Google Vids. Sweet went to the US government with his device they were not interested. He pushed them more and got a warning letter. He pushed them more and the MIB came round and threatened him. His device absolutely worked no doubt about it. Some say and this IS hearsay they Sweet died due to something that caused him to get an extremely rare fast growing brain cancer because Sweet threatened to go public.

I'm all ears you got interesting info on magnets in RE field then I'm listening!

VTA was suspected by some to be "very out of balance".  Perhaps this resulted in his cancer.

You will have to explore RE and magnets yourself.  Get your hands dirty.  It is too easy to say things and then everyone else say other things and all is lost in pages of talk.  Google it forever and you will not find the answer either, so don't waste your time.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 01:34:07 AM
VTA was suspected by some to be "very out of balance".  Perhaps this resulted in his cancer.

You will have to explore RE and magnets yourself.  Get your hands dirty.  It is too easy to say things and then everyone else say other things and all is lost in pages of talk.  Google it forever and you will not find the answer either, so don't waste your time.

Well you got about 17 posts to your name and you turn up here without putting anything on the table. So far as i looked at your posts you give away nothing but only criticize and seemingly  you have all the answers on how a TPU works.  Maybe you do BUT you have to build up some credibility first otherwise you will end up in the category of a TROLL and their is plenty of those around these parts which have over 500 post but share NOTHING.

Im am fully aware about RE creating powerful magnetic fields  as one can see this in the Newman motor or RV motor to which i do have hands on. There are many methods of capturing RE including magnetic modulation and bloch wall shifting is more brute force attack of modulation but it works. its the basis of FLYNN and MEG where it takes only a tiny voltage to divert or shift the flux but the full force of the magnets comes thumping back providing real joules for free after the trigger has been disconnected. Many motors use this concept but its not required to go out and spend 100k machining a special motor. It works MUCH better solid state.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 03, 2010, 01:49:03 AM
@sigma16

Welcome to the forum. hic hic

I never said the reactive power is OU. All I said was "at most" SM discovered a method of looping "re-condensed" (stepped-down) reactive power back to its source so you can indefinitely maintain a voltage reading on your volt meter on one side for his demo units. The other side of his units where brute battery driven and "possibly" pulsed for minimal power consumption.

If RE produces cold electricity, then the heating up of the TPU shows it was not RE. I don't know enough about it to say any more besides the RE (I think it was RE) I was working with in my one wire Pulsing Coils videos.

Regarding the magnet/coil/gyro effect. Yes any pulsed-coil/magnet will produce a vibration and I have already tested it that you will feel it in your hands but only up to around 800 hertz, regardless if you change the duty/voltage. After that you will never feel it nor will it create any quasi sensation of gyrations. It is all one more smoke screen from SM.

Magnet near pulsed coil below 800hz = Hand felt vibrations
So what is the story of 5000hertz - vibrations no way - noise for sure - gyrations no way.
At 800hz or below, can you produce RE. I doubt it. But you can produce reactive power at any hertz with undamped waves. lol
Short vibrations of a non-anchored mass (TPU in your hands) = quasi gyro effect - Hmmmmmmmm - maybe.
Any more then that and we are talking voodoo effects that are totally irrelevant.

About your other idea of testing the magnet/coil field effect, I would have to have some time to do it but in my book, the coil would have to be much stronger to cause any real shift of the magnetic field whereas it does not have to be that strong to cause a vibration. Also reading the coil field with a compass when a magnet is placed near the coil is practically impossible to see the finer movements. So that would be a very hard thing to confirm or not. Also, regarding pulsing at RE you would have to provide some specific parameters to start by.

@all

Geez, lot's of posts going everywhere but where it was. So we slack off a bit and get back to it later. No hurry. You guys already get the point. Please keep the lingo civilized (@sigma16 hint hint).

@bolt

Have you ever seen anyone give someone 25k without any strings attached. Ask your local Shylok, he'll inform you about strings, or ropes or casts. Sorry but I don't have that kind of cash laying around. What you need to do is prepare a R&D plan and offer it to those that may have the means to help you out. Such persons usually meet on monthly or bi-monthly basis with their counterparts to review potential "giveaways". There should be a few in your area.

Regarding changing Thanes grinder motor for an RV at 10 watts, there is no way that would work. I have done RV tests galore and it cost me dearly. I have also done other motor tests with gear that cost in the 15 grand level. Also no way. The RV won't work with Thane because at 10 watts there is ZERO torque, and since the magnets are on the outer edge of the rotor where leverage is the greatest, any coil resistance will be amplified and the RV will just seize. Been there, done that.

Also, just because you can come up with some pretty nice ideas on OU production, it does not mean SM did. Guys here have received perfectly directly related explanation of how SM does his demos and all we read are ideas on OU, thinking that since an idea is plausible, it means SM is real. Means nothing. Of course, no one wants to admit that SM has given us a good wanking around. But we asked for it. We let down our guard and built SM up to hero status. We have also coined many phrases against anyone that tried to see through the idolatry. But given such concrete and pragmatic proof, we now have to take a serious look at ourselves and get real with this TPU business.

The immediate challenge is very simple. Create any energy loop that can light up a small LED. Just an LED, nothing more. That is the starting point. lol

If you can post a few places on this forum where you have given experiments, please do and I will see what is possible on my end, but I can't make any promises. I am sure others here would be interested in knowing about them.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Omnibus on August 03, 2010, 01:54:55 AM
Hey aren't you the "omnibus" that thought he had an OU transformer and it turned out to be measurement error?

Wasn't there a good lesson about "parallel capacitance between the windings"?

Yet you talk of being "scientific".

You obviously have missed my further experiments and analysis. Not only the transformer but even a simple RC circuit is an OU system under certain conditions. No measurement errors. Overunity is inherent in electrical circuits when the conditions are right. Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 01:58:04 AM
Well you got about 17 posts to your name and you turn up here without putting anything on the table. So far as i looked at your posts you give away nothing but only criticize and seemingly  you have all the answers on how a TPU works.  Maybe you do BUT you have to build up some credibility first otherwise you will end up in the category of a TROLL and their is plenty of those around these parts which have over 500 post but share NOTHING.

Im am fully aware about RE creating powerful magnetic fields  as one can see this in the Newman motor or RV motor to which i do have hands on. There are many methods of capturing RE including magnetic modulation and bloch wall shifting is more brute force attack of modulation but it works. its the basis of FLYNN and MEG where it takes only a tiny voltage to divert or shift the flux but the full force of the magnets comes thumping back providing real joules for free after the trigger has been disconnected. Many motors use this concept but its not required to go out and spend 100k machining a special motor. It works MUCH better solid state.

So, you are afraid to get yor hands dirty.  Probably have never wound a single coil in your entire life.  You go around posting endless rants about the work of others and your interpretations of it, but never do any work yourself.  You stated several times that you can build a working TPU if provided with $25K for a lab.  If you know so much about the TPU's then maybe you can tell us how they are wound.  They are not all the same.

Have you ever built anything that works?  Like a model or birdhouse?  I just want to know if you can follow directions.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 02:04:25 AM
If RE produces cold electricity, then the heating up of the TPU shows it was not RE. I don't know enough about it to say any more besides the RE (I think it was RE) I was working with in my one wire Pulsing Coils videos.

Regarding the magnet/coil/gyro effect. Yes any pulsed-coil/magnet will produce a vibration and I have already tested it that you will feel it in your hands but only up to around 800 hertz, regardless if you change the duty/voltage. After that you will never feel it nor will it create any quasi sensation of gyrations. It is all one more smoke screen from SM.

Magnet near pulsed coil below 800hz = Hand felt vibrations
So what is the story of 5000hertz - vibrations no way - noise for sure - gyrations no way.
At 800hz or below, can you produce RE. I doubt it. But you can produce reactive power at any hertz with undamped waves. lol
Short vibrations of a non-anchored mass (TPU in your hands) = quasi gyro effect - Hmmmmmmmm - maybe.
Any more then that and we are talking voodoo effects that are totally irrelevant.

About your other idea of testing the magnet/coil field effect, I would have to have some time to do it but in my book, the coil would have to be much stronger to cause any real shift of the magnetic field whereas it does not have to be that strong to cause a vibration. Also reading the coil field with a compass when a magnet is placed near the coil is practically impossible to see the finer movements. So that would be a very hard thing to confirm or not. Also, regarding pulsing at RE you would have to provide some specific parameters to start by.

Doesn't sound like you had RE, so the rest is mute.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 03:24:48 AM
@sigma16

Welcome to the forum. hic hic

I never said the reactive power is OU. All I said was "at most" SM discovered a method of looping "re-condensed" (stepped-down) reactive power back to its source so you can indefinitely maintain a voltage reading on your volt meter on one side for his demo units. The other side of his units where brute battery driven and "possibly" pulsed for minimal power consumption.

If RE produces cold electricity, then the heating up of the TPU shows it was not RE. I don't know enough about it to say any more besides the RE (I think it was RE) I was working with in my one wire Pulsing Coils videos.

Wrong the TPU heated up not because of the RE but due to the rotating magnetic field induced eddy currents.  Eddy currents will form in aluminum or copper wire at very high speeds mag fields.


Regarding the magnet/coil/gyro effect. Yes any pulsed-coil/magnet will produce a vibration and I have already tested it that you will feel it in your hands but only up to around 800 hertz, regardless if you change the duty/voltage. After that you will never feel it nor will it create any quasi sensation of gyrations. It is all one more smoke screen from SM.

Magnet near pulsed coil below 800hz = Hand felt vibrations
So what is the story of 5000hertz - vibrations no way - noise for sure - gyrations no way.


5000 Hert is the standard clock frequency SM used in ALL his TPU's. It powers the mag amps and because it powered the mag amps it ends up on the o/p as 5Khz Hash.

At 800hz or below, can you produce RE. I doubt it.

YES you can produce RE down at 1Hz. Big Newman motors run down around 4hz and they collect plenty of RE.

 But you can produce reactive power at any hertz with undamped waves. lol
Short vibrations of a non-anchored mass (TPU in your hands) = quasi gyro effect - Hmmmmmmmm - maybe.
Any more then that and we are talking voodoo effects that are totally irrelevant.

About your other idea of testing the magnet/coil field effect, I would have to have some time to do it but in my book, the coil would have to be much stronger to cause any real shift of the magnetic field whereas it does not have to be that strong to cause a vibration. Also reading the coil field with a compass when a magnet is placed near the coil is practically impossible to see the finer movements. So that would be a very hard thing to confirm or not. Also, regarding pulsing at RE you would have to provide some specific parameters to start by.

@all

Geez, lot's of posts going everywhere but where it was. So we slack off a bit and get back to it later. No hurry. You guys already get the point. Please keep the lingo civilized (@sigma16 hint hint).

@bolt

Have you ever seen anyone give someone 25k without any strings attached.

 YES i seen well over 250k donation no strings to people i know of for Free Energy devices. This particular guy was supposed to finish making a special magnet motor. People that do this ALWAYS run out of money when special magnet motors are involved. As far as i know nothing happened this was 8 years ago now.

 I also have been made now 4 offers in the last 3 years to relocate and work in secret bunker style labs and sign NDA's i turn them all down. Im talking MUCH MUCH more then 25k.

Ask your local Shylok, he'll inform you about strings, or ropes or casts. Sorry but I don't have that kind of cash laying around. What you need to do is prepare a R&D plan and offer it to those that may have the means to help you out. Such persons usually meet on monthly or bi-monthly basis with their counterparts to review potential "giveaways". There should be a few in your area.

Regarding changing Thanes grinder motor for an RV at 10 watts, there is no way that would work. I have done RV tests galore and it cost me dearly. I have also done other motor tests with gear that cost in the 15 grand level. Also no way. The RV won't work with Thane because at 10 watts there is ZERO torque, and since the magnets are on the outer edge of the rotor where leverage is the greatest, any coil resistance will be amplified and the RV will just seize. Been there, done that.

Well i have to disagree about RV's it one thing i do have a lot of experience with. I converted dozens of pool pumps, water pumps air con pumps and saved people hundreds in electric bills in the Caribbean.  I had some "magic" motors that just accelerated faster and faster till the i/p didn't even register. RV has tons of torque you must tune to the load. You cannot tune to off load then expect RV to have torque cos you never requested it. I have seen a real demand for one HP and RV did it for under 500 watts for 746 shaft power.  RV has been properly pony breaked and it nearly always is OU for I/p far less then shaft power.

RV HAS been looped at LEAST 5 times to my own knowledge. it only requires PW and frequency adjustable inverter.  I see it on skype live video, been sent pics and data and i seen the shit people get into making public RV looped devices.

RV will charge a HUGE bank of cart batteries about 50 times faster then any Bedinni charger and RV is a standard off the shelf device you can get anywhere in the world. I can get brand new 5HP motors for under 100 GBP/euro which is about 150 bucks so i dunno how you spent so much money. I do admit though R and D is VERY expensive. Even the most basic systems have many hidden costs.

Also, just because you can come up with some pretty nice ideas on OU production, it does not mean SM did. Guys here have received perfectly directly related explanation of how SM does his demos and all we read are ideas on OU, thinking that since an idea is plausible, it means SM is real. Means nothing. Of course, no one wants to admit that SM has given us a good wanking around. But we asked for it. We let down our guard and built SM up to hero status. We have also coined many phrases against anyone that tried to see through the idolatry. But given such concrete and pragmatic proof, we now have to take a serious look at ourselves and get real with this TPU business.

The immediate challenge is very simple. Create any energy loop that can light up a small LED. Just an LED, nothing more. That is the starting point. lol

Easy Joule Thief but a proper one that has been properly tuned using RF engineering;:) and not a kitchen table hack with a diode hanging for the load. Chinese have done it apparently in the last few weeks. They must have listened carefully to what i said. They are already 50 watts OU and looking for 1kw goal. AND they will probably do it because unlike most of the others here they actually going over 9 volt battery supply!!! LOL whoooopeee

If you can post a few places on this forum where you have given experiments, please do and I will see what is possible on my end, but I can't make any promises. I am sure others here would be interested in knowing about them.

Only have to read my posts its all there.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 03:40:33 AM
Ok, clowns! Hitch up your giddy. The circus is leaving town.

Let us begin:
Outside of all your vanities, careers, and views the basic premise is this:
One or more Oscillators. If you would like to use 1 then you have to have the correct frequency that matches the atomic structure and configuration of your transmitter and this is definately in need of great discipline of any selected field, guaranteed. Mechanically speaking. We have done this or tried. You can even use 1 frequency to accomodate the use of two frequencies. I refer to the configurations of two dissimilar materials. Mine have been steel and copper, copper and iron. One presents an conductive difference to the other. You therefore get the 2 phased action of 1 frequency working on 2 materials or impedances.
With a Tesla coil we have 2 coils tuned together in some timing aspect. 1 frequency? Well yes but when you consider the highspeed, broadband output the coils produce interaction.

Now Lets look at 2 or more frequencies:
This takes less effort in configuration or control mechanically but more control in the phasing or timing. Why yes, we all have seen this too.
Hit a target with 2 or more frequencies and you will get interaction. Can you say Hutchison? Why are his tests so random? Because he doesn't have the timing correct. But it does get there. No?

So instead of banging a fet or pulsing just correct or squeezing physics on your bench. Give it up! Why not try banging 2 or more fets! Come on, it works. Fry your ass in the experiment too. Or why not try cmos switching(ooh low current) with 3 channels of close frequencies against copper coils or close configuration. Come on. You know you want to try it. Why do I say this? Lets make a seperation here and I want the reader to use this as a yardstick. In all the posting what doth the poster reveal? Physics? Tuning? Transmission and reception? Why yes. The emphasis is on the number of frequencies applied. Always! If you want to use 1 then you have a choice of the correct physics(ouch that sucks), spark gap or NST.
Now in the pulsing we can use low voltage 5 - 48 voltas square wave or if you want to use sines the HV is needed. Low voltage sine takes extreme configuration. The HV square wave will and I repeat will burn you or knock you on your ass. What is in between? You fry equipment. The square wave gives us the timing we need by the rise and fall. That is why low frequencies work. Sines on the other hand have to achieve this function in other ways.

There is nothing else to try outside these aforementioned boundaries.

'Nuff sed?

Arguments, Please? I welcome them. They will be comprised of pontifications or bloat.

Now go back to you benches and work with two or more frequencies(can you say ECD?). With the fustration of all the years past you have accumulated vast amounts of effort to understand and see the experience.

Most of us don't have the experience or setup for one frequency. After all the SM17 is 2... 556s are 2. The ECD is 2. THE GK4 is 3. Didn't SM say 'Bang on'? Hmmm...

You can spend your time on 1 frequency and mysterious configurations, or HV/sparkgap simplistic noise, or multiple frequencies.

There I have stated what was not said before but now it becomes very apparent.

--gk. I gotta go and burn the soapbox for fuel.

p.s. So instead of competing with the laws of physics let the frequencies do the work for you. Any 2 coils next to each other each with its own frequency. This is the biggest hint there is.

I built an invisible man with a transparent ego and empty pride.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 03, 2010, 03:47:36 AM
So, you are afraid to get yor hands dirty.  Probably have never wound a single coil in your entire life.  You go around posting endless rants about the work of others and your interpretations of it, but never do any work yourself.  You stated several times that you can build a working TPU if provided with $25K for a lab.  If you know so much about the TPU's then maybe you can tell us how they are wound.  They are not all the same.

Have you ever built anything that works?  Like a model or birdhouse?  I just want to know if you can follow directions.

Read my posts i disclosed everything about the TPU years ago not seen anything to make me think i made a mistake. In fact everyone else getting closer and closer to my ideas... Maybe people are waking up perhaps the TPU coming soon:)

I made a model airplane once.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 05:12:47 AM
I've made a mistake and thought some of the individuals in this thread were getting the RE effect, but were stuck at how to convert it to current.  I see this thread is just for tossing ideas around and winding pretty coils.  You are no further along now then when you first started.  Have fun.


Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 05:36:33 AM
BS @SG16,
The GK4 does produces RE. You show me your config and tell us all how to safely convert it.
OBTW I got coil what you got?. Builds, tests, equipment? Or just posts. C'mon anti up.
Just how many ways are there to skin a cat? Or was this a test? Air coils have copper ya know? Not just posts.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on August 03, 2010, 01:39:22 PM
Take a wound rotor induction motor and lock the rotor.  Put 3 single phase loads in the lines to reduce the locked rotor currents so that they just saturate the stator steel.  Replace the resistor bank with a capacitor bank tuned to the inductance of the rotor coils.  Leave some resitive device like an inverter or converter in the rotor tanks.  Now you have a Tesla rotating field transformer.  Running 3 single phase loads in the primary and 3 tuned tank circuits in the secondary.  The currents in a rotor when an induction motor is working sweep across the stator conductors and generate a counter emf to the line.  When the rotor is locked this is not the case.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 03, 2010, 03:09:08 PM
Common guys, cool it for a second will y'a.

This SM TPU 1/2R-1/2F has gotten all of you jumpy as hell (me included) and it won't help if we start attacking each other.

Guys are talking that RE=RF. So is that Radiant Energy = Radio Frequency. If it is, then RF is produced ultimately with a transmitter. A transmitter is usually one wire or structure. This explains one thing about the videos I made with the one wire pulsing of coils. It would travel right up to my TV a good 5-6 feet away and it is able or strong enough to modify the TV screen that is being controlled full tilt by the TV circuitry. So it has to be rather powerful stuff. I imagine the effect is on the TV yoke itself since it is also a good sized coil. So one has to find a way to contain it.

So, please quite with all the mysteries. If you have a way to contain RE, just spell it out and don't ask guys here to read through 1000 pages of guacamole.

Cooperation is the only way.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: otto on August 03, 2010, 04:39:09 PM
Hello all,

Im on a vacation and from time to time Im looking for your TPU results but I see a lot of useless bla bla...

So, first I have to say that you can extract usefull energy from magnets. Like SM told us but its my little secret and not related to a TPU.

2. A time ago I got 100m of a tinned cable and as Im curious as always, I pulsed this cable with 2 frequencies. The vibration was sooo strong that the spool "danced" on my workbench. I used 2 high frequencies,in kHz.
@GK is right when he wrote that this effect is because of 2 metals, in my case copper and tin.

Still on vacation.

Otto

PS: ever tried to pulse a oridinary piece of metal to get "something useful out of this metal? Just an idea.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 06:02:57 PM
JDO300 was the first to see the bimetal configuration. He surmised the open tpu wide wire wrap was copper and iron bifilar.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 07:23:02 PM
I make this comparison.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 08:28:42 PM
 ;)



Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 09:21:28 PM
First devices also had coils turned on the side.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 03, 2010, 10:17:06 PM
Forget conventional electromagnetics.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 03, 2010, 10:41:13 PM
You have to get the RE effect to go around with the coil.  This induces the other coils and the capacitor.  "How" doesn't matter.  Forget conventional electromagnetics.

How do you convert RE into current ? Coils at 90 degrees ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 03, 2010, 10:54:22 PM
The metal terminals will suck it up. The capacitor always looks empty. Draw off what you need. That is why a diode looks like a piece of wire both ways. The RE is fast and the capacitor responds.
Remember Tesla's doorknobs?
Also on Don Smith's PVC tube device the Capacitor charge bars face the coil.

How do you convert RE into current ? Coils at 90 degrees ?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on August 04, 2010, 06:33:30 AM
  Interesting concept.  Put a big old antennae and extend the capacitor plate into the atmosphere.  A closed loop coupled to an open loop and see what pops in.  The positive plate of a capacitor weighs less than the negative plate.  When your capacitor is massive like a bifilar wound coil pumped empty it moves.  Now you have a moving conductor and all you need is a stationary magnetic field.  All the while you are charging up your capacitor which will get you an echo when you discharge it into a coil of high self inductance.  Tesla was alternately charging and discharging tons and tons of metal.  He was alternately making them heavier and lighter.  A gravity oscillator,
Two capacitor plates hanging on a string attached to a pulley.  As each plate become alternately charged the lighter one goes up the heavier one goes down.  Proper tuning and you can lengthen the stroke.  Buildup inertia in the system whatever. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 04, 2010, 10:56:14 AM
like dam on very fast river - pim pip pim pim pim pim pim water accumulate - fast frequency (exponential)
bah! dam opened - slow frequency
two frequencies but not the way you thought  :P
 I do not need to build it - I see it clearly
you have to find circuit potential and get controller limit power to that level - rate of opening dam = output power

you see - IT'S a TIME MACHINE
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 04, 2010, 03:06:21 PM
I have a Stupid Question, as I'm sure I won't get a clear answer.  Obviously, there IS a relation between RE (Radiant Energy) and RF (Radio Frequency, used as a description of propagating EM or Electromagnetic field...) but seeing that true electricity (NOT electron flow, please...) and gravity also are related, this is not saying much.   How they are related is what's critical.  So, to get to the nuts and bolts of real bench work, here's the stupid question....

If, and I repeat "IF", the small torrids of the TPU videos were "Mag Amps", used for "switching", would it also not be safe to assume that they were ALSO used as Inductance modifiers?  (For the rest of the "Tank".)

This would allow the "Tuning" of the "RF" component (Really meaning tank loop current) AND the "RE" component (Separate Tank Loop flow, I Know) with a single device, and hide a lot of the operational theory of the initial signal generation.  Doing two things at once, as it were.

Or am I totally off, and the torrids are just for the feedback transfer / signal generation?  (No need to say more, I assume...)
 
 There seem to be proponents both ways, and with no proven test either way, what's a guy to think?  I am "Certain" that I saw no "Tuning" knobs or adjustments, so the units must have self tuned......  Am I Clear?   (No PLL's, Crystals, or Modern ckts were used, were they?)

(I'm still banging my coils with an FET (s), but have been thinking about sliding into the "Mag Amp" concept for switching, but the separate energy types operating within this type of setup is difficult to keep in my head.  I have very little idea of how to integrate the two in energy forms in one circuit, nevermind one device.  There aren't many reference papers out there relating RE to Mag-amps, other than old, unproven "Theory".  I don't actually know which type of energy is the "Real" major component, as yet.)

Wattsup, you have a good point!  (I think it's been stated before, but so what, you reminded me...)  If you could light ONE LED, in a self-sustaining circuit, then the battle has been won!   ANYBODY game?  Shall we make it a race?  I mean a real circuit, not theory, and not expensive...

If you want a single LED RE powered forever then use a joule thief or Dr Stifler TX but you need to understand exactly how to convert real watts to VARS then back to WATTS. Only 20+ years RF tech people need apply for this job and full lab facilities required. Despite hundred of replications most of them cant do more then about >COP 2 or 3 which is not enough to loop but will extend the batteries for a very long time.

I been saying this for years now the two little toroidal are mag amps. If you know how they work they control the current flow by changing the inductance. If you change the inductance you control the amps so now you have a voltage to amps converter.  They are taken place of a TRIODE or FET as they are pretty much immune to extremely high voltages and amps swirling around the coils. The TPU was made back in the late 80's early 90's before the vids were even produced. Back then power FETS were only just born which is why SM said use triode tubes first unless you want to keep blowing up FETS.

SM circuit is not going to be more then a tiny 741 comparator operating a bit like a poor mans PLL to keep the loop VARS within set parameters and a tiny oscillator to kick start the entire process. A pp3 9 volt battery is MORE then enough even a 1.5v watch battery will last years.

 This will give the o/p some stability under various loads and stop the thing going ballistic. Over 100KVAR or 10KW device extreme danger of lightning strikes and local time compression with anti-gravity. Already the TPU shudders this is a warning sign of the effects.

Before the TROLLS say anything about this  go and read Sweet VTA and ask John Bedinni about it. Then ask Bob Boyce about lightning strikes using poly-phase rotating magnetic fields from large toroidal.

The collector coils will need around 10KVAR to produce 1000 watts o/p, An amp clamp meter will show around 10 amps and 1000 volts in reactive circulation. The watts o/p can be anything like 800 volts at 1.25 amps = 1000 watts.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 04, 2010, 03:40:39 PM
If you want a single LED RE powered forever then use a joule thief or Dr Stifler TX but you need to understand exactly how to convert real watts to VARS then back to WATTS. Only 20+ years RF tech people need apply for this job and full lab facilities required. Despite hundred of replications most of them cant do more then about >COP 2 or 3 which is not enough to loop but will extend the batteries for a very long time.

I been saying this for years now the two little toroidal are mag amps. If you know how they work they control the current flow by changing the inductance. If you change the inductance you control the amps so now you have a voltage to amps converter.  They are taken place of a TRIODE or FET as they are pretty much immune to extremely high voltages and amps swirling around the coils. The TPU was made back in the late 80's early 90's before the vids were even produced. Back then power FETS were only just born which is why SM said use triode tubes first unless you want to keep blowing up FETS.

SM circuit is not going to be more then a tiny 741 comparator operating a bit like a poor mans PLL to keep the loop VARS within set parameters and a tiny oscillator to kick start the entire process. A pp3 9 volt battery is MORE then enough even a 1.5v watch battery will last years.

 This will give the o/p some stability under various loads and stop the thing going ballistic. Over 100KVAR or 10KW device extreme danger of lightning strikes and local time compression with anti-gravity. Already the TPU shudders this is a warning sign of the effects.

Before the TROLLS say anything about this  go and read Sweet VTA and ask John Bedinni about it. Then ask Bob Boyce about lightning strikes using poly-phase rotating magnetic fields from large toroidal.

The collector coils will need around 10KVAR to produce 1000 watts o/p, An amp clamp meter will show around 10 amps and 1000 volts in reactive circulation. The watts o/p can be anything like 800 volts at 1.25 amps = 1000 watts.

Wrong again.

You can make great progress out in a few years with hard work even with little education and experience, if you are smarter than the average bear.  If you are a "drama queen", a "post-aholic primadonna", or jump from idea to idea every week, then you'll never get anywhere, as many here have proven.  :o

Yes.  Go and read all about the VTA and ask John Bedini about it too.  It won't help you.  If he knows so damn much about it all, then why does he still use batteries?  Hmm?  Read all of Bearden's books as well, but they will not help either.  Steven stated in the long UEC video that his devices made batteries obsolete and he would know.

There was a private group here a long time ago that worked on the Bob Boyce coil.  As far as I know, it never worked as claimed.  If lightning strikes, you are screwing up.  If the damn thing is covered with ice, then you are screwing up.  Much larger devices work with no lightning strikes, so you are wrong again.

The toroid things are not mag amps and are not required as you have been told over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 04, 2010, 03:56:22 PM
I have a Stupid Question, as I'm sure I won't get a clear answer.  Obviously, there IS a relation between RE (Radiant Energy) and RF (Radio Frequency, used as a description of propagating EM or Electromagnetic field...) but seeing that true electricity (NOT electron flow, please...) and gravity also are related, this is not saying much.   How they are related is what's critical.  So, to get to the nuts and bolts of real bench work, here's the stupid question....

If, and I repeat "IF", the small torrids of the TPU videos were "Mag Amps", used for "switching", would it also not be safe to assume that they were ALSO used as Inductance modifiers?  (For the rest of the "Tank".)

This would allow the "Tuning" of the "RF" component (Really meaning tank loop current) AND the "RE" component (Separate Tank Loop flow, I Know) with a single device, and hide a lot of the operational theory of the initial signal generation.  Doing two things at once, as it were.

Or am I totally off, and the torrids are just for the feedback transfer / signal generation?  (No need to say more, I assume...)
 
 There seem to be proponents both ways, and with no proven test either way, what's a guy to think?  I am "Certain" that I saw no "Tuning" knobs or adjustments, so the units must have self tuned......  Am I Clear?   (No PLL's, Crystals, or Modern ckts were used, were they?)

(I'm still banging my coils with an FET (s), but have been thinking about sliding into the "Mag Amp" concept for switching, but the separate energy types operating within this type of setup is difficult to keep in my head.  I have very little idea of how to integrate the two in energy forms in one circuit, nevermind one device.  There aren't many reference papers out there relating RE to Mag-amps, other than old, unproven "Theory".  I don't actually know which type of energy is the "Real" major component, as yet.)

Wattsup, you have a good point!  (I think it's been stated before, but so what, you reminded me...)  If you could light ONE LED, in a self-sustaining circuit, then the battle has been won!   ANYBODY game?  Shall we make it a race?  I mean a real circuit, not theory, and not expensive...

First of all, RE can mean many things.  If it means radiant energy then it is related to the radio frequencies that produce it.  If it means readiant electricity then it has nothing to do with RF.  When it is RF it is past the point where it could have been radiant electricity.  Rf can produce RE since all that is required is to excite the mass the right way, as sparks so elequently pointed out above.  Many ignore his posts, but agent sparks is cool with me.  :P  Self tuning but some pulse rates will work better than others, as everyone should know by now.

Bolt is correct that Stiffler's circuits will light LEDs indefinitely as far as I know.  They have beome quite popular, but I am still waiting to see some substantial power come from them.  I suspect his work is years ahead of what he actually shares.  He used to sell kits for experimentation, not sure if he still does, but if you want to light an LED, there you go.

A lot of people use FET's but no one ever puts several of them in series and uses higher voltage. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 04, 2010, 04:36:07 PM
First of all, RE can mean many things.  If it means radiant energy then it is related to the radio frequencies that produce it.  If it means readiant electricity then it has nothing to do with RF.  When it is RF it is past the point where it could have been radiant electricity.  Rf can produce RE since all that is required is to excite the mass the right way, as sparks so elequently pointed out above.  Many ignore his posts, but agent sparks is cool with me.  :P  Self tuning but some pulse rates will work better than others, as everyone should know by now.

Bolt is correct that Stiffler's circuits will light LEDs indefinitely as far as I know.  They have beome quite popular, but I am still waiting to see some substantial power come from them.  I suspect his work is years ahead of what he actually shares.  He used to sell kits for experimentation, not sure if he still does, but if you want to light an LED, there you go.

A lot of people use FET's but no one ever puts several of them in series and uses higher voltage.

Radiant energy can be tapped from 1Hz to 100Ghz the method is exactly the same. The big Newman motor runs around 4Hz and is powered by radiant energy. In all these circuits you TREAT them as RF to match the VSWR or power factor no matter what frequency is used.

Stiffler oscillator is historic broadband RF oscillator that will self resonate somewhere up in the 100-500Mhz region. It doesn't matter where the frequency is NOT important. The o/p has a slashed VSWR so it generates longitudinal waves instead of hertzian waves.

The joule thief works exactly the same except this time the ferrite cores or rings whatever lower the frequency down the Khz.

A 3 phase motor in RV mode runs on Radiant energy at 50/60Hz

A large 3 phase transformer is an OU device where the desired conditions create
FERROMAGNETIC-RESONANCE.  1000's of joules can be acquired under these conditions which can cause transformers and grid parts to explode. A 1000KVA utility transformer can be sent shaking off its feet using nothing more then a party strobe light used as a coil banger.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 04, 2010, 04:53:12 PM
I see where is the problem. bolt is describing tapping radiant energy indirectly ; by creating very high Q tank circuit and tapping just a bit of energy from it which is far less the actual resistance inside circuit so it simply add to that resistance yet still it's a miniscule compared to flowing energy. Somone coul describe it as AC based or standing wave. bolt however do not clearly describe how to tap this energy and limit this tapping process to not disturb resonance.
Radiant is not visible here.

I see another way which is extracting energy from time directly or indirectly (you name it) - if you create a sink for many sparks or tiny threads of radiant energy and accumulate it into big spark very fast then you can tap such device at slower rate extracting excess energy in pulses. 5khz in case of TPU,rectified because of electrons whirling in one direction only (part of the process of creating sink)
I think that is what Tesla did in 1931 with Arrow Pierce car electric engine.
You have to understand how energy flow in LC tank to generate radiant rays.
Seems that count of atoms in process is important
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 04, 2010, 05:31:13 PM
I see where is the problem. bolt is describing tapping radiant energy indirectly ; by creating very high Q tank circuit and tapping just a bit of energy from it which is far less the actual resistance inside circuit so it simply add to that resistance yet still it's a miniscule compared to flowing energy. Somone coul describe it as AC based or standing wave. bolt however do not clearly describe how to tap this energy and limit this tapping process to not disturb resonance.
Radiant is not visible here.


Tapping is part of the art of not breaking the dipole. You can't have ALL of it because you kill the precursor which gave you the conditions to begin with. But neither did you pay for all of it to start with so no need to take more then you require. Within the kapandze device or TPU or Newman or Bedini or anything of this nature the reactive power on the coils is MUCH higher then what is extracted and converted to watts.

Don't STEAL from the hand that feeds you!

  Many ways for extraction including pure RF coupling to match the load to the source, Avramenko plugs, peak AC volts snipper to collect the peaks using a large TRIAC and dump the excess to a cap or 90 degree coil coupling prevents conventional electrical flux coupling and allows only magnetic flux COPIES alike ORBO see JLN lab reports.

Within simple circuits a coil can be pulsed disconnected from the source completely. Use the energy in the coil to charge a cap then connect a load briefly and disconnect and repeat. Dozens of OU motors do this on expired patents.

By introducing a permanent magnet creates magnetic modulation. The energy does NOT come from the magnet directly its a source of localized noise.  We can shut off or deflect this noise very easy with low power but the rebound is from the ambient and not really from the magnet at all. Sweet Floyd  came to the same conclusion when he conditioned his magnets. Magnacoaster is doing this to provide KW's from a low power driver.

Here is a very simple concept for those that need help understanding how it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM_HRwqKzFk

The real process name is Bloch wall modulation and not neutralization.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 04, 2010, 06:28:24 PM
I never believed any of the following:

Bearden's dipole, or anything regarding the MEG or negentropy

Bedini's splitting the positive, or talk of RE

anything using the term "reactive power" in the explanation

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bboj on August 04, 2010, 06:53:02 PM
Well sigma you got the point there.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 04, 2010, 08:19:58 PM
Well sigma you got the point there.

Yeah.  The problem is that I wrote down too many points and can not modify the post of others to delete them.

Oh well, I doubt anyone here will be able to make use of them.  I just didn't want others to read them.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: bolt on August 04, 2010, 08:29:43 PM
Well sigma you got the point there.

Well with under 30 post each you are only newbies. Come and talk to me again when you get over 450 posts you may have learn something then about reactive power.

You think it cant do anything? Watch this then

http://tinyurl.com/3xatbxl

12 volt battery supply is used to fire up an RLC circuit with simple oscillator to around 25KVAR then suddenly release the stored energy into another coil weighing over 2lb it fires over 30ft in the air as extreme repelling force. The static and the airborne coil sees the same magnetic polarity and it fires off like a mortar bomb. The energy taken from the batteries is tiny compared to the joules required to launch the coil. Not once but dozens of times.

The process has been developed into a prototype car motor in the Philippines. COP>50 but as usual like the many other OU motors of the past no one will fund them.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 04, 2010, 09:41:12 PM
We've now come full circle. 8)


Here is a very simple concept for those that need help understanding how it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM_HRwqKzFk

The real process name is Bloch wall modulation and not neutralization.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 04, 2010, 09:42:51 PM
Well with under 30 post each you are only newbies. Come and talk to me again when you get over 450 posts you may have learn something then about reactive power.

You think it cant do anything? Watch this then

http://tinyurl.com/3xatbxl

12 volt battery supply is used to fire up an RLC circuit with simple oscillator to around 25KVAR then suddenly release the stored energy into another coil weighing over 2lb it fires over 30ft in the air as extreme repelling force. The static and the airborne coil sees the same magnetic polarity and it fires off like a mortar bomb. The energy taken from the batteries is tiny compared to the joules required to launch the coil. Not once but dozens of times.

The process has been developed into a prototype car motor in the Philippines. COP>50 but as usual like the many other OU motors of the past no one will fund them.

The quantity of posts means nothing.  All you have done in your meesely few hundred posts is tout the work of others and produce excuse after excuse as to why you can not perform these feets yourself.

There is nothing to learn about reactive power that is of importance in our alternative energy endeavor.  If you think that there is, then you are mistaken.  Heat pumps have an attractive COP, but are not overunity.

Funding?  Get off your ass and you don't need funding.  If you put all of the good information about these alternative energy devices together, then you will have more than enough information to obtain your goal.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 04, 2010, 09:45:31 PM
We've now come full circle. 8)

Yes, but that circle only leads further from the truth!
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 05, 2010, 12:34:24 AM
I get it, you are the only one who know it, but you don't tell us, right?  ::) what a surprise, again :-\

I just tell you one thing. Right now, you are not different than Bolt, or anybody else, who claim something, but not proving, he is right. Until that's happen all of you could be right, and maybe too early to keep telling everybody how wrong they are.  :P

I told you many things.  Use it, or not.  That is your decision.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on August 05, 2010, 12:51:56 AM
No one gets it ! We all know parts of it , but unless we make a collective effort to solve it , we are no further then when SM presented it .

The time for talking is over , its time for pictures and video , teach your tricks with others and they will do the same , right now everyone is a parasite ...

Put your Ego's in your back pocket and sit on it , we are lucky to have the opportunity to work with people from all over the world , instant assistance form other humans sharing your goals , we are a army , a resistance to oppression , but bad programing brings us to oppress our self , stop acting like slaves , build on solid foundations , if we can't do it no one will .


 >:(     
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on August 05, 2010, 04:06:57 AM
...we are a army , a resistance to oppression , but bad programing brings us to oppress our self...

Yes, but not here.  Unlike an army, anyone can join this particular forum; agent provocateurs and crazy bastards alike, allowed to flail about for over five thousand posts before you, Mk1, helped put that one down.  (Thanks again, by the way.)  But there will always be more; same ways, different means.

Other, "invitation only," forums could be compromised as well.

"Listen to everyone, read everything, believe absolutely nothing unless you can prove it to yourself with your own research." -Milton William Cooper

I believe that the Joule Thief circuit allows anyone to do their own research because it costs so very little to make and engages the mind in contemplation of oscillating circuits, unlike a standard DC flashlight 'experiment,' there is more going on inside.

I have absolutely no idea who is telling me the truth on this, or any other forum, unless I prove it to myself.  Why do any of us trust anyone else?  We do not need trust, we need brains, brains, and more brains.  We each need to figure it out alone, for ourselves, by ourselves until we reach a critical mass and the truth can no longer be contained,... whatever that truth my be.  It may just be boring old textbook stuff, after all, or it could take us to the stars.

Good night, and good luck.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 05, 2010, 04:51:29 AM
Always pay attention to the man behind the curtain.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: NickZ on August 05, 2010, 05:21:30 PM
     @ All:
      Looks like the man behind the curtain doesn't know his A.. from a hole in the ground, either. Just more BS. He must be so bored, and got nothing else to do. Since he couldn't get his toy to work.  If he really knew something,  he wouldn't be waisting his time here.
  NOW its your turn,  smart guy.   You got more BS for us?  Or are you getting the POINT...     

     
                             
               
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: e2matrix on August 05, 2010, 06:55:21 PM
You know I think there are quite a number of people here who are really trying to help others out.  I think some may have already found the answers.  Others may not quite be there and are hoping by sharing what they know others will build and find some little difference or try something just a little different that will result in the big AH-HAH - this is IT!  And hope that person shares with everyone else.  And due to the very nature of the TPU it just may be dangerous enough that it's not the kind of thing you want to see someone putting together who has just learned that red is positive and black is negative.   That fact leads me to believe some hold back a bit depending on how they perceive the knowledge of others they may share with.  And yes their are two sides to that concept and the other one is not so good.  I still like to believe most people are honest and desire good things for others and our planet. 
   
  It also seems so much good info has been shared in the last few pages that perhaps those who feel the need to protect their riches and the status quo are trying their best to disintegrate further research.  I don't think that's wattsup.  I just don't totally agree with his conclusions.  I'm sure it's been a long hard road for many.  I started following FE research 20 years ago and have watched and helped a little with one person's quest for about 15 years.  He's not on here but I believe he's about to finally achieve his goal of FE.  He has dedicated full time his life to this research.  The point is that it doesn't happen as fast as we want in many cases.  Don't let that ruin the opportunities that may still lie ahead. 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 05, 2010, 08:26:07 PM
@e2,
Well put.
I am still on the current build. It has taken time becaue I see in this set of instructions the potential of putting most of the specifications we know of in place. I also have 3 layers/coils just finished.
Now I put the specified electronic process in place.

This will prove one of 2 things: the build, the process, or the source that gave me this. I want this narrowed down. I trust the build specifications and the process shown. This will validate the supplier.

The caveat in the subimission is: 'If the coil doesn't work throw it away and try again.'
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Mk1 on August 06, 2010, 02:06:19 AM

Well , the professional trolls are here to disrupt the collective work .

The main strength of the JT is the people working on it in harmony and sharing all data , it works great ...

With pictures and drawing , its easier to judge if its worth a try , and seeing how others make there coils , its all in the detail ...

In the tpu topics you rarely schematic , or drawing or data ...

Some are leaders and start there own topics like Gk , we should all to this to document our research , and making it accessible to others you do your best if others are interested they will ask for more details ...

That is the only way .


Mark

 
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on August 06, 2010, 03:10:35 PM
...
The main strength of the JT is the people working on it in harmony and sharing all data , it works great ...
...
Some are leaders and start there own topics like Gk , we should all to this to document our research , and making it accessible to others you do your best if others are interested they will ask for more details ...

That is the only way .

I agree.  But PLEASE include enough detail, like GK's builds and others, so that your contribution can be replicated, verified, and experienced on anyone's bench or your just another pretty pinwheel stuck out the passenger window.

This forum, and others, may not be as useless as I portend. -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc)
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 06, 2010, 07:05:27 PM
I lead myself. Others choose to follow. Creative people are not natural born leaders with politics. Their idea is different at the time when others need to see. We all go 'round and 'round in these positions.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: Rosphere on August 06, 2010, 08:11:31 PM
I lead myself. Others choose to follow. Creative people are not natural born leaders with politics. Their idea is different at the time when others need to see. We all go 'round and 'round in these positions.

Creativity is the initial joining together of two or more previously unrelated ideas to form a new idea, such as the Joule-Thief circuit.  Now, since the basic circuit has been shown here many times, we can start with this one JT idea, (or some other idea,) add our own ideas, and make our own discoveries.  Someone posted an Armstrong oscillator circuit here recently; very similar to a JT.  I intend to test that circuit one season, maybe this winter.  It looks like I have settled-in for the long, scenic-view; I am just happy to be on the train.

Say where is this train headed; do we now understand electricity in the TPU?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 06, 2010, 09:40:09 PM
Snapping a field within a field within a field. I have seen this over and over again. Whether in metal or air. This is really hurtfull when applied to aluminum.
So I am in the prototype stage of setting up the circuit. I will post the attempts in the discrete parts of the process.

These are field in a field in a field.
The snapping or high speed, low current coil ringing.
Additional caps to tank the coil layers.
Frequencies that match the tuning. Now here is the tricky part. The frequency, the circumference, the resonance of the 3 layered tanks, the impedance. Alot of matching mechanical properties to setup a platform that matches the frequencies. A total environment for the tanks to ring. Will this be collectable? We will see or how is this tapped...

With this setup I will be available for input to run this thing. In any case this setup has alot of specific things we have seen before.
Included is pulse 9v DC. No reversal of the fields.

Let me add this:
With 3 layers of DC pulsing the modualtion of the fields all go in the same direction. I relate this to cannon balls. With high speed switching then I have high speed cannon balls. With the small iron core this causes hysteresis or delay. Now the high speed activity will collect into the iron core. That being in parallel with the stranded collector should enable induction.
This is from the very beginning basics.

JDO300 and I have been in constant communication over the last 4 years and been reviewing these lastest items. We are and have been pursuing understanding the processes.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 07, 2010, 03:41:28 AM
You are thinking way to hard and making this way too complicated.

Try to get one layer or one coil to work before you try three layers.  This is the best advice that anyone can give another and I'm sure that Steven would agree.  Start at square one and do not move to the next square until you complete square one.  Everyone skips past square one and wonders why it doesn't work.

Where did Steven start?  He noticed something odd.  A noise? A vibration? A feeling?  A signal? An effect?  That is square one.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: forest on August 07, 2010, 09:20:07 AM
You are thinking way to hard and making this way too complicated.

Try to get one layer or one coil to work before you try three layers.  This is the best advice that anyone can give another and I'm sure that Steven would agree.  Start at square one and do not move to the next square until you complete square one.  Everyone skips past square one and wonders why it doesn't work.

Where did Steven start?  He noticed something odd.  A noise? A vibration? A feeling?  A signal? An effect?  That is square one.


Tesla did the same. Additionaly there is a chance that square one is safe while mix is always danger.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 07, 2010, 05:58:20 PM
Say where is this train headed; do we now understand electricity in the TPU?

@Rosphere

Unfortunately people do not want to learn about the electricity in the TPU because it may lead to some unwanted conclusion. I have been trying to sink some logic into your brains about the SM TPU but it looks like I will be the only one to get the message.

All I read, although very interesting posts of ideas on workings and effects, a @GK design, some blabber-mouthing, but nothing, NOTHING ON WHAT I HAD PUT FORTH.

So I have almost finished preparing the third and final post on the subject of how to fake a TPU demo, because I am now totally convinced SM faked ALL his videos (except the FTPU) and even  his demos with them live turkeys just gobbling up all the crap SM shot at them. SM was a master of deceit. His videos are a stark warning to all that the deceivers will come forth with many ploys to make you think what you want to think. They will devise many excuses as to why they do not show voltage and amperage readings. They will use any method possible to justify their mentally deranged antics.

Again, just listen to the message SM left Jack Durban after JD did the radio show. Kind of tells you that even to this day SM is mentally unstable. He only feels comfortable when he is lying to aid in his self-aggrandizement.

http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Steven%20Mark/wave%20files/

I want my post to be a written record so that in 5 years from now when everyone finally wakes up and realizes that SM was a total fraud, that I will at least be able to say, "WOW - Lucky me - I turned left just in time to head off another 5 years of limbo-isms. Guys better wake up.

@sparks

Do you know anything about any electronic equivalent to "static receptors".
Seems all I can find out on this is in "biology" but nothing in electronics. Hmmmmmm.

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 07, 2010, 08:41:10 PM
How does one explain the shockwave felt by JDO300 when he pulsed his ECD? Collumnated energy. The GK4 produced dispersed energy.
Field within a field, 2 frequencies, Bang on.

I wait in earnest.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 07, 2010, 09:25:35 PM
We use the slower field as the conductor or the transmission path. Metal is slower. A lower type of quantum storage or carrier. The mag field responds quicker. A less resistive carrier. See?
Alot of posters have done excellant work trying to make metal faster to no avail. That is why resonant tanks work the way they do. The process is in the field. The effect is in the forward and reverse of the field in space and matter. The components actuate the external effort.

Babble? It is not in the copper.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: aragox on August 07, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
Hi all,
I have been working on TPU new design for several months now but still no sign of OU
Is there ANY one can tell me if there is a schematic of a self powered TPU out there?
All I read so far Does Not OU!
 :-\
Regards
Erol

Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 07, 2010, 10:06:24 PM
What process is your approach?
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on August 08, 2010, 06:20:59 AM
  @wattsup

     I havent really researched much on static collectors.   Once in a while I am a static collector when Im working a sandblast cabinet and a lightning strike bridges the gap between the end of my nose and the glass.  Charge is carried by mass but mass is not a prerequisite for charge to exist.    In a vacuum tube we can change the course of electrons accelerated towards the anode one of two ways.  We can deflect them using an "electrostatic" field perpendicular to the accelerating "electrostatic" field  or use the magnetic field of a coil to induce a twirling route .  This coil is used to establish magnetic field lines inside the vacuum tube to negate the electrostatic field of the electrons themselves.  Otherwise in a picture tube the electrons approaching the screen would slow down because of the electrons already at the screen.  It is used to focus the electron flight.
What is remarkable in a vacuum tube is that it is clearly demonstrated that an electrostatic field can and does do work.  The picture tube acts as a huge capacitor that is systematically shorted out.  Imagine an electron gun where the initial electron flight is diverted and misses the anode all together.  There would be no electron collisions with the anode at all.  Just the accelerating force of the electric field virtually forever.  The electrons accelerated by this field smash into a target that converts their inertia into radiant energy. Free accelerated electrons as they slow down just like a car slowing down dissipate their momentum as what we perceive to be radiation.  Light heat sound whatever.   If the free electrons are accelerated for free and cause some light heat and sound when they slow down and enough feedback to free up more electrons then we have perpectual motion.  Where does all this free energy come from.  The electric field.  The flow of particles creating charge on mass seperated by a field void of charged mass.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 08, 2010, 05:52:41 PM
How does one explain the shockwave felt by JDO300 when he pulsed his ECD? Collumnated energy. The GK4 produced dispersed energy.
Field within a field, 2 frequencies, Bang on.

I wait in earnest.

Assuming this was an "odd" event, I'd look for a more controllable means to produce it.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 08, 2010, 06:41:48 PM
@sparks

Yes I am also sometimes a static receptor. And also a static discharger. Ouch.

I am wondering if the dielectric of a capacitor can catch this stuff and hold it. Not catch it via the capacitor terminals or ends, but directly into the dielectric matter itself.

Let's say I use a coil that is pulsed to a high enough frequency to create static discharges. Around that coil I place "paper" capacitors. I would have to use paper because the metal casing or thick plastic casing capacitor would just deflect or absorb the static discharges on the casing itself and this would not be useful. So I have paper capacitors that cannot hinder the static discharges to travel through the outer shell and enter the dielectric matter. The dielectric matter itself would be in charge of putting the static energy into order inside its mass matrix and have it available on the terminals. If I had enough paper capacitors, some in series, then grouped in parallel all around, over and under the center coil, maybe this would work as a static receptor. If this worked well enough, it would equal a regular transformer action but possibly without Lenz Law working against it. You could pulse the coil and draw back the coils' flyback for greater pulsing efficiencies while creating static discharges that are then caught by the outer dielectrics.

I will have to test this out soon enough, right after I post my last post on the SM TPU demo methods. I can't wait to finish this post and then be free to get to other works. It will be tonight. I am nervous and concerned that some will not take it well. But this is how I see it and all the pieces fit in perfectly and all the methods and mysteries are so well explained from this viewpoint that one cannot simply neglect these. We have been stuck in a quandary for long enough and it is time we took back control of our R&D orientations. Soon......
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sparks on August 08, 2010, 08:53:59 PM
  Lets not forget Faradays law.  The rate of change of the magnetic field about a conductor produces a higher emf.  So lets take a small magnet and generate some current and charge a capacitor with this current.   Now we take the capacitor and discharge it fast as we can into something that is gonna change the magnetic field about a conductor real fast. Alot faster than we could ever move a permanent magnet by the conductor.  THE RESULT IS THAT A HIGHER EMF IS PRODUCED THAN INPUT PRODUCED TO BEGIN WITH.  Take a portion of the gain and recycle it to move the exiciter magnet.  Use the rest to move something else.   











Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 09, 2010, 04:42:06 PM
@sparks

Thanks for your explanation. I will be looking into the capacitor dielectric mass soon and let you know how it goes.

@all

Before I post my last post in the How SM made his Demo Videos series, I would like to post these two images I grabbed this morning to explain a few things about the LTPU.

In the first image LTPU-toggle-wires1.jpg, you will notice that the left toggle switch had two terminals and the potentiometer has three terminals but only two are used (the center and only one end) which is expected. But her notice the left or nearest toggle switch has one terminal thin wire A going to the pot C. The other terminals have thin wires B and D going into the wire harness. This is the reactive power end of SM LTPU. The end that shows voltage of 830 vdc. The other toggle switch has heavy wire on it and this switch simply connects the hidden battery source to the same output terminals on the other end of the LTPU where Sm takes his voltage measurements.

In the second image LTPU-sidewall1.jpg, you will notice SM put his tape measure onto the wooden rim of the outer sidewall. But this is not true because the LTPU sidewall is embedded inside the outer rim giving it another 3/4" to 1" real depth. Why would he make such an evident omission on the real LTPU height. When you look at the base platform at the center of the LTPU and compare it to the height of the outer wooden rim, you will notice the center platform is higher and it is glued to the inner sidewall of the LTPU. Why would you go to all that trouble to do all that work when just letting the LTPU stand on a full second level would have done the job? What is he using all that inner space under that center platform? I have already shown how many batteries you could hide there, then add more batteries you could hide inside the LTPU sidewalls and you will soon realize you could have some very generous battery power available inside that LTPU demo.

I will be posting my last post on this hopefully tonight. I have a few edits to do again before it is ready.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 09, 2010, 05:08:40 PM
OK, OK, just in case some of you want to come back and tell me I am wrong about this, I am including a last image of the MTPU cutaway showing exactly the TPU sidewall goes below the outer rim and shows the approximate height of the center platform with a blue line.

This is the reality.

Also notice when SM made the cutaway, he went in with the jigsaw but instead of cutting out a real pie shape with a pointed end going further into the center of the device, he cut the pie flat. Wonder why???????????
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: giantkiller on August 09, 2010, 05:37:12 PM
Well if this evidence is becoming truer and truer then what are we striving for?
Could SM have seen Muller's devices and tried to capitalize without knowing the full process?
Or
Could we be working on a motor with a virtual rotor?

Bloch wall manipulation, BEMF, 2 frequencies eclipsing each other, magnetic noise banging against many conductors. I see validity in these processes.

On the cut out, is there a version that shows conductors in the white top and bottom.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: wattsup on August 09, 2010, 06:34:03 PM
@GK

Hi man.

You see, any TPUer or OUer has a vast base of knowledge that goes far beyond anything SM would have. If I show you a simple coil, a capacitor, a small open circuit and I make a small 24vdc bulb light up, TPUers and OUers will be able to discuss this for years with so many tremendous theories, all plausible, all potentially possible new avenues of R&D. But at the end of the theorizing, if I told you the coil was simply wrapped around three small batteries and the bulb was really a 3 volt high bright bulb, then what would you say.

Would you thank me for being the reason all this theorizing occurred or would you take responsibility and ban me from future OU considerations, knowing that everything I may have said is based on lies and tricks.

You decide for yourself. All I can do is put it on the table to the best of my abilities.

We seem to always look the other way when it comes to SM. We seem to forget he already tried to fake a 3D sound system. The guy does have a background that states "all forms of deceit are fair play when it comes to making a few bucks". This is another reality. After so many years, just listen to that same man speak to JD in the way he did. There is no remorse. He is only portraying his continued disillusionment. Sorry to say but now all the pieces fit perfectly in their place. When a theory is given and it only explains one or two events but does not fit so many others, you naturally have to go back and re-work the theory to fit all the events. But then, when the theory is shown, exampled, showing all the hidden actions and events and explains everything, then you have to take that as being the best possible explanation and take responsibility to act accordingly in your future. The sooner this is done, the sooner we can all move forward on some solid footing and not base our next builds on SMTPU lies.

When you take the viewpoint that the SM TPUs had two power outputs, one reactive and one simply battery pulsed, you then have to sit down and say to yourself, "ok, given this information, how would I now have to do my videos so people believe the SM TPU is real". When you do this and then realize that all the TPUs used demonstrative procedures that fit this perfectly, then you KNOW you have it.

I do not have to have a SM TPU in my hand anymore to prove if it is fake or not. I have done all the legwork to find out what I need to know to determine if SM is real or not. I know today that SM was mentally a very sick man. To this day, his last message to JD says it all. His perception of reality is not the same as any other honest folk. He is the result of some clever but sick antics. Again sorry to say. If you knew how sorry I am about having to bring this forward to all you guys that I know have invested so many endless hours in this quest. But we had to be ready for either outcome. Either it is real or it is not. In this case it is half real, but even the half real part is simply used as a deception. I'll talk more about that in my post. Or maybe I should just leave it alone and not say anything anymore.

What pisses me off the most is some guys say "well he did not succeed so he is bitter". That is total bull. I did succeed in my own way like all have succeeded in their own ways and each one is bringing us closer to OU. There is no other outcome acceptable on this Forum. OU will happen and finding out finally that SM was a total OU ripper will not stop the advent of OU from happening. SM will eventually become a side issue that will belong in a circus or wax museum of those that tried to trick the world. I the end, members will believe what they want to believe and for me, that is ok. As long as I have done or taken my responsibility to put forth this information and not hidden it in a closet.
Title: Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
Post by: sigma16 on August 09, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
If you think the TPU was fake, then so be it.  If you would get off your ass and follow the direction to producing the "effect", which have been provided several times, then you might start to think that maybe the TPU is real after all.

Everything Steven said points to the fact that he found another means of induction, just like he says at the end of the UEC video.  His words also point to a means of accelerating particles to achieve a net gain.