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Author Topic: I see an economic diasater coming...  (Read 1440671 times)

the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #540 on: June 04, 2010, 11:42:35 PM »
actually, it is depend on USA how to survive. your ancestor give you a lot of technology to solve coming problem. it is right time to use it. even you guyz can make it in low cost device. why not? ...
Our "elected" leaders, that's why not.  They suppress innovation in engineering and buy up patents so the inventor(s) can't make any money.  They, the leaders, want the money first! And! they want as much as possible!!!!  The politicians don't really represent the people who "elect" them, they represent their own agenda first.
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... forget about oil and gas.... now it is the time to use tesla tech or magnetic energy by own...
Good, right.  I agree with you.  But, whoever tries can be told by Vested Interests to sit down and shut up.  Whoever doesn't comply, can meet with an unfortunate "accident".  Free energy should be part of the answer, yes.  The politics has to change to something better, though.
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...china is now becoming richest country in the world... but they still dun have much on technology and majority the ppl there not really educated.
Perfect point to what I was saying.  Many world leaders are holding their countrymen hostage to the their own whims, in spite of what's in the best interest of their countries population's wishes.  This goes for China, as well.  Stupid, greedy Communists!!!
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i don't why, USA can't make it. USA keep a lot of technology and a lot of talented people. majority educated. why economy still going down.
Even some of the reason is the ordinary people's fault, but not all.  Everyone wants to have an easy, comfortable life.  However, being duped (lied to, that is) by greedy businessmen(AIG/Enron/ BP!!!  >:(   ::)   >:(   ::)   :'(   :'(   :'(    ) is also partly the people's fault.  People want it for less money, or free, if possible.  It's never that easy.  It's hardly ever free.



In closing, you have a point in observation, yes, I see.  I know there are religious references stating that no one is honest, and that's the source of the problem.  As long as people have been alive.  Human nature.

TechStuf!
I already know the religious references whereof I speak.  No need for you to remind everyone.  The average reader can look them up on GOOGLE or I'll let Cap-Z-ro relate them in a post if he wants.  This is his forum and he's the Moderator.  He can do what he wants here.

I think I've tried to answer your questions, though, saikron1.

--Lee

the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #541 on: June 05, 2010, 01:37:15 AM »
china has more honor students than america has students, so does india... do the math, their coming dominance is inevitable.
Communism, as practiced today, doesn't work because of greed.  You can't spend someone else's money; it always runs out.
I know of only one exception:  An Israeli kibbutz.  And only because it's a small scale operation in terms of money.

Additionally, AIDS is going to take a heavy toll on the Chinese population in a generation or two.  Their Govt is avoiding the problem, to their detriment.

--Lee

WilbyInebriated

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #542 on: June 05, 2010, 02:06:56 AM »
Communism, as practiced today, doesn't work because of greed.  You can't spend someone else's money; it always runs out.
I know of only one exception:  An Israeli kibbutz.  And only because it's a small scale operation in terms of money.

Additionally, AIDS is going to take a heavy toll on the Chinese population in a generation or two.  Their Govt is avoiding the problem, to their detriment.

--Lee
communism is irrelevant. democracy, as practiced today, doesn't work either... because of greed.
it doesn't matter if the chinese are communist, democratic, fascist or any other form, it is simple math...

aids? ::) why don't you try a cogent argument?

saikron1

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #543 on: June 05, 2010, 02:25:52 AM »
anyway, this is facts. this country getting stronger now.... we can feel it economy crisis everywhere. i agree with you, china is greedy but they are good in calculating. When they got the money, they can do anything. i don't like china too... they are greedy and over react.
hoping your country leader manage to released something new. American scientist did really good. i really admit and admire their technology. but this technology not using it. really sad to hear this. hoping your government know to appreciate this scientist and change the world. 

the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #544 on: June 08, 2010, 10:29:21 PM »
communism is irrelevant. democracy, as practiced today, doesn't work either... because of greed.
it doesn't matter if the chinese are communist, democratic, fascist or any other form, it is simple math...
I know all this.
But, when the Chinese don't have any money like everyone else after the economic collapse, they'll act like all other communist states and impose their will militarily on others in their vicinity, regardless of the consequences.  The collapse will probably bring out the worst in people.  Look at movie, The Road, and see what can happen.  Several things can bring about collapse, and it can happen here or anywhere.  Why?  When people have no money, food, water, and warm winter shelter, they often become desperate like in various hotspots around the world.  Africa, the Middle East, Central America with floods and volcanos, etc.

Math?  Math has nothing to do with it, with the possible exception that the Chinese have the biggest population and biggest army in the world.  Those are big numbers, probably to be found on the Internet for those who look.
Is the paragraph above cogent, by that, I mean:  Relevant and strongly pointed out?
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aids? ::) why don't you try a cogent argument?
I intended to indicate AIDS was a long term---very serious---problem, but an absolute fact that can cause, even by itself, an eventual collapse in 20-50 years if nothing else changes.  If not enough people are around to maintain a cultural society, there'll be no cultural society to exist.

There are some very serious problems becoming insurmountable in the future, regardless of what is attempted to solve those problems.  The European debt crisis in one example.  The Gulf oil spill fiasco is another.  America is traveling down the same road to the same result as Greece.  Is this cogent?

--Lee

Qwurky1

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #545 on: June 09, 2010, 05:38:08 AM »
What I find interesting about "democracy" (capitalism) is that it is based off of darwinism, which is basically ruthless and winner takes all.  True Communism, as Marx envisioned it, was rather naive and a pipe dream, because it assumes that humans have the ability to, as an entire planet/nation/town/neighborhood, give up the desire to possess a larger slice of the pie than anyone else.  Once anyone gains more than the others, that enables them to get still more... yada yada money is evil, blah blah.  Do any of you think humans will ever evolve to the point where we can actually want to share equally with each other?  I like to think we have the seed of selfessness and human unity within us, which is what Tesla tried to "spark" within us (sorry) with his devices designed to equalize social classes and conserve resources for the future, but for some reason nice guys always do seem to finish last.  Perhaps it's because the nice guys never expect to get jumped in the alley on the way to reinvent the world the way it should be.  Personally, if I were a sentient organism that had happened across this galactic backwater, I'd look at the human race as a life form that once had potential but degraded into a horrible disease, and maybe even set up exterminators to make sure we didn't spread out of this solar system and infect the rest of the universe.  blah blah speech over.  Otherwise we will have the "martians" working in sweatshops to make our cheap Nikes (joking) or try to nuke them because they "ain't natural" and are "abominations to god"  Power to the People, Viva Tesla!!

WilbyInebriated

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #546 on: June 09, 2010, 01:39:40 PM »
I know all this.
and yet you still chose to post an irrelevant argument. ::)
But, when the Chinese don't have any money like everyone else after the economic collapse, they'll act like all other communist states and impose their will militarily on others in their vicinity, regardless of the consequences.  The collapse will probably bring out the worst in people.  Look at movie, The Road, and see what can happen.  Several things can bring about collapse, and it can happen here or anywhere.  Why?  When people have no money, food, water, and warm winter shelter, they often become desperate like in various hotspots around the world.  Africa, the Middle East, Central America with floods and volcanos, etc.
your argument in this paragraph is a red herring. how is any of that relevant to the question of the level of chinese education?

lee, you are obviously confused here. let us recap...
saikron1 said:
china is now becoming richest country in the world... but they still dun have much on technology and majority the ppl there not really educated.
to which i replied:
china has more honor students than america has students, so does india... do the math, their coming dominance is inevitable.
that is a cogent argument... relative and strongly pointed out.

you then hopped on board with your irrelevant response to me:
Communism, as practiced today, doesn't work because of greed.  You can't spend someone else's money; it always runs out.
I know of only one exception:  An Israeli kibbutz.  And only because it's a small scale operation in terms of money.

Additionally, AIDS is going to take a heavy toll on the Chinese population in a generation or two.  Their Govt is avoiding the problem, to their detriment.

--Lee
this is not cogent and here is why. communism was never spoken of, by saikron1 or myself, and is irrelevant to the argument at hand. this is a logical fallacy, known as a red herring argument. you then followed that with another logical fallacy, your statement about aids. aids is also irrelevant (aids has nothing to do with how educated the chinese are) to the argument at hand.

Math?  Math has nothing to do with it
indeed. math has nothing to do with your logical fallacies... because they are irrelevant. lol.

I intended to indicate AIDS was a long term---very serious---problem, but an absolute fact that can cause, even by itself, an eventual collapse in 20-50 years if nothing else changes.  If not enough people are around to maintain a cultural society, there'll be no cultural society to exist.

There are some very serious problems becoming insurmountable in the future, regardless of what is attempted to solve those problems.  The European debt crisis in one example.  The Gulf oil spill fiasco is another.  America is traveling down the same road to the same result as Greece.  Is this cogent?

--Lee
aids is still irrelevant to the argument at hand...

the european debt crisis is another red herring... the gulf oil spill is another red herring... greece is another red herring... no! those aren't cogent! the argument at hand is about the chinese being educated... ::) here, this might help you out. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
until you refrain from this repeated use of logical fallacy i'm afraid i will have to refuse to respond to you.


@qwurky1
well said. i fear as long as this asinine ideal of nationalism exists so pervasively around the globe nothing will change. you end up with guys like big_m here hating the 'damn pinko commie bastards', those who espouse communism hating the 'capitalist pigs', those who espouse fascism hating 'everybody'... ad infinitum, ad nauseam, ad absurdum.
george carlin said it wonderfully:
Quote from: george carlin
"I frankly don't give a fuck how it all turns out in this country - or anywhere else, for that matter. I think the human game was up a long time ago (when the high priests and traders took over), and now we're just playing out the string. And that is, of course, precisely what I find so amusing: the slow circling of the drain by a once promising species, and the sappy, ever-more-desperate belief in this country that there is actually some sort of "American Dream," which has merely been msiplaced.

The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you are emotionally detached from it. I have always viewed it from a safe distance, knowing I don't belong; it doesn't include me, and it never has. No matter how you care to define it, I do not indentify with the local group. Planet, species, race, nation, state, religion, party, union, club, association, neighborhood, improvement committee;I have no interest in any of it. I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to.

So, if you read something in this book that sounds like advocacy of a particular political point of view, please reject the notion. My interest in "issues" is merely to point out how badly we're doing, not to suggest a way we might do better. Don't confuse me with those who cling to hope. I enjoy describing how things are, I have no interest in how they "ought to be." And I certainly have no interest in fixing them. I sincerely believe that if you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem. My motto: Fuck Hope!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 02:08:06 PM by WilbyInebriated »

triffid

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #547 on: June 09, 2010, 08:40:05 PM »
I am back from my three week trip now but have no internet connection at home due to a massive virus infection(&*%$!!!).I attended my 40 year high school reunion while on my trip.I am sending this post from a public library.I hope to say more later.triffid

the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #548 on: June 09, 2010, 08:51:53 PM »
and yet you still chose to post an irrelevant argument. ::)your argument in this paragraph is a red herring. how is any of that relevant to the question of the level of chinese education?

lee, you are obviously confused here. let us recap...
saikron1 said:to which i replied:that is a cogent argument... relative and strongly pointed out.
Oh? Confused?
Did you read the title of this thread?  It's:  I see an economic disaster coming... (I realized I misspelled it in the title, but this software doesn't spell-check thread titles).
I implied, in my response to WilbyInebriated, that I thought, or intended to say, Chinese education was irrelevant to their survival.  It is irrelevant.
He said:
china has more honor students than america has students, so does india... do the math, their coming dominance is inevitable.
So what?  So they're educated.  An economic collapse would deprive the Communist government of their self-motivated, coveted power to impose their will on people, and they would lose a lot of 'face' in the process.  Being educated won't help them survive; there are just more of them (the Chinese) than us.  For now.  That can, and will, change.  I can tell you why, if you're interested.  Are you?
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you then hopped on board with your irrelevant response to me:this is not cogent and here is why. communism was never spoken of, by saikron1 or myself, and is irrelevant to the argument at hand. this is a logical fallacy, known as a red herring argument. you then followed that with another logical fallacy, your statement about aids. aids is also irrelevant (aids has nothing to do with how educated the chinese are) to the argument at hand.
indeed. math has nothing to do with your logical fallacies... because they are irrelevant. lol.
aids is still irrelevant to the argument at hand...
Okay, I concede that point.  Communism is money-oriented and greedy, but that can be part of their undoing economically, which is the subject of this thread.  They're responsible for acting the way they do.
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the european debt crisis is another red herring... the gulf oil spill is another red herring... greece is another red herring... no! those aren't cogent! the argument at hand is about the chinese being educated... ::)
Oh? Why are they 'red herrings'? The Europeans are digging themselves into a money hole too deep for them to get out of---and this country is exposed to part of that debt.  It's not a (huge!) amount of money, but trickle-down foreign trade amounts to more money than that and American jobs can be affected badly in the future.
The oil spill?  It's already costing a lot of money and more than 100,000 jobs are at stake.  Commercial fishing, recreational fishing, crab harvesting, oyster harvesting, crawfish harvesting, tourism, and then there's support industries.  For the Gulf States, is up to $60,000,000,000/yr.
The potential loss of this revenue isn't significant to these people?  I think it is.  The whole "Recovery" could go into a double-dip downturn.
Greece?  Not relevant?  Without confidence in the banking system, a monetary crisis could---and probably will---cause a collapse of the euro.  The Europeans are avoiding an economic problem which California is also in now.  Greece is the "Canary in the Coal Mine."  What happens to them will happen to America eventually.  They have grave problems they don't want to face yet---and some, or many, Californians think the same way.
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here, this might help you out. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
until you refrain from this repeated use of logical fallacy i'm afraid i will have to refuse to respond to you.
This thread was intended to be an archive of those articles which I and others could support the reporting of the imminent collapse as a possible warning to anyone who wanted to read the references.
You don't have to respond if you choose not to.
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george carlin said it wonderfully:
I think Carlin's attitude was accurate.  Hope really sucks, if that was what he meant.  It does and he's correct in that regard.

--Lee

WilbyInebriated

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #549 on: June 10, 2010, 01:49:54 AM »
Oh? Confused?
yes. confused.
Did you read the title of this thread?  It's:  I see an economic disaster coming... (I realized I misspelled it in the title, but this software doesn't spell-check thread titles).
you really can't seem to grasp the difference between the 'argument at hand' and the thread title can you?
I implied, in my response to WilbyInebriated, that I thought, or intended to say, Chinese education was irrelevant to their survival.
you implied no such thing... in point of fact, you never once mentioned education in your first two irrelevant responses...

So what?  So they're educated. 
duh!! that was my one and only point to saikron1. my intentions were to correct saikron1's erroneous assumption. then you went off with your irrelevant postings... and now i'm wasting my time on your logical fallacies... ::)
An economic collapse would deprive the Communist government of their self-motivated, coveted power to impose their will on people, and they would lose a lot of 'face' in the process.  Being educated won't help them survive; there are just more of them (the Chinese) than us.  For now.  That can, and will, change.  I can tell you why, if you're interested.  Are you?
no. i'm not interested. here's why, IT'S IRRELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT AT HAND!!
Communism is money-oriented and greedy, but that can be part of their undoing economically, which is the subject of this thread.
so what? it's not the subject of the argument at hand... you just don't get that do you?
Oh? Why are they 'red herrings'?
THEY ARE RED HERRINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT AT HAND!!!
come on lee!!! why are you making me repeat myself??
go read that link i posted about logical fallacies. learn it. pay close attention to red herrings, strawman and appeal to popularity...


« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 02:40:41 AM by WilbyInebriated »

the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #550 on: June 10, 2010, 03:19:58 AM »
you really can't seem to grasp the difference between the 'argument at hand' and the thread title can you? ... you implied no such thing... in point of fact, you never once mentioned education in your first two irrelevant responses... (You're right, I didn't--Lee)
...duh!! that was my one and only point to saikron1. my intentions were to correct saikron1's erroneous assumption. ...
saikron1's original post:
Quote
actually, it is depend on USA how to survive. your ancestor give you a lot of technology to solve coming problem. it is right time to use it. even you guyz can make it in low cost device. why not? forget about oil and gas.... now it is the time to use tesla tech or magnetic energy by own...
china is now becoming richest country in the world... but they still dun have much on technology and majority the ppl there not really educated.
i don't why, USA can't make it. USA keep a lot of technology and a lot of talented people. majority educated. why economy still going down.
That was Reply #541,
In #543, didn't I say anything about education, he did, but I did say the elected leaders wanted to be greedy by suppressing free energy inventions (my first response in Reply #543).  I didn't say anything about education. I agree with that.

Reply # 542,
Quote
china has more honor students than america has students, so does india... do the math, their coming dominance is inevitable.
You didn't go any further than that.  And you did bring education into the debate; you didn't explain your point.  Here's the article that may prove your point, right?
http://polidics.com/news/china-produces-more-honor-students-then-all-of-our-students-put-together.html

If you tried to steer saikron1 from his idea, you lost me on the point.
Would you mind explaining why China, having so many honor students, is so great?  Why are they becoming so dominant?  With education, you say?  Were you trying to dissuade saikron1 from from his point?  Your point being precisely what?
My original point, here and elsewhere on this thread, I believe: Their economy and ours are interconnected; we'll be equally screwed in the future.
They, the Chinese, can try and buy this country, but owning our debt won't be worth anything when that debt become unsustainable.  Their government has the same problem ours has: Politics, and that was also part of my point.

I tried to say education was irrelevant compared to political stupidity with respect to education, after you and saikron1 brought education up.

Time is short on this borrowed computer. Got to go.

--Lee

WilbyInebriated

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #551 on: June 10, 2010, 03:47:22 AM »
And you did bring education into the debate; you didn't explain your point.
NO I DID NOT. quit making shit up. the record clearly shows saikron1 brought education into the debate. i did explain my point...
saikron1 said:   "china is now becoming richest country in the world... but they still dun have much on technology and majority the ppl there not really educated."

to which i replied:   "china has more honor students than america has students, so does india... do the math, their coming dominance is inevitable."

it is obvious to anyone using their brain that the 'argument at hand' (between saikron1 and myself) is about the level of chinese education REGARDLESS OF THE THREAD TOPIC... yet you go off on repeated diatribes about everything BUT education... and you still don't understand why your responses are irrelevant. ::)

If you tried to steer saikron1 from his idea, you lost me on the point.
you were lost before you started your first reply to me... that much is evident from your irrelevant responses.

Would you mind explaining why China, having so many honor students, is so great?
again the point of the argument at hand goes over your head. ::)
having many honor students may or may not make china great, but that is irrelevant, because the argument was not about them being 'great'...
for the love of zeus lee!!! educate yourself on logic, reasoning and relevance. i gave you a link... educate yourself.

the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #552 on: June 11, 2010, 05:00:10 AM »
NO I DID NOT. quit making shit up. the record clearly shows saikron1 brought education into the debate. i did explain my point...
saikron1 said:   "china is now becoming richest country in the world... but they still dun have much on technology and majority the ppl there not really educated." ...  to which i replied:   "china has more honor students than america has students, so does india... do the math, their coming dominance is inevitable."

...it is obvious to anyone using their brain that the 'argument at hand' (between saikron1 and myself) is about the level of chinese education REGARDLESS OF THE THREAD TOPIC...
Good. You finally admitted it yourself.  Education wasn't part of the thread topic?   Yes? No?

Do you know anything about the phrase, "Off topic?"  Yes?!?! Why are you consistently off topic?  You think that this is something that's insignificant to Stefan and Cap-Z-ro?  Either one or both of them could have you banned for the piss-poor attitude you show toward several or many of the Members on this site.

Maybe you're not aware of, "Off topic?"  Or, as an alternative, you don't care?
I took the liberty that all Members have by looking at the last 80-90 of your most recent posts.  You're sure high-minded about your opinion of others.  Sure, you know something about physics and electronics, but you're telling others, in effect, "Here's my truth, and but the way, you're an idiot."
Look at these representative examples:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2794.msg231775#msg231775 ,   Replies #5305 & #5355
Rather condescending, IMO.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/condescending

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg229990#msg229990
Okay, I'll be honestly fair.  I took an industrial metal class in high school and you're correct, slow cooling is the way to anneal steel, rather than fast-quenching it.  You do know something about physics, as I said, but that's the last kind of positive statement you're getting from me.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5772.msg228982#msg228982 ,  Reply #336
If I said insulting things like that to people around me, I'd be dead shortly.  It's a good thing the people you insult don't know where you live.  Please continue that attitude with those whom you associate with living near you, and hope they don't have relatives with short tempers who own guns or take martial arts classes.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8775.msg228555#msg228555  ,  Reply #10
And you're not reading what you're writing?  You're doing what you claim Jerry (on_the_cutting_edge_2005) is doing.  Now, I admit I'm not the the most highly educated or professionally experienced Member on this site.  Like Jerry, I post my opinions on topics that I think I might know something about or I ask honest questions.  I've posted back and forth in the past with Jerry, and I'm satisfied he's sincere in what he thinks is his opinion.  I don't always agree with him, but I'm not going to stoop so low as to take that kind of attitude toward him.  Frankly, I'm being nice to you, here.  I didn't use all caps and/or bold letters like you sometimes do.  Maybe I'm too nice?  You're about the biggest, worst schmuck I've ever come across.

Alright, enough of this.  I'll put your name in the same category as TechStuf and not answer your posts from now on.  TechStuf is, IMHO, an incorrigible religionist and your fairly frequently harshly worded posts are no better than that you come across as an educated schmuck, but a schmuck nonetheless.

To summarize:
I started this thread as an expose' of explanatory articles and 'Web sources to illustrate the, IMHO, impending collapse of the American and/or worldwide economie(s).  Survival subjects after the collapse are acceptable associated subjects of discussion IMO.

Your admission that education, as such, was, in effect, off topic, makes my case that you're violating forum rules.
I'm not perfect; I know that.  I occasionally stray from the topic of a particular thread.  I can realize it and admit it.  I don't do it very often.  However! I don't go out of my way to insult people with an attitude like yours.

Maybe Cap-Z-ro will see this post and decide whether my side of the argument needs to be deleted in all or part of this post.  He's the Moderator of this Forum and we agree on a fair number of ideas.  I defer to his judgement.

--Lee

triffid

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #553 on: June 11, 2010, 06:40:07 PM »
My home computer is still tied up with a fake antivirius program called"AV Security Suite".You can google it up to learn more about it.I had to use the library computer to leave this message.triffid

CompuTutor

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #554 on: June 11, 2010, 07:27:10 PM »
It gets between you and the internet
with the windows proxy feature ...

Start in "Safe Mode with Networking" (F8 @ startup).

Internet Options >> Connections tab >> LAN Settings

Uncheck the "Use a Proxy Server" checkbox, reboot.



Then get a good uninstaller for that piece-o-crap app.

http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&newwindow=1&num=100&lr=lang_en&safe=off&q=#num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Removing+AV.Security.Suite