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Author Topic: Black hole may eat Earth  (Read 6456 times)

Offline Feynman

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Black hole may eat Earth
« on: March 29, 2008, 07:49:09 PM »
(http://img.iht.com/images/2008/03/29/physics550.jpg)

Try this headline: Black Hole Eats Earth
http://iht.com/articles/2008/03/29/europe/physics.php

More strife in Iraq. U.S. financial system in crisis. Rice prices soar.

None of these headlines will matter a bit, though, if two men pursuing a lawsuit in a court in Hawaii turn out to be right. They think a giant particle accelerator that will begin smashing protons together outside Geneva this summer might produce a black hole that will spell the end of the Earth - and maybe the universe.

Scientists say that is very unlikely - though they have done some checking just to make sure.

The world's physicists have spent 14 years and $8 billion building the Large Hadron Collider, in which the colliding protons will recreate energies and conditions last seen a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. Researchers will sift the debris from these primordial recreations for clues to the nature of mass and new forces and symmetries of nature.

But Walter Wagner and Luis Sancho contend that scientists at the European Center for Nuclear Research, or CERN, have played down the chances that the collider could produce, among other horrors, a tiny black hole, which, they say, could eat the Earth. Or it could spit out something called a "strangelet" that would convert our planet to a shrunken dense dead lump of something called "strange matter." Their suit also says CERN has failed to provide an environmental impact statement as required under the U.S. National Environmental Policy Act.

Although it sounds bizarre, the case touches on a serious issue that has bothered scholars and scientists in recent years - namely how to estimate the risk of new groundbreaking experiments and who gets to decide whether or not to go ahead.

The lawsuit, filed March 21 in U.S. District Court in Honolulu, seeks a temporary restraining order prohibiting CERN from proceeding with the accelerator until it has produced a safety report and an environmental assessment. It names the U.S. Department of Energy, the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, the National Science Foundation and CERN as defendants.

According to a spokesman for the Justice Department, which is representing the Department of Energy, a scheduling meeting has been set for June 16.

Why should CERN, an organization of European nations based in Switzerland, even show up in a Hawaiian courtroom?

In an interview, Wagner said, "I don't know if they're going to show up." CERN would have to voluntarily submit to the court's jurisdiction, he said, adding that he and Sancho could have sued in France or Switzerland, but to save expenses they had added CERN to the docket here. He claimed that a restraining order on Fermilab and the Energy Department, which helps to supply and maintain the accelerator's massive superconducting magnets, would shut down the project anyway.

James Gillies, head of communications at CERN, said the laboratory as of yet had no comment on the suit. "It's hard to see how a district court in Hawaii has jurisdiction over an intergovernmental organization in Europe," Gillies said.

"There is nothing new to suggest that the LHC is unsafe," he said, adding that its safety had been confirmed by two reports, with a third on the way, and would be the subject of a discussion during an open house at the lab on April 6.

"Scientifically, we're not hiding away," he said.

But Wagner is not mollified. "They've got a lot of propaganda saying it's safe," he said in an interview, "but basically it's propaganda."

In an e-mail message, Wagner called the CERN safety review "fundamentally flawed" and said it had been initiated too late. The review process violates the European Commission's standards for adhering to the "Precautionary Principle," he wrote, "and has not been done by 'arms length' scientists."

Physicists in and out of CERN say a variety of studies, including an official CERN report in 2003, have concluded there is no problem. But just to be sure, last year the anonymous Safety Assessment Group was set up to do the review again.

"The possibility that a black hole eats up the Earth is too serious a threat to leave it as a matter of argument among crackpots," said Michelangelo Mangano, a CERN theorist who said he was part of the group. The others prefer to remain anonymous, Mangano said, for various reasons. Their report was due in January.

This is not the first time around for Wagner. He filed similar suits in 1999 and 2000 to prevent the Brookhaven National Laboratory from operating the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider. That suit was dismissed in 2001. The collider, which smashes together gold ions in the hopes of creating what is called a "quark-gluon plasma," has been operating without incident since 2000.

Wagner, who lives on the Big Island of Hawaii, studied physics and did cosmic ray research at the University of California, Berkeley, and received a doctorate in law from what is now known as the University of Northern California in Sacramento. He subsequently worked as a radiation safety officer for the Veterans Administration.

Sancho, who describes himself as an author and researcher on time theory, lives in Spain, probably in Barcelona, Wagner said.

Doomsday fears have a long, if not distinguished, pedigree in the history of physics. At Los Alamos before the first nuclear bomb was tested, Emil Konopinski was given the job of calculating whether or not the explosion would set the atmosphere on fire.

Lisa Randall, a Harvard physicist whose work helped fuel the speculation about black holes at the collider, pointed out in a paper last year that black holes would not be produced at the collider after all, although other effects of so-called quantum gravity might appear.

As part of the safety assessment report, Mangano and Steve Giddings of the University of California, Santa Barbara, have been working intensely for the last few months on a paper exploring the possibilities of black holes. They think there are no problems but are reluctant to talk about their findings until they have been reviewed, Mangano said.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Black hole may eat Earth
« on: March 29, 2008, 07:49:09 PM »

Offline one

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 10:35:42 PM »
I am  confused  about this

I thought that  scientists   don't  believe in  OU

Now  some of them  are   trying  to keep  a  big atom smasher  from starting  up  because it  will  be  way OU

Why  can't they make up their minds?   


:)


gary 

Offline Localjoe

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2008, 10:47:38 PM »
If anyone watches the series Eureka on sci- fi .. Its scary how we see stuff like this in tv before the news and the striking similarity.. they devoted a whole episode to a device like this that was studying the same thign and almost destroyed everything.  >>I mean the exact topic... weird

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2008, 10:47:38 PM »
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Offline powercat

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2008, 11:30:27 PM »
if it works replication will be difficult

pc

Offline sparks

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2008, 12:05:40 AM »
   What a total waste of human rescources.   They should put these idiots,  who insist on smashing matter,  into a spaceship heading for the sun so they can experience high energy matter first hand,  They can take alot of paper with them so they can write down their incomprehensible mathmatical formulaes that no one gives a shit about and toss them out right before they hit the Corona.  This may help the guys back on Earth figure out that the Corona is incoming energy from the aetheric potential energy waves.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2008, 12:05:40 AM »
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Offline Bulbz

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2008, 12:30:54 AM »
   What a total waste of human rescources.   They should put these idiots,  who insist on smashing matter,  into a spaceship heading for the sun so they can experience high energy matter first hand,  They can take alot of paper with them so they can write down their incomprehensible mathmatical formulaes that no one gives a shit about and toss them out right before they hit the Corona.  This may help the guys back on Earth figure out that the Corona is incoming energy from the aetheric potential energy waves.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 12:42:46 AM »

The earth may turn into a black hole though...if changes aren't made.

Ah, if one had the power of invisibility...and the means to whisper into selected ears in the middle of the night...oh the changes that could be made.

And of course, by necessity the 'one whisper and you're out' method would be employed. :)

Regards...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 12:42:46 AM »
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Offline buzneg

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2008, 01:09:48 AM »
If smashing two atoms together causes a nuclear chain reaction, I wonder what doing it with two protons would do.

Offline HopeForHumanity

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2008, 06:43:01 AM »
I believe it causes the release of virtual particles and anti-particles, or something like that... But nothing of any use.... currently that is... he he

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2008, 06:43:01 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline PulsedPower

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 12:25:01 PM »
Sensationalism, the energy produced in a collision in this machine is  between 3 and 6 orders of magnitude lower than what occurs in our atmosphere when high energy cosmic rays collide with atmospheric particles.. As for it being useless, difficult to say at present, pushing new frontiers often brings new discoveries though this machine is looking for the Higgs boson to validate a major theory of physics.


Offline Gearhead

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 04:53:01 PM »
Tesla did experiments with resonant electricity at the frequency of the earth without apparent fear of what the consequences may have been.  The first atom bomb was a gamble because they did not know if the atomic reaction would stop or consume the whole atmosphere.  When going into new territory the actual risks are unknown because we have not gone there before.

Certainly tinkering with the origins and creation of the universe must have some inherent risks.  We do not have the foreknowledge of God who was able to create in six days.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 04:53:01 PM »
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Offline powercat

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2009, 10:57:05 PM »
Hadron Collider goes Back to the Future
Two scientists have hypothesized in a series of papers that the LHC's stated aim of finding the Higgs boson might be so abhorrent to nature that mysterious forces are traveling back through time and sabotaging the experiment before it can succeed.
============================
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/technology-blog/2009/10/large_hadron_collider_goes_bac.html

cat

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2009, 11:51:10 PM »
Sad to hear that a scientist died in action, well, in an accident.
But when it's suppression from the future (excluding present time poltergeists wo could be really p'd off from these odd cosmical experiments), the real question is : "Is it the good, or the bad guys working against this?".

I watched Nassim Haramein's lectures (he also lived or still lives on the Great Island of Hawaii) on Youtube. Some of it was far-fetched, some of it was so obvious, it makes you wonder what took him, or any human, to come up with it. He offers a smarter solution to the big bang, and offers a shape and energy dynamics for the universe, galaxies, down to an atom. I think it was Nassim who ridiculed the experiments intended in this 10-digit priced tunnel. It is perhaps a bit text book science to try and get a partical to make a full circel, let alone at relativistic velocity, when so many signs point to the spiral as the natural, no-friction path of a particle.

If the project is tempered with, is it the often-mentioned illuminati's great grand sons, trying to revive their dynasty bottom-up, starting with the greatest discovery of man-kind that set in motion the freedom of science and man? Uhuh.
Or, if it's the bad guys, it must be those little green man in the saucers. They've been eyeing us for decades, and when they felt it was time to intervein, they pushed over a cabinet, and placed some particles that would confuse us for years.

I think history of science is not at its first riddle here, where measurements don't seem to add up. Well, all our "understanding" of the universe is based on measurements, sightings, and dynamics that just don't add up.

Haramein's (or at least mine of his) understanding of black holes though, is not just that of implosion, but always always with an explosion on the back side. We only see the back side, apparently. Not can a human created black hole of that porportion (tiny inital mass?) each up the earth? I'm not sure it has the energy for it. Not that I'm anyone's expert, but in the lack of bike sized matter in that tunnel (not even air?), the tiny singularity may not have a long life.
But if that makes it alright to do the experiment?

Very frightning indeed, that the atomic bomb was a gamble. They expected a bi mess, but didn't per se expect anyone to live, but just had to know...

Offline powercat

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Re: Black hole may eat Earth
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 02:50:53 PM »
Hi Cloxxki
The theory is interesting and as long as the collider is not working, who can say it's not right.
I once read about a scientist who believe his machine could send a particle back in time,
the problem was that when he turned on his machine he should be receiving his answer before he sent his question/particle ;D
as I didn't hear any more on this story presumably it was unsuccessful

cat

 

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