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Author Topic: I see an economic diasater coming...  (Read 1335924 times)

Offline Nink

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4065 on: February 12, 2016, 07:46:22 PM »

So, do nothing and act once bad things happen in your neighbourhood. If it is only economic hardship, just forget your losses, you can not take anything with you when you die.

If unrest starts, I will join the best organised group which can convince me that it can pull off a credible fight for power in the area where I live.

Greetings, Conrad

You are right I was an idiot for selling all my stocks and buying physical gold back in September.  Keep me in the loop on how your do nothing strategy is working out. 


Offline triffid

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4066 on: February 12, 2016, 07:53:31 PM »
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/reports/RWR/blackoctober/credential/?ccode=&em=&sc=DIANO&ec=6809157&dv=MAM 

can Washington really go broke? check out the link above.
triffid


Edelson points out that, when Greece defaulted on its debts on June 30, 2015, its total debt was 1.5 times larger than the total value of all goods and services produced by its economy. Or, as an economist would put it, "Greece's 'debt to GDP ratio' stood at 177%."

But today, Portugal's debt-to-GDP ratio is 130.2% ... Italy's is 132.1% ... Spain's is 97.7% ... and France's is 95% — and those debts are growing at an alarming rate.

Tokyo's is 233% — 42 times higher than the debt that caused Greece to go broke — and it, too, is still growing by leaps and bounds.

Most alarming: America's official national debt plus Washington's off-budget obligations now stand at $117 trillion. That gives the U.S.A. a total debt to GDP ratio of 101%: 330 times greater than the debt that broke the back of the Greek economy.

"These debts are patently unpayable," says Edelson. "That means they cannot, will not ever be repaid. That means default is inevitable."

Offline conradelektro

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4067 on: February 12, 2016, 08:33:56 PM »
You are right I was an idiot for selling all my stocks and buying physical gold back in September.  Keep me in the loop on how your do nothing strategy is working out.

Only time will tell, if you were right to go into gold. There will always be a time when gold is good to have, but there always will be a time when gold is down or downright dangerous to own.

So, it is all a question of the situation you are in. Statistically speaking, the times when gold is a good thing to have are rare.

If there is social unrest, please do not show a single peace of gold, because you will be followed and tortured to death till you give up the rest of your gold. If you have it in a bank, it will be lost anyway because the bank will be bankrupt and all its contents will be in the hand of someone who will not give you your gold. So, gold in hard times is a liability which will kill you.

There might come a time when gold is very expensive and you could sell it with profit. But what will you buy? Real estate and stock will probably be risky in times when gold is very valuable. So, you can not really win, only in exceptionally rare cases.

In short, the only really valuable thing in hard times is a functioning farm in a safe area. But will there be a safe area and will you be physically able to farm? Do you want to live on a farm from now on? Because you have to do that now in order to be ready. It is a huge effort in money, labour and time to set up a functioning farm and to keep it functioning. Even for people with considerable money that is mostly not feasible.

The best advise I heard: to prepare for hard times make sure to repay all monetary debts. At least nobody can demand anything from you in case of disaster. You may be able to hold on to your house, which helps a lot. But you might be forced to leave your house, in which case you could just forget the mortgage. So, even that advice might not help. I would say, that repaying your debt is a good way of acting if we are heading for moderately bad times. You could pull through a temporary low of the economy. I personally always avoided debt, just because I do not like to pay interest. But I lived in the good times and everything was relatively easy.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline conradelektro

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4068 on: February 12, 2016, 08:49:27 PM »
can Washington really go broke?

Only a weak state can go broke. A strong state just prints new money.

If the money system breaks down, there will be a new political area with new and different political leaders. And if you look at history, new political leaders always printed their own new money.

Yes fortunes will be lost, but only monetary values (bank accounts and financial papers like stock and bonds and all the rest). But real estate and functioning enterprises which provide needed services and produce needed goods will go on. You have to realise that money is a fiction. But besides this fiction there are real things and the real things do not disappear in case of a money catastrophe. The real things might change hands, but they mostly stay on (unless they are destroyed by war).

Yes, the money system like we know it now for sure will break down. But there will be a new political class which will print new money. Real political power does not go bankrupt, it creates its own fictional money.

You are right, the political power that rules today in Washington or Europe or Japan is at the end of its life span and will be replaced in the coming years (and with it our current money system dies). Nobody knowns when and how that will happen, chances are that there will be another big war, which always was the big solution in history.

What can you do? Well, practically nothing, just wait and see and decide when it happens. Whatever you plan now will be wrong. There are no reliable prophets or prophesies. Survival in hard times is mostly ruled by chance. It helps to be young, beautiful, strong and clever. But that it is also true for good times.

And if you are old? Well, you had your time, stop lamenting you will die anyway.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4069 on: February 13, 2016, 01:58:40 AM »

(snip for simplicity)

I am not sure how this will end but I would advise
1)buy phsysical gold,
       I was told earlier in this thread that gold can't be eaten, since a silver dollar can't be eaten, either.   Money is a medium of exchange, only.   Making it a commodity like cereal grains that are physical,---they're a commodity---will eventually be impossible to control.   Just like the worldwide stock markets.   That's usury and it's a sure way to go broke---eventually.


Quote

2)Own assets
       Food that's preserved is fine.   Guns---that work---and---enough!---ammo---that works---will also be valuable in a barter economy.   They're a commodity as long as greed doesn't get in the way and prices one 'out of the market'?


 3) Get some bitcoin 4)Get out of debt (or have a method of servicing the debt without income) and 5) Stockpile enough for 12 months food water power and 6) ??? ??? ??? ??? ?

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4070 on: February 13, 2016, 02:25:52 AM »
       I was told earlier in this thread that gold can't be eaten, since a silver dollar can't be eaten, either.   Money is a medium of exchange, only.   Making it a commodity like cereal grains that are physical,---they're a commodity---will eventually be impossible to control.   Just like the worldwide stock markets.   That's usury and it's a sure way to go broke---eventually.

       Food that's preserved is fine.   Guns---that work---and---enough!---ammo---that works---will also be valuable in a barter economy.   They're a commodity as long as greed doesn't get in the way and prices one 'out of the market'?


Quote
3) Get some bitcoin
       Same as the one immediately above, ultimately.


Quote
4)Get out of debt (or have a method of servicing the debt without income)
       Money can make one a slave to it because it can take paying off a debt 10-25+ times as long when money is devalued that much.   I had an older relative who lived through the Great Depression and that's what he said.   Having no debt is fine, but not everyone has the money available quickly ENOUGH to take advantage of the idea.

Quote
and 5) Stockpile enough for 12 months food water power
       Okay, I admit I've done that my way.   A have a place I can go and there's some bad-@ss dudes around to make sure me and they're not messed with.   I did it and I suggest you do something like it, too.

Quote
and 6) ??? ??? ??? ??? ?
       Time almost out on this computer.   #'s 1-5 can speak for themselves.   Luck is also something INTANGIBLE, but I admit I'm an IRISH Jew, and luck does mean something personal to me.   It might or might not be that for you.   Make up for it somehow if you think you need to.   It's all up to you.

If I have time tomorrow, I may say more.

--Lee

Offline Nink

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4071 on: February 13, 2016, 02:41:51 AM »

Bitcoin is a little different.  It is a very secure portable asset that I can store a passcode in my head and piece of paper in my pocket. If I have to I can email it to anyone but without both the private key and passcode no government agency can seize it and no one else can spend it. 


Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4072 on: February 13, 2016, 06:29:14 AM »
Bitcoin is a little different.  It is a very secure portable asset that I can store a passcode in my head and piece of paper in my pocket. If I have to I can email it to anyone but without both the private key and passcode no government agency can seize it and no one else can spend it.
       Getting late in Calif. where I live, but I'd say that I was 'railed against' by a couple others on this Overunity Site Forum, when I started this thread, for essentially ignoring a certain aspect of possible reality that they maintained staple commodities were a WHOLE lot more useful as survival barter items because they can survive awhile if they're preserved and, say, MRE's(Meals Ready to Eat").   Dry goods are another source of useful items by barter.
       Money coins and bills can't be eaten.   I didn't like being disagreed with at first, but at least that argument is valid, as far as it goes   As long as staple commodities exist, one can barter for something you really want.   As long as they last.   After they're gone, you've got nothing left unless more are personally found or made artificially.   I agree with this premise.
       But, when the modern countries in the 1st and 2nd world societies, lose money markets in a collapse, they have nothing physical to compensate or replace them with.   Also(?), when this happens, starvation can occur on a large scale in bigger cities because people in large cities don't know how to live off the land like rural residents can be capable of.
       (The "back to nature" movement was big in the past I recall when I was younger, say, in the 60s and 70s)


Okay, now, with the bitcoin, it's dependant on a properly functioning computer, right?   It's inedible as a source of nutrition.   That's what I'm getting at as this self-admitted 'long-winded' discourse with some more information added was just written.   HOWEVER, even commodities like wheat and corn need to be grown under minimum conditions where vegetable life is possible.   Canned foods have a definite shelf life and can't be used forever unless enough technology is preserved to generate more commodities through mechanized plant manufacturing.   Without electrical power, that won't happen.   Same with enough raw materials in sufficient quantities.   No way without sufficiently advanced technology.
       If power generators quit running, the country might return to the early- to mid-19th Century(?)   I think.   The Industrial Revolution began in the 1850's or some time before.   Inventions from genius' like Edison and Tesla gave the modern world their benefits of inventions to advance the quality of living for ordinary people.
        Humanity can survive with enough 'backwoods men' to replace those who starve, suffer disease, accidents or war casualties.   If this country falls to the technology level of the mid- or early-19th or 20th Century, that would help more people who can't survive in the wilderness.   However, I don't know exactly how bad it'll get because of human free will.   People can do what they want and it's their responsibility to overcome karma they make, if they actually make it.
       All I can do is live with the state of San Francisco as the future unfolds.   I do actually have a personally motivated exit plan.   It's what I can do with the potential condition that could exist.   As I may have said, luck is something I've benefitted from in the past.   It's a factor that's part of what I'll need to live with in the future.


--Lee

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: Okay I admit something....
« Reply #4073 on: February 16, 2016, 08:16:54 AM »
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/inside-the-market/market-updates/european-asian-markets-jump-on-china-stimulus-hopes/article28759425/
       triffid and all others,
Allow me to be the first to say I might have to already said, stock crashes/recessions/depressions start out bad and then rebound to some extent before they REALLY fall badly.   The Asian stocks are doing this now.   Many are up to some extent.


Okay, I see this.   BUT the main elements of the Chinese economy are still weak.   They've been like that for a couple of months.   AND, the iranians are pumping oil again after restrictions were lifted by Pres. Obama.   And also----American oil---especially from shale oil, is near or at maximum possible.   


       It'[size=78%]s only a matter of time before the stock "rout" continues as it did.   The Chinese demand control and "control freaks" like them usually get stiff resistance from others whether they want it or not.[/size]
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]I'm quitting now.   This small text came on without my doing it.   Somebody is playing a stupid GAME and I'm tired of it.   I'm NOT wearing my reading glasses.   This is a lot harder to write.   I quit!   This sucks![/size]
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]--Lee[/size]


p.s.
This isn't as bad as I thought.   The letters are regular sized, and the beginning and enging notification comes out in regular size.   It's fairly easy to read.


Offline triffid

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4074 on: February 26, 2016, 07:30:25 PM »
I was watching the news last night on TV and they said that within five years in the USA(if no changes are made) ,there will be 42% unemployment with the young people.Thats 2021!triffid

Offline triffid

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4075 on: February 26, 2016, 07:44:22 PM »
Today Japan is 70% forest. Some 300 years ago they were on the verge of losing their wooded areas.But they made changes to their lifestyles to replant their wooded areas.Not easy maybe but doable.Long Island State is 49% forest(I was there in the 1990s to see this).With NYC nearby they early on saw the need for wild places.We can change whats happening to places like New Orleans,La.It takes lots of money and a congress that's ready to lead in the areas of reconstruction of our coastal cities.Otherwise NYC and other coastal cities will suffer the same fate as new Orleans after katrina.Dead with millions of rusting cars littered everwhere.Hardly a happy event!triffid

Offline triffid

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Re: I see an economic diasater coming...
« Reply #4076 on: February 26, 2016, 07:47:53 PM »
Last night on public tv I heard that our congress is controlled by the top 0ne percent,corporations, and wall street.
Because of this the average mans concerns is pushed aside and ignored.Better chose wisely in the next election!
triffid

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: Okay I admit something....
« Reply #4077 on: February 26, 2016, 11:36:31 PM »
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/inside-the-market/market-updates/european-asian-markets-jump-on-china-stimulus-hopes/article28759425/
       triffid and all others,
Allow me to be the first to say I might have to already said, stock crashes/recessions/depressions start out bad and then rebound to some extent before they REALLY fall badly.   The Asian stocks are doing this now.   Many are up to some extent.

Okay, I see this.   BUT the main elements of the Chinese economy are still weak.   They've been like that for a couple of months.   AND, the Iranians are pumping oil again after restrictions were lifted by Pres. Obama.   And also----American oil---especially from shale oil, is near or at maximum possible.   


       It's only a matter of time before the stock "rout" continues as it did.   The Chinese demand control and "control freaks" like them usually get stiff resistance from others whether they want it or not.

I'm quitting now.   This small text came on without my doing it.   Somebody is playing a stupid GAME and I'm tired of it.   I'm NOT wearing my reading glasses.   This is a lot harder to write.   I quit!   This sucks!

--Lee


p.s.
This isn't as bad as I thought.   The letters are regular sized, and the beginning and ending notification comes out in regular size.   It's fairly easy to read.
p.p.s.
I tried to get rid of the "size=78%" nonsense.   I guess it. worked.   Maybe.   For now.

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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RE: I see a financial disaster coming...
« Reply #4078 on: March 08, 2016, 04:11:37 AM »
       It's only a matter of time before the stock "rout" continues as it did.   The Chinese demand control and "control freaks" like them usually get stiff resistance from others whether they want it or not.
.
.
(snip)
.
.
       It's not just the stock markets in Asia...
Take a look at this:
       http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/07/debt-crisis-bis_n_9399834.html
Right.   That should be plain enough to be evident to a lot of people.   Borrow beyond your financial means in income, and the 'bills will come due. eventually.   In the state of N. Carolina, by their state law, debts MUST be paid.   The rest of the world will be watching all this going on in Asia and America, and probably think the same thing.
       I don't see why not.   Especially countries like Iraq ad Iran.   They'll probably use our financial problems against us any way they can.


--Lee

Offline Nink

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Re: RE: I see a financial disaster coming...
« Reply #4079 on: March 08, 2016, 05:48:15 AM »
       It's not just the stock markets in Asia...
Take a look at this:
       http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/07/debt-crisis-bis_n_9399834.html
Right.   That should be plain enough to be evident to a lot of people.   Borrow beyond your financial means in income, and the 'bills will come due. eventually.   In the state of N. Carolina, by their state law, debts MUST be paid.   The rest of the world will be watching all this going on in Asia and America, and probably think the same thing.
       I don't see why not.   Especially countries like Iraq ad Iran.   They'll probably use our financial problems against us any way they can.


--Lee

Everything is Awesome. After all Canada has 77 ounces of gold left.  My neighbor collects gold coins and he is now richer than the entire Government of Canada

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gold-canada-reserves-1.3475818