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Author Topic: Bedini SSG - self sustaining  (Read 135543 times)

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2009, 03:43:07 AM »
Guys thank you for asking for the schematics. Forgive me for not showing it yet simply because I was analyzing the real physical circuit to make sure I was doing what I was really doing. I also disassembled it and put it back just to see if there is no connection failures.

To my surprise nothing was wrong and somethings were not what I thought it would be. So, I decided to try my "monkey science" again and see if I could replicate it and voala! I can, and I can replicate it as many times as I want really, really easy. It is so easy that I am about to create a very simple circuit that will be replicatable by those who have the TS circuit (like you Groundloop).

It is indeed something very weird and I can make the battery voltage go UP ABOVE that starting voltage. I can let the battery sit and rest and try it and it will GO UP. There is a point though, that the voltage will STOP going up and start to go down to a certain still above resting voltage and stay there. Then I can do my "magic" again and the voltage will GO UP again and again and again. Actually I dont even have to wait for the voltage to go down and rest, I can keep doing as the voltage reaches the top tipping point and do my" magic" and get it to go UP again and again.

I have not found the limit yet, but I also dont have all the time in the world to wait for that, so, I am creating a new circuit that will do that for me kind of automatic.

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2009, 03:43:07 AM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2009, 04:11:48 AM »
.

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2009, 04:30:52 AM »
Ok. here it goes the explanation. Please bear with me on this one.

In 1) I show a regular SSG circuit with a driving battery B2 and a charging battery B1. Nothing special.

In 2) I show how I implemented the Switching mechanism. Notice the S1 is one switching that only connects the negative terminal of B1 to the negative rail of the system. S2 does the same for B2. S3 only connects the positive terminal of B1 to the diode D1 when it is turned on otherwise that connection (and ALL other connections follows the same rule) is opened. S4 connects positive of B1 to the positive rail of the system. S5 connects positive of B2 to D1, S6 connects positive of B2 to positive rail of system.

The switching goes like this at 50khz: S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S6 all OFF. Than I turn on S3, S2 and S6 for sometime. Next I turn off S3, S2 and S6 and give some 5us time and turn ON S5, S4, S1. Wait sometime and start all over again with ALL switches off.

This goes on at infinitum until I die.:)

Now, here is the mystery. If you let this system run you will simply deplete all batteries. Nothing special. SO, I changed the circuit slowly until I reached stage 4) where B1 has been replaced with a capacitor C2 and disconnected SSG from all, except for D1 (I Know it does not make sence and who cares, I am craizy anyway).

Remember that in 4) the schematics is not showing the switches but they are there just like in circuit 2). I am still switching B2 with C1 in position if you study how the swtiches goes. It is the same as physically taking B2 and putting in place of C1 and vice-versa at the rate of 50khz.

BTW, 50khz is a number that I found by simply trying the hell of it with all sort of frequencies until I get the best results and the batteries are 7amp/h SLAs.

Now here is the cool stuff:  Once upon a time I shorted B2 when running circuit 4) by mistake and I noticed that the voltage on B2 dropped substantially but to only return back to where it was and all that while the system is running. Than the voltage started to increase really fast to ABOVE the voltage BEFORE the short. It went up for about 0.1v. The whole process took about a couple of hours.

I was so happy to see that that I started dreaming about the future of a better world already (dumb me :)). What I later learned that the voltage raize only worked for sometime and later the battery restored its resting voltage to a lower value but still above the voltage before the shorting. What I did not realized at the time was that the shortting did the trick. That's why I could not understand why all of a sudden the system "stopped working"!

Today I (3 days later) I realized that the shorting and the pulsating the batteries IS THE SECRET.

Now I am running a more simplified circuit (just a little bit simpler) with that in mind and at every 15 or so minutes I go there and short B2 for only a microsecond and voala, the voltage ALWAYS goes DOWN and UP to ABOVE the before previous voltage. I have been doing that tonight for a little while and the voltage from 11.58v now is 11.6540 and still razing as long as I do that "shorting trick".

My next design will do that automatically.

Fausto.


ps: to me this is a kind of Tesla Switch but with only one battery behavior.
ps2: if i do not do the "shortting trick" the battery WILL NOT raize in voltage. So I guess the bleeding power from the opts is not really responsible for the voltage raize. I also tested that letting the system run for a whole day without the "shortting" and the voltage actually decreased.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 06:02:34 AM by plengo »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2009, 04:30:52 AM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2009, 07:51:29 PM »
Plengo;

Your experiment is going very well.

Question: At the top of the first schematic you have drawn a transformer,
Is that really a transformer or is that the coils of an SGS motor? Is
The Bedini motor running during the events you describe?

---

I felt all along that shorting the battery was the key to this process.
I suspect what is happening is that the electrolyte in the battery
is showing “charge stratification". The shorting action causes
this to dissipate, and the charging process to continue.

The key of course is knowing, or being able to guess, the actual
long term state of charge voltage on the battery -> from
taking short term voltage readings. The other thing I found out
by reading the internet is that a load resistor across the battery
might help stabilize the voltage when taking voltage readings
with a high impedance DVM(1/8 watt, 1/4 watt...1/2 watt ect.)
This could be asserted easily via automation.

---

Your tendency to do “Monkey Science” as you describe it, actually
a try-everything approach is kind of like the invention methods
of T. Edison. But you will also need to behave like a fisherman and
“reel in your catch” once in a while by formalizing things or you
could miss something of value.

---

You should consider increasing the number of control ports on your
microcontroller. One way to do this is to simply glue the edge of
another vector board to your original, and rewire some additional
IC’s ports to the microcontroller. Be sure to add some of Groundloops
style relays and relay drivers.

---

You should look forward slightly towards your ultimate goal of draining
excess charged energy from the battery using automation.
Stopping your circuit and keeping track of the voltage as it drops
through a known load (higher wattage) resistor while also keeping track of
the time that it takes to meet a low voltage goal. This can be recorded
as Energy in watt-seconds. Once you beat the total ampere hour
Capacity or your battery – you have it – proven overunity energy.
You can then restart your circuit and get some more, repeatedly.

---

You can then optimize things futher to find out how much
you can get. Then look at running your automation with that.
A true perpetual motion machine - or close enough for me
anyhow.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2009, 08:13:28 PM »
@mscoffman

thanks for the comments. Yes the coils in the schematics 1) is the coil of the SSG. That was what I started with when I was testing Groundloop's TS circuit. Something that I am familiar so why not try a tesla switch approach and see how the PIC controller works.

Than I slowly progresses towards the schematics on 4) where the SSG is gone and only the caps and one battery (B2) is left in place with the switching still going but slightly changed (as already shown on the switching sequence of previous posts).

Last night as I was changing to a fifth design where I would "short" the battery automatically but my switch SW6 burned. I guess the transistor is gone. I have to buy a new one and install.

Concerning a more advanced design for the future, I am on it. Thanks to Groundloop original design, I am expanding on it and creating a 12 switches circuit where I can not only do more but also I will be using a different PIC processor that I can real-time control via the USB of the computer.

I know you guys know how to do that already but for me it has been very difficult trying to program and test. There is lots to learn. I somehow think that a different PIC more inline with USB and ready for MICROCHIP products such as "PicKit 2 Debugger express" is easier for me and others to get ready boards and downloaders and other things to try this out.

The voltage raizing right after the short is simply phenomenal and not even logical in my opnion. I am suspicious that bigger the battery better it will be the raizing. I can barely wait for the weekend to try many things out. So little time.

BTW, since my board is out of order since last night, I noticed that the voltage on my battery is resting at a much higher voltage than even the previous achievements. Very weird. Soon I will also do a load test to see if it is indeed a real charge or ghost charge.

Oh, another important thing is, if you dont have at least a 4 digits voltmeter it will be difficult to see this effect at first, but if you somehow do that many times with intervals lets say of one hour in between the "shortings" you might see 1/10 of a voltage increase in a 7amp/h battery.


Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2009, 08:13:28 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2009, 08:57:29 PM »
Fausto,

The new data sampler and relay board is almost ready soldered. Now I have to
make some software and start testing. I will be using the board in the image
to test the software, and when I'm done, then I will ship this board to you.
You can reuse the three IC's from the old board and just load the new SW
in the pic mcu. I'm still waiting for parts so it will take some time. (A week or two.)

Groundloop.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2009, 06:23:04 PM »
@mscoffman

Concerning a more advanced design for the future, I am on it. Thanks to Groundloop original design, I am expanding on it and creating a 12 switches circuit where I can not only do more but also I will be using a different PIC processor that I can real-time control via the USB of the computer.

I know you guys know how to do that already but for me it has been very difficult trying to program and test. There is lots to learn. I somehow think that a different PIC more inline with USB and ready for MICROCHIP products such as "PicKit 2 Debugger express" is easier for me and others to get ready boards and downloaders and other things to try this out.



>I always like to build an almost infinite expansion capability into these things
>because Like you already know, at first you want to build the u'p into
>the circuit to run it, and then you want to build some instrumentation
>into it, and then you want build some data archival, each step wants to
>control more and more digital lines. The downside to using a big version
>of the PIC chips is that is going to use more power when you eventually
>want to use limited power! I have used the 16F59 a 40pin chip and I
>programmed it with the standard PIC programmer.

> Also the key to software programming is getting some subroutines that
> you both completely understand and you know are completely reliable.
>This certainly takes time to do.

> I often find the easiest thing is to just patch some additional
>goodies into what you already have, then wait till the end to
>redesign it to the best possible way.

@mscoffman

The voltage raizing right after the short is simply phenomenal and not even logical in my opinion. I am suspicious that bigger the battery better it will be the raizing. I can barely wait for the weekend to try many things out. So little time.

BTW, since my board is out of order since last night, I noticed that the voltage on my battery is resting at a much higher voltage than even the previous achievements. Very weird. Soon I will also do a load test to see if it is indeed a real charge or ghost charge.



>You know when a battery becomes unloaded the voltage will rise
>with time. Like when you crank a car just a little to avoid using
>up the battery charge all at one time. The battery recovers some.

> Shorting a battery is definitely problematic, It will probably require a big
> relay (0ohms) whose contacts won't weld with the current.
> You may need to be satisfied with switching a low resistance high wattage
> resistor.

>Believe me, I have not said that "one size fits all" ie. lift-truck batteries
>are going to need to be handled the same way, but with
>vastly different switches. :)


[/quote]

@mscoffman

Oh, another important thing is, if you dont have at least a 4 digits voltmeter it will be difficult to see this effect at first, but if you somehow do that many times with intervals lets say of one hour in between the "shortings" you might see 1/10 of a voltage increase in a 7amp/h battery.


>By the way I was thinking if you need a very inaccurate voltage
>reading it may be possible to use the "control voltage pin" on
>an Ne555 timer to get timed pulses into the u'p then use a
>frequency to voltage conversion scheme to get an approximate
>but very inexpensive reading.

:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2009, 06:23:04 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2009, 11:45:45 AM »
Fausto,

The SW for the new data sampler and relay unit is done and tested.
(Attached is the HW design files and the SW source for the mcu.)
I selected to put my unit into a metal box. Looks nicer that way.

The unit has 4 unipolar differential inputs for 0 to 40,95 Volt. The
resolution for each input is 0,01 Volt. The accuracy for each input
is +/- 0,01 Volt. (This is by design of the MAX1202 a/d converter.)
(It is possible to use bipolar differential inputs by changing the SW.)
The sampling rate can be set from fast (29 single channel samplings pr. second
and 7 four channels samplings pr. second.) to slow.(1 sec steps up to 99 seconds.)
Unit has a built in real time clock.
The unit can be controlled by using a terminal program. Best result will be
with a application program run on a host PC.

Your card is waiting for some parts. Will ship as soon as I get them.

Design files and newest SW can be downloaded here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/DS_RL_V_1.rar

Groundloop.
 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 12:18:44 PM by Groundloop »

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2009, 06:04:34 PM »
@plengo

Associated with your battery shorting problem. How about using
a relay follower like this;

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Relay-BWD_5972280-P_409_R

It's cheap and could handle the high current. It may need to be fired
from an electrolytic capacitor, if you short it's only power source.
Just an idea.


---

@groundloop

This is a nice looking unit, with nice specs too.

---

@plengo

I am just throwing this out for your future consideration to
think about.

If you are running your PIC processor from a storage battery,
you may want to consider building a stand alone optoisolator
circuit (9pin to 9pin) to optoisolate your PIC processor from
your host PC for data transfer. This would segregate the
system ground from the PC ground for DC conductance
too. I'll try to find a circuit for this on the internet, it's
somewhat of a trick circuit but it will do the task.

:S:MarkSCoffman


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2009, 06:04:34 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2009, 09:34:20 PM »
Fausto,

The SW for the new data sampler and relay unit is done and tested.
(Attached is the HW design files and the SW source for the mcu.)
I selected to put my unit into a metal box. Looks nicer that way.

The unit has 4 unipolar differential inputs for 0 to 40,95 Volt. The
resolution for each input is 0,01 Volt. The accuracy for each input
is +/- 0,01 Volt. (This is by design of the MAX1202 a/d converter.)
(It is possible to use bipolar differential inputs by changing the SW.)
The sampling rate can be set from fast (29 single channel samplings pr. second
and 7 four channels samplings pr. second.) to slow.(1 sec steps up to 99 seconds.)
Unit has a built in real time clock.
The unit can be controlled by using a terminal program. Best result will be
with a application program run on a host PC.

Your card is waiting for some parts. Will ship as soon as I get them.

Design files and newest SW can be downloaded here:
http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/DS_RL_V_1.rar

Groundloop.

Oh my, this is AWSOME man. Beautifull design!!!

Hey Groundloop, what kind of relay is that in use? It is a one pole being either connected to either of the other 2 poles? If it is, it is EXCELLENT, no more concerns with positive and negative and much more flexible concerning current throughput, BUT if they are relays or some form of mechanical switching would not that limit the frequency? I am using now 50khz! (in Brazil they say: not trying to throw sand into your soup, BUT).

Fausto.




Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2009, 10:50:42 PM »
Fausto,

You can use almost ANY relay you want as long as the relays has a 5volt coil
and the coil current do not exceed 100mA. I use relays that can handle 5 amp
and has a normal open / normal closed function (3 wires). My main goal was to design
a unit that could swap batteries etc. That said, one optocoupler and a transistor
instead of the relay, and you have a higher speed switching unit. It all depends
on what you want do do. The relays themselves can also control bigger relays etc.

Groundloop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2009, 10:50:42 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2009, 10:39:42 PM »

Just to amplify what Groundloop has said. The opto/transistor
do have high bandwidth, the leds use a certain amount of power
when they are on and the output pins are insulated from one
another only by semiconductor insulation and they have some
semiconductor "on" resistance.

Relays use a certain amount of power only when they are
on, have very low bandwidth (even less at higher powers)
- this will require built in software delays, but the input and
the two output leads have 100% insulation from one another
and 0ohms when the outputs are connected.

There is form of latching relay that is turned on and off
by 50ms 5volt (or whatever) pulses. So that for very low
power operations and very low bandwidth operations, they
consume almost no power. So I think you can see that you
can have whatever low bandwidth controls that you need
with extremely low net dissipated power.

:S:MarkSCoffman
 

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #57 on: October 12, 2009, 04:00:10 AM »
Today I expended Groundloop's TS with one more opto and transistor (SW7) so that I implemented the "shortting" the battery programmaticaly.

It took me a little awhile because of the obvious protoboard "bad soldering of mine" thing but all figure out and it is running right now. Now I can finally rest and wait to see if indeed the battery charges and how much it will.


And @Groundloop,

I do see your point. Off course one can replace the relay with another opto/transistor combination. How could I have not thought about that?  :P

I really like the multi-function of your design. Great work!


@mscoffman,

thanks for the ideas and points. All taken.

Fausto.

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2009, 08:27:21 PM »
My experiment is going very well indeed. I am charging the battery with lots of problems but I am. In trying to understand why such a weird circuit that I showed before would charge the battery I started a little research and I think I found something from this forum driven by our friend Gotluc (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4807-no-current-polarity-flip-flop-pulse-cap-charge-circuit.html) that is presenting exactly the same behavior as mine except that I am using batteries instead of the caps only.

So, last night I changed my design a little bit to simulate what Gotluc is doing (which is basically switching the poles of the caps into other caps but never closing the loop) so to test if the battery and caps would indeed chage without closing the loop and I was surprised to see that indeed it does.

I have not read the whole thread from Gotluc but I can already say that indeed not closing the loop makes the caps charge which them I dump them in to the battery and that's is why my batteries are charging.

Fausto.

Offline guruji

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2009, 08:54:43 PM »
Plengo thanks for your experiments. Can you please post the write circuit to charge the source battery so that I can replicate?
Thanks

 

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