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Author Topic: Understanding electricity in the TPU.  (Read 284365 times)

Offline wattsup

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Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« on: October 18, 2009, 06:28:42 PM »
@all

I started this new thread to not meddle with other threads that are well ongoing and well advanced in a certain direction, that I thought some may consider it inappropriate to ask this in those threads.

So, the question really boils down to finding the secret to the workings of an SM TPU. I think one of the basic questions to fully ask and try to answer this is "how does DC power really play into the TPU", since we all consider it a given that DC power is the source of the TPU. lol

OK, I hope members will really like this thread because it will try to go beyond what we usually accept as standard EE notions and try to figure out what the hell is really happening with the "real" way electricity works in our circuits and ultimately help making a functional TPU.

I have been bugged by this question for a very long time now, so I will simply start off by asking a few simple questions that are shown in the diagram below.

So if any of you can answer this questions. I will then continue on with the follow-up questions and advance from there.

wattsup

PS: Most of you already know that I have not followed any formal EE training. I have brushed shoulders on this forum with some great and savvy members and have learned a great deal over the years. But there is always a side of me that is always asking why. I know that when we learn something in school, we are asked to take it as a given fact. "That's the way it is", we are told. But then when you start asking why, most answers will relate to a law, a rule, an accepted understanding of how so many "natural" events occur in the way they do. But myself, I am not a buyer of all accepted notions, as SM and other inventors had to go against the grain of accepted knowledge to achieve something..... well something out of this world. Or, maybe better put, something more in tune with the reality of nature.

Maybe one last point. Please try and keep your answers and explanations so that even a low level EEer will understand it. This way there will be no misunderstanding in how we perceive your answers and comments.

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Offline Yucca

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 08:18:14 PM »
Hi Wattsup,

series no.1:

1=N
2=S

3=N
4=S

series no.2:

1=S
2=N

3=N
4=S

current flows from positive to negative in both cases.

Why?..because thats what my DVM and compass say lol.

edit:
I can't answer your question though, I haven't a clue why it happens, yes I know about electrons, but this charge quanta called an electron is probably just a small piece of the puzzle, its movement might be the axiom of "electronics" but as to whats really going on to cause it and exactly what a mag field is... ?

Yucca.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 11:51:57 PM by Yucca »

Offline wattsup

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 03:00:43 PM »
@Yucca

Thanks for your answers. I was also asking for the current polarities at those points but this is OK. I am not going to say if you are right or wrong in your answers. We will hopefully discover this as the thread continues.

As for your member Types, I would say I am 50/50. The Type 1 side of me does all the TPU discovery works plus a smaller percentage for just other things, and this saves a shit load of time and effort for the Type B side of me that does all the building and testing. Think think and think again before building. You may work out most all the build in your head, work out the bugs there, then build your best shot instead of just building to build, or, by thinking first you may find the build will go nowhere and wait until you have a better idea. But building just for the sake of it is not my style anymore. Been there, done that.

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 03:00:43 PM »
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Offline Yucca

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 06:59:28 PM »
@Yucca

Thanks for your answers. I was also asking for the current polarities at those points but this is OK. I am not going to say if you are right or wrong in your answers. We will hopefully discover this as the thread continues.

As for your member Types, I would say I am 50/50. The Type 1 side of me does all the TPU discovery works plus a smaller percentage for just other things, and this saves a shit load of time and effort for the Type B side of me that does all the building and testing. Think think and think again before building. You may work out most all the build in your head, work out the bugs there, then build your best shot instead of just building to build, or, by thinking first you may find the build will go nowhere and wait until you have a better idea. But building just for the sake of it is not my style anymore. Been there, done that.

Hi Wattsup, I edited out my type[1] and [2] writing because I thought it might derail your thread with it being a first post. I agree with you, the perfect combination is a theorist and a builder to test those theories. I think building for the sake of it is somewhat therapeutic, like an old fella in a rocking chair carving a corn cob pipe, and there's nothing wrong with that because maybe, just maybe, if the carve is lucky then the magic might happen. If everyone on the planet built diffewrent configs and somehow the data could be organised and made sense of then after a few months alot would be learnt.

What do you mean by current polarities? I only know that current flows from pos to neg (in a classical sense) but of course if we observe ringdown over time then those polarities will be swinging all different, is this what you mean? the AC ringdown?

Cheers, Yucca.

Offline rotaryfcg

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 09:54:42 PM »
I'll give it a try,
at series no 1.direction of current flow from 1 to 4 (electrons moving from 4 to 1). polarities 1N,2S,3N,4S, 1+,2-,3+(not quite- actually it's the same polarity as 2), so 1 + 2,3 -, 4 -. i think i see your point, for a current to flow there must be a potential difference and that could exists even with only negative or positive potentials. so again 1 pos,2 negative in respect to 1 same as 3 -pos in respect to 4 neg.
allmost the same story in series 2.
quite a mess , i know, sorry

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 09:54:42 PM »
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Offline innovation_station

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 03:26:11 PM »
last summer i had my little ali on a swing ... and she says daddy give me a ROLLIAN SPINN ...  :D


i said what is a rollian spinn  she said it is when you wind it up and let it go ....  8)

 :o ;D

i think you give it a kick in the butt at the release ...

ist ..

perhaps she ment the flows of electricty ...

cant wait to finish all this construction i have started  ;)

i add a good song .... 

COLD PLAY SPEED OF SOUND ...

where to .....where do i go ...
if you never try then youll never know .. how long .....do i have to climb up this side of this mountain of mine...


if you could see it you'd understand ...  when you see it then you'll understand ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TahH7B_aUZc

all the inventors could NEVER DESIGN....  ;) :D ;D 8)

PEACE YOU ALL!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 04:58:03 PM by innovation_station »

Offline wattsup

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2009, 04:18:24 PM »
OK, thanks to those members that have posted on this thread and to the question I asked above. Since no one else wants to find out more about this I will use this thread to put down some observations on the TPUS, etc, and we can get back to the initial question some other time.

I just got my next pulse generator. An HP 8111A. Hope it lasts longer then the last one, but this one is really great, digital precision and best of all, no more loud cooling fan noise.

Well let's start with a basic one.

One of the attributes of the TPU can be simply explained and we should have seen this FROM DAY ONE and that is SLIGHT VIBRATION at 7.8 hertz.

Who will try this first. Actually, who has not tried this before. lol. Take any DC pulsing source and connect it to any type of coil you want. While pulsing the coil at let's say 60 hertz take a small Alnico magnet and bring it near the coil about 1/4" to 1/2" away. What do you feel. Slight vibration. Now try and hold that magnet so tightly that it does not vibrate. Impossible? Now bring up the frequency and tell me at what frequency you stop feeling a vibration.

Yes, once SM puts a magnet on the FTPU, right next to the toroid coil, this is when the vibration starts. Magnet against pulsing toroid coil or any coil. I tried it too many times. Without a magnet near the coil, it will never vibrate on its own unless you are pulsing 1000s of volts and high amps, them wires will not move enough for a human to feel anything.

So SM says a slight vibration of 7.8 hertz. So if this is true, this means the toroid had to be pulsing at 7.8 hertz and that makes perfect sense to feel this slight but unstoppable, undampable vibration. Also at 7.8 pulsing, this is such a low frequency that it will provide the best amplitude potential. In my FTPU mock up voltage rises to 50 volts with only one dual coil toroid, one Litz ring covered with one complete control coil. lol

All the smaller TPUs had one or more magnets placed on them to start with and that is the vibrator. NOTHING ELSE. It's not the electrons moving the wires. It's the coil field moving the magnet. This vibration has been equated with a kick, which is the basis for so many discussions on this forum. The kick was another distraction.

But tell me at what frequency a human will stop feeling something vibrating. No where near 5000 hertz. If that toroid was pulsing at anything more then 800 hertz, you would not feel a vibration because the vibrating is from a physical movement and such movement will have a speed limit. Just like a regular relay has a pulsing frequency limit. This proves also that in the OPTU, at least one coil, if not both coils under the magnets had to be pulsed for that same vibration to occur. Same in the STPU and 6TPU. Cripes, he puts a magnet inside the TPU then he says slight vibration. DUHHHHHHHHHHHH. How stupid could we have been to not realize this from day one. I think we were so mesmerized with the whole advent that we just did not see the obvious staring at us right in the face.

As for the LTPU, of course it did not need a magnet because you have two toroids side by side, equals two magnets side by side, pulsing. So what will this do? Vibrate. Basically SM new why it vibrated but used this as another distraction. We just took this vibration and went off on so many tangents of function modes trying to explain the gyro-motion. It was all bull to start with. The action is so elementary we just could not accept it and had to find an out of this world explanation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2009, 04:18:24 PM »
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2009, 05:55:27 PM »
In 2007 I put Neos in the GK4. I got chatter.
I taped them to the coil. I got vibration.
I grabbed the magnets in the coil. I got headache.
SM holds the TPUs very gingerly. He stays away from the magnets.
The warning I got was 'When the neos chatter you have microwaves. Don't touch the magnets'.
Cabinet magnets are weaker so just a bit safer.
That is why I never turned it on again.

--Giantkiller.

Offline innovation_station

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2009, 06:12:32 PM »
another verry good reason i presue low voltage cold rectified methods ...

 :)

btw ... something just happined .. i got up from typeing ... i whitted out fell on the floor and came to ... verry odd ... this is not a usual event ...  i have never done that ...

any how !

the jt is verry safe  better if sheilded too to ensure no comm interferience ..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2009, 06:12:32 PM »
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Offline EMdevices

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2009, 03:43:32 AM »
I'm too excited for words right now, so I figure I let you know what I discovered just now.

I have a setup similar to the one shown in the drawing,  and the toroid core is the coupling medium.   well,  I didn't like the resonance I saw on my scope, it seemed to be slightly out of tune or it would jump a bit in frequency, so I figured it wasn't tuned just right.   Then I got an idea, let me bring a magnet close to the core to saturate it a bit maybe I can just tune it even better.   Wow !!! then it happened...... The core started to BUZZ like a freaking toaster or heavy power transformer, I could feel the vibrations with my hand and it was so damn hot too. (the core is 2 inches diameter, so pretty small)  Guess what, the vibrations continued even after I REMOVED the magnet.  And another thing,  I'm working with high kHz frequencies not the low buzzing frequency.  I think i got the magnetic domains to spin in there.  This is so neat. 

EM

Offline Mannix

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 04:22:57 AM »
Good stuff EM!

Now wer'e cooking!

Out side ring also tuned to resonance?

Try with a speaker magnet as the dimensions of the cores in the videos seem to be the same as speaker magnets.

This means that the videos are more relevant than the letters.(at this stage at least)

Otto has this vibration but no body so far has been able to replicate it. 

Pics , dimensions, wire types, drive type  please (if you can stop shaking )

Excitement here too!

« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 05:50:05 AM by Mannix »

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2009, 04:22:57 AM »
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Offline Mannix

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 05:42:22 AM »
If the magnet is what makes the difference then it is the "magnetisim" that is the difference.

that difference is the resonance that is important perhaps?

this sounds like gobblede gook.. sorry, some better minds than mine will frame this better soon I hope.

Are you driving close to core saturation or does that seem to happen after it growls?





Offline EMdevices

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 06:01:57 AM »
red wire (see picture)   22 Gage
brown wire (see picture)   lamp cord  (18 gage ??, not sure)

core is painted yellow  like you see in SMs TPU's, I know it means something like the frequency range, etc.., maybe somebody can look it up online..

I think the combination of the fields created from my main coil  (normal to the toroid area) and the fields created orthogonal from the toroid windings, somehow interact and have the proper phasing and begin to go round and round, or maybe it just resonates due to some mixing action (saturated cores are nonlinear and mix frequencies, i.e. creating other frequencies then the ones involved, harmonics too, etc..)

By the way,  10 Amps flow through the brown wires (main coil has 20 turns or so, which means a flow of 200 Amps total), and the red wire probably has about 10/4 amps = 2.5 Amps, because the ration is 1:4 turns for the toroid,  (but this is just going from theory, I haven't actually measured the current, and I don't dare too with my precious instruments.)

The plastic on the core almost melted and started a fire that's how hot it gets.  This is hysteresis loss, I've seen it before in school. I think it is related to SM's TPU heat issues?  And there is a reason why his cores are on top of the control box and not inside,  they need COOLING !!!!!!!!!! and that's why they are also cemented to that metallic plate.

EM

P.S.  Those blue caps are rated at 1kV, but can withstand up to 2.5 kV, there is a reason why I put them in series, because the voltage on the "primary side" is around 2.5 kV, but on the "secondary side" around 1.5 kV.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 06:57:13 AM by EMdevices »

Offline Mannix

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 07:54:11 AM »
Thanks EM,

A bit clearer now

thank for your open source attitude
so, each ends of the bifilar main loop are terminated with series capacitance at the torriod.

Ive kept using parallel ..damm!



How many turns on the bifilar main loop?

The driving frequency and input is not shown , can you clarify where the initial excitation comes from...and, of course, do you see this as  this mains pick up in any way?

The frequency might be important to know as well as weather it changes as it vibrates.

My 15" ,7 turn loop has always had some funny phasing effect around 35 khz like an anti resonance.

I surely hope  we can all replicate this effect and finally get some common ground to work with/from.

perhaps you might start yet another thread called "magnetic vibration for dummies""?


Thank you again EM









Offline otto

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Re: Understanding electricity in the TPU.
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 08:06:05 AM »
Hello all,

@Mannix

can you please clarify a little bit your "phasing effect"?

Its important for me and maybe us all.

Otto

PS: @EM

fantastic, but you know it, ha,ha.

 

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