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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: leeroyjenkinsii on September 07, 2009, 03:09:32 AM

Title: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: leeroyjenkinsii on September 07, 2009, 03:09:32 AM
Anyone?  Is there any news on this front?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: leeroyjenkinsii on September 07, 2009, 03:22:42 AM
By the way for those that don't think this was real I have a very simple repeatable experiment for you although it won't generate results as good.  Take a 20 oz plastic bottle cap and fill it with salt and water.  Put it in the microwave and watch it until it gets pretty near evaporation.  It will spark and flame up.  If the frequency were right then I bet it'd do the same as Kanzius.  I know the frequency for microwaves are much higher so.  By the way Kanzius experiment used 300 watts.  Also, I believe the reason the flame burned so brightly was because the radio waves were creating plasma from the  burning gas.  Just my two cents.

Try the microwave trick.  Really neat and won't mess up your microwave.  Has anyone here created a plasma ball in their microwave?  That's neat too...check it out on Youtube.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 07, 2009, 03:28:01 AM
Anyone?  Is there any news on this front?

it had lots of headlines but nobody helped, no contributions, no help what so ever, it will fall dead in its tracks like all the other non funded.

it takes finances to get it off the ground but nobody wants to part with their money to help the adventure.

a victim of finances is the common reality.

or we can just blame somebody else and call it a conspiracy! that sounds more fun don't it.

everyone who didn't help financially is responsible for what has not come to attention among the energy crowd.

hardly anybody today will not help to save their own lives for fear of some scam, blame that on internet crooks but you are still a victim of fear.

besides, John Kanzius solution is still not the answer to the worlds problems, only full band gap infrared solar voltaic at this point can solve the energy crisis because it uses all that wasted energy as energy!

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: mscoffman on September 08, 2009, 05:53:13 PM

it had lots of headlines but nobody helped, no contributions, no help what so ever, it will fall dead in its tracks like all the other non funded.


Not true...Reputable scientists did duplicated his exact experiments.
Just google it. Having an enclosed system do this could verify CF cold
fusion. What did not happen though, was any experiments to prove
overunity energy production.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 08, 2009, 06:53:37 PM
Not true...Reputable scientists did duplicated his exact experiments.
Just google it. Having an enclosed system do this could verify CF cold
fusion. What did not happen though, was any experiments to prove
overunity energy production.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Hi Mark.

did you invest in it? how many people or foundations do you know that funded the project?

the process made salt water burn not fuse. I have no evidence of any fusion reactions? where is your source? did it come from a peer reviewed document or literature stating that there were indications of a Fusion reaction taking place.

if there is a peer reviewed document stating any kind of fusion reaction taking place I sure missed it, I would like to study the document itself, if it exists. I love to study.

if you find any peer reviewed documentation of a fusion reaction with the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment then please post it here.

Jerry ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: EMdevices on September 09, 2009, 07:10:19 AM
Somebody else has picked up this research, his name is Dr. RUSTOM ROY

http://www.rustumroy.com/

Browse that link and you will reach one of his papers on burning salt water.  He uses a frequency of 13.59 MHz, and about 300 watts.

http://www.rustumroy.com/Scans/Observations%20of%20polarized%20MRI%20vol%2012%20is%201.pdf

EM
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 09, 2009, 07:26:56 AM
The problem with burning salt water is the disassociation of Chlorine into the atmosphere, Chlorine gas building up in the atmosphere might cause higher atmospheric corrosion problems and chlorine is a very very strong irritant for the lungs, eyes and mucous membranes.

I think it would cause problems if it went into mass production.

the project would have to eliminate the Salt from the water molecule.

chlorine would also rapidly corrode all parts that were not made inert to chlorine exposure.

Jerry :)
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: Farrah Day on September 09, 2009, 08:37:38 PM
Jerry, not sure what you're talking about with reference to financing the project. I have seen or heard nothing of investment opportunities.  After Kanzuius death, someone will surely have picked up and continued his work on the cancer research.

And as someone pointed out Professor R. Roy picked up on the saltwater burning phenomenon and continued experimenting. 

I've spoken to this guy, but he was not very forthcoming. Basically he just says keep checking out his web site for updates.

My key questions were:

Will any good electrolyte work or does it specifically need to be NaCl?

Is chlorine gas being evolved - if not do you know what gas or gases are?

He was very vague and did not answer any question specifically. I'm inclined to believe he will keep any new findings to himself until he devises a specific technology to make use of this phenomenon.

I know the power input is fairly irrelevant, as only a small proportion of the RF would be acting on a small test tube, and I'm not convinced it would provide OU. What is really interesting is, if hydrogen and oxygen (or chlorine) are being evolved, how are the ions exchanging charges without an exchange medium.  This is the real crux of the matter and why someone said it might be the most interesting discovery in the last 100 years. However, for this mean anything you have to understand how normal electrolysis works - then you will realise just how extraordinary this reaction appears.

Quote
The problem with burning salt water is the disassociation of Chlorine into the atmosphere, Chlorine gas building up in the atmosphere might cause higher atmospheric corrosion problems and chlorine is a very very strong irritant for the lungs, eyes and mucous membranes.

I think it would cause problems if it went into mass production.

the project would have to eliminate the Salt from the water molecule.

chlorine would also rapidly corrode all parts that were not made inert to chlorine exposure.

What do you mean eliminate the salt from the water molecule? The salt is a free ion, the water molecule is... well a molecule or cluster of molecules.

Furthermore, I doubt you could eliminate the salt at all as this is likely the reason the reaction occurs in the first place. And, as I've pointed out, it has yet to be established if chlorine is actually evolving at all. This is far from standard electrolysis, so I wouldn't necessarily expect the same gases to be evolving.

You will notice too, a steadily burning flame - try to get that from you electrolyser!
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: onthecuttingedge2005 on September 09, 2009, 09:00:35 PM
I think it needs to be placed in a gas analyzer to determine the Chlorine output of the reactions if any, I said what I said because it should be done to insure safety scientifically.

if the salt is truly remaining unchanged then I have no complaints but I have not heard of any documentation on the out gassing of the reaction using gas analyzers.

I don't mean by the human nose test, it has to be verified for enviromental saftey concerns. I don't want the whole world smelling like an over chlorinated swimming pool from +6 billion automobiles running on salt water inside 10 years.

Jerry :)
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: Cloxxki on September 11, 2009, 07:47:07 AM
Fascinating! And, it luckily made it to the news : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OklIm5a1Lc

Were the involved researchers contacted since? Surely, if they've come to their conclusions, they won't be able to sleep until they'v scaled this up, safely?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: dankie on September 11, 2009, 04:06:37 PM
There is nothing on his technique besides speculation .

From the looks of it , it is complex and expensive and requires much skill in the art .

You should forget about that thing seriously ... No patent to reverse-engineer , no nothing ...
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: mscoffman on September 11, 2009, 10:39:44 PM
Hi Mark.

did you invest in it? how many people or foundations do you know that funded the project?

the process made salt water burn not fuse. I have no evidence of any fusion reactions? where is your source? did it come from a peer reviewed document or literature stating that there were indications of a Fusion reaction taking place.

if there is a peer reviewed document stating any kind of fusion reaction taking place I sure missed it, I would like to study the document itself, if it exists. I love to study.

if you find any peer reviewed documentation of a fusion reaction with the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment then please post it here.

Jerry ;)

If water from water vapor is not returned to the "mix" then the build
-up of chlorine and sodium would begin to become a problem. This suggests
confining the media and the flame inside a glass container where water
vapor would condense and drain back into the mix, would be work and be
interesting to watch. Sodium ions would probably be captured in the flame
imparting a yellow color to the flame.

---

As to CF Cold fusion. Cold Fusion is *speculated* to happen when mechanical
photons are deposited into a hydrogen bearing liquid. I think the energy
deposited by RF waves at higher levels would be sufficient to initiate
cavitation bubbles. There is no large scale "metal matrix" like a platinum
electrode to act as a target for TCB terminal cavitation bubbles though
in this liquid. But something else may function as the target material, in this
case for example, sodium or chloride ions.

It would be very easy to submerge two glass containers and heat then
with identical powered RF waves in a "water" bath and see if one raised it's
bath to a different temperature than the other one.

As I have indicated previously, changing the D deuterium levels in
the fluid is very easy for scientists to do and would indicate whether
any extra energy is coming from the CF reaction of D^2. Light hydrogen
only would not CF fuse while pure D2O should create maximum CF
excess heat.

John Kanzius would have been speculating about any excess
energy but its somewhat possible that there actually might be
some.  Normal people, not understanding CF, only see CF at natural
deuterium/hydrogen isotopic ratios of .000625 deuterium atom to every
hydrogen atom. Worse because the CF D^2 reaction has
only .000625*.000625 probability. (a metal matrix may conduct the
electrical and mechanical fields of the collapsing TCB's to a place that has
the D^2 configuration ready to fuse.)

The experimental question one *might* be left with is; Why would
a water fluid containing more vs less deuterium hydrogen isotope
emit heat energies at very different levels when excited by the same
input energy waves? This would be highly suggestive that CF is
actually occurring. A negative result wouldn't say so much, and again
pure light water should not support any CF excess energy at all.

:S:MarkSCoffman

 
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: Sergh on October 31, 2020, 07:30:53 PM
A very important patent from a reputable source:
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102011081915A1/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102011081915A1/en)
There is an important point in it, the decomposition of water occurs in a thin water film.

Thin film ... many thin films .. many many very thin films ..
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 01, 2020, 10:52:21 AM
the thinnest films are in soap bubbles. And if you irradiate a bubble ..or foam ...
I'm really smart ... :P 8)
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: Sergh on November 01, 2020, 02:15:01 PM
It is possible to create much thinner films. At the molecular level.
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 02, 2020, 05:28:22 PM
That is, is it enough to connect a high-frequency generator to one electrode of a conventional electrolyzer with direct current? By separating the DC source with a high voltage high frequency choke?  :)
The drawings in the patent show 12 milliliters per minute of gas at an input of 500 watts of RF power.It is not enough. Or did I not understand something?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: lancaIV on November 02, 2020, 05:49:46 PM
To Debye-level ?
Hydrolysis is also purity grade dependent,we need for theoretically 100% pure  hydrogen clearly more energetic force input than for 99% or less purity !
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: Sergh on November 02, 2020, 06:26:49 PM
That is, is it enough to connect a high-frequency generator to one electrode of a conventional electrolyzer with direct current? By separating the DC source with a high voltage high frequency choke?  :)
No
Quote
[0012] The method according to the invention has the advantage over established electrolysis methods using a DC voltage that no direct contact between a feed means (preferably electrodes) and water (or the water phase) is necessary and thus electrode corrosion (or corrosion of the feed means) can be completely avoided. This not only extends the life of the cell for hydrogen production, but also avoids contamination of the treated waters with components of the electrode material (often heavy metals such as copper, nickel, tungsten). With regard to the electrically conductive electrode material, there are practically no restrictions in the method according to the invention. The method can thus be made very robust and low maintenance. Analogously, these advantages also result over other methods in which there is direct contact between electrodes and water.
[0013] In contrast to established electrolysis processes according to the prior art, almost any salt water (eg sea water) can be used for the water splitting according to the invention without the risk of undesired anodic chlorine formation from chloride with all its undesired consequences (formation of carcinogenic chlorinated organic compounds, if organic compounds are contained in the water) occurs. This is an advantage in areas of high solar radiation, where often only salt water is available in sufficient quantity. In a back conversion of hydrogen into electrical energy (for example, in a fuel cell or by catalytic processes in combination with the use of thermal energy) is produced as a reaction product pure, salt-free water that can be used as drinking water.
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102011081915A1/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102011081915A1/en)
Quote
Beside applied research in the Department of Environmental Engineering also new and fundamental effects are investigated in order to evaluate their application potential. A good example for such an effect is the electrode less water “electrolysis” in a radio frequency (13.56 MHz) plasma, also called “burning water”. In contrast to well known common electrolysis water is here dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen without direct contact of water with the RF electrodes, thus, avoiding corrosion of and undesired chemical reactions at the electrode surfaces
https://www.ufz.de/index.php?en=37418
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 02, 2020, 07:29:50 PM
Maybe Zografos had something similar ?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: Sergh on November 02, 2020, 10:06:18 PM
Maybe..Petros Zografos has 3 components:
1. High-frequency field, probably pulsed - low current consumption due to long pauses. How high frequency?

Is difficult to guess. 20 GHz weakly penetrates deionized water, several millimeters. Its spectrum analyzer without a special outer part (not present on the video) shows frequencies up to 21 GHz.Waveguides are too large for 20 GHz, they are more suitable for 10 GHz.Probably 10 - 20 GHz, no more.

2. Synchronous mechanical action: - low-frequency power transistors in TO-247 case under the wrapper; - coil under the test tube.The patent also contains elements of this.Ultrasonic or sound effects.  In the video, he talks about the sound "pshshh".Usually this sound from water is a sign of sound above 15 kHz or ultrasound. Magnetic-mechanical source of vibrations.
3. The most incomprehensible component: "colloids", "metacolloids". It is completely unclear what it is.
Petros' messages about high temperature and pressure may relate to impulse processes occurring under the cumulative effect of factors from points 1 and 2 inside colloid particles.
Nanotechnology.
Due to the fact that the nature of these "metacolloids" is completely unclear, replication attempts are not possible. Postponed.  :-\
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 03, 2020, 12:16:32 PM
Quote
    That is, is it enough to connect a high-frequency generator to one electrode of a conventional electrolyzer with direct current? By separating the DC source with a high voltage high frequency choke?  :)

No

Why not actually? During DC electrolysis, the entire electrode is enveloped in gas bubbles.When a radio frequency of sufficient power is supplied to it, plasma streamers will inevitably appear in this layer.It’s just that it’s unclear what will come of it.The main thing is not to forget to put the choke in order to decouple from the direct current ... :)
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 04, 2020, 10:10:39 AM
what is the reason for this frequency?
13.56 MHz
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 08, 2020, 09:03:53 AM
In any case, it would be interesting to investigate the impedance at different frequencies and RF powers.A cell with two electrodes running on direct current. Electrodes surrounded by a cloud of gas.And also by the dependence of the impedance at the RF on the magnitude of the constant current.Maybe someone has done such research ?
Title: Re: Has anyone heard how to replicate the John Kanzius salt water burn experiment?
Post by: kolbacict on November 17, 2020, 02:27:13 PM
For some reason, it experimentally shows an increase in high-frequency current through the cell, when a direct current is passed through it. This is not clear to me. After all, there is an intense gas release.
There is more gas than electrolyte in the gap between the electrodes. Resistance must rise ...
The high frequency and DC circuits are decoupled by the inductor.