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Author Topic: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model  (Read 205965 times)

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #165 on: November 03, 2009, 09:23:09 PM »
All very nice and complicated, but the inventor stated that a tail fin would also turn the magnet, at the cost of a bit air drag. If this air drag is less than the array's gain, by all means use that! You get the same weight distribution, just as the cost of a bit of drag, rather than under suspicion of possible gain from the turning device itself.
The gain in the servo assisted video is huge. Seems a smartly cut tail should not spoil that party, if indeed the servo input doesn't enhance the swing significantly now.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline spoondini

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #166 on: November 04, 2009, 01:03:54 AM »
   OU could be proved via purely mechanical (tail fin or counter weights to turn the magnets) or electrical (servo).  When electronics come into play watts in vs watts out come into play.  AC readings on output can and probably will make OU a tricky subject until verified by some 'credible' source (it's like groundhogs day on many OU stories which are precipitated by honest misreadings). 

It really depends on how comfortable you are with electronics vs mechanical engineering.  Pick your poison, they both present their own challenges.  Impressed with the mechanical work up to date.  Best of luck.

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #167 on: November 04, 2009, 01:22:39 AM »

Synchro1,
I like what you are saying. Flip vertically instead of horizontal. Using a small slotted lever to push/pull forward.
Is it like this? 

The auto door lock pop would probably cut the energy time by 50% or more

There is another possible method that is has been weighing on my mind.
Sometimes called the Smart Alloy, Muscle Wire or Memory Metal, is an alloy that "remembers" it shape. You can reshape the wire, but when temputure is applyed it returns to the preset shape.

Here are some videos of the alloy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k20J4NDgAYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuHDFuDQ1PI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9f-W6Xi_Wo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrsx6f4HrSE

Regards,
Howard

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #167 on: November 04, 2009, 01:22:39 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #168 on: November 04, 2009, 03:57:01 AM »
Here you go Howard, how about this:

I am going to add some "colour commentary" for you:

When the mercury switches trigger the solenoids to fire they will rotate the magnet by 180 degrees.  You want to fire the solenoids with just enough energy to make the 180 degree turn and no more than that.  Therefore you want to use a transistor to fire each solenoid where the pulse width is timed by a 555 timer setup.  You can use the CMOS version of the 555 timer and use very small timing capacitors and a very large timing resistors to reduce the power consumption of the 555 timing setup to almost zero.  Therefore the only real energy you will use is to fire the transistor, and you keep the firing time of the pulse to a bare minimum.  The solenoid only has to "launch" the rotating magnet on its trajectory to the opposite depression in the metal plate where it will remain locked in place until the the next half cycle starts and the opposite solenoid does the same thing.  The magnet is basically pseudo "coasting" as it rotates around the 180 degrees.

This is basically a ping-pong game between two solenoids that are the "bats" and the magnet is the "ball."  The game is being played as slowly as possible so as to use the least amount of energy possible.

There is one minor complication related to the sloshing mercury in the mercury switches.  You don't want to accidentally trigger the solenoids twice.  Therefore you need at least three 555 timers, one each to time the pulse for each direction and a third 555 timer that is the "lockout" timer that will prevent any retriggering for about one (?) second once the first trigger fires.  You figure after about one second you are guaranteed the sloshing mercury will not generate a second trigger.

So to do this you need a quad CMOS 555 timer ship and a one or two CMOS flip-flop chips and perhaps a few CMOS logic gates.  Using this setup more than 99.999% of the battery energy will be used to fire the transistors and power the solenoids and less than 0.001% will be used for your timing circuit.  For all of this to work the magnet has to be perfectly balanced in its housing.

To make it as efficient as possible the ends of the solenoid plungers should not have any rubber bumpers on them because the rubber will dissipate energy.

If you have access to a machine shop and know your stuff or know somebody that knows his stuff  the mechanical stuff should be doable.  Drilling a shaft through the center of the magnet should be doable but would have to be done very very slowly, or perhaps you can find a stock magnet that already has a central shaft that is already perfectly balanced.  I am not so sure about the ball bearing setup, it could actually be a small wheel on a good bearing with a spring-loaded fulcrum, or some variation on the theme.  I am not a mechanical guy but I have to assume that somebody would be able to build this without having to go overboard.  If you know about electronics, the timing circuit is trivial and could be breadboarded in a day.

One last thing, you have to drill a shaft that's mirror-image to the shaft that is used to hold the spring-loaded ball bearing.  I did not show that in the drawing.  That's really debatable though.  You could balance the magent some other way if you wanted.

Then there is another interesting school of thought that just occured to me.  You could intentionally keep the magnet unbalanced so that when you are at the end of the swing the magnet wants to "fall" down.  In this case the solenoid will need even less energy when it fires because the magent will "fall" into place and lock after it rotates by 180 degrees.  So in this case you are using gravity to "help" the rotation process along.  In this case you will use less battery energy, with the trade off that you are now drawing some of the gravitational potential energy out of the pendulum.  Every time the magent is "released" by the solenoid and "falls" into the opposite 180 drgree position, you are lowering the center of gravity of the magent system but just a tiny bit - and that represents sucking some energy out of the pendulum.

Just adding a few more thoughts.  Something similar to what I am describing probably already exists in real life as an off the shelf part.  It would be some sort of mounting for something that will "click" in one of two positions that are 180 degrees apart.  Some sort of an actutator system that would be used in factory automation or process control.  The finer and more delicate the mechanism, then chances are the more expensive it will get.  Something that you could simply mount your magnet on top of and then build something to hold the solenoids in place, etc.  With enough Google searching, you could probably find something that will work.

An off the shelf part may have some sort of spring tension mechanism so that you could adjust the "stickyness" for when the setup clicks into place.  You need just enough "stickyness" so that the magnet will not "unstick" itself as it experiences torque as it passes through the array.  The lower the "stickyness" setting, the less energy you have to put into the solenoid to "launch" the magent through its 180 degree rotation.

My original point still stands, when the magnet rotates it will be fighting against the external magnetic field from the array and a little bit of energy will have to be expended to do this.

Also, every time the magnet rotates, you are expending energy to "launch" it and put rotational energy into the mass of the magnet.  When the magnet "lands" in the depression 180 degrees away, this rotational energy is lost forever.  Therefore in theory you would like the magnet to rotate as slowly as possible to reduce the amount of energy lost for this step in the process.

Ultimately you could tune all of the paramaters just right so the minimum amount of energy is expended to do the 180 degree rotation.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 05:14:46 AM by MileHigh »

Offline poynt99

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #169 on: November 04, 2009, 05:18:09 AM »
Good stuff MH.

Howard,

Reluctance to perform a test without the magnet array is either out of fear, or arrogance, or a combination of both. That's pure emotion--it's not science.

Please set your emotions aside for a brief moment and consider running a test without the array present to observe how it behaves. That would be science. Surely you must also be curious?

Give it a go--the worst that can happen is you gain more insight into the various interactions going on :)

.99

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #169 on: November 04, 2009, 05:18:09 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #170 on: November 04, 2009, 05:27:40 AM »
Hey Poynt,

Thank ya'll v'ry much.  Thank ya very much.

I have a sobering final comment for everybody about this or any other magnet flipping setup and it is this:

You are basically building a big "pendulum motor" when you do this.  That's it.

A New Age Metronome.

MileHigh

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #171 on: November 04, 2009, 02:49:37 PM »

One way to keep from having to rotate the magnetic end at the top of the staff;

Have both polarity magnetic ends on the staff shaped like a "Y" and have the
the "Y" "fall over" to a position one of it's magnetic arms vs the other only at the
end of the pendulum's range. It could almost be made to fall over by itself and
would only need to be locked in place electronically. There was a post by Billmehess
that showed only a surprisingly small amount of angular misalignment was required to
keep an unused magnetic field stowed out of the way.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #171 on: November 04, 2009, 02:49:37 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Motor generator.
« Reply #172 on: November 04, 2009, 07:30:30 PM »
The YOG is a motor generator. Howard's clever adaptation of the Lever Pitman mechanism allows the switch and hammer throw to help accelerate momentum at at very efficient exchange rate. Really nested pendulum's. This hammer throw motor assist method, triggered at the apogees, is not
a disadvantage, but an innovative way to transfer electric power into stored momentum. The lever can be lengthened, and the end of the square slot opened. Lever and Pitman are a Scottish invention to transfer the linear piston motion of the steam engine into rotary flywheel motion.

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #173 on: November 05, 2009, 02:21:40 AM »

@mscoffman,
Good point, although the step function does need to step forward to the travel direction. The “Y” configuration would save energy by another 50%.

Energy for 90 degrees is half the energy for 180 degrees.    8)


@All,
I want to share a test result that I did in the past. When I was running the YOG to get some data. I had planned on using end stops to keep the drive magnet from hitting my floor’s tile.

I was looking for something I can use as a damper, some thing I could use to absorb the excess kinetic energy. While I was digging through my garage hoping to find some stiff springs. I found two rubber bungee cords.

When I placed the rubber cords on both ends of the swing, above the floor to catch the lever. What happened was very comforting.

The lever ended up bouncing off the rubber cords increasing the speed of the YOG to a point where the servos would not keep up with the speeds. The drive magnet wasn’t able to turn fast enough and eventually smashed against the frame breaking off the drive magnet. It cost me a servo but was well worth it. Imaging what kind of speeds I could of achieved if only I had a faster servo.    ;D

Cheers
Howard 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #173 on: November 05, 2009, 02:21:40 AM »
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Offline winsonali

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #174 on: November 05, 2009, 02:39:46 AM »
wonderfull keep it up

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #175 on: November 05, 2009, 09:11:08 AM »
@mscoffman,
Good point, although the step function does need to step forward to the travel direction. The “Y” configuration would save energy by another 50%.

Energy for 90 degrees is half the energy for 180 degrees.    8)


@All,
I want to share a test result that I did in the past. When I was running the YOG to get some data. I had planned on using end stops to keep the drive magnet from hitting my floor’s tile.

I was looking for something I can use as a damper, some thing I could use to absorb the excess kinetic energy. While I was digging through my garage hoping to find some stiff springs. I found two rubber bungee cords.

When I placed the rubber cords on both ends of the swing, above the floor to catch the lever. What happened was very comforting.

The lever ended up bouncing off the rubber cords increasing the speed of the YOG to a point where the servos would not keep up with the speeds. The drive magnet wasn’t able to turn fast enough and eventually smashed against the frame breaking off the drive magnet. It cost me a servo but was well worth it. Imaging what kind of speeds I could of achieved if only I had a faster servo.    ;D

Cheers
Howard

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #175 on: November 05, 2009, 09:11:08 AM »
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Offline tinu

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #176 on: November 05, 2009, 08:33:39 PM »
...
I suggest you see the videos first. Then on the one cycle video ask yourself is their a gain from the magnetic array. This will be your foundation for argument with out getting past that point your arguments will have no relevance.

One cycle   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gekDM8vg16k
Gain video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq5r08eqgsk


@Howard,

There is no energy gain.

The extra movement in the first movie comes from extra energy provided by your hand in form of potential magnetic energy when placing the lever with magnet at the starting point. This action requires from your side a significantly larger effort as when placing the lever without magnet, even if both levers are otherwise identical (i.e. having the same mass, size etc)

The extra movement in the second movie obviously comes from the batteries, through the electric motor (servo) that increases the same potential energy of magnet at the end of the lever in respect to the array of stationary magnets.

I appreciate your perseverance but I humbly suggest you to study potential energy, then magnetism and conservative fields. Examples of failed similar contraptions are plenty into this forum. Yours is similar with SMOT, which could not be properly understood by a certain “physics professor” that made our life miserably around here several years ago.

Cheers,
Tinu

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #177 on: November 06, 2009, 01:06:38 AM »
Tinu,

Your response is incorrect. I believe you have not made it past the point of the one cycle video.

How can you say I applied more energy positioning the lever of equal length and mass?

Especially when the gravitational potential energy is the same at the start point.

Have you even read the past post on this thread.

Howard

Offline tinu

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #178 on: November 06, 2009, 03:44:41 PM »
...
How can you say I applied more energy positioning the lever of equal length and mass?

Especially when the gravitational potential energy is the same at the start point.

...

Howard,

I say so because it is as simple as that.
The proof is in your hands yet I understand why your mind will reject it.

A simple experiment to provide anyone with the evidence: side-by-side place the two levers (both of equal mass and dimensions but one with and one without magnet) elastically hanging from the ceiling or from another appropriate support so that levers can both swing with ease in a vertical plane, like a simple pendulum, but they can not rotate around their axis. When preparing this simple setup, let the free end of the levers (and the magnet for the lever that has it) be approximately in the same position relative to the stationary array of magnets as it was when letting them oscillate from the starting point, as in your movies.
By conducting the above experiment you will see that, at equilibrium, the non-magnetic lever stays vertical (it simply hangs down) but the magnetic one is feeling repulsion from the stationary magnetic array and therefore it will prefer to stay away from the vertical and further from the stationary magnetic array.
Now push the magnetic lever so it becomes vertical, as the non-magnetic one. Here is most of the extra energy you need to provide (aware of it or not, you provide it all the time), energy that you can now feel it and see it, in the simplest and most practical way I could come up with. In reality the extra energy applied is higher than that.
In short and in order to reply to the second line also: gravitational potential energy is the same but magnetic potential energy is not, hence total potential energy is not the same. Because total potential energy is different (higher in the ‘magnetic case’), it is perfectly natural that the amplitude of oscillations is different.

Hit me if I wasn’t clear enough.
If it’s technically uncomfortable to prepare the above-suggested setup, I can come up with a similar test that would only require the proper adjustment of the counter-balance weight that is attached to the wheel.

A movie would be instructive and fun.

Cheers,
Tinu

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Yu oscillating Generator ---- Overunity YOG Model
« Reply #179 on: November 06, 2009, 07:55:22 PM »

Tinu,
Your contradicting yourself.


In short and in order to reply to the second line also: gravitational potential energy is the same but magnetic potential energy is not, hence total potential energy is not the same. Because total potential energy is different (higher in the ‘magnetic case’), it is perfectly natural that the amplitude of oscillations is different.

In the one cycle video both levers are entering the array with the same amount of energy. The drive magnet is too far away from the array to make any difference at the start point. I guess this is when experience comes into play.

Before you suggest to the inventor, to study potential energy, then magnetism and conservative fields. I believe you should first.

If you did not see the video of OC’s great contribution post on this thread that he ask adminonduty to do. Here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP_o1_jBUSM

The experiment you are requesting is has been done in a different way on the one cycle video. The trigger stick hold up the weight serves that purpose and also the tape mark where I used the clip to hold the pipe does as well.

Bottom line you get a gain from the magnetic array vs no array.   
If you need further proof you can at any time do these experiments yourself.

Howard

 

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