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Author Topic: Bedini SSG - self sustaining  (Read 134363 times)

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2009, 11:47:18 PM »
Thanks guruji for participating.

The schematics has been 2 pages before published. The problem you will face is the switching mechanism used. I have a circuit built by Groundloop with my own assembler language programming. I am only expanding on that original design and trying every "monkey science" possible.

Sorry for not being able to give you more. If you play with it you should see this strange behavior that I am seeing.

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2009, 11:47:18 PM »

Offline YeahRight

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2009, 12:57:34 PM »
delete by moderator.

@YeaRight,

please do not start a flame discussion here. Open another thread for your ideas and concerns, besides Bedini CLEARLY states the COP > 1 is NOT in his machines but in the process inside the batteries.

Fausto
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 06:29:02 PM by plengo »

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2009, 06:35:29 PM »
From: MarkCoffman

Hi!

On Sterling Allen’s Peswiki site, I saw the following quote from a Naysayer;

>I played with this kind of stuff [Bedini SGS] for three months a few years
>ago when I launched the Bedini SG open source project. I got quite
>excited several times, thinking I was seeing overunity, but whenever I
>waited long enough, and tested properly, the system always showed a
>net loss in power, as conventional science would predict. In other words,
>I could not prove with my system that some kind of external (free) energy
>was being harvested. I did see some interesting effects, but nothing
>practical.

On overunity.com [this thread] from user Plengo I saw the following; :)

>Updates: Last night I purchased... new lead acid batteries … Very small in
>size and ideal for this application. I charged them last night using my 6
>pole Bedini SSG. As a matter of fact, I charged all 6 batteries at once
>using my super 6 pole with no problems and no warming or damage to any
>of the batteries. What a technology!!!

Ok…Now, I do not see how both of the above statements can true. So I
would like to propose a very simple experiment to Plengo. This would find
overunity energy on the basis that; it takes no more energy from the real
Bedini SGS source battery to charge multiple charge batteries, then it does
to charge one. After all this device is supposedly gaining energy from the
much vaunted “radiant energy” source.

Proposed Experiment:

• So take six acid lead batteries (they don’t particularly need to be the
same capacity)

• Buy six Radio Shack DPDT 12Vdc double pole double throw relays and
power these from a boundary power supply.

 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062483

• Wire these relays to put a batteries in parallel with the “Source” side of
the real Bedini SGS when a relay is “On” and in parallel with “Charge” side
when the relay is “Off”. Very Simple.

• Use the microcontroller to turn on one battery at a time in round robin
fashion and go on to the next after N times ½ hour intervals. The N is
given as a variable at system start up time.

Note: For an N=8 (four hour) source intervals, a particular battery will be
able to recharge on the SGS for nearly 20 hours.

• 00#000 -> 000#00 -> 0000#0 -> 00000# -> #00000 ->0#0000 ->
00#000 ->...    ;       # - Source battery, 0 – Parallel charge battery

• Manually use a DVM to see if the charge battery bank voltage is going up
with time or if it is going down with time. If it is going up, then we have
probably seen overunity energy and we can complete the instrument. If it
is going down, then I will shut up and quit bugging this thread.  :)

{eoe}

If this works we can complete the instrument and then Plengo will be able
to see positively whether the experiments he conducts are actually
increasing the amount of excess energy, negatively decreasing the
amount, or not effecting the amount at all.

What do you think of this Plengo?


:S:MarkSCoffman
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 07:14:10 PM by mscoffman »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2009, 06:35:29 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2009, 07:08:11 PM »
delete by moderator.

@YeaRight,

please do not start a flame discussion here. Open another thread for your ideas and concerns, besides Bedini CLEARLY states the COP > 1 is NOT in his machines but in the process inside the batteries.

Fausto


I agree, although I don't like suppressing anyone.

One important point in users YeaRight previous post is "Why the motor
form of the SGS?" The Answer is: it is better to have energy generated
in the form of a "unit" that provides energy gain; that is
have some  energy-out = fixed-gain times energy-in (as a control signal);
then it is to have energy invested in a fixed form that can go out of control
all at once.

Think of a large tank of distilled petroleum and a lit cigarette,
or dissolving 5 pounds of pure plutonium into a plastic bucket of nitric acid
and 5 pounds into another bucket and then pouring them together.
Or accidentally running a tanker truck filled with butane into
expressway retaining wall at 70Mph...I think you get the picture.

---

YeaRight ask; "Why not use capacitors rather than batteries?";
Fausto said it; Where the actual gain is vested in
unkown structures in a Bedini machine although
I have suggested I think there are four places where
extra energy could be coming in. Battery chemistry would probably
play roles in these, although electrolytic capacitors (contains water)
may see these too. Other type of capacitors like oil filled or tantalum
should not see some of these.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2009, 07:22:54 PM »
@mscoffman,

interesting idea but I could not understand very well the logical distribution of the batteries in this scheme. Can you please describe it again? I am willing to carry that test. (sorry for removing your reply to Yeahright inappropriate post).

I use the term "front-end" equals the "driving" battery that runs the SSG and "back-end" the "charging" battery.

Now, I know for a fact by experience and from Bedini's own words that you CAN NOT run an SSG with the battery that was charged by the SSG because it is charged with a different kind of energy, so if you switch the batteries long enough the overall voltages WILL go down.

That's is why on the Bedini's forums at Yahoo we do the load test which is basically measuring how much energy goes into the "front-end" of the SSG (conventional energy cost) and how much energy you can TAKE OUT from the "charged" or "back-end" batteries using also a conventional load test (a lamp or resistor cross the batteries terminals).

We do not measure how much goes into the "back-end" battery.

This way one can compare the input total energy against the outputED energy FROM the battery. In versus Out.

Another thing that many fail to understand is that Bedini is not advocating his machines to be COP > 1, he is emphatically saying that the COP is IN the batteries.

Fausto.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2009, 07:22:54 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2009, 07:28:10 PM »

I agree, although I don't like suppressing anyone.

One important point in users YeaRight previous post is "Why the motor
form of the SGS?" The Answer is: it is better to have energy generated
in the form of a "unit" that provides energy gain; that is
have some  energy-out = fixed-gain times energy-in (as a control signal);
then it is to have energy invested in a fixed form that can go out of control
all at once.

Think of a large tank of distilled petroleum and a lit cigarette,
or dissolving 5 pounds of pure plutonium into a plastic bucket of nitric acid
and 5 pounds into another bucket and then pouring them together.
Or accidentally running a tanker truck filled with butane into
expressway retaining wall at 70Mph...I think you get the picture.

---

YeaRight ask; "Why not use capacitors rather than batteries?";
Fausto said it; Where the actual gain is vested in
unkown structures in a Bedini machine although
I have suggested I think there are four places where
extra energy could be coming in. Battery chemistry would probably
play roles in these, although electrolytic capacitors (contains water)
may see these too. Other type of capacitors like oil filled or tantalum
should not see some of these.

:S:MarkSCoffman

i have created a thread just for yeahright's question. hopefully, if they are not trolls, he along with others like solinear, etc. will discuss it there instead of disrupting plengo's fine work here.


Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2009, 09:12:18 PM »
@WilbyInebriated

thank you! I appreciate your help. I am just tired of reading through 200 pages of TPUs, Dr. Stifflers (I love his work) and  Mylow and so on to just get 10% of usefull stuff all the rest is non-sence flamming. So I am definitely removing ALL historical flaming outside of this threads intention with no mercy! Oh boy that makes me feel good!  ;D

@All,

some updates: Last night running more tests my board is cooked (the one that Groundloop sent me). Oh boy i love that board. It is impressively powerful. So, I am building a new protoboard with the exact same circuit plus a few more ports and if it works well I will make it into a copper board with replaceable transistors pins.

That also raises the questions of what I am doing wrong to burn the transistors and the simple answer is the way I am connecting the batteries and the caps. I am trying to understand and engineer why the batteries charge when flipping to the caps in this particular configuration of mine (number 4 or previous posts) where in some of the connections the battery is connecting to literally nothing (just the diode that was coming out from the SSG without the SSG).

I think that is one factor why the battery is charging plus what I think it is also the secret concerning the shorting of the battery momentarily. Studying Gotluc's forum that I also mention previously I can clearly see kind of how my batteries are charging without understanding why. I know some of the arguments presented there claims that the electrostatics and earth virtual grounds are the reason but I just dont buy that (and since I am not an EE I guess I can blindly believe in my experiments more than my lack of better theory).

I think my experiments are very similiar to what Gotluc is doing and since I am running this at 50khz I can see why my battery charges very well.

I really wished some people would try this and give more input about this phenomena and ways to improve on it and engineer it to scale up. Or it is just me????

Now, it is important to have a good visual feedback when things are "switching" because when the transistor fries one will not noticed but only via the battery stopping to charge which could take a day lost of tests.

Fausto

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2009, 09:12:18 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2009, 09:46:39 PM »
Fausto,

If you burn the switch transistors a lot, then try this add on.

The IRF510 should be a good choice in your setup. Can take
high voltage (100volt) and some 5,6Amp at best. But you can
use whatever N-Type HEXFET you have. Just make sure the
transistor can handle you voltages (including "spikes") and the
current you need when switching.

Groundloop.

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2009, 10:08:16 PM »
@Groundloop,

thanks. I will try that.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2009, 10:08:16 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2009, 05:24:58 PM »
@Groundloop,

I was thinking about having that design change you proposed to another level. I want to have an equivalent to a SPDP (single pole double throw) switch and my questions is: Would this design of mine work?

Fausto.

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2009, 06:07:02 PM »
In practice, what is the max frequency that this opto isolator  (4N33) can handle?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #70 on: October 15, 2009, 06:07:02 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2009, 10:48:20 PM »
Fausto,

I have never tried using two hexfets as in your drawing, so I guess that the only way
to find out is to try it.

MasterPlaster,

The minimum switch time for the 4N35 is 10uSec.

Groundloop.

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #72 on: October 17, 2009, 04:46:57 PM »
for lack or better knowledge and for simplicity here is my solution for the SPDP that I need. This works well since all the parameters of the  current design are not affected and it allows to continue using what I have with just two extra diodes.

Fausto.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2009, 07:05:08 PM »
Fausto wrote;

>Now, I know for a fact by experience and from Bedini's own words that
>you CAN NOT run an SSG with the battery that was charged by the SSG
>because it is charged with a different kind of energy, so if you switch the
>batteries long enough the overall voltages WILL go down.

Yeah, this is a real show stopper. It means that the Bedini Machine can not
use the whole energy that it stored in the back-end battery bank. There
may be ways of getting around some of this or maybe all of it.(delays,
shorting, etc), but that would require experimentation.

With other free energy devices, if the gain is about 3 times i.e. the output
= 3 or more times the input, then the device can support the inefficiency of
almost any power converter loss. But at a gain of three it is a too much to
expect from an unimproved original SGS.

---

>That's is why on the Bedini's forums at Yahoo we do the load test which is
>basically measuring how much energy goes into the "front-end" of the SSG
>(conventional energy cost) and how much energy you can TAKE OUT
>from the "charged" or "back-end" batteries using also a conventional load
>test (a lamp or resistor cross the batteries terminals).

Hey, I too am a member of the Yahoo Bedini forum. I really like they way
they approach the construction of the machine scientifically. And I respect
you for what you have previously indicated you have accomplished. But
well, I don’t buy the cold electricity or radiant energy theories. I don’t post
there because of my heretical beliefs and they do not approve of discussion
of heretical ideas to keep their discussions collegial. Which is Ok with me.

What my method is trying to do was *balance* the input and output energy
rather than trying to measure it with instrumentation and calculations. First
form a “perpetual motion machine” which does the balancing and then have
a microprocessor switch in a resistor that rapidly but shallowly discharges
the back-end battery bank. Note the discharge time and then calculate
energy = (vmax-vmin)*watt(at average volts)*amount-of-time then add
this to an ever increasing total watt-seconds figure and send this to the
host PC to be archived. Battery capacity would be the primary goal target
value, then ten times battery capacity, then hundred times it,…and so on.

I now kind of wonder though about the value of their “ten-poler” machine.
Can it really be that much different then their one-poler besides its much
lower driving impedance? It seems like they are saying; “Well here is the
truth, but as usual we think that the magic comes back when you do it at a
higher power” (as well as much more expensive) approach.

---

>We do not measure how much goes into the "back-end" battery.
>This way one can compare the input total energy against the
>outputED energy FROM the battery. In versus Out.

>Another thing that many fail to understand is that Bedini is not advocating
>his machines to be COP > 1, he is emphatically saying that the COP is IN
>the batteries.

I agree with all the above, but go somewhat further. Its difficult to get IN
exactly equal to OUT because of instrumentation errors if COP=1.

---

>interesting idea but I could not understand very well the logical distribution
>of the batteries in this scheme. Can you please describe it again? I am
>willing to carry that test. I use the term "front-end" equals the "driving"
battery that runs the SSG and "back-end" >the "charging" battery.

Hopefully you can see that the physical interconnection could be done with
one *DPDT* relay per battery for each of six batteries. To connect any
battery to a front-end SGS buss vs. the SGS back-end buss without
interference between the two busses. Then the microcontroller rule would
keep only one battery on the front-end and the rest of the others would be
in parallel back-end bank.

Logically; If the batteries charged two different ways; Some charge would
then be due to the conventional power P=E*I of the signal and some charge
would be the batteries recharging themselves due to “data” on the signal
(pulses etc.). The first power signal would spread out among batteries
behaving according to standard COE, but the second form would be
*multiplied* by the number of back-end batteries in parallel. As
representative of the total energy available to the system.

---

>Fausto.


Thanks Fausto;

---

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline plengo

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Re: Bedini SSG - self sustaining
« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2009, 08:12:46 PM »
@mscoffman

Oh I see now. One bus on the front-end and one bus on the back-end. Than the microcontroller will  switch the relays, as one may program, to the front and back-end so that a number of batteries would be associated with the front-end and other batteries to the back-end. One could program to always have, for example, one battery only on the front and all the other 5 batteries on the back receiving the charge. Than later switch front-end battery back to the back-end and choose another back-end battery to now go to the front-end and do that in a round-robbing fashion.

Very good. I will try that. I really like the idea and believe it or not I NEVER had done really parallel batteries on the back-end and performed the load/charge test that the Bedini forum requires us to do. Sometimes we are so smart but sometimes we are soooo dumb.  ;D

@All,

some udpates: my board is still not functioning (the one Groundloop sent me) but I am working on a new version with more switches (about 14 I think) so that I can do more experiments. It will also use PIC16F690 because I can real-time debug it using PicKit2 Express Debugger straight from the MPLAB IDE.

Groundloop is sending me his latest designed board with relays (wonderful).

And to complete the learning process, I am also en devouring myself into making a pc cooper board using my own design by myself at home (oh boy, I love the chemicals smells).

Fausto.

 

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