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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: JimH on September 26, 2009, 08:07:13 PM
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Hi all,
I've built a 2 x tube hho dry cell - the inner tube has a insulated transition metal core - the outer tube has another type of transition metal clamped to it? I'm able to switch the power on and off at a 2/4 seconds interval without, (seemingly), loss of production... or so minimal I can't see it? Even the production looks far better than using plates - this is in rainwater (acidic, I know)... no other additives?
Can you look at this video & the others and advise please
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dmaoOHivQ
I hope this is the correct link, I'm not very good at this ;D
Many thanks
JimH
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Nice set!
It should be hard to measure difference in gas production between continiously on, and your preferred on/off duty cycle pattern.
A sandwich bag placed over the top of the cell with an elastic band. See how low you need to fill it up. Don't pressurize, and be safe with sparks, of course. At your production rate now, a simple small plastic bag would do. I've seen a smarter setup with a tube and rising plastic bottle.
If you get more volume per second of "ON", you just may have something there. Next step would be to verify battery life each way, of course.
Might the seemingly small difference in short OFF moments be due to the bubbles still underway to the surface?
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Hi ,
It looks like electrolysis to me , did you measure the gas ?
The real cool thing about HHO is that it works with GEET , much to discover still . It is like a free battery also . A resonant cell is difficult to achieve , but I am still trying .
GEET is an FE device on its own under the right circumstances . It does some pretty spectacular things .
see the progress @ ionizationx.com
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.... Next step would be to verify battery life each way, of course.
.....
If turning it on and off will negativly influence the battery, that could easaly be solved by having two (or maybe even more!) systems at one battery. Switching between them would have the battery run continues and besides that it would also double the output (If the claim stands up)
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the inner tube has a insulated transition metal core - the outer tube has another type of transition metal clamped to it?
One of your electrodes is insulated? Did I understand that right? What is the insulation material? I assume that there must be some submerged part of it which is not insulated, otherwise you wouldn't be pulling current...
I'm able to switch the power on and off at a 2/4 seconds interval without, (seemingly), loss of production... or so minimal I can't see it? Even the production looks far better than using plates - this is in rainwater (acidic, I know)...
Perhaps there is considerable capacitance between the rainwater medium and the insulated tube. The insulation would be acting as the dielectric. During the "off" cycles, the capacitor discharges its stored energy. You might want to hook the cell up to an oscilloscope if you have one of those, and look for a decaying exponential during the "off" cycle.
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P.S. A common feature of many efficient electrolyzers seems to be a capacitor-like configuration of the electrodes; I suspect that a strongly polarized electric field within the aqueous medium-- especially near the electrode surfaces--facilitates electrolysis. The bigger the E-field, the better (up to a point) is my humble guess. I am just guessing, tho-- all of my electrolysis experiments have been fairly crude and low-tech-- just a way to generate some H2 and 02 for fun. (I made some liquid oxygen this way once, by feeding the oxygen stream into a test tube cooled with liquid nitrogen. Liquid oxygen is blue, VERY chemically reactive, and floats in a magnetic field!)
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Nice set!
(It was just a quick mock-up to see if it would work)
It should be hard to measure difference in gas production between continiously on, and your preferred on/off duty cycle pattern.
A sandwich bag placed over the top of the cell with an elastic band. See how low you need to fill it up. Don't pressurize, and be safe with sparks, of course. At your production rate now, a simple small plastic bag would do. I've seen a smarter setup with a tube and rising plastic bottle.
If you get more volume per second of "ON", you just may have something there. Next step would be to verify battery life each way,
(I'll try this)
of course.
Might the seemingly small difference in short OFF moments be due to the bubbles still underway to the surface?
(I had thought of this but have discounted it as the volume of gas is too great - I have tapped the sides for quicker release but it still takes the same time to drop off (over 5/6 sec) - definitely stored energy/charge in the inner core)
JimH
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If turning it on and off will negativly influence the battery, that could easaly be solved by having two (or maybe even more!) systems at one battery. Switching between them would have the battery run continues and besides that it would also double the output (If the claim stands up)
This was my thoughts exactly - or even a larger/wider core (the core will outlive me by a few thousand years+) - I've been able on many occasions to achieve a capacitor type cell (stored spurious voltage) using closely packed S/S plates but this is the first time (I believe), I have managed to store usable Volts/amps? I was going to build a simple flipflop circuit to demonstrate ON/OFF or perhaps a car 12v flasher unit - I'll try whichever uses the least energy, as the circuit would also have to be included in any efficiency test.
JimH
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Hi ,
It looks like electrolysis to me , did you measure the gas ?
(I'm a fair bit away from doing a test, but it is good - I want to maximise storage first, yeah, I know, time wise it could take forever ;D)
The real cool thing about HHO is that it works with GEET , much to discover still . It is like a free battery also . A resonant cell is difficult to achieve , but I am still trying .
GEET is an FE device on its own under the right circumstances . It does some pretty spectacular things .
see the progress @ ionizationx.com
(I'll definitely be having a look)
JimH
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One of your electrodes is insulated? Did I understand that right? What is the insulation material? I assume that there must be some submerged part of it which is not insulated, otherwise you wouldn't be pulling current...
Perhaps there is considerable capacitance between the rainwater medium and the insulated tube. The insulation would be acting as the dielectric. During the "off" cycles, the capacitor discharges its stored energy. You might want to hook the cell up to an oscilloscope if you have one of those, and look for a decaying exponential during the "off" cycle.
Sorry about the mess of my replies they are all over the place - first time for a long time on a forum :-[
The core is insulated inside the inner S/S tube, touching it's inner walls - one leg of the supply is forced through the inner core (it doesn't directly touch the tube inner wall), to complete the circuit - it is completely isolated from the water. The inner core has the ability to store neutrons.
I agree completely with your capacitor Like theory - but it would take one hell of a big capacitor to keep a cell producing for 6+ sec's after switch off, I think most of us have tried them and quickly discarded them.
JimH
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One thing you can eventually do is compare what you are
finding in rain water with what happens in distilled water.
Or with distilled water with some small measure of electrolyte
(acid or base).
Water from all natural sources has unknown chemistry.
This prevents repeatability by anyone else. Lets say
you find some behavior that is unique and potentially
valuable. Without knowing how what you are doing
effects a constant you risk creating non-repeatability
in your own experiments and potentially a high degree
of subsequent frustration trying to find it again. When
the next guy tries it, and it doesn't work because of
unique local chemistry you will be left with credability
problems. Sound familiar?
:S:MarkSCoffman
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One thing you can eventually do is compare what you are
finding in rain water with what happens in distilled water.
Or with distilled water with some small measure of electrolyte
(acid or base).
Water from all natural sources has unknown chemistry.
This prevents repeatability by anyone else. Lets say
you find some behavior that is unique and potentially
valuable. Without knowing how what you are doing
effects a constant you risk creating non-repeatability
in your own experiments and potentially a high degree
of subsequent frustration trying to find it again. When
the next guy tries it, and it doesn't work because of
unique local chemistry you will be left with credability
problems. Sound familiar?
:S:MarkSCoffman
It sounds like Darwin at its best :)
-
One thing you can eventually do is compare what you are
finding in rain water with what happens in distilled water.
Or with distilled water with some small measure of electrolyte
(acid or base).
Water from all natural sources has unknown chemistry.
This prevents repeatability by anyone else. Lets say
you find some behavior that is unique and potentially
valuable. Without knowing how what you are doing
effects a constant you risk creating non-repeatability
in your own experiments and potentially a high degree
of subsequent frustration trying to find it again. When
the next guy tries it, and it doesn't work because of
unique local chemistry you will be left with credability
problems. Sound familiar?
:S:MarkSCoffman
Hi Mark,
It certainly does - I took you advice and used distilled water with a little baking soda & found this cell is most economical at 4v/00.25amp (as opposed to 13.85v/00.68amp - max with my power supply), same solution.
I also tried adding extra transition rods (outwith the inner core) in series... they drained the inner core... not what I hoped for, reckon they have to be inside the cell for the reaction??
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Hello again everyone - thanks for your info...
I have a few questions... no pie in the sky please ;D
1) What would be an reasonable efficiency (%) output expected from an HHO cell... Just an average example... couple of plates/tubes, some electrolyte I/V...
2) The cell I've built holds 2/3v for 10min+ after shut down, cables disconnected... it will gradually drop away, quite some time after... it produces minuscule bubbles during this time which like the Voltage gradually drop away (I'm aware the bubbles might just be what's clinging to the walls of the cell).
My question is... Is this voltage/I spurious (unusable), or can this voltage/I be regarded as a constant... If I'm using 5v at 1amp and switching (part second) on and off, am I still using 5v/I or am I topping up with 2 or 3v/I... if topping up, should this V/I be subtracted during efficiency test??? That is:- off load = no v/I on load = 2 or 3v/I instead of 5v/I. I'm probably being really stupid with this question but it's bugging me? ;D ;D
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Hello everyone - I need your help & suggestions with my cell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilmBGp6WARA
I can't understand why it gets no warmer than tepid - 6.48amps @ 6.3volts for over two hour running - it's an absolutely tiny cell - I don't know if it's the Cadmium rods or Titanium/carbon rods or the shape of the cell, but it should be boiling the electrolyte... it's not?
Appreciate your help
JimH
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actually developing new methods of H2O2 would be more productive, if it can be produced cheaply then H2O2 would be the perfect candidate for future energy production because you only need a catalyst like silver or palladium to split the molecule for releasing energy.
knock down the price of H2O2(Hydrogen Peroxide) and you will have achieved saving this world from the oil mongers.
it is the new path.
Jerry ;)
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learn to make Hydrogen peroxide 'cheaper' and you could be using the power and efficiency of H2O2.
this is just 60% by volume H2O2;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_MPU2mg8CA
the only pollutant is water vapor.
Jerry 8)