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Author Topic: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment  (Read 16939 times)

Offline pese

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YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« on: September 08, 2009, 10:43:29 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNmmBib3aI     Erweitertes Michelson-Morley Experiment 2009, Deutsche Version

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T0d7o8X2-E  You are invited to view this documentary about the extended Michelson-Morley Interferometer experiment on Youtube!

 Was given today at YT from my frend Martin.
Please load it down to your harddisk  with "keepvid".
Pese

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Offline armagdn03

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 11:54:52 PM »
Really great stuff Pese, thank you ;D

Offline Moab

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 12:57:47 AM »
Yes Thank-you much Pese.

that opens the door to a new way to observe a scalar function. im not so sure its never been done, But this is the first i've seen a laser used like this tho. very interesting stuff. mind bending  :)

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2009, 12:57:47 AM »
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Offline wings

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 09:24:44 AM »
great video  ;D ;D ;D

now what about Einstein special relativity?


Offline zerotensor

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 09:52:10 AM »
Wow, cool experiment.  I wonder if this is due to torque on the mirrors / beamsplitter from gravity.  If the optical elements were securely sandwiched between two plates instead of just one it would be more convincing.  11 fringes @ 532nm corresponds to 11*532 = 5852 nm of displacement between the two beam paths.  That is only 5.85 microns.  This displacement could easily be produced by gravitational torque, even with a very secure mount.

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2009, 09:52:10 AM »
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Offline pese

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2009, 11:07:03 AM »
Wow, cool experiment.  I wonder if this is due to torque on the mirrors / beamsplitter from gravity.  If the optical elements were securely sandwiched between two plates instead of just one it would be more convincing.  11 fringes @ 532nm corresponds to 11*532 = 5852 nm of displacement between the two beam paths.  That is only 5.85 microns.  This displacement could easily be produced by gravitational torque, even with a very secure mount.

Hi,

Many people ask for the gravity forces.

IF this is so.
it cant be possibel , the the "otical stripes" can change
the sense of tork, IF that come over ZERO (at 12:00 and 6:00)
Give attention  1:00to 5:00  and 7:00 to 11:00 the tork change
right to left turning the stripes

Pese

The German Version of that Vidio is now on 3. place in YT !!

Offline BEP

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 11:38:30 AM »
Excellent demonstration!

I suspect this is merely confirmation of light being bent by Coriolis force.
If so, then the reverse effect would be seen when the experiment is performed in the Southern hemisphere.

It would be interesting to know what is the experiment's orientation to Earth's magnetic poles and does the effect change with a different orientation?

BEP

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 11:38:30 AM »
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Offline pese

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2009, 11:52:05 AM »
Excellent demonstration!

I suspect this is merely confirmation of light being bent by Coriolis force.
If so, then the reverse effect would be seen when the experiment is performed in the Southern hemisphere.

It would be interesting to know what is the experiment's orientation to Earth's magnetic poles and does the effect change with a different orientation?

BEP

HI BEP.

YES, good Idea.

BUT THIS WAS TESTED.
( With on strong Neodym Magnet, directly in the near to the (only 10cm arms of equiplemnt.... It mak NO Differnce to the Inference-Strips.,will follow!
So the no any Magnetfield (als not of the earth) is the cause to this .

Gustav Pese


ADD:

Also not Gravity  is the cause.
The ZERO (Null) Point oft the turns (left to right) is not
at 0:00 ant 6:00.

I study the Vid and have seen this.

The Autor (Martin) say  the point are at about 1:30 and 7:30

AND CHANGE +/- 3 to 4 Degrees !! to the Time !! 
In Morning and Evening , the Zero point ist different !!

Very surprizing

« Last Edit: September 09, 2009, 04:01:42 PM by pese »

Offline zerotensor

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 12:08:58 PM »
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5852+nanometers

if the distance between the beam-paths move by an amount on this order of magnitude, then this could explain the effect.  I can imagine that this might occur when the interferometer is mounted vertically.  The experiment needs to be repeated with this in mind.  I recommend using interferometers held tightly between two plates.

Blood-cells and spider's silk are not very big...  We need to design the apparatus to make sure that the mirrors, laser, and beamsplitter do not sag under the influence of gravity.

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2009, 12:08:58 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2009, 12:31:05 PM »
Before possible magnetic effects are discounted the magnets should be removed from the experiment and the polar orientation changed in the experiment. I know this is hard to believe but there is a difference between the two fields. That discussion is for another thread.

Distortion by gravity is a valid thought. Distortion by several microns is indeed possible. This would occur where it is shown.

This is a consideration in fine laser alignment of precision machinery.

Offline BEP

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2009, 02:46:50 AM »
Before possible magnetic effects are discounted the magnets should be removed from the experiment and the polar orientation changed in the experiment. I know this is hard to believe but there is a difference between the two fields. That discussion is for another thread.

Distortion by gravity is a valid thought. Distortion by several microns is indeed possible. This would occur where it is shown.

This is a consideration in fine laser alignment of precision machinery.

I withdraw the above comments...

Preliminary attempts at replication discount common magnetic fields as a possible reason for the shift.
The original M-M experiment was reported as a null result in most texts. I found this to be untrue. There was a shift. It just wasn't the direction or amount expected. Most later commentary concludes the amount was outside the margin for error.

I must do better experiments but I am convinced this gentleman is correct.

BEP

P.S. Einsteinian worshiper flames will be ignored.

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2009, 02:46:50 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2009, 05:33:58 PM »
photons ride on the propegation of their own magnetic field.
this is why light is not affected by the magnetic field in most situations. the field surrounding the photon deflects external magnetic fields from interfering with the photon itself.

the observations in this video are likely to come from two sources.

the first being the possible movement of the equipment on their mounts.

the second being the measurable effects of gravity on the travel of light. - something which is not easily percievable in einsteinian experiments, but becomes readily visible when examining the effects on the interference patterns, or in photon-scattering experiments done with and without the presence of a gravitational field.

further testing would be required to rule out the movement of the equipment in this video.


Offline BEP

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 07:52:42 PM »
photons ride on the propegation of their own magnetic field.
this is why light is not affected by the magnetic field in most situations. the field surrounding the photon deflects external magnetic fields from interfering with the photon itself.

the observations in this video are likely to come from two sources.

the first being the possible movement of the equipment on their mounts.

the second being the measurable effects of gravity on the travel of light. - something which is not easily percievable in einsteinian experiments, but becomes readily visible when examining the effects on the interference patterns, or in photon-scattering experiments done with and without the presence of a gravitational field.

further testing would be required to rule out the movement of the equipment in this video.

All may be true but I have less than five microns deflection in my setup for the horizontal axis or points radial from it. Even when that is considered the pattern shift is extreme and the wrong direction. When locked-down (the machine I used has the ability to lock all axis) the shift slowly increases until midnight and decreases until noon.

Like I said... I need better experiments. If I am correct these shift distances will change with orientation to the Earth's rotational axis. Who knows? Maybe even moon orbital position?

The first test was rotation around a vertical axis. I found no measurable shift.... until I locked it down and walked away for dinner. 2 hours locked resulted in a measurable shift.

In any case.... all must be repeated on a calibrated granite slab in a controlled environment to be conclusive.

I still don't see any of this as proof of aether but I do want to know what proof I'm seeing.

Offline BEP

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 04:23:53 AM »
It seems my growing suspicions about the effects shown by Martin have exceeded the 'suspicion' stage for others long before me....

http://www.biochem.szote.u-szeged.hu/astrojan/munera.pdf

Martin,

Your expansion of the experiment is still unique.

If torsion by gravity was the cause there would be two angles, relative to the horizon, where we would see a shift reversal.

I think the scientific community should stop floating blocks of granite in mercury and start rotating the table about an horizontal axis.

I think M & M were wrong in what they expected. They were Earth-centric when they should have considered much more.

So 'space' is either leading or lagging mass by 45 degrees? My continued thoughts on this are much deeper and even more Einstein heretical so I'll stop here  ;)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: YourTube Extended Michelson-Morley Experiment
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 05:13:46 PM »
Zerotensor is fundamentally right about this one, but I am not so sure about his calculations.

The slab of aluminum deforms as the apparatus rotates vertically due to varying stresses on the frame because of the changing gravity field relative to the apparatus.  When the apparatus rotates horizontally the gravity field is constant and therefore the stresses on the frame are constant.

It is outrageous that the German experimenter didn't think of this and it makes his experiment pure junk science.  It is equally outrageous that he built this apparatus with such a huge flaw:  He did not take into account that the slab of aluminum that forms the miniature optical table would deform due to mechanical stress.

Here is a posting on his YouTube clip:

Quote
mrdualspace (5 days ago)

The evidence produced by this experiment is false. A fixed pattern of fringes is simply swept across the screen as the mirrors turn due to flexing of the frame. A true finding would show a changing of the spaces between the fringes, which doesn't happen.
I previously posted this and I see it's been removed.

Double junk science:  Comments that describe the humongous outrageous flaw in this experiment are being removed by the YouTube poster "Gruma09."

The author of this experiment should not be trusted as being able to generate credible data for any experiment that he does.  He built a junk apparatus and got junk results that he was not smart enough to interpret properly.  It is simply unacceptable.

MileHigh

 

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