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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 02:04:34 AM

Title: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 02:04:34 AM
This is a regular Bedini SSG using a 48v computer fan instead of the classic wheel with magnets.

This system will charge the output battery and ALSO charge the driving battery at the same time.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 02:41:37 AM
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Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Goat on August 29, 2009, 03:20:27 AM
Hi there Plengo...long time no hear.. :)

So from what I have seen from your pictures it's a Bedini Imhotep modification but on a 48v computer fan instead of the classic Bedini wheel with magnets or the Imhotep  12v computer fan mod but using a 48v system to run and charge as well as maintain the system.

Your pictures are showing the Imhotep modification on a 48v fan but where's the rest of the circuit to charge and maintain the source.

Sorry for all the questions, humanity is running out of time, 2010 is nigh.

Regards,
Paul



Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 04:41:42 PM
@Paul,

I know time is running out very fast. You are correct in stating that this is indeed the Imhotep  48 volts modified fan and the pictures are the SAME of the other thread from Fusionchip(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg149358#msg149358). In fact the whole fan is exactly the same as the other thread which I dont want to duplicate the explanations here more than Imhotep have done.

So for all that want to participate take a look at how Imhotep have modified the fan in this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDS9qk-Nw4M. Also simple google search should provide lots of information about this fan.

I am using a 48 volts fan which was very cheap. I found it at this address http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/220100/Fans/D.C.-Fans/1.html. Check also the thread from Fusionchip at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg152301#msg152301.


The circuit is a regular SSG Bedini system, except that there is no wheel. The fan is the wheel. A few new parts - an extra battery and one more diode N5408. There will be no magnets hanging on the fan neither it will be necessary to have tricky parts from legacy systems or defunct components. IT IS A SIMPLE SSG with the 48 volts fan.

I am on the works of the explanations of the step by step in how to make this happen so just hold you breaths that I will very soon post more pictures, videos and explanations of how to do it and why i think it is working.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 05:21:54 PM
Ok here it goes the process.

Make sure that the 3 batteries voltages are equal when starting if possible, if not, put the higher voltage holding battery in the back-end (B3) and the smallest holding voltage battery in the front-end in place of B2. Make sure switch SW1 is off (not shorted).

Run the system as shown on the picture and you should have a fan running around 230 rpm. You will notice that the back-end will charge as the system runs but If you let this system run long enough the front-end will simply drain and you will get the same results as everyone has. No overunity, no surprises and no fun.

The osciloscope pictures are taken from the positive terminal of the front-end (B2) and the collector of the transistor 3055.

There are two things that I noticed when running this system for many, many hours (I have been sick for days so i dont have much to do but just observe). One is that the back-end does indeed charge while the front-end just depletes (as everyone already knows that). Second, there is point where the combination (or difference) of voltage on the back-end and the front-end will be such that the system runs and temporarily the front-end will seam to be raising in voltage while the back-end also raise in voltage. That's what I call "system out of balance".

The difference in voltage from the front-end and the back-end is such that it allows that seamly weird behavior with both ends raising the voltage while the system runs. THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL.

One MUST put the system to run in this "out of balance" state until it reachs an equilibrium where it is now on the "balanced" state where the front-end will start to lower its voltage while the back-end may or may not raise in voltage. If you let it run long enough in this state you will simply deplete the front-end and again, no fun.

The Switchs SW1 and SW2 are used to force the system to be in a "out of balance" state. I still dont have a very scientific process to "how to swtich" correctly but my error and trials have been working well with the following process: Stop the fan, keep switch SW1 ON (shorted) while swtiching SW2 to point A first until voltage of the back-end drops and the front-end raises until roughly both have the same voltage. That should be around 5 seconds. Switch to B (keep SW1 ON) until back-end raises sharply. The should be around 2 seconds. Switch to A (keep SW1 ON) again until front-end is around 0.1 volts LESS then back-end voltage.  Turn off Switch SW1.

Now let the system run and watch the voltage on the front-end and the back-end raise as it runs. You have now a system "out of balance" and it will drive itself to a "balanced" state. The fan will run slower now and slowly will accelerate until you repeat the whole process again.

Take notes of the total and individual voltages and you will notice that the batteries are actually raising and charging to a higher value than when you started.

In my test setup I have been doing this over and over and over again and as the back-end charges to a greater differential of potential in relation to the front-end more difficult it is for me to keep doing that, and that simply because I still dont know what is the differential in voltage necessary to have a good "unbalanced" state yet.

When that a persistent "balanced" state is reached I simply switch the battery from the back-end (B3) with battery B1 or B2 from the front-end forcing it to be "out of balance" again.

Simple.

Fausto.

ps: videos and notes are on the way.
ps: Off course I can be totally wrong and my numbers are simply deceiving me but on my calculations using an spreadsheet I DO see an increase in total voltage on the system. That's why I need you guys to replicate this and tell me if I am craizy or not!
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 08:49:45 PM
This is my work in progress log. Those numbers reflect the state of the charge of all 3 batteries. They are broken down on the graph as:
- total back-end voltage (B3)
- total front-end voltage (B1 + B2)
- total voltage (B1 + B2 + B3)
- individual front-end B1 and B2 voltages

One can clearly see around point 55 that was a great drop in total voltage and that was when I let it run without my interference (without forcing a "unbalancing") until the next morning, about 6 hours of run time, and it shows clearly that letting the system run towards a "balanced" mode will eventually simply deplete all the energy that the front-end can provide and the "extra" energy that the system generates. I call this the "balanced underunity mode" or "self-underunity mode".

One can also clearly see that when I force the "unbalacing" on the system the total voltage and individual voltages tend to increase.

The numbers on the left are reduced by 36, 24 and 12 points so that one can see the fluctuation in a more granular fashion. (Note the notes on the graph itself).

I am also noticing now that it is becoming increasingly more difficult to force the system into an "unbalaced" mode because the differential in voltage of the back-end versus the front-end is getting higher, but I am still able to run it and get some increase in total voltage on the system. I will soon have to switch the batteries B3 with B1 and restart the whole process.

I will keep the graph growing and show more results and videos soon.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 29, 2009, 08:58:21 PM
More log data
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 30, 2009, 08:08:04 PM
I forgot to mention this before, but one very important thing to observe is that one will need at least 4 (preferable 5) digits after the dot precision meters. :(

I was only able to notice this behavior of the battery having this "unbalanced" and "balanced" state watching those 7 digits voltages fluctuating back and forth. Very painfull process but since I was very sick and I had nothing else to do..... :D

Anyway, I have been playing with the same set of batteries of graphs before without recharging them and in the process of trying many different things including coming up with a more automated fashion in putting this system "out of balance" using switches and relays and pulse generators and so on.

My last test using a relay making switch SW2 go to position B at every 5 minutes was a total failure. In the morning my battery voltages were simply horrible. Kind of hurt. But hey, science is made of those moments too.

At least I am learning very fast that just trying to force a rhythm  onto the battery will simply NOT WORK. One must wait and see when the system is getting "balanced" so that the proper time for it is found.

I already have some interesting clues. One is, if you watch the voltage of the front-end raising (system is "out of balance") and it goes higher and higher until there is a point where it will stop going higher (with lots of fluctuations here) and than it start to go down, THERE is the point of forcing the "unbalacing".

Switch SW2 to A-B-A quickly and you will have it again the front-end raising its voltage back to the "unbalanced" state. Off course the voltages in the back-end and in the front-end will be totally different now but it does not matter. The process will in the end show you a tremendous gain.

The only thing I can think that could possibly find this "sweet point" is using micro-controllers where the average of the voltages are taken and a trend can be spotted. (Lot's to learn for me here now).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Flux4Energizer on August 31, 2009, 12:01:56 PM
Oke looks interesting.
But one thing i don't understand is the switch!
The way i see it is when you use the switch 1 & 2 you short out the run battery 1!
When you only use switch 1 then you bypass the diode.
I will build the circuit tho and post it on youtube to see the results, i still have enough parts to build the circuit.

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 31, 2009, 07:04:53 PM
@Flux4Energizer,

thats is correct and it is also not intuitive to understand how I see this to be working.

Let me explain how I see this (I did all that via monkey science, lots of try outs and errors until I found this interesting thing about the battery).

B1 is the real driver of the whole SSG. B2 and B3 are used in that weird configuration to allow B3 (the charging battery) to receive the radiant energy (that Bedini talks) coming from D1 and at the same time receiving pulses from B1 when the transistor turns on. You can see those pulses going through B2 and B3 because one can put a amp meter between B3 negative pole and the coil and you will see it. So B3 gets freely charge directly from B1, kind of like Tesla Switching Battery project style thing.

B2 was necessary to allow B3 to be inverted because without B2 it would not be possible to connect B3 like that and still run the system.

Now, the radiant spikes coming from D1 will go to B1 most of the time and recharge that battery (Gadgetmall's design) but it does work even better if batteries B3 and B2 allow some flow constantly from them back to B1, which is when I put the system "out of balance". Switching SW1 on and SW2 to B for 1/10 of second, you will see energy going from B1 and B2 toward B3 raising its voltage and lowering B1's voltage big time, that IS the "out of balance" thing. B1 will now raise its voltage and run the system at the same time.

Now, B3 and B2 will push current constantly towards B1 while B1 is pushing current to the coil while the transistor switches. That constant current going in reverse into B1 allows a "gain" when the radiant is going ALSO towards B1. I see it almost like making the stream of water (energy) going always in "charging" mode into B1 helping the radiant stream flow to do its magic in that battery.

But all that is just one of the things I noticed. The second is when you have B3 and B2 connected like that they will dynamically change the whole system because their internal resistance will change as their charges changes which will make things even more interesting.

You can notice B3 charging EVEN WHEN energy is clearly flowing from B3 and B2 toward B1 (just put a meter there between B3 and B2 and you will see it). That is mind mangling form me.

If you run the system long enough you will also notice that B3 will charge faster while B1 goes toward "balance" mode which is when B1 is no longer raising its voltage trying to reach the previous level that it was before using the switchs that I just said previously.

The only problem I see with this whole thing is to make one SEE it and replicate it as I did and really get that sweet "balance - unbalance" spot going on manually. Also it is really necessary to have a higher 5 digits presicion meter so that you can see this minute 1/100 of a volt increase fluctuation going on. :(

I am currently trying to figure out how to do it automatticaly because I am back to work and I can not seat at my lab staring at the meters for hours and days any longer, but I am glad I was sick and could see this strange behavior that seams to be causing the gain in voltage.

Also I have tested two more things, one is which switching is the best and it seams that SW1 on + SW2 to B point is the best for 1/10 of second whenever I see the voltage on B1 stop raising for longer then 1 minute. Microcontrollers would be wonderfull here!

The other test was  just letting the system running without interference and clearly the voltages on B1 will drop steadily and B3 will stop raising until the system dies.

The third test was pulsating SW1 + SW2 to A position every 5 minutes and it also did not work at all. All voltages dropped tremendously.

SO, I can conclude that switching SW1 + SW2 to B position every "out of balance" spot comes on is really making the difference that you see on the first half of my graphs above.

Currently now I am testing the with system running with an auto switching SW1 + SW2 to B for every 5 or so minutes. So far voltages have not dropped but actually have increased although very very slowly.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on August 31, 2009, 07:13:21 PM
One thing that might not be obvious on the schematics is that SW1 is always OFF while the system is running. It is a push button.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 02, 2009, 02:56:13 AM
I am running my 3 batteries right now in semi-auto mode where I only pulse them every 20 minutes using a relay and an old function generator, very crude but at least it allows me to keep it running for the week while I work and hopefully I soon will have this controller switch doing it but more inteligently.
 
I really thing there is something weird in this behavior here. As a matter of Fact I saw a DVD from Bedini (must be energy from the vacuum 5 or 6 or something like that) where he is showing his SSG and a Window Motor and than he decides to on-the-fly change the window motor circuitry to make it an SSG to show it charging a battery (a battery that he already showed before in the same DVD being charged using a 6 pole SSG) but then that battery did not want to charge at all so he got very upset in front of the camera and did something that did not sound right to me at the time, he loaded the battery straight to a car light and reduced its voltage to almost kill it, something like under 9volts then he connected that battery back to the modified Window Motor and the baby was charging super fast to above 14 volts in front of the camera in no time. He even went to the effort to show that that charge was NOT a ghost charge but in fact a real charge.
 
Well, today I was thinking about that and realized that what I am doing with the swiching is exactly the same thing but in a more regular way and also sending that load to instead of a car lamp to the other back-end battery which is excellent.
 
So my idea now is not so far fectched as someone may think. It is indeed very well known by Bedini.
 
Fausto.
 
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Flux4Energizer on September 02, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
@ Plengo

Oke thanks for your explenation.
I have four 12Volt 2Ah batteries lying around and enough parts so i dicided
to build the circuit (with a 12Volt 200mA fan), just to test the sw1 and the battery behavior.
I found that battery 1 (run battery) is being discharged at very slow rate, battery 2 (run battery) is being slowly charged and battery 3 is slowly being charged.
However, battery 3 won't go over 11.02 Volt!!!
And even more important battery 1 is discharging faster as battery 2 & 3 getting charged up.
So now the sw1; i pressed this for very short time and i must say it does behave in a way i can't realy explain right now (but maybe i missed something). Battery 2 is dropping voltage and battery 1 is dropping voltage but battery 3 is gaining voltage (between 12.45Volt and 13.13Volt). But this is only when the sw1 button is pushed, when you let go the batteries go back to their old values except for battery 1 this one wil drop sometimes as much as 0.01Volts!
Maybe i do it wrong, i don't know!
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 02, 2009, 05:39:05 PM
@Flux4Energizer,

very good. Try to make the SSG run as slow as possible. I usually put the pot on the base of the transistor to its highest voltage so that it will spin the fan and still consume around no more than 20ma of current.

You are doing great. Using the switch SW1 + SW2 position A is behaving just like I see it too. Very good. That's what I call putting it in "unbalanced mode". Now let it run for awhile.

If you are using the diode D2 (n5408) you should see battery B3 charging and B1 charging and B2 discharging but very slowly. After one hour or two, momentarily (for less than 1/10 of a second) make SW1 + SW2 position B (B only no position A). Do that every hour or so and what the voltages of all. It should increase the total voltage in the whole system, even if some batteries are going down.


After may be a day or so you see B2 very low in voltage and B3 very high, you switch them as the following: B1 goes to B2, B2 goes to B3 and B3 goes to B1. So the lowest in voltage will be the back-end.  You are now ready for a new start and again watch the total voltage in the system.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 02, 2009, 06:29:58 PM
Fausto;

People involved with Bedini Fan SGS's need to really study these
Plengo topic posts carefully because he seems to be presenting
the "missing link" between Bedini motors and overunity energy
production! IMHO.

I have a 12V Bedini fan which doesn't create enough BEMF...
see below. So I can not confirm what Fausto is showing here,
yet. But Fausto should be proud of what he has done so far.
I distinctly hope Fausto has microcontroller development
capabilities.

@ Plengo

I have four 12Volt 2Ah batteries lying around and enough parts so i dicided
to build the circuit (with a 12Volt 200mA fan), just to test the sw1 and the battery behavior.
I found that battery 1 (run battery) is being discharged at very slow rate, battery 2 (run battery) is being slowly charged and battery 3 is slowly being charged.
However, battery 3 won't go over 11.02 Volt!!!


I have tried the 12Volt Fans with the Bedini circuit but these fans
do not create enough Bemf back EMF pulse voltage to overcome
the silicon diode voltage drop plus the battery voltage for the
Charge Battery .

So Simply: "~YOU MUST USE A CONVERTED ~ 48VDC FAN!",
not a 12Volt fan. These 48V fans are surprisingly inexpensive. The
reason is that the 48VDC Fan has more inductance in it's field coils
so it creates a much larger voltage spike. This is an Inhoptep circuit
problem.

By the way what I did was to cut and paste all the text that
plengo has posted on this topic and put it into a text editor and
edited it...I think this is very good evidence of the scientific method.


So the strong points of Plengo's methods;

a) He uses a 48 volt Fan

b) He seems to have found a method to produce
power using the 'balanced" and "unbalanced" state
situation.

---

Weak points;

a) The Bedini motor does not self start, so a method of
self starting is required that uses battery power to do it.
(Else you have a potential for a "hand magnet" too).

b) While I think that max(Voltage batA + Voltage batB + Voltage batC)
is a probably valid way to measure the system state of charge, it is
not a technical proof of the the total energy state of charge
in the system. Just don't get too disappointed if the above is true.

c) damp-out shorting switch arcing with a small value capacitor.
No MHD magnetohydro dynamic energy generation please.

d) A valid microcontroller for this will not be able to watch
7 decimal digit volt meters to detect a voltage change,
this would be too expensive to do in a final system.

But I would like to suggest you look at the following;

You mentioned that the RPM of the fan increases from the
"unbalanced" to the "balanced" state situation. My suggestion is
that you use Fan RPM to designate the system state of charge.

A microcontroller could easily find relative Fan RPM by interfacing to
the field drive signal. The microcontroller would watch relative
Fan RPM and as it maximises it would then go though the system
"unbalancing" sequence. If the sequence is short enough then
it could swap batteries via relays. The microcontroller can still watch
the battery voltage but would not need 7 digits accuracy to do it.

e) Battery swapping takes a largish number of reed relays.

f) radiant energy = static electricity. Static electricity needs
to be isolated from microcontroller hardware.

---

The final goal should be to create a system that can continually
fully runs itself while power a small known load. When the system
runs itself for longer then the batteries could power the load directly
then that is proof of overunity.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 02, 2009, 07:52:23 PM
@mscoffman,

I am not sure I found the "missing link" but I hope so. :) Thanks for your observations.

You are right, it MUST be a 48 vdc modified fan aka imhotep. Concerning the voltage to 7 digits, I only mention that if one wants to be "sick like me" and watch those poor numbers in 3 meters until you die, only them one may be able to notice that pattern. :)

In the case of a microcontroller , the only thing necessary is the controller to measure the voltages to a certain accuracy and calculate the "moving average". If that average goes below a certain point (whatever is the choice one makes, lets say for example below 1volts from the last hour) them the switching A or B or combination of both should be done.

In my tests when I am manually watching and switching I realized that when the voltage gets to a max value (but it fluctuates a lot in between) and start to decline at least 0.005 volts from that max (also fluctuating a lot in between) I force the Switch SW1 + SW2 A or B depending on the state of the voltages of all batteries. SO think that the microcontroller CAN watch voltages at 3 digits accuracy and that will be enough for the a "program" to calculate the deviation and average it to find if it is going UP or going DOWN. For a person watching the numbers it will be necessary to have 5 at least or more digits to SEE that fluctuation and make an rough estimate to where the voltage is going UP or Down.

Concerning the microcontroller programming skills, I have a good friend that are helping me with the task (Groundloop) but anyone is welcome to participate and come up with ideas and tests. This friend of mine also have already a 6 channel switching device using transistors that can switch batteries from a previous project of hours from the Tesla Switch project here in this forum. So no relays to be used in the future.

And you also right concerning the fan being able to stop when the switching happens so that is a problem for now but I am not going to die for it yet. :)

And also the total voltage is in noway a demonstration of overunity (thank you for saying that, I totally forgot to mention that) but IF I can make the fan run for years in those batteries without ANY external power, i think i achieved what I want and it would be great to improve that to a bigger design.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mondrasek on September 02, 2009, 07:54:27 PM
b) While I think that max(Voltage batA + Voltage batB + Voltage batC)
is a probably valid way to measure the system state of charge, it is
not a technical proof of the the total energy state of charge
in the system. Just don't get too disappointed if the above is true.

While playing around with a 12V Bedini/Imhotep fan I tried charging NiCd batteries.  I immediately noticed that charging with the BEMF spikes (~300V) would cause the batteries to charge to a higher voltage.  A hicap 9V NiCd (nominal 8.4V) would charge to 9.8V.  An AA 1.5V NiCd (nominal 1.2V) would charge to 1.4V.  I did not charge these for a long time, just until the voltage stabilized, and in all cases they did not run a load as they had almost no current.  But then I could charge them all with a normal NiCd charger and they would charge to the same higher voltage and also have current to run a load.  I never learned exactly why this happened and did not pursue testing to see if the overall energy state of charge in the higher voltage batteries was greater than that in their original lower voltage forms.  My *guess* is that the high voltage charging spikes of the Bedini/Imhotep fan "conditioned" these batteries so that they charged to a higher voltage but probably held the same or less less overall charge.  They have never appeared to run longer than their unconditioned counterparts (actually less) but that is purely a subjective observation.

Reading about high voltage (Bedini type) charging of SLA batteries will lead you to information on "conditioning" of that battery type.  IIRC the lead oxide crystals form finer patterns on the plates leading to a visibly lighter gray coating on the plates than with conventional charging.  I do not remember reading anything that says the peak voltage increases like I witnessed in my small NiCd batteries.  But if they do, you might be seeing a voltage rise with an equal or greater drop in current capacity leading to no overall gain.  I am not sure how you would check to see if your batteries are achieving a higher overall energy state of charge and not just a higher peak voltage.

Good luck with your research.  I look forward to reading your results.

M.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 02, 2009, 08:30:28 PM
@mondrasek,

Thanks for the comment.

My observations with Bedini system and charging batteries are exactly the same as yours. What surprised me here in this variation of mine (which is not very logical to EEs with diode D2 and the extra inverted B3 and B2) is that I noticed the total voltage increasing instead of decreasing.

I never had a Bedini system increasing ALL the batteries overall voltage in a system as whole before. I was very surprised and sick, so why not play more?

Right now, I dont believe I am at OU at all just a weird behavior that is allowing me to keep going with that fan for 7 days now. Let's see if it will continue charging the batteries and at least maintaining the total voltages and the fan spinning or not.

Actually, the original idea I had when I started this "way to much time doing that already" experiment is that I was reading about Rosemary Ainslie and Gotluc experiments and I thought: Why not instead of using a resistor use a Battery and instead of having a regular pulser why not use an SSG so that i can test this too. That's when the extra two batteries came in place and the diode D2.

I was surprised also that B3 even charge at all!!!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: bigface on September 03, 2009, 11:59:20 PM
why don't you guys use ammeters to measure how much power is actually being used by the chargin battery and how much power is absorbed by the others.  Or use a device that measures the instantaneous voltage and current every second or so and have it graph V*I of all three batteries.  The energy is the area under the graph.  Judging energy using only the battery voltage doesn't seem very scientific.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 04, 2009, 02:06:33 AM
@bigface,

thank you for your comments.

I agree with you that only measuring voltages is not the only option but I disagree that the method used now is not scientific. It is scientific as much as one can observe, measure, repeat and theorize formulating possible future outcomes based on the analysis of the data. I agree it is now missing huge amounts of data to be established as an accurate evidence of the fact.

First we need more people replicating its initial aspects to invest more man power into it and may be than create more data gathering methods that would satisfy a greater audience.

The reason I am not caring much about the total power in versus power out is because there are many other forums discussing that right now including the source of the Bedini motors at the yahoo group which I am also a member. I also had done over 200 charge and discharge tests with accurate computerized equipment measuring exactly that, with tons of data and nice excel sheets showing pretty graphics, including showing sporadic COP > 1.

This will not demonstrate anything either. My goal in this thread is to show this weird behavior (at least for me) where the total voltages are increasing as one exploits this phenomena and IF I can keep the fan spinning for months who really cares? It would be OU for me right there (if that happens).

To be a little bit more specific this particular system of mine is running at about 20ma of consumption at about 12 vdc or so on the input.

If you are interested in investing your time with more advanced process, please, participate with your experiment and share your results.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 04, 2009, 10:10:37 PM
why don't you guys use ammeters to measure how much power is actually being used by the chargin battery and how much power is absorbed by the others.  Or use a device that measures the instantaneous voltage and current every second or so and have it graph V*I of all three batteries.  The energy is the area under the graph.  Judging energy using only the battery voltage doesn't seem very scientific.


Don't forget that current is not energy just like voltage is not energy.

You can do this, but it is very tough to do without slowing the time
dynamics down so that the signal doesn't pulse. Removing the pulses can
be done with a buffer - a capacitor. The motor's nature is to be dynamic -
so what you have to do is drain some energy off as DC and measure that
excess. Once you have it, you adjust to drawing off as much as possible
and have the motor still run. This is your estimate which you divide by the
amount of time, known as the integration period, and start integrating
again for the next value.

---

To: Plengo

You really want your goal to be "Science" put before "Finishing
the Project". To do this you want the instrumentation and control
power supplies to be independent of the "core circuit activity"
until you have proven or have an estimate of how much extra energy
has come from the core circuit (/time). Reed relays and opto's can do the
isolation. This leaves the overunity energy intact in the core circuit.
Raw transistors don't isolate (especially bipolar transistor) so for this
part of the project you simply have the transistors drive reed relays,
that do the actual signal switching.

Now once you have proven,the overunity energy and approximately how
much, you can design the control and instrumentation circuitry with merged
power supply with the core circuit that use just the sufficient fraction of
what is being created...that has to take place before the unit is claimed
to be full overunity – but it need not be the first goal. It’s the overunity
of the core circuit that is important, but technically the control and
instrumentation need to be “paid for” from the core overunity eventually.
– leaving user energy.

---

By the way, the source and charge battery that are back-to-back you
might try placing power diodes backward across these batteries. Current in
one direction discharges one battery or the other and the extra diodes
would provide a  “non-discharge” pathway. (If it doesn’t break circuit
operation), that is.

---

It's very easy to convert an old spare slow PC computer, into a
process control computer, and it can be somewhat
easier to program in your favorite HLL,-then it is to program
a microcontroller. The input and output bits can then be read
and written into something called a Port Expander. I've done several
projects in this way and they are a lot of fun. If you can control a process
manually, then it's easy to control it by computer. Let me know if
you would like to do this and I can send you a port expander circuit
expandable to any number of Input and Output signal bits.


---

In the long term - gross battery voltage increases are state of charge
increases, but only in the long term - assuming the batteries are functioning
normally.

Also, if the circuit works as advertised then the control microcomputer
can be used to draw off the excess energy and dissipate it in a load
(while measuring the total amount). This will need to happen
by some method if it is functioning.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 05, 2009, 02:14:53 AM
Hey mscoffman, great advices, thank you.

Can you post a quick drawing of what you mean with the diode backwards?  And yes I would accept your help concerning that PC communication "expander" and how to do it. It would really accelerate my project since I can only switch automatically today using a function generator and a relay and it is under a fixed timed pulse which is not at all optimal.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 05, 2009, 06:15:07 PM
Hey mscoffman, great advices, thank you.

Can you post a quick drawing of what you mean with the diode backwards?  And yes I would accept your help concerning that PC communication "expander" and how to do it. It would really accelerate my project since I can only switch automatically today using a function generator and a relay and it is under a fixed timed pulse which is not at all optimal.

Fausto.

See if I can do an ascii(or whatever diagram)

    Charge                     Source II
             |                        |
<----*---| |------*------|  |-----*---->
       |     |           |            |       |
       | (-)   (+)      |    (+)       (-) |       
       |                  |                    |
       *------>|----*------|<------*
              1n4001           1n4001

The diodes blocks each of their own batteries but lets
current flow around it when the other one is driving.
This is especially important so that the charge battery
does not get hit with a drive pulse. The circuit will definitely
function differently though...In Bedini circuit the charge
battery is opposite polarity then the Souce because BEMF
(back from the wheel) is reversed. If the both don't
work one should then the other.

---

Ok, good! On the expander, I usually use PAL programmed array logic drive
circuit but I have done a pure 3 TTL IC integrated circuit version. An old PC
usually has RS232 signal connectors, which I use. Newer PC's would require
an available USB to RSR232 converter dongle adapter.

:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 11, 2009, 02:13:43 AM
some updates: This week I got two boards from Groundloop that will help me with the microcontroller and voltage measurements. One board has the PIC16F84 (if I am not wrong) and has 6 opt-transistor for the switching of the batteries. The other board is for the voltage differential measurement.

I will have to study a little bit how to make them work and hopefully with Groundloops help I will have the code doing the measurement and the switching inteligentely.

I also purchased some more parts that are needed for this new system.

Meantime I have been pulsating my 3 batteries using a function generator and testing many different configurations. Some better than others. All numbers have been taken and the graph is simply intriguing.

I will prepare the pictures of those graphs and upload this weekend (when I have some time). They are, to my view, a mixture of success and failures. Many different configurations were tested on the fly but never I recharged the batteries. Final voltages on all batteries added is not above when I started 2 weeks ago. It is only 1 volts below.

So I guess I will have to get this automated thing going to have success in a more prolonged fashion.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: MileHigh on September 13, 2009, 09:15:43 AM
Fausto:

I read through your thread and just want to mention a few things.

In this circuit B1 never gets charged through D1.  When I see a schematic diagram that is not too complicated I try to look at it and work out how it works in my head.  I think that is a good thing to do for everyone that wants to experiment with your circuit or simply follow the thread in detail.  I will leave it as an exercise for those that are curious enough to see why B1 never gets any charging energy from the spike.

When you do get a spike going through D1, the energy goes to two places, but it's hard to say precisely what the proportion is between the two.  The first place is the B2-B3 battery combination, where the spike will result in a small discharge of B2 ("helping" the spike), and a small charging of B3.  The second place is through D2.  I assume that you would consider it to be undesirable to discharge through D2 because that represents lost spike energy that doesn't charge any of the batteries.  That is another investigation - trying to determine if D2 is "stealing" your charging energy from the pulses.  Why do you have D2 in the circuit anyways?

For your microcontroller or PC-based control system, why don't you just keep it simple and just use it to program switching intervals in software instead?  You can do any timing you want and if you assume the system can demonstrate over unity, it has to arrive at some sort of steady state.  This implies that you don't really need to measure the battery voltages.  Of course you are already doing that with your pulse generator setup, but changing the timing for the switching over to a microcontroller or a computer would be much more "elegant."

Someone mentioned monitoring the fan speed with the sense line and that is a fantastic idea.  I am just not sure if you will still have a working sense line any more because you destroyed the motor controller board.  You could easily make an alternative sense line by picking up a signal from the spike itself, and connecting that to the microcontroller input.  Certainly the microcontroller in conjunction with it's on-board timers and the development software (or PC equivalent) could make an extremely accurate measurement of the fan speed or the pulse frequency of the spike, and this is indirectly giving you the net voltage across the three batteries in series.  However, I have a feeling that you want to measure the individual battery voltages.  If the microcontroller has an on-board A/D converter you should be able to use that to measure the battery voltages quite accurately through signal conditioning.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 13, 2009, 04:32:53 PM
Thanks MileHigh for great advices.

You are correct in your understanding of the circuit as I understand it too. I am not sure if it is really what happens because I am no EE but nonetheless it is what I see it too.

Concerning D2, I put it there because if you connect directly from D1 to negative of B3 it will decrease the speed of the fan dramatically and totally steal that spike from D1. If you dont have D2 at all the system runs way too fast consuming too much amps. So D2 is kind of regulating the system.

Now, secretly I believe (and this is my non EE understanding of the system - absolutely not conventional) that D2 is also directing a "negative" pulse from the coil back to the B1 battery which in fact runs down faster when D2 is not there, so some thing is charging or keeping B1 of discharging too fast via D2.

In all I think there is nothing special about this system and those that worked with Bedini SSGs have been here. I think the special is the voltage levels increased overall when the switching happens and If I take in consideration what Tesla did with his 4 battery switch project I think there is something special about it.

Concerning the timing, yes, I have been testing with my relays and function generator and the outcome is a mix of failures and successes. Timing will definitely prolong the life of the system to at least twice. No OU because the battery still runs down, but an improvement. It is really, in my opinion, the timing has to be on the right spot.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 15, 2009, 06:09:18 PM
Fausto;

I think you are wasting your time trying to control your Bedini unit by
dead-reckoning with fixed time periods for on-and off. I can pretty much
guarantee that the overunity in these Bedini machines is a *process* that
needs to be controlled via monitoring. Fausto, if you complete this project
I promise you, based on the probabilities of what I have seen about things,
the world will not soon forget you.

You see there are two different approaches to this problem, one is giantism
– Build a giant machine, because the overunity process then becomes a
dominant process. The problem with that is it becomes potentially dangerous
and it no longer fits on a desk and expensive to do, requires space to build
etc. The better approach is to use one of monitoring and control of a
desktop size system, by inducing sufficient efficiency into the device’s
operation. That requires instrumentation expertise, which is what you are
developing. Believe me, once one understands what one is doing
systemically, safely scaling it up in size will be no problem. Any size
system will require rotation of batteries to prevent HV from burning-in to
a particular position, and therefore levelizing wear among batteries.

---
   
Also, those back-to-back polarity canceling acid/lead batteries are a
complex system and not easily analyzable. Their net voltage will go above
and below zero. Any static charge would move around between them in an
unpredictable fashion. These could emulate an ice-scraper by boosting one
voltage above the other, in a kind of a self regulating mode, they are not as
simple as most other components connected with back-to-back polarity
appear to be.

---

I had to rework my RSR232 Port Expander interface because I had forgotten
some drawbacks that I previously experimentally removed. But I am slowly
completing the documentation of it. It is a very good demonstration for why
one uses PALs Programmable Array Logic and why for an IC integrated circuit
designs above two IC’s…Microcontrollers often make more sense.
 
---

Below is a link to the datasheet  for PIC microcontroller you mentioned. The
PIC16F84;

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/35007b.pdf

---

Below are weblinks to a number of advertisements of inexpensive
commercial DVM’s that output their readings to an RS232 serial port as
well as their internal LCD display. They are generally less than $100. They
have a “gate” time of about one reading per second. (Having two of these,
one for voltage the other for current would be what is required for a formal
proof of overunity energy production for any device.) Several have built in
frequency meter setting. (ie. for RPM measuring)…Nice.

http://www.electronic-supply.com/DMM-page.htm

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103962

http://www.cs-sales.net/veindimuwida.html

http://www.apogeekits.com/multimeter_dvm345di.htm

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/1581214.pdf

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/137462.pdf

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=137462&

---


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: MileHigh on September 17, 2009, 02:20:15 AM
Fausto,

I am sorry but I am not going to get too involved in this thread.  If you do some critical searching on Bedini motors you will find the 'other' viewpoint.  Try searches like "bedini not working" or "bedini failure" or "bedini fraud."  I think there is even a Bedini motor thread on this web site where people talk about doing serious test runs and there is no over unity.

I suggest that you try to at least prove that you have something with a basic setup, before you get more complex.  Learn how to make the measurements and figure it out for yourself, and do it seriously.

You will find that there is nothing there, but you have to prove it to yourself.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 17, 2009, 03:11:13 AM
Thanks MileHigh,

I already been through that road with Bedini and I do know if it works or not already too. But again, thanks for the good advice.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Mk1 on September 17, 2009, 08:55:19 AM
http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/29990/Dr__Steven_Greer_The_Promise_of_New_Energy/
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 17, 2009, 02:53:15 PM
Thanks Mk1 for the video, but what is the relevance of it with this thread?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Lakes on September 17, 2009, 05:25:32 PM
He spammed most of the threads with that... :(
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 17, 2009, 06:02:28 PM
http://www.disclose.tv/viewvideo/29990/Dr__Steven_Greer_The_Promise_of_New_Energy/

I don't much like these 'space aliens' trying to lay claim to overunity energy
tech. Our science is alive...Sorry about yours.

I don't know whether they are competitive or not, but if they want to help
the world develop new energy devices, they need to do it now...because
this train is getting ready to leave the station.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 17, 2009, 06:39:34 PM
Fausto,

I am sorry but I am not going to get too involved in this thread.  If you do some critical searching on Bedini motors you will find the 'other' viewpoint.  Try searches like "bedini not working" or "bedini failure" or "bedini fraud."  I think there is even a Bedini motor thread on this web site where people talk about doing serious test runs and there is no over unity.

I suggest that you try to at least prove that you have something with a basic setup, before you get more complex.  Learn how to make the measurements and figure it out for yourself, and do it seriously.

You will find that there is nothing there, but you have to prove it to yourself.

MileHigh

I think if you read carefully what plengo has previously posted in this
thread he is a bit of an expert on these Bedini SGS machines, which is
what is required. Quite frankly there are a number of different technologies
besides Bedini all claiming overunity, and IMHO, they all contain certain
common underlying features with Bedini.

The problem is without firm knowledge, which is how most people
operate, it is very difficult to prove anything. A continuously
self running system even with an externally energy-funded control
system (not energy-funding the core) would pretty much seal the
fact that something unusual is happening. A control system can be designed
that uses arbitrarily low amounts of power, depending on how much effort one
wants to put in on it's design. It would be preferable to find out how much
the core circuit can supply, then design a final controller. Also Battery
swapping and monitoring is required in a number of different overunity
energy configurations which contains certain complexities.

Science knows pretty much, it also knows the boundary of what it knows,
so sometimes it requires someone who can push the envelope to make
advancements.

I'm hoping that plengo keeps the design open and at a high level so that
others can contribute to move it ahead. Once it is semiproven perhaps he
could clone *and test* his hardware so that others can duplicate his effort.
Excess complexity, too soon, is always the enemy, but I know from past
experience that people set up projects in that way...so I can only hope.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on September 17, 2009, 07:21:27 PM
Fausto,

The new 4 channel differential inputs data sampler with relay control
is well underway. I will get the pcbs in a week time. When I have tested
the new HW and SW then I will ship you a board (+ some hard to find parts).
This circuit is freeware.
I will post the SW later on when everything checks out OK.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 18, 2009, 01:03:21 AM
@Lakes, thanks for confirming what that video seams to be. A spam.

For now I am allowing a little bit of "crap" in our thread but soon if continues with things like that, I will simply delete it and delete all following responses too. No offence to anyone it is just that I HATE having to read 200 pages of talk and chat for only 10% being useful. This time I asked Stefan to give me the moderation rights so that I can keep it clean (which I do and I will).

@mscoffman

Yes, I agree with you. I dont care if aliens exists or not, if Jesus is not God (even thought I do care) or if the world is going to hell. IN THIS THREAD I only care about what is relevant to this technology and how WE can make it happen. :)

And as you wish, this project is for all and it will be always open source. It does not means it will succeed but I sure hope so too.

@Groundloop

Man, thank you my good friend. I am almost taking for granted your expertise and excellence in skills. It is that you present such a great focused quality work that it baffles me. :Oo) 

Thank you for sharing your new 2 in one setup. I am in the testing phase now with the TS (Tesla Switch). I just got the opts and the max chip and the HEX downloader too.

Also I am learning a lot about programming the PIC and it is fun the least to say.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 22, 2009, 01:54:40 PM
Updates: Last night I purchased new 4 2000mah hours lead acid batteries from Radio Shack. They are for camcorders. Very small in size and ideal for this application. I charged them last night using my 6 pole Bedini SSG. As a matter of fact I charged 6 batteries at once using my super 6 pole with no problems and no warming or damaging to any of the batteries. What a technology!!!

I got my opts in and finally I was able to program the PIC16F84a using a PICDEM lab. I did some quick tests using MPLAB IDE. Tonight I will do a quick runtest using 4 batteries aka Tesla Switch just for the fun of it and see the reaction with this first time experience.

I will run the Tesla Switch simply because I still have to learn and play with the other board that Groundloop gave me, the one that measure the voltage. Baby steps :)

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 22, 2009, 06:09:33 PM
Plengo;


Glad to hear you are getting somewhere.

---

In your initial schematic in this thread where you have N4007 and N5408
Listed, these should be; 1N4007 and 1N5408 respectively – 1N=diodes,
2N = transistors, 4N=opto’s

---

If you could, in your posts, limit the line lengths, as they go off the
right side of my screen making them hard to read and summarize.
Use Preview...I’d prefer not to miss anything.

---

There are about 4 difference possibilities for energy gain in
these circuit situations. The Tesla switch (without any HV
inductive pulse) makes use of only one, While the Bedini Fan
would possibly make use of all four. A high power Bedini
machine like your 6 pole SGS makes use of all four plus it has
a fifth which is actually a cheat. It really doesn’t matter though,
if you are simply using this as a battery charger, but for
energy creation that is a different thing.

It isn’t surprising to me that your Bedini SGS can charge
more than one battery at a time in parallel. Think of the Bedini
recharge pulse, as a signal; to have the batteries recharge
themselves. As long as the signal gets through to the batteries
it generally doesn’t matter how powerful the SGS is! I call the
Bedini motor ‘An Exciter’ by the way.

---

Your should try to configure your tesla switch with the same three battery
configuration as the Bedini Fan using the two back-to-back batteries
as a regulator. If so I predict you will see the same kind of behavior on
the tesla switch battery voltage meter as you did on the Fan.

---

Another question I had is whether the your meters have any computer
interface connector on the back? New ones are probably labeled HPIB,
the old ones probably have a connector labeled something-BCD.

---

Finally, it would be nice to know what the voltages are on the batteries
after a one second “cool down” period disconnected completely from the
exciter, and whether they match the voltages on the batteries while they
are running the circuit. One could use an electrolytic capacitor to
keep the Fan circuit running while using reed relays to disconnect
battery chain completely (on both ends) from the Fan circuit for
measurement. This should stop the digit bobbling completely and allow
for one or two voltage measurements rather than a moving average
algorithm, also allowing for use of a less digit accurate meter. This may
be a necessity, if you want to use Groundloop's u'p based meter circuit.

Hopefully, doing this will not invalidate what was already seen
– but it could.

In any case take it easy and good luck.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 22, 2009, 07:57:06 PM
@mscoffman

Quote
In your initial schematic in this thread where you have N4007 and N5408
Listed, these should be; 1N4007 and 1N5408 respectively – 1N=diodes,
2N = transistors, 4N=opto’s
you are correct. The diodes are 1N4007 and 1N5408 and the transistor 2N kinds. 
The Bedini circuit for the fan is not really relevant since ANY SSG will do.
The extra stuff is what is relevant.

I noticed the screen going to the right when pictures are embedded too. So I will
do my best with the line lenght.

Quote
There are about 4 difference possibilities for energy gain in
these circuit situations. The Tesla switch (without any HV
inductive pulse) makes use of only one, While the Bedini Fan
would possibly make use of all four. A high power Bedini
machine like your 6 pole SGS makes use of all four plus it has
a fifth which is actually a cheat. It really doesn’t matter though,
if you are simply using this as a battery charger, but for
energy creation that is a different thing.

It isn’t surprising to me that your Bedini SGS can charge
more than one battery at a time in parallel. Think of the Bedini
recharge pulse, as a signal; to have the batteries recharge
themselves. As long as the signal gets through to the batteries
it generally doesn’t matter how powerful the SGS is! I call the
Bedini motor ‘An Exciter’ by the way.

I was surprise, very surprised to see my 6 pole SSG charging as many batteries as
I want in parallel. When I did my load tests in the past I NEVER used in that configuration.
I always had one battery in the front and one in the back. Simply because I was
doing measurements to see if the Bedini's claims were correct or not.

I can not understand how can one not see the amazing benefit of an SSG when charging
many batteries as I did. I am suspicious that 6 batteries in the back-end is NOT the limit.


Quote
Your should try to configure your tesla switch with the same three battery
configuration as the Bedini Fan using the two back-to-back batteries
as a regulator. If so I predict you will see the same kind of behavior on
the tesla switch battery voltage meter as you did on the Fan.
As I was driving to work, I thought about keeping it to only
3 batteries and also use the configuration I did already (just as you mentioned).

Quote
Another question I had is whether the your meters have any computer
interface connector on the back? New ones are probably labeled HPIB,
the old ones probably have a connector labeled something-BCD.

I do have a meter that can connect to the computer and also I have the CBAII which is
what I have been using in the past for voltage measurements. The only problem is that
that system eats about 10ma of power from the system. I will look into what interface
my meter uses. I will look tonight what kind connection my meter uses. I know already
it would cost me another $80 for the device.

Quote
Finally, it would be nice to know what the voltages are on the batteries
after a one second “cool down” period disconnected completely from the
exciter, and whether they match the voltages on the batteries while they
are running the circuit. One could use an electrolytic capacitor to
keep the Fan circuit running while using reed relays to disconnect
battery chain completely (on both ends) from the Fan circuit for
measurement. This should stop the digit bobbling completely and allow
for one or two voltage measurements rather than a moving average
algorithm, also allowing for use of a less digit accurate meter. This may
be a necessity, if you want to use Groundloop's u'p based meter circuit.

That's a good point to ponder about. Well, I am a little bit far from that
still since I only got to the Tesla Switch so far and tonight will be my first
run.

Thanks for the advices,
Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 26, 2009, 05:02:56 PM

@All;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8090.msg#new

The above link points to the documentation on a PC
host computer interface based on ten common TTL
IC's that allows expansion to 80 bits on both input and
output. Software is users's responsibility as always.
Based on what I've promised.

A microcontroller and this interface are really interchangeable solutions
other than that it's very easy to archive data to a hard disk
on a host.


@mscoffman

I do have a meter that can connect to the computer and also I have the
CBAII which is what I have been using in the past for voltage
measurements. The only problem is that that system eats about 10ma of
power from the system. I will look into what interface my meter uses. I will
look tonight what kind connection my meter uses. I know already it would
cost me another $80 for the device.



I doubt that that it takes the 10ma from the voltage probes!
So an independent power supply for the meter seems doable.
This whole thing would only be done to provide a "scientific link"
to what you've already seen, so you could make one step at time
changes.

---

The screen width info seems to be coming form the web board - the
initial messages to this thread!

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on September 26, 2009, 05:31:42 PM
@mscoffman,

Said:
"Finally, it would be nice to know what the voltages are on the batteries
after a one second “cool down” period disconnected completely from the
exciter, and whether they match the voltages on the batteries while they
are running the circuit. One could use an electrolytic capacitor to
keep the Fan circuit running while using reed relays to disconnect
battery chain completely (on both ends) from the Fan circuit for
measurement. This should stop the digit bobbling completely and allow
for one or two voltage measurements rather than a moving average
algorithm, also allowing for use of a less digit accurate meter. This may
be a necessity, if you want to use Groundloop's u'p based meter circuit."

Yes, that is why I'm building the new combined switch and relay board.

It will be easy to wire up a circuit for test with 6 independent relays. The
board is connected to a PC via serial communication and the host PC will
be able to control the measurements and the relays. A RS232 to USB dongle
can be used on computers that do not have the old serial port. The Maxim
analog to digital converter used is a very good converter. It has 12 bit
resolution. One other nice feature is the four differential inputs.
We can measure four different voltages without any defined ground.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 06, 2009, 12:13:20 AM
Updates:

I have been testing the HELL of the TS with 4, 3, 2 and 1 battery. Baby steps! There are so many variables that it is difficult to keep myself focused.

I am testing each concept from 4 to 1 "nodes" so that I can understand the dynamics. So far nothing special about the switching and how the batteries operate. They indeed discharge regularly when used in the Tesla 4 Switch project BUT I have found something extremely weird.

In one of my configs (which soon I will show schematics) I have one battery and 2 capacitors working as if they were other batteries. I also had an SSG connected so that things are going towards this projects principals. One thing has happend when I removed my SSG and replaced it with a cap and the whole system is switching at around 5khz but no flow of energy anywhere and the battery is charging for the last 3 days non stop.

There is no logical explanation (at least that I could find) for the particular behavior (you guys will see the schematics and you will see it makes no sence).

Soon more info to come (I am at work now).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 06, 2009, 10:14:21 PM
I am so pissed. THis thing not only is craizy it is insane. It simply stopped working after 4 consecutive days of running the voltage on the battery up.

No reason whatsoever to either make the voltage go up and neither to stop all of a sudden.

I am sure not to be insane because I simply caught it on camera. I rebuild the thing and still no replication. I am so bummed!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 07, 2009, 01:41:16 AM
Fausto,

Please post a drawing of your newest setup. Are you running the TS from a
separate power source? If you do, just remember that there IS a small power
transfer through the optocouplers. The reason for this is that the base inside
the optocoupler is a small "solar cell" receiving power from the internal led.
The power transfer IS small but it is there.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 07, 2009, 05:03:25 PM
I am so pissed. THis thing not only is craizy it is insane. It simply stopped working after 4 consecutive days of running the voltage on the battery up.

You know, the voltage on a battery can't go up forever...You must
be a Republican - just kidding.

Please post a schematic. It may be that a DC voltage on a capacitor
needs to mimic what was going on in in the other setup to unbalance
the circuit. I doubt if you even have an external control/sensor
circuit right? I suspect that the first free energy mechanism is
associated with charging the battery in a way to have it accept
external heat energy, which is possible in Chemical science. But
you are going to need to find out what that method actually is.

:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 08, 2009, 03:43:07 AM
Guys thank you for asking for the schematics. Forgive me for not showing it yet simply because I was analyzing the real physical circuit to make sure I was doing what I was really doing. I also disassembled it and put it back just to see if there is no connection failures.

To my surprise nothing was wrong and somethings were not what I thought it would be. So, I decided to try my "monkey science" again and see if I could replicate it and voala! I can, and I can replicate it as many times as I want really, really easy. It is so easy that I am about to create a very simple circuit that will be replicatable by those who have the TS circuit (like you Groundloop).

It is indeed something very weird and I can make the battery voltage go UP ABOVE that starting voltage. I can let the battery sit and rest and try it and it will GO UP. There is a point though, that the voltage will STOP going up and start to go down to a certain still above resting voltage and stay there. Then I can do my "magic" again and the voltage will GO UP again and again and again. Actually I dont even have to wait for the voltage to go down and rest, I can keep doing as the voltage reaches the top tipping point and do my" magic" and get it to go UP again and again.

I have not found the limit yet, but I also dont have all the time in the world to wait for that, so, I am creating a new circuit that will do that for me kind of automatic.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 08, 2009, 04:11:48 AM
.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 08, 2009, 04:30:52 AM
Ok. here it goes the explanation. Please bear with me on this one.

In 1) I show a regular SSG circuit with a driving battery B2 and a charging battery B1. Nothing special.

In 2) I show how I implemented the Switching mechanism. Notice the S1 is one switching that only connects the negative terminal of B1 to the negative rail of the system. S2 does the same for B2. S3 only connects the positive terminal of B1 to the diode D1 when it is turned on otherwise that connection (and ALL other connections follows the same rule) is opened. S4 connects positive of B1 to the positive rail of the system. S5 connects positive of B2 to D1, S6 connects positive of B2 to positive rail of system.

The switching goes like this at 50khz: S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6 all OFF. Than I turn on S3, S2 and S6 for sometime. Next I turn off S3, S2 and S6 and give some 5us time and turn ON S5, S4, S1. Wait sometime and start all over again with ALL switches off.

This goes on at infinitum until I die.:)

Now, here is the mystery. If you let this system run you will simply deplete all batteries. Nothing special. SO, I changed the circuit slowly until I reached stage 4) where B1 has been replaced with a capacitor C2 and disconnected SSG from all, except for D1 (I Know it does not make sence and who cares, I am craizy anyway).

Remember that in 4) the schematics is not showing the switches but they are there just like in circuit 2). I am still switching B2 with C1 in position if you study how the swtiches goes. It is the same as physically taking B2 and putting in place of C1 and vice-versa at the rate of 50khz.

BTW, 50khz is a number that I found by simply trying the hell of it with all sort of frequencies until I get the best results and the batteries are 7amp/h SLAs.

Now here is the cool stuff:  Once upon a time I shorted B2 when running circuit 4) by mistake and I noticed that the voltage on B2 dropped substantially but to only return back to where it was and all that while the system is running. Than the voltage started to increase really fast to ABOVE the voltage BEFORE the short. It went up for about 0.1v. The whole process took about a couple of hours.

I was so happy to see that that I started dreaming about the future of a better world already (dumb me :)). What I later learned that the voltage raize only worked for sometime and later the battery restored its resting voltage to a lower value but still above the voltage before the shorting. What I did not realized at the time was that the shortting did the trick. That's why I could not understand why all of a sudden the system "stopped working"!

Today I (3 days later) I realized that the shorting and the pulsating the batteries IS THE SECRET.

Now I am running a more simplified circuit (just a little bit simpler) with that in mind and at every 15 or so minutes I go there and short B2 for only a microsecond and voala, the voltage ALWAYS goes DOWN and UP to ABOVE the before previous voltage. I have been doing that tonight for a little while and the voltage from 11.58v now is 11.6540 and still razing as long as I do that "shorting trick".

My next design will do that automatically.

Fausto.


ps: to me this is a kind of Tesla Switch but with only one battery behavior.
ps2: if i do not do the "shortting trick" the battery WILL NOT raize in voltage. So I guess the bleeding power from the opts is not really responsible for the voltage raize. I also tested that letting the system run for a whole day without the "shortting" and the voltage actually decreased.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 08, 2009, 07:51:29 PM
Plengo;

Your experiment is going very well.

Question: At the top of the first schematic you have drawn a transformer,
Is that really a transformer or is that the coils of an SGS motor? Is
The Bedini motor running during the events you describe?

---

I felt all along that shorting the battery was the key to this process.
I suspect what is happening is that the electrolyte in the battery
is showing “charge stratification". The shorting action causes
this to dissipate, and the charging process to continue.

The key of course is knowing, or being able to guess, the actual
long term state of charge voltage on the battery -> from
taking short term voltage readings. The other thing I found out
by reading the internet is that a load resistor across the battery
might help stabilize the voltage when taking voltage readings
with a high impedance DVM(1/8 watt, 1/4 watt...1/2 watt ect.)
This could be asserted easily via automation.

---

Your tendency to do “Monkey Science” as you describe it, actually
a try-everything approach is kind of like the invention methods
of T. Edison. But you will also need to behave like a fisherman and
“reel in your catch” once in a while by formalizing things or you
could miss something of value.

---

You should consider increasing the number of control ports on your
microcontroller. One way to do this is to simply glue the edge of
another vector board to your original, and rewire some additional
IC’s ports to the microcontroller. Be sure to add some of Groundloops
style relays and relay drivers.

---

You should look forward slightly towards your ultimate goal of draining
excess charged energy from the battery using automation.
Stopping your circuit and keeping track of the voltage as it drops
through a known load (higher wattage) resistor while also keeping track of
the time that it takes to meet a low voltage goal. This can be recorded
as Energy in watt-seconds. Once you beat the total ampere hour
Capacity or your battery – you have it – proven overunity energy.
You can then restart your circuit and get some more, repeatedly.

---

You can then optimize things futher to find out how much
you can get. Then look at running your automation with that.
A true perpetual motion machine - or close enough for me
anyhow.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 08, 2009, 08:13:28 PM
@mscoffman

thanks for the comments. Yes the coils in the schematics 1) is the coil of the SSG. That was what I started with when I was testing Groundloop's TS circuit. Something that I am familiar so why not try a tesla switch approach and see how the PIC controller works.

Than I slowly progresses towards the schematics on 4) where the SSG is gone and only the caps and one battery (B2) is left in place with the switching still going but slightly changed (as already shown on the switching sequence of previous posts).

Last night as I was changing to a fifth design where I would "short" the battery automatically but my switch SW6 burned. I guess the transistor is gone. I have to buy a new one and install.

Concerning a more advanced design for the future, I am on it. Thanks to Groundloop original design, I am expanding on it and creating a 12 switches circuit where I can not only do more but also I will be using a different PIC processor that I can real-time control via the USB of the computer.

I know you guys know how to do that already but for me it has been very difficult trying to program and test. There is lots to learn. I somehow think that a different PIC more inline with USB and ready for MICROCHIP products such as "PicKit 2 Debugger express" is easier for me and others to get ready boards and downloaders and other things to try this out.

The voltage raizing right after the short is simply phenomenal and not even logical in my opnion. I am suspicious that bigger the battery better it will be the raizing. I can barely wait for the weekend to try many things out. So little time.

BTW, since my board is out of order since last night, I noticed that the voltage on my battery is resting at a much higher voltage than even the previous achievements. Very weird. Soon I will also do a load test to see if it is indeed a real charge or ghost charge.

Oh, another important thing is, if you dont have at least a 4 digits voltmeter it will be difficult to see this effect at first, but if you somehow do that many times with intervals lets say of one hour in between the "shortings" you might see 1/10 of a voltage increase in a 7amp/h battery.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 08, 2009, 08:57:29 PM
Fausto,

The new data sampler and relay board is almost ready soldered. Now I have to
make some software and start testing. I will be using the board in the image
to test the software, and when I'm done, then I will ship this board to you.
You can reuse the three IC's from the old board and just load the new SW
in the pic mcu. I'm still waiting for parts so it will take some time. (A week or two.)

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 09, 2009, 06:23:04 PM
@mscoffman

Concerning a more advanced design for the future, I am on it. Thanks to Groundloop original design, I am expanding on it and creating a 12 switches circuit where I can not only do more but also I will be using a different PIC processor that I can real-time control via the USB of the computer.

I know you guys know how to do that already but for me it has been very difficult trying to program and test. There is lots to learn. I somehow think that a different PIC more inline with USB and ready for MICROCHIP products such as "PicKit 2 Debugger express" is easier for me and others to get ready boards and downloaders and other things to try this out.



>I always like to build an almost infinite expansion capability into these things
>because Like you already know, at first you want to build the u'p into
>the circuit to run it, and then you want to build some instrumentation
>into it, and then you want build some data archival, each step wants to
>control more and more digital lines. The downside to using a big version
>of the PIC chips is that is going to use more power when you eventually
>want to use limited power! I have used the 16F59 a 40pin chip and I
>programmed it with the standard PIC programmer.

> Also the key to software programming is getting some subroutines that
> you both completely understand and you know are completely reliable.
>This certainly takes time to do.

> I often find the easiest thing is to just patch some additional
>goodies into what you already have, then wait till the end to
>redesign it to the best possible way.

@mscoffman

The voltage raizing right after the short is simply phenomenal and not even logical in my opinion. I am suspicious that bigger the battery better it will be the raizing. I can barely wait for the weekend to try many things out. So little time.

BTW, since my board is out of order since last night, I noticed that the voltage on my battery is resting at a much higher voltage than even the previous achievements. Very weird. Soon I will also do a load test to see if it is indeed a real charge or ghost charge.



>You know when a battery becomes unloaded the voltage will rise
>with time. Like when you crank a car just a little to avoid using
>up the battery charge all at one time. The battery recovers some.

> Shorting a battery is definitely problematic, It will probably require a big
> relay (0ohms) whose contacts won't weld with the current.
> You may need to be satisfied with switching a low resistance high wattage
> resistor.

>Believe me, I have not said that "one size fits all" ie. lift-truck batteries
>are going to need to be handled the same way, but with
>vastly different switches. :)


[/quote]

@mscoffman

Oh, another important thing is, if you dont have at least a 4 digits voltmeter it will be difficult to see this effect at first, but if you somehow do that many times with intervals lets say of one hour in between the "shortings" you might see 1/10 of a voltage increase in a 7amp/h battery.


>By the way I was thinking if you need a very inaccurate voltage
>reading it may be possible to use the "control voltage pin" on
>an Ne555 timer to get timed pulses into the u'p then use a
>frequency to voltage conversion scheme to get an approximate
>but very inexpensive reading.

:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 10, 2009, 11:45:45 AM
Fausto,

The SW for the new data sampler and relay unit is done and tested.
(Attached is the HW design files and the SW source for the mcu.)
I selected to put my unit into a metal box. Looks nicer that way.

The unit has 4 unipolar differential inputs for 0 to 40,95 Volt. The
resolution for each input is 0,01 Volt. The accuracy for each input
is +/- 0,01 Volt. (This is by design of the MAX1202 a/d converter.)
(It is possible to use bipolar differential inputs by changing the SW.)
The sampling rate can be set from fast (29 single channel samplings pr. second
and 7 four channels samplings pr. second.) to slow.(1 sec steps up to 99 seconds.)
Unit has a built in real time clock.
The unit can be controlled by using a terminal program. Best result will be
with a application program run on a host PC.

Your card is waiting for some parts. Will ship as soon as I get them.

Design files and newest SW can be downloaded here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/DS_RL_V_1.rar

Groundloop.
 
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 10, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
@plengo

Associated with your battery shorting problem. How about using
a relay follower like this;

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Relay-BWD_5972280-P_409_R

It's cheap and could handle the high current. It may need to be fired
from an electrolytic capacitor, if you short it's only power source.
Just an idea.


---

@groundloop

This is a nice looking unit, with nice specs too.

---

@plengo

I am just throwing this out for your future consideration to
think about.

If you are running your PIC processor from a storage battery,
you may want to consider building a stand alone optoisolator
circuit (9pin to 9pin) to optoisolate your PIC processor from
your host PC for data transfer. This would segregate the
system ground from the PC ground for DC conductance
too. I'll try to find a circuit for this on the internet, it's
somewhat of a trick circuit but it will do the task.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 10, 2009, 09:34:20 PM
Fausto,

The SW for the new data sampler and relay unit is done and tested.
(Attached is the HW design files and the SW source for the mcu.)
I selected to put my unit into a metal box. Looks nicer that way.

The unit has 4 unipolar differential inputs for 0 to 40,95 Volt. The
resolution for each input is 0,01 Volt. The accuracy for each input
is +/- 0,01 Volt. (This is by design of the MAX1202 a/d converter.)
(It is possible to use bipolar differential inputs by changing the SW.)
The sampling rate can be set from fast (29 single channel samplings pr. second
and 7 four channels samplings pr. second.) to slow.(1 sec steps up to 99 seconds.)
Unit has a built in real time clock.
The unit can be controlled by using a terminal program. Best result will be
with a application program run on a host PC.

Your card is waiting for some parts. Will ship as soon as I get them.

Design files and newest SW can be downloaded here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/DS_RL_V_1.rar

Groundloop.

Oh my, this is AWSOME man. Beautifull design!!!

Hey Groundloop, what kind of relay is that in use? It is a one pole being either connected to either of the other 2 poles? If it is, it is EXCELLENT, no more concerns with positive and negative and much more flexible concerning current throughput, BUT if they are relays or some form of mechanical switching would not that limit the frequency? I am using now 50khz! (in Brazil they say: not trying to throw sand into your soup, BUT).

Fausto.



Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 10, 2009, 10:50:42 PM
Fausto,

You can use almost ANY relay you want as long as the relays has a 5volt coil
and the coil current do not exceed 100mA. I use relays that can handle 5 amp
and has a normal open / normal closed function (3 wires). My main goal was to design
a unit that could swap batteries etc. That said, one optocoupler and a transistor
instead of the relay, and you have a higher speed switching unit. It all depends
on what you want do do. The relays themselves can also control bigger relays etc.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 11, 2009, 10:39:42 PM

Just to amplify what Groundloop has said. The opto/transistor
do have high bandwidth, the leds use a certain amount of power
when they are on and the output pins are insulated from one
another only by semiconductor insulation and they have some
semiconductor "on" resistance.

Relays use a certain amount of power only when they are
on, have very low bandwidth (even less at higher powers)
- this will require built in software delays, but the input and
the two output leads have 100% insulation from one another
and 0ohms when the outputs are connected.

There is form of latching relay that is turned on and off
by 50ms 5volt (or whatever) pulses. So that for very low
power operations and very low bandwidth operations, they
consume almost no power. So I think you can see that you
can have whatever low bandwidth controls that you need
with extremely low net dissipated power.

:S:MarkSCoffman
 
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 12, 2009, 04:00:10 AM
Today I expended Groundloop's TS with one more opto and transistor (SW7) so that I implemented the "shortting" the battery programmaticaly.

It took me a little awhile because of the obvious protoboard "bad soldering of mine" thing but all figure out and it is running right now. Now I can finally rest and wait to see if indeed the battery charges and how much it will.


And @Groundloop,

I do see your point. Off course one can replace the relay with another opto/transistor combination. How could I have not thought about that?  :P

I really like the multi-function of your design. Great work!


@mscoffman,

thanks for the ideas and points. All taken.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 13, 2009, 08:27:21 PM
My experiment is going very well indeed. I am charging the battery with lots of problems but I am. In trying to understand why such a weird circuit that I showed before would charge the battery I started a little research and I think I found something from this forum driven by our friend Gotluc (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4807-no-current-polarity-flip-flop-pulse-cap-charge-circuit.html) that is presenting exactly the same behavior as mine except that I am using batteries instead of the caps only.

So, last night I changed my design a little bit to simulate what Gotluc is doing (which is basically switching the poles of the caps into other caps but never closing the loop) so to test if the battery and caps would indeed chage without closing the loop and I was surprised to see that indeed it does.

I have not read the whole thread from Gotluc but I can already say that indeed not closing the loop makes the caps charge which them I dump them in to the battery and that's is why my batteries are charging.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: guruji on October 13, 2009, 08:54:43 PM
Plengo thanks for your experiments. Can you please post the write circuit to charge the source battery so that I can replicate?
Thanks
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 13, 2009, 11:47:18 PM
Thanks guruji for participating.

The schematics has been 2 pages before published. The problem you will face is the switching mechanism used. I have a circuit built by Groundloop with my own assembler language programming. I am only expanding on that original design and trying every "monkey science" possible.

Sorry for not being able to give you more. If you play with it you should see this strange behavior that I am seeing.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: YeahRight on October 14, 2009, 12:57:34 PM
delete by moderator.

@YeaRight,

please do not start a flame discussion here. Open another thread for your ideas and concerns, besides Bedini CLEARLY states the COP > 1 is NOT in his machines but in the process inside the batteries.

Fausto
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 14, 2009, 06:35:29 PM
From: MarkCoffman

Hi!

On Sterling Allen’s Peswiki site, I saw the following quote from a Naysayer;

>I played with this kind of stuff [Bedini SGS] for three months a few years
>ago when I launched the Bedini SG open source project. I got quite
>excited several times, thinking I was seeing overunity, but whenever I
>waited long enough, and tested properly, the system always showed a
>net loss in power, as conventional science would predict. In other words,
>I could not prove with my system that some kind of external (free) energy
>was being harvested. I did see some interesting effects, but nothing
>practical.

On overunity.com [this thread] from user Plengo I saw the following; :)

>Updates: Last night I purchased... new lead acid batteries … Very small in
>size and ideal for this application. I charged them last night using my 6
>pole Bedini SSG. As a matter of fact, I charged all 6 batteries at once
>using my super 6 pole with no problems and no warming or damage to any
>of the batteries. What a technology!!!

Ok…Now, I do not see how both of the above statements can true. So I
would like to propose a very simple experiment to Plengo. This would find
overunity energy on the basis that; it takes no more energy from the real
Bedini SGS source battery to charge multiple charge batteries, then it does
to charge one. After all this device is supposedly gaining energy from the
much vaunted “radiant energy” source.

Proposed Experiment:

• So take six acid lead batteries (they don’t particularly need to be the
same capacity)

• Buy six Radio Shack DPDT 12Vdc double pole double throw relays and
power these from a boundary power supply.

 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062483

• Wire these relays to put a batteries in parallel with the “Source” side of
the real Bedini SGS when a relay is “On” and in parallel with “Charge” side
when the relay is “Off”. Very Simple.

• Use the microcontroller to turn on one battery at a time in round robin
fashion and go on to the next after N times ½ hour intervals. The N is
given as a variable at system start up time.

Note: For an N=8 (four hour) source intervals, a particular battery will be
able to recharge on the SGS for nearly 20 hours.

• 00#000 -> 000#00 -> 0000#0 -> 00000# -> #00000 ->0#0000 ->
00#000 ->...    ;       # - Source battery, 0 – Parallel charge battery

• Manually use a DVM to see if the charge battery bank voltage is going up
with time or if it is going down with time. If it is going up, then we have
probably seen overunity energy and we can complete the instrument. If it
is going down, then I will shut up and quit bugging this thread.  :)

{eoe}

If this works we can complete the instrument and then Plengo will be able
to see positively whether the experiments he conducts are actually
increasing the amount of excess energy, negatively decreasing the
amount, or not effecting the amount at all.

What do you think of this Plengo?


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 14, 2009, 07:08:11 PM
delete by moderator.

@YeaRight,

please do not start a flame discussion here. Open another thread for your ideas and concerns, besides Bedini CLEARLY states the COP > 1 is NOT in his machines but in the process inside the batteries.

Fausto


I agree, although I don't like suppressing anyone.

One important point in users YeaRight previous post is "Why the motor
form of the SGS?" The Answer is: it is better to have energy generated
in the form of a "unit" that provides energy gain; that is
have some  energy-out = fixed-gain times energy-in (as a control signal);
then it is to have energy invested in a fixed form that can go out of control
all at once.

Think of a large tank of distilled petroleum and a lit cigarette,
or dissolving 5 pounds of pure plutonium into a plastic bucket of nitric acid
and 5 pounds into another bucket and then pouring them together.
Or accidentally running a tanker truck filled with butane into
expressway retaining wall at 70Mph...I think you get the picture.

---

YeaRight ask; "Why not use capacitors rather than batteries?";
Fausto said it; Where the actual gain is vested in
unkown structures in a Bedini machine although
I have suggested I think there are four places where
extra energy could be coming in. Battery chemistry would probably
play roles in these, although electrolytic capacitors (contains water)
may see these too. Other type of capacitors like oil filled or tantalum
should not see some of these.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2009, 07:22:54 PM
@mscoffman,

interesting idea but I could not understand very well the logical distribution of the batteries in this scheme. Can you please describe it again? I am willing to carry that test. (sorry for removing your reply to Yeahright inappropriate post).

I use the term "front-end" equals the "driving" battery that runs the SSG and "back-end" the "charging" battery.

Now, I know for a fact by experience and from Bedini's own words that you CAN NOT run an SSG with the battery that was charged by the SSG because it is charged with a different kind of energy, so if you switch the batteries long enough the overall voltages WILL go down.

That's is why on the Bedini's forums at Yahoo we do the load test which is basically measuring how much energy goes into the "front-end" of the SSG (conventional energy cost) and how much energy you can TAKE OUT from the "charged" or "back-end" batteries using also a conventional load test (a lamp or resistor cross the batteries terminals).

We do not measure how much goes into the "back-end" battery.

This way one can compare the input total energy against the outputED energy FROM the battery. In versus Out.

Another thing that many fail to understand is that Bedini is not advocating his machines to be COP > 1, he is emphatically saying that the COP is IN the batteries.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: WilbyInebriated on October 14, 2009, 07:28:10 PM

I agree, although I don't like suppressing anyone.

One important point in users YeaRight previous post is "Why the motor
form of the SGS?" The Answer is: it is better to have energy generated
in the form of a "unit" that provides energy gain; that is
have some  energy-out = fixed-gain times energy-in (as a control signal);
then it is to have energy invested in a fixed form that can go out of control
all at once.

Think of a large tank of distilled petroleum and a lit cigarette,
or dissolving 5 pounds of pure plutonium into a plastic bucket of nitric acid
and 5 pounds into another bucket and then pouring them together.
Or accidentally running a tanker truck filled with butane into
expressway retaining wall at 70Mph...I think you get the picture.

---

YeaRight ask; "Why not use capacitors rather than batteries?";
Fausto said it; Where the actual gain is vested in
unkown structures in a Bedini machine although
I have suggested I think there are four places where
extra energy could be coming in. Battery chemistry would probably
play roles in these, although electrolytic capacitors (contains water)
may see these too. Other type of capacitors like oil filled or tantalum
should not see some of these.

:S:MarkSCoffman

i have created a thread just for yeahright's question. hopefully, if they are not trolls, he along with others like solinear, etc. will discuss it there instead of disrupting plengo's fine work here.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2009, 09:12:18 PM
@WilbyInebriated

thank you! I appreciate your help. I am just tired of reading through 200 pages of TPUs, Dr. Stifflers (I love his work) and  Mylow and so on to just get 10% of usefull stuff all the rest is non-sence flamming. So I am definitely removing ALL historical flaming outside of this threads intention with no mercy! Oh boy that makes me feel good!  ;D

@All,

some updates: Last night running more tests my board is cooked (the one that Groundloop sent me). Oh boy i love that board. It is impressively powerful. So, I am building a new protoboard with the exact same circuit plus a few more ports and if it works well I will make it into a copper board with replaceable transistors pins.

That also raises the questions of what I am doing wrong to burn the transistors and the simple answer is the way I am connecting the batteries and the caps. I am trying to understand and engineer why the batteries charge when flipping to the caps in this particular configuration of mine (number 4 or previous posts) where in some of the connections the battery is connecting to literally nothing (just the diode that was coming out from the SSG without the SSG).

I think that is one factor why the battery is charging plus what I think it is also the secret concerning the shorting of the battery momentarily. Studying Gotluc's forum that I also mention previously I can clearly see kind of how my batteries are charging without understanding why. I know some of the arguments presented there claims that the electrostatics and earth virtual grounds are the reason but I just dont buy that (and since I am not an EE I guess I can blindly believe in my experiments more than my lack of better theory).

I think my experiments are very similiar to what Gotluc is doing and since I am running this at 50khz I can see why my battery charges very well.

I really wished some people would try this and give more input about this phenomena and ways to improve on it and engineer it to scale up. Or it is just me????

Now, it is important to have a good visual feedback when things are "switching" because when the transistor fries one will not noticed but only via the battery stopping to charge which could take a day lost of tests.

Fausto
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 14, 2009, 09:46:39 PM
Fausto,

If you burn the switch transistors a lot, then try this add on.

The IRF510 should be a good choice in your setup. Can take
high voltage (100volt) and some 5,6Amp at best. But you can
use whatever N-Type HEXFET you have. Just make sure the
transistor can handle you voltages (including "spikes") and the
current you need when switching.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 14, 2009, 10:08:16 PM
@Groundloop,

thanks. I will try that.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 15, 2009, 05:24:58 PM
@Groundloop,

I was thinking about having that design change you proposed to another level. I want to have an equivalent to a SPDP (single pole double throw) switch and my questions is: Would this design of mine work?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: MasterPlaster on October 15, 2009, 06:07:02 PM
In practice, what is the max frequency that this opto isolator  (4N33) can handle?
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 15, 2009, 10:48:20 PM
Fausto,

I have never tried using two hexfets as in your drawing, so I guess that the only way
to find out is to try it.

MasterPlaster,

The minimum switch time for the 4N35 is 10uSec.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 17, 2009, 04:46:57 PM
for lack or better knowledge and for simplicity here is my solution for the SPDP that I need. This works well since all the parameters of the  current design are not affected and it allows to continue using what I have with just two extra diodes.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 17, 2009, 07:05:08 PM
Fausto wrote;

>Now, I know for a fact by experience and from Bedini's own words that
>you CAN NOT run an SSG with the battery that was charged by the SSG
>because it is charged with a different kind of energy, so if you switch the
>batteries long enough the overall voltages WILL go down.

Yeah, this is a real show stopper. It means that the Bedini Machine can not
use the whole energy that it stored in the back-end battery bank. There
may be ways of getting around some of this or maybe all of it.(delays,
shorting, etc), but that would require experimentation.

With other free energy devices, if the gain is about 3 times i.e. the output
= 3 or more times the input, then the device can support the inefficiency of
almost any power converter loss. But at a gain of three it is a too much to
expect from an unimproved original SGS.

---

>That's is why on the Bedini's forums at Yahoo we do the load test which is
>basically measuring how much energy goes into the "front-end" of the SSG
>(conventional energy cost) and how much energy you can TAKE OUT
>from the "charged" or "back-end" batteries using also a conventional load
>test (a lamp or resistor cross the batteries terminals).

Hey, I too am a member of the Yahoo Bedini forum. I really like they way
they approach the construction of the machine scientifically. And I respect
you for what you have previously indicated you have accomplished. But
well, I don’t buy the cold electricity or radiant energy theories. I don’t post
there because of my heretical beliefs and they do not approve of discussion
of heretical ideas to keep their discussions collegial. Which is Ok with me.

What my method is trying to do was *balance* the input and output energy
rather than trying to measure it with instrumentation and calculations. First
form a “perpetual motion machine” which does the balancing and then have
a microprocessor switch in a resistor that rapidly but shallowly discharges
the back-end battery bank. Note the discharge time and then calculate
energy = (vmax-vmin)*watt(at average volts)*amount-of-time then add
this to an ever increasing total watt-seconds figure and send this to the
host PC to be archived. Battery capacity would be the primary goal target
value, then ten times battery capacity, then hundred times it,…and so on.

I now kind of wonder though about the value of their “ten-poler” machine.
Can it really be that much different then their one-poler besides its much
lower driving impedance? It seems like they are saying; “Well here is the
truth, but as usual we think that the magic comes back when you do it at a
higher power” (as well as much more expensive) approach.

---

>We do not measure how much goes into the "back-end" battery.
>This way one can compare the input total energy against the
>outputED energy FROM the battery. In versus Out.

>Another thing that many fail to understand is that Bedini is not advocating
>his machines to be COP > 1, he is emphatically saying that the COP is IN
>the batteries.

I agree with all the above, but go somewhat further. Its difficult to get IN
exactly equal to OUT because of instrumentation errors if COP=1.

---

>interesting idea but I could not understand very well the logical distribution
>of the batteries in this scheme. Can you please describe it again? I am
>willing to carry that test. I use the term "front-end" equals the "driving"
battery that runs the SSG and "back-end" >the "charging" battery.

Hopefully you can see that the physical interconnection could be done with
one *DPDT* relay per battery for each of six batteries. To connect any
battery to a front-end SGS buss vs. the SGS back-end buss without
interference between the two busses. Then the microcontroller rule would
keep only one battery on the front-end and the rest of the others would be
in parallel back-end bank.

Logically; If the batteries charged two different ways; Some charge would
then be due to the conventional power P=E*I of the signal and some charge
would be the batteries recharging themselves due to “data” on the signal
(pulses etc.). The first power signal would spread out among batteries
behaving according to standard COE, but the second form would be
*multiplied* by the number of back-end batteries in parallel. As
representative of the total energy available to the system.

---

>Fausto.


Thanks Fausto;

---

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 17, 2009, 08:12:46 PM
@mscoffman

Oh I see now. One bus on the front-end and one bus on the back-end. Than the microcontroller will  switch the relays, as one may program, to the front and back-end so that a number of batteries would be associated with the front-end and other batteries to the back-end. One could program to always have, for example, one battery only on the front and all the other 5 batteries on the back receiving the charge. Than later switch front-end battery back to the back-end and choose another back-end battery to now go to the front-end and do that in a round-robbing fashion.

Very good. I will try that. I really like the idea and believe it or not I NEVER had done really parallel batteries on the back-end and performed the load/charge test that the Bedini forum requires us to do. Sometimes we are so smart but sometimes we are soooo dumb.  ;D

@All,

some udpates: my board is still not functioning (the one Groundloop sent me) but I am working on a new version with more switches (about 14 I think) so that I can do more experiments. It will also use PIC16F690 because I can real-time debug it using PicKit2 Express Debugger straight from the MPLAB IDE.

Groundloop is sending me his latest designed board with relays (wonderful).

And to complete the learning process, I am also en devouring myself into making a pc cooper board using my own design by myself at home (oh boy, I love the chemicals smells).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 18, 2009, 09:15:57 PM

@All,

some udpates: my board is still not functioning (the one Groundloop sent me) but I am working on a new version with more switches (about 14 I think) so that I can do more experiments. It will also use PIC16F690 because I can real-time debug it using PicKit2 Express Debugger straight from the MPLAB IDE.

Groundloop is sending me his latest designed board with relays (wonderful).

And to complete the learning process, I am also en devouring myself into making a pc cooper board using my own design by myself at home (oh boy, I love the chemicals smells).

Fausto.

Wow Fausto; that takes a lot of effort. Give up soon if you run into
problems. That used acid with disolved copper is a toxic material. Also,
plated through holes are done with a carbon powder, not something
easily accomplished at home.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 19, 2009, 12:09:06 AM
I know, but how much fun it is??? It is lots of fun I tell you. Today I got my board inked but I made a mistake of having it inverted (oh boy). NO problem, tomorrow I will redo the PCB again and finally etch it.

I already purchased a drill press from jameco (only $30 bucks) to make the drill holes. My design (actually it is really Groundloop's design I only changed the PIC and added a few more ports) is going well.

So much to learn and so much fun. I only remember having such a fun when I was a kid!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 22, 2009, 04:46:24 AM
Today I got my new board from Groundloop. THANK YOU my friend.

Beautiful board. Now I have so much to play and learn all over again.

I also found today this interesting old post http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2118.msg28507#msg28507.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 26, 2009, 12:27:54 AM
Today I finally finished my new 14 switches board. Tested and read to go.

Fausto.

ps: almost ready. Still missing 2 connectors.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on October 26, 2009, 12:37:43 AM
Fausto,

Well done! :-)

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 28, 2009, 11:50:22 AM
Today I finally finished my new 14 switches board. Tested and read to go.

Fausto.

ps: almost ready. Still missing 2 connectors.

That is a good looking board. I am impressed with your handywork.
Let us know what experiments are getting done with it.
Once you find some overunity energy - I'm very sure more will follow.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 28, 2009, 07:51:07 PM
Hi all
I did a lil experiment this morning that may be of interest.
I have a simple pulse motor setup using 2 AA nimh, a coil, and a reed.
I used a diode and a wire off each side of the drive coil to charge a separate cap, which charged to 25v. Then I used another coil, not near the rotor, a reed, diode and another cap, and the reed is pulsed from the rotor, taking from the first cap, 25v, as a source, and the second cap is at 222v. I havnt tried a 3rd stage yet, but is it possible to keep adding stages?  has anyone tried this?
I tried a 3rd AA added to the other 2 and it went above 300v, my caps are 275v, so I just did it briefly.

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 29, 2009, 01:15:02 AM
@Magluvin

thanks for sharing your experiment. It is indeed interesting. Could you provide a schematic and a picture of your setup, please?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 01:36:49 AM
Thanks. Yes I will. Im running up to my shop to get some other caps to try and I will do a YT vid. The 2nd stage seems to have higher current also compared to just a first stage bemf, maybe its just a bigger blast. Also I would think that the first stage bemf would have been higher than 25v but so beit. The rotor makes a great timing/switching for the application.
Be back in a lil bit

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 02:44:28 AM
Ok Im back with the gidgits. Im just going to clean up the setup so it is easy to understand what is what for the vid and my cam bat is on charge.
Will let you know in a few when im uploading.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 29, 2009, 03:37:45 AM
@mscoffman

I am impressed with myself too, really! I never done this kind of work before BUT hey I did a huge mistake that I found out today, I used the wrong paste for the soldering and it is very conductive which made ALL my transistor to be on the ON state all the time. I just found out while testing the remaining parts of the board trying to use the batteries again.

Oh boy what a mistake. Now I have to remove the chips and wash the whole thing with soap until all the paste is gone and hopefully make this work correctly. Lesson learned, plan, plan, plan and than plan some more. Make sure to get the ABSOLUTE correct tools for the job, no cutting corners.

And if I ever find overunity, no problem I will share right here with all!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 05:17:30 AM
Ok, I uploaded a vid on the 2 stage setup. I had a bit of reed problems and when the rotor is running it covers my voice a bit, but I think it shows what is going on. Ill do a cleaner vid tomorrow if necessary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOx4rbMtj60

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 29, 2009, 12:56:46 PM

@magluvin

I am impressed with your method. But a word to the wise. You cannot run your
capacitors at any voltage above their working voltage even briefly, without potentially
damaging and punching through the dielectric insulation. There need be no margin
above the official WVDC working voltage direct current and so the margin has to
be below the WVDC number.

@plengo

My experience in the PC board stuffing industry in silicon valley...100% removal of
soldering flux was an absolute requirement because as it ages it can cause corrosion.

Fortunately almost all componets on the board are sealed against water.
So guess what?...on the production line they wash and dried the production
boards in a standard dishwashing machine. The high temp water removes it
completely. Certain components are obviously not rated for water immersion,
dip switches, variable resistors, plastic encased relays, transformers etc,
so they leave those componets off the board and carefully solder them
in later. If you let the machine run through a cycle to clean itself first
you can do this too, using standard dishwasher crystal cleaner.

:S:MarkSCoffman





Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 02:33:18 PM
Thanks Mscoffman
One key ingredient is the diode on the drive circuit. I could reverse it and get 240v and store that in a cap, but it will be nill for any current capability. Lets say I put a 10k resistor across the cap, that 240v will end up about .5v, maybe. But having the diode in the direction I have it, Im still turning 2.5v into 25v in the cap, but the current handling is much greater. I can dump the 25v into a very low ohm coil with the second reed and get 270v, put a 10k resistor across it and get 25v and a 1k resistor and still have 5v across it. So it increases the current handling on the second stage very well and no load on the rotor drive.
I have since eliminated the bridge to a single diode like the drive circuit.
I need to get some higher current reeds and some high voltage diodes and caps to try a 3rd stage. It just may go a good bit over 1kv and maybe with some current handling.

Some may see the vid and say, why am I only getting 25v of bemf off of the drive coil when I could get 250v without the 2nd stage, but there is no current capability that way. Try it, it works. =]

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 02:42:53 PM
Honestly I cant say no additional load on the rotor drive and bat. , there is a bit, But the 2nd stage coil Im running now is .9 ohm, a big audio filter coil. Im getting 270v on the secondary output. If I used it as a drive coil, my battery would be cooking.
Ill do a vid later with the big coil.

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 29, 2009, 08:15:21 PM
@Mags,

that is amazing. It reminds a lot of "Adams Motor" when I was playing with it. Your second coil is to the exact spec of the Adams coil being around 10 ohm. I think you just found the secret from Adams motor concerning the positioning of the second reed switch for the correct moment to when pulse the second coil.

Adams claims that the second coil should be around 15 degrees from the driving coil to make it happen. I wonder if you could try that or measure the angle among your coils and reeds.

Can you make a better schematics of how this is all connected? I am willing to replicate your experiment.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 09:51:52 PM
Hey Plengo
Ill draw it up this evening.

Real quick to say,  From the pos. of the bat to the reed, reed to the coil, coil to the neg of bat.  The anode of the diode to the reed side of the coil, cathode to the cap, the other side of the cap to the other side of the coil.
The second stage is the same and it uses the first stage cap as its battery or input.
Get the first stage going as fast as possible with reed setting, the adjust the second reed for highest output, both reed to the same rotor of course.
Ill be back later with a drawing.
The first stage cap should be at about 10 times the bat when running.
In my vid I made a mistake measuring the first cap. The first and second stage caps were not common gnd. So when the full setup is running, the first cap was actually about 1v seemingly solid. Yet its enough to provide the second stage very well.
From what I see, the way I have the diode, if you reverse it in the first stage, you will get high volts to the cap. But this way, it tends to put the coil and diode/cap together when the reed closes, allowing bat to flow to the coil and cap, then releases and give about 10 times the bat volts and it pumps that cap hard. With the diode reversed to only capture bemf, it takes a bit of running to get to that high voltage into a larger cap due to virtually no current capability.
Another thing, the .9 ohm coil, about 1 ohm, on the second stage loves that first cap. If I used that coil on the first stage the battery would really suffer. It seems the lower the ohms, down to 1ohm that I have tried so far, puts out more volts than a large fine wire coil. 
Its a unique situation and I think it needs some study.

Hope that was helpful for now. I know how it is to wait for real info. =]

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 09:58:05 PM
Also make note of the polarity of the 25v, or so, on the first cap to orient your input to the second stage. The diode side of the cap should be the neg.

Magluvin

edited to correct the word "note"  =]
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 29, 2009, 10:03:38 PM
Honestly I cant say no additional load on the rotor drive and bat. , there is a bit, But the 2nd stage coil Im running now is .9 ohm, a big audio filter coil. Im getting 270v on the secondary output. If I used it as a drive coil, my battery would be cooking.
Ill do a vid later with the big coil.

Mags

Yeah, you know in the range of 250V pulses you start getting into the area of "free
electron machines", you start attracting free electrons from the environment. I was
going to suggest this for plengo to look at, eventually, if he could not get overunity
by other means, which he should still try. Ultimately, it maybe possible to step voltage
pulses up very high, with like an automobile ignition coil (30-40KV range). The problem
is downconverting these HV output pulses efficiently. I think I know how to do this.

Think about the guy who has his neon-sign transformer (110VAC->8KVAC)
and says that the name-plate shows the transformer's operation is overunuity.
This is why.

The thing is, plengo may be able to make a Tesla Switch work (26V pulses)
overunity by careful control. This can't be free electrons at that level. So
you can tell I am very hopeful that there will be some way found to do this.
And then we use the microcontroller to document it. I don't trust other peoples
measurements, but I do trust Plengo.

All these things have other invocations (device units) historically claimed
to be overunity. I don't want to mess up the thread discussing them - until
they become applicable...So lets keep first-things-first. No question this thread is
exciting as heck to me.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 29, 2009, 10:29:33 PM
Hey MS
Speaking of free electrons, I had seen a bedini circuit with a chassis or an earth gnd. I wonder if it was for that purpose.
Im looking at this in a different way than free or extra electrons added.
The way I see to charge a cap is to move the electrons from one side to the other as fast as possible. Adding more electrons to the cap than it already contains would kind of make it one sided.
In my setup, the diode setup as I have it, is reverse of what most would consider, only because it looks like the reed is just sending bat power to the cap via the reed. In a circuit drawing, showing the reed open could confuse what is happening. The reed dumps bat power into the coil/diode/cap at once, and when it releases, the coil forces its spring load into the cap on the side the doesnt have the diode, forcing a compression at the diode wall. It may not be a super high voltage spike, but its got some punch to load that cap hard.
Looking at the circuit, this may not be what you first conceive.
I was messing with it for a while trying to figure out why my output was only 10 times the input and not over 100v or so. But I think Im getting a grip on the function. I have visions. =]

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on October 30, 2009, 03:03:19 AM
I finally got my board up and running correctly. After a good soap and hot water cleaning this baby is working as designed.

Now my next step will be to setup my test again but this time having the ability to short the batteries as I wanted with plenty of more switches available for other ideas.

I will also use Groundloop's latest board that he shipped to me to try the Bedini many parallel batteries charging and switching as mscoffman proposed. So, two experiments to be running at the same time.

I will have to learn to program Groundloop's board since it has the extra MAX chip to measure the voltages.

@Magluvin

I am in the expectation of seeing how exactly is your setup connected. I have to study your video again in more details tonight.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on October 30, 2009, 11:53:19 AM
Hey MS

Speaking of free electrons, I had seen a bedini circuit with a chassis or an earth gnd. I wonder if it was for that purpose.
Im looking at this in a different way than free or extra electrons added.

Magluvin

If you think of a Wimhurst Static Electric Generator...Electrons do have to travel
to ground when you absolutely want them to dump their energy, or they can sit
on an insulating disk as static electricity and build up. If you remember, some
of the behavior of the Adams motor having the CD charged with static electricity
would match some of the characteristics of what was seen, I think.

I am convinced that Bedini and Bedini Fan also use static electricity leaking into
the circuit to add energy. Static electricity is hard to instrument and so needs to
be considered like a "dark current" flowing perhaps in a different direction in
the circuit of interest. Plengo has mentioned something like this in one of his
original posts.

It would pay to watch these circuits carefully before leaving them to run
unattended for a long time and at least suppress clutter in the experimental
area. Something like this at modest energy levels with repeatabilty
would make for small but an idle FE device.

:S:MarkSCoffman 


Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on October 30, 2009, 06:29:00 PM
Im not saying that there are not additional or a depletion of electrons ever, but Im not sure that it plays a big part in a pulse motor setup. Lets say we have a pulse motor sitting on a table, not running, now get out the E690 Electron Counter and run a check. Just kidding. =]  But if we had an E690, and it gave us a number, then we run the pulse motor, even if it gathered some external electrons, once we shut it down and let it sit, The E690 may measure more, but did those extra electrons add up to any substantial power toward our goal? Or is it just a bit of static?
Now in very high voltage setups, It is still just moving electrons from one place to another, and thats only if they want to take the path that you give them. But it is all still just circuitry. Whether its capacitance or conductance.
Lets use the E690 to measure the electrons in a capacitor, then charge the cap, will the E690 actually measure a higher tot of electrons in the cap? I would say that if the cap were floating in a vacuum and it recieved a static charge, as a whole, then something somewhere is missing some, and eventually, that something is going to want them back. So that something will take from others that are willing to give up theirs, and so on.
How many electrons could we take from the earth, send them to the moon, before the earth says it wants them back?  Bam!! Or how many absent electrons on earth would it take take to start seeing problems here on earth because of it?  Crazy aint it?

I did a test on my setup due to a brain fart that had me convinced that maybe my second stage is just pulling from the battery through both reeds and the first diode.
I ran the big dog coil, .9 ohm on a reed and bat alone, and I got over 300v, but the drain on my 2.5v was .5v, where in the full setup, the tot drop was about .04v running both coils and driving the rotor nice.  So there is some advantage to the full setup.  Also I ran the setup without the first coil and using both reeds as they were, and the results were not the same. The first diode was warm and the first stage cap had an opposite effect on whether it was large or small. In the original setup, the larger the cap, the less the reed would stick, the test setup wanted small caps to keep the reed from sticking.
So there is something interesting going on as a full setup. I was a bit worried thinking about it for a couple hours. I was starting to smell my foot before it got to my mouth.
But I feel better now.  The first coil is applying some advantage to driving the heavy second stage as compared to directly driving it from a battery.

Havnt drawn up the circuit yet, I will today.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2009, 02:59:54 AM
Tonight I finally resumed the tests on my batteries using my 14 switch board.

It took me a long time to "reprogram" the baby using a totally different approach to time management. It was getting really complicated to control the timing of switching using conventional CPU cycles/assembler language via the cycles each and every instruction takes.

So I decided to use an old tricky for time and it is working extremely well. I can precisely know when a switch will happen in relation to other switches and still control far apart switching times. Pretty interesting process.

I also had great difficulty adjusting the code to the PIC16F690 since it has different memory mapping and many different internal REGISTERS and so on, but now I got it up and running and it was worthy every penny and effort into this board. THANKS a lot to Groundloop for his help and his first board (and second, and third , I lost count) and his initial programming into the PIC16F84a.

In my first 1/2 hour running the battery goes up in voltage. Not much but definitely going up. I have been watching a few other threads and it is kind of clicking into my mind the simillarity I see from them and this experiment of mine (check this thread out: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4753-space-time-energy-absorption-pump-2.html).

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2009, 03:04:11 AM
@Magluvin

I quickly created an experiment for your experiment using my switching board instead of a rotor and unfortunately I did not have much success. I kind of expected no success since I am not using a rotor neither magnets and neither know exactly what your circuit is. I am guessing here but it would be really helpful if you could give more details about your setup including the parts numbers and measurement (if possible).

Coils are incredible difficult to work with when one does not know the value since all the frequencies and resonances will be at play here in a not trivial way.

So, if you provide more info I will be more than glad to try to replicate this.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 02, 2009, 02:59:25 PM

I also had great difficulty adjusting the code to the PIC16F690 since it has different memory mapping and many different internal REGISTERS and so on, but now I got it up and running and it was worthy every penny and effort into this board. THANKS a lot to Groundloop for his help and his first board (and second, and third , I lost count) and his initial programming into the PIC16F84a.

Fausto.

@plengo

True, This is an unusual problem that effects primarily PIC style processors.


In my first 1/2 hour running the battery goes up in voltage. Not much but definitely going up. I have been watching a few other threads and it is kind of clicking into my mind the similarity I see from them and this experiment of mine (check this thread out: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4753-space-time-energy-absorption-pump-2.html).

Fausto.


@plengo

I see a lot of commonality between a lot of different purportedly free energy
devices. But You shouldn't make the assumption that they have actually proved
anything yet, though...So, "YOUR Experiments" can make a significant difference
in how people perceive things, that is what this business is actually all about...that
is creation of societal value! Not the new patents. Example; The Tesla Switch.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2009, 05:00:49 PM
@mscoffman,

you're absolutely right. I am not making any assumptions about the veracity of my experiment. I have not convinced myself yet either. :)

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: guruji on November 04, 2009, 08:53:58 PM
Magluvin can you post the circuit please?
Thanks

Im not saying that there are not additional or a depletion of electrons ever, but Im not sure that it plays a big part in a pulse motor setup. Lets say we have a pulse motor sitting on a table, not running, now get out the E690 Electron Counter and run a check. Just kidding. =]  But if we had an E690, and it gave us a number, then we run the pulse motor, even if it gathered some external electrons, once we shut it down and let it sit, The E690 may measure more, but did those extra electrons add up to any substantial power toward our goal? Or is it just a bit of static?
Now in very high voltage setups, It is still just moving electrons from one place to another, and thats only if they want to take the path that you give them. But it is all still just circuitry. Whether its capacitance or conductance.
Lets use the E690 to measure the electrons in a capacitor, then charge the cap, will the E690 actually measure a higher tot of electrons in the cap? I would say that if the cap were floating in a vacuum and it recieved a static charge, as a whole, then something somewhere is missing some, and eventually, that something is going to want them back. So that something will take from others that are willing to give up theirs, and so on.
How many electrons could we take from the earth, send them to the moon, before the earth says it wants them back?  Bam!! Or how many absent electrons on earth would it take take to start seeing problems here on earth because of it?  Crazy aint it?

I did a test on my setup due to a brain fart that had me convinced that maybe my second stage is just pulling from the battery through both reeds and the first diode.
I ran the big dog coil, .9 ohm on a reed and bat alone, and I got over 300v, but the drain on my 2.5v was .5v, where in the full setup, the tot drop was about .04v running both coils and driving the rotor nice.  So there is some advantage to the full setup.  Also I ran the setup without the first coil and using both reeds as they were, and the results were not the same. The first diode was warm and the first stage cap had an opposite effect on whether it was large or small. In the original setup, the larger the cap, the less the reed would stick, the test setup wanted small caps to keep the reed from sticking.
So there is something interesting going on as a full setup. I was a bit worried thinking about it for a couple hours. I was starting to smell my foot before it got to my mouth.
But I feel better now.  The first coil is applying some advantage to driving the heavy second stage as compared to directly driving it from a battery.

Havnt drawn up the circuit yet, I will today.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 04, 2009, 11:58:16 PM
This is one circuit with a single diode on the second stage and one with a bridge on the second stage.
The first coil is the rotor driver and the reeds are timed off of the rotor.
It was done in MS paint so dont laugh at the art work. I had drawn the b/w one and zeropoint drew the top in question as to if they were the same.
Hope that helps.
I had just gotten some new reeds to do some new ideas. Ill post some vids soon.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 05, 2009, 03:01:17 AM
Is this your circuit?
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 05, 2009, 03:13:05 AM
Well that is so much easier. Nice job.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 05, 2009, 03:31:20 AM
What prog did you use for that?
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 05, 2009, 03:55:42 AM
Livewire from http://www.new-wave-concepts.com/pr/livewire.html.

Is what I published your the correct design?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 05, 2009, 04:10:09 AM
Yes. I had started out going for adding the rotor in and I got Twister.
Thanks


Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 05, 2009, 05:31:17 AM
Today I have again let my setup running continuously without interruptions and it is indeed charging the batteries as it runs.

It is by no means a great increase in voltage but it is there. I dont know if it is a ghost voltage or real but right now I dont really care. I want first see if it is even possible to have a voltage gain by simply pulsating the batteries to no load at all or minimal load (such as a cap).

I will let the system run more days and off course record all the experiment with pictures and videos. I have not been publishing videos yet simply because I want to have substantial evidence first to entice people to follow later.

My fist point of view of the phenomena is simply resonance at the ion level in the batteries. I am probably wrong but that is my feeling.

Fausto.

ps: having the desktop lamp on or off changes the final voltage reading of ALL my meters while the device is running. The lamp is a fluorescent 30watts lamp.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 05, 2009, 03:43:40 PM

ps: having the desktop lamp on or off changes the final voltage reading of ALL my meters while the device is running. The lamp is a fluorescent 30watts lamp.


Yes, If you have a circuit and let the two conductors (current flowing in each
direction) separate by a considerable distance. Then it just like have a magnetic
solenoid with one big single turn. Long fluorescent tube lamps, with one tube,
do exactly the same thing. It separates the conductors by a considerable distance.
There are also two ways to wire a dual switch utility circuit, where you can control
one light socket from two locations, and the simplest incorrect wiring forms one of
those forms big magnetic loops around a room. There is also capacitive coupling where the circuits separate.

And guess what? The bedini circuit with a free standing magnetic coil
will happily tap into those type of circuits and extract some magnetic energy from
operating utility circuits...I call this the Bedini cheat mode, It also allows Bedini
motors to tie together and share energy. This helps overunity, by giving
it a base, but needs to watched-out for during experiments. This is why
no sale-able product will have open magnetic circuits, unless it somehow
intends to communicate with other devices.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 11, 2009, 04:37:08 AM
Updates:

I have excellent news (or may be not). I have found finally after many configurations and trials what I think is the minimum "Cell" configuration where no energy is lost (except for the switching) and two SLA charges plus a cap.

I call it a cell simply because is my smallest configuration where I could charge anything simply by switching potentials while maintaining the similiarities with Tesla Switch project and this project.

My switching runs at around 800 or 10khz frequency. Both seams to behave the same. Other frequencies in the highs or lows seams to totally kill the effect. Both batteries charge at a rate of 100 of a volt per 15 minutes or so. The batteries are small 7 amp/h SLAs.

The cap is a pack of 4 10Uf in parallel or a 2200 uf cap. There seams to be no difference really for the size of the cap and the amount of charging that I could notice. Further testing must be made here.

The caps are charging at the rate of 100 of a volt per second and it slows down when it reaches 1.2 volts but still charging.

It could be what Groundloop mention about the bleeding from the optos to the transistor BUT changing the speed of the switching to very high or low frequencies seams to not help while logically I would think that faster frequencies would bleed more and charge the batteries faster but it does not happen. It has to be a specific range of frequencies (like a top of a Gaussian bell curve, two tops actually one for the 800 hz and another for the 10 khz) where the charging is the best.

So basically both batteries and the cap are charging by simply switching potentials.

The switching order is shown on the picture. The switch are NEVER switched in a way where the circuit is closed loop. It is always in a way to keep it open. So, SW1 and SW4 is ON while SW3 and SW2 is OFF and then I invert that.

I wish someone could replicate this.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2009, 08:57:28 AM
Just made a new vid of something I had been meaning to try.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k_bz4nZaD4

It is a whipmag style rotor with like poles facing each other, creating N and S bubbles between the mags and running it with a reed/coil.

Nothing great but its different.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 11, 2009, 04:25:38 PM
Updates:

It could be what Groundloop mention about the bleeding from the optos to the transistor BUT changing the speed of the switching to very high or low frequencies seams to not help while logically I would think that faster frequencies would bleed more and charge the batteries faster but it does not happen. It has to be a specific range of frequencies (like a top of a Gaussian bell curve, two tops actually one for the 800 hz and another for the 10 khz) where the charging is the best.

Fausto.


It seems to me that DC voltage from the opto-isolator would be equivalent
to a capacitance from the input to output of the opto, which is specified
in the spec sheet effectively as being a very small capacitance. DC voltage
would seem to me to wipe out any small capacitance.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 11, 2009, 08:04:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXbRvIqqatI

Just a short vid explaining my reed polarizing method for using alternating poles on my rotor. I know that most bedini motors dont use reeds, but I though this may be of interest.

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: allcanadian on November 12, 2009, 12:05:52 AM
@magluvin
I cannot see your video as I am at work:) but we should not underestimate the usefulness of reed switches nor contact switches. The modern electronics person would call them obsolete but they can do things modern electronics can't. I have had reed switches biased with an external magnet in in such a way that they could switch in millisecond pulses at hundreds of volts with no sparking. If properly timed in the circuit they also acted as lossless diodes with no voltage drop and can rectify an alternating current or varied DC. If the biasing and timing are perfectly tuned you cannot actually see the reed switch move as the movement is in the thousandths of an inch, as well with the small amount of motion involved they will go completely silent. Many people have commented that they were not even aware that my rotorless bedini reed circuits were even running in a perfectly quiet room. The only major drawback is that they can become disturbed if the device is moved around, but other than that I have found them superior to any electronic circuits I have built because there a basically zero losses. Imagine a switch that can last years, is silent, has no losses-no voltage drop, has no turn on/off voltage requirements, no minimum voltages, can handle AC or DC or both simultaneously and very fast rise/fall times. As always the component is only as good as the knowledge of the person operating it and people should not judge things until they fully understand them. If you pull apart a relay and use the contacts you can space the contacts down to thousandths of an inch, next glue a 1/8" neo magnet to the movable contact on the opposite side of the contact near the end. You can use 1/16th inch brass shim stock strips and solder smaller contacts to them to extend the sensitivity of the switching. In this case the length and stiffness of the brass strip can be tuned to the motor, you can have multiple switches per pass of a magnet if the contact strip length is a harmonic of the frequency of the passing magnet/rotor speed :). I have had these types of contact switches operating as far as two feet away from a bedini motor, they can be very sensitive to any changes in the magnetic fields.
Regards
AC
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 12, 2009, 12:15:18 AM
@allcanadian

well said. I totally agree !
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 12, 2009, 04:58:28 AM
a quick test today revealed that "there is no bleeding" in this experiment to the extend of providing the gain. Replacing the batteries with charged up front cap WILL NOT run the circuit in gain mode but in loss mode.

No changing frequency can either accelerate or de-accelerate the discharging rate. Caps will simply go to almost zero and stop there.

Batteries on the contrary will charge up, both of them. Now, the rate of charge is not very impressive but promising if this is scalable. I will try different voltage levels, like 100v or higher, to see if that makes the gain relatively proportional or geometrical (I wish) or exponential (I am really dreaming) or linear (that sucks).

Nonethless, this circuit seams to be behaving in a way that sounds like Bearden talking about his "dupped" copper wire where he can cut it before the current reaches the end and "close the loop" (for those that knows what I am talking about).

Another observation I must make is this: Switching only voltages and avoiding current sounds a lot like voltage and current out of phase where some call "virtual power" or "not-active power" or "reactive power". So what I am doing here is simply that with a 180 degrees absolute phase reactive power, virtually 0 power but still charging the batteries AND the cap.

Is it possible to convert this kind of "reactive power" into "real power" without forcing current to flow FROM the source??? I am forced to believe the answer to be YES and this experiment is showing that it is ( in my opinion until someone, please, show me the correct way to see this and correct me too - no pun intended ) although the power that I am having now is ridiculous but it is real.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 12, 2009, 05:56:44 AM
Well I suppose I made it sound like I had something against using reeds, sorry if it came out that way.
Really, I was fascinated by the thought of it once I had seen it done. I ordered some larger reeds on ebay last Friday, they should be here this week.
They are GE DR 113, 25 for $12 shipped. Had to give them a go for that price. They dont make them any more, he said they are about 20 years old but new and in excellent condition. These are huge, 2.5 in glass tube. I have to research to try and find data on them.  I cant say they are going to be great or anything yet, But I will have fun finding out.
Anyway, thanks for your info on your experience with them AC, all great ideas to absorb.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 12, 2009, 06:45:48 PM
@Magluvin

hey my friend. No offence from me at all. I liked what alcadian said about the reeds and what you found too. Good work my friend.

Can you share the link to Ebay to those huge reed switches you mention?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 12, 2009, 07:04:14 PM



@magluvin
I cannot see your video as I am at work:) but we should not underestimate the usefulness of reed switches nor contact switches. The modern electronics person would call them obsolete but they can do things modern electronics can't. I have had reed switches biased with an external magnet in in such a way that they could switch in millisecond pulses at hundreds of volts with no sparking. If properly timed in the circuit they also acted as lossless diodes with no voltage drop and can rectify an alternating current or varied DC. If the biasing and timing are perfectly tuned you cannot actually see the reed switch move as the movement is in the thousandths of an inch, as well with the small amount of motion involved they will go completely silent. Many people have commented that they were not even aware that my rotorless bedini reed circuits were even running in a perfectly quiet room. The only major drawback is that they can become disturbed if the device is moved around, but other than that I have found them superior to any electronic circuits I have built because there a basically zero losses. Imagine a switch that can last years, is silent, has no losses-no voltage drop, has no turn on/off voltage requirements, no minimum voltages, can handle AC or DC or both simultaneously and very fast rise/fall times. As always the component is only as good as the knowledge of the person operating it and people should not judge things until they fully understand them. If you pull apart a relay and use the contacts you can space the contacts down to thousandths of an inch, next glue a 1/8" neo magnet to the movable contact on the opposite side of the contact near the end. You can use 1/16th inch brass shim stock strips and solder smaller contacts to them to extend the sensitivity of the switching. In this case the length and stiffness of the brass strip can be tuned to the motor, you can have multiple switches per pass of a magnet if the contact strip length is a harmonic of the frequency of the passing magnet/rotor speed :). I have had these types of contact switches operating as far as two feet away from a bedini motor, they can be very sensitive to any changes in the magnetic fields.
Regards
AC


@all

As I think I said previously reed relays are almost perfect substitue for switches
in overunity devices. Because of low leakage and complete isolation. Especially the
5Volt 600ohm coil reed relay with 1 amp maximum current switch current which are
a very inexpensive devices.

The bad part is;

a) there is a maximum DC current that the switch contacts can support.
b) The total transisition between conductance and non-conductance
     has a tendancy to create arcs when switching. Really excessive current
     can cause switch contacts to weld. Arc's could be consider contact
     combustion.
c) There is current dissipation when coil is activated... please
     understand "Latching Relays" (see wikipedia)
d) There is a maximum design number of switching events so 60Hz is about
    the maximum reed relays recommended.
e) Relays need a conditioning current...signal switching will not always
    will not always occur cleanly at too low current level.

Note; that opto switches also dissipate power to activate their leds.
But have more or less unlimited bandwidth. Note there are commericial
solid state relays called SSR's that work the same way...there are a large variety
of switches and opto device embedded in them. (many use SCR's and Triacs
that require control of (zero crossing) AC signal voltages to turn off.

I am interested in Plengo's tendancy to switch current at high speeds...and his circuit
can do so cleanly.

:S:MarkSCoffman
 
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 12, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
@Plengo

Your instruments look professonal.

I am impressed with what you are showing. I agree that ionic resonance in
the batteries may play a role in the excess energy production. I wonder if
different battery capacities have different resonant frequencies?

Any chance you can create a microcontroller based synthetic load resister (led lamp)
to dissipate excess produced energy by turning on and off (slow PWM). Note that
maximum system energy production may not occur if one waits for the batteries to
charge all the way up to maximum. I would like to see proof of eventual overunity
in this core circuit, with produced energy greater than storage battery capacity.

Magluvin will also eventually need to see how this is done.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 12, 2009, 08:40:33 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320445448645&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This is the link to the reeds I bought, I didnt think I would be able to copy it being an already sold item. But the link still works without me being logged in to my acct.
They have what seems to be very heavy leads, solder type.  Current handling is probably good, my concern will be switching times due to size, we will see. For me, at the price and quantity, its worth the shot.

I have an idea about the bemf pulses. Would you say that those are of high freq. ?  Does BEMF flow on the skin of the coils wire? Skin effect?
I have an inductor coil that I had shown on my vids. Its about 300 turns 0.9 ohms and I believe 18awg wire. What I have in mind is to recreate that coil using multiple fine wires, the number of which would equal or come close to equal to the 18awg, to increase skin surface in hopes of increasing the bemf's potential.  I think that trying to get the most out of back emf is crucial to efficiency. 
Then do test runs to see if there is a difference.

This is one of my reasons for the larger reeds is to handle the load of this test. I could recreate my lil green coil i have been using, but it is 26 awg and the wire would need to be very fine to get a good number of conductors to equal the one.
Hope that makes sense. =]

Thank guys

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on November 12, 2009, 09:39:45 PM
Fausto,

Here is my newest switch.

http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/fastswitch.rar

Alex.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 13, 2009, 02:52:55 AM
@Groundloop

That is so nice. So, you are charging the battery using the BEMF from pulsating the coils? I guess I can replicate that pretty fast. Can you post a picture of the coils?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 13, 2009, 05:36:04 AM
I have EXCELLENT NEWS:

My next step was logically to try to scale this thing up. So I did. On the schematic below you can see I added a few more switches. The frequency now is about 1 mhz.

The sequence of switching goes like this:
SW12 and SW11 are ON. SW4, SW8 and SW9 are OFF. Then I turn ON SW3 and OFF and right after turn ON SW4 and OFF. I do that sequence for about 10 seconds or less, until cap reaches the voltage of both batteries added up (I know strange).

Then I momentarily dump the capacitor into battery B1, for that I turn OFF SW3 and SW4 and turn ON SW8 and SW9 for about 1 second. Voltage of the cap goes to the same voltage of B1 and than I turn OFF SW8 and SW9. Now I go back to to the beginning and I repeat the process to infinitum.

The cap WILL charge to the voltage of both batteries added up, and that is FREE. Strangely enough battery B2 will also charge while the process happens.

Important to understand the SW3 and SW4 are never ON together so there is NEVER a closed loop
except when dumping the cap into B1.

My next step will be using a series of batteries in series and see what happens. Since there is never a current flowing (except when dumping the cap into the battery) it will scale to very high voltages pretty well. The voltage increase is about 10th of a volt per 10 minutes in each battery. I would say pretty fast too.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on November 13, 2009, 07:31:25 AM
Fausto,

Very nice setup with your switch. Maybe we need to use really high
voltage transistors to scale this up?

My new switch has not been tested yet on a "real" toroid coil. I will post
data and images on my new coil when it is done in a week or two. I'm
waiting (for the snail mail) for copper wire and a new toroid core.

Alex.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: tinu on November 13, 2009, 11:29:07 AM
Fausto,

Many thanks for running these experiments and for posting the results, which looks very intriguing to me.

May I suggest to look again at the possible energy getting in from the switching elements, by either: a) replacing batteries with some capacitors (initially discharged) and do voltage checks on all caps during switching and/or b) replacing batteries with variable resistors of relatively large values so in case C1 is charged by bleedings from optos/switching elements, by properly adjusting Rvars as to maintain VC1 approximately constant and by knowing on-off times, the small power input from optos (if it exists) could be properly estimated?

I apologize if the above were already suggested and/or conducted; my only excuse is that I didn’t have enough time to read the whole thread.

Many thanks again,
Tinu
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 13, 2009, 03:12:39 PM
@tinu

thanks for the comment. I have done the test using only caps instead of batteries for that exact point. No, caps will not work and the bleeding if any is meaningless to the point that voltage meters will only show the caps being discharged so that in less than 5 seconds the whole thing will simply stop.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 13, 2009, 04:51:02 PM
Fausto,

Many thanks for running these experiments and for posting the results, which looks very intriguing to me.

May I suggest to look again at the possible energy getting in from the switching elements, by either: a) replacing batteries with some capacitors (initially discharged) and do voltage checks on all caps during switching and/or b) replacing batteries with variable resistors of relatively large values so in case C1 is charged by bleedings from optos/switching elements, by properly adjusting Rvars as to maintain VC1 approximately constant and by knowing on-off times, the small power input from optos (if it exists) could be properly estimated?

I apologize if the above were already suggested and/or conducted; my only excuse is that I didn’t have enough time to read the whole thread.

Many thanks again,
Tinu

It should be possible to measure any DC coupling between the
opto and the transistor. This would be so negative for the
opto component, I find it difficult to believe it would be designed
that way. You know, we don't want that DC bias and I'll bet
others don't either.

There are opto components that use photovoltaic cells in series
to produce some voltage from their leds. Field effect transistor
like to have their gates biased slightly above Vsource, and I guess
you could use this. As I have said there are all sorts of opto
component functionality.

Bets are off if you can find a magazine article describing use of a standard
opto-isolator this way.


:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 13, 2009, 04:57:07 PM
I have EXCELLENT NEWS:

My next step was logically to try to scale this thing up. So I did. On the schematic below you can see I added a few more switches. The frequency now is about 1 mhz.

The sequence of switching goes like this:
SW12 and SW11 are ON. SW4, SW8 and SW9 are OFF. Then I turn ON SW3 and OFF and right after turn ON SW4 and OFF. I do that sequence for about 10 seconds or less, until cap reaches the voltage of both batteries added up (I know strange).

Then I momentarily dump the capacitor into battery B1, for that I turn OFF SW3 and SW4 and turn ON SW8 and SW9 for about 1 second. Voltage of the cap goes to the same voltage of B1 and than I turn OFF SW8 and SW9. Now I go back to to the beginning and I repeat the process to infinitum.

The cap WILL charge to the voltage of both batteries added up, and that is FREE. Strangely enough battery B2 will also charge while the process happens.

Important to understand the SW3 and SW4 are never ON together so there is NEVER a closed loop
except when dumping the cap into B1.

My next step will be using a series of batteries in series and see what happens. Since there is never a current flowing (except when dumping the cap into the battery) it will scale to very high voltages pretty well. The voltage increase is about 10th of a volt per 10 minutes in each battery. I would say pretty fast too.

Fausto.

Now we are getting somewhere!

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 14, 2009, 09:41:59 PM
....
The cap WILL charge to the voltage of both batteries added up, and that is FREE. Strangely enough battery B2 will also charge while the process happens.
....
 Since there is never a current flowing (except when dumping the cap into the battery) it will scale to very high voltages pretty well. The voltage increase is about 10th of a volt per 10 minutes in each battery. I would say pretty fast too.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

Would like to understand why you think the charge up of the capacitor to the batteries' voltage level is FREE? And there is no current flowing into the cap when it is charging?

I mean the well known exponential curve for the voltage -time function when charging up any capacitor:
assuming zero voltage in a cap, the moment you switch say 12V across this cap the current is at the maximum, dictated only by the residual resistance of the battery inner and any other circuit resistance in series, including the ESR of the cap.
Then this maximum peak current (which can even be as high as some Amper in case of some thousand microFarad cap) will exponentially decrease as the voltage in the cap increases.  And I think the charging current comes from the batteries.  IT is ok that in your circuit the cap starts charging up from zero voltage only at the first switch-on then the voltage varies between 12V and 24V (neglecting the diodes forward voltage drop) but to get the 24V it needs current. 

I know Thomas Bearden referred to some article on the lossless charge-up of capacitors in small voltage steps but would it mean that no energy is taken from a source when you load the voltage source by an initially empty capacitor for very small but consecutive time durations??

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 15, 2009, 01:31:22 AM
@Gyula

Thanks for the comments.

You're correct. I should have qualified a little bit more my statements before. What I mean by FREE is the fact the both the batteries are charging plus the cap, so it is free because it is not being deducted from the batteries.

When I say no current I really mean also the fact that the circuit is a "open-loop" circuit. I never close the loop to allow the "regular" current to charge the cap. It must be a different process to explain the current that goes to the cap since it is not "circulating" via the batteries in a known fashion (since the batteries are not discharging).

I have a new circuit where I hell simplified the previous version and all the batteries charge up while running. No caps, no coils, nothing just the batteries and the switches from my optos. I also show the sequence of the events so all can replicate.

I guess the short duration of pulses from the batteries is causing somehow the batteries to charge.

Sequence is:
turn SW11 ON
turn SW12 ON
turn SW4 ON

turn SW4 OFF
turn SW12 OFF
turn SW11 OFF

turn SW9 ON
wait for 500 ms
turn SW9 OFF

repeat for ever.

The diodes in the diagram represents how the switches are in reality.

And believe me, I tried all sort of combinations and timings and the way I show on the sequence of event was the only one that work so far. Very strange. On the scope it shows as a 100 volts sharp pulse at every 1 seconds or so. Probes accross switch SW9.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 15, 2009, 12:06:49 PM
Hi Fausto,

Thank you for all the information. You surely have a interesting circuit indeed, especially this last one in which you left out the capacitor.

 I think one possible explanation why the batteries charge up slowly (and not discharging) is that I assume there is some nanosecond common ON time for the switches, this may come from both the PIC outputs and the signal propagation delay for the optos,  so I mean the two batteries are short circuited for a few nanoseconds even if you did not design it that way.

And considering the high repetition rate of some hundred kHz or the 1Mhz you probably still use, this may be an equivalent treatment for your batteries like a desulfation circuit gives to the batteries.  This could explain the small voltage increase.  And even if there is no any nanosecond overlap at all, maybe the charge can go through the switches' output capacitance, making a route for the charging current.
I understand if you do not think my explanation is correct.  :)

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 15, 2009, 05:05:32 PM
@gyulasun

I have been playing with those "nanosecond" switching times and all sort of combinations that leads to your explanation. Certainly I can see when the switching of all combined switches (via their ON state or combination of capacitance and so on) is ON at the same time, I have a huge current going through and off course, discharging the battery, BUT, that is not what I am doing. I am carefully choosing the switching sequence and timing that avoids exactly that.

I can measure at any point in time only a .15 ma (point 15 of a mili-amp) during the pulse where the circuit is absolutely in a open loop (no closed loop in any form or shape, via capacitance, inductance or whatever). That has been my biggest difficulty in achieving that and it is not easy, but once I get that sweet spot where there is not current anywhere flowing only this pulse thats when the batteries start charging.

I think I am correct in stating that based on the scope shots, a 1 miliamp meter in series with the battery and the programming sequence that is very absolute. I am lead to start believing that a single wire is being used as a coil on the OFF state, not on the ON but on the off. That's the moment where the magic happens and the 100v pulse shows up and charges the battery.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 15, 2009, 07:19:23 PM
@plengo

Now that you have apparent overunity electrical energy showing up, don't you think it's
time to actually measure excess energy production? This only needs to be approximate
since it should (will) eventually exceed system battery capacity. While it's meaningless
as a technical proof of overunity, it will represent a unique internet first, as advertising
for beginners, and as confirmation for us more mature scientific types.

People are always saying; "We came to web site to find a free energy device to
construct, but all we find are a lot of nice non-provable posts, and we looked but
haven't found one yet that we trust". It would be very nice to be able to say;
"Look here...; and do it this way;"

:S:MarkSCoffman

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 15, 2009, 09:10:37 PM
@mscoffman

oh boy, easier said than done. I wish my device here is showing overunity. I think it is so far just showing a strange behavior that I have seen many time when testing Bedini machines. Batteries are a funny beast.

That being said, yes, I want to measure things in a way that we can really see how effective this thing is. I guess I will need lots of help on this area, since measuring to this level is never easy neither is my expertise although I am willing to learn.

So far what I am trying to do is find the "reason" why this strange phenomena is present and how can I isolate to its fundamental component and logic. I see so far two things in my experiments:

1) short, very ultra short pulses (short circuiting) the battery which will cause a high voltage spike even though it is on a one wire "coil" with no turns causing the BEMF to appear. That kind of makes sense when one look at the 100, 200 even 300 volt spikes being present at the moment the switch is OPENED, cutting the flow of current.  My last diagram shows just that experiment and it is working pretty well. Very slowly it is charging the battery but it is.

2) Switching the positive pole of the cap (my previous diagram) to the positive and negative of the battery B1 charging the cap to a higher voltage than it is available on the system.

Those two things are very easy to dismiss as two instances of almost the same thing. On the item 1 I have designed the switching in such a way that there is NO current flowing at any time although it might be some current flowing because of the nature of the transistor being used (although in this case probably in the nano-amps) but for pratical applications it seams to not affect the source of the energy, in this case the batteries. Neither seams to be visible in my scope. I do see during the pulse a momentarily current in the range of tenths of a mili-amp only at the pulse when the switch is OPENED which makes no sense to me.

I would think that would be some current flow during the "charging" period of the "one wire-no-turn coil" but I only see the discharge. I could be wrong. I hope to be able to really measure this and proof that one point. I think that it is what is happening because I can only make that happen when I have all switches OPENED and closing one of the switches and OPENING again and bum, there comes the pulse (while the remaining switches were all OPENED).

On point 2 I do see a current flowing from the battery B1 into the cap but that would not explain (at least for my limited knowledge) why the cap would charge to a higher voltage than the available on the system. It sounds like the item 1 but this time with some current, although here I also avoid the system to close loop.

I am very puzzled by this design. I need more ideas in how to isolate the fundamentals and create a simple test case for it.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 15, 2009, 11:47:18 PM
Hi Fausto,

Thanks again.  Would you tell if your optos drive a power transistor and this latter does the actual switching? if yes what is their type?  sorry for not fully in your setup. maybe a drawing of one single switching stage with its opto drive (no need for the PIC) would clarify it for me, this way I might be better  evaluating your circuit.

Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 15, 2009, 11:57:22 PM
@gyulasun

no problem. Here they are. The LED1 goes to the output of the PIC and opto pin 2 goes to ground. Whenever you see a diode on my previous simplified picture I meant the transitor Collector-Emitor junction. So I have to always keep in mind where the collector should be connected to when I am connecting the batteries and so on.

The whole board is powered by a power source at 5v.

And for completion here it goes a sniped of the code that loops for ever:

Start:

bsf SW11              ; turn ON
bsf SW12              ; turn ON
bsf SW4                ; turn ON
bcf SW4                ; turn OFF
call delay100mS    ; delay for about 100 mili-seconds
bcf SW12              ; turn OFF
call delay500uS     ; delay for about 500 micro-seconds
bcf SW11              ; turn OFF
call delay100mS    ; delay for about 100 mili-seconds
bsf SW9                ; turn ON
call delay500uS     ; delay for about 500 micro-seconds 
bcf SW9                ; turn OFF

goto Start
-----------------------------------


note: Transistor are the switches.
note2: http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tbfrenrg.htm

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mikestorm on November 16, 2009, 11:56:10 AM
Hi All
i'm tring to replicate the tricoiler bedini based
i have written a post in this same area
can someone help me?

thanks to all
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 17, 2009, 01:33:51 AM
Some photos of the voltage across the battery terminals. It is 0.05 volts/div. Center screen is 0 volts.

Photo 1 show this very high spike negative pulse. I think it is about 100v spike.
Photo 2 show the differential of a spike going up (using energy from the battery) and spike going down (I think energy going back to the battery). It seams that the spike going down is bigger than the one going up (which should match the fact that the battery is charging).
Photo 3 the same as photo 2 just in a different time frame.
Photo 4 the same as photo 2.
Photo 5 is a zoom of the switching ON and OFF when no spikes are happening.

All photos were taken with the camera on a stand and later I choose frames from the video taken and assembled the sequence of consecutive pictures into one photo. I used Photoshop for changing the clarity of the photos and nothing else. No manipulation of any kind. I also could have done the same with a gif assembler and have a moving picture for all but still photos are better.

I also had to increase the scope's beam intensity so that the camera would pick up the waves better so that I could put them together in photoshop.

Also current is fluctuating between 10 uAmp to 110uAmp. Circuit used is the last photo. I am not switching all of the transistor showed, only the ones presented on the code snipet. Cap C1 will be fluctuating from 44.1 volts to 44.5 volts and cycle again. Total system voltage is about 55.67 volts and increasing an average of 0.001 volts per 15 minutes or so.

Speed of PIC is set to 20 mhz but I am not really sure how fast it is repeating the code below. Strange by the scope shots is the non deterministic (at least at first) of the high pulses since the code is always the same for the whole process.

---------------------------
Start:

bsf SW11           ; turn ON
bsf SW12           ; turn ON

call delay100mS ; delay for 100 mili-seconds
bcf SW12           ; turn OFF
call delay500uS  ; delay for 500 micro-seconds
bcf SW11           ; turn OFF
call delay100mS ; delay for 100 mili-seconds

bsf SW9             ; Turn ON and leave it ON forever
call delay500uS  ; delay for 500 micro-seconds

goto Start          ; repeat forever
---------------------------------------
Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 17, 2009, 04:28:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkxRNhPG2sE

Got my reeds in. They are bigger in person. Just made a shot vid to show them. Ill be trying them later.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Groundloop on November 17, 2009, 09:50:14 AM
Fausto,

What is the timebase of your scope shots?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 17, 2009, 02:03:35 PM
Fausto,

A similar question: in your picture # 1   (1.jpg) the vertical scale is also
0.05V/DIV?
If you say it is about a 100V pulse, then the negative peak of that pulse is way down the scale, right? 

Also, in your schematics there is a 61.5V written between D1 and B2, where is that voltage? or it is irrevelant.

thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 17, 2009, 02:15:49 PM
@Groundloop

the horizontal was 0.01 seconds. Vertical was 0.05 volts / div. The last scope shot was .5 pico-seconds.

@gyulasun

the voltage on the diagram is the total of 5 12.5 volts batteries at an average of 12.3 volts each battery. In reality my circuit is running at 55.7 volts. So my batteries are pretty much depleted.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 17, 2009, 09:27:08 PM
@all

ops i just notice I mistyped 100v instead of 10volts spike on previous post. It is 10 volts spike NOT 100 volts. Thanks to gyulasun to point that out.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 18, 2009, 08:26:21 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7QIpfSX_4Q

A vid of the reed in action. I am running 2 of the big coils in parallel with my regular green one. 0.4 ohm total load, and the 4 AA are at 5.13v running.

It was just some of my first runs testing the reeds. I like them.

Next tests will be the bifi comparisons, they are 2 ohm each

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 18, 2009, 10:13:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeqXJAcLw8c
As last vid but got it going faster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ0LYpMH41E
Added a larger polarizing mag and yet she runs even faster. Sick!!

I know top speed is not a goal here, but for now its fun. =]

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on November 18, 2009, 12:57:30 PM

One experimentation idea is to use an "Audio Transformer" line-to-load transformer
to step up voltage pulses for charging batteries. It would allow one to have a
much higher voltage charge pulse without needing dozens of batteries to generate
the pulses via capacitors. I keep remembering an audio transformer with a lot of
closely spaced secondary taps, to kind of trim the overall volume of an independent
loudspeaker.

An audio transformer; because the frequency response would be in the 100Hz -> 30KHz
range, which it what we are talking about here, without needing a RF pulse transformer
with specialized core materials.

:S:MarkSCoffman
 
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 19, 2009, 01:54:48 AM
@Magluvin

beautiful work. She is spinning indeed. You are totally doing Adams motor with success, I am totally impressed. Today I went to ebay and tried to buy some big reed switches too. I can barely wait to replicate your work.

How much voltage are you using to run your setup? And is this diagram still what you have? What are the magnets you are using?

Pretty cat too. I have 2 myself.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 19, 2009, 03:14:41 AM
Thanks Plengo
In the last 3 vids, I am only using 1 reed here to activate the 3 coils in parallel then capturing the bemf only from the coils. The lil green coil doesnt need to be there. The 2 larger coils in parallel are doing all the work. They are 0.9 ohm each and the green is 7 ohm.
I am running 4 AA nimh in series. They put out about 5.2v to 5.3v at rest after settling from full charge. It runs quite well on 1 AA also. The small reeds were an obstacle for me before. They couldnt take what I wanted them to.
In the circuits you show above, there was definitely an offset to when the reeds were pulsing, those lil reeds could never handle these coils alone.

The mags I am using are 1/2 x 1/8 diametric disks N42  KJmagnetics. 16 of them.
I am making a new platform for all this to set on tonight. The vid setup was just with what I had around to try things before settling on the way I want things.  But now it all seems worth setting up nicer and more permanent for working on. It will have more room to work and set up more coils and reeds for going forward with the previous circuits above. And it will clearly show what is going on better for vids.
The bemf capture in this setup has impressive output. I would say enough to run another separate pulse motor setup.
I was thinking of a transformer to change the ratio of bemf voltage/current, but just applying caps and load seems to do the same without transformer inefficiency. I have to use a heat sink on the bemf diode, the lil schotky died on me due to too much current into the 5 ohm 5 watt resistor.  Unbelievably, of course.
The speed of the switching improves things here also. Getting that rotor speed really helps shorten those pulses and bemf output enhanced. Something I just could not get with smaller reeds.

Magluvin

And Bebe helps hold the meter for me. =]
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 20, 2009, 12:31:04 AM
Hi Fausto,

According to your PIC control codes (from your Reply #140, previous page) switches 11 and 12 are turned on at the same time, right?  Can you tell, how long this simultaneous switch-on for these two switches lasts?  (Maybe about 27-28 millisecond?, guessing from your scope pictures.)

(Your opto switch has a rise and fall time of 7-7 us (microsecond), from its datasheet, just for the knowing, no problem seems with this here. And also the MJE3055 has a fT=2MHz (a frequency where its Beta gets reduced to unity.)

So returning to my first question of the common on-time for Q11 and Q12 switches, whenever this common switch-on happens, then the battery gets short-circuited by these switches via the coil L1, right?
And assuming your measured current of between 10uA to 110uA means an average current, there must be much bigger peak currents flowing because the 55.7V battery pack is shorted by Q11 and Q12.  Maybe you have checked this already with a series small value (0.1-0.5 Ohm) resistor's voltage drop, observed by the scope?

One more thing on the switch: the MJE3055 has about a 60V collector-emitter breakdown voltage limit, this means  leakage current near the 55.7V battery voltage may start increasing, hence some current may flow through in the off state too, thinking on the undriven but included Q3, Q4 and Q8 too.

Finally I would like to know how you mean the 0.5 pico second on the last scope shot? (quoted in bold by me below)    Maybe a misprint?

@Groundloop

the horizontal was 0.01 seconds. Vertical was 0.05 volts / div. The last scope shot was .5 pico-seconds.


Also, it is ok you wrote it is a 10V pulse instead of the 100V but I still wonder if I see the total amplitude of the negative pulse in your first scope shot or simply the very bottom of the peak amplitude is not shown?
I ask this because at 0.05V/DIV range setting I can see a max of 3.5 vertical divisons for the spike which would give about 1.75V, not 10V. Is this ok?

This circuit behaves strange for sure, I wonder if the battery voltage kept increasing steadily, after your report in Reply #140?

Regards, Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 20, 2009, 08:00:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUoKzD6acB4

A vid of my improved setup running 3 coils in parallel, 0.14 ohms.

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 20, 2009, 03:15:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7PR8JEVp7A

This is a second vid of the improved setup, made some reed adjustments by adding another magnet and she is running fastest ever. plus more bemf output.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 20, 2009, 06:11:04 PM
Hi Mags

Very good setup and test! 

Can you somehow estimate your input current from the batteries so that you could figure out the input power, now that you know the output.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2009, 10:09:50 PM
@Magluvin

I am totally impressed with that last setup. Running really fast and putting out 1.3 Watts? Uauuuuu.

May be you can make it run itself!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2009, 06:30:36 PM
Hi Fausto,

According to your PIC control codes (from your Reply #140, previous page) switches 11 and 12 are turned on at the same time, right?  Can you tell, how long this simultaneous switch-on for these two switches lasts?  (Maybe about 27-28 millisecond?, guessing from your scope pictures.)

(Your opto switch has a rise and fall time of 7-7 us (microsecond), from its datasheet, just for the knowing, no problem seems with this here. And also the MJE3055 has a fT=2MHz (a frequency where its Beta gets reduced to unity.)

So returning to my first question of the common on-time for Q11 and Q12 switches, whenever this common switch-on happens, then the battery gets short-circuited by these switches via the coil L1, right?
And assuming your measured current of between 10uA to 110uA means an average current, there must be much bigger peak currents flowing because the 55.7V battery pack is shorted by Q11 and Q12.  Maybe you have checked this already with a series small value (0.1-0.5 Ohm) resistor's voltage drop, observed by the scope?

One more thing on the switch: the MJE3055 has about a 60V collector-emitter breakdown voltage limit, this means  leakage current near the 55.7V battery voltage may start increasing, hence some current may flow through in the off state too, thinking on the undriven but included Q3, Q4 and Q8 too.

Finally I would like to know how you mean the 0.5 pico second on the last scope shot? (quoted in bold by me below)    Maybe a misprint?

Also, it is ok you wrote it is a 10V pulse instead of the 100V but I still wonder if I see the total amplitude of the negative pulse in your first scope shot or simply the very bottom of the peak amplitude is not shown?
I ask this because at 0.05V/DIV range setting I can see a max of 3.5 vertical divisons for the spike which would give about 1.75V, not 10V. Is this ok?

This circuit behaves strange for sure, I wonder if the battery voltage kept increasing steadily, after your report in Reply #140?

Regards, Gyula

Sorry the delay to answer you. The voltage peak is off the screen on the scope and it is around 8v. I put the scope on 5v div and it goes almost to 2 divs.

The time division is actually uT (micro) not pico. Sorry again for my bad science measurements. I know that because the nob of the scope (off course).

I just found out that my Q11 is cooked and it is always shorted. I dont know for how long has been like that , so I guess all my measurements are contaminated.

I let the system run for 5 days untouched and the battery voltage goes up above the initial charge and than goes down below the initial voltage and than it goes up again and the whole cycle repeats. Very strange indeed but I dont know when the Q11 cooked.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 21, 2009, 06:42:49 PM
Hi Fausto,

Ok, thanks for your answer, I understand and keep up good work!

Rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 21, 2009, 08:06:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VRtohiKNns

New vid using Watt's UP meter to show power being used on my motor setup.

By the way, I really like what you guys are working on here also. Very cool stuff.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 21, 2009, 09:28:16 PM
Sorry guys, the readings in the last vid were inaccurate. I just checked and the Watt's UP meter is only accurate above 4v. Found I had mixxed up batteries and they were not all fully charged. Will do new vid in a lil while.
Ill have more light also, YT processing darkens it quite a bit. My camera replayed the vid great.

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 22, 2009, 12:29:54 AM
Well, with my latest stupid failure in the hardware and not noticing I am frustrated and a little bit ashamed. How could I miss that? and worse, misinform everyone on it. Oh well, I guess it happens sometimes.

So, with my dear frustration and never ending desire to understand still what I have found since the beginning of this thread I started looking for that "cell" that could explain the arise in voltage on the batteries. I think I found something even more interesting and simpler than before and this time the transistor is NOT cooked.

It is as simple as an AV plug. Current is about 6 micro-amp. Voltage is increasing at about 0.001volt per minute on B2 and 0.001volt per 10 minutes on B1 . B1 is at 12.22 volts while B2 is at 10.57 (discharged).

Frequency is at the maximum my PIC can deliver for this board (I think around 20 mhz but I doubt it is that fast, most probably at about 1 mhz).

Switching is simply done by turning Q10 ON and OFF one instruction after the other with no delays anywhere.

I will let it run for a few days and than replace those batteries with other ones to confirm the effect.

This is so simple that one can create a simple oscilator to turn ON and OFF a transistor. No need for PIC controllers. An AV plug, unbelievable.



Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 22, 2009, 04:35:22 AM
I promised to let the previous system running for a few days BUT I had another great idea. Why not let B1 not only help B2 get charged but also let B2 help B1 get charged. So......, here it goes.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: gyulasun on November 22, 2009, 02:25:09 PM

... and not noticing I am frustrated and a little bit ashamed. How could I miss that? and worse, misinform everyone on it. Oh well, I guess it happens sometimes.


Dear Fausto,

To err is human and a person who never makes mistakes is who never does anything. 

Re on you latest circuit: simple and interesting, and please let it run for a longer periode of time to get meaningful observations.

My opinion is that it is the non-linear chemical reactions happening inside the batteries that manifest as if extra energy were created, unfortunately.
And surely such pulsed currents can induce the reactions by their sudden appearance and disapperance (i.e. current switch-on and -off), Bedini always said overunity is in the batteries, not in his circuits charging them.

In your modified schematic above, I cannot see the 10uH coil, it is included in the working circuit, right?

As a first step with this AV plug circuit, it would seem more reasonable first not to make it a closed loop yet, I think one step at a time here, I believe.
But you are your own master of course.  :D ;)

Thanks / ciao
Gyula
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 22, 2009, 11:30:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaDjlsXvioQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-XQjc1jUw4
New Watt's UP vid and a continuing vid due to time cutoff
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 23, 2009, 01:32:34 AM
My opinion is that it is the non-linear chemical reactions happening inside the batteries that manifest as if extra energy were created, unfortunately.
And surely such pulsed currents can induce the reactions by their sudden appearance and disapperance (i.e. current switch-on and -off), Bedini always said overunity is in the batteries, not in his circuits charging them.

I totally agree with you on that one. I guess this weekend my test were all failures, even this last one I screw up when measuring and shorted the batteries changing the whole thing. Now I have to wait for them to rest their voltage and start again and that can take a whole day.

One thing that I am learning about pulsating batteries is that they tend to charge up pretty fast with those pulses but somehow later it seams that the energy they "create" from within is very soon "evaporated" out making the voltage lower again as if there was never a gain. Very interesting. That may explain one point that Bedini keep saying that just "Radiant Energy" will dry up the batteries so it is necessary to have some small current going into it during the charging.

Since I am using in the micro amps range I can conclude that small currents like this does not help the battery to "absorb" that extra energy that the chemicals create when they are "shaken".

If the Tesla battery switch is true I wonder how resonance plays a role here and how one can find that resonance. Another thing that come to me as an intuition about how the battery works is that I tend to see a battery as a coil and a capacitor (LC) in resonance all the time, therefore lots of current running from within and either we are taking the battery out of resonance and using its energy or we are putting out of resonance to the other degree level when we are charging the battery.

That is how I tend to see this effects since all I am doing is really pulsating the system, no current really and may be sometimes it hits the battery to the right time where the "out of tunning" or the internal LC goes to the right side of the degree of resonance (95 or 85 degrees if you understand my concepts being 90 degree being perfect resonance and therefore maximum current).

I am still not satisfied with my experiments since they all work at a certain point and than reverses. I am still looking to understand how those batteries can charge up.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 23, 2009, 01:35:41 AM
@Magluvin

man those videos are great. Check these links out:

http://www.totallyamped.net/adams/
http://www.aethmogen.com/wri/radams/magnetis/magnet1.shtml

They are an excellent resource when I was playing with the Adams motor and Dr. Adam said his motors could achieve copious amounts of energy.

One different thing you are doing is the coils without cores. That's like a mixture of Window Motor (Bedini) and Adams. Amazing.

I just bought some 2 1/2" reeds from Ebay and soon I will be able to start playing with your design.  If you know where I could buy those coils ready make would be great.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 23, 2009, 07:54:28 AM
Thanks Fausto
Those were great links.
Here is an ebay link to some coils
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-INTER-TECHNIK-3-9MH-INDUCTORS-12-GA-AIR-CORE_W0QQitemZ120397289548QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item1c083cd84c

This is interesting
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-CROSSOVER-INDUCTORS-1-9-MH-150-WATT-80-X-30-MM_W0QQitemZ310183722710QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item483863fed6

Also

http://www.parts-express.com/mfg/jantzen/jantzen.cfm#15gauge

http://www.parts-express.com/erse-14-gauge-air-core-inductors.cfm

http://www.parts-express.com/erse-18-gauge-air-core-inductors.cfm

In fact this Parts Express stuff has me looking to order some. These coils I have had for some years and I just tried them, but now there are many choices.

Hope that helps

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 23, 2009, 04:31:02 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320452855798&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Well the seller that I got my reeds from has them again, about 12 bux shipped
I just may order more to have.

mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 27, 2009, 06:11:22 AM
Extremely worthy of a read:

http://milesmathis.com/double.html

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on November 28, 2009, 05:14:05 PM
and some work very similiar to what I am doing, better, he already achieved what I am trying to do.

http://pesn.com/2009/11/12/Child_rides_on_free_energy_Boyce_watkykjy1/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQDP4pD-ZBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiOF9kpAJn0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mH3n7Htdoc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNx6J2uYXHA


Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on November 30, 2009, 03:53:33 AM
Ok guys, Just uploaded a vid with a funtional 2nd stage running off of the 1st stage bemf, and charging an old 12v 7ah bat off of the 2nd stage bemf.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXxvAQ_mdUk

I am letting the battery charge to see where it comes up to.
I am very happy with this setup. =]

Magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on December 01, 2009, 03:22:31 AM
@Magluvin

great work my friend. It is becoming more and more like the claims of Dr. Adam. I am bluntly impressed with your work.

I finally got my new reed switches just like yours. Now I have to order the coils. Slowly but surely I will replicate what you are doing too!

Keep it coming, please.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on December 01, 2009, 04:10:23 AM
Thanks Plengo
I made that transformer on the whim. making another tonight, but a bit smaller.
Did you check out those audio coils at Parts express?  Awsome selection.

I have read that an air core transformer can amplify the power, not just current or voltage. The one in the vid is going off of an idea from tesla, but I think it is more for high voltage and freq, so Im going smaller n tighter.
The vid before that one, with the second stage active on the rotor, the reeds were switching out of phase for sure. And it worked. The battery went up to 8v but settled back to above 4v. She is a goner. I am very exited about the amount of bemf "power" I am getting from these coils. In the beginning, after seeing what everyone else was using, I assumed more turns/finer wire, but now I feel differently.

mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: guruji on December 01, 2009, 08:47:36 PM
Hi guys is there a way to charge 12v batteries with bedini motor through caps? cause I tried bedini motor to charge batteries but it seems that it was ghost charge after a day they return as they were.
Any help please?
Thanks
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2009, 07:19:03 AM
Hey Guruji
I have not gone full bedini yet, as in using one battery to run the circuit and rotor, to charge, or say exchange charge to another battery. I have been trying to get beyond batteries, hopefully, someday. My aim is to try and get the most out of back emf as compared to how much I used to produce the back emf. Then, by getting my rotors to go very fast, say maybe 5000 rpms or higher, it leaves me a lot of room to load the rotor with charging coils, down to lets say 2000 rpm, loaded, then hopefully what ever we got in charge coils, could be higher than the difference between bat power used and back emf gain, which should be enough in bemf and charge to eliminate the battery. If we were to get to that point, develop it into something that either produces excess power electrically or mechanically.
Werd.
But Im sure someone here would help you that has more experience than me.
There is a vid on yt, this guy was charging his input bat and a second bat.
But who knows, till ya do it. =]

magluvin
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on December 28, 2009, 05:40:37 AM
During this christimas time I have been working as hard as one can. Now I am playing with the Bob Boyce's toroid coil/core and Bedini stuff, as the usual.

Since I have tested the hell of pulsating batteries and indeed they charge in weird ways using almost not current at all I decided to play with the "radiant energy" of Bob boyces since he claims that his toroid will do it.

So, I built one of his coils/core as demonstrated at this place (http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/bobboyce.htm) and decided to play with the idea of using instead of Bob's controller use Bedini's SSG as the pulsating mechanism.

It took me 3 weeks to build the coil and even more for the parts. They are expensive and the task is intensively boring but if you like meticulous work this is great, such as I do.

Following some pictures of my coil building process and of my new board with 3 Bedini's SSG being used by my running system.

My first findings are simply amazing, but I have said that before and only after testing and measuring one will know for sure, so I am in the process of finding the best tunning and performing the even more boring and long test of charge and load via my thrusty "Power Analyzer Pro" (from Medusa - http://www.medusaproducts.com/Power-Analyzers/pa-60100R.htm) and my load tester CBA II (http://www.westmountainradio.com/CBA.htm).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on December 28, 2009, 05:41:35 AM
more picures
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on December 28, 2009, 06:22:52 AM
Very sweet Plen!  Wondered where you were. Cant wait to see it in action. Hope you had a good holiday.
I have been messing a bit with the coils. I have 1 self oscillating using a big reed and a magnet to trigger the reed and the coil cancels it to oscillate. Then I take the back emf from the coil through 2 caps from each leg of the coil then to a bridge rectifier then store into caps. The power stored in the latter caps is able to run the motor with its own big coil/reed very well. Using the 2 caps to restrict the dc from the oscillator works very well at extracting the bemf from the oscillator coil, keeping the reed safe also. The oscillators bat. is at 5v and the caps on the motor end hold a good 10v while running the motor. Have more playing to do.
Good to see ya back. =]

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on December 29, 2009, 01:17:34 AM
So much fun with this stuff. Some pictures of my TPU (I wish), Tri-Bedini, micro-controller setup.

So basically I have a 3 bedini SSG being allowed to pulse at 120 degree apart by the control of the micro-controller board. I turn on and off 3 switches that turns on and off each SSG in sequence. Each SSG is connected to one of the 120 degrees apart primaries and all 3 SSGs are sharing the same secondary (white wire).

The pulses on the scope is showing each pulse at almost (I wish again) equidistant pulses. The div scale is in the .05 volts/div/vert because once the 95 amp/hour charging battery is connect it will suck up all the pulses. Since this is a regular SSG we all know that the pulses should be a H curve but since they are running in resonance mode they are more like an H with a half triangle at the bottom of the signal.

The driving voltage is around 12.40 and running at 100 ma (by choice). Charging battery is charging substantially fast but time will tell on the load.

This is the final design I had in mind when I started the toroid construction.

Fausto.

ps: Scope shot 7 is now a change on the program where all the pulses are finally 120 degrees apart and equally distanced. Current increased to 150ma and bettery is charging even faster.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on December 29, 2009, 01:18:50 AM
Very sweet Plen!  Wondered where you were. Cant wait to see it in action. Hope you had a good holiday.
I have been messing a bit with the coils. I have 1 self oscillating using a big reed and a magnet to trigger the reed and the coil cancels it to oscillate. Then I take the back emf from the coil through 2 caps from each leg of the coil then to a bridge rectifier then store into caps. The power stored in the latter caps is able to run the motor with its own big coil/reed very well. Using the 2 caps to restrict the dc from the oscillator works very well at extracting the bemf from the oscillator coil, keeping the reed safe also. The oscillators bat. is at 5v and the caps on the motor end hold a good 10v while running the motor. Have more playing to do.
Good to see ya back. =]

Mags

Good work Magluvin. Do you have a new video to share?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on December 29, 2009, 02:41:04 AM
I will do a vid soon. I am ordering some higher voltage caps to better handle the output from the oscillator. The 2 100v on each leg of the oscillator output I believe are leaking the full potential of what I can get to the bridge and the storage caps. This was something I had an idea for a while back and just whipped it up the other day.  The idea came from a thought of necessity of shorter pulses to a coil than I was getting from rotor motion alone, to get more efficient bemf compared to power consumed during the reed on cycle from the rotor speed.
The freq seems quite high when adjusted properly, above 8khz with these reeds.
Will do a vid soon. Been so busy, I was lucky to have time the other day to mess with it a bit.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on January 04, 2010, 05:53:53 PM
Plengo
What happening?  Did you get the coils in yet?
Im still waiting for caps. The setup that self oscillates to run the motor circuit is kind of inefficient. But man the rotor runs. Ill do a vid here soon. Havnt played for a bit. The caps I need are for the ones that the bemf from the oscillator, in series, to the rect/charge caps. Its putting out up to 400v and the caps I have are 100v and I dont want to kill them. They may be leaking and consuming what Im making.
All this playing, I dont know if we will get more than in unless we figure some good tricks to this. I think bedini has the answers, but is only giving us a taste and we have to figure out the rest, just like everything else.
Thats why Im delving into Tesla stuff to see what I can figure out. It would be nice to really harness some free juice. Even just a little.
Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on January 05, 2010, 01:49:54 AM
I agree about Bedini. Only bits and pieces and that after many DVDs. :)

Well my 3 bedini board cooked and I get pissed and started designing a new board again. SSGs dont work well all in one board because of its RF component. They all bleed to each other.

I did get some interesting effects using the big toroid and SSGs. High voltages with very low input voltages. This big toroid did not work just pulsating with my controllers like Bob Boyce say, but I did not have his controller either, so it still needs more testing.

Definitely I will play more with it. So many things to do and experiment so many failures and so little successes.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on January 05, 2010, 03:30:57 AM
Just a tidbit, in my self oscillator setup, I have a lead off of each end of the coil going to the 2 series caps that go to a bridge rectifier. With the motor pulling from the charge cap far end of the bridge, the osc. reed is heard nice and clear, no visible spark at all. If I remove the load (motor), the charge cap goes all the way up and the osc. reed gets quiet(no sound) and a blue glow surrounds that contact tips. Is it possible that the reed contacts are not even touching at this point and the conduction is just crossing the plasma glow? I will show this in the vid also. It just seems strange like it is oscillating without reed action at this point.  Also, do you know if it might be producing any harmful radiation in that glow? =0

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on January 05, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
Plengo
Have you read or seen this article?

http://www.fight-4-truth.com/Schematics.html

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on January 05, 2010, 06:52:21 PM
Maybe you have seen this page before. The real interesting part starts at image 14  titled Spark Discharge.

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on January 14, 2010, 04:32:00 AM
Plengo
Have you read or seen this article?

http://www.fight-4-truth.com/Schematics.html

Mags

Hey Mag,

yes I have seen it. Thanks again. Cool stuff at the TPU Prize with agents. I am ready to start replication.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on January 14, 2010, 04:36:28 AM
some more updates:

I have been very busy with other projects too including this one at another forum (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-57.html#post79648), Dr.R.Stiffler. Great stuff for those that like lots of Leds for almost nothing.

Since I am also watching the TPU her (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8586.msg222263#msg222263), I decided to give a try at my Bob Boyce Toroid and I am surprised.

There is indeed some weird effects pulsating a coil like this one with 50% duty (which I never had done really). My scope can not see the pulses really. It is very difficult to see the output pulse when things are just right.

There are so many weird effects that I will have to document a little bit better and post it here. I am also watching very closely this other forum at (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/962-use-tesla-switch-56.html) since I love this Tesla Battery Switch thingy!

My latest 3 SSG board simply cooked and I dismantled it so that I can reuse the parts. Funny that the board cooked not the parts. Something to think about, why would such a combination of SSGs and this toroid would cause this???

I will have to design a better layout for my next 3 SSG board so that RF does not interfere one with the other.

So, for now not much to show here buts lots of researches and other projects.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on January 14, 2010, 04:56:55 AM
Hey Plen
Yeah I hope it works. It would be good for everyone.  Im rigging up a big coil set into osc. with a reed and a mag. The bemf I get is pretty strong. Like a chopper circuit. With the big coils I get big current.  Anyway I tried my gates coil with just the bemf pulses from the osc, I didnt see anything on the sec. But, Im just trying stuff. I can change the freq by adjusting the reed. Its about 1000 to 8000 hz with those reeds.
But now im setting it up to store the bemf to a cap and I have a 12v relay core aired out, And Im going to put that across the charge cap. Right now with a 1 uf cap the voltage with the 12v coil its about 10v. This is all powered by the osc bemf which runs on 5v. If I raise the value of the cap, volts with the 12v coil load will rise.  Then Im going to use a big reed in that 12v coil to dump the charge cap to the gates coil. So the 12v coil reed will osc. also when the cap voltage gets high enough to trigger the reed, it dumps the cap into the gates coil then the reed is turned off due to the gates coil taking what was in the cap. So it will be a second osc. in the circuit.  If I get a cap that can hold the charge voltage to 30v with the 12v coil acros it, then I will be in the V range it is supose to work with.  The 12v coil will get hot but hopefully it will take some abuse being chopped. If it smokes, from bemf, I know, it sounds silly, then I will get a 24v from RS and retest.  lol Im trying to be like Tesla and pretend that semiconductors are not available yet other than diodes. =]
I have no clue if it will do anything but Im giving it a go. When all else fails I will do a 555 and a fet setup.

Even if it doesnt work I want to do a vid showing the chopper chop then rechop. =]

Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: guruji on February 16, 2010, 11:22:34 PM
Hi guys it's better to do a rectifier than diodes only to charge batteries on SSG?
Thanks
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on February 17, 2010, 02:32:30 AM
Hi guys it's better to do a  than diodes only to charge batteries on SSG?
Thanks

In my experience it depends. If you use SSG with a cap that collects the energy and than dumps it to the battery it will be better to have the bridge before the cap. If you are using no caps I think a diode is better.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: guruji on February 17, 2010, 01:46:15 PM
Hi Plengo thanks for repsonse. I saw Bedini youtube vids and he was always using a bridge even for just pulsing the batteries. The interesting thing that he mentioned is that one can do as many coils as he like in series with the other coil and all will give extra energy.
Thanks
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on February 24, 2010, 03:17:03 AM
I must share this news:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228923n&tag=related;photovideo

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on February 24, 2010, 06:03:00 AM
looks like 60 min removed the vid
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: Magluvin on February 24, 2010, 06:16:47 AM
Tried the vid a few times, no go. Then On a page in the background it started. See it now.. But what


Mags
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on February 25, 2010, 02:20:07 AM
The link works. If not, look for the "The Bloom box" alternative energy.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 06, 2010, 01:15:47 PM
So!!!!

How did your self sustaining bedini attempt turn out after all testing?
And how did you plan to make it self sustaining?

If I may ask nicely!
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on April 07, 2010, 02:45:19 AM
It is running still today non stop, If I may answer nicely.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 07, 2010, 08:17:59 AM
Without any external power source that is, I suppose?
And how did you re-route the excess energy from the battery being charged, to run the motor in closed loop?

Just curiously asking!
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on April 08, 2010, 02:05:19 AM
Just kidding FatChance. It is not running in self-mode and I have not spent much time on it any longer.

It does run very economicaly but not overunity.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 08, 2010, 08:10:13 AM
I'm very sad to hear that.
Another one bites the dust....

I wonder whom and what choice of solution will be the first to reach overunity?
 
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on April 09, 2010, 01:45:49 AM
oh, if you are looking for overunity, dont look further than SEC by Dr.Stiffler.

It is indeed overunity, it is just not developed enough to get you running your house!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 09, 2010, 10:32:43 AM
Thank you Plengo. Very nice to hear.

I investigated your advice about Dr Stifflers SEC.
There is really a lot of interesting information.
You seem to have been involved a lot in this development.

Can I kindly ask you to direct me to a video or some other verification
of a self running SEC without any batteries or external power source involved?
By this I mean closed loop operation from a capacitor only!

Sincerely Yours / FC
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on April 09, 2010, 07:31:43 PM
I have not seen any closed loop SEC in operation yet. I have seen Dr.Stiffler measuring in a very convincing manner the input/output of a SEC.

There are some other interesting effects with that device, although very simple in parts, very complex in its not so obvious functionality.

There are many videos about it on YouTube where you can see very strange effects presented by common people including wireless (no wires at all) transmission of energy. I think the best is just search on YouTube for SEC.

Also Dr.Stiffler sells kits (or you can build one yourself) for those that are willing to play with it. I have done some very interesting experiments with it in the past and my latest experiment had a performance of nothing like i have seen (http://www.energeticforum.com/79943-post1718.html, http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-58.html).

It is a device that one must play with it to see it. Closing the loop seams to be an issue with many different devices that I have seen since as soon as you close the loop things goes wrong.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 12, 2010, 08:34:10 AM
Ohhh. I'm very sad to hear that. My hopes were high on the SEC.
I believed the loop was closed and the focus was on a larger usuable output.
Do you think further development will be able to close the loop or could it be
as simple as measurements errors or false understanding on how the SEC operate?
What is your own personal perspective in this matter, if I may kindly ask you?
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 03, 2010, 09:49:37 PM
I am about to complete an excellent test and post amazing results.

So far my SSG has been running for a few days with no battery voltage degradation but the opposite, going up. I am using a 7 digits meter and even using just capacitors the results looks promising although not perfect.

I think I do finally have a self-runner with the exception of the switching electronics (coupled by a relay) being fed externally, but no extra energy to run the circuit.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 03, 2010, 10:30:05 PM
I am about to complete an excellent test and post amazing results.

So far my SSG has been running for a few days with no battery voltage degradation but the opposite, going up. I am using a 7 digits meter and even using just capacitors the results looks promising although not perfect.

I think I do finally have a self-runner with the exception of the switching electronics (coupled by a relay) being fed externally, but no extra energy to run the circuit.

Fausto.

@Fausto

Sounds excellent! If you could summarize your configuration,
because this thread has covered a lot of territory! I know you
have the capacity to do this correctly, so we'll see.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 04, 2010, 11:51:23 PM
Thanks S:MarkSCoffman for the interest.

I am having some difficulties preparing the info and replicating it myself so that I can show everyone.
I should have been quiet before shouting victory! It is very difficult to hold the emotions when one finds cool stuff.

Basically I have a 6 pole SSG running with a cap. But the cap is replaced with a battery instead and a little tricky pulsating the source battery into the SSG using a relay. There is a very fine relationship between the amount of energy generated from the SSG output and what is converted inside a battery (the replacer of the cap) for reuse.

What basically I have was a system running for 3 days and the voltage on ALL the 2 batteries not only went up but kept them selfs at 4 decimals digits unchanged. There is a long time.

Off course I had to change things to document and short circuit things and burn some energy and cables and pretty much destroy the integrity of the test. So, another round of days of tests before I waist anyone's efforts in replicating.

Sorry about that. Be back soon with more data hopefully.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 10, 2010, 04:18:45 AM
Ok. I am confident it is indeed a self-runner. I am not even using any switching this time.

It does charge the batteries as it runs. It is so simple that it is difficult to believe. Please guys try it.

And the SSGs are NOT spinning, they are in self-oscillation mode.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: teslaalset on September 10, 2010, 09:57:19 AM
Ok. I am confident it is indeed a self-runner. I am not even using any switching this time.

It does charge the batteries as it runs. It is so simple that it is difficult to believe. Please guys try it.

And the SSGs are NOT spinning, they are in self-oscillation mode.

Fausto.

Fausto, thanks for sharing.
I have been following various privat SSG projects.
This one shows much resemblance with a Swedish guy who shows OU with self oscillationg SSG circuits.
He a bit of a strange guy, but he sounds sincere and responded to questions.
He has a youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/oglundasotarn
Some of his results are shown e.g. in this particular video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZjsv77r--w
He started his research doing a traditional SSG with a bycle wheel but ended up with a self oscillating setup.

As you indicated, yours is in self oscillating mode as well.
Is the wheel fixed by a clamp or something, or free to move?
So, I am just wondering whether there is some kind of mechanical resonance that causes the self oscillation or that you have oscillation purely by electronics.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 10, 2010, 05:01:42 PM
teslaset,

nothing is moving. It is very easy to make an SSG self-oscilate. I have many videos in my youtube channel (under plengo) that shows that. It is just a matter of reducing the resistor value connected to the base of the transistor until you get it running.

Sometimes it is necessary to pass a magnet over the coil once to trigger and it will go.

My setup for this self-running is not easy to replicate and observe I would say. One must observe for days until noticed and understand the behavior of the battery.

if the battery is fully chaged, it will go down a lot but there is a point where it stabilizes and there it goes up and down, and up and down. Stop for 8 hours and the voltage will rest at a point. Start the whole process again and keep giving rest to the battery (disconnect fully from the system) and the voltage will start resting at higher and higher levels.

I started with two fully charged batteries at 12.50v and now they are at 11.50v. During the experimentation I have tried many variations and never recharged the batteries again. So I end up with voltages as low as 9v.

Than I found this fine point where you see on the diagram and it keeps a very fine balance. Give it a rest for a few hours and voila, voltage rest at higher than when started.

I am planning to leave this untouched until it either will kill the batteries for good or go higher and higher. Time will tell.

I added a switch that turns on/off every so often to do that rest for me.

My findings leads me to conclude that SSG indeed creates a signal that the battery is capable of converting into good energy that can run the system, BUT you can never really take energy out and in on the battery at the "same instant in time". One must let the battery either be in "charge" state or "load" state.

That's why I use the switching mechanism. Bedini shows that clearly in his free energy book with the motor and a heavy fly wheel.

I must confess that batteries are very tricky. They ghost charge and tricky you a lot and my biggest difficulty is distinguishing that. When it is a good charge or a ghost temporary charge.

I noticed also that when the battery is very low in voltage it behaves the best in receiving the radiant energy.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: teslaalset on September 10, 2010, 05:08:44 PM
@Fausto,

Are you saying that there is no external magnet present near the bifilar coil when self-oscillating?
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 10, 2010, 05:13:51 PM
@Fausto,

Are you saying that there is no external magnet present near the bifilar coil when self-oscillating?

Sorry. There is. I am just not spinning the wheel. Yes, they could be helping the self-resonating although I don't think it is really relevant.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: teslaalset on September 10, 2010, 05:29:26 PM
Sorry. There is. I am just not spinning the wheel. Yes, they could be helping the self-resonating although I don't think it is really relevant.

Fausto.

If there is even the slightest (not noticeable by eye) movement, it is very relevant.
If you move a permanent magnet across a magnetic iron core, it will influence the B-H curve.
B-H curves are extremely sensitive to external magnetic influence.
If the B-H curve is altered during the electronic pulsing of the coil this might be the clue for OU.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 10, 2010, 07:08:41 PM
Oh I see. If that's the case, YES the wheel vibrates very tinily during the pulses, so all 6 coils will have that B-H curve affected as you say (aka Steorn??).

Indeed that could be one of the pieces of the puzzle. I am very sure that the battery is extremely important element because replacing with CAPs (no matter how small or big they are and voltages) the difference is simply too dramatic and negative.

Caps work well when used to maintain certain voltages or better avoid voltage fluctuations and that with 50% losses off course. When used as storage it is simply a disaster.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: teslaalset on September 10, 2010, 07:23:30 PM
Oh I see. If that's the case, YES the wheel vibrates very tinily during the pulses, so all 6 coils will have that B-H curve affected as you say (aka Steorn??).

Yes, this is the exact reason, resemblance with Steorn.
I'll try to explain my understanding later this weekend, tonight I am not at home, I need to access some graphs I made earlier.

I am very sure that the battery is extremely important element because replacing with CAPs (no matter how small or big they are and voltages) the difference is simply too dramatic and negative.

Interesting finding and good to know.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: teslaalset on September 10, 2010, 08:11:07 PM
Fausto,

Would be very interesting to see what your results are when you fixate the rotor relative to the coils.
When you're done with your planned experiments, would you care to run such a charge run to see whether this indeed has impact?
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 10, 2010, 10:15:40 PM
if you mean making the rotor non-movable not even to the tiny bit, sure.

I will.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: nul-points on September 11, 2010, 11:04:52 AM
My setup for this self-running is not easy to replicate and observe I would say. One must observe for days until noticed and understand the behavior of the battery.
...
if the battery is fully chaged, it will go down a lot but there is a point where it stabilizes and there it goes up and down, and up and down. Stop for 8 hours and the voltage will rest at a point. Start the whole process again and keep giving rest to the battery (disconnect fully from the system) and the voltage will start resting at higher and higher levels.
...
I added a switch that turns on/off every so often to do that rest for me.
...
I noticed also that when the battery is very low in voltage it behaves the best in receiving the radiant energy.

hi Fausto

interesting results and reports!


i can add confirmation of these effects from my own investigation of capacitor and low-power pulsed inductor behaviour

from my own experience i think you may find that these 'interesting' battery states occur at regular voltage increments (particular to each battery?)


i first noticed the effect in capacitors whilst datalogging the anomalous low-level daily charge cycle on capacitors with a high-impedance load

i later saw and recognised the same behaviour when charging and discharging NiCd & NiMH batteries with my test circuits

here are a couple of example discharge graphs (battery & Capacitor) from the 'Secret Life of Capacitors' PDF which i produced recently containing the datalogging results

   PDF at:  ringcomps.co.uk/doc
   (PDF download link is at top of 'Latest' page, reached from side menu bar)

   OU.com thread at:  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9393.msg247816#msg247816

my on-going investigations use very low-power pulse circuits to investigate the possibility of achieving a self-sustaining pulse circuit

i am seeing this same effect of the battery (and capacitor) sources reaching a voltage 'plateau' in their discharge voltage level which prolongs the supply to the circuit, without decrease of terminal voltage

my circuit is pulsing current (at approx 12Hz at present) thro' LEDs and a transformer primary and returning energy pulses to the battery (8.4V 150mAh NiMH/NiCd; very discharged)

the circuit provides its own pulse timing (using a relaxation oscillator) with a mark-space ratio of approx 1:1000 - this is intended to achieve that condition you describe as allowing the battery to 'rest' between loading


at present, however, i've noticed that although the terminal voltage is remaining fixed for days (or sometimes weeks, with flash rates < 1Hz) the actual pk-pk voltage of the drive pulses is very gradually decreasing

so at the moment it appears that what is happening is that yes, we can achieve a sustained (or sometimes increased) 'rest' terminal voltage on the source - *but* the energy draw also appears to effectively increase the internal impedance of the source with time

so the net effect is that the energy supplied from the source is decreasing , even though the terminal voltage appears static


these are still interesting effects - particularly the 'plateau' behaviour of (some?) batteries and capacitors, which i take to be the results of some Quantum energy level effect, common to both storage media


i'm pleased to see that someone else is seeing the same sort of effects and i look forward to hearing more about your results as your tests continue!

all the best
sandy
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 11, 2010, 06:44:50 PM
Very good response Sandy,

I am seeing exactly the same as you better described. Longer doing this more the total energy decreases although maintaining the voltage level (which some say the voltage means nothing concerning total energy in the system).

I am very interested in the effect itself and the "impression" that I can run for a long time once finding that particular balance on that "plateu" of the voltage and its current capacity of generating (by whatever means) the necessary energy back to sustain that plateu.

It is something to do with the spikes and the battery chemistry. I wonder if changing some form of the frequency of that spike and period of application of it would cause a trully self-sustaining (although zero energy battery) system.

What I care is a self-sustaining system irrelevant of meters confirm the level of energy or not. If it runs for a long, long, long time that is what I want.

Only than I will work on engineering a larger scale.

I knew your site somehow and good articles too.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on September 11, 2010, 07:07:27 PM
Sandy,

after reading your "The Secret Life of Capacitors PDF" article I immediately remembered some of my own observations concerning the voltage fluctuations on my experiments.

Some of the fluctuations would be more pronounced on certain days and hours which many times rushed me to come to the forum and post a "success" message while not to only wait another day and the voltage would drop again (causing me great deal of frustration).

If I did not understand your article wrong, would be possible to utilize that moment where the earth is charged higher?

I quote your choosen best explanation:
Quote
) our capacitors are being charged directly by the ionospheric charge above us;
(i understand that a Faraday cage only blocks AC fields, not static DC fields)

Don't you think would be possible to have an array of capacitor or batteries that utilize that extra energy (during those peaks)?

Fausto.

Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: NerzhDishual on September 12, 2010, 12:15:18 AM
Hi SSGers!

BTW:
Salutations to Nul-Points (the guy from Dorset/GB). :))

Thanks to Plengo for his creative SelfRunner-SSG-v2 CirCuiT
Worth to be tried indeed.

My (poor?) understanding:
At a first glance, 'statically-wise',  the voltage across C1 should be 12 volts!
If it is not the case that means that the C1 cap and the bat are both feeding the CCT while being both charged.
But the bat is kinda 'helped' by the cap.
BTW2: IMHO, the cap and the bat are not charged with current but with voltages spikes.

Something to try, IMHO: to put smaller C1 capacitor and change R4.
Do you remember this DJT CCT where a tiny 100 pF cap is used to power the second JT?
This is Tesla stuff...

------------------------   
As far as I can catch it, a self oscillating SSG is an SSG with a non spinning but
vibrating rotor.

In that case, IMHO, it looks like a mere basic Joule Thief with, notably, an extra diode at
the transistor base and a magnet 'near' the double coil.
Is it not?

I have observed some self charging effects (bat voltage increase) with one JT-like CCT (triple coil).

Unfortunately, it does not last more than a "small couple of" hours and after that, the bat voltage
begins to decrease like my patience.  :-\

Actually I did not use a very tricky wiring and the Plengo CCT gives me some ideas
for my JTs and my SSGs.


Very Best
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: mscoffman on September 16, 2010, 07:23:34 PM
@plengo

In the "Self running coil" link;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8892.0

User gotoluc used a stator coil from a small utility AC powered vent-fan motor
as a "probe coil" to capture some energy back from his main coil. When used for
calculations the behavior of his main circuit, which was powered from a capacitor,
added to the extra energy captured by the probe secondary coil seemed "way"
overunity.

Unfortunately he didn't go the route of using a pulse transformer and/or a
diode voltage multiplier to step the voltage from the extra coil energy up in a
way that could have inserted it back into the capacitor, to demonstrate overunity.

I was thinking you could try something similar. If you do try it, you should load the
coil with a resistor rather than having an open coil, but the concept is to try to
get some power back without affecting the main coil loading initially. This might
nudge your self recharging battery circuit to overunity and allow you to optimize
on the other side of unity power gain. You also have some microcontroller
capability to try, which could get interesting.

---

I also wonder if possible to "punch through" the fantom charge voltage
by stopping charging and putting a high load on the battery for a very brief
time to correctly assess the actual battery voltage-state-of-charge.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: plengo on December 28, 2010, 05:56:44 AM
I started a new thread about the Captret and Tesla Switch experiment.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10175.msg268501#msg268501

Fausto.
Title: Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
Post by: theviper0308 on October 13, 2013, 04:39:50 PM
hye... im newbie here. sorry if i ask a noob question..

i have read about the bedini generator.

it using two battery right. one is use for drive, another one is for charge.
if the bedini is running, is is the drive battery will drain? is it i need to change the drive battery in another time?
sorry for my bad english. i hope you understand what i mean. thanks :)